furthermore, his current swing is terrible for the Driver. Swinging with long clubs at high speeds and trying to control it with hands and timing is disastrous.. I can't do it and neither can he it seems! None of the long hitters do it this way either. However when I'm fit and playing well then his technique works beautifully for iron play. what Player suggest allows awesome ball striking but can feel like a less precise clubbing action.but who wants two swing methods? it is tempting though!
Player is 100% correct... but there is more. What he is proposing would help Tiger with his woods immensely. It is a far more mechanical body feeling that doesn't need to be timed. However it might impact Tigers iron game. With short irons his current handsy swing (cupped at the top and flipped through impact) works perfectly for someone with TW's athleticism, strength and body awareness...it allows great feeling and shaping. Question is: do you sacrifice woods or irons, or have two swing types?
Yer your right Gary, Tiger Woods is really shit at golf, how did he ever manage to win 14 majors with that terrible swing?? as Tiger has won more majors than Hogan surely he is doing something right? Oh yer Lee trevino was reallly shit aswell as he had a bowed left wrist at the top of his swing!! Watch Trevinos swing and see how tucked in his right elbow is to his body, regardless of his wrists not b eing underneath the shaft at the top. Rant over.
GARY...kudos for your many tips/inspirations! ARNIE has inspired many with his PROSTATE awareness: perhaps you can inspire your many SENIOR friends in VISION awareness..."macular degeneration(AMD)" AMD has now surpassed Prostate cancer(Novartis.com). A silent anomaly, AMD needs your HELP Gary in awareness!!!
9 Majors, and countless other victories, one would be wise to take heed of this fellow! did i mention he won 9 Majors, oh yes i did thats right, wow!!
I was hooking it and pushing it so bad I almost quit. Gary's nephew took pitty on me and showed me this move before I saw this video. It was the same thing that Yarwood told me to do a year ago. Bobby Verway said it the best and told me that when Gary is working on something he works on it for 6 months to a year before it becomes natural. As amatuers we always think a fix should be instant. This move works, best fix i have ever had on my 7th week 45 more to go. Finally hitting fairways/greens
Brilliant!!!!!! So simple too. I've had this video since i started playing three years ago and forgot about it but when I reviewed it again and started cupping my wrist at the top as Gary suggests I've made huge improvement in my ball striking!! This is probably the best piece of instruction and analysis on golf, period. Genius!
but hogan also still hit it as far as tiger. tiger needs to shorten his driver at least an inch in order to sync his lower and upper body to maintain his long distance and for once be able to hit the ball in the fairway
@avgolferguy Hogan certainly did not hit it as far as Tiger. In his prime with his "Five Fundamentals" swing he was hitting a low fade that favored control over distance. In his youth with his "Power Golf" swing Hogan was indeed a long hitter (averaging about 260-270, which was enough to compete in long driver contests), but he ditched this swing in favor of the fade because of the tendency to hook the ball off the face of the planet.
@avgolferguy Hogan certainly did not hit it as far as Tiger. In his prime with his "Five Fundamentals" swing he was hitting a low fade that favored control over distance. In his youth with his "Power Golf" swing Hogan was indeed a long hitter (averaging about 260-270, which was enough to compete in long driver contests), but he ditched this swing in favor of the fade because of the tendency to hook the ball off the face of the planet.
As the club begins to build up speed and the left hip makes the first move down the target line before it turns backward, the width of the stance will hold up just fine. If you have a tendency to lose your balance, your stance might be to narrow. w w w (dot) golferbreak80 (dot) c0m
I think you meant career slam, not grand slam. The only golfer to win the Grand Slam is Bobby Jones. Hogan won the Masters/US/British Opens but couldn't compete in the PGA Championship since it was at the same time as the British Open.
I love these guys like Gary who have a lifetime of experience in the game. You can learn so much from them. I'd bet 97% of instructors would go through 25 different things before they'd get to what Gary has boiled it down to in 3 minutes. It's biomechanics, and he's spot on. Neat video!
Just interested-what character traits of Player define him as a 'little prick' and why do you not define yourself as a 'little prick'. In addition can you inform all of us as to how many majors or PGA tournaments you have won so that we can ascertain whether your opinion is an informed one or not. This will enable us to either give due regard to your opinion or discount it totally. Thank you.
Hogans swing was Hogans swing, and Tigers swing is Tigers swing, and never the twain shall meet..
I have to laugh though, with all due respect to Mr Player he should have a look at some old footage of him swinging the club and he'll realise that he 'lashed' at the ball, as Tiger sometimes does.
You are actually wrong and if you ever studied Hogan's swing you would know that his right arm stays on his side much at impact and a few frames after. This is due to the openess of his body at impact. Tiger at impact with the driver has his shoulders closed to the target line while Hogan's are quite open.
Player is absolutely wrong here. He should have paused Tiger's swing one frame earlier. Try it yourself. Pause the video when Tiger's swing is one frame before the one Player pauses it on (about 1:23). You'll see Tiger and Hogan have the club in the same position, which is one frame before impact. Tiger's right arm is tucked into his side almost identical to Hogan's.
The reason it looks so different is that Tiger's swing is right at impact, and Hogan's is a frame before.
you shouldn't say that just because one's wrist is cupped at the time means that they'll hit a fade every time, there are too many other factors as in ball position and how open/closed the stance is. Cupped wrist at the top allows the club to be on plane with a slightly open clubface. Flat wrist creates an under plane swing and the clubface is slightly closed at the top. But, with golfers like tiger, timing at impact is more important than plane due to how repeatable of a swing he has.
I have video of many greats teaching their methods - Gary Player - Billy Casper - Jack Nicklaus - Ken Venturi - I have every book about Hogan also - he is my hero, but I find Venturi's method much easier to replicate. Venturi played with Hogan and Nelsen, and developed his ideas by actually talking and playing with one of the most accurate (Nelsen) and best ball strikers (Hogan) - when I followed his method I was able to shoot in the 70's after 3 rounds of practice. "Encycolpedia of Golf"
I have watched this same thing that Player is talking about. One of Tiger's heros was Norman, (notice the swipe he made in earlier years with the driver) Norman had a flat left wrist, and his misses under pressure were to the right. The flat wrist with produce a stonger loft at impact = greater length. Tiger now has toned it down, and hits smooth shots and clubs up like Hogan did - this phase will be incredible - 3rd in wins 2nd in majors after 11 yrs (avg is 23 yrs for the record holders)
The Golden Bearback then hadtruecompetition from Legends likeTomWatson,BillyCasper, Arnold Palmer,Lee Trevino, Gary Player,Severiano Ballesteros those were eal competitors back then. We allknow thattoday technology is betterandballsfly further than whentheGolden Bear played but you can say that Tigerreally doesn'thave competition unless you count Phil and VJ.If Tiger went back and played with those clubs back then with that type of competition, he obviously would not be dominate as he is today.
Tiger has competition - He's just so far above everyone else!!! "Golf Legend" is an intersting name to give someone. It's very rarely given to someone who is currently playing, usually to someone who has retired. Sporting legends are people who accomplish great things during their career. I'm sure in 15-20 years time they'll be calling players like Scott, Furyk, Mickelson, Singh, Els etc "Legends".
And.. if you gave the Golden Bear of old a brand new set of clubs from today and threw him in the current PGA tour, he would struggle. Just as Tiger would struggle if you did the opposite. But, if Tiger was playing 30 years ago and had been using old equipemnt his whole life, you bet he'd dominate, just as the Bear would dominate if he was playing now and had been using modern clubs his whole life!
My Point? It's very hard to compare golfers and their skills of today with golfers of yesteryear.
In Jack Nicklauses career, he won 18 majors. At age 33, Tiger has won 13 majors. I believe TIger is going to beat Nicklauses records and will be the greatest golfer of all time. In addition, Tiger Woods will be the first billionaire athelete in 2010.
And as for the arguement as to who is better, its a classic arguement, who's the best of the lot? Snead? Nelson? Hagen? Jones? Hogan? Nicklaus? Woods?, all we have to go on is tournaments and majors.... I believe Hogan was a fantastic ball-striker, prob the best..but he was a poor putter! (relative to the standard of golf we are talking about). I think Tiger is the best...maybe not now but time will tell.
They are my personal opinions, im a PGA pro and golf is my passion.
Its actually a college degree course now, im based in Ireland so I did it in the uk. If your in the states, have a check on the USPGA website, should give you good info there. If you have a hcp of 3 or less you can apply I think. Its a good career if its something you enjoy.
What Gary Player is saying there makes absolute sense. A flat wrist at top of backswing is one factor that may relate to Tiger swinging the club on and out-in swing path through the ball. The only shots you can hit with that swing path are a slice, hook, push slice, pull hook and a fade. When Tiger struggles, what shot does he go back to? A fade.
What Gary Player is saying there makes absolute sense. A flat wrist at top of backswing is one factor that may relate to Tiger swinging the club on and out-in swing path through the ball. The only shots you can hit with that swing path are a slice, hook, push slice, pull hook and a fade. When Tiger struggles, what shot does he go back to? A fade.
Isn't Tiger going for a more two-plan like swing recently? Closer to ball, and higher top, quieter hips. Allt that will most probably remove some of that one-planer hardcore flat wrist he had before. All good things IMO, and Tiger been playing awesome lately.
If you look at tigers swing now his right foot does not lift as much as in the still frame they are showing. That has been somthing he has been woorking on. Gary is on the money, He is hitting off his front toe there is no (foot)roll to the left, you end up having problems when you right foot looks like that at impact. It also leads to other swing issues.
All Gary Player was saying is that Tiger is too flat (wrist wise) at the top of his swing...its a problem tiger talks about all the time. there is absolutely no question that Player praises Tiger here and elsewhere.
The golf swing is a work in progress. good, fair criticism is always welcome even for tiger woods, if you ever see Tiger's interviews he says so himself, esp. when the help is coming from a legend like Player.
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look gary Tiger is easily going to be the best golfer ever at the end of his career.He is 50 times better than Hogan ever was so get with the future.Tiger's swing obviously works if he wins all the time so gary is pure jelous.
There is a difference between being a better player and having a better swing. Tiger Woods has a problem with going left with and misses a lot of fairways but his great play out of the rough and his superior putting. Hogan= better more efficient swing, Tiger= better player with the best mental game, most competitive player ever, one of the most powerful players ever, and his upper body strength really helps him out of the rough which minimizes the mistakes he makes off the tee.
That's absolutely ridiculous...I bet Tiger (Eldrick) would even disagree with you. You always have to improve. If there is a problem then fix it. Plain and simple. And Tiger was not "50 times better than Hogan." He still looks up to the man and the ballstriking skill he achieved. What I think........is that you should think next time you write something.
Look paulski I am 15 years old and I have a handicap of 4 I know what i'm on about ..... unlike you. Golf is my fav sport and I watch Tiger all the time and have seen him at the ryder cup and nothing compares to the sound of Tiger hitting the ball FACT. so don't fuck with me again.
Haha. That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. I don;t care if you are 15 and play on the PGA Tour...you still don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Well Tomsta3, that's a big boast for anyone to make - "I know everything there is to know about the golf swing".
Looked at your vid and yes, you have a decent swing there. However, you were unbalanced on the finish of "My Golf Swing" (FACT), so you might want to work on stability through the hitting zone and then all the way through to the finish. If you are in balance all the way through, stands to reason you'll be more in control of the shots and the handicap of 3 might even get better...
this video must have been made before hoylake and southern hills. if a course is really baked out, woods has discovered that irons off the tee can win majors. What kind of test is it where the champion doesn't use the most difficult club in the bag for the entire tournament?
Player is half right, only because he played with a 2-plane swing and not a 1-plane swing. While it's true that Hogan kept his wrist underneath and cupped his left wrist at the top, the reason Hogan cupped his wrist at the top was to produce a fade, and along with a weak grip, he was able to stop hooking the ball. Tiger was having trouble here because his upper arms became detached from his upper torso, and were independent of his body, not because of wrist position.
gary player is right. tiger takes the club to the top in the wrong position. with his left wrist totally flat, it means his first movement is downward, rather than round and in front of his body. the club stays so much behind his body towards the ball he needs a huge amount of wrist correction to save it, so he has to save it every shot! if he could correct this, he would win every tournament, if he doesnt already
I'll second that. In fact, if you hit a slice 90% of the time, you can always change your trajectory direction to compensate for that (not that I recommend this at all, but people do these things) -
Flat left hand at the top is a square clubface, cupped is and open clubface and bowed is a closed clubface. So is player telling tiger he should have an open clubface at the top. The downsing is a natural unwinding of the body, if done correctly everything falls into place and the clubhead is retured square to target line at impact with a flat wrist at the top.
fredarn in 2000 when tiger was hitting over 80 percent of greens and someone told you to bow your wrist like tiger is doing now you wouldve thought it was wrong
notice how it was across the line and often shut, his hips were so so so active which caused the club to 'lay' down behind him which forced him to flip his hands and forearms over to try and square the clubface up. His new swing focuses on a more one plane action which keeps his ball flight and trajectory more consistent, he can manipulate the flight very easily now, he also has a very different release of the golf club now than he had with butch harmon,
it's a much more natural release now, with butch it was very flippy, but now he lets the club release naturally, if you want to copy his swing motion at the moment forget it, it is extremely complicated and will take years to get anywhere near the ideal swing plane, remember it took tiger 2 years to master it and hes the most talented golfer ever.
Hmm, trying to compare Hogan To Woods is wrong both in terms of their individual approach to the game and their natural abilities.Hogan in his day was using heavy small headed inferior equipment,Woods on the other hand is using the latest terchnology,Most good golfers know Hogan is the gold standard,his work ethic was Legendary and his swing evolved over time,Woods on the other hand is unsurpassed in terms of natural ability NOT SWING,Can anyone measure talent??
Yup Gary Player doesn't know what he's talking about. Watch the beginning closely. Hogan actually takes the club inside more than tiger does on the backswing. Gary's analysis actually says Tiger takes it inside more than Hogan which is just not true. The reason why Hogan cups his wrist because he takes the club inside.
hehe you jest surely? You ever seen tiger up close? He hits like 99% of shots soooo pure and clean is just scary! People hang on to this Hogan ball-striking thing because they don't like new talent coming through and destroying scoring records.
Bullshit of Gary!!! Having the wrist like Tige does isbetter then the Hogans wrist! Because Tigen can attack the ball the same way he got up, it's sort of a one-plane swing, while hogans have to compensate.
paulski, I think YOU don't know what you're talking about. Player's offering his thoughts, and if I remember, Moe Norman said the same thing bout Tiger's right heel. Don't be such a hypocrite either, because I have a feeling that if Tiger gave you a couple of tips, you would gladly listen, JUST cause he's Tiger. He also writes instructions for the GD mags. So how bout you say, Tiger should take it easy on the teachings too? Because in your world, Tiger is holding instruction back just as much.
He's such a good presenter it makes it sound like he knows exactly what he's talking about...golf needs less of this 100%. Less talkers and more ppl who know. I think Player is communicating some observations based on feel etc.
I think he should stick to playing golf and not trying to teach the mechanics of the swing, frankly. I can't stand it when ppl talk like they know how everything works. Sure- he was a great golfer...but that doesn't mean he's qualified to really really analyze a swing. But everyone will hang on every single word- just cause he's Gary Player. This is the kind of thing that holds instruction back. I think Player should take it easy. He don't know everything.
Player doesn't know what he's talking about. Firstly, his wrist was flat in his prime. Secondly, he prolly took a strong grip when he showed us the bent wrist. (which would be fine) Third, he generalizes way too much. This will not fix Tiger. You can fade it with a flat left wrist. (and so did Hogan....look up some pics)
You can go on and on about how these two swings are different largely due to technical reasons. No one makes the obvious distinction that Ben Hogan is 5'8-5'9" and Woods is 6'whatever. Why don't we compare Nick Faldo and Corey Pavin next? Neither one can swing like the other and be succesful.
Ben Hogan cupped his wrists in an effort to further open the clubface due to his problems with a hook in his early years. Tiger's never had those problems. Plus, Tiger extends his arms away from his body to create a bigger arc. Hogan kept everything tight and connected. My point is that they'll never look the same on a split screen. It's silly to ask one to be like the other.
Actual live movement from point A to B ... sure, physics. But to talk about a drive that's time is past...like last weeks bomb and how "long" it was... it's geometry at that point.
Yes I agree that the point he makes is that Hogans swing approaches more from the inside as a result of him being less flat and more tucked at the top but thats not what I was referring to when I made the comment. I was only referring to his analysis of the videos when he freezes them "at impact."
As long as we're arguing like children...translation, which is basically movement of an object from point A to point B, is a vector. Vectors are covered in physics not geometry.
It is true that Hogan approaches a little more from the inside. He will probably hit a draw but a draw cannot go as far as a straight ball because physics says that the shortest distance to a point is a straight line. In Hogan's day, all they had was persimmon which is not nearly as forgiving as a 460cc Ti driver. You had to work the drive into the fairway. Tiger with the more forgiving driver is much more able to work on just hitting a straight ball which will achieve more distance.
Disregard the last comment. He totally missed the point Gary was making. Gary's teaching here has NOTHING to do with the position of the club head in comparison to Tigers. He's talking about the wrist at the top and the width of space left between Tigers arms and body.
Please don't be rude. I didn't say anything about the position of the clubhead. If you'll notice, Gary made a point, and even drew the little circle, highlighting the fact that Hogan's arm is close to his body "at impact." The video of Hogan's swing is not frozen at impact but a frame before.
I totally respect Gary Player. He is an accomplished player and has the wins to back up whatever he says about golf. However, what he says about the video isn't quite right. The video is stopped when Tiger is fully released into the ball while the Hogan video is paused before he is fully released.
Racist? Get over yourself. It was "black and white" as in "plain to see and irrefutable" - like in saying "there it is in black and white". He could also have meant opposites, same as you might say "chalk and cheese". No way did I see that as that any reference to race.
@woo738 Bar none.
1tontomato 2 weeks ago
furthermore, his current swing is terrible for the Driver. Swinging with long clubs at high speeds and trying to control it with hands and timing is disastrous.. I can't do it and neither can he it seems! None of the long hitters do it this way either. However when I'm fit and playing well then his technique works beautifully for iron play. what Player suggest allows awesome ball striking but can feel like a less precise clubbing action.but who wants two swing methods? it is tempting though!
timfrost08 1 month ago
Player is 100% correct... but there is more. What he is proposing would help Tiger with his woods immensely. It is a far more mechanical body feeling that doesn't need to be timed. However it might impact Tigers iron game. With short irons his current handsy swing (cupped at the top and flipped through impact) works perfectly for someone with TW's athleticism, strength and body awareness...it allows great feeling and shaping. Question is: do you sacrifice woods or irons, or have two swing types?
timfrost08 1 month ago
hogan was cupped at the top and then had a special move to un cock his wrist at the top before the downswing
gsclubv12 4 months ago
Perhaps Gary Player would be the best player the world has ever seen if he understood Hogan's swing
DASH1ful 5 months ago
Yer your right Gary, Tiger Woods is really shit at golf, how did he ever manage to win 14 majors with that terrible swing?? as Tiger has won more majors than Hogan surely he is doing something right? Oh yer Lee trevino was reallly shit aswell as he had a bowed left wrist at the top of his swing!! Watch Trevinos swing and see how tucked in his right elbow is to his body, regardless of his wrists not b eing underneath the shaft at the top. Rant over.
demoncleanser 8 months ago
proven correct by the current swing change
TheDistilledMan 11 months ago
White and black. hahaha.
zedomax 11 months ago
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1BoomerTEE 1 year ago
Good tip - I started slightly cupping my left wrist at address and consciously
hold that wrist angle through the backswing and at the start of the downswing. For whats its worth it has really helped with control and power.
jjshaka 1 year ago
Excellent master class!
rebodelatoile 1 year ago
was stuck at 11 greens a round since watching this just hit 15....and am starting to eat up the par 5s again...Danke Black KNIGHT!
PUArtista 1 year ago
9 Majors, and countless other victories, one would be wise to take heed of this fellow! did i mention he won 9 Majors, oh yes i did thats right, wow!!
Dreama40 1 year ago
I was hooking it and pushing it so bad I almost quit. Gary's nephew took pitty on me and showed me this move before I saw this video. It was the same thing that Yarwood told me to do a year ago. Bobby Verway said it the best and told me that when Gary is working on something he works on it for 6 months to a year before it becomes natural. As amatuers we always think a fix should be instant. This move works, best fix i have ever had on my 7th week 45 more to go. Finally hitting fairways/greens
davep007007 1 year ago
Brilliant!!!!!! So simple too. I've had this video since i started playing three years ago and forgot about it but when I reviewed it again and started cupping my wrist at the top as Gary suggests I've made huge improvement in my ball striking!! This is probably the best piece of instruction and analysis on golf, period. Genius!
jamescolinlittle 1 year ago
but hogan also still hit it as far as tiger. tiger needs to shorten his driver at least an inch in order to sync his lower and upper body to maintain his long distance and for once be able to hit the ball in the fairway
avgolferguy 2 years ago
@avgolferguy Hogan certainly did not hit it as far as Tiger. In his prime with his "Five Fundamentals" swing he was hitting a low fade that favored control over distance. In his youth with his "Power Golf" swing Hogan was indeed a long hitter (averaging about 260-270, which was enough to compete in long driver contests), but he ditched this swing in favor of the fade because of the tendency to hook the ball off the face of the planet.
sethisawesome 5 months ago
@avgolferguy Hogan certainly did not hit it as far as Tiger. In his prime with his "Five Fundamentals" swing he was hitting a low fade that favored control over distance. In his youth with his "Power Golf" swing Hogan was indeed a long hitter (averaging about 260-270, which was enough to compete in long driver contests), but he ditched this swing in favor of the fade because of the tendency to hook the ball off the face of the planet.
sethisawesome 5 months ago
gary player is a lot of things but a racist no way !!!!
Rgarrett1988 2 years ago
Hogans swing > Tigers Swing maybe, If I swung the club like the hawk, I could die happy
Nightwing690 2 years ago
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As the club begins to build up speed and the left hip makes the first move down the target line before it turns backward, the width of the stance will hold up just fine. If you have a tendency to lose your balance, your stance might be to narrow. w w w (dot) golferbreak80 (dot) c0m
video608 2 years ago
Listen to 2:06 and where he points where he says it... That is hilarious!
qbb01 2 years ago
11-1-2009. It's not a bore being 74. Happy Birthday, Gary.
mkl62 2 years ago
Isn't that because none of the majors are played in his country?
rne1971 2 years ago
Comment removed
NazariYaakob 2 years ago
i love this analysis. can anyone tell me what year tigers swing is from in this vid. thx
kevskigolf 2 years ago
Gary talks a lot of sense
thelukos 2 years ago
Very good analysis !
teg17 2 years ago
I think you meant career slam, not grand slam. The only golfer to win the Grand Slam is Bobby Jones. Hogan won the Masters/US/British Opens but couldn't compete in the PGA Championship since it was at the same time as the British Open.
jwsmith000 2 years ago
The British Open, The US Open, The British Amateur, The US Amateur, all in one calendar year...not bad for a Part Time Golfer from Atlanta.
cgasucks 2 years ago
Pretty good explanation.
smartergolflessons . (0M
smartergolflessons 3 years ago
Gary has some great books. I have an old comic book that I always keep and look through. (old)
Russ821 3 years ago
Me too - old newspaper cartoon strips? Were in the Express newspapers in UK I think.
golfbulldog 2 years ago
I love to hear Gary talk.
coffeefish 3 years ago
holla...the ball should be cut back to olden days. It would nice to see them playing 6800 yard golf courses that are now obsolete i.e. merion
nhsir 3 years ago
just so people know...golf on the PGA tour is less fairways and greens as it is long drives and 5 footers for birdies
tiggerman13 3 years ago
I love these guys like Gary who have a lifetime of experience in the game. You can learn so much from them. I'd bet 97% of instructors would go through 25 different things before they'd get to what Gary has boiled it down to in 3 minutes. It's biomechanics, and he's spot on. Neat video!
mr3856a 3 years ago 12
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Gary is a little prick and could not hold Tiger's jockstrap.
Schrittwieser 3 years ago
Just interested-what character traits of Player define him as a 'little prick' and why do you not define yourself as a 'little prick'. In addition can you inform all of us as to how many majors or PGA tournaments you have won so that we can ascertain whether your opinion is an informed one or not. This will enable us to either give due regard to your opinion or discount it totally. Thank you.
pigslefats 3 years ago
dude.... seriously... what planet are u from? Player is one of the greatest of all time. He has the right to comment/criticise because he knows...
u dipsh1t
HoganFan69 3 years ago
Hogans swing was Hogans swing, and Tigers swing is Tigers swing, and never the twain shall meet..
I have to laugh though, with all due respect to Mr Player he should have a look at some old footage of him swinging the club and he'll realise that he 'lashed' at the ball, as Tiger sometimes does.
HabloIrlandes 3 years ago
rkodavey,
You are actually wrong and if you ever studied Hogan's swing you would know that his right arm stays on his side much at impact and a few frames after. This is due to the openess of his body at impact. Tiger at impact with the driver has his shoulders closed to the target line while Hogan's are quite open.
Your observation = failure
KimJongILLTurrble 3 years ago
Player is absolutely wrong here. He should have paused Tiger's swing one frame earlier. Try it yourself. Pause the video when Tiger's swing is one frame before the one Player pauses it on (about 1:23). You'll see Tiger and Hogan have the club in the same position, which is one frame before impact. Tiger's right arm is tucked into his side almost identical to Hogan's.
The reason it looks so different is that Tiger's swing is right at impact, and Hogan's is a frame before.
Player = Failure
rkodavey 3 years ago
you shouldn't say that just because one's wrist is cupped at the time means that they'll hit a fade every time, there are too many other factors as in ball position and how open/closed the stance is. Cupped wrist at the top allows the club to be on plane with a slightly open clubface. Flat wrist creates an under plane swing and the clubface is slightly closed at the top. But, with golfers like tiger, timing at impact is more important than plane due to how repeatable of a swing he has.
hubiej54 3 years ago
he does not like Tiger's success
richtawee2007 3 years ago
Great post. Excellent analysis by Player. He makes the differences plain.
moshady8008 3 years ago
I have video of many greats teaching their methods - Gary Player - Billy Casper - Jack Nicklaus - Ken Venturi - I have every book about Hogan also - he is my hero, but I find Venturi's method much easier to replicate. Venturi played with Hogan and Nelsen, and developed his ideas by actually talking and playing with one of the most accurate (Nelsen) and best ball strikers (Hogan) - when I followed his method I was able to shoot in the 70's after 3 rounds of practice. "Encycolpedia of Golf"
prideventures 3 years ago
I have watched this same thing that Player is talking about. One of Tiger's heros was Norman, (notice the swipe he made in earlier years with the driver) Norman had a flat left wrist, and his misses under pressure were to the right. The flat wrist with produce a stonger loft at impact = greater length. Tiger now has toned it down, and hits smooth shots and clubs up like Hogan did - this phase will be incredible - 3rd in wins 2nd in majors after 11 yrs (avg is 23 yrs for the record holders)
prideventures 3 years ago
The Golden Bearback then hadtruecompetition from Legends likeTomWatson,BillyCasper, Arnold Palmer,Lee Trevino, Gary Player,Severiano Ballesteros those were eal competitors back then. We allknow thattoday technology is betterandballsfly further than whentheGolden Bear played but you can say that Tigerreally doesn'thave competition unless you count Phil and VJ.If Tiger went back and played with those clubs back then with that type of competition, he obviously would not be dominate as he is today.
redmustang03 4 years ago
Tiger has competition - He's just so far above everyone else!!! "Golf Legend" is an intersting name to give someone. It's very rarely given to someone who is currently playing, usually to someone who has retired. Sporting legends are people who accomplish great things during their career. I'm sure in 15-20 years time they'll be calling players like Scott, Furyk, Mickelson, Singh, Els etc "Legends".
gilligog 3 years ago
And.. if you gave the Golden Bear of old a brand new set of clubs from today and threw him in the current PGA tour, he would struggle. Just as Tiger would struggle if you did the opposite. But, if Tiger was playing 30 years ago and had been using old equipemnt his whole life, you bet he'd dominate, just as the Bear would dominate if he was playing now and had been using modern clubs his whole life!
My Point? It's very hard to compare golfers and their skills of today with golfers of yesteryear.
gilligog 3 years ago
In Jack Nicklauses career, he won 18 majors. At age 33, Tiger has won 13 majors. I believe TIger is going to beat Nicklauses records and will be the greatest golfer of all time. In addition, Tiger Woods will be the first billionaire athelete in 2010.
Tsoprtony 4 years ago
And as for the arguement as to who is better, its a classic arguement, who's the best of the lot? Snead? Nelson? Hagen? Jones? Hogan? Nicklaus? Woods?, all we have to go on is tournaments and majors.... I believe Hogan was a fantastic ball-striker, prob the best..but he was a poor putter! (relative to the standard of golf we are talking about). I think Tiger is the best...maybe not now but time will tell.
They are my personal opinions, im a PGA pro and golf is my passion.
eirejono 4 years ago
out of interest how did you become a pro other than being a great golfer
tomsta3 4 years ago
Its actually a college degree course now, im based in Ireland so I did it in the uk. If your in the states, have a check on the USPGA website, should give you good info there. If you have a hcp of 3 or less you can apply I think. Its a good career if its something you enjoy.
eirejono 4 years ago
thanks alot I am also in Ireland and have always wondered how
tomsta3 4 years ago
What Gary Player is saying there makes absolute sense. A flat wrist at top of backswing is one factor that may relate to Tiger swinging the club on and out-in swing path through the ball. The only shots you can hit with that swing path are a slice, hook, push slice, pull hook and a fade. When Tiger struggles, what shot does he go back to? A fade.
eirejono 4 years ago
What Gary Player is saying there makes absolute sense. A flat wrist at top of backswing is one factor that may relate to Tiger swinging the club on and out-in swing path through the ball. The only shots you can hit with that swing path are a slice, hook, push slice, pull hook and a fade. When Tiger struggles, what shot does he go back to? A fade.
eirejono 4 years ago
What does he say at 0:33?
"...the club does that-a-burt."
???
What the deuce...hehehe...
paulski5 4 years ago
Isn't Tiger going for a more two-plan like swing recently? Closer to ball, and higher top, quieter hips. Allt that will most probably remove some of that one-planer hardcore flat wrist he had before. All good things IMO, and Tiger been playing awesome lately.
TheRealOzzie234 4 years ago
If you look at tigers swing now his right foot does not lift as much as in the still frame they are showing. That has been somthing he has been woorking on. Gary is on the money, He is hitting off his front toe there is no (foot)roll to the left, you end up having problems when you right foot looks like that at impact. It also leads to other swing issues.
shifty1960 4 years ago
All Gary Player was saying is that Tiger is too flat (wrist wise) at the top of his swing...its a problem tiger talks about all the time. there is absolutely no question that Player praises Tiger here and elsewhere.
The golf swing is a work in progress. good, fair criticism is always welcome even for tiger woods, if you ever see Tiger's interviews he says so himself, esp. when the help is coming from a legend like Player.
alihaiderm 4 years ago
Thats one thing great about golf, there is always something to get better at, even the greatest players never stopped striving to improve.
robertoaus 4 years ago
Judging by this video, Gary player is not a racist. he says Tiger does one thing wrong and compliments him the rest of the time.
texashigh10 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
look gary Tiger is easily going to be the best golfer ever at the end of his career.He is 50 times better than Hogan ever was so get with the future.Tiger's swing obviously works if he wins all the time so gary is pure jelous.
tomsta3 4 years ago
There is a difference between being a better player and having a better swing. Tiger Woods has a problem with going left with and misses a lot of fairways but his great play out of the rough and his superior putting. Hogan= better more efficient swing, Tiger= better player with the best mental game, most competitive player ever, one of the most powerful players ever, and his upper body strength really helps him out of the rough which minimizes the mistakes he makes off the tee.
texashigh10 4 years ago
That's absolutely ridiculous...I bet Tiger (Eldrick) would even disagree with you. You always have to improve. If there is a problem then fix it. Plain and simple. And Tiger was not "50 times better than Hogan." He still looks up to the man and the ballstriking skill he achieved. What I think........is that you should think next time you write something.
paulski5 4 years ago
Look paulski I am 15 years old and I have a handicap of 4 I know what i'm on about ..... unlike you. Golf is my fav sport and I watch Tiger all the time and have seen him at the ryder cup and nothing compares to the sound of Tiger hitting the ball FACT. so don't fuck with me again.
tomsta3 4 years ago
Haha. That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. I don;t care if you are 15 and play on the PGA Tour...you still don't have a clue what you're talking about.
You have balls though. Esp. for a 15 year old.
paulski5 4 years ago
I know just about everything there is to know about the golf swing if you want proof i'll post my swing on you tube just for you....
ps.I watched your swing and it is ugly man.
tomsta3 4 years ago
Well Tomsta3, that's a big boast for anyone to make - "I know everything there is to know about the golf swing".
Looked at your vid and yes, you have a decent swing there. However, you were unbalanced on the finish of "My Golf Swing" (FACT), so you might want to work on stability through the hitting zone and then all the way through to the finish. If you are in balance all the way through, stands to reason you'll be more in control of the shots and the handicap of 3 might even get better...
rne1971 2 years ago
tiger is better than tiger and hogan, his swing is obviosly workn fyn faw him
samycleveland 4 years ago
did you even watch the video, all Player does is complement Tiger and his achievements
polygman 4 years ago
This explanation by Gary Player was an epiphany in regard to keeping the arms close to the body in the hitting zone, the cupped left hand.
B423E 4 years ago
this video must have been made before hoylake and southern hills. if a course is really baked out, woods has discovered that irons off the tee can win majors. What kind of test is it where the champion doesn't use the most difficult club in the bag for the entire tournament?
rw5791 4 years ago
Matt, Player only won 9 majors. WTF does he know about the golf swing?
nhsir 4 years ago
More than you and a lot of other people, that's what.
Sviolinist 4 years ago
doesn't come down from the inside? are u retarded... if he came in from the outside he wouldn't be a pro u maroon
MattJones1418 4 years ago
Player is half right, only because he played with a 2-plane swing and not a 1-plane swing. While it's true that Hogan kept his wrist underneath and cupped his left wrist at the top, the reason Hogan cupped his wrist at the top was to produce a fade, and along with a weak grip, he was able to stop hooking the ball. Tiger was having trouble here because his upper arms became detached from his upper torso, and were independent of his body, not because of wrist position.
OlaFowble 4 years ago
na... tiger's having trouble cuz he's not been gettin any for the last couple months, now that elin's popped he can settle back in
MattJones1418 4 years ago
gary player is right. tiger takes the club to the top in the wrong position. with his left wrist totally flat, it means his first movement is downward, rather than round and in front of his body. the club stays so much behind his body towards the ball he needs a huge amount of wrist correction to save it, so he has to save it every shot! if he could correct this, he would win every tournament, if he doesnt already
pecky1234 4 years ago
Yeah, you could swing the club any way really, as long as you can repeat it and repeat it under pressure :)
am041350 4 years ago
I'll second that. In fact, if you hit a slice 90% of the time, you can always change your trajectory direction to compensate for that (not that I recommend this at all, but people do these things) -
Sviolinist 4 years ago
Flat left hand at the top is a square clubface, cupped is and open clubface and bowed is a closed clubface. So is player telling tiger he should have an open clubface at the top. The downsing is a natural unwinding of the body, if done correctly everything falls into place and the clubhead is retured square to target line at impact with a flat wrist at the top.
am041350 4 years ago
Excellent analysis by Player. World class stuff.
robtsaunders 4 years ago
fredarn in 2000 when tiger was hitting over 80 percent of greens and someone told you to bow your wrist like tiger is doing now you wouldve thought it was wrong
snoopydan69 4 years ago
bobby jones & ben hogan are the most beautiful swings ever. Bobby jones for me is the most beautiful from the back, period.
pawarren 4 years ago
notice how it was across the line and often shut, his hips were so so so active which caused the club to 'lay' down behind him which forced him to flip his hands and forearms over to try and square the clubface up. His new swing focuses on a more one plane action which keeps his ball flight and trajectory more consistent, he can manipulate the flight very easily now, he also has a very different release of the golf club now than he had with butch harmon,
armanijeans4 5 years ago
it's a much more natural release now, with butch it was very flippy, but now he lets the club release naturally, if you want to copy his swing motion at the moment forget it, it is extremely complicated and will take years to get anywhere near the ideal swing plane, remember it took tiger 2 years to master it and hes the most talented golfer ever.
armanijeans4 5 years ago
Gary please please stick to playing
dionsmith007 5 years ago
Hmm, trying to compare Hogan To Woods is wrong both in terms of their individual approach to the game and their natural abilities.Hogan in his day was using heavy small headed inferior equipment,Woods on the other hand is using the latest terchnology,Most good golfers know Hogan is the gold standard,his work ethic was Legendary and his swing evolved over time,Woods on the other hand is unsurpassed in terms of natural ability NOT SWING,Can anyone measure talent??
dionsmith007 5 years ago
Yup Gary Player doesn't know what he's talking about. Watch the beginning closely. Hogan actually takes the club inside more than tiger does on the backswing. Gary's analysis actually says Tiger takes it inside more than Hogan which is just not true. The reason why Hogan cups his wrist because he takes the club inside.
Tradewind4 5 years ago
hehe you jest surely? You ever seen tiger up close? He hits like 99% of shots soooo pure and clean is just scary! People hang on to this Hogan ball-striking thing because they don't like new talent coming through and destroying scoring records.
dolfinack 5 years ago
Bullshit of Gary!!! Having the wrist like Tige does isbetter then the Hogans wrist! Because Tigen can attack the ball the same way he got up, it's sort of a one-plane swing, while hogans have to compensate.
fredarn 5 years ago
paulski, I think YOU don't know what you're talking about. Player's offering his thoughts, and if I remember, Moe Norman said the same thing bout Tiger's right heel. Don't be such a hypocrite either, because I have a feeling that if Tiger gave you a couple of tips, you would gladly listen, JUST cause he's Tiger. He also writes instructions for the GD mags. So how bout you say, Tiger should take it easy on the teachings too? Because in your world, Tiger is holding instruction back just as much.
leoseanster 5 years ago
(3rd post I know I know)
He's such a good presenter it makes it sound like he knows exactly what he's talking about...golf needs less of this 100%. Less talkers and more ppl who know. I think Player is communicating some observations based on feel etc.
paulski5 5 years ago
I think he should stick to playing golf and not trying to teach the mechanics of the swing, frankly. I can't stand it when ppl talk like they know how everything works. Sure- he was a great golfer...but that doesn't mean he's qualified to really really analyze a swing. But everyone will hang on every single word- just cause he's Gary Player. This is the kind of thing that holds instruction back. I think Player should take it easy. He don't know everything.
paulski5 5 years ago
Player doesn't know what he's talking about. Firstly, his wrist was flat in his prime. Secondly, he prolly took a strong grip when he showed us the bent wrist. (which would be fine) Third, he generalizes way too much. This will not fix Tiger. You can fade it with a flat left wrist. (and so did Hogan....look up some pics)
paulski5 5 years ago
You can go on and on about how these two swings are different largely due to technical reasons. No one makes the obvious distinction that Ben Hogan is 5'8-5'9" and Woods is 6'whatever. Why don't we compare Nick Faldo and Corey Pavin next? Neither one can swing like the other and be succesful.
reflectivegoat 5 years ago
Ben Hogan cupped his wrists in an effort to further open the clubface due to his problems with a hook in his early years. Tiger's never had those problems. Plus, Tiger extends his arms away from his body to create a bigger arc. Hogan kept everything tight and connected. My point is that they'll never look the same on a split screen. It's silly to ask one to be like the other.
foamjack 5 years ago
displacement, gravity, time, blah blah
Yank and Jerk mean something in physics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerk
After reading that could one say that Tiger Woods hits the ball with so much Yank that it Jerks like a sonofabitch.
abi4life 5 years ago
Haha, I think you might be right about that.
hisairness2340 5 years ago
Actual live movement from point A to B ... sure, physics. But to talk about a drive that's time is past...like last weeks bomb and how "long" it was... it's geometry at that point.
abi4life 5 years ago
All due respect to Gary Player though. He knows better than I how to play golf.
hisairness2340 5 years ago
Not to be rude but your still not talking at all about the point "Mr. Player" was attempting to make...
Geometry states the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.
abi4life 5 years ago
Yes I agree that the point he makes is that Hogans swing approaches more from the inside as a result of him being less flat and more tucked at the top but thats not what I was referring to when I made the comment. I was only referring to his analysis of the videos when he freezes them "at impact."
hisairness2340 5 years ago
As long as we're arguing like children...translation, which is basically movement of an object from point A to point B, is a vector. Vectors are covered in physics not geometry.
hisairness2340 5 years ago
It is true that Hogan approaches a little more from the inside. He will probably hit a draw but a draw cannot go as far as a straight ball because physics says that the shortest distance to a point is a straight line. In Hogan's day, all they had was persimmon which is not nearly as forgiving as a 460cc Ti driver. You had to work the drive into the fairway. Tiger with the more forgiving driver is much more able to work on just hitting a straight ball which will achieve more distance.
hisairness2340 5 years ago
Disregard the last comment. He totally missed the point Gary was making. Gary's teaching here has NOTHING to do with the position of the club head in comparison to Tigers. He's talking about the wrist at the top and the width of space left between Tigers arms and body.
abi4life 5 years ago
Please don't be rude. I didn't say anything about the position of the clubhead. If you'll notice, Gary made a point, and even drew the little circle, highlighting the fact that Hogan's arm is close to his body "at impact." The video of Hogan's swing is not frozen at impact but a frame before.
hisairness2340 5 years ago
I totally respect Gary Player. He is an accomplished player and has the wins to back up whatever he says about golf. However, what he says about the video isn't quite right. The video is stopped when Tiger is fully released into the ball while the Hogan video is paused before he is fully released.
hisairness2340 5 years ago
Did anyone else catch him say "It's black and white". Was that some sort of underlying racist comment!!?
Battymo 5 years ago
Racist? Get over yourself. It was "black and white" as in "plain to see and irrefutable" - like in saying "there it is in black and white". He could also have meant opposites, same as you might say "chalk and cheese". No way did I see that as that any reference to race.
rne1971 2 years ago
Woah, I actually saw this video on t.v. when i was watching academy live!
shiznet 6 years ago