Steely Dan Live 1996 at Manassas 20/23: Kid Charlemagne

[BoogieEngineer]

With all due respect Wayne is wrong for this show

[whitestarline1000]

drew zingg the GREATEST



[AldofromBordeaux]

Drew Zingg Was The Real Man

[sabrinaplease]

where the hell is Drew Zingg-saw him a bunch of years ago and he's great

[TinmanDanimal]

Too many notes. Guys like Larry Carlton and Robben Ford get the importance of omitted notes. Great stuff though!

[didyouseethatlight]

Drew Zingg!!!! YES!!!! Finally!! Some recognition! He WAS the man for the job. I saw him in St. Louis with the Dan and he was spot on.

[DukeMinusDaGroove]

Is there gas in the car?....IS THERE GAS IN THE CAR???

[girl920]

What is the guitar soloist playing? Did he read the set list wrong? He's obviously a very talented dude and I'm all for jazz improvasation, but this sounds like he didn't know what song they were on!

[beckmondo99]

The Krantz guitar playing throughout, especially the solos are fabulously crafted and so right on. He's so fast, what may seem to some like a blurred version which is Royally out of touch with their vinyl, is probably slo-mo for him. His style is as original and unique as Metheny, though not as predictable. I get excited with the guitarist's interpretations, and dig the different arrangements as long as the notes are there. ..

[Derrick31462]

@beckmondo99 Well stated.

[jack0snap]

@beckmondo99 Glad you step up to say these words, I feel the same, like xpaddy01 your both with me and lots of listeners who CRAVE hearing these songs again and again with fresh artists. Fagen and Becker arrangements are always ahead of the curve. It is very sweet to hear somebody as talented as Wayne Krantz join in. He's far out there, and yeah I hear his notes too.

[xpaddy01]

Eveyone is entitled to their own opinion regarding Mr. Krantz's inclusion on this tour. Personally I think he's brilliant on it, the tone notwithstanding. I love the studio albums and the guitarists who played on them, but why should the guitar have to ape the album solo when all the other jazzers get to do their thing in this SD version of jazz, which is about improvisation? And, if I recall, Donald Fagen has used Krantz on his albums so I don't think he wasn't asked back.

[biostunes]

wayne krantz ruins the whole tune with that inappropriate solo

[777popop]

散々話題になってるがウェイン・クランツのギターが酷すぎて名曲­が台無し・・・

オリジナルを無視して好きに弾きたいなら

音楽的にも技術的にももっと精進しろよと言いたい

つかそんな才能ないなら大人しくカールトンをコピってくれ

[MrTrueBlend]

That guitar solo seemed a bit misplaced for Dan's sound...IDK, just could be my own taste...

[Drewzker]

I don't care a whole lot for wayne's solo & tone on this one either. He plays better on some of the other tunes. In terms of his overall style and appropriateness for SD, I'm sure Fagen knew what he was getting, and had him play on his studio album as well. If you want your lead to take the solos in a certain direction, that needs to be ironed out during rehearsals...

[paulo101]

I'm Krantz's biggest fan, but I understand why SD didn't ask him back after this tour...

[lvanhalen]

Wayne is awesome, no doubt there were alot of studio musicians in the past who were passed over because they didnt fit the Dan's bill in the past and future

[zeusody2000]

drew is the man for these kind of works but i don't know why he is disappeared!

[matthewosburn]

I too love Jon Herrington, Drew Zingg, and LC, but Wayne plays different all the time. that's what makes him such a special musician. are there any hard core-enough fans on here to down load the Olympia, WA show and listen to this song? you'll see what i mean. krantz's solo is out of this world and not anything close to this.

[mrstrat222]

besides Larry, Drew Zingg shits all over Wayne and Jon- both great guitarist-they sounded the best with Drew Zingg!!!

[CaptainJazz92]

Jon Herington hands down kills krantz on this song

[enfetish]

I have commented on my love of Wayne's playing on the other Manassas vids but can I throw up a contender for the next Dan tour - Jimmy Herring!!! Just listen to his version of The Fez on the Jeff Richman Dan tribute album - Larry would be proud!!!

[cufa33]

great solo¡¡ greay guitar palyer¡¡

[meta7for]

So what's the problem with WK's licks? Sounds like your basic Venusian funk blues to me. 3 cheers!

[anchovyangel]

It is not hard to get. Wayne stated in an interview "I'm a grown man why would I want to sound like another grown man" He is very firm in not playing any solo even near the outline of the original. He makes it his own and takes it to a whole another level. He is by far the hotest guitarist the Dan ever toured with.

Fagen used him on his solo albums he thinks so highly of his playing. Check out his solo stuff he is amazing. He plays out in NYC clubs quite a bit. You won't be dissapointed.

[SaxyDan54]

angel,

I checked his out...he is a great guitarist, no doubt!

Altho, I prefer John Herrington for the Dan, Wayne is pretty amazing! And I agree with his philosophy...unfortunately, the fans wanna hear what the fans wanna hear.

[dermo65]

I don't "get" Krantz at all ....a lot of my "pro" muso buddies (who are far better players than I) swear by him ...I dunno, to me it's too "widdly-widdly" ...lots of modal shit goin' on there, but not really contributing to the essence of the song ...... I forsee a barrage of condemnation ensuing from my anti-Krantz stance (no, the rhyme wasn't lost on me either!!), but I'm just expressing my opinion ...so there :-) !

[wiltner]

I agree dermo65, as a player Wayne Krantz is an icon to me but he was wrong for this gig. He was never going to play it by the numbers. The current guy John Herrington is much more suited, but the best they ever had was Drew Zingg in my opinion. He was like Larry Carlton but with more chops.

[dermo65]

I totally agree Herrington is the man for the job. Drew Zingg was very good too. I don't agree that he's got more chops than Larry tho'. LC can seriously shred when he wants, but he chooses to exercise restraint. As regards Krantz, he's a monster player, but maybe a bit over qualified for the gig!

[wiltner]

It's probably a preference thing or maybe I've gotten used to Larry's playing but Drew Zingg's approach to soloing is very fresh and musical and quite technical. Listen to Minute by minute and Green Flower Street from The New York Rock and Soul Review. However I admit if it wasn't for Larry there would'nt be a Drew Zingg. And yes Larry can shred alright. He is not falling behind in his playing at all.

[CaptainJazz92]

no, no, definitely not overqualified, but just not right, he has no respect for the music, he just plays a bunch of fast modal stuff, sounds like a synth, theres no feel or 'style' in my opinion

[thecat029]

@wiltner I absolutely disagree with you. Steely Dan are innovators and so is Wayne Krantz. The textures that are present during the solo and arrangement are phenomenal and wouldn't have happened were it not for their willingness to try something new. Drew Zingg was a happy medium between Herington and Krantz. However as a fellow fan its good to read an opinion of someone else who is aware of all of there live phases as evidenced by their guitarists.

[wiltner]

@thecat029 we'll agree to differ on Wayne Krantz.. Steely Dan are an alloy of Jazz and Blues. Krantz is just too experimental for me and his sound here is awfull. Thin and with modulation effects.This solo does nothing for me. Zingg's 335 thru a fender blues delux uneffected is the best sound. Clear and defined. Check out his solo on Pretzel Logic.

[thecat029]

@wiltner you could have left it at "we'll agree to differ on Wayne Krantz." you didn't have to trash someone who is head and shoulders more talented than you, if you even play. have some class, man. you sound like you don't know what you're talking about.

[wiltner]

@thecat029 I'll say it once more. I feel Wayne Krantz was not the best guitar player for the Steely Dan gig. He is head and shoulders above most guitarists but not on this gig in my opinion. I'm not thrashing him. I have travelled abroad to see Wayne play his own stuff. I am only referring to the Steely Dan gig.

[jopakr]

I'd like to hear Steely Dan with Robben Ford.

[danboyguitar94]

@wiltner There are very very few people with more chops that Larry Carlton he is the best guitarist they have ever had.

[danboyguitar94]

@danboyguitar94 than*

[gratefullybred]

say what you want about krantz, but the guy is one of the most genius guitar players on the planet at this point in time..

[fraink7]

I agree.The guitar work is not very good.The newer version is much better.The 2 girl back -up singers just don't quite cut it.Need 3 like the newer version.

[naturaltoby]

Everyone is so used to hearing Larry's vocal-like melodic lines on this song that it is almost blashemous to stray from it....Wayne is one of the greats, but his solo here is not as desirable as Larry's.

[wellisaythat]

Just the wrong guitarists for Steely Dan, period.

He might sound good in some b-class metal band or something, idk. Wow this sucks with him playing it. Who even wants to listen to this again, lol.

[CaptainJazz92]

agreed

[wellisaythat]

mho about the guitar work,... it sounds just out of place. Tone just awful. Terrible melody.

One of the worst versions of this song because of it. Wont be back here again.

[TheWastedBalloon]

First song i learned, ever!

[joeharty]

Wayne Krantz is a great player but, he improvises far to much which takes away the whole feel of the song and how it was originally played by carlton!

[zuubeddjp]

i remember watching this video a while back and thinking how much that solo sucked. i didnt like it beyond a couple of parts.

[doxiehouse]

Wow so competitive........ cool down boys, this is music, you know...... art, whose better? cmon.................no reason to lose respect for each other.

[mikemorrison281]

Krantz is a beast! Just search for him with his own band. He's got his own concept that no one else is doing. I love Larry, too, but I'm sorry, Wayne is just the next generation and has Larry's shoulders to stand on, musically.

[malmatar]

Clean this mess up else we'll all end up in jail

Those test tubes and the scale

Just get it all out of here

Is there gas in the car?

Yes, there's gas in the car

I think the people down the hall know who you are

SD are just the best!

[crobins333]

whats going on here are we arguing about wayne krantz... unbelievable! the guy is utterly amazing

[treezrok]

Hard to believe anyone would ever comment negatively about s.d. Saw them live at the Gorge In George. WOW!

[Beanoismycat]

nothing beats or will ever to the larry carlton solo

[rdnzl1]

So let me get this straight...If you don't play a flury of notes, but bend a few and throw in a blues lick on a Steely Dan solo, that means your are lost? WTF?

[flyjoseph]

Krantz is friggin amazing, his solo is decent and those changes are really difficult to improv melodically over. People who try to diss him don't know what the hell they're talking about. Krantz could school Carlton six ways from sunday, end of argument.

[CaptainJazz92]

they're actually not that hard to play over, its a fairly simple jazz type of progression

[ocdrumboy1]

krantz is smokin'!!! dont listen to people that dont understand or even want to try :)

[matthewosburn]

so many cowardly youtube viewers of modest talents and immodest self-assessments ignorantly weighing in. wayne krantz is a fantastic guitarist any day of the week. on the steely dan website it is said the guitar spot in that group is the "most coveted in all of live rock music" SD could hire almost anyone they want for that gig but they got wayne. i hate to keep reading over and over again that "this guy sucks, that guy sucks" it is not possible to suck and be famous in this genre.

[CaptainJazz92]

they could and have, theres a reason krantz wasn't asked to come back after this tour and also why Jon Herington has been with them for 10 years

[lvanhalen]

@CaptainJazz92 I thought the same thing someone commented that Krantz was better than Herington but Krantz is great improvisation and Herington sticks to the steely dan rule of thumb tight and perfect to the album version its just my opinion I think both guitarist are great also Drew Zingg

[billes335]

man krantz is incredible. If some of you find his guitar work a bit off...check out some of his solo work. He can play clean as he wants but he's always pushing the limits. And for saying "he's using the wrong guitar"....I've heard my professor play straight jazz on an old strat and it sounds beautiful...you wouldn't even know it was a solid body.

[Saxyman14]

If people are complaining about this, I don't think they could handle his solo stuff. I love it. Makes steely dan sound boring as shit. His jazz background is a little much for some. I can't get enough. If "Greenwich Mean" was the only album on my iPod, I wouldn't mind a bit.

[etks1957]

The Dan is the GREATEST

[memacphail]

If one cant appreciate Steely Dans musical talent they need a head check.....

[marked95128]

Those in this forum talkin' shit about Krantz's solo need to broaden their musical palettes. His guitar solo here is a blistering, fantastic piece void of any discernible mistakes. It's quite possible however, that the scales and phrasings he presents do sound foreign to ears more accustomed to traditional pentatonic "rock and roll" arrangements. Perhaps a live performance by Poison, or maybe Madonna would be more satisfying to listeners who don't find this presentation moving...

[NixonMcvicar]

Niceley measured approbrium dude...

[jeffbeckfreak54]

Actually he kinda got lost in a couple of parts, but he could have done the job on the fly...I know I've spent the better part of 20 yrs doing it and have been playin' 37 yrs. He's quick, but work on the vibrato a lil

[wanker6957]

so just because i think his solo is bland rambling means i must be a poison fan?!

maybe i just like players that can play changes and actually say something like carlton or benson.

[rockeye]

krantz is nailing it........you guys just can't hear all the harmonic phrasings going on.  it's alright though........i don't blame you.

[gothetigers]

krantz fudges his way through the solo and plays obvious bum notes , didn't cut the changes at all.

[directech111]

Yup. Shouldn't have been done on that guitar either.

[jayleeds2006]

The guitarist they have now, Jon Herington, is waaay better. He can play this solo 100 different ways and still convey the same message. This guy has no idea what phrasings are right or what scales sound good. 2:44-2:50 and 3:54-3:59 stink like hot ass. But if that was him playing rhythm at the beginning and during the verses, those parts were ok. But he really messes up the feeling of the rest of the song.

[feelee15]

what you know about wayne krantz?

[jayleeds2006]

For me it's more about the music than the musician. I didn't know anything about Krantz, until I read about him on wiki. Apparently he's a big name and has a lot of respect. If he had done justice to this solo he would have had my respect off the bat. But I had to read and dig to find out about him. An artist's talent should speak for itself. Herington had my respect after I heard him play on the "2 against Nature" DVD. You have to admit as a musician yourself, this wasn't Krantz's best showing.

[feelee15]

true, this isnt exactly his cup of tea either i suppose, when he knows he wants to be blasting fusion and jazz over this stuff.

[habyss]

I remember Fagen's solo tour when Krantz and Herington were the guitarists. A reviewer said Herington was crisp and clean and Krantz was all over the place with a dizzying number of notes.

[timjmoran]

Thing is,Carlton set the bar inCREDibly high

w/ the original solo..for taste,note choice,

rhythmic values..it's really unbeatable.

In fact,I'd put it in my Top-10 all-time greats as far as guitar solos go.I think Krantz(actually a GREAT player,check out some of his klips)is merely trying to create

his own statement without referencing Carlton-

a tough thing to do,admittedly.BTB-I saw Carlton at a NAMM show many years back-asked if he had improvised that solo-and he said he HAD.Amazing!

[jayleeds2006]

The original solo was well crafted, but even with that said, Herington, is seemingly able to pull off an endless number of beautiful interpretations. I'm all for taking a piece and making it your own, but Krantz was simply hitting bad notes here. Maybe he was just having an off gig. That happens. ...Krantz seems to have a bigger name than Herington, but for me it's not about the musician, their name/history/background, it's about the music and the experience they're creating in the present.

[Jaytheguitarplayer]

It was a good solo, but it wasn't crafted. It was completely Improvised by Carlton. That's what Krantz did here. He Improvised

[jayleeds2006]

Yes, Tim was also saying that Carlton improv'd the solo on the original track. By well crafted I meant well done. But the discussion wasn't about whether the solo was improv'd or not (I knew Krantz was improv'ing). It was about my comments on the quality of the solo. One thing I'm learning is that Krantz definitely has his fan base. Say anything less than complementary about him, and ppl really come out to defend him. It's all good though, I'm the same way about my favorite artists.

[sunlion333]

As per the studio logs, the Carlton solo was take 17, so you could say he wrote it. Just a little inside info from an old hack who cut his teeth on all the great solos and has a friend or two who worked the gig.

[geisterbahn1]

guitar solos not up to much! he should geta few lessons off Larry

[pianoman815]

Where did you get this DVD boot? Is there a website or forum for Steely Dan?

[krelbar]

Don't dig the guitar player's tone.

[sbowlmoneymoney]

larry carlton i believe played lead guitar for the studio version of this song?

[CSNY225]

Yeah, it was Larry.

[sportschick1719]

Great rendition of this song..I prefer Wayne Krantz to the Dan's current lead guitarist, Jon Herrington.  Thank you for posting.

[randallcaster]

Weird, I prefer Herington to krantz for the Dan,

but on a jazz level Wayne is the superior improviser.

[marolio1]

me too but theres no one like larry

[negtype13]

nice tribute to Owsley

[CSNY225]

this is a great performance, although I think Michelle Wiley was sharp at times. She also has a somewhat annoying vibrato.