In my opinion the debate is greatly hampered by the term "Calvinism" whether "Hyper" or otherwise. Anyone who objectively looks at the latitude with which these terms are employed in theology, must conclude that there is no consensus regarding their definition. That's unfortunate, but true; and is a big problem that churns up a lot of dust without cleansing anyone's understanding. The discussion is more precise if we focus on the underlying doctrine(s) and scriptures.
"Predestination is not fatalism." If you actually do believe in predestination then you are actually fatalistic. Since you don't actually believe in anything you have no problem.
If you're predestined to throw the rope, you throw the rope. Your less than a robot in your scenario. There is only one actor (technical sense) in Calvin's absurd-o-rama, and that is God. If anyone else does anything of their own actual will, God is less than sovereign.
The Bible never says that Esau wasn't saved.That is an assumption and thats all.And besides it wasn't talking about two people it was talking about two nations.STOP DISTORTING MY FATHERS WORD!!!
@bluetew37 Please study this before you accuse Calvinists of distorting the Word of God. Also, remember that the most holy and influential man of God were Calvinists, with a few exceptions. Jonathan Edwards, Charles Spurgeon, John Piper. John MacArthur, R.C. Sproul, J.I. Packer, Richard Baxter, Hudson Taylor, Augustine, Calvin (obviously), John Bunyan, and all of the early Church fathers believed in what is now called Calvinism. Study carefully before you reject. It's very important.
@MyBelovedIsJesus All Calvinism has done is cause men to fall away from God out of depression because they believed what some Calvinist said that they are not loved by God because they were not chosen according to Gods sovereign election. Calvism is a heresy and has introduced heresies into the church by distorting Gods word. The Bible proves it over and over.
@MyBelovedIsJesus These people were weak in their understanding of scripture and Calvinst took and continue to take advantage of that. On the surface calvinist look like they have it figured out but when you start actually reading the WHOLE scriptures, you find out that calvinism is left wanting. Also why do you believe those men you mentioned are so holy? Becasue their pastors? They've made a name for themselves? I can name just as many that disagree with calvinism.
@bluetew37 - The bible says Esau was hated by God. Where does the bible associate eternal salvation with the hatred of God? Moreover the national argument does not hold in light of Romans 9.
According to Phil Johnson (great theologian) A hyper-Calvinist is someone who either:
1. Denies that the gospel call applies to all who hear, OR
2. Denies that faith is the duty of every sinner, OR
3. Denies that the gospel makes any "offer" of Christ, salvation, or mercy to the non-elect (or denies that the offer of divine mercy is free and universal),
4. OR Denies that there is such a thing as "common grace,"
5. OR Denies that God has any sort of love for the non-elect.
@MaharlikaAWA According to the videos of this guy (fivepointbaptist) I have watched he seriously falls into 1 or more of the errors of hyper-calvinism as well as his friend 1tmoch. Yet they try to deny it. Delusional.
why dont people actually take the time to READ from the original sources if they want to know what the position teaches?? unbelievable. btw....MacArthur is a 5 point calvinist
what is called 5-point Calvinism is a misnomer. what would be called Calvinism encompasses more than the 5-points. The 5-points themselves were a response to the 5-key aspects declared by Armenius. To have a right understanding of what is Calvinism, it would be necessary to include all that is addressed in Calvin's Institutes-which involves more than the 5-pointed response of TULIP against the Joseph Armenius-who was a student of Calvin by the way.
Freewill from a Calvinist perspective like this: Put a man in a solid steel room, one door, with a key...another solid steel room, no door, no key. He free to do what he want within the room but he will remain there no matter what, and the other guy can walk out and is set up for him to get out, or be free.(I could be wrong, but this is what I see).
Revised: Freewill from a Calvinist perspective like this: Put a man in a solid steel room, one door, with key...another solid steel room, no door, no key. He free to do what he want within the room but he will remain there no matter what, and the other guy can walk out and is set up for him to get out, or be free.(I could be wrong, but this is what I see).
Both Salvation and Damnation are unmerit, and undeserved actually. It's not base on deeds(good or evil): no one earns Hell or Heaven. That is the logical conclusion. Just a Judge saying in the doctors room to a baby, your going to jail no matter what, and the other baby is never going to go to Jail. Then they go throught the whole legal process, which is pointless. I red all JPiperJMac(100s of sermons), but I am no longer a 5 point(scripture says different: Im not basing this off emotionism)
I didnt know John MacArthur used to be a 4 pointer. I know he is a 5 point calvinist because I read many of his books as he is my favorite theologian and bible teacher and pastor.
The first characteristic he gave of being a hyper calvinist is not really accurate. 5 Point Calvinists will say that if you do not believe the GOSPEL, you are UNREGENERATE. This is different from saying you are not SAVED. Either Arminianism proclaims the biblical Gospel, or Calvinism does. Take your pick, one or the other. One is the Gospel in a nutshell, the other is not. There is no middle ground. Arminians are either regenerate believing what they believe, or they are not.
@October31st1517 - There are as many definitions of Hyper-Calvinism as there are recipes for fruit cake. This is made doubly-true by the fact that any definition of Hyper-Calvinism relies upon some definition of Calvinism and there are as many definitions of Calvinism as there are recipes for Holiday Chex Mix. :) All that said, the debate becomes more crisp and profitable when the focus is on the atonement, regeneration and the nature of the gospel and not on unbiblical nomenclature.
In my opinion the debate is greatly hampered by the term "Calvinism" whether "Hyper" or otherwise. Anyone who objectively looks at the latitude with which these terms are employed in theology, must conclude that there is no consensus regarding their definition. That's unfortunate, but true; and is a big problem that churns up a lot of dust without cleansing anyone's understanding. The discussion is more precise if we focus on the underlying doctrine(s) and scriptures.
theearstohear 1 month ago
4 point Calvinism... inconsistent fake Calvinism
blakodeel 1 month ago
the folly of christian exclusivism.....poor poor souls, may God open their eyes and deliver them from the clutches of the Adversary
david1611kjv 2 months ago
Good points... Good short vid
adrianuri 4 months ago
"Predestination is not fatalism." If you actually do believe in predestination then you are actually fatalistic. Since you don't actually believe in anything you have no problem.
If you're predestined to throw the rope, you throw the rope. Your less than a robot in your scenario. There is only one actor (technical sense) in Calvin's absurd-o-rama, and that is God. If anyone else does anything of their own actual will, God is less than sovereign.
chilimaan 5 months ago
You can have will and God still predestined what you will do because God is God and He knows the ending before the beginning. :)
malikzzzzz 5 months ago
The Bible never says that Esau wasn't saved.That is an assumption and thats all.And besides it wasn't talking about two people it was talking about two nations.STOP DISTORTING MY FATHERS WORD!!!
bluetew37 6 months ago
@bluetew37 Please study this before you accuse Calvinists of distorting the Word of God. Also, remember that the most holy and influential man of God were Calvinists, with a few exceptions. Jonathan Edwards, Charles Spurgeon, John Piper. John MacArthur, R.C. Sproul, J.I. Packer, Richard Baxter, Hudson Taylor, Augustine, Calvin (obviously), John Bunyan, and all of the early Church fathers believed in what is now called Calvinism. Study carefully before you reject. It's very important.
MyBelovedIsJesus 3 months ago
@MyBelovedIsJesus All Calvinism has done is cause men to fall away from God out of depression because they believed what some Calvinist said that they are not loved by God because they were not chosen according to Gods sovereign election. Calvism is a heresy and has introduced heresies into the church by distorting Gods word. The Bible proves it over and over.
bluetew37 3 months ago
@MyBelovedIsJesus These people were weak in their understanding of scripture and Calvinst took and continue to take advantage of that. On the surface calvinist look like they have it figured out but when you start actually reading the WHOLE scriptures, you find out that calvinism is left wanting. Also why do you believe those men you mentioned are so holy? Becasue their pastors? They've made a name for themselves? I can name just as many that disagree with calvinism.
bluetew37 3 months ago
@bluetew37 - The bible says Esau was hated by God. Where does the bible associate eternal salvation with the hatred of God? Moreover the national argument does not hold in light of Romans 9.
theearstohear 1 month ago
EVERYTIME I watch a video with Captain, he ALWAYS says some crap about robots! LOL
AugmentedMinor 8 months ago
According to Phil Johnson (great theologian) A hyper-Calvinist is someone who either:
1. Denies that the gospel call applies to all who hear, OR
2. Denies that faith is the duty of every sinner, OR
3. Denies that the gospel makes any "offer" of Christ, salvation, or mercy to the non-elect (or denies that the offer of divine mercy is free and universal),
4. OR Denies that there is such a thing as "common grace,"
5. OR Denies that God has any sort of love for the non-elect.
MaharlikaAWA 8 months ago
@MaharlikaAWA According to the videos of this guy (fivepointbaptist) I have watched he seriously falls into 1 or more of the errors of hyper-calvinism as well as his friend 1tmoch. Yet they try to deny it. Delusional.
MaharlikaAWA 8 months ago
why dont people actually take the time to READ from the original sources if they want to know what the position teaches?? unbelievable. btw....MacArthur is a 5 point calvinist
atoam 10 months ago
whoop whoop for da children of wrath!
tetrahydroscope 10 months ago
what is called 5-point Calvinism is a misnomer. what would be called Calvinism encompasses more than the 5-points. The 5-points themselves were a response to the 5-key aspects declared by Armenius. To have a right understanding of what is Calvinism, it would be necessary to include all that is addressed in Calvin's Institutes-which involves more than the 5-pointed response of TULIP against the Joseph Armenius-who was a student of Calvin by the way.
HermitintheRain 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Freewill from a Calvinist perspective like this: Put a man in a solid steel room, one door, with a key...another solid steel room, no door, no key. He free to do what he want within the room but he will remain there no matter what, and the other guy can walk out and is set up for him to get out, or be free.(I could be wrong, but this is what I see).
Creationcreed 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Revised: Freewill from a Calvinist perspective like this: Put a man in a solid steel room, one door, with key...another solid steel room, no door, no key. He free to do what he want within the room but he will remain there no matter what, and the other guy can walk out and is set up for him to get out, or be free.(I could be wrong, but this is what I see).
Creationcreed 11 months ago
Comment removed
Creationcreed 11 months ago
Comment removed
Creationcreed 11 months ago
Both Salvation and Damnation are unmerit, and undeserved actually. It's not base on deeds(good or evil): no one earns Hell or Heaven. That is the logical conclusion. Just a Judge saying in the doctors room to a baby, your going to jail no matter what, and the other baby is never going to go to Jail. Then they go throught the whole legal process, which is pointless. I red all JPiperJMac(100s of sermons), but I am no longer a 5 point(scripture says different: Im not basing this off emotionism)
Creationcreed 11 months ago
I didnt know John MacArthur used to be a 4 pointer. I know he is a 5 point calvinist because I read many of his books as he is my favorite theologian and bible teacher and pastor.
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
I never knew i was a calvinest per se. But i keep finding so much truth here.
fakebrake 1 year ago
The first characteristic he gave of being a hyper calvinist is not really accurate. 5 Point Calvinists will say that if you do not believe the GOSPEL, you are UNREGENERATE. This is different from saying you are not SAVED. Either Arminianism proclaims the biblical Gospel, or Calvinism does. Take your pick, one or the other. One is the Gospel in a nutshell, the other is not. There is no middle ground. Arminians are either regenerate believing what they believe, or they are not.
HamtramckGrace 2 years ago
5 Point Calvinism is Hyper-Calvinism? Where did he get that?
October31st1517 2 years ago
My guess would be Dave Hunt or Roman Geisler.
fivepointbaptist 2 years ago
@fivepointbaptist - ROMAN Geisler. Now that's funny. :)
theearstohear 1 month ago
@October31st1517 - There are as many definitions of Hyper-Calvinism as there are recipes for fruit cake. This is made doubly-true by the fact that any definition of Hyper-Calvinism relies upon some definition of Calvinism and there are as many definitions of Calvinism as there are recipes for Holiday Chex Mix. :) All that said, the debate becomes more crisp and profitable when the focus is on the atonement, regeneration and the nature of the gospel and not on unbiblical nomenclature.
theearstohear 1 month ago