Habitat

[trakkaton]

A torus may be a habitat. But a starship? Where's the light coming from that makes those plants green?

[fragomatik]

@trakkaton

At about 20s in - see that bright-white tube? It's a "sun-tube", ie. an artificial light source. Now, before you berate me for using such a cop-out solution, I didn't invent the idea. Clarke uses it in "Rendezvous With Rama", Bear uses it in "Eon" & virtually every SF author writing about space colonies has used some form of sun-tube, whether it is High Intensity Discharge lighting such as that used for Earth hydroponics, or whether it is fusion trapped within a magnetic "bottle".

[trakkaton]

@fragomatik

The question is: Where is that huge amount of constant energy coming from, just in the middle of two stars?

[fragomatik]

@trakkaton

Nuclear fusion. It's a Bussard Ramjet - just like it says in the text on the video itself.

It scoops up interstellar hydrogen using magnetic fields and then "compresses" it until it fuses. That's what produces the thrust and the energy for other stuff. If you're really interested, just do a wiki search on "Bussard ramjet". Invented by physicist Robert W Bussard in 1960. Great idea, but has its problems, too...

[Zurround100]

@trakkaton this whole "generation ship" thing will never happen. But it is a great staple for sci fi. My favorite type of story for generation ships is when the future descendants are not even aware that they are on a ship.

[fragomatik]

@Zurround100 said "this...'generation ship' thing will never happen"

Chances are that a gen ship would be overtaken mid-voyage by later, more advanced ships, so you're probably right, *BUT* never say never ;)

For example, Nasa's 100-Year Project is a serious attempt to quantify & define how we'd undertake such a monumental voyage.

@Zurround100 said "the future descendants are not even aware that they are on a ship."

Sure! Heinlein's "Orphans Of The Sky" comes to mind.

[aFemale1]

ok ok.. BUT how do you put this thing in space , Construct it ?

[fragomatik]

@aFemale1

Yep. Building it in space is the only way, as it would be very impractical & expensive to launch everything from Earth. Such a humongous project would require a space-based economy and society to be well-established before attempting it. Perhaps, one day...

[aFemale1]

@fragomatik Oh thank you..

[bentotheclarke]

awsome sause

[HolyReaperX01]

reminds me of halo

[Trainmaster189]

What's the name of this song?

[fragomatik]

@Trainmaster189

Its called Synergy Orbital. Its one of the "free" tracks that comes with Cyberlink Powerdirector video editor. Its not very good, but I'm not good at music - and I have to use something that's not copyright protected otherwise youTube would delete the video...

[crassirus]

The music was like that from a bad corproate powerpoint. I'd realyl rec ommend using(and crediting) something by Steve Roach, some of the best space ambience in existence IMHO.

Going to have to look up bussard ramjets now.

[fragomatik]

@crassirus No one uses crappy corporate music because they *want* to...

Steve Roach, eh? Is it free? Is it Public Domain or Creative Commons? Can I modify it, shorten it or lengthen it to fit my video? I bet the answer to these questions is "No".

If I was going to use protected music, I'd go for something like Chemical Bros, or Brian Eno, or something...

Can you write music? Why don't *you* write me some music and I'll credit you?

[DandAinTac]

I believe the only way mankind will really accomplish interstellar travel will be through low-speed world ships filled with thousands of people--most likely as an evacuation, centuries in the future. It will never be like Star Trek--with a ship zipping around at Warp 5, reaching the next planet just in time for next week's episode. It will be slow, taking generations, and will be a one-way trip. Only a large, highly educated society free of religious and ideological dogma will be able to do it.

[HolyReaperX01]

space is tangible and scientists are already discovering equations that support the idea of warping space around a ship to create a warp drive

[Blondets1]

@DandAinTac Nlot if we can harness the most powerful thermal nuclear device we have....

[Blondets1]

@DandAinTac The Sun. There is so much radiation and plasmas coming from it in a conical arrays and concentrate it to a fine beam we can use that to thermally propel the space craft to 102 of a percent of the speed of light. Though i agree with you in that Warp travel may not be in the works for a long time yet. But if we can get the sub-light ships to go fast enough it is conceivable to reach the 10 nearest stars in a reasonable time frame.

[salex2500]

@Blondets1 actually if your speed is close enough to light speed, and I mean *really* close, the passengers would find any distance very reasonable.

[b257]

I like the design, *sigh* if only it were reality though, I would be willing to be passenger on a ship like that.

[Treldman]

absolutely

[fr4nbl]

The spacecraft rotating habitats must wear a second ring with the same mass rotating in the opposite direction. Only then would cancel the angular momentum. Otherwise be very difficult to maneuver in space, because turning the ship would be a motion of precession.

[fragomatik]

That is a very good point, fr4bnl!

Yes, I read about this issue in during my research. From what I can remember, the article said that the colony axis will tend to rotate in the opposite direction. If maneuvering needs are only small (ie not very often & not very long) then it shouldn't be a problem. This "generation ship" is meant to coast for most of the journey, except at the start & end, so not much attitude adjustment is needed.

But, hey! I'm not an expert, or a rocket scientist :)

[fr4nbl]

I'm not an expert, just a physics student. I'm also a scifi fan. I would like the spaceships in the cinema were at the level of your design. I don't understand because today spacecraft designs are so bad in movies. I only except Kubrick 2001, 30 years before digital effects!. Greetings from Spain.

[fragomatik]

Thanks for the interesting comments! I'm always glad to read comments from students of science! My profession is IT, but I have always loved space-science and sci-fi. I agree with your observation that movies hardly ever get it right. It is a shame because with today's digital effects they could really show some fantastic designs.

If you really like hard SF then you must read some of Larry Niven's books, especially "Protector" and "The World Of Ptaavs". Classic!

Greetings from Australia!

[DandAinTac]

@fr4nbl I think this is because the movers and shakers in our society, including movie producers, don't really take it seriously--they regard it as pure fantasy. Therefore they feel unencumbered by the laws of physics. Since special effects and Hollywood movies stars are so expensive, thoughtful story-telling gets tossed over the side. So it is fair to say that sci fi movies are mainly old recycled stories revamped with digital effects designed mainly to create a roller coaster-like effect.

[SpocksLibido]

I have a question for you, fr4nbl. I've read criticisms of the proposed O'Neill space station cylinder which state that having too much weight (for example, the majority of the station's colonists) clustered at one end of the cylinder would cause it to begin wobbling, like a top-loading washing machine that spins out of balance when the wet laundry inside clumps together in one place. Could this be corrected by mounting gyroscopes at both ends of the cylinder? How many gyroscopes? How big?

[fr4nbl]

Well, I'm not an engineer. I can't answer your question about how many gyroscopes. But don't think that was a problem in the case of a space station. It could correct guidance at important moments, like the arrival of a ship. It would be a problem for a ship because it has to be continually changing its trajectory (and wasting fuel).

Greetings from Galicia.

Excuse my English.

[legendhunter47]

@fr4nbl should be easy to move around in zero gravity, regardless of the extreme weight of the habitat

[railadvocate]

Great ! Should we maybe start out with something a little smaller though. Something like what Dr. Von Braun suggested...for local planet and asteroid work/research. (?) Similar to the scale of the one depicted in the movie "2001 Space Odyssey." But large enough that station occupants don't get rotation sickness. I'm sure there are a number of ideas that could be looked into for radiation blocking, etc. As for solar "wind"...I don't know..

[fragomatik]

There would be at least a few minutes' warning of any severe solar activity. Crew would have time to reach shielded emergency "bolt-holes", thus riding out the crisis in relative safety. This works fine in a small station, but larger habitats need serious shielding. Heck, if getting to orbit becomes cheap enough & if we ever get a lunar colony, it may be best to shield any station of any size with a metre or two of lunar rock. Have a read of the info on my other vid HABITAT2 for links & data.

[ATiredDogsMouth]

It looks awesome! Wouldnt you fall over when it is accelerating though? Id put the 'floor' perpendicular to the direction of travel so you could accelerate half way there, flip the ship and then deccelerate again. Is coreolis a problem at this scale also?

[fragomatik]

Thanks for the comment, and the perceptive questions :)

Coriolis effects are going to be very obvious at this scale, but not much of a problem.

Since the acceleration is supposed to be very low - probably low single digit percentage of G - then it won't cause many gross effects, but large bodies of water would need to be "banked" to prevent sloshing.

To be honest, the whole Bussard Ramjet concept is very speculative. It may be better to use low-mass-high-speed propulsion such as ion-drive.

[ATiredDogsMouth]

Ah I see.

I imagine these ships will be largely nanofacture diamond so wont weigh that much so slow steady ion drives or sails, and clever use of gravity wells and chaotic control would be sufficient.

It'd be awesome to see one standing on a big fusion flame though!!

[fragomatik]

Exactly! Carbon nano-tubes or some other similar super-strong material is necessary to resist the tendency for the habitat to fly apart from rotational forces. The original Stanford design was about 1km diameter & intended to rotate at about 1 RPM to provide 1G. Most conventional materials of normal mass would not stand those stresses. Still, it may be feasible to have a lower rate of rotation, thereby reducing stress, but still providing a healthy "g-force".

[fragomatik]

If we had access to reliable fusion drives, we would probably not even bother rotating the habitat. We'd design it to provide gravity via constant acceleration! At 1g acceleration, the ship would go relativistic within 6 months. Time dilation effects would enable trips to the nearest stars within a human lifetime. Now THAT is an adventure! :)

[ATiredDogsMouth]

OOOOO BABY! In some of Stephen Baxters books his ships use GUT drives, from Grand Unified Theory, wherein matter is (somehow; matter lasers maybe?) compressed to just-post-Big Bang conditions, and then allowed to expand. As the superforce decays into the 4 we know and love, it undergoes Expansion and is spat out the back.

Would a fusion steam rocket even be that hard to build, assuming, and I do, that we can get fusion itself licked?

[fragomatik]

Baxter is good! The simplest fusion drive concept involves using water as reaction mass - as you say - steam! Well, "steam" is probably not the right word - it would be plasma at those energy levels! Assuming that you could contain and control the fusion reaction via some type of exotic "field" or magnetic bottle type thing, then everything else is "just engineering" - relatively straightforward. Controlled fusion is like the holy grail of conventional physics. It would solve so many problems!

[DereenigneEsrever]

human life span is very unlikely to stay limited to 120 years for very much longer. The main challenge is political; we need for example 300,000 1MT nuclear bombs to get to 3.3% light speed but the world only has 26000, so we need to get going on making the other 274000 bombs as soon as we find away to assure people that the rate of stellar colonization will meet or exceed that of the occassional accidental/unauthorized self inihilation &/or that Life without frontiers isn't life.

[fragomatik]

@DereenigneEsrever - that's the interesting thing. As human lifespan increases, the demand for limited resources becomes greater. That's a motivation right there! Once we can get cheap access to orbit , big business will see the profit to be made. The new frontier is as crucial for our mental well-being as it is for our material needs. We need to be able to explore and expand our horizons - the profit factor is really just icing on the cake :)

[DereenigneEsrever]

The freemarket spirit and the tech advances that come before this takes off, are the reason there won't be any overcrowding to pressure us into space -it will only be the love of new fronteers. Sterilization will be perfectly reversible as harmless as a pill so not abusive to do it at infancy. No birth will be unplanned nor eternally young under any time pressure, but with no excuses everyone will be fully responsible for cost of edu/med/potential jail/welfare cost of kids or wait till they can

[MisticWays]

What about the glass? Wouldn't it break if some rocks from space hit it or collide? [Asteroids]

[fragomatik]

No. It isn't just a single piece of "glass". It is composed of many glass "tiles". Even today there are composite assemblies using self-repairing gel layers to block minor leaks. Believe it or not the biggest danger is radiation, not asteroids. The Stanford group found that glass tiles with a chevron-shaped cross-section provide enormous strength and also deflect cosmic particles very effectively. Don't forget, I didn't invent this concept. It was designed by Stanford University in the 70s.

[321flyer]

I saw "Habitat 2" and was astonished at the possibility that such a structure could be built. It would be hundreds or indeed thousands of miles across. How could such a structure ever be created and think of the cost.  Also what about the risk of it colliding with an asteroid or comet or other such objects in the deepness of space, those windows look pretty exposed and could they withstand such an impact , would they break sucking everyone out into space? what would they be made of?

[fragomatik]

Habitat2 is "only" about 3km diameter. Go to the links mentioned in the video info. In Heppenheimer's book there is a section on how to construct the windows using chevron shaped aluminium reinforced glass panels. Calculations are given which indicate that minor "pebble" strikes are to be expected and can be handled easily. Larger objects are statistically much rarer. In those cases the gravity-tug methods (currently being studied and developed by NASA) can be used to deflect them.

[321flyer]

What happens when the Generation ship leaves the solar system and no longer has the sun to power it . Those on board would surely die and it would just float through space. Your video is superb but surely the ship would have to be bigger than just 3km in diameter. Would the ship be light years from earth when it reached a habitable world? perhaps it would have to travel to another galaxy to find such a world. How long would that take?

[fragomatik]

This model uses super-bright light sources, just like hydroponics.  Not hard if you have enough energy. The ship size is determined by population. The smallest number of people required to avoid inbreeding is 300 male & female. This colony provides for thousands of people. 3km diam is plenty for agriculture & living space and future growth. Average of 12 light years to the nearest suitable star. At 3% light-speed it would take about 500 years, or about 20 generations.

[321flyer]

Just how big would this ship have to be, the size of a country and how do u know that it will ever reach its destination.. for all we know it could just end up travelling through space for all eternity.

[fragomatik]

Form follows function. It needs to be big to function properly, eg. the larger the rotating object, the more "natural" the artificial gravity feels.

Ambitious colonisation projects are inherently risky, even more so when you're dealing with multi-generation issues (genetic drift, social collapse, entropy, etc)

There are many examples of similar undertakings in our history, some were incredibly successful, eg, the colonisation of Australia & India. Others failed. Will that stop us trying? No.

[fragomatik]

@321: If you're really interested in the subject, have a look at my other video Habitat-2. The video info on that clip has many references and links that are pertinent to the basic engineering and life-support considerations for such mega-structures.

[SailorBarsoom]

This would be the way to do the generation ship idea. Of course, this would make a pretty good multi-generation sun-orbiter to (minus the Bussard ramjet and add some docking ports).

I love videos of these sorts of things. I'm off to look at your new one.

[dennisdahl3]

No terrorists allowed i guess.

[fragomatik]

@dennis: It does seem a bit utopian I suppose. It's interesting to see how others have envisaged the problems with isolated, hand-picked micro-cultures, which is what a gen ship really is: a colony on the move!

Heinlein speculated that an hierarchy based on military or naval lines was the practical way to control a multi-generation star-faring population. There is precedent in our own history where past imperial colonies were established using convict populations governed by the Royal Navy.

[dennisdahl3]

Religion could work. The Baha'is have the best chance.

[fragomatik]

Yes, the Baha'i are very inclusive and moderate. Generally, every successive generation tends to "rebel" against the establishment, which is a natural and healthy expression of social awareness. The trouble with homogenous cultures of this nature (ie. isolated colonies) is that there is no "outside alternative". If the young believe that they have no latitude to choose the way they live their lives then that rebellion can be expressed in negative ways. A healthy society *must* allow for that.

[thregar]

really like this - top work! :)

[fragomatik]

Thankyou! More new video on this subject coming soon...

[TheMarkOfTheBeast1]

When? I check your account every fortnight or so to see if you've made a new video... have been doing so since I saw this.

[fragomatik]

@MarkOfBeast: Just doing the final video encoding now...1 or 2 days...3 days tops!

...I promise ; )

[TheMarkOfTheBeast1]

Excellent :-)

[fragomatik]

@TheMarkOfTheBeast1: It's up and live...enjoy!

[Tribersman]

You are very humble to say "not really realistic", multigeneration ship and brussard ramjet already rank into Hard-SF for most (common) people.

Since you won't reach 1G with this type of engine, you don't need to incline much the habitat section,it's already good you tough about the inclination at all.

The only unrealistic things I see is the open window since you won't use the light from a nearby star.

[fragomatik]

Thanks for the kind and intelligent comments Tribersman! During my research I came across many reasons why windows are a bad idea: radiation risk, poor energy efficiency, too expensive to engineer and maintain, structural weakness. So, to reduce radiation exposure, I made the side walls higher (less window). And with enough cheap energy, the expense is acceptable. But the best reason to have a window is being able to see the universe outside. The psychological effect would be positive!

[Tribersman]

The things is that ... even if it's hard to see the scale it will turn since you can't have a 1G acceleration

And if it turn as fast than on the animation I would be quickly bored, if not sick to see half of he sky rotate.

(but in the case it's inhabitant forget it's a ship i would love to see what religious genesis they come with ^^ )

Ha ... this type of story is rare and only "Last Exile" did it (in animation of course) at my knowledge.

[fragomatik]

Hi again Tribersman! You should read "Orphans of The Sky" by Robert Heinlein (1963). In that novel, the travellers are in a cylindrical generation ship, but civilisation has collapsed & they have forgotten they are on an artefact. Most systems are automatic, but slowly failing. Due to radiation on the "inner levels" there have been mutations ("muties"). The muties and the normals are at war. Each side has their own religious beliefs about their role in the "world". Sound interesting?

[fragomatik]

....YouTube comments are no good for links, so I will send you are message with a couple of links that you might find of interest :)

[caprinecapers]

Oh , yes, and if somebody could do the math on my last question I'd be really interested. There is a Wiki atricle on the Bussard ramjet, too. I am assuming here that a relativistic ship would necessarily be smaller than a generation ship.

[fragomatik]

I'll leave that to someone else, math is definitely not my strong point :[

[caprinecapers]

Thanks for replying so fast. The reason I ask is that the Bussard ramjet concept has been critisised on the grounds that it would not be capable of relativistic speeds as the thrust/drag ratio would be too low,but it WOULD be capable of perhaps a few percent of c, ideal for a massive generation ship. A generation ship would have to be massive because of the longer trip time, and I wonder if accelerating such a large mass to even a small fraction of c is just as difficult as relativistic travel?

[fragomatik]

Yep, I was aware of the recent criticisms. Unfortunately, they makes sense. Disappointing to say the least :(

I remember reading somewhere that constant acceleration at 1G would get you to .99% c in about 6 months.

Even at only a few percent G acceleration, you'd eventually go relativistic, notwithstanding the limitations already mentioned (thrust/drag ratio, turnaround time, etc).

So maybe not warp-drive, but certainly "viable" for a generation ship.

[alien8ted]

My research shows that with a constant 1G acceleration maintained for one Earth year, a ship would reach 72% lightspeed, with 46 weeks having elapsed on the ship. After 2 earth years the ship would reach 90% c, with 1.5 years having passed on the ship. At 90% c (dilation = 2.29) they could coast 10 light years in 11 earth years, but only 5 years passes for the astronauts, so in terms of journey time it's like they travelled at twice lightspeed.

[fragomatik]

Thanks for setting me straight on that :) I will never trust my (ageing) memory again :]

[alien8ted]

You were not that far out, as a 1G acceleration for 6 weeks would get you to 10% lightspeed. As it is, that's very likely the fastest speed we could achieve, so your generation ship is still the best option open to star travel. It's a very good model, BTW. I'm working on my own idea for a space habitat using rotation to create gravity and modelling it in Bryce. Here's a brilliant video on youtube with a beautiful visualisation of the Rama cylinder.

watch?v=UiO8CgGiWPM

[fragomatik]

Cheers for that! Yes, I'm familiar with that exact Rama video - I added it to my favourites about a year ago :) Obviously, great minds think alike ha ha!

I would be very interested in seeing your habitat vid when its done.

[caprinecapers]

I notice yuo're using a Bussard ramjet. What do you envisage the maximum speed to be because if it is capable of relativistic speeds you wouln't need the generation ship concept.......

[fragomatik]

I'm no rocket scientist, but the basic premise is that interstellar hydrogen is captured using magnetic fields, which direct the particles to a "pinch" in the field where the hydrogen particles are compressed together to generate a rudimentary fusion reaction. I imagine the efficiency would be pretty low. Maybe around a few % c? Slow acceleration/deceleration coz its such a massive payload. Not exactly relativistic but probably would get time dilation effects :]

[scott93257]

Totally cool....Love it. 5/5... Let me ask you this...Do you think it would be possible to build a ship the size of Rama if it were to be built in space?

[fragomatik]

Definitely! You could _only_ build a structure like that in space. There's too much energy required to launch that much mass into Earth orbit. Even if it were split over hundreds of thousands of shuttle launches, it would cost way more than collecting the resources from the La Grange points, or the moon.

[scott93257]

That would be so cool. to be able to build something like that,...Imagine the undertaking of such a large scale project...

[fragomatik]

The way I see it, we have little choice in the long run. We _must_ establish space-based industry for the survival of the species. It's a _massive_ undertaking. We need space-elevators, orbital / L5 habitats, power satellites, and lunar mining operations. Once that infrastructure is established, then normal capitalist forces would accelerate the development of permanent factories/settlements, offering hi-tech, space-made products and cheap solar-derived energy. With luck and good engineering :)

[karelmeerbach]

youknow if they had kept all the large spent fuel tanks up in orbit they could've joinedthem with an elbow.flexible joint and mad aspacestation from that...like as in 2001movie

[rebouel]

Wow, clear back in '80 I used to do illustrations of similar models for the L5 newsletter for the University of Cincinnati chapter. I was so hyped about it then and still am.

[TheMarkOfTheBeast1]

We may just need this for the Dec. 31st 2012, when the world ends. Just like it ended in 2000.

[Ryumaru1]

I love that idea of a multi generation ship... but i believe there could live more people than 10000... i saw entire cities! that thing must be huge.

But one Question remains: from where to get light, if you go away from our solar system?

[fragomatik]

Hi again Ryu :)

The light in this "model" is provided through an "artificial sun" (the bright white circular component up near the "roof"). I got that idea from a couple of articles that mention using super-bright light sources as substitute sunlight, just like in hydroponics. The population 10,000 is a starting figure. That figure would increase over time, so there is plenty of "room to grow" over centuries...

[FreesWorld]

Hi, I'm an old L5'er. Enjoyed it much. I'm not doing much these days in space development, but I do put my stories up for free. If you'r interested try williamseiglerdotcom. Thanks.

[fragomatik]

Hi Will, thanks for stopping by. Glad u enjoyed the vid. Interesting lifestyle you have there :) I wish I could make more time for bush-walking (ie hiking in Australianese), but a young family & the daily office grind means we can usually only get out every couple of months, or so...oh well.

[FreesWorld]

Hi fragomatik,

I got out to Australia once in 1993 on my way to Antarctica for a mag. I was reading Nivin back in the '60's. Good work. I'll have to find Ringworld.

Back then we were hell bent for leather to colonize the solar system or so some of us thought. We were betrayed by the politicians. That's why I got involved in L5.

Please visit my website and let me know what you think. Thanks.

[dexterbeatz]

cool, i think this is not far away from reality.....

5/5

[sehtdragon]

Absolutely, utterly wonderful! Perfectly designed and so artistically rendered. Puts my own humble effort in its proper place...

Nice to know though that another GK O'Neill style ship made its way onto YouTube :)

[fragomatik]

@Sehtdragon: That's high praise from a fellow animator - thank you! Its cool to see so many people getting into the idea of space-habitats.

Still, there's plenty of potential converts out there, and sometimes all it takes is the right image or video clip to help them get their heads around the concept.

[Blazar11]

Really Good!

5/5

[fragomatik]

:) thx

[haydenjc3]

that looks pretty awsome and we will probally be living in ships like that in the future as we are destroying this planet, ah well we might find another planet like earth.

[fragomatik]

Thanks Haydenjc3. As a species, we need room to expand & resources to exploit.

As we slowly move to a space-based economy (200 yrs? 500 yrs? 1000 yrs?) more and more people will be living & working in space.

Learning to construct self-sustaining habitats and colonies may also help us undo the damage we have done to the Earth.

All we gotta do to make this vision a reality is survive long enough to make it happen :)

[zian0223]

lol nice generation ship, kinda reminds me of halo though, but still great ship

[fragomatik]

My idea is based on the Stanford Torus (google it) which in turn owes a lot to GK O'Neil. But there were lots of people before that: Heinlein in 1941 & Van Vogt in 1944 came up with generation ships. Larry Niven's "Ringworld" in 1971, Bob Shaw's "Orbitsville" in 1974 (based on Freeman Dyson's concept).

Halo is a johnny-come-lately that borrowed heavily (stole?) the ideas from the greats above, but no credit was given to them from Micro$oft...are we surprised? Halo is NOT an original concept.

[LennyTheLeper]

Now THAT is a generation ship! Honestly mate, that's awesome and it seems like you did your research on this.

I really love the whole concept of a generation star ship. If it happens in our lifetime, I'd volunteer to go on one. Sure, I'd never see Earth again, and never actually reach the destination, but my descendants eventually would, and I'd have played a part in getting there at least.

Have you read ''Orphans of the Sky"?

[fragomatik]

@lenny: glad u enjoyed! Yes, I'm a great fan of the "classics". Heinlien & Van Vogt both wrote novels about generation ships. At this current stage in human development, the only feasible way to colonise deep-space is via generation ship. Bussard ramjets have been getting a lot of bad press lately. It seems the density of interstellar hydrogen would cause a lot of friction/radiation. It's probably not possible to go "relativistic" with that sort of system...oh well, back to the drawing board :)

[LennyTheLeper]

Although I agree that a generation ship is the only feasable way at the moment, it has been said that if an interstellar ship/probe can't reach the nearest star within a lifetime, then it isn't worth sending and the money should be used to design a better propulsion system instead

There is also the issue of technological advance; for example, a generation ship that's been travelling for 200 years could eventually be passed by a much faster spacecraft with better propulsion.

[fragomatik]

Agreed! If it is actually possible to *develop* a better drive, then that's the way to go. It depends on motivation & situation. If humanity were under threat of extinction (asteroid strike, etc)then waiting to develop advanced tech may be impractical, ie, it may be quicker to build a gen ship, than to develop a FTL drive.

Tech advances are virtually certain, within long time-frames. In reality, humans, would probably try to achieve both, seeing which one works out best in the long run.

[Erithianopius]

In the case of an asteroid impact, if it were possible by that time to build even one generation ship, then it would be possible to use the propulsion system to simply move the asteroid out of the collision course with Earth and save the planet, instead of having to leave.

[austpom333]

i think ide get dizzy in that

[fragomatik]

If the rotating structure is large enough, your inner-ear wouldn't notice, so you wouldn't get dizzy. Don't forget the Earth also rotates :)

[SailorBarsoom]

Too cool. I've been waiting for somebody to do a torus. I've read bad things recently about Bussard's ramjet, but I don't know how much stock to put in that.

Keep making vids, please.

[fragomatik]

SailorBarsoom, thanks for the encouragement! There's a couple of new videos in the pipeline, but just no time at the moment :(

I'm interested in anything to do with Bussard ramjets. Where did you hear about the bad things regarding them? Do you have a link? I've always thought that radiation would be a big issue. I've tried to show that with the large shield at rear to block radiation from the nuclear drive. And field-generator grids at the front to deflect debris and funnel the hydrogen.

[SailorBarsoom]

@fragomatik

Sorry I haven't answered this. The thing I read just stated that it was a bad idea, something about getting more energy from the body heat of the colonists. Didn't say how or why or where the author got it, just stated it as if it were settled. This sort of thing always makes me suspicious.

[ruiforuifo]

Great video!!

[fragomatik]

Many thanks! Glad you enjoyed!

[worldoperator]

my dream.. cool vid. you ever read ringworld by larry nevin? same concept but around a star..

[fragomatik]

Ringworld? Of course! Have a look at my other vids on here...I'm a big fan of Niven.

[vanstar]

The science is valid. How many generations from now?

[fragomatik]

A long, LONG, L-O-N-G time - maybe never... but you never know, maybe 2 or 3 hundred years from now...?

[321flyer]

How Long would it take to build?

My guess is 100 years.

[fragomatik]

Well, to build the original Stanford Torus design, the working group estimated around 5 years from beginning to end. This is a bigger structure, so it would take longer...maybe 10 years?