@Tartersauce101 "thats not even close to correct. the age of the universe is currently estimated at less than that!" Really? In which delusion is this?
Method Value [Gyr] +Errorbar -Errorbar [# in Billions of years, plus or minus # in Billions of years]
you do realize that every single number you posted was less than 15 billion yes? i'm sorry, but from your tone i thought you were going to prove me wrong...but, you still would have failed, as my central point (that the world is not dated to near 15 billion years old) was not even addressed by you.
@Tartersauce101 You didn't notice the plus/minus error bar in addition? That makes Elements and Old Stars bang on the money, fool. The bible idolators say 6,000 yrs. That makes them 15 billion years off! Wise up.
you're still not getting it. they stated that THE WORLD (as in the earth) is at LEAST 15 billion years old.
its in the very beginning of this video. which is needless to say, way the fuck off.
and, on the topic of the universe, saying something is at LEAST 15 billion years old (and later in the vid the guy says its over 15 billion) when in fact as the numbers you post say it is maybe at most 15 billion, if not a bit less, is also misleading.
@Tartersauce101 "they stated that THE WORLD (as in the earth) is at LEAST 15 billion years old".And it is wrong by 10 billion years, and it certainly is misleading, which is why Shroeder is lying his ass off.
Scientists been studying about the BIG BANG THEORY for like 100's of years.
Compare this to the 13.7billion years of existence, now tell me if you still believe these dudes, there's no solid proof, its all speculation, guessing more like it. hmmmm?
Now God on the other hand created the heavens and the earth and everything in 6 days and rested on the 7th. hmmmmm?
To be honest, i would rather believe in what 1 God say's then what millions of different scientists tell me..
@Gubbible" Now God on the other hand created the heavens and the earth and everything in 6 days" Uh, no he didn't see the video by pontecanis:"Mathematic Disproof of YEC"--if the Earth were created using the biblical timeline, it would be a sun, not a planet. See the video, do the math. Shroeder is an idiot.
@yootoobisrunbyidiots I don't think you understand Dr. Schroeder's theories or his math. If you haven't read his book then you should. He is a nuclear physicist who understands exactly what he is talking about.
@cmccurdy ~Shroeder is a fool who is a young Earth creationist. Young Earth has been mathematically disproven---if earth had been made in a biblical timeline, it would be a sun, not a planet. Shroeder overlooks that when calculation a timeline, one must always calculate from the same perspective and vantage point--he doens't. You van demonstrate his error by coun ting on your fingers--on the left count down from 10 (ends at 6); on the right, count up (ends at5) Do you conlude we have 11?
Using Shroeder's methods, we have 11 fingers. It is not that simple of course, but the essential point is the Shroeder is being dishonest and playing with the numbers in order to prove the validity of his religious delusions. He is wrong.
@deermusic As stated previously, if making calculations on a timeline, all calculations must be taken from the same stationary vantage point---this is intoductory Gr. 9 science. Schroeder does the opposite--he calculates from 2 vantage points, both of which move! This makes EVERY conclusion invalid. Additionally, 6 day creation has been PROVEN wrong mathematically (video cited previously)--again Schroeder is wrong. He is a fake and a fraud. Real scientists judge him a pariah.
@yootoobisrunbyidiots - He calculates according to the DATE OF ROSH HASHANA - the FIRST DAY OF CREATION - back from the Jewish year in which the calculation was done - the year 5768. Why were you not paying attention? Wikipedia has written an entire entry on Rosh Hashana - the first day of creation. It is advised that you read it and learn something valuable.
@adamatova "He calculates according to" ; the problem is that that is NOT his only vantage point. As I statesd previously, he uses TWO vantage points: Earth and the rim of the universe. It is not the DATE of the calculation, it is the problem that BOTH of his vantage points move, and calculation of distance and time from moving vantage points and EXTRAPOLATING to the middle is simply bad math. This is how he is wrong, and deceptive; he INTENDS to mislead.
@jollyphm1 - Keep laughing, because I'm laughing at you and this ridiculous insinuation, of which you have no citations, no searches but 2 random themes that have nothing to do with TIME as it is known in the Jewish calender. And what - are you one of those idol worshipers who believe a Jewish man hanging from a piece of wood is your *god* to boot? Nuff said. Fail!
@adamatova I thought you had been a "Seeker of Smooth Things" as the Essenes called them back then.. I do study Jewish calendars, Dead Sea Scrolls, Codexs the whole lot... The truth is what your use as a Hebrew calender is an i a construct. from alter period.. You should like at Enochen calendar systems far more accurate, and at one time your "sect' of Judaism also followed... Book of Jubilees for example... BTW hows that Bar Kakhba and Brooklyn Messiah working out
@jollyphm1 - how *wonderful* for you that you've collected all this information and how simultaneously sad that you haven't acquired the wisdom to go with that information. Typical of the data hoarders. Listen up and listen up once - because I am not going to repeat this. You want to be enlightened on what Judaism and Time is all about? There's a new vid out today by a brilliant scholar. Watch it and throw what you think you *know* to the wind. ZMbzdEexp9w
@yootoobisrunbyidiots - The same perspective and vantage point is the date of ALEPH TISHREI - the FIRST DAY IN THE MONTH of Tishrei - counting back from the current Jewish year in which we are now currently - 5771. If you are having difficulty comprehending how to do this - you might want the assistance of Google - Jewish calendar, calculation, Bereishit - or as suggested below to read Wikipedia's entry on Rosh Hashana.
@yootoobisrunbyidiots thats why the worlds strongest and devout atheist philosopher in the academic world converted to deism after listening to him, right?
Totally humorous that a man boasting to have a corner on knowing who God is would not give any credence to the influence that the One and Only Jesus Christ has had on this subject. Quite ironic that he would avoid confronting the One who claimed to know his Father in his search to explain God. Even the Buddist gives mention to Jesus. Come on people, wake up!
@bobmingram I'am Christian, and I find it very humorous that you would draw in Jesus Christ on a discourse on the beginning and the age of the universe. Quite ironic that a person implies that one must know Jesus Christ to know God, to know of God or the cosmology of the universe.
@killerbee2k you must claim to be "Christian" by the same authority that claims that to know God is to know Jesus Christ, otherwise you make up your own definition and that has no authority. So do you struggle to be convinced that Jesus Christ is God in flesh? Back to my comment: how can an author, scientist or not, claim anything about knowing God without any mention of the only way one can know God; Christ man- in him all things hold together! Have you researched laminen? google it and see
@bobmingram I believe we Christians reach God through Salvation through knowing and accepting Jesus Christ. Jews however reach God through struggle with God, and Muslims reach god through Submission. All have different goals and ends but I do believe they are all a way to know God.
I googled "Laminen" got a few dozen facebook pages. What were specifically wanting me to see?
@killerbee2k so your response makes better sense now. But how do you make claim to be Christian yet ignore Jesus exclusive claims that he is the only way to God. You have departed from his distinctive, and in so doing have declared that his atonement is only one manner of acquiring salvation. So does that make God a multiple personality, all things to all people? You have to come down on one side or the other, but not both. Just trying to clarify your foundation for statements.
@bobmingram Well, you are right. But I want them to worship God in their way because we are all worshipping the same God after all. I would like to think that is possible through the difference in theology, even though iam not being consistent. I just dont know to be truthful. It would be horrible if everyone who was not a christian went to hell, I just cant believe that.
@bobmingram And no, I dont belive God is all things to all people. Most other religions and even most Atheists worship Nature, I dont belive they will know God unless they change. Nature is amoral and under us Humans, worshipping nature is blasphemy.
@KittenButter The author Dr. Schroeder has been featured on several episodes of the NAKED ARCHEOLOGIST program hosted by Simcha Jacobovici. Dr. Schroeder simplifies his explanations of his proof of both cosmology & archeology that the Bible is true & secular history supports it. Brilliant man.
"Ancient Hindu cosmology presents a remarkably detailed and quantitative vision of cyclic evolution. The full picture has cycles within cycles, where each level of cycle has a different duration...is roughly that of a single cycle in the cyclic model." Endless Universe - Beyond the Big Bang by Paul J. Steinhardt and Neil Turok.
Sorry, I forgot to tell you all - I'm writing a book that will be available at the unbelievably low price of $24.95. Not bad for all the answers to Creation.
@azcentralsurprise With a Universe of cycles, one cycle would constitute an addition to the number of cycles experienced in the cosmos. If the Universe was endless that would be an oxymoron for there has already been an infinite number of cycles preceeding the current cycle which would mean that the current cycle is not an addition. Infinite+1 is the same number of cycles as infinitie+0 which is clearly a false statement. Therefor the Universe is not endless or eternal, there was a beginning.
@azcentralsurprise Well, I just proved to you that infinity is only a hypothetical premise which is impossible to exist in the physical universe. It can only exist in hypothetical methaphysics.
@azcentralsurprise Sure, I just have to beam up to my starship have sex with my hot vulcan gf then I'll get back at ya ;) Logic is independent of content good sir, unless you are like the political radicals who thinks logic is only logic if it supports your premise about reality and comes from someone with the right qualifications.
@Aanthanur tip if you don't believe in this and you want a eternal universe look at string theory pretty cool stuff ( but you probably already know about that =]
@Aanthanur He's explaining the origins of THIS universe and how the torah supports it (bible old testament) It is quite amazing that you do not find this an interesting topic. That just seems foolish.
@Aanthanur How does someone start with an unproven premise when he is talking about a book written in a very native foreign language, full of parables and poems.
If i wrote back then " Someone walked up to jesus and said his shoes were untied, then jesus laughed because he knew he was pulling his leg"
Today they would say "Jesus laughed as the man grabbed his leg and pulled it".
So yes this is indeed very interesting work he is talking about. It is a clarifying work. Everyone should see.
@BrooklynNotQueens Biblica Hebraica Stuttgartensia is the one I use. I think it's a compiled text from several manuscriptes. For Greek I use Nestle's 27th ed. more than the TR mss.
@BrooklynNotQueens Your bias is showing. I've seen bad science on both sides. Very few people on either side of the creation/evolution issue know Hebrew. I never met a science prof who knew Hebrew, and I studied under many in college. If any did know, they didn’t say. They don’t know Greek either. There's not much incentive for people to learn either language, although science terms are loaded with Greek.
Schroeder is an evolutionist who believes God directs evolution.
@TigeyPuss there is no creation vs evolution issue in science...only in the minds of people who believe they have information from a supernatural source. you would be laughed out of any physics class.
and i think you don't know even basic hebrew. hah.
to pontecanis. If someone might have questions as to Shroeder's explanation, by not allowing him to answer these objections and have already labeled him as unscientifical, is nothing more than retarded and unscientifical.
and even if these questions turn out to formulate some sort of evidence against Shroeder, this still does not prove that these objections "cannot" be refuted.
It is a matter of prospective, Gods time is different than mans, and where man is, as appose to the point of creation. Only God could of TRAVERSED the universe to tell the writers of Genisis, of the story creation. Looking in a telescope to the point of creation, the center, you would be looking back billions of years, by measurement of distance vs ?? velocity. How long for it to spread out in the first minutes, unimaginable speed, times light. Thanks God!
Genesis is fiction:This is the teaching of amillenial covenant theology which is based on an allegorical interpretation of Scripture as opposed, to a literal one This is the dominant teaching in most theological seminaries and has been for decades. As an example, there are 106 schools in the Christian College Coalition. Of those 106 only 5 teach a literal interpretation of the Genesis account of creation or that the flood was global & the flood prevailed the highest peaks
Your lectures are great, professor. I am a physician and was lucky to spend time training at rambam in Haifa. I am interested in physics and your theories.
arktheball~I must confess I am very much a stickler for protcol and methodology...it is extremely frustrating to see 'popular' media poorly covering science stories,especially those related to evolution, abiogenesis, or archeology and history. For me the process is simple~~if the data are there and support a valid conclusion, fine. But often, as you say, there is a conclusion going in search of supporting evidence: a problem for any point of debate,regardless of the actual argument made.
Besides, no one was there for the 1st moment of the universe coming into being, and thus could not have been experienced by anyone. Thus it was never 6 days to anyone's perspective. But rather can only be calculated as such.
Ok..so i can follow the logic in the comments, but i'm concerned about something. If 6 days back then seems to be 16billion from our perspective, when the bible says people lived for hundreds (in this case "x") of years, wouldn't that mean they lived for X multiplied by a million millions? So you have people living for incredible periods of time? All this theory lends credence to is that the bible is based on ancient astronomical knowledge, and not that there is a god, or jesus or anything.
Good question. Schroeder goes over this in The Science of God. During the beginning of creation of the universe "earth time" didn't exist, there was no earth. Earth was created on the 2nd day so the narrative is from a cosmic time not earth time. Then something changes: When Adam was created the time reference changes to "earth time". Thus the years afterward are "earth years" not "cosmic years". So the ages of men are actually hundreds of earth years not millions.The book goes into more detail.
So, the jews got time dilation right, but got all of god's laws and messages wrong? They can explain quantum mechanics in parable and wordplay etc, but can't manage to convey the most basic tenets of community, goodness, forgiveness etc. Sorry, but the likelyhood of that is next to zero. Nevermind that god allowed other gods to be worshipped before bothering to tell the jews what to write. And then contradict jewish writing with "his son," all to correct the mistakes of his imperfect creations?
@megawolf7 Since I disproved YEC mathematically [unchallenged by anyone to date,btw], I DO know what I am talking about...Shroeder is a twit trying to prove the absolute literality of the bible by distorting science, and he got caught at it. Deal with it as you wish.
Let's simplify this, look at order of creation. "Let there be light" AKA The BIg Bang before our solar system. Mankind's time is measured in solar years. Since creation was not complete until the solar sytem was in place and the appearance of mankind ADAM, it's referenced by mankinds vantage point. Thus 6000 years since that sixth day when ADAM arrived. However the time from the big bang in our solar years would no doubt be in the 15 billion range. Check out the first paragraphs in the bible.
All I see here is Dr. Schroeder presenting a lot of religious word-smithing to somehow say that the universe is as the blble says it is. This is what every deluded Christian and Jew will say when deeply deluded by bibical text. Nothing presented CAN change my mind because it lacks substance.
its not that complicated..if you were standing at the point where the universe came into being and looked at earth ..only 6 days will have passed since creation happened. if you are standing on earth looking backward at that point 15.5 billion years or so have passed..now do you get it?
Yes, the devil is in the details now. That "point" needs to be moving near the speed of light all that 15.5 billion years. That means that the entity is frozen in time and can't physically move in that time frame to do anything, much less create anything very intricately. He could not have "chats" with people in the bible, in real earth time from that "point" which you night call heaven. New questions arise that make the biblical account look petty and stupid.
you still do not understand God is an entity who can be "frozen in space" in order to have created the universe he would have had to have been outside the universe then entered it at the point of creation.this is possible under what we call string theory .
String theory is more generally referred to as "M" theory but that is an extension of quantum theory, and has nothing to do with relativity. Perhaps "god" is behind M-theory but that is a simple guess. Like Schroeder, you are trying to weave God into the fabric of physics just to satisfy your religious delusion. This is an unfortunate weakness of the human mind to seek such a cop-out of real science.
I agree. However, if his research is correct about the first 32 verses in Genesis 1, that show the Bible teaches the universe to be 15B years old, we've got something to think about...
For those of us that believe, the scriptures were written by men under the inspiration of God, therefore the issue of the writers knowing or even understanding this is irrelevant. The intent or knowledge of the writers - inspired or not - does not have any bearing as to whether or not the account matches science... There is no way to prove or disprove the existence of God, Schroeder simply shows how Genesis and Science can and do agree.
annxtte~ As a parable, a metaphor for creation, Genesis may be taken or left alone as the reader desires...my issue is not with the existence of a creator as I take this as axiomatic, just not in the manner of Genesis as a literal description of the process...Schroeder is incorrect in attempting to reverse extrapolate via the vantage of the rim of the universe in order to 'prove' Genesis to be literally true...
There was no beginning ? Come on now, when God created time/space matter for us, that's the beginning, the beginning of 'the time' we live in. This clip is like Hugh Ross crap and i'm not being it.
The universe is created in a mature way, or did you think God created Adam as an Embyo ? For God there is no beginning, for our time there IS. He created this in time, so therefore you have your beginning. You shouldn't upload these clips.
Amen, use the big bang to point to a God and use that to explain a young universe just as the Bible describes. If there is a God like the big bang proves, then why would the same God be unable to create it all in the literal way as the Bible describes ?????? OEC's are deluded, sorry, but it's true.
The big bang does not prove god exists. but i agree with " then why would the same God be unable to create it all in the literal way as the Bible describes ". I just find that first IF, to be one hell of a giant IF.
the big bang was just a biblical myth until science was forced to rethink itself again and cone into agreement with the Bible.I wonder what is next?Before the big bang was shown to be the correct cosmological model for creation men thought the bible was wrong because even Einstein thought the universe eternal.really think about this.
"Because that's the (time)stretching effect of the expansion of the universe". This is the give-away sentence that reveals Schroeder's fundamental error---he fails to realise that time varies from the locus of observation. Since the locus of observation is always the Earth, the expansion of time [while moving closer to the speed of light] does NOT occur!
The Torah/bible wrer written from one locus of vantage, and without the knowledge of any of Einstein's Relativity...Schroeder has used reverse extrapolation from the vantage point of the Universe's edge to attempt to prove Genesis accurate--reverse extrapolation in this manner is always going to be False--he must extrapolate from the locus of ORIGIN to maintain a valid timeline, and all his arguments fall apart as a result...
You'll have to explain to me how the writers of the bible knew of a vantagepoint elsewhere other than the Mediterranean basin, how the writers knew of the relativistic behavior of time, and of course how they knew about the speed of light, and precisely how they forgot to mention all of this in Genesis, where they said 6 days,not 10 billion years. Since the point of origin is unknown today, it would be impossible to write from that vantage~~sorry,it all falls apart~see the video
Mathematic Disproof of YEC...I have posted it in many places, but it is quickly removed by people who find the math upsetting,and the absolute disproof of YEC to be too much to handle.
draconus~that's a new one on me,tho it may depend on which version is being used...the language in KJV says it was written by men from their vantage point...there is no evidence whatsoever to support Schroeder's contention~~he has made too many assumptions that cannot be factually supported for his contentions to be true...this does not preclude the existence of a creator, but does show that the genesis myth is indeed false.
just out of curiosity, why did god stop openly narrating to men? If its ok to narrate to a few, why not narrate to us all at once? and why didnt he narrate to women? could it possibly be that all along it was just a method of control implemented through fear of punishment by an unprovable omnipotent god? What is more likely, men trying to control each other, or an all knowing, powerful god creating us, and only giving his message to a few men?
what you have missed is that god speaks to all humanity but very few listen.The fact you exists is proof that God exists.If you are to blind to see it...
How do you know that God didnt narrate to women? Ever hear of Esther, Sarai, Deborah, Mary? I am sure that I am forgetting many aswell. Well I would say that the All Powerful, Knowing God is just as likely or more likely. Do you have any reason to simply throw out the possibility of God as less likely? Please tell me your reasons. I honestly am interested :) And I am fairly certain that Humans are like the mouse.... if you give them cookies they want milk and if you give them milk etc....
Making reverse extrapolations relying on assumptions such as Shroeder does is not only poor math, it is bad science...the claim that the world ran on one time frame until 6000 yrs ago, and then somehow switched to another from then to the present is ludicrous, and has no evidence whatsoever to offer as proof...Shroeder set out to legitimize the genesis myth, and then manipulated the numbers and jumped through hoops until he could seem to make sense! Bad science,bad math,bad idea, FALSE idea!
Hey!! Quit horning in you hoser! You are correct,of course,nonetheless. Reverse extrapolation is always problematic as it starts from a known point in the present and goes backward to attempt to justify past events or ideas from a modern perspective. Not unlike attempting to refight the Battle of Gettysburg based on what is known now~~a win every time! The process is logically invalid.
so reverse engineering is bad science?are a scientist that can prove his math is incorrect?This man is one of the premier physicist in the world and your saying he fudged his math ..please you can do better than that.
I am not saying he fudged his math, I'm saying he made an elemental mistake in attempting to procede from a known point (the present) and attempt to prove the genesis myth is accurate by reverse EXTRAPOLATION, and in the process A) ASSUME that humanity began 6,000 years ago (for which there is NO evidence, and ample disproof)
and B) ASSUME that time was measured differently prior to 6,000 years ago, for which there is no evidence, and ample disproof. And C) To legitimize the idiotic assertion
of Bishop Ussher, that the Earth (in Shroeder's eyes,post-birth-of-adam time) began 11:30 AM, Thursday, October 23, 4004BC-->this ridiculous date is not in the bible,btw,but was dreamed up by Ussher by counting the number of begats and GUESSING the ages of the begatters. Shroeder is obsessed with his vision, and it has blinded him to his errors in logic and procedure.
Shroeder also persists in the delusional notion of a global flood,for which there is no proof, and extraordinarily ample disproof. Religious zeal and willingness to deny facts and misuse science are not substitutes for legitimate scientific enquiry. Shroeder is blinded by his fundamentalist fanaticism and is just plain wrong!
there have been 2 global deluges according to scientists, one at the end of the last ice age 13,000 years ago and one millions of years ago for which there is plenty of proof.the only error is using the bible to try and get an accurate date on the last flood.the time used in Judges is insufficient to cover that entire period in Israeli history.Judges only covers the lives and events of certain people during that time not the entire period, there in lies the common error.
TWO deluges? According to which "scientists" draconus?If you are referring to rising-falling sea levels, these are not flood-related...the only flood of global proportions is the delusional one in Shroeder's mind...there is also no time dilation because ALL of the bible refers to the vantage point of the Earth and NO OTHER--it is a delusional construct of Shroeder's mind to which he refers...now do you get it? It is IMPOSSIBLE...any measurement must always use the same values or is FALSE!!
Shroeder's "research" is a complete fiction, religion dressed up as bogus science, dressed up as pseudoscience, being presented as science in a con-job.Dimwit has STARTED with the idea that genesis is correct, and then attempted to construct evidence to show that, which is not only bad logic but bad science as well. This video series is junk.
Isnt that how all scientific knowledge is obtained? Assume something is true, then find if the conclusions that follow match our discoveries? Your narrow minded, dogmatic adherence to what you are told by the consensus is junk.
@arktheball ~Extrapolation is the assumption of actions occurring without actually possessing evidence, which is why reverse extrapolation [preceding from a known point in the present to an unknown point in the past ] is so often wildly inaccurate. Since fossils ARE evidence, the process of extrapolation is instead a process of discovery. The other stumbling block is that extrapolation is vulnerable to wilful interference, whereas science demands data...
I saw an amusing cartoon depicting "creation science" --one man says to the other: "Here is our conclusion [god did it]; now let's make up some justification" Science says: "Here is the data--what hypothesis may be drawn from them, or are we able to confirm an existing hypothesis based on the available data?". Schroeder has not followed proper scientific procedure, and thus is incorrect; your narrow minded, dogmatic adherence to what you are told by biblioltors results in junk.
@pontecanis But he is still correct or he would have been laughed out of the scientific community and Dawkins hasn't even tried to correct him because he can't .
@draconusrex33 Dawkins doesn't waste his time with incompetents like Shroeder, who indeed has been laughed out of the scientific community. He is regarded as a deluded buffoon who tries to prove the bible absolutely correct by distorting science.
@draconusrex33 Oh, helloooo....his science is bad, discredited, and proven false. Dawkins has no need to prove him false,as he has done it himself. See my vid
"Mathematic Disproof of YEC" which has the math showing Shroeder is wrng.
@pontecanis I think you have him confused with Hovine ,this guy is still one of the best in physics.And is not a yec.Your reference to your video shows you didn't even watch this or understand what he is talking about.
@draconusrex33 " Biblical chronology dates the world as being less than 6000 years old" >>what about that do you not get? I proved this wrong mathematically. It is part of Shroeder's delusional process to prove the bible absolute, and yet ironically does not appear in the bible, but came from Bishop Ussher. The math is correct; Shroeder is wrong, a poor scientist, and his physics 'skills' suck
Thank you pontecanis : ) But after you are reading your post I still cant help but feel that evolutionary science, especially archeology, is so rife with the kind of wilful inference, and reverse extrapolation (namely, "we know all species evolved from a common ancestor etc.... so how do these fossils show that?" ) You spoke of. When ever I read articles on these topics from Science Magazine or NeoGeo, the RE and Inference pratically leap screaming from the page.
@pontecanis The fossils are evidence of dead creatures fortunate enough to be fossilizsed, but the interpretation of the evidence is where the conflicts begin.
@TigeyPuss1 Astrophysics and cosmology are mathematical and not open to interpretation. Shroeder butchers the process in order to try to to prove the bible is scientifically accurate--his misinterpretation and invention of nonxistent pseudoscience is incorrect. Far from being a genius, he is an unprincipled liar and a truly lousy scientist, which is why his ideas are regarded as junk...
Most of the scientific community sees through this nonsense of Shroeder's, which they recognize has so many flaws as to render it laughable...the only people giving him any credence are those unfamiliar with the science involved. A relatively simple mathematic equation refutes the core of his argument, and the illogic of his asinine extrapolations only makes his folly worse. He is a waste of time.
@pontecanis A friend of mine loaned me one of Schroeder's books and asked me to take a look at his stuff on YouTube. I didn't like it, so after the first few chapters, I skimmed my way to freedom. He is an evolutionist.BTW
Interpretation is the game, especially in paleontology. The problem isn't with the laws of physics and chemistry. However, when a paleontologist holds a fossil in his hand, it's not math or physics. This is where presuppositions and interpretation begin to muddy the waters.
@pontecanis I've found an interesting problem in cosmology and astrophysics. For years I wondered how stars formed, ever since I learned about the gas laws.
Sir James Jeans did the math concerning star formation from a nebula. The question is how did the first stars ever form? The further back in time, the hotter the universe
Astronomers have not actually observed star formation. They see dense clouds and Bok globules and assume the “young” stars in them formed recently.
@TigeyPuss1 The idea is that the accretion of matter plus the friction generated and energy transfer from collisions led to enough heat to create fusion-- 17.1 x 10 6th ev--attempting to show creation of Earth in a biblical time frame would thus produce a sun rather than a planet--the 1st stars formed the same way they all do, and HAVE been observed to follow the Kennicutt-Schmidt Law...
I understand the big bang was a misnomer, i use the term "explosion" in a metaphorical sense. It wasnt big because big is a relative term and at the time the universe was a singularity, and it wasnt a bang because there was no air to carry the vibrations from the "explosion."
Why dont you try to learn something about cosmology. The law of physics break down at the big bang,everything you are preaching here about science and "indisputable laws of physics" mean shit at the moment of creation.
You're arguing that a book that says the earth comes before the sun & night & day exist before the sun, yet telling people to learn about cosmology. Oh, can't forget that space is a firmament of WATER. Sure have gotten alot of use out of submarines out there in space missions, huh? Sorry, this stupid quote is nothing compared to all the other completely WRONG things the jews thought about how the universe was constructed.
Keep running your mouth, you still havent provided any proof. The jews gave morality to the world, bible has been a best seller for 3000 years, again, keep running your mouth, your not showing any roof? My numerology doesnt prove shit? so you dont think that someone estimating the age of the universe to be 15 billion years old over 2000 years ago isnt impressive? You said jews didnt contribute anything to the world, secular or not they did, so i proved you wrong.
The jews gave morality? How so? Have you even read the old testament? I'm hard-pressed to find any morality, just slaughter of one tribe over another. All those great commandments were meant to be only for those in the tribe, THE JEWS, not everyone.
No, I find it extremely unimpressing, it doesn't prove anything!
Didn't match enough. BS
IzirAtig 2 months ago
iam glad this guys not creationist
bellyzbad 8 months ago
THE WORLD IS DATED TO AT LEAST 15 BILLION YEARS??
ok, how old is this video?? thats not even close to correct. the age of the universe is currently estimated at less than that!
Tartersauce101 8 months ago
@Tartersauce101 "thats not even close to correct. the age of the universe is currently estimated at less than that!" Really? In which delusion is this?
Method Value [Gyr] +Errorbar -Errorbar [# in Billions of years, plus or minus # in Billions of years]
Elements 14.5 +2.8 -2.5
Old Stars 14.4 +2.2 -2.2
GC MSTO 12.2 +1.3 -1.3
Disk WDs 11.5 +infinity -1
GC WDs 12.8 +1.1 -1.1
Weighted Mean 12.94 +0.75 -0.75
Source:E.L. Wright, PH.D, UCLA Astronomer
yootoobisrunbyidiots 8 months ago
@yootoobisrunbyidiots
you do realize that every single number you posted was less than 15 billion yes? i'm sorry, but from your tone i thought you were going to prove me wrong...but, you still would have failed, as my central point (that the world is not dated to near 15 billion years old) was not even addressed by you.
fail harder next time yes?
Tartersauce101 8 months ago
@Tartersauce101 You didn't notice the plus/minus error bar in addition? That makes Elements and Old Stars bang on the money, fool. The bible idolators say 6,000 yrs. That makes them 15 billion years off! Wise up.
yootoobisrunbyidiots 8 months ago
@yootoobisrunbyidiots
you're still not getting it. they stated that THE WORLD (as in the earth) is at LEAST 15 billion years old.
its in the very beginning of this video. which is needless to say, way the fuck off.
and, on the topic of the universe, saying something is at LEAST 15 billion years old (and later in the vid the guy says its over 15 billion) when in fact as the numbers you post say it is maybe at most 15 billion, if not a bit less, is also misleading.
Tartersauce101 8 months ago
@Tartersauce101 "they stated that THE WORLD (as in the earth) is at LEAST 15 billion years old".And it is wrong by 10 billion years, and it certainly is misleading, which is why Shroeder is lying his ass off.
yootoobisrunbyidiots 8 months ago
@Tartersauce101 well is like 14.7 billion but just rounding it up so 15 billion
bellyzbad 8 months ago
Is this parody?
sKepptiksowat 8 months ago
Scientists been studying about the BIG BANG THEORY for like 100's of years.
Compare this to the 13.7billion years of existence, now tell me if you still believe these dudes, there's no solid proof, its all speculation, guessing more like it. hmmmm?
Now God on the other hand created the heavens and the earth and everything in 6 days and rested on the 7th. hmmmmm?
To be honest, i would rather believe in what 1 God say's then what millions of different scientists tell me..
Gubbible 11 months ago
@Gubbible" Now God on the other hand created the heavens and the earth and everything in 6 days" Uh, no he didn't see the video by pontecanis:"Mathematic Disproof of YEC"--if the Earth were created using the biblical timeline, it would be a sun, not a planet. See the video, do the math. Shroeder is an idiot.
yootoobisrunbyidiots 10 months ago
@yootoobisrunbyidiots I don't think you understand Dr. Schroeder's theories or his math. If you haven't read his book then you should. He is a nuclear physicist who understands exactly what he is talking about.
cmccurdy 10 months ago
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yootoobisrunbyidiots 10 months ago
@cmccurdy ~Shroeder is a fool who is a young Earth creationist. Young Earth has been mathematically disproven---if earth had been made in a biblical timeline, it would be a sun, not a planet. Shroeder overlooks that when calculation a timeline, one must always calculate from the same perspective and vantage point--he doens't. You van demonstrate his error by coun ting on your fingers--on the left count down from 10 (ends at 6); on the right, count up (ends at5) Do you conlude we have 11?
yootoobisrunbyidiots 10 months ago
Using Shroeder's methods, we have 11 fingers. It is not that simple of course, but the essential point is the Shroeder is being dishonest and playing with the numbers in order to prove the validity of his religious delusions. He is wrong.
yootoobisrunbyidiots 10 months ago
@yootoobisrunbyidiots Explain, please, how Dr. Schroeder is wrong.
deermusic 9 months ago
@deermusic As stated previously, if making calculations on a timeline, all calculations must be taken from the same stationary vantage point---this is intoductory Gr. 9 science. Schroeder does the opposite--he calculates from 2 vantage points, both of which move! This makes EVERY conclusion invalid. Additionally, 6 day creation has been PROVEN wrong mathematically (video cited previously)--again Schroeder is wrong. He is a fake and a fraud. Real scientists judge him a pariah.
yootoobisrunbyidiots 9 months ago
@yootoobisrunbyidiots - He calculates according to the DATE OF ROSH HASHANA - the FIRST DAY OF CREATION - back from the Jewish year in which the calculation was done - the year 5768. Why were you not paying attention? Wikipedia has written an entire entry on Rosh Hashana - the first day of creation. It is advised that you read it and learn something valuable.
adamatova 8 months ago
@adamatova "He calculates according to" ; the problem is that that is NOT his only vantage point. As I statesd previously, he uses TWO vantage points: Earth and the rim of the universe. It is not the DATE of the calculation, it is the problem that BOTH of his vantage points move, and calculation of distance and time from moving vantage points and EXTRAPOLATING to the middle is simply bad math. This is how he is wrong, and deceptive; he INTENDS to mislead.
yootoobisrunbyidiots 8 months ago
@yootoobisrunbyidiots - the rim of the universe? There is no rim of the universe
adamatova 8 months ago
@adamatova Actually your calendar is off by 240 years.. It was done to promote Bar Kokhba as Messiah by Akiba during the 2nd revolt Jewish Revolt
jollyphm1 8 months ago
@jollyphm1 - Prove it and cite your sources.
adamatova 8 months ago
@adamatova I AM COMPLETE ROFLMAO.. Its a simple historical footnote well known to scholars and theologians.
Bar Kakhba Revolt, 240 years, Akiba Go google it on our own...
Just like the Birkat HaMINIM is a direct assault on Yeshua his the followers of the Way..... Cairo codex discovered in 1924 look that up also...
jollyphm1 8 months ago
@jollyphm1 - Keep laughing, because I'm laughing at you and this ridiculous insinuation, of which you have no citations, no searches but 2 random themes that have nothing to do with TIME as it is known in the Jewish calender. And what - are you one of those idol worshipers who believe a Jewish man hanging from a piece of wood is your *god* to boot? Nuff said. Fail!
adamatova 8 months ago
@adamatova I thought you had been a "Seeker of Smooth Things" as the Essenes called them back then.. I do study Jewish calendars, Dead Sea Scrolls, Codexs the whole lot... The truth is what your use as a Hebrew calender is an i a construct. from alter period.. You should like at Enochen calendar systems far more accurate, and at one time your "sect' of Judaism also followed... Book of Jubilees for example... BTW hows that Bar Kakhba and Brooklyn Messiah working out
jollyphm1 8 months ago
@jollyphm1 - how *wonderful* for you that you've collected all this information and how simultaneously sad that you haven't acquired the wisdom to go with that information. Typical of the data hoarders. Listen up and listen up once - because I am not going to repeat this. You want to be enlightened on what Judaism and Time is all about? There's a new vid out today by a brilliant scholar. Watch it and throw what you think you *know* to the wind. ZMbzdEexp9w
adamatova 8 months ago
@yootoobisrunbyidiots - The same perspective and vantage point is the date of ALEPH TISHREI - the FIRST DAY IN THE MONTH of Tishrei - counting back from the current Jewish year in which we are now currently - 5771. If you are having difficulty comprehending how to do this - you might want the assistance of Google - Jewish calendar, calculation, Bereishit - or as suggested below to read Wikipedia's entry on Rosh Hashana.
adamatova 8 months ago
Too bad Shroeder is incorrect and everything here proceeds from flawed logic.
yootoobisrunbyidiots 11 months ago
@yootoobisrunbyidiots thats why the worlds strongest and devout atheist philosopher in the academic world converted to deism after listening to him, right?
erice495able 10 months ago
@erice495able And who might that be? I would also remind you that deism hardly qualifies as an endorsement of Shroeder's nonsense.
yootoobisrunbyidiots 10 months ago
I would say there is a lie in science.
RBHILL300 1 year ago
i would say there is a lie in science.
RBHILL300 1 year ago
is gerald schroeder a messianic jew or just an orthodox jew?
StarRonKid 1 year ago
@StarRonKid Orthodox Jew. Messianics are Christians.
JudgedInBlood 10 months ago
@StarRonKid He is Orthodox
cmccurdy 10 months ago
@StarRonKid Orthodox? Maybe Conservative... I know he isn't Messianic
jollyphm1 8 months ago
Totally humorous that a man boasting to have a corner on knowing who God is would not give any credence to the influence that the One and Only Jesus Christ has had on this subject. Quite ironic that he would avoid confronting the One who claimed to know his Father in his search to explain God. Even the Buddist gives mention to Jesus. Come on people, wake up!
bobmingram 1 year ago
@bobmingram why are you watching this?
Kassie0ate0a0cow 1 year ago
@bobmingram I'am Christian, and I find it very humorous that you would draw in Jesus Christ on a discourse on the beginning and the age of the universe. Quite ironic that a person implies that one must know Jesus Christ to know God, to know of God or the cosmology of the universe.
killerbee2k 1 year ago
@killerbee2k you must claim to be "Christian" by the same authority that claims that to know God is to know Jesus Christ, otherwise you make up your own definition and that has no authority. So do you struggle to be convinced that Jesus Christ is God in flesh? Back to my comment: how can an author, scientist or not, claim anything about knowing God without any mention of the only way one can know God; Christ man- in him all things hold together! Have you researched laminen? google it and see
bobmingram 1 year ago
@bobmingram I believe we Christians reach God through Salvation through knowing and accepting Jesus Christ. Jews however reach God through struggle with God, and Muslims reach god through Submission. All have different goals and ends but I do believe they are all a way to know God.
I googled "Laminen" got a few dozen facebook pages. What were specifically wanting me to see?
killerbee2k 1 year ago
@killerbee2k so your response makes better sense now. But how do you make claim to be Christian yet ignore Jesus exclusive claims that he is the only way to God. You have departed from his distinctive, and in so doing have declared that his atonement is only one manner of acquiring salvation. So does that make God a multiple personality, all things to all people? You have to come down on one side or the other, but not both. Just trying to clarify your foundation for statements.
bobmingram 1 year ago
@bobmingram Well, you are right. But I want them to worship God in their way because we are all worshipping the same God after all. I would like to think that is possible through the difference in theology, even though iam not being consistent. I just dont know to be truthful. It would be horrible if everyone who was not a christian went to hell, I just cant believe that.
killerbee2k 1 year ago
@bobmingram And no, I dont belive God is all things to all people. Most other religions and even most Atheists worship Nature, I dont belive they will know God unless they change. Nature is amoral and under us Humans, worshipping nature is blasphemy.
killerbee2k 1 year ago
@killerbee2k There is only one God, and Christ is his son.
rouncole1 1 year ago
@rouncole1 yes, my point exactly
killerbee2k 1 year ago
@killerbee2k ^_^
rouncole1 1 year ago
This is one of the greatest things I've ever seen.
KittenButter 1 year ago
@KittenButter The author Dr. Schroeder has been featured on several episodes of the NAKED ARCHEOLOGIST program hosted by Simcha Jacobovici. Dr. Schroeder simplifies his explanations of his proof of both cosmology & archeology that the Bible is true & secular history supports it. Brilliant man.
mushmushkila 1 year ago
Science of god???? HHHHahaAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA
TheBigMclargehuge 1 year ago
AMAzing! Thanks for the uploads! ;)
advantage73 1 year ago
"Ancient Hindu cosmology presents a remarkably detailed and quantitative vision of cyclic evolution. The full picture has cycles within cycles, where each level of cycle has a different duration...is roughly that of a single cycle in the cyclic model." Endless Universe - Beyond the Big Bang by Paul J. Steinhardt and Neil Turok.
My own theories with proof:
*I am 66 years old.
*The mark of the Beast is 666.
*Tomorrow is Big Lottery Jackpot.
*I will play all combinations with 6's.
*I will win!
azcentralsurprise 1 year ago
@azcentralsurprise
Sorry, I forgot to tell you all - I'm writing a book that will be available at the unbelievably low price of $24.95. Not bad for all the answers to Creation.
azcentralsurprise 1 year ago
@azcentralsurprise With a Universe of cycles, one cycle would constitute an addition to the number of cycles experienced in the cosmos. If the Universe was endless that would be an oxymoron for there has already been an infinite number of cycles preceeding the current cycle which would mean that the current cycle is not an addition. Infinite+1 is the same number of cycles as infinitie+0 which is clearly a false statement. Therefor the Universe is not endless or eternal, there was a beginning.
killerbee2k 1 year ago
@killerbee2k ,
You have stung yourself Mr. killerbee.
I strongly recommend your reading "Endless Universe".
Paul J. Steinhart, Neil Turok
Published by Doubleday
azcentralsurprise 1 year ago
@azcentralsurprise Well, I just proved to you that infinity is only a hypothetical premise which is impossible to exist in the physical universe. It can only exist in hypothetical methaphysics.
killerbee2k 1 year ago
@killerbee2k,
Thank you for the education.
Please send me a list of your academic publications along with a list of the courses you teach at Harvard; I am anxious to learn more.
azcentralsurprise 1 year ago
@azcentralsurprise Sure, I just have to beam up to my starship have sex with my hot vulcan gf then I'll get back at ya ;) Logic is independent of content good sir, unless you are like the political radicals who thinks logic is only logic if it supports your premise about reality and comes from someone with the right qualifications.
killerbee2k 1 year ago
@killerbee2k,
Romulans are far sexier than Vulcans.
BTW, how do you know I am a "good sir"? I could be a big fat Nigerian woman.
Not quite sure how or why "politcal radicals" walked into this conversation...
Logic: read "Godel - A Life of Logic" by Casti and Depauli.
azcentralsurprise 1 year ago
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azcentralsurprise 1 year ago
Thanks for posting this. Excellent info.
TrustinJC 1 year ago
@TrustinJC
"Excellent info"?
Better info: Alice in Wonderland and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
azcentralsurprise 1 year ago
while i do believe everything must have a beginning, i have no rational reasons to claim it a fact.
What speaks against an eternal cycle? and the big bang was just the start of one cycle.
He assumes something to be a fact and constructs a whole bunch of other claims based on that unproven premise.
not very motivating to watch 4 more videos based on that premise.
Aanthanur 1 year ago
@Aanthanur tip if you don't believe in this and you want a eternal universe look at string theory pretty cool stuff ( but you probably already know about that =]
demigodlord 1 year ago
@Aanthanur He's explaining the origins of THIS universe and how the torah supports it (bible old testament) It is quite amazing that you do not find this an interesting topic. That just seems foolish.
SupremeAmerican 1 year ago
@SupremeAmerican when he already starts with a unproven premise, it will most propably be not worth watching it.
Aanthanur 1 year ago
@Aanthanur How does someone start with an unproven premise when he is talking about a book written in a very native foreign language, full of parables and poems.
If i wrote back then " Someone walked up to jesus and said his shoes were untied, then jesus laughed because he knew he was pulling his leg"
Today they would say "Jesus laughed as the man grabbed his leg and pulled it".
So yes this is indeed very interesting work he is talking about. It is a clarifying work. Everyone should see.
SupremeAmerican 1 year ago
@SupremeAmerican
Torah supports the origins of THIS universe?
Let me see...if I take this square peg and I have this round hole...
See!!!
It fits!!!
Oooops..maybe not.
Ahhh...Torah supports a whole lot of Rabbis.
Now, we have a perfect fit.
azcentralsurprise 1 year ago
there are many versions of Torah in ancient hebrew. we keep on digging up more versions. which version do you prefer?
BrooklynNotQueens 1 year ago
@BrooklynNotQueens Biblica Hebraica Stuttgartensia is the one I use. I think it's a compiled text from several manuscriptes. For Greek I use Nestle's 27th ed. more than the TR mss.
TigeyPuss1 1 year ago
most creationists have never heard of bell's theorem. why is that?
BrooklynNotQueens 1 year ago
@BrooklynNotQueens Why pick on creationists? Don't be a jerk! Most people haven't heard of Bell's theorem.
TigeyPuss1 1 year ago
@TigeyPuss1 well creationism is just bad science so anyone who promotes it is promoting bad science.
cosmogeny is a bit more wild than the various versions of old hebrew texts.
most creationists are too stupid or lazy to even bother learning the hebrew needed to understand genesis.
BrooklynNotQueens 1 year ago
@BrooklynNotQueens Your bias is showing. I've seen bad science on both sides. Very few people on either side of the creation/evolution issue know Hebrew. I never met a science prof who knew Hebrew, and I studied under many in college. If any did know, they didn’t say. They don’t know Greek either. There's not much incentive for people to learn either language, although science terms are loaded with Greek.
Schroeder is an evolutionist who believes God directs evolution.
TigeyPuss1 1 year ago
@TigeyPuss there is no creation vs evolution issue in science...only in the minds of people who believe they have information from a supernatural source. you would be laughed out of any physics class.
and i think you don't know even basic hebrew. hah.
BrooklynNotQueens 1 year ago
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TigeyPuss1 1 year ago
to pontecanis. If someone might have questions as to Shroeder's explanation, by not allowing him to answer these objections and have already labeled him as unscientifical, is nothing more than retarded and unscientifical.
and even if these questions turn out to formulate some sort of evidence against Shroeder, this still does not prove that these objections "cannot" be refuted.
joseff4321 1 year ago
is he the guy who does the vioce of the jewish guy in family guy or what? lol
spynee 1 year ago
I heard this man live, he is a genius!
drunkchemist 1 year ago
It is a matter of prospective, Gods time is different than mans, and where man is, as appose to the point of creation. Only God could of TRAVERSED the universe to tell the writers of Genisis, of the story creation. Looking in a telescope to the point of creation, the center, you would be looking back billions of years, by measurement of distance vs ?? velocity. How long for it to spread out in the first minutes, unimaginable speed, times light. Thanks God!
SeekTruthinLight 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Genesis is fiction:This is the teaching of amillenial covenant theology which is based on an allegorical interpretation of Scripture as opposed, to a literal one This is the dominant teaching in most theological seminaries and has been for decades. As an example, there are 106 schools in the Christian College Coalition. Of those 106 only 5 teach a literal interpretation of the Genesis account of creation or that the flood was global & the flood prevailed the highest peaks
lizazoon 1 year ago
Your lectures are great, professor. I am a physician and was lucky to spend time training at rambam in Haifa. I am interested in physics and your theories.
7sevo7 1 year ago
arktheball~I must confess I am very much a stickler for protcol and methodology...it is extremely frustrating to see 'popular' media poorly covering science stories,especially those related to evolution, abiogenesis, or archeology and history. For me the process is simple~~if the data are there and support a valid conclusion, fine. But often, as you say, there is a conclusion going in search of supporting evidence: a problem for any point of debate,regardless of the actual argument made.
pontecanis 2 years ago
Besides, no one was there for the 1st moment of the universe coming into being, and thus could not have been experienced by anyone. Thus it was never 6 days to anyone's perspective. But rather can only be calculated as such.
FreemarketSocialist 2 years ago
Ok..so i can follow the logic in the comments, but i'm concerned about something. If 6 days back then seems to be 16billion from our perspective, when the bible says people lived for hundreds (in this case "x") of years, wouldn't that mean they lived for X multiplied by a million millions? So you have people living for incredible periods of time? All this theory lends credence to is that the bible is based on ancient astronomical knowledge, and not that there is a god, or jesus or anything.
FreemarketSocialist 2 years ago
Good question. Schroeder goes over this in The Science of God. During the beginning of creation of the universe "earth time" didn't exist, there was no earth. Earth was created on the 2nd day so the narrative is from a cosmic time not earth time. Then something changes: When Adam was created the time reference changes to "earth time". Thus the years afterward are "earth years" not "cosmic years". So the ages of men are actually hundreds of earth years not millions.The book goes into more detail.
megawolf7 2 years ago
There is no way a bunch of Jews from 3300 yrs ago could know about time dilation yet it is there. Coincidence or God?
megawolf7 2 years ago
So, the jews got time dilation right, but got all of god's laws and messages wrong? They can explain quantum mechanics in parable and wordplay etc, but can't manage to convey the most basic tenets of community, goodness, forgiveness etc. Sorry, but the likelyhood of that is next to zero. Nevermind that god allowed other gods to be worshipped before bothering to tell the jews what to write. And then contradict jewish writing with "his son," all to correct the mistakes of his imperfect creations?
FreemarketSocialist 2 years ago
1. Jews didn't get ALL of God's messages wrong. They got some and screw up some, just as ANY people group does.
2. ALL Jews didn't write Torah. Those chosen by God did. Thus, it makes sense that Torah is accurate scientifically because is was inspired by God.
3. There a plenty of Jews who convey goodness, etc. and some who don't. Its the same for ALL people groups. + it has nothing to do with the topic.
4. What God allows Jews to do and Jesus have nothing to do with the topic of the video.
megawolf7 2 years ago
@megawolf7 1-correct 2-wrong; the bible is not scientifically ANYTHING, much less correct. 3-correct 4-God has nothing to do with it.
pontecanis 1 year ago
@pontecanis You have no idea what you talking about. lol
megawolf7 1 year ago
@megawolf7 Since I disproved YEC mathematically [unchallenged by anyone to date,btw], I DO know what I am talking about...Shroeder is a twit trying to prove the absolute literality of the bible by distorting science, and he got caught at it. Deal with it as you wish.
pontecanis 1 year ago
@pontecanis
Sure, sure you did.
Yeah, Shroeder distorts science, uh-huh.
Believe what you like.
megawolf7 1 year ago
@megawolf7 I'll stick with the facts and leave the distortions to Shroeder and the rest of the bibliolators.
pontecanis 1 year ago
@pontecanis Sure, facts, right. lol.
megawolf7 1 year ago
@megawolf7 Since there is no time dilation, they couldn't know about it. No coincidence. Shroeder is wrong.
pontecanis 1 year ago
Let's simplify this, look at order of creation. "Let there be light" AKA The BIg Bang before our solar system. Mankind's time is measured in solar years. Since creation was not complete until the solar sytem was in place and the appearance of mankind ADAM, it's referenced by mankinds vantage point. Thus 6000 years since that sixth day when ADAM arrived. However the time from the big bang in our solar years would no doubt be in the 15 billion range. Check out the first paragraphs in the bible.
HebrewStudent 2 years ago
If this is true, then shouldn't the time dilation magnitude between the two correctly predict the mass of the Universe?
naturaltechnologies 2 years ago
no because some parts of the universe are denser than others,if mass dispersal had been uniform during expansion then you would be able to.
draconusrex33 2 years ago
All I see here is Dr. Schroeder presenting a lot of religious word-smithing to somehow say that the universe is as the blble says it is. This is what every deluded Christian and Jew will say when deeply deluded by bibical text. Nothing presented CAN change my mind because it lacks substance.
Andrewlohbihler 2 years ago
I guess all the cynics here are PhD rocket scientists like Dr. Schroeder?
kwrt165 2 years ago
its not that complicated..if you were standing at the point where the universe came into being and looked at earth ..only 6 days will have passed since creation happened. if you are standing on earth looking backward at that point 15.5 billion years or so have passed..now do you get it?
draconusrex33 2 years ago
Yes, the devil is in the details now. That "point" needs to be moving near the speed of light all that 15.5 billion years. That means that the entity is frozen in time and can't physically move in that time frame to do anything, much less create anything very intricately. He could not have "chats" with people in the bible, in real earth time from that "point" which you night call heaven. New questions arise that make the biblical account look petty and stupid.
Andrewlohbihler 2 years ago
you still do not understand God is an entity who can be "frozen in space" in order to have created the universe he would have had to have been outside the universe then entered it at the point of creation.this is possible under what we call string theory .
draconusrex33 2 years ago
String theory is more generally referred to as "M" theory but that is an extension of quantum theory, and has nothing to do with relativity. Perhaps "god" is behind M-theory but that is a simple guess. Like Schroeder, you are trying to weave God into the fabric of physics just to satisfy your religious delusion. This is an unfortunate weakness of the human mind to seek such a cop-out of real science.
Andrewlohbihler 2 years ago
@draconusrex33 We don't get it beause it is wrong, that's why.
pontecanis 1 year ago
I agree. However, if his research is correct about the first 32 verses in Genesis 1, that show the Bible teaches the universe to be 15B years old, we've got something to think about...
IntelEngineer1 2 years ago
The link on the side is broken
DistortedAudio 2 years ago
06:35
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh,
How does that make the bible's first word correct?
The bible talks about CREATION, the big bang theory talks about the expansion of already existing matter.
In the end, this is all just guessing and making texture into what you want it to be.
Hjernespreng 2 years ago
For a further deconstruction of Shroeders ideas and discussion of his errors, see
Not a Very Big Bang About Genesis
By Mark Perakh on Talk Reason~it is very detailed and quite well done...
jackalmate 2 years ago
Pontecanis,
For those of us that believe, the scriptures were written by men under the inspiration of God, therefore the issue of the writers knowing or even understanding this is irrelevant. The intent or knowledge of the writers - inspired or not - does not have any bearing as to whether or not the account matches science... There is no way to prove or disprove the existence of God, Schroeder simply shows how Genesis and Science can and do agree.
annxtte 2 years ago
annxtte~ As a parable, a metaphor for creation, Genesis may be taken or left alone as the reader desires...my issue is not with the existence of a creator as I take this as axiomatic, just not in the manner of Genesis as a literal description of the process...Schroeder is incorrect in attempting to reverse extrapolate via the vantage of the rim of the universe in order to 'prove' Genesis to be literally true...
pontecanis 2 years ago
5:58
There was no beginning ? Come on now, when God created time/space matter for us, that's the beginning, the beginning of 'the time' we live in. This clip is like Hugh Ross crap and i'm not being it.
The universe is created in a mature way, or did you think God created Adam as an Embyo ? For God there is no beginning, for our time there IS. He created this in time, so therefore you have your beginning. You shouldn't upload these clips.
CreationistsWON 2 years ago
Amen, use the big bang to point to a God and use that to explain a young universe just as the Bible describes. If there is a God like the big bang proves, then why would the same God be unable to create it all in the literal way as the Bible describes ?????? OEC's are deluded, sorry, but it's true.
newroze98 2 years ago
The big bang does not prove god exists. but i agree with " then why would the same God be unable to create it all in the literal way as the Bible describes ". I just find that first IF, to be one hell of a giant IF.
FreemarketSocialist 2 years ago
the big bang was just a biblical myth until science was forced to rethink itself again and cone into agreement with the Bible.I wonder what is next?Before the big bang was shown to be the correct cosmological model for creation men thought the bible was wrong because even Einstein thought the universe eternal.really think about this.
draconusrex33 2 years ago
"Because that's the (time)stretching effect of the expansion of the universe". This is the give-away sentence that reveals Schroeder's fundamental error---he fails to realise that time varies from the locus of observation. Since the locus of observation is always the Earth, the expansion of time [while moving closer to the speed of light] does NOT occur!
pontecanis 2 years ago
The Torah/bible wrer written from one locus of vantage, and without the knowledge of any of Einstein's Relativity...Schroeder has used reverse extrapolation from the vantage point of the Universe's edge to attempt to prove Genesis accurate--reverse extrapolation in this manner is always going to be False--he must extrapolate from the locus of ORIGIN to maintain a valid timeline, and all his arguments fall apart as a result...
pontecanis 2 years ago
why the math works..all he did was reverse engineering, which is done all the time.
draconusrex33 2 years ago
what did you not understand about where the locus of observation is during the Genesis narrative. At the point where the universe began not earth.
draconusrex33 2 years ago
You'll have to explain to me how the writers of the bible knew of a vantagepoint elsewhere other than the Mediterranean basin, how the writers knew of the relativistic behavior of time, and of course how they knew about the speed of light, and precisely how they forgot to mention all of this in Genesis, where they said 6 days,not 10 billion years. Since the point of origin is unknown today, it would be impossible to write from that vantage~~sorry,it all falls apart~see the video
pontecanis 2 years ago
Mathematic Disproof of YEC...I have posted it in many places, but it is quickly removed by people who find the math upsetting,and the absolute disproof of YEC to be too much to handle.
pontecanis 2 years ago
Whose vantage point is Genesis told from?Not mans but God talking to man from the point of creation..the reader assumes its from a point on earth.
draconusrex33 2 years ago
draconus~that's a new one on me,tho it may depend on which version is being used...the language in KJV says it was written by men from their vantage point...there is no evidence whatsoever to support Schroeder's contention~~he has made too many assumptions that cannot be factually supported for his contentions to be true...this does not preclude the existence of a creator, but does show that the genesis myth is indeed false.
pontecanis 2 years ago
the book was written by men but from Gods piont of view..its narrated to men from God .
draconusrex33 2 years ago
just out of curiosity, why did god stop openly narrating to men? If its ok to narrate to a few, why not narrate to us all at once? and why didnt he narrate to women? could it possibly be that all along it was just a method of control implemented through fear of punishment by an unprovable omnipotent god? What is more likely, men trying to control each other, or an all knowing, powerful god creating us, and only giving his message to a few men?
FreemarketSocialist 2 years ago
what you have missed is that god speaks to all humanity but very few listen.The fact you exists is proof that God exists.If you are to blind to see it...
draconusrex33 2 years ago
How do you know that God didnt narrate to women? Ever hear of Esther, Sarai, Deborah, Mary? I am sure that I am forgetting many aswell. Well I would say that the All Powerful, Knowing God is just as likely or more likely. Do you have any reason to simply throw out the possibility of God as less likely? Please tell me your reasons. I honestly am interested :) And I am fairly certain that Humans are like the mouse.... if you give them cookies they want milk and if you give them milk etc....
arktheball 2 years ago
how does it fall apart? ..the math works.
draconusrex33 2 years ago
Making reverse extrapolations relying on assumptions such as Shroeder does is not only poor math, it is bad science...the claim that the world ran on one time frame until 6000 yrs ago, and then somehow switched to another from then to the present is ludicrous, and has no evidence whatsoever to offer as proof...Shroeder set out to legitimize the genesis myth, and then manipulated the numbers and jumped through hoops until he could seem to make sense! Bad science,bad math,bad idea, FALSE idea!
jackalmate 2 years ago
Hey!! Quit horning in you hoser! You are correct,of course,nonetheless. Reverse extrapolation is always problematic as it starts from a known point in the present and goes backward to attempt to justify past events or ideas from a modern perspective. Not unlike attempting to refight the Battle of Gettysburg based on what is known now~~a win every time! The process is logically invalid.
pontecanis 2 years ago
Or reverse extrapolating the evolutionary tree from fossils dug up out of the ground?
arktheball 2 years ago
so reverse engineering is bad science?are a scientist that can prove his math is incorrect?This man is one of the premier physicist in the world and your saying he fudged his math ..please you can do better than that.
draconusrex33 2 years ago
I am not saying he fudged his math, I'm saying he made an elemental mistake in attempting to procede from a known point (the present) and attempt to prove the genesis myth is accurate by reverse EXTRAPOLATION, and in the process A) ASSUME that humanity began 6,000 years ago (for which there is NO evidence, and ample disproof)
and B) ASSUME that time was measured differently prior to 6,000 years ago, for which there is no evidence, and ample disproof. And C) To legitimize the idiotic assertion
jackalmate 2 years ago
of Bishop Ussher, that the Earth (in Shroeder's eyes,post-birth-of-adam time) began 11:30 AM, Thursday, October 23, 4004BC-->this ridiculous date is not in the bible,btw,but was dreamed up by Ussher by counting the number of begats and GUESSING the ages of the begatters. Shroeder is obsessed with his vision, and it has blinded him to his errors in logic and procedure.
jackalmate 2 years ago
Shroeder also persists in the delusional notion of a global flood,for which there is no proof, and extraordinarily ample disproof. Religious zeal and willingness to deny facts and misuse science are not substitutes for legitimate scientific enquiry. Shroeder is blinded by his fundamentalist fanaticism and is just plain wrong!
jackalmate 2 years ago
there have been 2 global deluges according to scientists, one at the end of the last ice age 13,000 years ago and one millions of years ago for which there is plenty of proof.the only error is using the bible to try and get an accurate date on the last flood.the time used in Judges is insufficient to cover that entire period in Israeli history.Judges only covers the lives and events of certain people during that time not the entire period, there in lies the common error.
draconusrex33 2 years ago
TWO deluges? According to which "scientists" draconus?If you are referring to rising-falling sea levels, these are not flood-related...the only flood of global proportions is the delusional one in Shroeder's mind...there is also no time dilation because ALL of the bible refers to the vantage point of the Earth and NO OTHER--it is a delusional construct of Shroeder's mind to which he refers...now do you get it? It is IMPOSSIBLE...any measurement must always use the same values or is FALSE!!
jackalmate 2 years ago
Shroeder's "research" is a complete fiction, religion dressed up as bogus science, dressed up as pseudoscience, being presented as science in a con-job.Dimwit has STARTED with the idea that genesis is correct, and then attempted to construct evidence to show that, which is not only bad logic but bad science as well. This video series is junk.
jackalmate 2 years ago
Isnt that how all scientific knowledge is obtained? Assume something is true, then find if the conclusions that follow match our discoveries? Your narrow minded, dogmatic adherence to what you are told by the consensus is junk.
arktheball 2 years ago
@arktheball ~Extrapolation is the assumption of actions occurring without actually possessing evidence, which is why reverse extrapolation [preceding from a known point in the present to an unknown point in the past ] is so often wildly inaccurate. Since fossils ARE evidence, the process of extrapolation is instead a process of discovery. The other stumbling block is that extrapolation is vulnerable to wilful interference, whereas science demands data...
pontecanis 2 years ago
I saw an amusing cartoon depicting "creation science" --one man says to the other: "Here is our conclusion [god did it]; now let's make up some justification" Science says: "Here is the data--what hypothesis may be drawn from them, or are we able to confirm an existing hypothesis based on the available data?". Schroeder has not followed proper scientific procedure, and thus is incorrect; your narrow minded, dogmatic adherence to what you are told by biblioltors results in junk.
pontecanis 2 years ago
@pontecanis But he is still correct or he would have been laughed out of the scientific community and Dawkins hasn't even tried to correct him because he can't .
draconusrex33 1 year ago
@draconusrex33 Dawkins doesn't waste his time with incompetents like Shroeder, who indeed has been laughed out of the scientific community. He is regarded as a deluded buffoon who tries to prove the bible absolutely correct by distorting science.
pontecanis 1 year ago
@pontecanis You can call him names all you want but his science is good,accepted and Dawkins won't take him on because he can't.
draconusrex33 1 year ago
@draconusrex33 Oh, helloooo....his science is bad, discredited, and proven false. Dawkins has no need to prove him false,as he has done it himself. See my vid
"Mathematic Disproof of YEC" which has the math showing Shroeder is wrng.
pontecanis 1 year ago
@pontecanis I think you have him confused with Hovine ,this guy is still one of the best in physics.And is not a yec.Your reference to your video shows you didn't even watch this or understand what he is talking about.
draconusrex33 1 year ago
@draconusrex33 " Biblical chronology dates the world as being less than 6000 years old" >>what about that do you not get? I proved this wrong mathematically. It is part of Shroeder's delusional process to prove the bible absolute, and yet ironically does not appear in the bible, but came from Bishop Ussher. The math is correct; Shroeder is wrong, a poor scientist, and his physics 'skills' suck
pontecanis 1 year ago
Thank you pontecanis : ) But after you are reading your post I still cant help but feel that evolutionary science, especially archeology, is so rife with the kind of wilful inference, and reverse extrapolation (namely, "we know all species evolved from a common ancestor etc.... so how do these fossils show that?" ) You spoke of. When ever I read articles on these topics from Science Magazine or NeoGeo, the RE and Inference pratically leap screaming from the page.
arktheball 2 years ago
Comment removed
Atalatl 2 years ago
@pontecanis The fossils are evidence of dead creatures fortunate enough to be fossilizsed, but the interpretation of the evidence is where the conflicts begin.
TigeyPuss1 1 year ago
@TigeyPuss1 Astrophysics and cosmology are mathematical and not open to interpretation. Shroeder butchers the process in order to try to to prove the bible is scientifically accurate--his misinterpretation and invention of nonxistent pseudoscience is incorrect. Far from being a genius, he is an unprincipled liar and a truly lousy scientist, which is why his ideas are regarded as junk...
pontecanis 1 year ago
Most of the scientific community sees through this nonsense of Shroeder's, which they recognize has so many flaws as to render it laughable...the only people giving him any credence are those unfamiliar with the science involved. A relatively simple mathematic equation refutes the core of his argument, and the illogic of his asinine extrapolations only makes his folly worse. He is a waste of time.
pontecanis 1 year ago
@pontecanis A friend of mine loaned me one of Schroeder's books and asked me to take a look at his stuff on YouTube. I didn't like it, so after the first few chapters, I skimmed my way to freedom. He is an evolutionist.BTW
Interpretation is the game, especially in paleontology. The problem isn't with the laws of physics and chemistry. However, when a paleontologist holds a fossil in his hand, it's not math or physics. This is where presuppositions and interpretation begin to muddy the waters.
TigeyPuss1 1 year ago
@pontecanis I've found an interesting problem in cosmology and astrophysics. For years I wondered how stars formed, ever since I learned about the gas laws.
Sir James Jeans did the math concerning star formation from a nebula. The question is how did the first stars ever form? The further back in time, the hotter the universe
Astronomers have not actually observed star formation. They see dense clouds and Bok globules and assume the “young” stars in them formed recently.
TigeyPuss1 1 year ago
@TigeyPuss1 The idea is that the accretion of matter plus the friction generated and energy transfer from collisions led to enough heat to create fusion-- 17.1 x 10 6th ev--attempting to show creation of Earth in a biblical time frame would thus produce a sun rather than a planet--the 1st stars formed the same way they all do, and HAVE been observed to follow the Kennicutt-Schmidt Law...
pontecanis 1 year ago
dude you totally missed what he said if you think that...
draconusrex33 2 years ago
I understand the big bang was a misnomer, i use the term "explosion" in a metaphorical sense. It wasnt big because big is a relative term and at the time the universe was a singularity, and it wasnt a bang because there was no air to carry the vibrations from the "explosion."
revahp001 2 years ago
Why dont you try to learn something about cosmology. The law of physics break down at the big bang,everything you are preaching here about science and "indisputable laws of physics" mean shit at the moment of creation.
revahp001 2 years ago
You're arguing that a book that says the earth comes before the sun & night & day exist before the sun, yet telling people to learn about cosmology. Oh, can't forget that space is a firmament of WATER. Sure have gotten alot of use out of submarines out there in space missions, huh? Sorry, this stupid quote is nothing compared to all the other completely WRONG things the jews thought about how the universe was constructed.
Gungfuwarrior 2 years ago
still waiting on those quotes
revahp001 2 years ago
WHAT QUOTES!? Quotes don't prove anything! Read the Vedas or the Upishands.
Gungfuwarrior 2 years ago
Keep running your mouth, you still havent provided any proof. The jews gave morality to the world, bible has been a best seller for 3000 years, again, keep running your mouth, your not showing any roof? My numerology doesnt prove shit? so you dont think that someone estimating the age of the universe to be 15 billion years old over 2000 years ago isnt impressive? You said jews didnt contribute anything to the world, secular or not they did, so i proved you wrong.
revahp001 2 years ago
The jews gave morality? How so? Have you even read the old testament? I'm hard-pressed to find any morality, just slaughter of one tribe over another. All those great commandments were meant to be only for those in the tribe, THE JEWS, not everyone.
No, I find it extremely unimpressing, it doesn't prove anything!
Gungfuwarrior 2 years ago