@LDS4Life71 The perpetuator and tutored liar is you. " Lying for the Lord " Lesson #13 in mormon school.
Are you not told to do whatever the Prophet & general authorities say , even if it is wrong ? Evidence is evil and to read only what is approved ? ( in case your unconverted ) Your taught the only evidence that is credible comes from a feel good sensation ? . all else is evil. Perhaps your happy as a born again Terrestrial kingdom mormon ? bat on oh shinning example.
Google Dr. Daniel C. Peterson has totally caught the speaker in this video in his LIES.
Don't believe the lies in this video and read the article by the world scholar of a REAL UNIVERSITY, Dr. Peterson, and not some little communtiy college like the strawman Murphy.
@LDS4Life71 Peterson repeatedly, in many videos that claim evidences, draws possible parallels , none of them are factual or scientific or evidence. the series" Book of mormon evidence" that Peterson features in many, have no evidences presented. making a statement to follow Peterson clearly represents another attempt to pass off & perpetuate lies. It is not surprising you are using the word LIES.
@LDS4Life71 that's not true. Wherein all you know is name calling and school yard comments. To quote a description of yourself. "The best he can do use circular logic, childish insults ..." How old are you ?
Wrong again, name calling, childish insults and illogical comments is all you know. Next time you go to church make an appointment with your bishop. Tell him your finding it difficult to be Christ like.
If you are a person with an LDS background as this video claims.You should know the scriptural reference to the scattered tribes of Israael that were scattered to lands northward(north of Jerusalem). Hello Mongolia is north of Jerusalem! How can you miss something like this? I really find it a bit hard to believe that you didn;t have some grudge against the church or just needed some attention.
If you are a person with an LDS background as this video claims.You should know the scriptural reference to the scattered tribes of Israael that were scattered to lands northward(north of Jerusalem).
Hello Mongolia is north of Jerusalem!
The problem here is that the Asiatic Mongolians who migrated across the Bering Straight were dark skinned long before they arrived in the new world.
Shoots the so-called "curse" of dark skinned "Lamanites" all to hell!!
Ok then just go get yourself a sample of Abraham's dna to test against.Get real man are you actually an anthropologist?How can anyone not seee that there might be a little difficulty in getting a good enough historically pertainant sample? You're saying dna doesn't change over generaitons?
I think at this point Smith himself can rise from the dead and tell the world he made it all up and some fools would still be defending the BOM and its lies.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Jesus doesn't want Science or anything to prove the Book of Mormon. He did it intentionally. He wants it proven with Faith alone. It's the ONLY way. Must read it, contemplate it, and then get down on your knees and pray to the father in the name of Christ if it is right and wait for your answer. It's the Only way to know that it's truely ANOTHER TESTIMENT of JESUS CHRIST.
Our enmity toward God takes on many labels, such as rebellion, hard-heartedness, stiff-neckedness, unrepentant, puffed up, easily offended, and sign seekers. The proud wish God would agree with them. They aren't interested in changing their opinions to agree with God's.
If what you are caliming is true, then why is there such abundant, objectively reviewed evidences to support the histrocity of The Bible?? (BTW, I'm not even a Christian!!)
Why does FlimmseyLindsay, FARMS, FAIRLDS, & other LDS Apologists sites keep trying to produce "evidence", if God doesn't want science to prove BoM??
If as you claim, "Jesus does not want science or anyhhing to prove BoM, then WHY does LDS sanction FARMS, FAIRLDS, and FlimmseyLindsay to churn out their garbage disguised as "evidence" to "prove" BoM??
There is no simple way to determine the validity of the Book of Mormon by the analysis and comparison of Hebrew and Amerindian DNA. We do not know what ancient Israelite or Nephite/Lamanite DNA looked like and modern Jewish populations may not reflect Israelite ancestry because of intermarriage and conversion over the past few thousand years.
In it's most basic and elemenary form, Ex: A,B,B,C,B,B,A, these parameters would not figure into the equation. In more complex applications, such as what some people perceive as "Biblical Encoding" they become vital.
Statistics are important because they have much to do with how an hypothosis can be mathematically skewed in toder to support a pre-determined outcome. It is also instrumental in scrutinizing evidence, distinguishimg anacdotal evidience from empirical evidednce.
As for Political Science, understanding how information is created, presented, the methods by which information is convoluted and distorted plays an intergral role in how the Chiastic Implications of Biblical encoding are interpreted, extrapolated, & desseminated. I'll get back to you with more on thiss a bit later, just very busy right now.
Cont'd TVN: Please consider; exploring LDS with a TRULY open mind CAN and HAS delivered many ex-Mo's to the realm of Apostacy. Dissenting opinions & challenging fundamental LDS beliefs is not welcome in LDS. I speak from personal experience. This CAN & HAS put serious strains on Ex-Mo's w/ family/LDS ties, marraiges, and relationships w/ children/ parents. Consider these matters carefully. I WANT to help U discover the truth; I DO NOT want to harm your family/friend relationships.
In any event, this subject is SUPPOSED to be about DNA & it's Applicability to BOM. I know how desperate you are to change the subject. your beliefs are riddled with lies and deceit!!
TVN; Sorry, I never claimed to be the best typist. Yes, you are correct; you DON'T know where I'm going with mathematics and polls. The REASON you don't know is that you are more wrapped up in clever ideas and warm fuzzy feelings than you are about truth and facts..
On one hand, I'd be happy t do it, though it would have to be via P.M.;the 500char. limit here does not make it practical. On the other hand, if your mind is not open to critical thinking and analysis, it would go straight over your head; tou would be unable to comprehend it.
TVN;RE: your respone; Hane you ever studued statistics in college?? If you have not, you'll need to start learning the basics. You will not understand the parameters for discussion without it, and, with no sarcasm intended, warm, fuzzy feelings will not help you discover the truth here.
TVN: BTW, it you really want to committ to studying this issue in depth, it would also help if yoou have some background in political science.
Now, I know that we've had our differences in the past; we still hold diametricaly opposite views her. At the same time, any student who studues statistics, ploitical science, or philosophy without a mind that is open to critical analysis, and facing the fact that he is/may be/could be wrong is an "F" waiting to be handed out.
I dont know much about these subjects, but I dont SEE where they connect with BoM chiasmus either. I'm not saying they dont, I've just never heard of it. and yeah, that would be cool if you would PM me. thanks.
Here is another dirty little secret that The Mormons will not tell you, although they CLAIM to hold the exclusive truth!! You can save a ton of money on your car insurance by swithching to GEICO!! No need to be LDS; it's so easy, a CAVEMAN could do it!!
Another thing, Cmurd7! You keep bringing up the plates...of course, JS never used the plates, as LDS suggest. He translated the non-existant plated by staring at a rock inside his hat.
Since the LDS Minions are so focused upon Chiasmi and word choiced, I just spent some time reading Lindsay's opinions are riddled with qualifiers, as "might be, could be, is plausible, may indicate....look at The Bible, look at the histrocity, the anthropology, the metalurgy, the landscape, the animals, the agriculture, the archeology, and these qualifiers become unneccessary... look at BOM, and the qualifiers are all you have to go on.. this, from the most correct book on Earth??"
After sincere prayer, I must apologize to all TBM's for not understanding the truth. I prayed fervently, and asked God to tell me if Joseph Smith was a true Spiritual Prophet, or a False Prophet. "Heavenly Father, WAS JS A TRUE MAN OF THE SPIRIT??" God spoke:"Yes JS WAS a true man of The Spirits". "What kind of Spirits", I asked?? Spirits of Heaven, or The Celestial Kingdom?" "No, Outlaw, not those Spirits!" "Then WHAT KIND of Spirits?" I asked. God Spoke:"Try DISTILLED Spirits"
Arch, once again you engage in deception, obfuscations, and convolutions to support your stand. I NEVER mentioned Smithsonian and Chiasmu; I stated that Smithsonian has publicly stated that there is NO archeological or anthropological evidence to support BOM. According to CNN.con, the Lemba's genetic connections to The Isrealites dates back 2500yrs, not 1000 as you claim. Seriously, do you have ANY credible sources to back you up?? Lindsay?? FAIRS?? FARMS?? ROFLMAO
alright "outlaw" since you're such an expert in the field of...anti-mormonism? why dont you go read some of the points lindsay makes and try to refute them...
I've read Lindsay's writtings extensively, and will be glad to refute his writtings; any particular area of interest you wish to examine?? DNA?? The Pappyrris?? Linguistics??(as in "Reformed Egyptian"??) Agronomy?? Zoology?? Demographics?? Metalurgy?? Be ready for meat instead of milk!! And while I'm doing that, I know that we will welcome your providing credible evidence to back up BOM!!
BTW, tvn66!! I've been working on my research re; Lindsay, FARMS & FAIR, hope you can help me out. God sent a Spirit; African American with Hebrew Beliefs (Sammy Davis Jr) He conducted mt to a convenience store wall with street gang graffiti, and told me that the writtings are in a language called "Reformed Ebonics". I have a nice hat, but I need a Seer Stone. You wouldn't happen to have a spare one, would you??
Okay, you still havent answered archileach about chiasmus.. lets see, Joseph Smith was heavily criticized for describing the records as being engraven upon metal plates. nowadays, we know that this was a common practice around the middle east around 600 BC, especially for religious writings...
Leach's mention of chiasmus was nothing but a lame diversionary tactic to deflect his inability to address this points that I made, and provide evidence to support his claim. Chiasmus was not even mentioned until I mentioned The Smithsonian, nor have you offered anthing to rebutt the points I've made.
Cmurd7; Re: records engraven on metal plates, this is a periphreal issue that I never mentioned. Both you & Leach are masters of LDS deceptions & convolutions. Unable to rebutt the points Ive made, you try to divert the focus into the realms of metal plates (JS claimed they were gold; too heavy to carry)and chiasmus. LDS trained you two very well.
Last I checked gold is a metal. was he not heavily criticized for claiming this? and now, it is known as a common practice of the time. and what claims have you made? nothing but broad statements. lets start with one. zoology, perhaps.
Gold is a metal?? That was never disputed by me. Too heavy for Smith to carry?? Yes!! Especially since Smith once claimed to have run with them!! Zooology... Horses?? Sheep?? Goats?? Before the 1600's?? Oats?? Wheat?? Barley?? Olives?? Nope!! Not by any credible source!! Bring me something from Smithsonian, or National Geographic, with them supporting your claims...won't happen!
Once again, Cmurd7, you attempt to engage in diversion and deception. I really don't give a kangaroo's ass if the plates were made of gold, some other metal, or cardboard. I do remind you that Smith changed his story 9 different times, and that his claim that the plated were gold is dubious because they would have been too heavy to carry.
So, now you would have us believe that the validity of BOM rests in JS's ability to engage in a play on words??? You consider that to be "evidence"?? Never mind that your geography is wrong, the zoology is all wrong, the archeology is wrong....Smith was capable of using Chiasmus in his writting style, therefore BOM is valid?? Dude, did you go to High School, or go to school high??
yes, chiasmus,therefore the BOM is valid. it is an ancient writing style not studied in the bible until the late 1820's (In europe) mid 1830's in US. and not recognized in the BOM until 1967. JS didnt know about it!
TVN66: Get REal. Chiasmus involves a play on word, such as the one I posed earlier. "Did you go to HIGH SCHOOL?? Or did you go to SCHOOL HIGH??? GEEEE! There's a little Chiasmus for you... makes me clever, but not a prophet. Once again, you want to play this moronic game of "Milk before met", "Answer the question I SHOULD have asked", evade and convolute the issue. The Bible is wroght with solid proof of authenticity. The BOM is not. (will continue)
As far as what Smith didn't know about, he was clever enough to conjure up "Reformed Egyptian", use it to concoct a fabricated translation of The Pappyrris, and Kinderhook Plates, figuring his followers were to stupid to know that no such language EVER existed. Of course, Liguistic Experts and Egyptologists would later expose his fraud. The Bible??? Very solid historical, demographic, physiological, anthropologic, and archeological PROOF of it's validity and Truthfullness. BOM??? Zilch!!
So, now, you are left to hang your feeble minded hopes on Chiasmus?? Smith's clever play on words?? Hey, Smith had quite an immagination, no one could rationally argue otherwise. So, his ability to create pllays on words isn't surprising, but it does not prove the authenticity of BOM either. Next lesson will be what?? LDS Numerology?? TVN66, if you and Lindsay are the best things LDS can offer, then the "Truth Deficiency" problems facing LDS will only continue to fester!!
Look, I dont have the answers for all of your questions on the BOM, just like neither of us have all the answers for a lot of people's questions about the Bible. but i KNOW they are both true and nothing you tell me is going to change that.
TVN666, if you do not have all of the answers, then how can you claim to "know" that BOM is true?? As far as your Mobot mind is concerned, all you are really saying is that your mind is made up, and you'd rather not be bothered by such trivial matters as fact and truth. Name me so mich as ONE credible scholar wh sees chiasmi as lending credibility to BOM.
Tvn666: Don't have the answers to ALL of my ?'s re: BOM?? Try "Don't have ANY truthfull answers". I speaking of FACTS not cleaver plays on words, or the warm, fuzzy feelings that you confuse with the truth.
TVN, go study Chiasma in more depth. The propagators use a technique called "Question Me An Answer". Much as statisticians and poll takers begin with a pre-determined outcome, then structure their findings to support their predetermined outcomes, proponents of Chiasmi work in the same fashion. In Mathematics, math problems are structured around the final answer. With Chiasma, the same thing occurrs.
Go take a few courses in statistics, then come try to support this "Chiasm" flim-flammery. Don't have ALL the answers?? Dude; You don't have ANY answers!!
dude do you even no what "chiasmus" is? first of all, "chiasma" is where two chromatids come together in a cell. no idea what "chiasm" is. "Chiasmus" is a somewhat poetic style of writing found in ancient texts (Bible for one, BOM for another). and I dont know where you're trying to go with mathematics and polls..
dude do you even no what "chiasmus" is? first of all, "chiasma" is where two chromatids come together in a cell. no idea what "chiasm" is. "Chiasmus" is a somewhat poetic style of writing found in ancient texts (Bible for one, BOM for another). and I dont know where you're trying to go with mathematics and polls..
Hey, TVN: By jove, you are correct afterall!! I just found a websight that proves EVERYTHING you said is the absolute TRUTH!!! Check out "Living Proof; Joseph smith's Newly Discovered Collection of LDS Chiasmus, Numerology, LDS Limmericks, and Nursery Rhymes"!!
Sure!! And why don't you get busy showing us some solid evidence to back up your BOM claims, as well?? Man if Lindsay is the best apologist LDS has, then LDS is in serious trouble!!
Isn't this a farce? Let's review, no group has yet been identified as being ancient Israelites of 600 BC, so how can DNA prove that native Americans are or are not related? Big problem. All this faux analysis shows is that if anyone thought Mormonism could be proved or disproved by appealing to DNA, they were wrong. DNA geneology databases that are currently being populated MAY one day START to better identify ancient peoples, but as of now they are still in their infancy.
Thomas demanded proof, and the Savior was constantly accosted by the call of the wicked to provide them proof and "show them a sign". The Savior said: "A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas." Why would I want to prove anything to you? What are you pathetic anti-mormons worthy to receive? Show me the group of Jews you've identified from 600 BC. Opps, you can't.
"Guess you've never heard of The Lemba Tribe!!" Yes, I'm well aware of them, how about you?? Care to give us a date on them? Do they date back 2600 years ago? LOL. No, they're actually irrelevant in this analysis.
Actuallt, The Lemba Tribe's genetic conections DO go back about 2500 yrs. There is absolutely NOTHING in The Dead Sea Scrolls that supports BOM. As far as the other "evidences" are concerned, no credible group of experts supports LDS claims. The Smithsonian has no axes to grind here, but they have been very clear on their position; nothing in this hemisphere supports BOM or LDS.
So "The Smithsonian" has commented on Chaismus? No, don't blame them for your ignorance. Google it, and don't talk about matters you know nothing about. BTW, the Lemda go back only a little more than a thousand years.
nashaunconwell, so the Bible has been proven? Have you also found the name of Moses among Egyptian writings? No? There are many evidences given to the faithful. Still, proving Himself through physical evidence is not the method God uses to bring people to him. The Holy spirit is the means he gives us for this. "You receive no witness until after the trial of your faith".
Wrong: If you look at The Crucifixion, there IS scientific verification. The events described entailed details that pertain to Human anatomy and physiology; details that were not scientifically understood at that time. (ex." the clear fluid that seeped from jesus's body at his death.)There is an abundance of evidence within the realms of archeology, anthropology, metalurgy, and zoology that attest to the accuracy of The Bible; yet, there is NO credible evidence to support the B.O.M.'s claims.
The Bible is a collection of writings through thousands of years. Proof for one event doesn't give credibility for another. And there is plenty of evidence to support the BOM, if you would take the time to look for it.
No, there is no CREDIBLE evidence. Your reply is quite common; disagree, but offer nothing of any substance to back your claims. Ever heard of The Dead Sea Scrolls??? Very compelling documentation to support the Bible.
BOM?? The Pappyrrus, The Kinderhook Plates?? JS's conflicting stories?? Get real!!
read up on Jeff Lindsay's writings on the BOM. I believe the Bible is true, but not because of the dead sea scrolls. they just prove it hasnt changed much, not that there was a flood that covered the earth, water can be turned to wine, etc.
Jeff Lindsay is hardly what could be called a credible source. I've read up on Lindsay; His writtings are filled with qualifiers such as plausible, could have been, may be, might be...there is a plethora of evidence to support events in The Bible; in BOM, thre is absolutely none.
I didnt say he was the say all and end all of the topic. i meant that he makes some very good points. a lot of which i havent seen anyone try to refute.
"Ever heard of The Dead Sea Scrolls???" Yes, they have something in common with the Holy Bible and the Book of Mormon that you're obviously unaware of... a Chiasmic writing style that is Hebrew in origion. Look into it, and then tell us why the greatest Chiasmus ever found is in the Book of Mormon. There are many other evidences, but your bias would make you reject any evidences presented.
Honesty is paramount in science, and sins of omission are often career-destroying events. This is probably the most devastating problem for Tom, who has previously accepted himself as a crusader comparable to Galileo. God complexes are so out of vogue among true scientists today. However, Tom hasn't caught on to this yet. Ego has never eluded this subjective researcher.
1 question: People can prove the sights, language, metalurgy in the books of the bible, however none can be found in the book of Mormon the corner of your religion and the only true book. In fact F.A.R.M.S has been set up for that purpose. Why do you beleive in a prophet that told lies in the book of Abraham, how he practised magic with the"Urim Thumim" (Seer Stone which was forbidden by Yahweh or Jehovah?
Third, is refuting the links that have recently been discovered tying Native Americans and Jewish peoples to each other. Fourth, is in acknowledging his own inadequacy for this task, and his own bias so overwhelmingly exhibited in his previous papers, speeches, and works. Fifth, is regaining credibility by being honest in presenting the known supportive and non-supportive evidence on the subject.
Tom Murphy has insurmountable problems to overcome in using DNA analysis to disprove the Book of Mormon. First and foremost is the problem of using DNA analysis in its present state of scientific capability to correctly extrapolate results with any significant meaning. Second, is specifying two representative groups that will allow conclusive proof that Book of Mormon people were not ancient Israelites.
I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet...When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go." (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409)
Where is your POSITIVE proof that THERE WERE ancient Israelites in Amer.? The scientific community has no problem with the present state of DNA reliability. Only FSRMS/FAIR and Jeff Lindsay have a problem with it. Guarenteed that if DNA in it's "present state" DID find Israelite DNA, all of a sudden you would be extoling to high heaven, the virtues of the advanced DNA processes.
Oh oh, looks like an antiMormon fanatic has latched onto my criticisms and wants to rumble. Wouldn't it be nice if youtube would let me post more than 500 words so I could do this justice? I love spanking faux-scientist types like DamnMe2L who think they have something more than pseudoscience here.
So far we've heard nothing but ad hominum from you, leach. If you have something to contribute, scholar that you want us to believe you are, write a paper on your objections to Thomas's findings, have it peer reviewed and submit it for publication--ahh, in a REAL
Scientific journal. You can even make it more than 500 words since youtube is such a stumbling block for you. Only blowhards need more than 500.
Any more than 500 would bore everyone to tears, leach, if what you've posted so far is any indication--nothing but baseless diatribe, which is also proof of who the REAL "fanatic" is. Mormonism is toast, leach.
You'd be better served to go back to your boring life in stead of getting your garmies in a twist here.
The luxury that religion has, is that it doesnt need any proof. It a belief. I could form a religion that says we all come from Neptune 1000 years ago, and I wouldnt have to proove it.
Mormons would call your claims stupid, while at the same time holding to equally bizzaro claims, yet totally unable to make the connection that THEIR claims ALSO sound crazy. It is truly amazing!
It's such a farce hearing Tom say "as a Mormon". He's a Mormon who hasn't attended his own church for over 10 years, and who has built his career on bringing it down. The only reason he hasn't withdrawn his Church membership is because he knows it will kill his credibility in his anti-Mormon research. It's sad that Edmunds community college has allowed him to use anti-Mormon topics for his theses and doctoral research. This looks pretty hokey an a professional resume as an anthropologist.
1. TM--Mormon Scholar. MormonISM scholar? Tom makes no claim to that. Is he a Mormon? Yes. Is he a scholar? Yes.(at least as much as is Lindsay is a "scholar".)
2. TM's "career" to distroy LDS. Evidence(s)?
3. How will "withdrawal from LDS" impact his credibility?
4. Anti-Mormon topics for his "thesis". How is challenging the outrageous LDS claim of Hebrews inhabiting ancient America considered "anti" anything but the claim itself? THAT seems "hokey", no?
Tommy's theory has fallen flat in the last few years, but he doesn't admit this. He doesn't admit that there's no meaningful mtDNA homology among modern jews, or that, due to its recent origin, internal controls of the Lemba aren't applicable to Book of Mormon groups, or that Cohen priests aren't expected to have been among Lehi's ancestry. He doesn't admit the presence of a founding Y-chromosome haplotype present among Jewish communities worldwide AND in Native Americans at a high frequency.
So funny to see supposed Christians using this guy's flawed theory to attack Mormons. Do you really believe his story that Native Americans migrated from Asia 10,000 to 35,000 years ago on a land bridge? And his belief that DNA proves that humans and monkeys had a common ancestor about 4 Million years ago? Thanks for the "science lesson" though.
arch. You are the one making unsubstantiated claims here RE: Thomas. Lets see the refutations of Thomas' research. Hint: FAIR/FARMS/Lindsay are, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES, considered science--not even PSEUDO-science as they are TOTALLY biased LDS apologists.
If you're going to use science to disprove religion, you might want to look at your own beliefs. Show me some scientific evidence that it is possible to turn water in to wine, or part the red sea, or heal a blind man by telling him to put clay in his eyes and then go wash it out, etc. hmmmm, seems like science isn't the answer my friend.
Part 1: Your reasoning is fallible, it's almost lazy thinking: the idea of miracles is exactly what it is. If you were witness to a pig which all of a sudden, flew in the air for which 'science' cannot explain, then that would be something quite extraordinary.
Part 2: When the Bible describes events that took place such as Jesus turning water into wine - they are exactly that - they are miracles, nothing more, nothing less. Miracles DO run contrary to scientific regularities. What CAN be examined, substantiated and measured are the reactions of those people who were witnesses to the miracle.
Part 2: When the Bible describes events that took place such as Jesus turning water into wine - they are exactly that - they are miracles, nothing more, nothing less. Miracles DO run contrary to scientific regularities. What CAN be examined, substantiated and measured are the reactions of those people who were witnesses to the miracle.
If God restored the fullness of the gospel to the earth through Joseph Smith then "that would be something quite extraordinary." This can't be scientifically measured. "What CAN be examined, substantiated and measured are the reactions of those people who [are] witnesses to the miracle."
But please note that there exists a vast gap between subjective truth and objective truth. I think you'd agree it might be wiser to seek truth from an objective perspective.
No. Lying is not a "Mormon" sin. As a matter of fact
lying is a virtue for Mormons. Joseph Smith was the founder of Moism and was a liar and yet he is considered a martyr. Many LDS leaders followed Joe's example of lying. It is called "lying for the Lard".
Paul Dunn is a recent example. He was disfellowshiped, yet his lies and phoney stories are STILL being sold at Deseret Book!! Go figure.
Church members aren't perfect. I wouldn't let someone who has no impact on me own spiritual salvation impact me. I try to keep the commandments of god.
Then you should have no problem separating those commands from the other malarky of Mormonism, eg., silly underwear, pl. marriage, one earring doctrine and ANYTHING related to the temple.
Too, we are NOT talking about just "members". The P.D. example, and others, are the hierarchy of God's (alleged) only true church; INSTALLED in those paid positions by INSPIRATION.
I'm like you caw, in that I try to obey God. As a result, again like you, I won't let "someone who has no impact on my salvation", influence me. I, UNlike you, left those who tried to impact me, and tendered my resignation from LDS.
hahah "open up your heads mormons so we can wash them and fill in this bullshit!" mormons might be the stupidest people ever, even cavemen were smarter.
Mormons use to believe they were Lamanites (Isrealites), but, since DNA they are scrambling to come up with some rational sounding excuses--screw truth--just make up SOMETHING--kinda like Paul Dunn did. But it's okay as long as it is "faith promoting".
I have read the actual study, it is done very pourly, and leaves out some crucial details, ex. how 95% of the population of the americias died of disease whenthe spanish came over. This study in very onesided, and is neither scientific or sound. Also, other studies show that it is difficult to show relation using DNA as short as 150 years ago.
Helgason, A., Hrafnkelsson, B., Gulcher, J.R., Ward, R., Stefansson, K. "A population-wide coalescent analysis of Icelandic matrilineal and patrilineal genealogies: evidence for a faster evolutionary rate of mtDNA lineages than Y chromosomes." American Journal of Human Genetics 72: 1370-1388 (2003).
have you found any scientific evidence of noah's ark? what about the resurrection? is there any scientific proof that jesus died for your sins? what about moses parting the red sea? what about jesus feeding the multitudes with one loaf of bread. Where's the cold hard evidence? let me tell you, us mormons believe in crazy stuff.
YEP!! So, now tell us how you LDS are different from other Christian religions. If you are no different, then the world doesn't NEED another Christian relig to add to the 10,000 already here.
And if you need to know - we believe that God continues to do spectacular things that can't be proved by science just like in the old days. That's just too hard for the rest of mainstream Christianity to swallow.
Not only that but WHO is telling you that "God is doing something spectacular"? HUMAN BEINGS are feeding you this crap with absolutely NO proof. They say it and you lap it up like a little puppy. Bizarre!
Please don't discredit this information. I've seen people being healed on the spot. I've heard answers to my prayers. I know that God exists, but most of you are too busy being angry to give this any thought.
I, too, have seen healings, my own father was healed. EVERY religion has similar stories. IMO, even Atheists have healing stories to tell. I too believe in a God. But I also believe that he/she/it does not give a rat's ass about denominationalism. Truth IS important.
The latest DNA testing have shown similarities between native american and hebrew DNA. these people have said that there are absolutely no similarities, so how can you believe them?
Awake out of your stupor, Johnny. Murphy did NOT say "no similarities". (See. You hear what you WANT to hear.) He said the similarities don't match the time frame of the BOM. View it again.
If you are going to join a religion make sure that it is what is right with you and God. I don't care what religion you choose, but pray about it. It doesn't matter if someone says that they have physical proof to disprove your religion. Religions are based on faith not science.
Yep. That's what the Catholic's said too--until they ran into Galileo. There are STILL gullible people that actually believe the sun revolves around the earth--they'd make good Mormons.
Lehi and his family are clearly not Jews. They belong to the tribe of Manasseh (Alma 10:3, 1 Nephi 5:14), and married into Ishmael's family, the tribe of Ephraim. These tribes were carried away captive by the Assyrians, and did not contribute greatly to the current genetic mix of the Middle East.
Furthermore, the Middle East is located at the crossroads of three continents, and has seen a great deal of immigration, mixing, and intermarriage. To use modern Middle Eastern DNA as the "standard" against which to measure what Manasseh and Ephraim DNA must have been like 2600 years ago is extraordinarily sloppy science.
Why do they have to limit the search to JUST Ephraim or Manasseh or Judah? There will still be unique markers back to Abraham the father of them all. Israel would cover them all too wouldn't it? So why limit it to finding Jewish markers? Israelite connection to Amerinds would be satisfactory--hell, even a "Middle East" connection would help the LDS cause. So far tho--ZERO!
seinundzeit r u talking bout tattypattys comment? casue ur right , the story of christs life is teh most defendable historic fact, so i think tattypatty should get his facts straight and stop acting like a child
i hope mormons truly come to Christ and get saved casue when science goes against ur "word of God" it really cant b the word fo God,sorry ,but the truth will set u free
And the truth does. But many times everything still needs to be found. How often what is held as a scientific absolute is found not to be absolute?
Result is that it's still too early to be able to take from DNA whether there is or is not lineage for the native americans that hearkens back to Jerusalem.
Then only absolutes are found in ...RELIGION. They have all the answers. The prophet has spoken. You can all go back to sleep now, the leadership has everything under control. No thinking needed.
What the crap are you talking about? I said many of what people hold as absolute is often found not to be.,,, Do you not know how to read/understand? I did not say all, I did not say that only absolutes found in science or absolutes found in religion.
Although many people proabably do believe such.. whether their religion involves prophets or not, however I find that to be a lacking explanation of many I know of in several different religions.
Ah the great God of science! Very laughable. In your world it would seem that God himself must socialise in the scientific circles at MIT to have any credibility! So I suppose we should all forgo keeping the 10 commandments until we can see the actual tablets in the Smithsonian? True religion is revealed religion. In time all truth will align. I just wouldn't jump on every whim of so called science and disregard your faith.
At the same time we won't all jump on the whim of religion and disregard science. Your faith is so great, bm, why don't you come up with SOMETHING USEFUL
to the world instead of allowing science to get all the acolades. Faith should be useful for mankind for something other than finding car keys.
Ko- you are hardly the great guardian of science. Science hardly begins with a temper-tantrum and hate speach and then makes a fantastic stretch of data to say that "science" has now justified his bigotry. Funny how you great respecters of science never acknowledge "science" when is in favor of the LDS position. You have no credibility.
A pedophile who took teenagers as plural wives? Operated a bank scam in Ohio and fled the state to avoid prosecution? A man who claimed to be greater than Jesus? A man who claimed to translate Egyptian to English? A man who was into magic? A Masonic practitioner? Go ahead, fool.
the whole vid gives it more clearley, bu to battleguns:
even if the BOm is only describgin a samll amount of native americans , they stil would b able to find a trace from them also they tested loads of ppl and their conclusion was that the natives are from asia (mostly) (99%) u should try read the bible itself nd i hope u truly accept Jesus as ur saviour
perhaps supposing the right traits for identification are successfully passed on.
Another problem is what is thought to be Isrealite DNA traits that are used to make the comparison- how are they sure they have absolutely the right ones (or all of the right ones for that matter) of people living in isreal around 600 BC... and that such traits are siignificantly different from any other people in other locations o fthe world?
We do believe that Christ is our savior. Our official church name is 'The Church of JESUS CHRIST of latter day saints'. It cant be much clearer than that. Look it up yourself to see if we do beleive in Christ as our saviour [but use CREDIBLE resources]. There is also a genetic thread running through a very small race of N. Amer. that does trace back to the middle east/ europe.
You will give us a cite for this "very small race" won't you? Lemme guess, tho. This "very small" group in N. America are in NYCity--Jewish banking families, right?
This genetic thread can be found in the mountains of Eastern Kentucky. Kentucky is an indian word that means 'a dark and bloody ground' and the BoM describes a bloody war likely to be in that region. And, because the book is a native american text, it has historical credibility.
Then why doesn't BYU teach an "Hebrew origins of Ancient America" in their History Dept? (I already know they teach it in their religion classes--but then they can teach ANYTHING there.)
Actually you are using more mind control than many as they testify of their experience rather telling others that they need to be rid of their evil beliefs (or former beliefs).
Warning to investigators of the LDS org. This video is proof that that the BOM is fake scriptures. You may at this point in time agree after watching this video BUT be warned though, once you join the LDS church and incessant bearing of testimonies daily that " the LDS church is true. BOM is the word of god," you will grow to ignore scientific proofs that Joseph Smith was a con-man . Such is the systematic of mind control used by the LDS org.
Tom Murphy is has zero evidence. He is a liar.
LDS4Life71 6 months ago
Murphy is no anthropologist. he is a liar
LDS4Life71 9 months ago
@LDS4Life71 The perpetuator and tutored liar is you. " Lying for the Lord " Lesson #13 in mormon school.
Are you not told to do whatever the Prophet & general authorities say , even if it is wrong ? Evidence is evil and to read only what is approved ? ( in case your unconverted ) Your taught the only evidence that is credible comes from a feel good sensation ? . all else is evil. Perhaps your happy as a born again Terrestrial kingdom mormon ? bat on oh shinning example.
kramd1 9 months ago
What a bunch of hot air?
LDS4Life71 9 months ago
FAIRLDS.org
for the truth
LDS4Life71 9 months ago
Google Dr. Daniel C. Peterson has totally caught the speaker in this video in his LIES.
Don't believe the lies in this video and read the article by the world scholar of a REAL UNIVERSITY, Dr. Peterson, and not some little communtiy college like the strawman Murphy.
LDS4Life71 10 months ago
@LDS4Life71 Peterson repeatedly, in many videos that claim evidences, draws possible parallels , none of them are factual or scientific or evidence. the series" Book of mormon evidence" that Peterson features in many, have no evidences presented. making a statement to follow Peterson clearly represents another attempt to pass off & perpetuate lies. It is not surprising you are using the word LIES.
kramd1 9 months ago
@kramd1 LIES is all Murphy knows.
LDS4Life71 9 months ago
@LDS4Life71 that's not true. Wherein all you know is name calling and school yard comments. To quote a description of yourself. "The best he can do use circular logic, childish insults ..." How old are you ?
kramd1 9 months ago
@kramd1 So are YOU
LDS4Life71 9 months ago
@LDS4Life71 here's another quote: "you resort to petty name-calling."
kramd1 9 months ago
Wrong again, name calling, childish insults and illogical comments is all you know. Next time you go to church make an appointment with your bishop. Tell him your finding it difficult to be Christ like.
kramd1 9 months ago
Comment removed
LDS4Life71 9 months ago
@LDS4Life71 true to form .
kramd1 9 months ago
Plain and simple Mormonism is bullshit!!!
lividmachine 2 years ago
If you are a person with an LDS background as this video claims.You should know the scriptural reference to the scattered tribes of Israael that were scattered to lands northward(north of Jerusalem). Hello Mongolia is north of Jerusalem! How can you miss something like this? I really find it a bit hard to believe that you didn;t have some grudge against the church or just needed some attention.
Criterionx9 2 years ago
Criterionx9:
If you are a person with an LDS background as this video claims.You should know the scriptural reference to the scattered tribes of Israael that were scattered to lands northward(north of Jerusalem).
Hello Mongolia is north of Jerusalem!
The problem here is that the Asiatic Mongolians who migrated across the Bering Straight were dark skinned long before they arrived in the new world.
Shoots the so-called "curse" of dark skinned "Lamanites" all to hell!!
Outlaw1257 2 years ago
Ok then just go get yourself a sample of Abraham's dna to test against.Get real man are you actually an anthropologist?How can anyone not seee that there might be a little difficulty in getting a good enough historically pertainant sample? You're saying dna doesn't change over generaitons?
Criterionx9 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Watch the Video titled:
"Joseph Smith WASN'T a liar."
by FAQMORMON
accurate movie than this 100% inaccurate depiction of slanderous propaganda.
fairlds . org
GodLovedJosephSmith 3 years ago
I think at this point Smith himself can rise from the dead and tell the world he made it all up and some fools would still be defending the BOM and its lies.
mystynight 3 years ago 9
I invite you to watch the videos:
1. Bible vs. The Book of Mormon, LDS Scholars comments.
2. Book of Mormon, Old World.
3. Book of Mormon Geography, New World
all videos brought by livy111us
CatholicsRantiGods 4 years ago 6
@CatholicsRantiGods I encourage everyone to check out these websites which PROVE, BEYOND DOUBT, that The Book of Mormon is TRUE!!
Foundation for Anthropological Imaginings of Latter Day Saints.
**FAIL.D.S.
Foundation for Omniscient Observations of Latter Day Saints.
**FOOL.D.S.
Society for Historical Imagined Lands of Latter Day Saints
**SHILL.D.S.
CounterCultureLives 1 year ago
@CatholicsRantiGods You are right bro. These anti mormon IDIOTS . THEY won't listen to reasonable answers as they are caught up in their lies.
LDS4Life71 9 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Jesus doesn't want Science or anything to prove the Book of Mormon. He did it intentionally. He wants it proven with Faith alone. It's the ONLY way. Must read it, contemplate it, and then get down on your knees and pray to the father in the name of Christ if it is right and wait for your answer. It's the Only way to know that it's truely ANOTHER TESTIMENT of JESUS CHRIST.
CatholicsRantiGods 4 years ago
Our enmity toward God takes on many labels, such as rebellion, hard-heartedness, stiff-neckedness, unrepentant, puffed up, easily offended, and sign seekers. The proud wish God would agree with them. They aren't interested in changing their opinions to agree with God's.
CatholicsRantiGods 4 years ago
Nice try, AntiCatholicRants!!
If what you are caliming is true, then why is there such abundant, objectively reviewed evidences to support the histrocity of The Bible?? (BTW, I'm not even a Christian!!)
Why does FlimmseyLindsay, FARMS, FAIRLDS, & other LDS Apologists sites keep trying to produce "evidence", if God doesn't want science to prove BoM??
Just another lame cop-out!!
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
AntiCatholicRant:
If as you claim, "Jesus does not want science or anyhhing to prove BoM, then WHY does LDS sanction FARMS, FAIRLDS, and FlimmseyLindsay to churn out their garbage disguised as "evidence" to "prove" BoM??
Outlaw1257 4 years ago 2
There is no simple way to determine the validity of the Book of Mormon by the analysis and comparison of Hebrew and Amerindian DNA. We do not know what ancient Israelite or Nephite/Lamanite DNA looked like and modern Jewish populations may not reflect Israelite ancestry because of intermarriage and conversion over the past few thousand years.
ldspreachmygospel 4 years ago
NOT True, LDSPreach!!
The Lemmba Tribe od Africa clains Hebrew origins, and their DNA supports their claim.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
This comment section is supposed to focus upon The Applicability of DNA to The Book of Mormon.
Now, these Mormon morons can only try to shift the focus to chiasmus, limmericks, & nursery rhymmes.
Clearly, they think that everyone is as stupid as they are!!
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
In it's most basic and elemenary form, Ex: A,B,B,C,B,B,A, these parameters would not figure into the equation. In more complex applications, such as what some people perceive as "Biblical Encoding" they become vital.
Statistics are important because they have much to do with how an hypothosis can be mathematically skewed in toder to support a pre-determined outcome. It is also instrumental in scrutinizing evidence, distinguishimg anacdotal evidience from empirical evidednce.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
As for Political Science, understanding how information is created, presented, the methods by which information is convoluted and distorted plays an intergral role in how the Chiastic Implications of Biblical encoding are interpreted, extrapolated, & desseminated. I'll get back to you with more on thiss a bit later, just very busy right now.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Cont'd TVN: Please consider; exploring LDS with a TRULY open mind CAN and HAS delivered many ex-Mo's to the realm of Apostacy. Dissenting opinions & challenging fundamental LDS beliefs is not welcome in LDS. I speak from personal experience. This CAN & HAS put serious strains on Ex-Mo's w/ family/LDS ties, marraiges, and relationships w/ children/ parents. Consider these matters carefully. I WANT to help U discover the truth; I DO NOT want to harm your family/friend relationships.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
In any event, this subject is SUPPOSED to be about DNA & it's Applicability to BOM. I know how desperate you are to change the subject. your beliefs are riddled with lies and deceit!!
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
TVN; Sorry, I never claimed to be the best typist. Yes, you are correct; you DON'T know where I'm going with mathematics and polls. The REASON you don't know is that you are more wrapped up in clever ideas and warm fuzzy feelings than you are about truth and facts..
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Correct, I dont know where you're going with mathematics and polls in relation to chiasmus. but if you would explain it to me i would.
tvn66 4 years ago
On one hand, I'd be happy t do it, though it would have to be via P.M.;the 500char. limit here does not make it practical. On the other hand, if your mind is not open to critical thinking and analysis, it would go straight over your head; tou would be unable to comprehend it.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
TVN;RE: your respone; Hane you ever studued statistics in college?? If you have not, you'll need to start learning the basics. You will not understand the parameters for discussion without it, and, with no sarcasm intended, warm, fuzzy feelings will not help you discover the truth here.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
TVN: BTW, it you really want to committ to studying this issue in depth, it would also help if yoou have some background in political science.
Now, I know that we've had our differences in the past; we still hold diametricaly opposite views her. At the same time, any student who studues statistics, ploitical science, or philosophy without a mind that is open to critical analysis, and facing the fact that he is/may be/could be wrong is an "F" waiting to be handed out.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Right, I know about statistics and polls and some political science, I'm just not seeing how it relates to the subject chiasmus in the BOM
cmurd7 4 years ago
I dont know much about these subjects, but I dont SEE where they connect with BoM chiasmus either. I'm not saying they dont, I've just never heard of it. and yeah, that would be cool if you would PM me. thanks.
tvn66 4 years ago
Here is another dirty little secret that The Mormons will not tell you, although they CLAIM to hold the exclusive truth!! You can save a ton of money on your car insurance by swithching to GEICO!! No need to be LDS; it's so easy, a CAVEMAN could do it!!
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Another thing, Cmurd7! You keep bringing up the plates...of course, JS never used the plates, as LDS suggest. He translated the non-existant plated by staring at a rock inside his hat.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Since the LDS Minions are so focused upon Chiasmi and word choiced, I just spent some time reading Lindsay's opinions are riddled with qualifiers, as "might be, could be, is plausible, may indicate....look at The Bible, look at the histrocity, the anthropology, the metalurgy, the landscape, the animals, the agriculture, the archeology, and these qualifiers become unneccessary... look at BOM, and the qualifiers are all you have to go on.. this, from the most correct book on Earth??"
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
After sincere prayer, I must apologize to all TBM's for not understanding the truth. I prayed fervently, and asked God to tell me if Joseph Smith was a true Spiritual Prophet, or a False Prophet. "Heavenly Father, WAS JS A TRUE MAN OF THE SPIRIT??" God spoke:"Yes JS WAS a true man of The Spirits". "What kind of Spirits", I asked?? Spirits of Heaven, or The Celestial Kingdom?" "No, Outlaw, not those Spirits!" "Then WHAT KIND of Spirits?" I asked. God Spoke:"Try DISTILLED Spirits"
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Arch, once again you engage in deception, obfuscations, and convolutions to support your stand. I NEVER mentioned Smithsonian and Chiasmu; I stated that Smithsonian has publicly stated that there is NO archeological or anthropological evidence to support BOM. According to CNN.con, the Lemba's genetic connections to The Isrealites dates back 2500yrs, not 1000 as you claim. Seriously, do you have ANY credible sources to back you up?? Lindsay?? FAIRS?? FARMS?? ROFLMAO
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
alright "outlaw" since you're such an expert in the field of...anti-mormonism? why dont you go read some of the points lindsay makes and try to refute them...
tvn66 4 years ago
I've read Lindsay's writtings extensively, and will be glad to refute his writtings; any particular area of interest you wish to examine?? DNA?? The Pappyrris?? Linguistics??(as in "Reformed Egyptian"??) Agronomy?? Zoology?? Demographics?? Metalurgy?? Be ready for meat instead of milk!! And while I'm doing that, I know that we will welcome your providing credible evidence to back up BOM!!
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
BTW, tvn66!! I've been working on my research re; Lindsay, FARMS & FAIR, hope you can help me out. God sent a Spirit; African American with Hebrew Beliefs (Sammy Davis Jr) He conducted mt to a convenience store wall with street gang graffiti, and told me that the writtings are in a language called "Reformed Ebonics". I have a nice hat, but I need a Seer Stone. You wouldn't happen to have a spare one, would you??
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Okay, you still havent answered archileach about chiasmus.. lets see, Joseph Smith was heavily criticized for describing the records as being engraven upon metal plates. nowadays, we know that this was a common practice around the middle east around 600 BC, especially for religious writings...
cmurd7 4 years ago
Leach's mention of chiasmus was nothing but a lame diversionary tactic to deflect his inability to address this points that I made, and provide evidence to support his claim. Chiasmus was not even mentioned until I mentioned The Smithsonian, nor have you offered anthing to rebutt the points I've made.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Cmurd7; Re: records engraven on metal plates, this is a periphreal issue that I never mentioned. Both you & Leach are masters of LDS deceptions & convolutions. Unable to rebutt the points Ive made, you try to divert the focus into the realms of metal plates (JS claimed they were gold; too heavy to carry)and chiasmus. LDS trained you two very well.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Last I checked gold is a metal. was he not heavily criticized for claiming this? and now, it is known as a common practice of the time. and what claims have you made? nothing but broad statements. lets start with one. zoology, perhaps.
cmurd7 4 years ago
Gold is a metal?? That was never disputed by me. Too heavy for Smith to carry?? Yes!! Especially since Smith once claimed to have run with them!! Zooology... Horses?? Sheep?? Goats?? Before the 1600's?? Oats?? Wheat?? Barley?? Olives?? Nope!! Not by any credible source!! Bring me something from Smithsonian, or National Geographic, with them supporting your claims...won't happen!
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Once again, Cmurd7, you attempt to engage in diversion and deception. I really don't give a kangaroo's ass if the plates were made of gold, some other metal, or cardboard. I do remind you that Smith changed his story 9 different times, and that his claim that the plated were gold is dubious because they would have been too heavy to carry.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
wow, where should we start? perhaps chiasmus is a good one....
tvn66 4 years ago
So, now you would have us believe that the validity of BOM rests in JS's ability to engage in a play on words??? You consider that to be "evidence"?? Never mind that your geography is wrong, the zoology is all wrong, the archeology is wrong....Smith was capable of using Chiasmus in his writting style, therefore BOM is valid?? Dude, did you go to High School, or go to school high??
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
yes, chiasmus,therefore the BOM is valid. it is an ancient writing style not studied in the bible until the late 1820's (In europe) mid 1830's in US. and not recognized in the BOM until 1967. JS didnt know about it!
tvn66 4 years ago
TVN66: Get REal. Chiasmus involves a play on word, such as the one I posed earlier. "Did you go to HIGH SCHOOL?? Or did you go to SCHOOL HIGH??? GEEEE! There's a little Chiasmus for you... makes me clever, but not a prophet. Once again, you want to play this moronic game of "Milk before met", "Answer the question I SHOULD have asked", evade and convolute the issue. The Bible is wroght with solid proof of authenticity. The BOM is not. (will continue)
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
As far as what Smith didn't know about, he was clever enough to conjure up "Reformed Egyptian", use it to concoct a fabricated translation of The Pappyrris, and Kinderhook Plates, figuring his followers were to stupid to know that no such language EVER existed. Of course, Liguistic Experts and Egyptologists would later expose his fraud. The Bible??? Very solid historical, demographic, physiological, anthropologic, and archeological PROOF of it's validity and Truthfullness. BOM??? Zilch!!
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
So, now, you are left to hang your feeble minded hopes on Chiasmus?? Smith's clever play on words?? Hey, Smith had quite an immagination, no one could rationally argue otherwise. So, his ability to create pllays on words isn't surprising, but it does not prove the authenticity of BOM either. Next lesson will be what?? LDS Numerology?? TVN66, if you and Lindsay are the best things LDS can offer, then the "Truth Deficiency" problems facing LDS will only continue to fester!!
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
No, its not a play on words, its a style of writing found in ancient texts. it can be a whole chapter in some cases.
tvn66 4 years ago
No, its not a play on words, its a style of writing found in ancient texts. it can be a whole chapter in some cases.
tvn66 4 years ago
Look, I dont have the answers for all of your questions on the BOM, just like neither of us have all the answers for a lot of people's questions about the Bible. but i KNOW they are both true and nothing you tell me is going to change that.
tvn66 4 years ago
TVN666, if you do not have all of the answers, then how can you claim to "know" that BOM is true?? As far as your Mobot mind is concerned, all you are really saying is that your mind is made up, and you'd rather not be bothered by such trivial matters as fact and truth. Name me so mich as ONE credible scholar wh sees chiasmi as lending credibility to BOM.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Tvn666: Don't have the answers to ALL of my ?'s re: BOM?? Try "Don't have ANY truthfull answers". I speaking of FACTS not cleaver plays on words, or the warm, fuzzy feelings that you confuse with the truth.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
TVN, go study Chiasma in more depth. The propagators use a technique called "Question Me An Answer". Much as statisticians and poll takers begin with a pre-determined outcome, then structure their findings to support their predetermined outcomes, proponents of Chiasmi work in the same fashion. In Mathematics, math problems are structured around the final answer. With Chiasma, the same thing occurrs.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Go take a few courses in statistics, then come try to support this "Chiasm" flim-flammery. Don't have ALL the answers?? Dude; You don't have ANY answers!!
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
dude do you even no what "chiasmus" is? first of all, "chiasma" is where two chromatids come together in a cell. no idea what "chiasm" is. "Chiasmus" is a somewhat poetic style of writing found in ancient texts (Bible for one, BOM for another). and I dont know where you're trying to go with mathematics and polls..
tvn66 4 years ago
dude do you even no what "chiasmus" is? first of all, "chiasma" is where two chromatids come together in a cell. no idea what "chiasm" is. "Chiasmus" is a somewhat poetic style of writing found in ancient texts (Bible for one, BOM for another). and I dont know where you're trying to go with mathematics and polls..
tvn66 4 years ago
Hey, TVN: By jove, you are correct afterall!! I just found a websight that proves EVERYTHING you said is the absolute TRUTH!!! Check out "Living Proof; Joseph smith's Newly Discovered Collection of LDS Chiasmus, Numerology, LDS Limmericks, and Nursery Rhymes"!!
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Sure!! And why don't you get busy showing us some solid evidence to back up your BOM claims, as well?? Man if Lindsay is the best apologist LDS has, then LDS is in serious trouble!!
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
Isn't this a farce? Let's review, no group has yet been identified as being ancient Israelites of 600 BC, so how can DNA prove that native Americans are or are not related? Big problem. All this faux analysis shows is that if anyone thought Mormonism could be proved or disproved by appealing to DNA, they were wrong. DNA geneology databases that are currently being populated MAY one day START to better identify ancient peoples, but as of now they are still in their infancy.
archileach 4 years ago
Thomas demanded proof, and the Savior was constantly accosted by the call of the wicked to provide them proof and "show them a sign". The Savior said: "A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas." Why would I want to prove anything to you? What are you pathetic anti-mormons worthy to receive? Show me the group of Jews you've identified from 600 BC. Opps, you can't.
archileach 4 years ago
Oh, REALLY??? Guess you've never heard of The Lemba Tribe!!
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
"Guess you've never heard of The Lemba Tribe!!" Yes, I'm well aware of them, how about you?? Care to give us a date on them? Do they date back 2600 years ago? LOL. No, they're actually irrelevant in this analysis.
archileach 4 years ago
Actuallt, The Lemba Tribe's genetic conections DO go back about 2500 yrs. There is absolutely NOTHING in The Dead Sea Scrolls that supports BOM. As far as the other "evidences" are concerned, no credible group of experts supports LDS claims. The Smithsonian has no axes to grind here, but they have been very clear on their position; nothing in this hemisphere supports BOM or LDS.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
So "The Smithsonian" has commented on Chaismus? No, don't blame them for your ignorance. Google it, and don't talk about matters you know nothing about. BTW, the Lemda go back only a little more than a thousand years.
archileach 4 years ago
nashaunconwell, so the Bible has been proven? Have you also found the name of Moses among Egyptian writings? No? There are many evidences given to the faithful. Still, proving Himself through physical evidence is not the method God uses to bring people to him. The Holy spirit is the means he gives us for this. "You receive no witness until after the trial of your faith".
archileach 4 years ago
Wrong: If you look at The Crucifixion, there IS scientific verification. The events described entailed details that pertain to Human anatomy and physiology; details that were not scientifically understood at that time. (ex." the clear fluid that seeped from jesus's body at his death.)There is an abundance of evidence within the realms of archeology, anthropology, metalurgy, and zoology that attest to the accuracy of The Bible; yet, there is NO credible evidence to support the B.O.M.'s claims.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
The Bible is a collection of writings through thousands of years. Proof for one event doesn't give credibility for another. And there is plenty of evidence to support the BOM, if you would take the time to look for it.
tvn66 4 years ago
No, there is no CREDIBLE evidence. Your reply is quite common; disagree, but offer nothing of any substance to back your claims. Ever heard of The Dead Sea Scrolls??? Very compelling documentation to support the Bible.
BOM?? The Pappyrrus, The Kinderhook Plates?? JS's conflicting stories?? Get real!!
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
read up on Jeff Lindsay's writings on the BOM. I believe the Bible is true, but not because of the dead sea scrolls. they just prove it hasnt changed much, not that there was a flood that covered the earth, water can be turned to wine, etc.
tvn66 4 years ago
Jeff Lindsay is hardly what could be called a credible source. I've read up on Lindsay; His writtings are filled with qualifiers such as plausible, could have been, may be, might be...there is a plethora of evidence to support events in The Bible; in BOM, thre is absolutely none.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
I didnt say he was the say all and end all of the topic. i meant that he makes some very good points. a lot of which i havent seen anyone try to refute.
tvn66 4 years ago
"Ever heard of The Dead Sea Scrolls???" Yes, they have something in common with the Holy Bible and the Book of Mormon that you're obviously unaware of... a Chiasmic writing style that is Hebrew in origion. Look into it, and then tell us why the greatest Chiasmus ever found is in the Book of Mormon. There are many other evidences, but your bias would make you reject any evidences presented.
archileach 4 years ago
Honesty is paramount in science, and sins of omission are often career-destroying events. This is probably the most devastating problem for Tom, who has previously accepted himself as a crusader comparable to Galileo. God complexes are so out of vogue among true scientists today. However, Tom hasn't caught on to this yet. Ego has never eluded this subjective researcher.
archileach 4 years ago
1 question: People can prove the sights, language, metalurgy in the books of the bible, however none can be found in the book of Mormon the corner of your religion and the only true book. In fact F.A.R.M.S has been set up for that purpose. Why do you beleive in a prophet that told lies in the book of Abraham, how he practised magic with the"Urim Thumim" (Seer Stone which was forbidden by Yahweh or Jehovah?
nashaunconwell 4 years ago
Third, is refuting the links that have recently been discovered tying Native Americans and Jewish peoples to each other. Fourth, is in acknowledging his own inadequacy for this task, and his own bias so overwhelmingly exhibited in his previous papers, speeches, and works. Fifth, is regaining credibility by being honest in presenting the known supportive and non-supportive evidence on the subject.
archileach 4 years ago
Tom Murphy has insurmountable problems to overcome in using DNA analysis to disprove the Book of Mormon. First and foremost is the problem of using DNA analysis in its present state of scientific capability to correctly extrapolate results with any significant meaning. Second, is specifying two representative groups that will allow conclusive proof that Book of Mormon people were not ancient Israelites.
archileach 4 years ago
I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet...When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go." (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409)
nashaunconwell 4 years ago
Where is your POSITIVE proof that THERE WERE ancient Israelites in Amer.? The scientific community has no problem with the present state of DNA reliability. Only FSRMS/FAIR and Jeff Lindsay have a problem with it. Guarenteed that if DNA in it's "present state" DID find Israelite DNA, all of a sudden you would be extoling to high heaven, the virtues of the advanced DNA processes.
sAME2U22 4 years ago
Oh oh, looks like an antiMormon fanatic has latched onto my criticisms and wants to rumble. Wouldn't it be nice if youtube would let me post more than 500 words so I could do this justice? I love spanking faux-scientist types like DamnMe2L who think they have something more than pseudoscience here.
archileach 4 years ago
So far we've heard nothing but ad hominum from you, leach. If you have something to contribute, scholar that you want us to believe you are, write a paper on your objections to Thomas's findings, have it peer reviewed and submit it for publication--ahh, in a REAL
Scientific journal. You can even make it more than 500 words since youtube is such a stumbling block for you. Only blowhards need more than 500.
DangMe2L 4 years ago
Any more than 500 would bore everyone to tears, leach, if what you've posted so far is any indication--nothing but baseless diatribe, which is also proof of who the REAL "fanatic" is. Mormonism is toast, leach.
You'd be better served to go back to your boring life in stead of getting your garmies in a twist here.
DangMe2L 4 years ago
The luxury that religion has, is that it doesnt need any proof. It a belief. I could form a religion that says we all come from Neptune 1000 years ago, and I wouldnt have to proove it.
sswite 4 years ago
Mormons would call your claims stupid, while at the same time holding to equally bizzaro claims, yet totally unable to make the connection that THEIR claims ALSO sound crazy. It is truly amazing!
DangMe2L 4 years ago
It's such a farce hearing Tom say "as a Mormon". He's a Mormon who hasn't attended his own church for over 10 years, and who has built his career on bringing it down. The only reason he hasn't withdrawn his Church membership is because he knows it will kill his credibility in his anti-Mormon research. It's sad that Edmunds community college has allowed him to use anti-Mormon topics for his theses and doctoral research. This looks pretty hokey an a professional resume as an anthropologist.
archileach 4 years ago
1. TM--Mormon Scholar. MormonISM scholar? Tom makes no claim to that. Is he a Mormon? Yes. Is he a scholar? Yes.(at least as much as is Lindsay is a "scholar".)
2. TM's "career" to distroy LDS. Evidence(s)?
3. How will "withdrawal from LDS" impact his credibility?
4. Anti-Mormon topics for his "thesis". How is challenging the outrageous LDS claim of Hebrews inhabiting ancient America considered "anti" anything but the claim itself? THAT seems "hokey", no?
DangMe2L 4 years ago
Tommy's theory has fallen flat in the last few years, but he doesn't admit this. He doesn't admit that there's no meaningful mtDNA homology among modern jews, or that, due to its recent origin, internal controls of the Lemba aren't applicable to Book of Mormon groups, or that Cohen priests aren't expected to have been among Lehi's ancestry. He doesn't admit the presence of a founding Y-chromosome haplotype present among Jewish communities worldwide AND in Native Americans at a high frequency.
archileach 4 years ago
1. "fallen flat". Explain, with verifications from the scientific community.
2."Limba" not applicable. Give us the science to support that.
3. Give science showing no connection of "Cohen Priests" to Israelite lineage (as Lehi was).
4. Y-chrom. connection to Jews AND Amerinds. The science for that assertion, please.
DangMe2L 4 years ago
So funny to see supposed Christians using this guy's flawed theory to attack Mormons. Do you really believe his story that Native Americans migrated from Asia 10,000 to 35,000 years ago on a land bridge? And his belief that DNA proves that humans and monkeys had a common ancestor about 4 Million years ago? Thanks for the "science lesson" though.
archileach 4 years ago
arch. You are the one making unsubstantiated claims here RE: Thomas. Lets see the refutations of Thomas' research. Hint: FAIR/FARMS/Lindsay are, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES, considered science--not even PSEUDO-science as they are TOTALLY biased LDS apologists.
DangMe2L 4 years ago
Just a couple points, leach.
1. "flawed theory". How so? References (outside of FAIR/FARMS?Lindsay)
2. Ancient Amerinds migrations. There were 3 other scientists you did not mention in video, 1 non-LDS, who concur with "Tommy".
3. Humans all related. Is this not what LDS teaches?
Noah would be the common ancestor of all humans, right?
4. Even Encyclopedias agree as to origins and dates of Asian Migrations to America.
DangMe2L 4 years ago
If you're going to use science to disprove religion, you might want to look at your own beliefs. Show me some scientific evidence that it is possible to turn water in to wine, or part the red sea, or heal a blind man by telling him to put clay in his eyes and then go wash it out, etc. hmmmm, seems like science isn't the answer my friend.
cmurd7 5 years ago
Part 1: Your reasoning is fallible, it's almost lazy thinking: the idea of miracles is exactly what it is. If you were witness to a pig which all of a sudden, flew in the air for which 'science' cannot explain, then that would be something quite extraordinary.
nathanielmacrae 4 years ago
Part 2: When the Bible describes events that took place such as Jesus turning water into wine - they are exactly that - they are miracles, nothing more, nothing less. Miracles DO run contrary to scientific regularities. What CAN be examined, substantiated and measured are the reactions of those people who were witnesses to the miracle.
nathanielmacrae 4 years ago
Part 2: When the Bible describes events that took place such as Jesus turning water into wine - they are exactly that - they are miracles, nothing more, nothing less. Miracles DO run contrary to scientific regularities. What CAN be examined, substantiated and measured are the reactions of those people who were witnesses to the miracle.
nathanielmacrae 4 years ago
If God restored the fullness of the gospel to the earth through Joseph Smith then "that would be something quite extraordinary." This can't be scientifically measured. "What CAN be examined, substantiated and measured are the reactions of those people who [are] witnesses to the miracle."
cmurd7 4 years ago
cmurd7: absolutely. I couldn't agree more.
But please note that there exists a vast gap between subjective truth and objective truth. I think you'd agree it might be wiser to seek truth from an objective perspective.
nathanielmacrae 4 years ago
yes, but in religion, mormonism or other, there are places where objective truth doesn't exist.
cmurd7 4 years ago
you aren't a Mormon but your screen name is ELDERdjsmith. Isn;t lying a Mormon sin phony?
Romanfeeser 5 years ago
No. Lying is not a "Mormon" sin. As a matter of fact
lying is a virtue for Mormons. Joseph Smith was the founder of Moism and was a liar and yet he is considered a martyr. Many LDS leaders followed Joe's example of lying. It is called "lying for the Lard".
Paul Dunn is a recent example. He was disfellowshiped, yet his lies and phoney stories are STILL being sold at Deseret Book!! Go figure.
DangMe2L 5 years ago
Church members aren't perfect. I wouldn't let someone who has no impact on me own spiritual salvation impact me. I try to keep the commandments of god.
cawadsworth 5 years ago
Then you should have no problem separating those commands from the other malarky of Mormonism, eg., silly underwear, pl. marriage, one earring doctrine and ANYTHING related to the temple.
DangMe2L 5 years ago
Too, we are NOT talking about just "members". The P.D. example, and others, are the hierarchy of God's (alleged) only true church; INSTALLED in those paid positions by INSPIRATION.
I'm like you caw, in that I try to obey God. As a result, again like you, I won't let "someone who has no impact on my salvation", influence me. I, UNlike you, left those who tried to impact me, and tendered my resignation from LDS.
DangMe2L 5 years ago
I am no mormon, but wow this guy is lame. man get a life. he is probably a mormon that got kicked out for being gay.
elderdjsmith 5 years ago
No one BUT a Mormon would come up with something so ridiculous.
DangMe2L 5 years ago
hahah "open up your heads mormons so we can wash them and fill in this bullshit!" mormons might be the stupidest people ever, even cavemen were smarter.
armyman14 5 years ago
I thought the Lamanites were supposed to be the South Americans.
davehead3 5 years ago
Mormons use to believe they were Lamanites (Isrealites), but, since DNA they are scrambling to come up with some rational sounding excuses--screw truth--just make up SOMETHING--kinda like Paul Dunn did. But it's okay as long as it is "faith promoting".
DangMe2L 5 years ago
I have read the actual study, it is done very pourly, and leaves out some crucial details, ex. how 95% of the population of the americias died of disease whenthe spanish came over. This study in very onesided, and is neither scientific or sound. Also, other studies show that it is difficult to show relation using DNA as short as 150 years ago.
cawadsworth 5 years ago
Please give us a link to that "study", cawads. If it come from BYU, forget it.
DangMe2L 5 years ago
Helgason, A., Hrafnkelsson, B., Gulcher, J.R., Ward, R., Stefansson, K. "A population-wide coalescent analysis of Icelandic matrilineal and patrilineal genealogies: evidence for a faster evolutionary rate of mtDNA lineages than Y chromosomes." American Journal of Human Genetics 72: 1370-1388 (2003).
cawadsworth 5 years ago
How does "Icelandic" geneologies relate to the Lamanites/Isrealites? Do you have a link to that study?
DangMe2L 5 years ago
this dude needs to stick to judging american idol.
covertjapan 5 years ago
all that jazz about the neefites, plefites and beophites is total BS and has zero corroboration from any facts.
priceooo 5 years ago
have you found any scientific evidence of noah's ark? what about the resurrection? is there any scientific proof that jesus died for your sins? what about moses parting the red sea? what about jesus feeding the multitudes with one loaf of bread. Where's the cold hard evidence? let me tell you, us mormons believe in crazy stuff.
covertjapan 5 years ago
YEP!! So, now tell us how you LDS are different from other Christian religions. If you are no different, then the world doesn't NEED another Christian relig to add to the 10,000 already here.
KOLOB22 5 years ago
And if you need to know - we believe that God continues to do spectacular things that can't be proved by science just like in the old days. That's just too hard for the rest of mainstream Christianity to swallow.
covertjapan 5 years ago
Then why is it that you are the only one privy to that information? Give us an example.
use2Bslave 5 years ago
Not only that but WHO is telling you that "God is doing something spectacular"? HUMAN BEINGS are feeding you this crap with absolutely NO proof. They say it and you lap it up like a little puppy. Bizarre!
DangMe2L 5 years ago
Please don't discredit this information. I've seen people being healed on the spot. I've heard answers to my prayers. I know that God exists, but most of you are too busy being angry to give this any thought.
davehead3 5 years ago
I, too, have seen healings, my own father was healed. EVERY religion has similar stories. IMO, even Atheists have healing stories to tell. I too believe in a God. But I also believe that he/she/it does not give a rat's ass about denominationalism. Truth IS important.
DangMe2L 5 years ago
The latest DNA testing have shown similarities between native american and hebrew DNA. these people have said that there are absolutely no similarities, so how can you believe them?
johnny2tows 5 years ago
Awake out of your stupor, Johnny. Murphy did NOT say "no similarities". (See. You hear what you WANT to hear.) He said the similarities don't match the time frame of the BOM. View it again.
KOLOB22 5 years ago
oh.... the wisdom of the wise
jetrovay 5 years ago
Oh...the vacuousness, of the simple minded.
DangMe2L 5 years ago
If you are going to join a religion make sure that it is what is right with you and God. I don't care what religion you choose, but pray about it. It doesn't matter if someone says that they have physical proof to disprove your religion. Religions are based on faith not science.
weedwod 5 years ago
Yep. That's what the Catholic's said too--until they ran into Galileo. There are STILL gullible people that actually believe the sun revolves around the earth--they'd make good Mormons.
DangMe2L 5 years ago
Lehi and his family are clearly not Jews. They belong to the tribe of Manasseh (Alma 10:3, 1 Nephi 5:14), and married into Ishmael's family, the tribe of Ephraim. These tribes were carried away captive by the Assyrians, and did not contribute greatly to the current genetic mix of the Middle East.
weedwod 5 years ago
You don't have a consensus. You only have people who hate the church and former disgruntled members. This is such biased hogwash!
weedwod 5 years ago
Furthermore, the Middle East is located at the crossroads of three continents, and has seen a great deal of immigration, mixing, and intermarriage. To use modern Middle Eastern DNA as the "standard" against which to measure what Manasseh and Ephraim DNA must have been like 2600 years ago is extraordinarily sloppy science.
weedwod 5 years ago
Why do they have to limit the search to JUST Ephraim or Manasseh or Judah? There will still be unique markers back to Abraham the father of them all. Israel would cover them all too wouldn't it? So why limit it to finding Jewish markers? Israelite connection to Amerinds would be satisfactory--hell, even a "Middle East" connection would help the LDS cause. So far tho--ZERO!
DangMe2L 5 years ago
the case of chirst is the most defendable historic fact so i dnt know where ur getting faireytale from.
robwhelan1 5 years ago
seinundzeit r u talking bout tattypattys comment? casue ur right , the story of christs life is teh most defendable historic fact, so i think tattypatty should get his facts straight and stop acting like a child
robwhelan1 5 years ago
Ignorance never gives a reason.
SeinUndZeit 5 years ago
HAHA. I love how you guys argue about whose fucking fairytale is 'true'. You are a brainwashed bunch of fuckfaces.
It's just sad that all of us 'heathens' are fucked because the religious douchebags of the world can't stop arguing over who possesses the 'truth'.
tattypatty 5 years ago
Ya, a great intelligent example of the athiest side here.
Lightcycle 5 years ago
i hope mormons truly come to Christ and get saved casue when science goes against ur "word of God" it really cant b the word fo God,sorry ,but the truth will set u free
robwhelan1 5 years ago
And the truth does. But many times everything still needs to be found. How often what is held as a scientific absolute is found not to be absolute?
Result is that it's still too early to be able to take from DNA whether there is or is not lineage for the native americans that hearkens back to Jerusalem.
Lightcycle 5 years ago
Then only absolutes are found in ...RELIGION. They have all the answers. The prophet has spoken. You can all go back to sleep now, the leadership has everything under control. No thinking needed.
KOLOB22 5 years ago
What the crap are you talking about? I said many of what people hold as absolute is often found not to be.,,, Do you not know how to read/understand? I did not say all, I did not say that only absolutes found in science or absolutes found in religion.
Although many people proabably do believe such.. whether their religion involves prophets or not, however I find that to be a lacking explanation of many I know of in several different religions.
Lightcycle 5 years ago
I'm only repeating what Prophets and Apostles (modern day) have said, "The thinking has been done".
KOLOB22 5 years ago
Good for you. But I wasn't and have not been talking about prophets and apostles.
Lightcycle 5 years ago
Ah the great God of science! Very laughable. In your world it would seem that God himself must socialise in the scientific circles at MIT to have any credibility! So I suppose we should all forgo keeping the 10 commandments until we can see the actual tablets in the Smithsonian? True religion is revealed religion. In time all truth will align. I just wouldn't jump on every whim of so called science and disregard your faith.
bryanmonson 5 years ago
At the same time we won't all jump on the whim of religion and disregard science. Your faith is so great, bm, why don't you come up with SOMETHING USEFUL
to the world instead of allowing science to get all the acolades. Faith should be useful for mankind for something other than finding car keys.
KOLOB22 5 years ago
Ko- you are hardly the great guardian of science. Science hardly begins with a temper-tantrum and hate speach and then makes a fantastic stretch of data to say that "science" has now justified his bigotry. Funny how you great respecters of science never acknowledge "science" when is in favor of the LDS position. You have no credibility.
bryanmonson 5 years ago
Examples of "science" being in favor of the LDS position, please.
DangMe2L 5 years ago
there's plenty if you would take the time to look..
cmurd7 5 years ago
"revealed" to whom?
A pedophile who took teenagers as plural wives? Operated a bank scam in Ohio and fled the state to avoid prosecution? A man who claimed to be greater than Jesus? A man who claimed to translate Egyptian to English? A man who was into magic? A Masonic practitioner? Go ahead, fool.
KOLOB22 5 years ago
I hope you anti-christ truly come to christ and realize what your saying sounds like a bunch of silly nonsense.
johnny2tows 5 years ago
That is EXACTLY the effect TRUTH has when one is raised to believe something NOT true.
KOLOB22 5 years ago
the whole vid gives it more clearley, bu to battleguns:
even if the BOm is only describgin a samll amount of native americans , they stil would b able to find a trace from them also they tested loads of ppl and their conclusion was that the natives are from asia (mostly) (99%) u should try read the bible itself nd i hope u truly accept Jesus as ur saviour
robwhelan1 5 years ago
perhaps supposing the right traits for identification are successfully passed on.
Another problem is what is thought to be Isrealite DNA traits that are used to make the comparison- how are they sure they have absolutely the right ones (or all of the right ones for that matter) of people living in isreal around 600 BC... and that such traits are siignificantly different from any other people in other locations o fthe world?
Lightcycle 5 years ago
We do believe that Christ is our savior. Our official church name is 'The Church of JESUS CHRIST of latter day saints'. It cant be much clearer than that. Look it up yourself to see if we do beleive in Christ as our saviour [but use CREDIBLE resources]. There is also a genetic thread running through a very small race of N. Amer. that does trace back to the middle east/ europe.
fluteguy18 5 years ago
You will give us a cite for this "very small race" won't you? Lemme guess, tho. This "very small" group in N. America are in NYCity--Jewish banking families, right?
KOLOB22 5 years ago
This genetic thread can be found in the mountains of Eastern Kentucky. Kentucky is an indian word that means 'a dark and bloody ground' and the BoM describes a bloody war likely to be in that region. And, because the book is a native american text, it has historical credibility.
fluteguy18 5 years ago
Then why doesn't BYU teach an "Hebrew origins of Ancient America" in their History Dept? (I already know they teach it in their religion classes--but then they can teach ANYTHING there.)
KOLOB22 5 years ago
What are your credentials? Education? Field experience as an "Mormon Anthropologist?"
HawkerDude 5 years ago
Why? We have this PHD in this video and several others
with the same conclusions. How many do you need? Don't count those at BYU--they'd be fired if they dared agree with "gentile" scientists!
DangMe2L 5 years ago
Actually you are using more mind control than many as they testify of their experience rather telling others that they need to be rid of their evil beliefs (or former beliefs).
Lightcycle 5 years ago
Warning to investigators of the LDS org. This video is proof that that the BOM is fake scriptures. You may at this point in time agree after watching this video BUT be warned though, once you join the LDS church and incessant bearing of testimonies daily that " the LDS church is true. BOM is the word of god," you will grow to ignore scientific proofs that Joseph Smith was a con-man . Such is the systematic of mind control used by the LDS org.
virtualsing 5 years ago