Human Conceit, Dominionism

[Wordsmith65]

OMG, perfect timing! I just went to BBQ today, and was explaining why I don't eat meat anymore, and I just told everyone, that it was this simple - it was a moral decision, because I could no longer participate in the murder of my fellow beings. I asked them - if aliens landed tomorrow, and decided to eat little humans, and they took your kids (and don't worry, they would 'free-range' them, so they'd have a good life). Would you be OK with your kids being 'slaughtered' the way your lunch was?

[themasteriswatching]

@Wordsmith65 So basically you are saying that those beings that taxonomists consider to be categorically different from you genetically do not fall into what you consider to be a "fellow being". And I wouldn't be OK with aliens eating my "kids", but then again I wouldn't expect them to give a shit, and if they did (they wouldn't), surely beings with intergalactic travel can think of better forms of sustenance than travelling across the universe to eat sapient life, Wordsmith.

[themasteriswatching]

@Wordsmith65 In conclusion your moral reasoning for vegetarianism is still just speciesist, you sounded like a douche, and your thought experiment is irrelevant because humans (i.e. aliens) respond to incentives, not bumper stickers. With regards to diet, humans are no more selfish than any other species on the planet. Vegetarianism has nothing to do with what Sagan is saying.

[Wordsmith65]

@themasteriswatching Oh dear, you really have missed my point entirely, so that would make you the douche! My moral reasoning for vegetarianism is to not kill any being regardless of species - intergalactic or otherwise And sorry, humans are indeed different and more selfish than EVERY other species on the planet - we are the only species who stuff our faces to the point of immobile obesity, and we stockpile more than we need and in the process strip the resources bare.

[blkcpdconure]

If god is everywhere at all times then that means everyone and everything is really god and the perceived differences are just an illusion

[Judas130]

@blkcpdconure then 'god' becomes a synonym we might as well not need.

[blkcpdconure]

@Judas130 I agree. The word 'god' conjures up the image of some old bearded dude on a throne. A better word to use is Tao, in my opinion, but there are many labels that all pretty much mean the same thing.

[MidnightTea7]

So true!

[xephyr1000]

As usual, Sagan's words are profound and resonate with enlightenment.

[MusicMan53100]

My Issue:

When the Bible says "God made man in his image" it means that we are capable of all things that he is (love, forgiveness, etc)- not that we physically look alike. If God had a physical body then he wouldnt be able to be everywhere at all times. Christians (myself included) believe God is alive in all of us, and that explains how he can be everywhere and all knowing. It also says that we are God's fav creation. He created animals but made us in "his image" to be the best "species"

[jereuter01]

@MusicMan53100 Your comment is inconsistent. Your thought process shows conclusively that you continue to cling to an anthropocentric view of existence. Your spiritual paradymn is faulty in the same manner as was religion's historical inability to accept the scientific fact that the Earth revolves around the Sun, that the creatures of the planet including humans are a product of Evolution, that humankind is not central to that process of life.

[MusicMan53100]

@jereuter01 *jaw dropped* You're a fuckin' loony, you know that?

[jereuter01]

@MusicMan53100 At least I got our attention, something that the essence of this video and Carl Sagan's words were unable to do. Not surprising thought given the subject matter.

[MidnightTea7]

@MusicMan53100 It's not just about the form. "The way we think" or "the way we perceive the world" can be also very anthropocentric... In other words, humanity can - and ofter is - very egocentric.

[blkcpdconure]

@MidnightTea7 Like when people say the population of the earth is 7 billion.

[uncleezra1]

RE: What if Powerful Aliens Wanted to "Serve Man"??

Then we would all have been someone's Thanksgiving dinner by now.

[rishi851]

I have done some deep research on this topic and this proves how wrong Christianity is.....anthropocentric way of life is wrong and we followed it and look at our stuation....screwed the planet like a virus.

Biocentrism which has been followed by the oldest beliefs like Hinduism and nature worship by the natives (labelled "pagans" by the christians) would have been the way mankind should have taken and followed.

END CHRISTIANITY TODAY AS WELL AS ISLAM- Yes, it is about religion

[yvell]

@rishi851 Okay move to India.

[Cypherus21]

@rishi851

Rubbish interpretation.

[VollendJatara9Jenny]

@rishi851 I find Anthropocentrism to be REPULSIVE myself. This is the main reason why I am not an Evangelical Christian (unlike my parents).

[DSD1v57BG32]

here this with this music- /watch?v=svwqHhTQC5E&feature=P­layList&p=861A871FFCBEF05F&pla­ynext_from=PL&index=14

[dsalazar19]

biocentrism > anthropocentrism

[VidquestTV]

A great scientist like Carl Sagan how can he get so wrong. Christian faith is a gift and it seems that Carl Sagan's intellect and maybe pride interferred with the Holy Spirit's grace on himself. Carl Sagan is mixing anthoropocentrism with anthropomorphism. Anthropomorphism is found in Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, Hinduism etc. I as a Catholic living within the cradle of civilizations (Mediterranean Sea), we know that God became a human being in order for us to relate with 'Him'.

[DamienZshadow]

@VidquestTV That is still the same concept or arrogance. We, the one species of Human on Earth had the privileged of a messiah to guide us when no other organism does. Why then, 2000 years ago? Why not earlier for the many others of species of humans that inhabited our world before dying out. Why even our planet to be singled out from the billions of other worlds out there without mention to us as if we're the only one? Why not other just as confident religions, why yours?

[yvell]

@DamienZshadow Because humans are hard headed.

[DamienZshadow]

@yvell We'll eventually soften it through persistent humility.

[vgman94]

After reading a lot about Sagan, he seems to be a very intelligent person (Mind you, that I''ve never heard of Sagan before). I agree with many of his points on things. As for the statment of many passengers rather staying home, I, for one, am a very glad and willing passenger. Better than staying in the Dark Ages. AKA, religion.

[Marysue5252]

Save Tasmania is right. We need to go back to that harmony, that humble nomad existence...but we need to curb our numbers drastically, first. Will all psychopaths, murderers, greedy bankers, despots, CIA, CEO billionaires, mercenaries and sadists kindly step off the planet? There! That's MUCH better... Don't we wish that could happen, eh?

[Watchdawg]

@Marysue5252 Do you really think it would make any difference if all criminals were killed today? We have a system which automatically creates new ones, so fuck the whole "going to hell" theory, cause it's environment that shapes people, hence the Bible makes zero sense. Criminals are nothing but products of their environment, none is neither good or bad deep inside, we must cooperate, or WE WILL DIE.

[Marysue5252]

@Watchdawg You're right. I was being facetious. But I do think those who continuously inflict heedless and intentional pain on others need to be jailed--and that includes the greedy, the sadists, etc., etc. And they need to stay there--not get out in a few years to repeat their cruelty. I don't want them treated cruelly in jail, either, so our jails need to be owned by the people (i.e. the government), not privateers who understaff jails so badly that rape/ murder goes on in jail, too.

[atrumira]

Extremely well spoken.

But then no less could ever have been expected from Sagan.

[believersunderground]

sounds like a spin off the A. A. big book ch. 5. Scott (BUG)

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

Oh crap, i did it *again*! I hit Remove instead of Reply. This is getting absurd. Youtube needs a Confirm/Undo. I know many others get bitten by this with the Reply and Remove options right next to each other.

[oceansandshells]

I have no problem seeing myself as equal to a horse. And if someone told me stories like that as a child, it would have been nice. But even horses compete with each other. And humans do to. I could write more, but it could go on forever.

[CieloMarinaris]

I have no problem seeing "davidleealford"="SaveTasmania­" as equal to the Rear of a horse.

[SaveTasmania]

For example the Hawaiian hawk probably caused several dozen birds to become extinct after it gained a foothold in the islands.

What we do know is this, man as hunter-gatherer lived in relative harmony with the planet over hundreds of thousands of years. Agriculture and industrialization,

the two polar opposites to hunting-gathering have quickly brought us to the ecological nightmare that confronts us today.

[SaveTasmania]

Now Journeyman47, to your points. I believe early man did cause extinctions, particularly in vulnerable island fauna such as the Moa. The extinctions in mainland Australia and N.America also coincided with drastic climate changes, but I don't deny some extinctions may have been the result of man's activities specifically hunting.

But, let's put this in context. Other animals caused extinctions of their own. (con't)

[SaveTasmania]

SaveTasmania is an account for davidleealford. I have been blocked from posting under davidleealford. I'm not impressed.

I doubt Carl Sagan would be impressed. This is the worst form of intellectual dishonesty: stifling someone's opinion because you don't agree with it.

There is a lot about me that I'm sure Carl Sagan would approve of. I have advanced degrees in biology with a particular interests in cetacean biology, endangered species and conservation. I have contributed time and ...

con't

[SaveTasmania]

Test

[davidleealford]

Anyone who clicks on your handle will find out you are an extreme hypocrite, driving a Corvette ("MY CAR IS A SILVER CONVERTIBLE CORVETTE. THAT CAR ROCKS. YOU CAN'T CATCH ME, NO ONE CAN.") and keeping several carnivorous dogs.

Oh, and I'm sure Carl Sagan would have been amazed by your purse video.

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

Test. See if you can reply.

[davidleealford]

Ok, here goes...

[stuga]

where did you get this audio?

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

The entire video is from user RayDouble but the audio itself is from the audiobook of "The Pale Blue Dot".

[davidleealford]

YOUR HUMAN CONCEIT is little different than Hitler's; typological, lacking in humility, dismissive of the individual, and unknowing of deep ecology. You're so sure you're right...there is more in the world than in your dreams, child.

[davidleealford]

I have thought about it. And you're right. I'm sure you will extend the same objectivity to yourself. HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THAT?????

[davidleealford]

"it was not until man entered into the picture that the very fine system of checks and balances that nature employs were destroyed." No, you're wrong. Hunters and gatherers lived in relative harmony with Nature for incomprehensible periods of time. It is only in the last blip of the world clock that modern agriculture and industrialism has brought us to the brink of catastrophe. YOU THINK ABOUT THAT!

[journeyman47]

David: think about this: the first Maori made it to New Zealand around 12oo. By 1500 all 11 species of Moa were exctinct. The Maori were hunter-gatherers.

The aborigines arrived in Australia 46,000 years ago, the same time the last fossils of over 60 species of marsupials appear.

They too were hunter-gatherers.

When the Clovis people (hunter-gatherers) spread across North America, another contintent was emptied of its large mammals, including mammoths and giant sloths.

Any questions?

[davidleealford]

"when humans are finally gone, the planet will right itself again"...on that, I will probably agree! But it wasn't hunting and gathering that screwed things up. Au contraire, it was the end of that which did. Let's put blame where blame is due.

[davidleealford]

nursegotrocks and others: we do not need to eat veggies to survive either...i choose to eat veggies just as i choose to eat fish and wild game meat plus other key foods such as nuts and fruits.

btw, I'm a bowhunter, check out my favorite videos (all of 'em) to see how well I fit your hunter stereotype. yeah.

[camino1ca]

Your very impressive. You do not know how to debate and your argument is weak.

[davidleealford]

To continue efforts at walling man off from Nature will only fail, primarily because "there is no free lunch". You're only fooling yourself if you thing vegetarianism is the answer. For starters, it extracts a huge amount of killing and the environmental damage is indexed to the amount of petroKcalories required to produce a given amount of food calories. It is a disturbing situation when the true facts are confronted. Ditto for typical beef production, etc.

(con't)

[davidleealford]

What the remaining time for our species is we know not. We do know that now we are living in a time of rapid extinctions, and that is increasing yearly. My point is not whether other species will survive ultimately, I feel many species will. Rather, the point is our alienation from Nature is a the root of this. You and many others of your philosophy seemingly want to increase this alienation. Unrelenting population growth, industrialism, and modern agriculture are at the root of this. (con't)

[camino1ca]

It was only a matter of time before you used personal attacks. Typical when an actual argument based on reason is absent. You completely do not understand the question and I no longer believe you are capable.

[JamieNov81]

I do eat fish, but it I probably eat it like once every 6 months. I eat fish that would have both fins and scales.

[davidleealford]

Nursegotrocks, fast forward a century or whatever and when we're all eating blue green algae, where will the animals be?

Gone for the most part. Yes, I agree modern humans have brought the planet to the brink. But it was hunter-gatherers who lived in far more harmony with the environment for enormous periods of time. You think about that and what has happened in the blink of an eye since modern agriculture and industrialism.

[davidleealford]

I agree we are not necessarily superior. All species are caught in the web of life and time. But if you think there is a free lunch, you are greatly mistaken. The amount of killing you personally do is easily indexed by the amount of trash you make every day. That is your "gut pile", vegetarian or not. You think about that the next time you "empty the trash." And that's the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

[camino1ca]

You are completely unable to give reasons on ethical grounds for not eating meat. I conceded on the environmental and inhumane keeping practices, but you don't seem to understand that those are arbitrary to the question. There is no one but us who can give us the right to do anything, and other animals are not responsible in any ethical or ecological way as their behavior is much more limited than ours.

I don't expect a reply, you have been unable to answer the question.

[davidleealford]

Well, all ecosystems would collapse if Nature suddenly subtracted death from the equation. Death is Nature's greatest invention. Walt Disney and others of his ilk were Nature haters. You think about that.

[camino1ca]

Bears do not require meat to live and yet they still kill when presented with the opportunity. We can pick and choose animals but it does not favor your argument. I could come up with some arguements about why we should not kill animals on a moral or ethical basis but it seems you cannot. The first thing you have said in your favor is that we have "reason". That is true, but what reason do we have to not kill to eat based on a moral or ethical grounds?

[camino1ca]

You have completely missed the point and continue to evade the question. This relates again to the issue of whether or not it is ethical for another animal to eat another animal. In the same sentence you have said we are not above animals but that we should not eat them.

Can you or can you not answer the question previously posed?

[camino1ca]

Your still missing the point. I concede that factory farming is wrong. Barring factory farming or other inhumane farming methods, what is the moral or ethical issue with consuming an animal? Are humans separate from other animal species somehow making animal consumption wrong, or are we part of the animal kingdom and our consuming an animal is equal to a Tiger consuming an animal?

[camino1ca]

I do not see a parallel with slave keeping and consuming animal flesh. Slaves are people, people are literally equal, and this has been demonstrated genetically. There is not a reasonable basis to presume that one human is "more equal" than another human. Before I continue I know already that it will be impossible on this page to cover all of the details of a huge topic. If you would like to discuss it I would be happy to do so by PM, as I would like to explore it further.

[camino1ca]

By the way I am not disregarding the production issues, but I am asking specifically on the ethical issue of the animal being consumed.

[JamieNov81]

hehe I am trying to figure out if I should get involved. This is too interesting. I don't eat meat because of the Bible. It of course is very much a topic that will get me in trouble. lol pigs are scavengers. Our body is a temple and we don' t reason well and our bodies don't function when we eat the things that keep the earth clean..such as pigs. I think I will leave now and I don't want to sound like a preacher. I'm vegetarian for the biblical reason though.

[davidleealford]

Huh? Have you even read the Bible?

[JamieNov81]

the Bible says not to eat swine.

[davidleealford]

Probably because in those days trichinosis was a problem. Jesus wasn't exactly against eating fish! And also said "take thy bow and bring unto us venison". But as an atheist, I really don't look to the Bible for consistent instruction.

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

Actually, the whole Jesus and "loaves and fishes" thing was a mistranslation. As for the venison, that's a new one of me. Can you cite it?

[camino1ca]

You could just as easily be a meat eater for Biblical reasons. The Bible is not really a good reason to do anything.

[davidleealford]

camino1ca, exactly right!

[JamieNov81]

The Biblical part for me seems to be quite fair and that is just my opinion. People do terrible things in the name of religion so I tend to lean more on the side of atheists who at least have the mind to argue. Anyway, I am one of those people who could debate all day on the Bible, but it isn't worth it if religion gets in the way. I hope I make sense. I probably don't, but that isn't new. :)

[camino1ca]

Those issues still relate to the actual farming of animals, and your singling out beef. As far as starving children goes whether it's one pound of grain on my plate or a steak, that food is still going to me and not starving children. That is an issue of distribution and has nothing to do with the food being produced. The numbers for food that goes to waste are huge. What is the actual ethical problem with the consumption of animals related to the consumption, and not by products of consumption?

[camino1ca]

All of those methods for keeping animals are inhumane, but that does not make eating meat inhumane. There are farms with ethical farming methods. Other animals do not do as we do simply because they cannot. However the way one animal kills another is by no means humane. The sick and young are picked off first, teeth and claws pierce the flesh, and feeding often commences before the prey is dead.

Is there a real reason that eating meat is unethical (barring inhumane farming)?

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

>All of those methods for keeping animals are inhumane,

>but that does not make eating meat inhumane

There were those who argued that owning slaves was acceptable, so long as you treated them humanely.

As for the desire to believe in "ethical farming" of animals, one need not look much farther than HumaneMyth(.)org to start to see problems with such wishful thinking.

Coincidentally, the site is run by people in tiny Ithaca NY, where Carl lived.

[camino1ca]

I do not see where an actual demonstrable issue in relation to ethics has been shown as to why the eating of an animal is wrong. Your paraphrasing above certainly shows that if the keeping methods are inhumane, it can be demonstrated that the end product, the consumption, was achieved through unethical grounds. However what is the actual issue with eating an animal, barring ethical issues with raising them? If you had the opportunity to kill an animal for food, what is the ethical problem?

[longtailrat]

Imagine that they like to eat meat? Of course they would find the most tender and delicious meat to be human baby meat (just like some ethically challenged humans love veal and lamb).

[tokabowla]

@longtailrat Don't pollute such brilliant words w/ your vegan cult propoganda.

[tokabowla]

@longtailrat Don't pollute such brilliant words w/ your vegan cult propaganda.

[askantik]

@longtailrat Why are people who eat veal or lamb any more ethically-challenged that anyone else? Is murdering a human child worse than murdering a human adult?

[DawnAkemi]

Very interesting! I don't think I really understood provincialism quite so profoundly before. And it's not limited to a small province. Americans can, sadly, be quite provincial in our point of view with regard to the whole world. Thanks for the terrific post! :-)

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

Likewase, humans can be just as provincial in how they relate to other species.

[xlioilx]

great video I'm going to try and find a download of this audio book thanks a ton for uploading this

[BlackGuitar1313]

Great video but hard to understand : (

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

Hard to understand? How do you mean?

[shopwreckin]

carl sagan might be too articulate for him/her. he does use a lot of big alex trebek jeopardy words. it's not his/her fault.

[BlackGuitar1313]

"Now imagine that they like to eat meat. What do you think would be the outcome?"

hahha personally I hope these Powerful Aliens love to hunt and they will round up the hunters of the world and use them for "sports" and trophy.. Maybe the Alien would upload them into youtube to show off their "trophy" LOL

[Michigan1985]

Awesome. Carl Sagan lives on.

[SpeakerForrTheDead]

"Modern science has been a voyage into the unknown, with a lesson in humility waiting at every stop; many passengers would rather have stayed home"

Carl scattered eloquent truths like that with such ease.

Shamefully, even now, in the 21st century, many have failed to even get on board.

[glorp896]

Carl snubs the bible's first book as to our very origin, in "god's eyes" (man myth). How refreshing - back then scientists were more afraid of facing religion so openly, but with Dawkins, Shermer and other pop scientists this atheist movement is bolder, and all the better. Thanks to Hitchens also, even though he ain't no scientist, as smart as he is, he certainly could have been...

Provincial, great word, i use it to describe specific religions of time and place, so selfish and narrow...

[11cottrell11]

looking for friends

why cant i see the video mf

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

You need the Adobe Flash Player to view vids on Youtube. I know, proprietary crapware is a PITA.

[ixli]

Can anyone tell me if this is an extract from a book or from a radio interview? I would like to reference some of the quotations here in a dissertation.

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

Sorry for the delayed response.

This is from an audiobook version of "Pale Blue Dot" by Carl Sagan not too long before he died.

[BreadWinner06]

CARL SAGAN WE MISS YOU

[neothomist1275]

And after Xenophenes, philosophical anthropology developed in Greece which, like Christianity, endowed man with a special dignity while imposing limits on him.

This order of things began breaking down centuries ago. Now we are relegated to the unenviable position of the man-ape attempting to be the man-god.

[FireAimReadyWhoops]

"If God is our father, he thought, then Satan must be our cousin..." -M.J.K.?

[wascillywabbit]

I miss Carl Sagan soooo much!. I so love his strong morals and staunch stance on so much in this world which has gone wrong, but also he gave us the way out of it.

[Kisinkona]

Bunnies the true choosen rulers of the earth!

[maurieer]

The human centered conceit that we are created in god`s image.

Only ignorant, arrogant, delusional man could`ve come up with this.

I believe that man created god in man`s image.

This was turned around in the bible to state that god created man in god`s image to make this delusion more believable.

The churches support this delusion to ensure their survival.

Heaven for believers, a fiery hell for non-believers, satan to tempt us, original sin to remind believers that they were born in sin.

[maurieer]

cont...

The second coming to keep the fear of this god delusion and it`s punishment of a fiery hell in the hearts of their flock.

So far, this church instilled fear has worked, enabling the churches to survive.

[dechha1981]

Seems to me, an octopus-like god, like Cthulhu or something, seems WAY more likely than an anthropomorphic god. Theists always insist on blaming everything on athropomorphic beings, when, in fact, when the Scientific truth is discovered, it was almost NEVER done by an anthropomorphic being (unless a monkey did it)

[BipedalHumanoid]

deprovincialise. That's a nice word. Everyone should travel. Experience unfamiliar cultures and stay long enough to understand them... I can guarantee you will leave having understood something new about yourself.

[maurieer]

Great video.

"Now imagine that they like to eat meat. What do you think would be the outcome?"

We would be easy prey. Wouldn`t we?

Just a little humor to the otherwise

complex world we live in.

5+

[Kisinkona]

It would be great if man wasn't at the top of the food chain....it would help the overpopulation problem....

[gazzmatronix]

Here's to our continued deprovincialisation! Carl's brilliantly lucid perspective on the cosmos has inspired me more than anything else.

[ooglebydoogleby]

beutifully reasoned and delivered. thank god i dont believe in theism.

[Katalyzt]

That is one reason I travel; to keep a clear perspective. :O) ★★★★★

Katalyzt

[BoozyBeggar]

Good ole Carl; he can always cheer me up, even when I'm already cheered.

[JaboCelt007]

I like how you put this in the "Pets and Animals" Category. Because we are just animals.

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

Not only that, but Carl was the advisor to the Cornell Students for the Ethical treatment of Animals. When i spoke to his wife, Ann Druyan she said she thought Carl had gotten to the point where he would never buy another leather jacket.

Anyway his remarks here also apply to our attitudes towards other species.

[JaboCelt007]

Thanks for posting this. The words of Carl Sagan have carried me through some of the toughest times of my life and made life worth living. He is a true inspiration.

[ManifestMiasma]

Ditto. He has been a breath of fresh air, and a voice of inspiration for me - even posthumously - when there were none.

[HKragh]

When I listen to this man, it kinda feels like when I was a child, and my father made me believe that everything would be ok. A little pathetic, I know, but he simply just takes me away from the shit hole, that as the earth of today. He makes me believe...hehe...HE makes me believe. In humankind:)

[riversonthemoon]

'Now imagine that they like to eat meat. What do you think would be the outcome?'

Unless DNA is specifically mandated in the laws of physics, I doubt that we would a type of food aliens could eat. I guess if they evolved on an Earth like planet then their chemistry might be similar. But I take your point about asymmetrical power relationships and their impact on moral justification.

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

Upon reflection i suspect that basic biochemistry is the same most places. The laws of physics rule. Literally.

[riversonthemoon]

But can we be sure of what the laws of physics allow? There could be a very narrow band of possible replicator molecules allowed by the laws of physics, then DNA/RNA would be likely eventualities wherever there was life. On the other hand there may be an infinite number of possible replicators for natural selection to work on, in which case it would be very unlikely they would share our biochemistry. It's an interesting question to ponder.

[BoozyBeggar]

"On the other hand there may be an infinite number of possible replicators for natural selection to work on"

There could be, but I don't see any reason to entertain the idea without any evidence, except for fun. Kind of like the Marvel Universe in comics; I no reason to think that such a place actually exists, but it's fun to read. Happy No-Work Day!

[riversonthemoon]

True. I'm sure we couldn't reason our way to knowledge about aliens without any data. But we can run through the implications of near blind guesswork and imagine distant worlds with remarkably different selection pressures and different solutions evolved for problems posed by the environment. The aim of the game is plausibility, not truth, and it's about the best we can do on this subject with no evidence.

I've always been more of a DC Comics man myself. :)

[kekzzzz]

Carl Sagan changed my view on the world. It´s such a pity that he had to die.

If just a little more people were like him....

[Barklord]

Actually, humans have all types of gods. Not just of human form.

[alblahblah]

I am a willing passenger!!

[fizzybgood]

You are greatly missed, Mr. Sagan.

[mjdoyza]

He sounds a bit like Montgomery Burns, and dresses like Lenny (or is it Carl?).

[logossfera]

Why is the works of ancient greek philosophers so unknown to the vast majority of the people. Is someone trying to keep us in the dark? Maybe they are exactly the same people who try to convince there is no wisdom outside a specific book. Maybe...

[Atheistblindchick]

How wise he was...

[Oxydox]

Lol maybe earth should just lay low until we gain lots of new technology... instead of beckon the aliens with our radio waves

[Walabio]

¡Excellent!

[JaboCelt007]

Bush needed to be de-provincialized BEFORE he became prez. At least take a trip out of texas once in a while.

[Skeptikmind]

George W. Bumpkin

[QuasiMolko]

Man, I love Sagan.

[Duck1987]

more!

[maurieer]

Yes, how very true Carls statements are.

The god delusion is still evolving.

In fifty or so years, if we haven`t destroyed

ourselves, this god delusion could quite possibly be totally different.

[billybones116]

Further proof that pretty much everything Carl Sagan said or wrote was gold.