The Roman Catholic Church is one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic church founded by Our Lord and God, Jesus Christ. Yes, there are SINNERS in the church, as Jesus came for sinners. Many of the children were abused by homosexuals who infiltrated into the church. The book, The Homosexual Network by Father Enrique Rueda clearly documents this fact. The Catholic Church does NOT teach men to do evil but to REPENT and confess sins and amend their life!
Yes, those words excusably flow off the liberal Catholic tongue year after year, and the abuse continues uncorrected and the children continue to be abused. The abusers should be publicly hung, or thrown into the ocean, and then you would see how fast the homosexual child abusers get religion. For real, I mean really really do it, But Rome at the highest level is at fault.
Rome is not at fault. Analyze the molestation problem appropriately. The Catholic Church explicitly forbids capital punishment which you are actively promoting.
They should not be "publicly hung". They should be imprisoned and prayed for.
Luke 17:2 – “It were better for him, that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should scandalize one of these little ones.” Jesus.
Jesus said what He said, and most anyone can understand it. If someone is sexually molesting children, scandalizing them, (turning them into molesters themselves) isn’t that teaching them the gravity of sin? If you’re not understanding me, it’s because you don’t want to. Are you homosexual? I ask because I've found that on matters of sex, homosexuals seem to try and twist what Scripture and the Church teaches...
No, I am not homosexual, and neither am I twisting what the Church teaches. You seem to be, through your support of capital punishment. The Catechism explicitly explains why the Church forbids it.
Christ used those phrases to appeal to people 2, 000 years ago. Life was much different back then. I can not stand Priests abusing young children. They surely deserve severe punishment on Earth, but as Catholics we are called to discourage capital punishment.
“Thou shalt not kill” does not prevent just and lawful killing. Legitimate public authority may condemn a man to death because the common good is more important than the individual good. Not only is it lawful for the state to remove murders completely from society by death. But an individual may kill an unjust aggressor if it is necessary for the preservation of his own life. God Himself sanctioned war over and over again, when other means did not avail to secure justice.
Killing Priests who have abused children is revenge and capital punishment. It is not in line with the Catholic Church.
The ONLY time capital punishment (NOT self defense) is permitted is when there is no better way to ensure the safety of individuals than through executing the perpetrator, but Pope John Paul II said in 1997 that "such a case today is rare, albeit impossible, because of modern prison security."
Stop justifying your personal feelings, you cafeteria Catholic.
Killing pedophiles who pretend to be priests and abuse children is indeed revenge and capital punishment. Priests are suppose to be in persona Christi, and like I already said, Christ said to tie a mill stone around their neck and throw them into the sea, and I say, “Hang em High”. Of course I defer to Christ’s idea of throwing them into the sea, hanging them as you say, is my personal feelings. Strange how the Novus Ordo & homos are addicted to protecting pedophiles rather than children?
Why do you continuously insinuate that I am homosexual? I have reiterated several times that my gripe with capital punishment for pedophiliac priests arises from the Church's stance on capital punishment and not me being homosexual. I am not homosexual.
"Novus ordo"
Oh, you're a traditionalist...well that invalidates your entire argument then. Be in communion with the Church before you criticize me.
The Church has made no official pronouncement on Capital Punishment, but allows it. You mentioned JPII, and I mention Pope Leo XIII who said (paraphrasing) those priests who cause scandal (homosexuals & pedophiles) should be handed over to the civil authorities and the most severe punishment administered. Don’t forget stoning to death in the OT & NT. Don’t forget what the good thief
said, we deserve what we’re getting. Don’t forget Jesus and the millstone.
The first Divine pronouncement, which seems to sanction the death penalty is found in Gen.,6: “Whosoever shall shed man’s blood, his blood shall be shed: for man was made to the image of God”
The Church HAS made an official pronouncement on Capital Punishment. It is only permissible in rare and special circumstances.
Pedophilac priests do not meet that qualification.
And, again, I am not supporting these priests. They surely deserve severe punishment and must answer to God for their transgressions, but that does not alter Church teaching.
CCC. 2266 “…Legitimate public authority has the right and the DUTY to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense.”
CCC. 2267 “…the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty…” Jesus said to not fear those who can kill the body, but those who can kill the soul – like pedophiles who ruin and kill countless thousands of lives and souls and can’t seem to stop themselves, sex addict sick. Hang em. Hang every damn one of them…
Your inability to grasp this concept is laughable.
The priests who abuse children are EVIL, IMMORAL, and committing MORTAL SIN. BUT, keep in mind that they are NOT subject to the death penalty unless there is no other way to ensure that they cannot harm others.
That is the ONLY case. Anything else is not permissible and will NOT qualify!
Keep laughing while children are being raped. Putting them in jail does not ensure that they will stop raping children – they get out and continue raping. Name me a crime that does more harm to society than pedophilia? Why is it not permissible to hang pedophile priests or otherwise? What crime is worse, pedophilia or outright murder? Calling them EVIL & IMMORAL while hiding behind the concept of, not being permissible is BS. Start hanging them and see how fast they get religion.
Your unwillingness to be objective on this topic is indicative of personal emotion and a close connection to it.
If you or anyone close to you was abused, I completely understand your anger and I hope all goes well. But in the end, what God wants is what should happen. God does not want the execution of priests who abuse children. They have a chance to repent and change their ways.
It is never too late. The thief on the cross did it minutes before his death.
Well then… Let them repent just before they drop, if not, one soul is lost. If you let them live or put them in jail, makes little difference, many hundreds of victim souls are lost. I have given you several quotes from the O.T. & N.T. and CCC that says Capital Punishment is permitted. I told you what Jesus Himself said about a millstone around their necks, I quoted from well over 4,000 yrs – and you in reply give me 50 yrs of drivel from Vatican II. It’s time for you to Cowboy up!
Our Lord Jesus Christ and Scripture, the teaching of the Catholic Church from the earliest centuries, as represented, e.g., in the writings of St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas (Summa Theologica, IIa IIae, Q. 64, A. 2), and St. Alphonsus Liguori (all Doctors of the Church), as well as in the Encyclical Casti Conubii of Pope Pius XI, is that society has the authority to inflict punishments upon its members, and even to deprive a criminal of his life, for the necessity of the common good:
An execution may take place if the following conditions are met:
1. The guilt of the prisoner is certain.
2. The crime is of major gravity. (Raping children).
3. The penalty is to be inflicted, after due process, by (state authority), not by private individuals or by (lynching). Okay, we can’t hang them but we can exterminate by throwing them into the sea.
4. The prisoner is given the opportunity to make his peace with God.
St. Luke (14:26) says: "If any man comes to Me, and hates not his father and mother, and his wife, and children,… yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple." It is a mistake to think that Our Lord did not teach that we can hate. There is a holy hatred that is an evangelical virtue. The reality is, the error is in the person who errs just as ferocity is in a wild beast. Hatred must be directed not only toward sin considered abstractly, but also toward the person of the sinner.
It is not a hatred fed by a superficial ire. It is an ordered, rational and therefore virtuous hatred. Such is the "perfect hate" that "belongs to charity." Thus, to hate virtuously and uprightly is an act of charity! How this truth shocks the "good-hearted" man! Reality is: Pedophiles are butchers of souls who won’t stop until they are dead.
Execution by a legitimate civil authority is not murder, so says today’s Catholic Church. I’ll risk my soul to save the souls of children. Pedophiles who rape children are butchers of souls which begats more souls lost. Why? Just to save the pedophile? BS. The evil and sickness of some of the Vatican II documents is that they can be interpreted any-which-way one likes. The New church can please Jews, Protestants, non-Christians, liberal and funny Catholics.
At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit descended upon the Church to never leave it. You traditionalists left because you felt that the Church made a mistake with Vatican II. What about the fact that the Holy Spirit prevents the Church from making a mistake? The Church is infallible. Therefore, the post-Vatican II Church (the one today) is the true Church of Christ, just as it has been since 1 A.D.
As for the pedophile issue, make any decision you feel will get you closer to Heaven.
At Pentecost the Holy Ghost did indeed descended upon the Church, and at Vatican II according to the Pope at that time John Paul VI said, through some crack in the Church the smoke of Satan has entered into the Church. The Church has been through this before during the Arian heresy, akin now to the Vatican II heresy. Hang in there; Jesus said He would be with us until the end of time. By their fruits you shall know them. What are the fruits of Vatican II?
Wrong. It is impossible for Satan to get into the Church through "some crack" because of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has been with the Church since its infancy and it will prevail in the end. It is impossible for it to allow Satan to get in the entire Church.
You are not Catholic. You are a Protestant. There is slight difference between you and those who follow Martin Luther.
Seeing how’s we’re name-calling, let me say, you’re about as dumb as a stick. Study up!
The difference between Luther, Novus Ordos and Traditionalists is that Luther, like the Novus Ordo wants to change what was always considered truth. Traditionalists are (STANDING FAST) as per 2 Thessalonians 2:14 “Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.”
I have studied this matter extensively. I am not name calling-stating the truth is not name calling.
Are you not deviating from the Catholic Church? Do you not disagree with them? You are a Protestant. The fact that you continuously interpret passages from the Bible literally further affirms my assertion that you are a Protestant.
Traditionalism is at odds with Catholicism.
We have not changed the truth. We have not altered the truth. We have held to it since 1 A.D.
Traditional Catholicism is Catholicism that is until Vatican II came along.
Before VII Catholics would be in mortal sin to partake in non-Catholic worship. Since VII you have had Assisi 1, 2 and two days ago Assisi 3. VII popes have worshiped in synagogues, mosques, given Communion to non-Catholics, changed the words consecration of the wine from ‘many’ to ‘all’. The list goes on and on. You have not studied extensively as you would know these things from the secular news. Stick…
The commence of this entire spectacle was your assertion that pedophiles can be executed under Church teaching. This is at odds with the position of the Church. It's as clear cut and simple as that.
Capital punishment is not permitted as a whole for those who molest children. There are alternatives to the death penalty. I don't condone what these sick people do, but I follow Christ's teaching.
I apologize for the major delay in responding. I was working overseas.
The Holy Father and the bishops are outside the Catholic mainstream, and at odds with Scripture, tradition and Natural Law. One should pick up the essay by Avery Cardinal Dulles in an issue of First Things April 2002. As Dulles notes, Catholicism has supported the death penalty for 2000 years.
When Pilate calls attention to his authority to crucify him, Jesus points out that Pilate's power comes to him from above, that is to say from God.... Jesus commends the good thief on the cross next to him, who has admitted that he and his fellow thief are receiving the reward of their deeds. And that was just for stealing, not for pedophiles.
I went back and forth and read your correspondence with another user regarding the morality of capital punishment.
Please think before you speak. The Catholic Church does not support murder. It doesn't even encourage the execution of murders, so why on earth would it permit the murder of pedophiles, who as bad as they are, still leave the person alive?
I can show you tons of documents that prove the Church is opposed to capital punishment. What do you have to say?
The Church never has permitted (murder). However it does support a (just) death penalty. If the Church does not support a just death penalty, show me where it is written. Jesus said, fear not those who can kill your bodies, but fear those who can kill your soul. Pedophiles kill souls. Not all, but many victims of pedophiles become pedophiles themselves and the crime becomes repetitious killing more souls. Before the death sentence, pedophiles should be permitted confession.
There is an entire section in the Catechism opposing the death penalty. Just google "Catholic view on death penalty" and you'll get your answer.
It seems that you are twisting the Church's position. For my entire life I have known the Church to be an outspoken foe of the death penalty. You need to clearly double check your sources.
And Jesus says fear those who kill your soul, not kill them...
It is the Holy Father and the bishops who are outside the Catholic mainstream, and at odds with Scripture, tradition and Natural Law. For an exposition of Catholic doctrine, one should pick up the essay by Avery Cardinal Dulles in the April issue of First Things. As Dulles notes, Catholicism has supported the death penalty for 2000 years.
In the O.T., the Mosaic Law specifies 36 capital offenses calling for execution by stoning, burning, decapitation or strangulation. Included in the list are magic, blasphemy, violation of the Sabbath, murder, adultery, bestiality, (pederasty) and incest. The death penalty was considered especially fitting as a punishment for murder, since in his covenant with Noah, God had laid down the principle, "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed...."
In the New Testament, the right of the State to put criminals to death seems to be taken for granted.... At no point ... does Jesus deny that the State has authority to exact capital punishments. In his debates with the Pharisees, Jesus cites with approval the apparently harsh commandment, "He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die." ... Traditio.
When Pilate calls attention to his authority to crucify him, Jesus points out that Pilate's power comes to him from above, that is to say from God.... Jesus commends the good thief on the cross next to him, who has admitted that he and his fellow thief are receiving the reward of their deeds. Traditio.
When the ancient Israelites had departed from Egypt and were sojourning in the Sinaitic Peninsula, they received from the Lord a code of legislation wherein the death penalty was prescribed for many offences. In Ex., XXI that penalty is prescribed for murder, for a willful assault upon the father or mother of an offender, for cursing a man’s father or mother, and for man stealing. - I suppose that would be for 'boy' stealing also?
Praying to the dead is devil worship. This priest even proved this when he said a spirit appeared to the woman in the guise of a dead girl.
Worship of the dead is called necromancy in the bible.
At death you immediately pass into everlasting glory or ever lasting destruction. This is only what is spoken by the Word of God in the Scriptures of the old and new testament.
@Oblationem On what basis do you justify that God inspired certain Jews to write prayers for the dead? That is a religion of works!
Only faith in Christ can save us.
Remember the malefactor on the cross whom Christ said "Today thou shalt be with me in paradise" This clearly states that even though this man had a lifetime of sin, through faith that Christ is the Son of God he was saved that instant!
@Oblationem Is not the entire purpose which Christ dies on the cross for was to redeem His people from their sins. He took on our sins on the cross and suffered in our place and took Gods just punishment in our stead. How can a sinners works justify him before a righteous God.
Let me quote Scripture to you from John 19:30. Christ said "It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
Christ accomplished His work on the Cross and there is nothing we can add to His finished work.
Well… If that is all there is to it why did He say to Peter, whoever sins you forgive are forgiven etc, and don’t forget that after Jesus died on the Cross He descended into Hell. However many Protestants don’t believe in Hell even though the Bible speaks of it. Many Protestants also don’t believe in Confession and rejects Purgatory. Many say the Bible is sufficient to salvation but reject so much of it or put their own spin on it…
@Oblationem I cannot speak on anyone's behalf on what they personally believe but a true believer believe on the whole of scripture. You only have to confess your sin to Christ as he is the high priest for the Christian.
Christ suffered eternal hell in our place. He represents the scape goat from the old testament.
John 20:19-23 Here Christ speaks to all the disciples He breaths on them the Holy Spirit which takes away sin through the blood of the cross.
That’s right, you can’t speak for anyone but yourself.
However, the oldest living and longest lasting teaching institution on Earth that Christ founded, the Catholic Church said, that there is a Hell and a purgatory. Scripture also says if you have any dispute to go to the Church. Jesus Christ did not found your sect. When you disagree or persecute the Catholic Church you are persecuting Him. The words, Holy Trinity are also not in the Bible.
@Oblationem The church of God are the people of God and not a building or an earthly institution. The head of that Church is Christ and no other has that authority. The church of God is all the people of God who the Father has elected before the world was formed.
What I should have said was the concept of purgatory is nowhere mentioned in the Holy Scriptures and is not part of the Christian life.
Hebrew 7:25 It cleared says that sinners are saved TO THE UTTERMOST that come to God through Christ.
Yes you are right again you have no authority. Christ knowing of course, that the Apostles would not live forever, and that His Church would continue until the 'end of time' (Mt 28:20), "I laid the foundation, and another builds thereon. But let everyone take care how he builds thereon, for other foundations no one can lay, but that which has been laid, which is Jesus Christ." 1Cor 3:10-11. So there will be followers who will build upon the foundation.
@Oblationem Neither has Roman Catholicism any right to add purgatory to Christian worship. That is my point purgatory is wrong and devilish. I have the right to use the authority in Scripture to bring to light heresy. Do you not know that communicating to spirits you are in fact talking to devils for they are on this earth.
A man maybe breathing but is dead already if he doesn't have the spirit of God in him. If you are not born again of the spirit you will die in your sins.
I gave you 15 references from scripture supporting Purgatory, and you gave me your personal opinion. You have the wrong interruption of Scripture. You’re swinging wildly to support something that is not true. Get a good Catholic Bible and read it, if you find something you’re not sure of, ask the Church, the Catholic Church. The Bible is a Catholic Book. Protestants didn’t write the Bible nor have any authority to change it to their own schismatic and heretical meaning.
@Oblationem I have no need to ask an error ridden church to reveal to me Gods Word. I will ask Christ to make it known to me through the Holy Spirit. What the Roman Catholic Church is doing is taking sinners to Hell and I do not regard it as Christian.
The references you gave didn't even mention purgatory nor have you answered my questions satisfactorily.
How am I swinging wildly? It is you who is trying to take a small excerpt and take it completely out of context to what is written.
If you were a teacher with authority I’d worry about your opinion of not answering your questions satisfactorily, but you’re not.
2 Mach was just one of many books of the Bible that was ‘first’ infallible and effectually promulgated pronouncement on the Canon, addressed to the Church Universal at the Council of Trent in 1546. Being dogmatic in its purport, it implies that the Apostles bequeathed the same Canon to the Church. Your being satisfied has no bearing on the matter, Purgatory IS.
@Oblationem I have just sent you an email for my response as there is no room for all my answers. I have not included the book of Maccabees as it is not part of the inspired Word of God. Christ never made mention of it or used any use of the term or concept. Neither did any of the Apostle, Disciples nor the Prophets of the Old Testament. It did not appear in Catholic Roman Bibles until after the Council of Trent. Neither is it the original Scriptures.
Machabees was often united with Jeremias and in the Canon of the O.T. in the first three centuries. – The sub-Apostolic writings of Clement, Polycarp, the author of the Epistle of Barnabas, of the pseudo-Clementine homilies, and the “Shepherd” of Hermas, contain implicit quotations from or allusions to, the deuterocanonicals. Machabees can be found in the KJV of 1611. The Old Testament lays hidden in the New and the New Testament is revealed in the Old. We didn’t add them you took them out.
@Oblationem The Jews said from 450 BC the voice of the prophets was not heard in the land since Malachi. Jews consider Maccebees to he heretical works, as I do.
The King James Version of 1611 never contained the book of Maccebees because those translators recognised it is NOT the inspired Word of God.
I go by authority of Scripture and of the Holy Spirit.
The Authorised King James Bible is the same bible that the early church had. The one Irenaeus and Athanasius of Alexandria read from.
King James a proven homosexual (google this for yourself) authorized a new translation of the Bible in 1604. St. Athanasius of Alexandria was born in the year 296 and died May 2, 373. St. Irenaeus was born between the years 115-125 or 130-142. Neither Athanasius nor Irenaeus never ever read the KJV, that is unless they could bi-locate to the future. Study up, goodbye…
@Surfxeo They considered Maccabees sacred until the Council of Jamnia, which took place WELL AFTER Christ had risen. Why? Because it supported that Jesus Christ was the Messiah.
The Council of Jamnia was held by Jewish Rabbis in 90 A.D. What does Romans 3:1-2 actually say? Does it say that Jews have the authority to determine the canon over the canon that the Church that Jesus himself established? NOT! Jesus says to his New Covenant apostles ‘Whatsoever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.’? (Mt. 16:18-19, Mt. 18:18). The Bible is a Catholic Book. I think you're just spitting into the wind.
@Oblationem No, I'm not saying Maccabees is not sacred. I'm a converted Protestant to Catholicism. I'm telling the guy who said that the Deuterocanonical books are apocryphal that he is in error by saying the only reason he believes these books are apocryphal is because some fat, drunk German mistook Jamnia as binding on the Christians (which even the Jews said was not).
Jesus would not destroy the Church that He founded, and said that the gates of Hell would not stand against it. Granted, there are and have been evil men in the Catholic Church, but it is still the only thing that stands between you and evil.
@Oblationem The old 'one true church' line is still active among you idolater necromancing pope lovers i see... I will just pray for you friend. Catholicism is just an extension of Roman paganism. Rome NEVER fell. That is all I have left to say.
@Oblationem amen become enemy's with the world and friends with Jesus !!! May Our Blessed Mother Patron of Our Lord's Church help us to work for the Salvation of Lost Souls always and everywhere, in prayer, works and the Sacraments !!! God be with you brother and that you never leave Him !!!
The cathloic chruch was first and should always be first. Also England is protestant because King Henry wanted to Slaughter and Divorce every woman he married and thus set of Chruch Of England because prostants would allow such behavior
Jesus died for all sins of his people. There can be no additional payment or sacrifice for sins. The idea of purgatory, an invention of the Catholic Church, is unbiblical.
No one church has all of Christ's people. I'm not saying that Catholics aren't saved, only that they practice a lot of man made traditions that are not found in the Bible. The church are the true believers no matter what denomination they attend. I would look for a good Baptist, Lutheran or Presbyterian church.
Well What about the Church that Christ founded, dont you think Jesus would want me to be in that Church? And what does (that) Church say about its traditions that are not in the Bible? Im not trying to start a war with the three sects that you mentioned, but even they dont claim to be in the Church that Christ founded. What does the Bible say the Church is that Christ founded? WWJD?
Well, the church of Christ is made up of all believers and followers of Jesus Christ no matter what church they may attend. Christ is the head, Christians are the body. There are differences in doctrine but faith in Christ is what determines a true Christian. To learn the correct Christian doctrine one must learn it from the scriptures, not men.
You know what is so funny about the above comment? That they too, in essence, follow man made traditions...historically speaking, it was Luther who broke away from the church and then hundreds of years later, they follow a man's personal interpretation than what the Church Fathers (followers of the original 12) taught. So yeah, we hold fast to tradition but it it is tradition by the church father while they hold fast to tradition from a person's own interpretation, and that gets handed down.
Hence the 20,000+ denomnations that can't agree on the interpretation of the Bible. I hold fast to, Outside of the Church, Roman Catholicism, there is no salvation. The Church is the ark and just like Noah's time, if they are not in it, they have to be or they will not be saved
All those protestant, sectarian denominations you mention are outside the church that Christ founded. All those sects you name were invented in the 16th century and later. They are man-made reinterpretations of christianity. You are there in a state of heresy and need to go back to the one, true Church. Like there is but 1 God, there is just 1 Church and not a whole bunch of mini-churches are sects.
The Holy Universal Church was and is the seat of Jesus(Peter) other churches have some of it right but, the catholic Church has all 7 sacraments, go with the original.
@NewDirection4us i am catholic i dont rely on the bible alone if you remember the bible have not been written yet they rely on the apsotle and witnesses of Christ.AMEN
Jesus Did not create the protestant chruch Martin Luther Did. He broke away from the Catholics the church that Christ made. If you read the bible christ set up the church and it stayed the way it was for many years but when martin luther broke away many others decied to
@xknightmage - ML also said that one should live your life a good protestant but die a good Catholic!! That is great ! Many Lutherans want to return to the Holy Catholic Church!!
@Oblationem Any Church that does the will of Jesus' Father, which basically would be a Protestant Church. The end of revelation states whoever shall change a jot or diddle in the Bible (and the Catholic Church has done a lot of changing), will wish they had never been born.The Catholic Church has changed so much more so than a jot or a diddle.Why does the Catholics have their own Bible.
@Oblationem No, THE Catholic Bible IS very DIFFERENT from the King James Bible.As for the heartwarming story the priest is telling, anyone who comes back from the "dead" per se is a demon.I really am shocked that this Priest is telling this story. Please look up Pastor Erwin Lutzer, Pastor of the Moody Church in Chicago.He writes and explains how the Blood of Christ is the only way our sins are forgiven.Dogma means man made rules, not God's divine word.
Yes, the Bible is a Catholic Book. The word (dogma) is understood to be a truth appertaining to faith or morals, revealed by God, transmitted from the Apostles in the Scriptures or by tradition, and proposed by the Church for the acceptance of the faithful. It might be described briefly as a revealed truth defined by the Church — but private revelations do not constitute dogmas, and some theologians confine the word defined to doctrines solemnly defined by the pope or by a general council.
@glammie4 where has the Catholic church changed anything ? By the way the first protestant reformer or deformer was Luther and he took Revelations out as well as Hebrews, James , Jude, along with the 7 deuterocaonical books ."Take the beam out of your own eye"(Jesus Christ).
@Oblationem Jesus gave his Apostles authority as he did Peter as the head Matthew 18:18 "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven. This gives the church authority . Now I know what you would try to prove but I can justify all catholic teaching with tradition verses and prove you wrong.
Well that’s just wonderful. I quote the same thing myself.
The thing is, the Church has to follow what it preaches eh? It has to follow it’s own Dogma. It cannot go against what the Church has always and everywhere taught as true and part of the Catholic faith.
@Oblationem Your an SSPX Catholic .I pray that prayer of the holy spirit for I am a Cursillista .An evangelical movement Christian .Im a Roman Catholic .But your still in somewhat schism with us yes? When Jesus gave the Apostles authority ,how come you do not go with the leaders of the church ? You remind me of the divisions that St. Paul talked about .
Look, the church that you are trying to defend is in apostasy. They worship with pagans, Devil worshipers and other demonic religions. I am not in schism with the Catholic faith and Church of all time. I want nothing to do with the Novus Ordo who has betrayed the Church. Like St. Paul to St. Peter, I’m in your face about it. Because Jesus said the Church will not fail, you are trying to defend the indefensible.
@Oblationem Give me the quotes and references .i don't can't take your word for it.No offense But when it comes to the church I always demand that people give me references . The Quran is false . Gal 1:8-10 tells us that it is false .Either a Demon came to Muhammad or he made it all up .Anyone who reads it knows its false if they read the Bible first.
Cardinal Ratinger wrote a book named: “Called to Communion Understanding the Church Today.” Ignatius Press p. 17. He said, “Eastern schismatics are united to the Catholic Church.” Since becoming pope he has not retracted any of his many heretical statements.
Pope Pius XI said: “Eastern schismatics are not united to the Catholic Church.”
@Oblationem The Eastern churches core teachings are with the catholic church .We disagree on leadership . They are not in complete union with Rome but neither are Society of St. Pius 10th . The churches breaking in the great schism of 1000 AD Believe in the same as we do .I believe one day we will be united again .Now for my understanding the Pope is in the process of lifting the ex-communication of SSPX .
If the SSPX gets back into communion with the Novus Ordo and the SSPX accepts it, that would mean that the SSPX has betrayed the teachings of the Catholic Church. To be blunt, the Novus Ordo has the buildings and that’s it. They have no credibility, they do not promote or defend the Catholic Church/Faith. With any luck from the Holy Ghost, the pope will excommunicate the SSPX again.
Core teachings? Do you just pull this out of your hat?
@Oblationem Do you believe in the term "mother of God"? ,"Do you believe in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist ?Do you believe in confession to a priest? Do you accept the Didiche as teaching ? etc I believe you accept all of those and many more subjects agreeable by us . So stop arguing us and help us defend the faith against the 35,000 protestant denominations
I am helping you. Instead of arguing with me, argue with your leaders. Tell them that you don’t want a watered-down Catholic Faith. Tell them: you just want to be catholic like our forefathers were, Like all the canonized saints. Tell them that you believe in the Real Presence and you want them to act like it by letting only consecrated hands touch it. Tell them to quit talking one way and acting in another way.
@Oblationem Im a former directer of Eucharistic ministry for bringing communion to the sick . Now In Matthew Jesus gave authority to his apostles "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven ,and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven " That verse gave the church authority to do what they did in Vatican II did it not ? I have read several books promoting the SSPX including "Letter to confused Catholics "
Well… I suppose using that line of reasoning one could say: all those Novus Ordo pedophiles that raped and are raping children have the authority of Vatican II eh? Hold still little Jonny, I have authority to ‘bind’ and ‘loose’ you from Matthew.
Vatican II was a Pastrol Council, the first in the history of the Church. It did not have the authority of a Dogmatic Council. NO, it cannot change the truth.
@Oblationem I actually happen to agree with you on a lot however Paul talks of these divisions that must not happen in Thessalonians . He even says to shun the dividers and the ones causing confusion . WE need to be in union . Protestants Baptists and others are calling us evil .We need to unite and educate our lay Catholics so they can defend themselves .
Protestants, Muslims and Jews are not the problem in the Catholic Church. YOU, you are the problem. Novus Ordo Catholics are the problem. You try to defend the faith but it’s a new faith, new sacraments, new canon laws, new mass, new ordination rite, and new way of thinking about Catholicism. You want people to accept a new phony modern politically correct Catholicism in place of the real thing. At least the Muslims, Jews and Protestants are up front about what they believe.
@Oblationem WE need to unite your causing divisions talked about in scripture. Paul warns us of this . 2Thess 3: 6-9 says to shun those who do so.You need to unite so we can set a good example for our Protestant brothers and sisters
My brothers and sisters are Catholic. Your Protestant brothers and sisters reject Vatican II as unholy, evil and down right crooked. They want nothing to do with the Vatican II Church. If you want to set a good example for Protestants, become a Traditional Catholic. Otherwise you are like a worm boring in and hollowing out the Church from within.
A traditional Catholic follows the teachings and traditions of the Catholic Church, not men who are in apostasy. What more facts could you possible want to prove that the men who are presently in possession of the Church property are in apostasy? Look around, read and study for yourself. “By their fruits you shall know them.” eh? Matt: 7:16.
“The works of the Devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see Cardinals opposing Cardinals, Bishops against Bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres… churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises…”
The point is: that the Devil has infiltrated into the Church and apparently you refuse see it in spite of the overwhelming evidence. And you want me to help you promote this illegitimate Novus Ordo way of being to Protestants. Fat chance.
How about Paul to the Galatians 2:11 “But when Cephas was to come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.”
“Am I then become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” Again, St. Paul to the Galatians 4:16.
“Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.” St. Paul again Second Thess 2:14.
No, you do not. You follow a new church that does not follow the traditions of the Church, and I can prove it with the words and actions of those that you follow. Even the Devil can quote scripture. So how do we figure this out? I suggest that we will know them by their fruits eh? Whgat is the fruit of Vatican II?
@Oblationem " WE instruct you brothers in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us " (2Thess3:6) "Amen amen I say to you,Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven .'(Matt 18:18)
Does that mean that who ever the pope may be, that he can use his own authority to destroy the Church? I think not. It is not Traditionalists that conduct themselves in a disorderly way. It is Vatican II and it’s ambiguity that has caused the Novus Ordo prelates to act in a disorderly way. Again, Vatican II was is a pastoral Council, not carrying the theological weight as Dogmatic Council. Being a Catholic in good standing, I could not accept VII over a Dogmatic Council even if I wanted to.
@onclave6 Pope does not destroy the church he is infallable on teachings and morals.According to Rome you are not in good standing sorry. Your causing divisions supporting the 35000 protestant denominations against us ,
No, you are wrong again. Traditional Catholics do not worship with Protestants, Jews and Moslems. Novus Ordos do that sort of thing, and violate the First Commandment, then criticize Traditional Catholics because they stay faithful to God and His Catholic Church. Again, what are the fruits of Vatican II? VII has so many poisonous opinions, errors and principles, which are extremely opposed to the Catholic Religion and her doctrine.
It is not Traditionalists that are Roman Protestants.
@Oblationem I am not wrong I follow God how can I be?I dont pray with anyone but Catholics I have been spending years here debating Muslims and atheists, trying to convince them their Koran is false . I have been working hard for Christ , you sir need to do the same .
Good, I am happy that you have been fighting for the Church. But now you need to fight with the Pope, as he does not believe in Matt: 16:18 as WE do. He defends a horizontal Papacy instead of a vertical Papacy. Someone needs to clue him in on what Jesus said in Matt: 16:18. After Council Vatican II, Joseph Ratzinger - then a priest and today a Pope - wrote a 20-page collaboration for the book “The Great Themes of the Council.” Its Probably required reading at EWTN?
@Oblationem WE can go around and around all day I stand what I say and I believe that the Apostles were to be followed as the Church should have been followed by you .
It is actually, just not in your bible as you are clearly a protestant, and you've removed 7 books from the bible because you decided you didnt like them i guess...
. II Machabees 12:43-46 states this at the end : ".......Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin."
there is no purgatory, and you cant help dead people after they die, they have aready rejected the Lord Jesus or acepted the Lord Jesus.after you are dead there is no turning back.and in Hebrews Jesus went in once into the Holy Place obtaining our redemtion for us already done deal He already did everything for our redemtion.
Catholics prove that there is a Purgatory by the constant teaching of the Church that Christ founded, not the church that King James founded, that would be akin to believing in a Bible that Clinton or Obama wrote. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.
First catholics or anyone else can Not prove there is a purgatory and since there is no machabee's in the bible or come from hebrew or greek it isn't a book of the bible it wasnt a original book of the bible, added by catholic's to prove your false doctrines. and no one can take away sin exept by the blood of Jesus John 10 says any one trying to go up another way is a theif and a robber Jesus said he was the way truth life no man come to the father exept by Jesus,We couldnt do it Jesus had to.
As a Catholic, I accept everything after the first two statements.
* they have aready rejected the Lord Jesus or acepted the Lord Jesus.
* after you are dead there is no turning back
* and in Hebrews Jesus went in once into the Holy Place obtaining our redemtion for us already done deal He already did everything for our redemtion.
Correct on three counts. However, your conclusion: "there is no purgatory, and you cant help dead people after they die" does not follow from your statements.
What I mean is that, I think you are confused about Purgatory. Purgatory is the continuation of the cleansing of our souls, but even more intense than on earth, without the possibility of further sin or distraction by earthy things. Purgatory is for the cleansing of sins for those who are on their way to Heaven, those in Hell have rejected Christ and Heaven.
As we are purified on earth, so we will continue to be purified after we die, until we reach our Heavenly home.
Purgatory does not exist, It was made up by The Roman Catholic Church to Get money out of there follower's. It clearly states in the Holy Book, You die and go straight to heaven or hell nothing inbetween. What a scam!!! you stay in a mystical Place after death until you are prayed or paid out of this place??? Who decides the correct amount of praying??? who decides the correct monetatry amount. The Catholic Church is going to be held Accountable for misleading millions of souls to hell, tragic.
@LittleMoosehoof Purgatory Mt 5:48 – be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. Heb 12-14 – strive for that holiness w/o which cannot see God. Jam 3-2 – we will fall short in many respects. Rev 21-27 – nothing unclean shall enter heaven. 1 Jn 5-16-17 – degrees of sins distinguished. Jam 1:14-15 – when sin reaches maturity gives birth to death. 2 Sam 12:13-14 – David, though forgiven, still punished for sin. Mt 5:26 – you will not be released until paid last penny.
I don't know about this! i've never heard anything about purgatory in the bible. I've always understood that when man dies he knows nothing. he is asleep awaiting Christ's second coming!he is not aware of what's happening around him.Call me crazy, but did Christ ask Lazurus 2 come out of purgatory or 2 awaken from his sleep?...I have 2 research this a lil' more.
Since the Gates of Heaven were closed from the time of Adam and Eve, and no one entered, John 3:13, where did all of the Biblical Prophets and heros go until the Gates were reopened at the Crucifixion? Surely they could not have been in hell, as that is permanent and no one leaves there.
Moses and Elias appeared to Jesus before the Crucifixion, Matthew 17:3. From where did they come? Limbo? Sheol? Purgatory? There had to have been a third place, right? If there was a third place then, why not a third place now? From: (Catholic Treasure Chest)
However my argument is for the reality of Purgatory and or Limbo as taught by the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has Scriptural authority for whatever doctrines she teaches, insofar as she was appointed to be the teacher of mankind by Christ. It would not matter whether a given doctrine were contained in Scripture or not. While everything in the Bible is true, not everything true is in the Bible.
If you don't believe in Purgatory please quote Scriptural authority to show that there is no purgatory. Purgatory is an intermediate state which is neither heaven or hell. It is where souls are purified from the stains of sin. This intermediate state is evident from 1Peter 3:19. St. Peter says that Christ died in the flesh, but that His living soul went to preach to those spirits that were in prison.
St. Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 3: 14-15."If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward." -- "If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." Douay Rheims Version.
The good thief suffered upon the cross, and also suffered after Jesus died until his legs were broken. The point is that we are purified before we enter into heaven, if need be...
Zech.13[9]And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
John 3:13, "No one has ascended to Heaven but He who came down from Heaven, that is the Son of Man, who is in Heaven." He was telling Nicodemus, that you cannot rise up into Heaven without being in the Spirit. If Nicodemus were a great Jewish teacher, he would realize how many times the Prophets were literally picked up and transported to various places. Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lords Day...Rev 4:1&2 John in the spirit taken up immediately into heaven... Internet Source
Some Protestants believe that no-one will enter Heaven until the end of the world. However, this is not historical or Biblical. Jesus says to the good thief, "This day you shall be with me in Paradise", not in a couple thousand years, at the end of the world, but *this day*.
Prayers for the dead have been offered even by the Jews before Christ and continued to be offered in the early Church and continually. The consequences of sin do not end with earthly death. We must pray for each other!
What is time to Jesus? The thief's body could be dead for three thousand years and yet his spirit passes that time as if it was the same day. So "Today" in spirit time may not mean the same in Earth time.
i used to recite the rosary at the columbarium at a Church i used to go to (burial plots in singapore are extremely expensive), but those prayers below, if i am not wrong, follow a formula which Our Lady recommends, and which would "release so many, so many souls!", according to the pieta prayer booklet.
Our Lord told St. Gertrude that this prayer would release 1000 souls from Purgatory each time it is said.
"ETERNAL FATHER, I OFFER THEE THE MOST PRECIOUS BLOOD OF THY DIVINE SON, JESUS, IN UNION WITH THE MASSES SAID THROUGHOUT THE WORLD TODAY, FOR ALL THE HOLY SOULS IN PURGATORY, FOR SINNERS EVERYWHERE, FOR SINNERS IN THE UNIVERSAL CHURCH, Those in my own home and within my family. Amen."
APPROVAL AND RECOMMENDATION
(sqd.) M. Cardinal Pahiarca at Lisbon, Portugal, on March 4, 1936
Purgatory is a reality. The fire given to us by God to be used in earth is a fire for our well-being. BUT the fires in purgatory is to punish the souls for the wrongs it did in order to enter heaven. i.e to purify the human soul which doesn't have death.
"Catholic teaching regarding prayers for the dead is bound up inseparably with the doctrine of purgatory and the more general doctrine of the communion of the saints, which is an article of the Apostle's Creed. The definition of the Council of Trent (Sess. XXV), "that purgatory exists, and that the souls detained therein are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but especially by the acceptable sacrifice of the altar".
robbed is backwards for RAPED
duhavifk 2 months ago
The Roman Catholic Church is one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic church founded by Our Lord and God, Jesus Christ. Yes, there are SINNERS in the church, as Jesus came for sinners. Many of the children were abused by homosexuals who infiltrated into the church. The book, The Homosexual Network by Father Enrique Rueda clearly documents this fact. The Catholic Church does NOT teach men to do evil but to REPENT and confess sins and amend their life!
fatima01917 7 months ago
@fatima01917
Yes, those words excusably flow off the liberal Catholic tongue year after year, and the abuse continues uncorrected and the children continue to be abused. The abusers should be publicly hung, or thrown into the ocean, and then you would see how fast the homosexual child abusers get religion. For real, I mean really really do it, But Rome at the highest level is at fault.
Oblationem 7 months ago
@Oblationem
Rome is not at fault. Analyze the molestation problem appropriately. The Catholic Church explicitly forbids capital punishment which you are actively promoting.
They should not be "publicly hung". They should be imprisoned and prayed for.
God bless.
sllipful 4 months ago
@sllipful
Luke 17:2 – “It were better for him, that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should scandalize one of these little ones.” Jesus.
Oblationem 4 months ago
@Oblationem
Christ used this verse to illustrate the gravity of teaching children to sin.
I'm not understanding you: Are you Catholic?
sllipful 4 months ago
@sllipful
Jesus said what He said, and most anyone can understand it. If someone is sexually molesting children, scandalizing them, (turning them into molesters themselves) isn’t that teaching them the gravity of sin? If you’re not understanding me, it’s because you don’t want to. Are you homosexual? I ask because I've found that on matters of sex, homosexuals seem to try and twist what Scripture and the Church teaches...
Oblationem 4 months ago
@Oblationem
No, I am not homosexual, and neither am I twisting what the Church teaches. You seem to be, through your support of capital punishment. The Catechism explicitly explains why the Church forbids it.
Christ used those phrases to appeal to people 2, 000 years ago. Life was much different back then. I can not stand Priests abusing young children. They surely deserve severe punishment on Earth, but as Catholics we are called to discourage capital punishment.
sllipful 4 months ago
@sllipful
“Thou shalt not kill” does not prevent just and lawful killing. Legitimate public authority may condemn a man to death because the common good is more important than the individual good. Not only is it lawful for the state to remove murders completely from society by death. But an individual may kill an unjust aggressor if it is necessary for the preservation of his own life. God Himself sanctioned war over and over again, when other means did not avail to secure justice.
Oblationem 4 months ago
@Oblationem
Killing Priests who have abused children is revenge and capital punishment. It is not in line with the Catholic Church.
The ONLY time capital punishment (NOT self defense) is permitted is when there is no better way to ensure the safety of individuals than through executing the perpetrator, but Pope John Paul II said in 1997 that "such a case today is rare, albeit impossible, because of modern prison security."
Stop justifying your personal feelings, you cafeteria Catholic.
sllipful 4 months ago
Killing pedophiles who pretend to be priests and abuse children is indeed revenge and capital punishment. Priests are suppose to be in persona Christi, and like I already said, Christ said to tie a mill stone around their neck and throw them into the sea, and I say, “Hang em High”. Of course I defer to Christ’s idea of throwing them into the sea, hanging them as you say, is my personal feelings. Strange how the Novus Ordo & homos are addicted to protecting pedophiles rather than children?
Oblationem 4 months ago
@Oblationem
Why do you continuously insinuate that I am homosexual? I have reiterated several times that my gripe with capital punishment for pedophiliac priests arises from the Church's stance on capital punishment and not me being homosexual. I am not homosexual.
"Novus ordo"
Oh, you're a traditionalist...well that invalidates your entire argument then. Be in communion with the Church before you criticize me.
I will keep you in my prayers.
sllipful 4 months ago
If you say so.
The Church has made no official pronouncement on Capital Punishment, but allows it. You mentioned JPII, and I mention Pope Leo XIII who said (paraphrasing) those priests who cause scandal (homosexuals & pedophiles) should be handed over to the civil authorities and the most severe punishment administered. Don’t forget stoning to death in the OT & NT. Don’t forget what the good thief
said, we deserve what we’re getting. Don’t forget Jesus and the millstone.
Oblationem 4 months ago
@sllipful
The first Divine pronouncement, which seems to sanction the death penalty is found in Gen.,6: “Whosoever shall shed man’s blood, his blood shall be shed: for man was made to the image of God”
Oblationem 4 months ago
@Oblationem
The Church HAS made an official pronouncement on Capital Punishment. It is only permissible in rare and special circumstances.
Pedophilac priests do not meet that qualification.
And, again, I am not supporting these priests. They surely deserve severe punishment and must answer to God for their transgressions, but that does not alter Church teaching.
Read the Catechism's explanation of it.
sllipful 4 months ago
CCC. 2266 “…Legitimate public authority has the right and the DUTY to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense.”
CCC. 2267 “…the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty…” Jesus said to not fear those who can kill the body, but those who can kill the soul – like pedophiles who ruin and kill countless thousands of lives and souls and can’t seem to stop themselves, sex addict sick. Hang em. Hang every damn one of them…
Oblationem 4 months ago
@Oblationem
Your inability to grasp this concept is laughable.
The priests who abuse children are EVIL, IMMORAL, and committing MORTAL SIN. BUT, keep in mind that they are NOT subject to the death penalty unless there is no other way to ensure that they cannot harm others.
That is the ONLY case. Anything else is not permissible and will NOT qualify!
sllipful 4 months ago
Keep laughing while children are being raped. Putting them in jail does not ensure that they will stop raping children – they get out and continue raping. Name me a crime that does more harm to society than pedophilia? Why is it not permissible to hang pedophile priests or otherwise? What crime is worse, pedophilia or outright murder? Calling them EVIL & IMMORAL while hiding behind the concept of, not being permissible is BS. Start hanging them and see how fast they get religion.
Oblationem 4 months ago
@Oblationem
Your unwillingness to be objective on this topic is indicative of personal emotion and a close connection to it.
If you or anyone close to you was abused, I completely understand your anger and I hope all goes well. But in the end, what God wants is what should happen. God does not want the execution of priests who abuse children. They have a chance to repent and change their ways.
It is never too late. The thief on the cross did it minutes before his death.
God bless.
sllipful 4 months ago
Well then… Let them repent just before they drop, if not, one soul is lost. If you let them live or put them in jail, makes little difference, many hundreds of victim souls are lost. I have given you several quotes from the O.T. & N.T. and CCC that says Capital Punishment is permitted. I told you what Jesus Himself said about a millstone around their necks, I quoted from well over 4,000 yrs – and you in reply give me 50 yrs of drivel from Vatican II. It’s time for you to Cowboy up!
Oblationem 4 months ago
Our Lord Jesus Christ and Scripture, the teaching of the Catholic Church from the earliest centuries, as represented, e.g., in the writings of St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas (Summa Theologica, IIa IIae, Q. 64, A. 2), and St. Alphonsus Liguori (all Doctors of the Church), as well as in the Encyclical Casti Conubii of Pope Pius XI, is that society has the authority to inflict punishments upon its members, and even to deprive a criminal of his life, for the necessity of the common good:
Oblationem 4 months ago
@sllipful
An execution may take place if the following conditions are met:
1. The guilt of the prisoner is certain.
2. The crime is of major gravity. (Raping children).
3. The penalty is to be inflicted, after due process, by (state authority), not by private individuals or by (lynching). Okay, we can’t hang them but we can exterminate by throwing them into the sea.
4. The prisoner is given the opportunity to make his peace with God.
Oblationem 4 months ago
St. Luke (14:26) says: "If any man comes to Me, and hates not his father and mother, and his wife, and children,… yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple." It is a mistake to think that Our Lord did not teach that we can hate. There is a holy hatred that is an evangelical virtue. The reality is, the error is in the person who errs just as ferocity is in a wild beast. Hatred must be directed not only toward sin considered abstractly, but also toward the person of the sinner.
Oblationem 4 months ago
It is not a hatred fed by a superficial ire. It is an ordered, rational and therefore virtuous hatred. Such is the "perfect hate" that "belongs to charity." Thus, to hate virtuously and uprightly is an act of charity! How this truth shocks the "good-hearted" man! Reality is: Pedophiles are butchers of souls who won’t stop until they are dead.
Oblationem 4 months ago
@Oblationem
You can say what you want. As of today, the Catholic Church would not permit their murder nor encourage it.
You are jeopardizing your soul by supporting it. I hope you change your mind before it is too late for you.
sllipful 3 months ago
@sllipful
Execution by a legitimate civil authority is not murder, so says today’s Catholic Church. I’ll risk my soul to save the souls of children. Pedophiles who rape children are butchers of souls which begats more souls lost. Why? Just to save the pedophile? BS. The evil and sickness of some of the Vatican II documents is that they can be interpreted any-which-way one likes. The New church can please Jews, Protestants, non-Christians, liberal and funny Catholics.
Oblationem 3 months ago
@Oblationem
At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit descended upon the Church to never leave it. You traditionalists left because you felt that the Church made a mistake with Vatican II. What about the fact that the Holy Spirit prevents the Church from making a mistake? The Church is infallible. Therefore, the post-Vatican II Church (the one today) is the true Church of Christ, just as it has been since 1 A.D.
As for the pedophile issue, make any decision you feel will get you closer to Heaven.
sllipful 3 months ago
At Pentecost the Holy Ghost did indeed descended upon the Church, and at Vatican II according to the Pope at that time John Paul VI said, through some crack in the Church the smoke of Satan has entered into the Church. The Church has been through this before during the Arian heresy, akin now to the Vatican II heresy. Hang in there; Jesus said He would be with us until the end of time. By their fruits you shall know them. What are the fruits of Vatican II?
Oblationem 3 months ago
@Oblationem
Wrong. It is impossible for Satan to get into the Church through "some crack" because of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has been with the Church since its infancy and it will prevail in the end. It is impossible for it to allow Satan to get in the entire Church.
You are not Catholic. You are a Protestant. There is slight difference between you and those who follow Martin Luther.
sllipful 3 months ago
@sllipful
Seeing how’s we’re name-calling, let me say, you’re about as dumb as a stick. Study up!
The difference between Luther, Novus Ordos and Traditionalists is that Luther, like the Novus Ordo wants to change what was always considered truth. Traditionalists are (STANDING FAST) as per 2 Thessalonians 2:14 “Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.”
Oblationem 3 months ago
@Oblationem
I have studied this matter extensively. I am not name calling-stating the truth is not name calling.
Are you not deviating from the Catholic Church? Do you not disagree with them? You are a Protestant. The fact that you continuously interpret passages from the Bible literally further affirms my assertion that you are a Protestant.
Traditionalism is at odds with Catholicism.
We have not changed the truth. We have not altered the truth. We have held to it since 1 A.D.
sllipful 3 months ago
Traditional Catholicism is Catholicism that is until Vatican II came along.
Before VII Catholics would be in mortal sin to partake in non-Catholic worship. Since VII you have had Assisi 1, 2 and two days ago Assisi 3. VII popes have worshiped in synagogues, mosques, given Communion to non-Catholics, changed the words consecration of the wine from ‘many’ to ‘all’. The list goes on and on. You have not studied extensively as you would know these things from the secular news. Stick…
Oblationem 3 months ago
@Oblationem
The commence of this entire spectacle was your assertion that pedophiles can be executed under Church teaching. This is at odds with the position of the Church. It's as clear cut and simple as that.
Capital punishment is not permitted as a whole for those who molest children. There are alternatives to the death penalty. I don't condone what these sick people do, but I follow Christ's teaching.
I apologize for the major delay in responding. I was working overseas.
sllipful 1 month ago
@sllipful
The Holy Father and the bishops are outside the Catholic mainstream, and at odds with Scripture, tradition and Natural Law. One should pick up the essay by Avery Cardinal Dulles in an issue of First Things April 2002. As Dulles notes, Catholicism has supported the death penalty for 2000 years.
Oblationem 1 month ago
@Oblationem
When Pilate calls attention to his authority to crucify him, Jesus points out that Pilate's power comes to him from above, that is to say from God.... Jesus commends the good thief on the cross next to him, who has admitted that he and his fellow thief are receiving the reward of their deeds. And that was just for stealing, not for pedophiles.
Oblationem 1 month ago
@Oblationem
I went back and forth and read your correspondence with another user regarding the morality of capital punishment.
Please think before you speak. The Catholic Church does not support murder. It doesn't even encourage the execution of murders, so why on earth would it permit the murder of pedophiles, who as bad as they are, still leave the person alive?
I can show you tons of documents that prove the Church is opposed to capital punishment. What do you have to say?
TheRuner24 3 weeks ago
The Church never has permitted (murder). However it does support a (just) death penalty. If the Church does not support a just death penalty, show me where it is written. Jesus said, fear not those who can kill your bodies, but fear those who can kill your soul. Pedophiles kill souls. Not all, but many victims of pedophiles become pedophiles themselves and the crime becomes repetitious killing more souls. Before the death sentence, pedophiles should be permitted confession.
Oblationem 3 weeks ago
@Oblationem
There is an entire section in the Catechism opposing the death penalty. Just google "Catholic view on death penalty" and you'll get your answer.
It seems that you are twisting the Church's position. For my entire life I have known the Church to be an outspoken foe of the death penalty. You need to clearly double check your sources.
And Jesus says fear those who kill your soul, not kill them...
TheRuner24 3 weeks ago
1.
It is the Holy Father and the bishops who are outside the Catholic mainstream, and at odds with Scripture, tradition and Natural Law. For an exposition of Catholic doctrine, one should pick up the essay by Avery Cardinal Dulles in the April issue of First Things. As Dulles notes, Catholicism has supported the death penalty for 2000 years.
Traditio.
Oblationem 3 weeks ago
2.
In the O.T., the Mosaic Law specifies 36 capital offenses calling for execution by stoning, burning, decapitation or strangulation. Included in the list are magic, blasphemy, violation of the Sabbath, murder, adultery, bestiality, (pederasty) and incest. The death penalty was considered especially fitting as a punishment for murder, since in his covenant with Noah, God had laid down the principle, "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed...."
Traditio.
Oblationem 3 weeks ago
3.
In the New Testament, the right of the State to put criminals to death seems to be taken for granted.... At no point ... does Jesus deny that the State has authority to exact capital punishments. In his debates with the Pharisees, Jesus cites with approval the apparently harsh commandment, "He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die." ... Traditio.
Oblationem 3 weeks ago
4.
When Pilate calls attention to his authority to crucify him, Jesus points out that Pilate's power comes to him from above, that is to say from God.... Jesus commends the good thief on the cross next to him, who has admitted that he and his fellow thief are receiving the reward of their deeds. Traditio.
Oblationem 3 weeks ago
@sllipful
When the ancient Israelites had departed from Egypt and were sojourning in the Sinaitic Peninsula, they received from the Lord a code of legislation wherein the death penalty was prescribed for many offences. In Ex., XXI that penalty is prescribed for murder, for a willful assault upon the father or mother of an offender, for cursing a man’s father or mother, and for man stealing. - I suppose that would be for 'boy' stealing also?
Oblationem 4 months ago
Can we pray for the children that the catholic priests are raping?
Your church is a child molester church. Your priests are child rapists.
There isn't any god.
nomadtrash88 11 months ago
@nomadtrash88 Yes, many in the Novus Ordo are that way - and they should be publicly hung.
Oblationem 8 months ago
Praying to the dead is devil worship. This priest even proved this when he said a spirit appeared to the woman in the guise of a dead girl.
Worship of the dead is called necromancy in the bible.
At death you immediately pass into everlasting glory or ever lasting destruction. This is only what is spoken by the Word of God in the Scriptures of the old and new testament.
Surfxeo 1 year ago
God would not have inspired the Jews to pray for the departed if such prayers were to no avail.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem On what basis do you justify that God inspired certain Jews to write prayers for the dead? That is a religion of works!
Only faith in Christ can save us.
Remember the malefactor on the cross whom Christ said "Today thou shalt be with me in paradise" This clearly states that even though this man had a lifetime of sin, through faith that Christ is the Son of God he was saved that instant!
"Christ Only" is the Christian maxim.
Surfxeo 1 year ago
Yes, but that doesn't mean that you and I will automatically get to go straight to heaven when we die. Jesus does talk about Hell…
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem Is not the entire purpose which Christ dies on the cross for was to redeem His people from their sins. He took on our sins on the cross and suffered in our place and took Gods just punishment in our stead. How can a sinners works justify him before a righteous God.
Let me quote Scripture to you from John 19:30. Christ said "It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
Christ accomplished His work on the Cross and there is nothing we can add to His finished work.
Surfxeo 1 year ago
Well… If that is all there is to it why did He say to Peter, whoever sins you forgive are forgiven etc, and don’t forget that after Jesus died on the Cross He descended into Hell. However many Protestants don’t believe in Hell even though the Bible speaks of it. Many Protestants also don’t believe in Confession and rejects Purgatory. Many say the Bible is sufficient to salvation but reject so much of it or put their own spin on it…
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem I cannot speak on anyone's behalf on what they personally believe but a true believer believe on the whole of scripture. You only have to confess your sin to Christ as he is the high priest for the Christian.
Christ suffered eternal hell in our place. He represents the scape goat from the old testament.
John 20:19-23 Here Christ speaks to all the disciples He breaths on them the Holy Spirit which takes away sin through the blood of the cross.
Again purgatory is nowhere in Scripture.
Surfxeo 1 year ago
That’s right, you can’t speak for anyone but yourself.
However, the oldest living and longest lasting teaching institution on Earth that Christ founded, the Catholic Church said, that there is a Hell and a purgatory. Scripture also says if you have any dispute to go to the Church. Jesus Christ did not found your sect. When you disagree or persecute the Catholic Church you are persecuting Him. The words, Holy Trinity are also not in the Bible.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem The church of God are the people of God and not a building or an earthly institution. The head of that Church is Christ and no other has that authority. The church of God is all the people of God who the Father has elected before the world was formed.
What I should have said was the concept of purgatory is nowhere mentioned in the Holy Scriptures and is not part of the Christian life.
Hebrew 7:25 It cleared says that sinners are saved TO THE UTTERMOST that come to God through Christ.
Surfxeo 1 year ago
Yes you are right again you have no authority. Christ knowing of course, that the Apostles would not live forever, and that His Church would continue until the 'end of time' (Mt 28:20), "I laid the foundation, and another builds thereon. But let everyone take care how he builds thereon, for other foundations no one can lay, but that which has been laid, which is Jesus Christ." 1Cor 3:10-11. So there will be followers who will build upon the foundation.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem Neither has Roman Catholicism any right to add purgatory to Christian worship. That is my point purgatory is wrong and devilish. I have the right to use the authority in Scripture to bring to light heresy. Do you not know that communicating to spirits you are in fact talking to devils for they are on this earth.
A man maybe breathing but is dead already if he doesn't have the spirit of God in him. If you are not born again of the spirit you will die in your sins.
Surfxeo 1 year ago
I gave you 15 references from scripture supporting Purgatory, and you gave me your personal opinion. You have the wrong interruption of Scripture. You’re swinging wildly to support something that is not true. Get a good Catholic Bible and read it, if you find something you’re not sure of, ask the Church, the Catholic Church. The Bible is a Catholic Book. Protestants didn’t write the Bible nor have any authority to change it to their own schismatic and heretical meaning.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem I have no need to ask an error ridden church to reveal to me Gods Word. I will ask Christ to make it known to me through the Holy Spirit. What the Roman Catholic Church is doing is taking sinners to Hell and I do not regard it as Christian.
The references you gave didn't even mention purgatory nor have you answered my questions satisfactorily.
How am I swinging wildly? It is you who is trying to take a small excerpt and take it completely out of context to what is written.
Surfxeo 1 year ago
If you were a teacher with authority I’d worry about your opinion of not answering your questions satisfactorily, but you’re not.
2 Mach was just one of many books of the Bible that was ‘first’ infallible and effectually promulgated pronouncement on the Canon, addressed to the Church Universal at the Council of Trent in 1546. Being dogmatic in its purport, it implies that the Apostles bequeathed the same Canon to the Church. Your being satisfied has no bearing on the matter, Purgatory IS.
Oblationem 1 year ago
Purgatory:
Mt 12:32 – sin against Holy Ghost unforgiving in this age or next.
Mt 12:36 – account for every idle word on judgment day.
2 Macc 12:44-46 – atoned for dead to free them from sin.
1 Cor 3:15 – suffer loss, but saved as through fire.
1 Pet 3:18-20; 4-6 – Jesus preached to the spirits in prison.
2 Tim 1:16-18 – Paul prays for the dead friend Onesiphorus.
1 Cor 15:29-30 – Paul mentions people baptizing for the dead.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem I have just sent you an email for my response as there is no room for all my answers. I have not included the book of Maccabees as it is not part of the inspired Word of God. Christ never made mention of it or used any use of the term or concept. Neither did any of the Apostle, Disciples nor the Prophets of the Old Testament. It did not appear in Catholic Roman Bibles until after the Council of Trent. Neither is it the original Scriptures.
Surfxeo 1 year ago
Machabees was often united with Jeremias and in the Canon of the O.T. in the first three centuries. – The sub-Apostolic writings of Clement, Polycarp, the author of the Epistle of Barnabas, of the pseudo-Clementine homilies, and the “Shepherd” of Hermas, contain implicit quotations from or allusions to, the deuterocanonicals. Machabees can be found in the KJV of 1611. The Old Testament lays hidden in the New and the New Testament is revealed in the Old. We didn’t add them you took them out.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem The Jews said from 450 BC the voice of the prophets was not heard in the land since Malachi. Jews consider Maccebees to he heretical works, as I do.
The King James Version of 1611 never contained the book of Maccebees because those translators recognised it is NOT the inspired Word of God.
I go by authority of Scripture and of the Holy Spirit.
The Authorised King James Bible is the same bible that the early church had. The one Irenaeus and Athanasius of Alexandria read from.
Surfxeo 1 year ago
King James a proven homosexual (google this for yourself) authorized a new translation of the Bible in 1604. St. Athanasius of Alexandria was born in the year 296 and died May 2, 373. St. Irenaeus was born between the years 115-125 or 130-142. Neither Athanasius nor Irenaeus never ever read the KJV, that is unless they could bi-locate to the future. Study up, goodbye…
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Surfxeo They considered Maccabees sacred until the Council of Jamnia, which took place WELL AFTER Christ had risen. Why? Because it supported that Jesus Christ was the Messiah.
Read up, my friend.
Killermuffin1 8 months ago
The Council of Jamnia was held by Jewish Rabbis in 90 A.D. What does Romans 3:1-2 actually say? Does it say that Jews have the authority to determine the canon over the canon that the Church that Jesus himself established? NOT! Jesus says to his New Covenant apostles ‘Whatsoever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.’? (Mt. 16:18-19, Mt. 18:18). The Bible is a Catholic Book. I think you're just spitting into the wind.
Oblationem 8 months ago
@Oblationem No, I'm not saying Maccabees is not sacred. I'm a converted Protestant to Catholicism. I'm telling the guy who said that the Deuterocanonical books are apocryphal that he is in error by saying the only reason he believes these books are apocryphal is because some fat, drunk German mistook Jamnia as binding on the Christians (which even the Jews said was not).
Killermuffin1 8 months ago
That was a great story about the young woman who needed a job. Thanks for telling it !
heyjenknee 1 year ago
I look forward to when Christ comes back and destroys the disgusting vile pagan roman whore of babylon catholic church.
OohTheHorror 1 year ago
Jesus would not destroy the Church that He founded, and said that the gates of Hell would not stand against it. Granted, there are and have been evil men in the Catholic Church, but it is still the only thing that stands between you and evil.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem The old 'one true church' line is still active among you idolater necromancing pope lovers i see... I will just pray for you friend. Catholicism is just an extension of Roman paganism. Rome NEVER fell. That is all I have left to say.
OohTheHorror 1 year ago
"Have I Then Become Your Enemy Because I Tell You the Truth?"
Galatians 4:16
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem amen become enemy's with the world and friends with Jesus !!! May Our Blessed Mother Patron of Our Lord's Church help us to work for the Salvation of Lost Souls always and everywhere, in prayer, works and the Sacraments !!! God be with you brother and that you never leave Him !!!
johnrigs1234 1 year ago
Interesting, I read about that "souls in purgatory" story that Father was talking about, can't remember in which book though, what a small world hey.
Eltsacwenify 1 year ago
Did Jesus pay for our sins on the cross?
FiberMania 2 years ago
Long Live The Church of Rome! The Holy Catholic Church, Universal, and seat of St. Peter!
sicilianboi83 2 years ago 16
The cathloic chruch was first and should always be first. Also England is protestant because King Henry wanted to Slaughter and Divorce every woman he married and thus set of Chruch Of England because prostants would allow such behavior
xknightmage 2 years ago 10
Jesus died for all sins of his people. There can be no additional payment or sacrifice for sins. The idea of purgatory, an invention of the Catholic Church, is unbiblical.
NewDirection4us 2 years ago
Okay, you convinced me; I want to join a Protestant church, the one that Christ founded, which one should I join and why should I join that one?
Oblationem 2 years ago
No one church has all of Christ's people. I'm not saying that Catholics aren't saved, only that they practice a lot of man made traditions that are not found in the Bible. The church are the true believers no matter what denomination they attend. I would look for a good Baptist, Lutheran or Presbyterian church.
NewDirection4us 2 years ago
Well What about the Church that Christ founded, dont you think Jesus would want me to be in that Church? And what does (that) Church say about its traditions that are not in the Bible? Im not trying to start a war with the three sects that you mentioned, but even they dont claim to be in the Church that Christ founded. What does the Bible say the Church is that Christ founded? WWJD?
Oblationem 2 years ago
Well, the church of Christ is made up of all believers and followers of Jesus Christ no matter what church they may attend. Christ is the head, Christians are the body. There are differences in doctrine but faith in Christ is what determines a true Christian. To learn the correct Christian doctrine one must learn it from the scriptures, not men.
NewDirection4us 2 years ago
You know what is so funny about the above comment? That they too, in essence, follow man made traditions...historically speaking, it was Luther who broke away from the church and then hundreds of years later, they follow a man's personal interpretation than what the Church Fathers (followers of the original 12) taught. So yeah, we hold fast to tradition but it it is tradition by the church father while they hold fast to tradition from a person's own interpretation, and that gets handed down.
jvaz003 1 year ago
Hence the 20,000+ denomnations that can't agree on the interpretation of the Bible. I hold fast to, Outside of the Church, Roman Catholicism, there is no salvation. The Church is the ark and just like Noah's time, if they are not in it, they have to be or they will not be saved
jvaz003 1 year ago
All those protestant, sectarian denominations you mention are outside the church that Christ founded. All those sects you name were invented in the 16th century and later. They are man-made reinterpretations of christianity. You are there in a state of heresy and need to go back to the one, true Church. Like there is but 1 God, there is just 1 Church and not a whole bunch of mini-churches are sects.
Eskadron22 2 years ago 4
The Holy Universal Church was and is the seat of Jesus(Peter) other churches have some of it right but, the catholic Church has all 7 sacraments, go with the original.
MrSeacar 2 years ago
@NewDirection4us i am catholic i dont rely on the bible alone if you remember the bible have not been written yet they rely on the apsotle and witnesses of Christ.AMEN
hophalf 1 year ago
Jesus Did not create the protestant chruch Martin Luther Did. He broke away from the Catholics the church that Christ made. If you read the bible christ set up the church and it stayed the way it was for many years but when martin luther broke away many others decied to
xknightmage 2 years ago 5
@xknightmage - ML also said that one should live your life a good protestant but die a good Catholic!! That is great ! Many Lutherans want to return to the Holy Catholic Church!!
ivansanchez98 1 year ago
What? sarcasm, Christ founded the Holy Catholic Church
MrSeacar 2 years ago
@Oblationem Any Church that does the will of Jesus' Father, which basically would be a Protestant Church. The end of revelation states whoever shall change a jot or diddle in the Bible (and the Catholic Church has done a lot of changing), will wish they had never been born.The Catholic Church has changed so much more so than a jot or a diddle.Why does the Catholics have their own Bible.
glammie4 1 year ago
@glammie4
Yes, the Novus Ordo has changed much from what has always been considered truth. Catholics use the Bible because it is a Catholic Book.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem No, THE Catholic Bible IS very DIFFERENT from the King James Bible.As for the heartwarming story the priest is telling, anyone who comes back from the "dead" per se is a demon.I really am shocked that this Priest is telling this story. Please look up Pastor Erwin Lutzer, Pastor of the Moody Church in Chicago.He writes and explains how the Blood of Christ is the only way our sins are forgiven.Dogma means man made rules, not God's divine word.
glammie4 1 year ago
Yes, the Bible is a Catholic Book. The word (dogma) is understood to be a truth appertaining to faith or morals, revealed by God, transmitted from the Apostles in the Scriptures or by tradition, and proposed by the Church for the acceptance of the faithful. It might be described briefly as a revealed truth defined by the Church — but private revelations do not constitute dogmas, and some theologians confine the word defined to doctrines solemnly defined by the pope or by a general council.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@glammie4 where has the Catholic church changed anything ? By the way the first protestant reformer or deformer was Luther and he took Revelations out as well as Hebrews, James , Jude, along with the 7 deuterocaonical books ."Take the beam out of your own eye"(Jesus Christ).
onclave6 1 year ago
What has the Catholic Church changed? Are you kidding?
I think I'll call you Rip Van Winkle + 30.
I could answer for hours...
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem Jesus gave his Apostles authority as he did Peter as the head Matthew 18:18 "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven. This gives the church authority . Now I know what you would try to prove but I can justify all catholic teaching with tradition verses and prove you wrong.
onclave6 1 year ago
Well that’s just wonderful. I quote the same thing myself.
The thing is, the Church has to follow what it preaches eh? It has to follow it’s own Dogma. It cannot go against what the Church has always and everywhere taught as true and part of the Catholic faith.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem Your an SSPX Catholic .I pray that prayer of the holy spirit for I am a Cursillista .An evangelical movement Christian .Im a Roman Catholic .But your still in somewhat schism with us yes? When Jesus gave the Apostles authority ,how come you do not go with the leaders of the church ? You remind me of the divisions that St. Paul talked about .
onclave6 1 year ago
Look, the church that you are trying to defend is in apostasy. They worship with pagans, Devil worshipers and other demonic religions. I am not in schism with the Catholic faith and Church of all time. I want nothing to do with the Novus Ordo who has betrayed the Church. Like St. Paul to St. Peter, I’m in your face about it. Because Jesus said the Church will not fail, you are trying to defend the indefensible.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem Pagans how you figure?demons how so?I'm defending the tradition of the church ,What are you defending?
onclave6 1 year ago
If you are trying to defend the Novus Ordo church (small c) you are not defending what the Catholic Church has defined in Her Dogma and traditions.
In 2001 the Vatican approved that a Novus Ordo can go into the Assyrian schismatic church of the East and receive Communion, and vice versa.
Benedict XVI said that infant baptism has no reason to exist.
He also says that Islam represents greatness, and has gone into a Mosque and prayed toward Mecca. The list goes on and on.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem Give me the quotes and references .i don't can't take your word for it.No offense But when it comes to the church I always demand that people give me references . The Quran is false . Gal 1:8-10 tells us that it is false .Either a Demon came to Muhammad or he made it all up .Anyone who reads it knows its false if they read the Bible first.
onclave6 1 year ago
Quran? What are you talking about?
Cardinal Ratinger wrote a book named: “Called to Communion Understanding the Church Today.” Ignatius Press p. 17. He said, “Eastern schismatics are united to the Catholic Church.” Since becoming pope he has not retracted any of his many heretical statements.
Pope Pius XI said: “Eastern schismatics are not united to the Catholic Church.”
Mortalium Animos January 6, 1928,
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem The Eastern churches core teachings are with the catholic church .We disagree on leadership . They are not in complete union with Rome but neither are Society of St. Pius 10th . The churches breaking in the great schism of 1000 AD Believe in the same as we do .I believe one day we will be united again .Now for my understanding the Pope is in the process of lifting the ex-communication of SSPX .
onclave6 1 year ago
If the SSPX gets back into communion with the Novus Ordo and the SSPX accepts it, that would mean that the SSPX has betrayed the teachings of the Catholic Church. To be blunt, the Novus Ordo has the buildings and that’s it. They have no credibility, they do not promote or defend the Catholic Church/Faith. With any luck from the Holy Ghost, the pope will excommunicate the SSPX again.
Core teachings? Do you just pull this out of your hat?
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem Do you believe in the term "mother of God"? ,"Do you believe in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist ?Do you believe in confession to a priest? Do you accept the Didiche as teaching ? etc I believe you accept all of those and many more subjects agreeable by us . So stop arguing us and help us defend the faith against the 35,000 protestant denominations
onclave6 1 year ago
I am helping you. Instead of arguing with me, argue with your leaders. Tell them that you don’t want a watered-down Catholic Faith. Tell them: you just want to be catholic like our forefathers were, Like all the canonized saints. Tell them that you believe in the Real Presence and you want them to act like it by letting only consecrated hands touch it. Tell them to quit talking one way and acting in another way.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem Im a former directer of Eucharistic ministry for bringing communion to the sick . Now In Matthew Jesus gave authority to his apostles "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven ,and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven " That verse gave the church authority to do what they did in Vatican II did it not ? I have read several books promoting the SSPX including "Letter to confused Catholics "
onclave6 1 year ago
Well… I suppose using that line of reasoning one could say: all those Novus Ordo pedophiles that raped and are raping children have the authority of Vatican II eh? Hold still little Jonny, I have authority to ‘bind’ and ‘loose’ you from Matthew.
Vatican II was a Pastrol Council, the first in the history of the Church. It did not have the authority of a Dogmatic Council. NO, it cannot change the truth.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem I actually happen to agree with you on a lot however Paul talks of these divisions that must not happen in Thessalonians . He even says to shun the dividers and the ones causing confusion . WE need to be in union . Protestants Baptists and others are calling us evil .We need to unite and educate our lay Catholics so they can defend themselves .
onclave6 1 year ago
Protestants, Muslims and Jews are not the problem in the Catholic Church. YOU, you are the problem. Novus Ordo Catholics are the problem. You try to defend the faith but it’s a new faith, new sacraments, new canon laws, new mass, new ordination rite, and new way of thinking about Catholicism. You want people to accept a new phony modern politically correct Catholicism in place of the real thing. At least the Muslims, Jews and Protestants are up front about what they believe.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem WE need to unite your causing divisions talked about in scripture. Paul warns us of this . 2Thess 3: 6-9 says to shun those who do so.You need to unite so we can set a good example for our Protestant brothers and sisters
onclave6 1 year ago
My brothers and sisters are Catholic. Your Protestant brothers and sisters reject Vatican II as unholy, evil and down right crooked. They want nothing to do with the Vatican II Church. If you want to set a good example for Protestants, become a Traditional Catholic. Otherwise you are like a worm boring in and hollowing out the Church from within.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem A traditional catholic would follow the church not protest against it causing a division .
onclave6 1 year ago
A traditional Catholic follows the teachings and traditions of the Catholic Church, not men who are in apostasy. What more facts could you possible want to prove that the men who are presently in possession of the Church property are in apostasy? Look around, read and study for yourself. “By their fruits you shall know them.” eh? Matt: 7:16.
The battle continues until they convert…
Oblationem 1 year ago
“The works of the Devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see Cardinals opposing Cardinals, Bishops against Bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres… churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises…”
Our Lady of Akita October 13, 1973
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem Whats your point?
onclave6 1 year ago
The point is: that the Devil has infiltrated into the Church and apparently you refuse see it in spite of the overwhelming evidence. And you want me to help you promote this illegitimate Novus Ordo way of being to Protestants. Fat chance.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem Paul talks of divisions and to shun the ones causing them in his letters .By protesting Vatican 2, you cause a division .
onclave6 1 year ago
Oh! You want to play scripture?
How about Paul to the Galatians 2:11 “But when Cephas was to come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.”
“Am I then become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” Again, St. Paul to the Galatians 4:16.
“Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.” St. Paul again Second Thess 2:14.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem That is my game yes . I would quote some of the same to you .The tradition is to follow the church you do not
onclave6 1 year ago
No, you do not. You follow a new church that does not follow the traditions of the Church, and I can prove it with the words and actions of those that you follow. Even the Devil can quote scripture. So how do we figure this out? I suggest that we will know them by their fruits eh? Whgat is the fruit of Vatican II?
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem " WE instruct you brothers in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us " (2Thess3:6) "Amen amen I say to you,Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven .'(Matt 18:18)
onclave6 1 year ago
Does that mean that who ever the pope may be, that he can use his own authority to destroy the Church? I think not. It is not Traditionalists that conduct themselves in a disorderly way. It is Vatican II and it’s ambiguity that has caused the Novus Ordo prelates to act in a disorderly way. Again, Vatican II was is a pastoral Council, not carrying the theological weight as Dogmatic Council. Being a Catholic in good standing, I could not accept VII over a Dogmatic Council even if I wanted to.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@onclave6 Pope does not destroy the church he is infallable on teachings and morals.According to Rome you are not in good standing sorry. Your causing divisions supporting the 35000 protestant denominations against us ,
onclave6 1 year ago
No, you are wrong again. Traditional Catholics do not worship with Protestants, Jews and Moslems. Novus Ordos do that sort of thing, and violate the First Commandment, then criticize Traditional Catholics because they stay faithful to God and His Catholic Church. Again, what are the fruits of Vatican II? VII has so many poisonous opinions, errors and principles, which are extremely opposed to the Catholic Religion and her doctrine.
It is not Traditionalists that are Roman Protestants.
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem I am not wrong I follow God how can I be?I dont pray with anyone but Catholics I have been spending years here debating Muslims and atheists, trying to convince them their Koran is false . I have been working hard for Christ , you sir need to do the same .
onclave6 1 year ago
Good, I am happy that you have been fighting for the Church. But now you need to fight with the Pope, as he does not believe in Matt: 16:18 as WE do. He defends a horizontal Papacy instead of a vertical Papacy. Someone needs to clue him in on what Jesus said in Matt: 16:18. After Council Vatican II, Joseph Ratzinger - then a priest and today a Pope - wrote a 20-page collaboration for the book “The Great Themes of the Council.” Its Probably required reading at EWTN?
Oblationem 1 year ago
@Oblationem WE can go around and around all day I stand what I say and I believe that the Apostles were to be followed as the Church should have been followed by you .
onclave6 1 year ago
Well then follow them, not these new Roman Protestants.
Oblationem 1 year ago
It is actually, just not in your bible as you are clearly a protestant, and you've removed 7 books from the bible because you decided you didnt like them i guess...
. II Machabees 12:43-46 states this at the end : ".......Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin."
ssmitty1337 2 years ago 6
i personally Believe in superman!
WhiteLionV1 2 years ago
Me to, but if Superman dies from too much Kryptonite, what happens to his soul. Better get into the Catholic Church and save your soul...
Oblationem 2 years ago
I always find it so funny when men try to speak on behalf of god....
WhiteLionV1 2 years ago
there is no purgatory, and you cant help dead people after they die, they have aready rejected the Lord Jesus or acepted the Lord Jesus.after you are dead there is no turning back.and in Hebrews Jesus went in once into the Holy Place obtaining our redemtion for us already done deal He already did everything for our redemtion.
blessedwithoutmeasur 3 years ago
Catholics prove that there is a Purgatory by the constant teaching of the Church that Christ founded, not the church that King James founded, that would be akin to believing in a Bible that Clinton or Obama wrote. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.
(2 Machabees 12:46). Look it up.
Oblationem 3 years ago
First catholics or anyone else can Not prove there is a purgatory and since there is no machabee's in the bible or come from hebrew or greek it isn't a book of the bible it wasnt a original book of the bible, added by catholic's to prove your false doctrines. and no one can take away sin exept by the blood of Jesus John 10 says any one trying to go up another way is a theif and a robber Jesus said he was the way truth life no man come to the father exept by Jesus,We couldnt do it Jesus had to.
blessedwithoutmeasur 3 years ago
As a Catholic, I accept everything after the first two statements.
* they have aready rejected the Lord Jesus or acepted the Lord Jesus.
* after you are dead there is no turning back
* and in Hebrews Jesus went in once into the Holy Place obtaining our redemtion for us already done deal He already did everything for our redemtion.
Correct on three counts. However, your conclusion: "there is no purgatory, and you cant help dead people after they die" does not follow from your statements.
PilgrimToChrist 2 years ago
What I mean is that, I think you are confused about Purgatory. Purgatory is the continuation of the cleansing of our souls, but even more intense than on earth, without the possibility of further sin or distraction by earthy things. Purgatory is for the cleansing of sins for those who are on their way to Heaven, those in Hell have rejected Christ and Heaven.
As we are purified on earth, so we will continue to be purified after we die, until we reach our Heavenly home.
1Cor 3:13-15
PilgrimToChrist 2 years ago
Purgatory does not exist, It was made up by The Roman Catholic Church to Get money out of there follower's. It clearly states in the Holy Book, You die and go straight to heaven or hell nothing inbetween. What a scam!!! you stay in a mystical Place after death until you are prayed or paid out of this place??? Who decides the correct amount of praying??? who decides the correct monetatry amount. The Catholic Church is going to be held Accountable for misleading millions of souls to hell, tragic.
LittleMoosehoof 3 years ago
Oblationem 1 year ago
I don't know about this! i've never heard anything about purgatory in the bible. I've always understood that when man dies he knows nothing. he is asleep awaiting Christ's second coming!he is not aware of what's happening around him.Call me crazy, but did Christ ask Lazurus 2 come out of purgatory or 2 awaken from his sleep?...I have 2 research this a lil' more.
adriannyasia 3 years ago
1.
Since the Gates of Heaven were closed from the time of Adam and Eve, and no one entered, John 3:13, where did all of the Biblical Prophets and heros go until the Gates were reopened at the Crucifixion? Surely they could not have been in hell, as that is permanent and no one leaves there.
Oblationem 3 years ago
2.
Moses and Elias appeared to Jesus before the Crucifixion, Matthew 17:3. From where did they come? Limbo? Sheol? Purgatory? There had to have been a third place, right? If there was a third place then, why not a third place now? From: (Catholic Treasure Chest)
Oblationem 3 years ago
But. People have gone to heaven before the comming of Jesus.
Elijah . has been taken into heaven.
2 Kings 2:11
Peter, John and James, went up into a mountain to pray. Moses and Elias appeared
:- they came from heaven to comfort Jesus. (Luke 9: 28)
and later when Jesus came he tells the good thief you will be with me in Paradise (Luke.23-43)
ajojose18 3 years ago
I think you've made a good point.
However my argument is for the reality of Purgatory and or Limbo as taught by the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has Scriptural authority for whatever doctrines she teaches, insofar as she was appointed to be the teacher of mankind by Christ. It would not matter whether a given doctrine were contained in Scripture or not. While everything in the Bible is true, not everything true is in the Bible.
Oblationem 3 years ago
2.
If you don't believe in Purgatory please quote Scriptural authority to show that there is no purgatory. Purgatory is an intermediate state which is neither heaven or hell. It is where souls are purified from the stains of sin. This intermediate state is evident from 1Peter 3:19. St. Peter says that Christ died in the flesh, but that His living soul went to preach to those spirits that were in prison.
Oblationem 3 years ago
3.
St. Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 3: 14-15."If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward." -- "If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." Douay Rheims Version.
The good thief suffered upon the cross, and also suffered after Jesus died until his legs were broken. The point is that we are purified before we enter into heaven, if need be...
Oblationem 3 years ago
Zech.13[9]And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
ajojose18 3 years ago
John 3:13, "No one has ascended to Heaven but He who came down from Heaven, that is the Son of Man, who is in Heaven." He was telling Nicodemus, that you cannot rise up into Heaven without being in the Spirit. If Nicodemus were a great Jewish teacher, he would realize how many times the Prophets were literally picked up and transported to various places. Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lords Day...Rev 4:1&2 John in the spirit taken up immediately into heaven... Internet Source
Oblationem 3 years ago
Some Protestants believe that no-one will enter Heaven until the end of the world. However, this is not historical or Biblical. Jesus says to the good thief, "This day you shall be with me in Paradise", not in a couple thousand years, at the end of the world, but *this day*.
Prayers for the dead have been offered even by the Jews before Christ and continued to be offered in the early Church and continually. The consequences of sin do not end with earthly death. We must pray for each other!
PilgrimToChrist 2 years ago
What is time to Jesus? The thief's body could be dead for three thousand years and yet his spirit passes that time as if it was the same day. So "Today" in spirit time may not mean the same in Earth time.
NewDirection4us 2 years ago
i used to recite the rosary at the columbarium at a Church i used to go to (burial plots in singapore are extremely expensive), but those prayers below, if i am not wrong, follow a formula which Our Lady recommends, and which would "release so many, so many souls!", according to the pieta prayer booklet.
SummaTheologica 4 years ago
Our Lord told St. Gertrude that this prayer would release 1000 souls from Purgatory each time it is said.
"ETERNAL FATHER, I OFFER THEE THE MOST PRECIOUS BLOOD OF THY DIVINE SON, JESUS, IN UNION WITH THE MASSES SAID THROUGHOUT THE WORLD TODAY, FOR ALL THE HOLY SOULS IN PURGATORY, FOR SINNERS EVERYWHERE, FOR SINNERS IN THE UNIVERSAL CHURCH, Those in my own home and within my family. Amen."
APPROVAL AND RECOMMENDATION
(sqd.) M. Cardinal Pahiarca at Lisbon, Portugal, on March 4, 1936
ajojose18 3 years ago
Purgatory is a reality. The fire given to us by God to be used in earth is a fire for our well-being. BUT the fires in purgatory is to punish the souls for the wrongs it did in order to enter heaven. i.e to purify the human soul which doesn't have death.
ajojose18 3 years ago
Does anyone (CATHOLIC)... Pray this prayer(s) for the dead..
5 Apostals Creed
1 Hail Holy Queen
1 Our Father
1 Hail Mary
1 Glory Be
1 Eternal Rest.....
at the cemetary?
I also receite the "All Souls" rosary for all deceased souls.
ZanaRed13 4 years ago
"Catholic teaching regarding prayers for the dead is bound up inseparably with the doctrine of purgatory and the more general doctrine of the communion of the saints, which is an article of the Apostle's Creed. The definition of the Council of Trent (Sess. XXV), "that purgatory exists, and that the souls detained therein are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but especially by the acceptable sacrifice of the altar".
New Advent web site
Oblationem 4 years ago
Am I safe to say it's okay to continue w/ those prayers or the Chaplet in itself?
Thank You~
ZanaRed13 4 years ago
JMJ,
Thank you for this video!
I LOOOVE Rev. Father Cooper!
FenianTimelord 4 years ago