@TheVikingChieftain I don't really understand gibberish, but I think you are trying to ask me something... or is it, tell me something... ? What we do is NOT choreographed, and is all LIVE, in the moment combat demonstrations.
@skallagrimm to e fair to him your varangains wouldnt be either.. actually they might well have been somewhat portly, being so richly provided food and wine by the emporer.
Some faggy people say I'm cheating whenever I try to do something clever or tricky like kicking their shield open or taking their weapon using my kung fu skillz or even filling my sheath with dirt before the fight and throwing it in their face... Buncha fags, Its always cheating If they're losing.
in regards to being historically accurate would i be able to get away with a norman style sword in a varangian reenactment group,
im just figuring if i hav a norman style sword itcan be used in other medieval period reenactments down the track as well. thats my figuring at least.
@elgostine what period Varangian are u talking about? U know they started around AD998, long before the Normans... as long as you are talking about the later Varangian period, there isn't an issue with using a Norman's sword.
@skallagrimm the NVG site says pretty much 11th century, i asked the 'master at arms' of the group near me and he mentiond the fact that during the later half of the 11th century alot of varangians were saxons freeing displacement after hastings
bw, thanx for mentioning the NVG i turned up to one of their training sessions after talking to the head and they were kind enough to lend me a spare helm, shield, bracer hard leather gauntlet, and mamman type axe, to let me see what it was like. thx.
@elgostine i recieved 2 wounds, one on my left thumb *yes the one holding the shield.* and on my left thigh from a rus sabre during a 3v3 shield wall excercise. it seems ominous that all my wounds from enemies are on the side my shield was held.
i found i liked the axe a fair bit, especially its hooking capability, cept, i couldnt take the obvios nxt step and stab the guy, due to axes lacking a stabbing point, and it was outranged by the sword as well.
@WiggaMachiavelli we are fighting with two weapons, but its not really the same as Florentine. And how can you dispute that Vikings may have used two weapons at times? I can't say they did for sure either, but the opportunity arises quite often when fighting.
@WiggaMachiavelli Vikings (and Saxons) carried a knife called a seax, basically a medieval Germanic machete. It was used in every day life as a tool and it was especially useful in the shield wall because it was short so easily usable but still packed a decent punch. If someone lost their shield the chances are they'd fight with their sword and seax instead. Nowhere near the style of Florentine as you probably figured. It was just a very convenient thing to do. Forgive me if you knew all that
Not the particulars of use - thanks for that. I know loosely of the seax by the name "scramasax" and intuitively I imagine it's a namesake of the Saxons. Seems the "barbarians" would be caught in a trend of being named after their weapons - next to mind would be the Franks.
@WiggaMachiavelli You're along the right lines with the naming thing. I'm not sure which way around it was, but there was also a Norse god called ... Seaxnet (had to look that up to remember exactly), who nobody knows much about at all, but lots of people reckon that the names of both Saxons and the Seax came from him. We know virtually nothing about him but if an entire Germanic people was named after him he must have been important.
Not vikingly? So a Samurai fighting with his katana in one hand and the wakisashi in the other is not very Samuraiy??? It could never happen???? Here is a tip how to not seem like a stupid person; think before you speak/write
Not befitting the regular habits ascribed to the Vikings, no. Just like a busi fighting with a katana in one hand and the wakizasi in the other would not befit the regular habits ascribed to busi. That's not to say that it's totally impossible, could never happen, is wrong, etc. It would just be removed from the norm.
Here is a tip for you: Entering discourse with an aggressive attitude, especially when you've made mistaken inferences, makes you look a mouldy twat.
"Not befitting the regular habits ascribed to the vikings"???? So if a Viking dropped his shield or had it hacked to pieces... he would never pull out a dagger or his seax to wield with the free hand???? And by the way... No one actually knows what qualifies as "the regular habits ascribed to the vikings". Sword or axe in one hand, + a dagger what ever in the other hand, is not a very far fetched idea. Its not exactly rocket science to use your free hand if you have no shield
You're talking out of your arse, and you ignored (or were too thick to understand) what I said in my post.
It's overwhelmingly likely that such a situation has arisen some time in the past. Just because it's possible, or believable, doesn't mean that it's normal or common. So, while it is conceivable that, perhaps, if a Viking were to drop his shield or have it hack to pieces, he may use another weapon in the hand that had been holding the shield - but that is not all.
You see, we actually do, through things like primary historical sources, both literary and physical, have an idea of how the Vikings thought - to the extent that re-enactments are viable as a display of historicity. Of course, that's not to say that re-enactment-style fights must always conform to what we know of the times - but I have room enough to say that staging such a fight is not quite illustrative of conventional Viking combat, or some such thing.
And, just for your information, in most situations, having a weapon in your other hand is a disadvantage, since it detracts from your ability to properly utilise your main weapon.
@WiggaMachiavelli that's not exactly accurate either. A Viking prided himself in the ability to kill with either hand, and to say they would have never used two weapons is inaccurate. There isn't providence for it, but there are mentions in the sagas of wielding two weapons at once... not to mention the well made point of losing ones shield. I speak from experience when I say pulling a backup weapon is much better than not pulling one. If you cant operate two at once,... get better
"This" isn't valid experience as far as what works in a life-or-death battle, unfortunately. It looks like good fun, and I'm sure you have to know what you're doing to make sure that it is both convincing and safe, but all the same...
@WiggaMachiavelli Says you, and you are? Besides being no one of consequence, you sit there and argue points that are already known and agreed upon... then attempt to put down something you could probably never do.
And my experience includes much more than what you see here... i am confident what i know would definately work in a life and death battle. So now what?
Says I, a scholar of history, and someone who is able to observe this and arrive at the perfectly sensible conclusion that it is not the most dire of circumstances. I make a statement, and become frustrated when somebody argues with me over a misinterpretation of that statement, despite my explanations that they have misunderstood.
Pray, tell me, does your experience include actual battle in which you were in danger? Contemporary experience? No? Then your confidence is misplaced.
Oh, @WiggaMachiavelli is a scholar... well, I give self proclaimed scholars respect due any book reader. All insight without hands on experience, which I do have as a matter of fact . I do not boast anything, simply answering the question of experience. I've defended my life and others' more than a few times. The only thing misplaced here are your comments which prove to the rest of us, that you can't get everything from a book.
I was speaking of regular life experiences WiggaMachiavelli, not of this. Though plenty of people understand that my experiemce in this does count for plenty.
And if your pussy is sore, quit playing with the big boys. What ya gonna do throw a book at me?
Regular life experiences don't tend to have much relevance to Viking battle re-enactments, you know. I can assume that those who "understand" how useful your "experiemce" is are just as pathetic as are you.
I wonder, if I were to come back this time next month, would you be so irritable?
If my feelings were hurt, why is it that you have resorted to insults, I wonder? For forty-five, you certainly act a fair bit younger. I guess, what with your playing make-believe, mental and emotional immaturity was to be expected. Or maybe it's just the Asperger's Syndrome?
Haaa, WiggaMachiavelli is soooo witty... how do ya suppose that would serve you in a fight? You need to find the NVG down your way and let them hear how you feel about what we do... i bet you don't make it home.
You do realize that most things we "know" about vikings are "guestimates" based on rather biased christian point of views and records written down 200-300 years after the viking age ended. And how that explains how vikings behaved in battle, Im not quite sure. For instance, the Varangian Guard were claimed to have wide broad smiles on their faces when they went into battle with their dane-axes... now, does that mean that norse warriors "always" had a smile on them in battle?
I advise you to make a point of studying history and things like primary and secondary sources, and bias, before you decide to make comments about historical evidence.
And no, that would be an illogical conclusion. What we can tell from this, assuming it comes from a reliable (secondary, I should suppose) source, would be that the Varangian Guard were observed "to have wide broad smiles on their faces when they went into battle with their dane-axes" - no more, and no less.
Considering that Skallagrim is the guy with the sword and seas as I take it... his experience can be seen on many vids on youtube. But, still, viking history is still "guestimates". Hell, we dont even know why Heimdall is called the White God. Is it because he is white and shiny, or is it becaase he is punishing and vengeful, being the Vhite Aesir. One source that describes a norse temple even has Tor being a more prominent god than Oden.
And knowing so little about the Norse way of life as we do, I just find it incredible that someone would say that a warrior fighting with sword and seax does not feel "vikingly". Especially in a video that depicts a Holmgang/Envig between two warriors, and not proper Line Battle with a shieldwall. It is positively idiotic to even make the claim! And now I have turned into a troll, but damn it, as a Swede I feel I have the right to in this case =P
That doesn't really affect what I've explained above. Either way, "not strictly in line with the evidence that we have" is all that I meant. You got fired up about it, and then I got a little bit unpleasant, too, I'll admit.
And what's the relevance of Swedishness? To trolls, or to Vikings?
Relevance? Genetic memory since Im both Swedish and Norweigan. I have an interest in my ancestors whom we are actually discussing at the moment. And my genetic memory tells me that you have no clue what you are talking about. Since I have done military service in my country, I know that practicing combat is what makes you deadly in combat. And that Skallagrimm probably knows what works in a swordfight. Experience pawns bookreading... as does my genetic memory
Experience in life-or-death battle is what counts, as far as I'm concerned. Re-enactments based on a premise can not be used as evidence that the premise is historically accurate.
Technically, history is all completely unprovable. I want solid evidence, that can be shown without doubt to be falsified, that the Second World War actually occurred.
The fact that we can't totally prove something doesn't mean that we shouldn't trust the evidence that we do have. And what's more...
Filling the gaps is fine, as long as you recognise it as nothing more than filling the gaps with things that MIGHT be the case - but if you don't have evidence for them, and you do have evidence for other things, it is fair to pay more heed to the latter. That's all I've been trying to get at.
I wasn't talking about that guy, now, was I? For the record, it's no better or worse than the other, as far as I'm concerned - although, of course, going into battle with the shield and then wielding a weapon off-hand when the shield becomes unusable is a more justifiable case.
The small asshole never demonstrated any skill....nor he would ever have been in the army, prolly cleaning horse shit after cavalry would be is perfect career, bunch of fags....disgrace to old warriors and and real en, watch Joan Of Arc......after that u will not want to hold a sword.,
@MaxiBoOoY big talk from an dumb fuck brit, I don't how many times that you fucking brit boys come over here and we clean your clock. Come on over and we will bitch slap you again back across the pond you toothless wonder.
The weapons are obviously bluntened and the armour is of good quality to prevent injury, however battles like these generally make people have large bruises ;)
Fairly safe - I fight using a similar combat system and I own no body armour. All the weapons have blunted and rounded edges and all the blows are pulled. You end up with many bruses but generally nothing worse.
Mail (also maille, often given as chain mail or chain maille or chainmaille) is a type of armour consisting of small metal rings linked together in a pattern to form a mesh.
Where did I say anything about our weapons being sharp?
.....never happened.
and do tell, what law would I be breaking if I had? I have fought with sharp weapons before, and there is no law saying you can't.... just don't hurt the other guy.
someone said "are they sharp" or something like that.
attacking someone with a sharpened blade is assault with a deadly weapon, in the usa the charges are the same for gun assaults. in the uk the charges are more for guns (because they're illegal obviously)
also, note my use of language:
"IF skallagrimm claims" I'm asserting that you have made no such claim.
The "style" is in your face Viking. We ARE two brawlers goin' at it, ya tool. It's not supposed to be I.33, as it wasn't invented yet. But yes, we do that too. And we also practice Talhoffer longsword , as well. But, that is for another time....
Oh, and I'm certainly not angry as I have been replying to you with a smile on my face each time.... besides, you couldn't handle me angry, ya pasty little bitch. GRIN
stop being petty...recognise a typo when you see one.
your clothing style might be similar to the vikings but your fighting style isn't...did you honestly think i was talking about armour? also, if the vikings dual weilded they would use a throwing (hatchet) axe in their left hand (if right handed).
i'll check out your other videos to see if there's any evidence of training.
It looked like you were dressed as Vikings however there was several problems with your sword play. Vikings weren't stupid fighters or simple brawlers, they were good patient fighters that were brilliant at countering with a shield. You got the whole circling thing going right though but Vikings would rarely dual wield and I wouldn't think it would fair well against a shield. The person with the shield should have held the shield tight and shoved his weight against you throwing you off guard.
Yeah, the thing I love the most is when someone (especially Brits) talk a lot, but say nothing. You aren't telling us anything we don't already know.... and I'm referring to all the comments you've made on our vids.
Remember, these fights are done as entertainment for the public. Shall I critique yours with such blatant and obvious remarks? Oh wait, you don't have any.
Wow, you don't take criticism very well now do you, I came with comments that were fair yet informative with no intention on insulting.
Entertainment or not you state in your profile that "Our group does educational speaking demos and historical lectures about the Viking Age at events." So shouldn't you also include realism and accuracy in your combat?. I've noticed your part of a Viking group of which do shows, do you want to make it up for your audience or show them how it was really done?.
Realism and accuracy? That's an odd question coming from someone surrounded by Viking reenactors and historians in England, who do what they do. There are quite a few "corners cut" on both sides of the pond, by pretty much all groups. And usually for good reasons. But we have heard tribble and griping from overseas about many things done here, only to find Vike members there doing the same things.
By the way, we do explain the combat and how it's believed to be done. There is no known manual.
And the British part?, are you against my opinions simply because I'm British?... seems a petty reason to be against my opinions. I have nothing against you and I enjoy and encourage what your doing, it's brilliant work however I will show criticism and praise were they are deserved.
The Brit thing was just a poke, though we have a history with quite a few who, let's just say were more than eager to chime off about much of nothing or just be down right arrogant asses.
I may have come across a bit harsh, but understand that we have comments from well meaning folk as well as absolute morons. And sometimes a mood just strikes at the smallest of remarks... well meaning or not. My apoligies.
The person holding the shield most not be well trained with it as it fly's about every were and often leaves him open, another mistake was blade on blade parrying... you use the side of the blade to parry with real swords... you can get away with it using blunt swords but it does look inaccurate. Besides these few hitches... good fight I understand that there was no choreography here and it was improvised so it was interesting to watch. Just work on that shield combat.
Also I forgot to add since we wanted to get the crowd going and let them know it was steel we were using and Skallagrimm and I were the first one to fight and the SCA was there we wanted to let people know that there is a difference between us and them.
Yes I realised that yesterday when I looked further down the comments, I didn't realise you were baiting, I simply mistook this for a poor defence and for that I apologise it's a mistake on my behalf. I enjoy the fact that your fights go unchoreographed however you have to expect criticism and I hand out both praise and criticism I'm not here to mock anyone here. However I don't think it's very adult to respond to criticism with "Stupid Brit" I don't hassle your because of you nationality.
Don't worry and Skallagrimm is a great guy, he is just so passionate for Viking reenactment. On criticism well it is a vid which is only 2 dimensional but I understand. Do you do any viking reenactment? and also the "brit" thing is a long story in which this is not the time or place right now for that explanation.Late
I can understand his passion I can understand, even the name shows it, unless I'm mistaken His name is of Egal Skallagrimson (I think that's how it's spelt) The Viking that killed a lad for beating him in a competition. Sadly no I don't do any Viking re-enactments I haven't the resources nor the funding but despite this I train often with the sword mainly with Short Sword and shield although I'm getting pretty good with the longsword.
Mainly he took the name Skallagrimm means "Bold and Ugly" I believe and also I wouldn't think Norse reenactment would that be much unless the UK groups are killer in their membership fee. I think you only need to start is, Helm, gloves and a scram and of course has experience and maybe funds you could climb the latter of the Norse reenactment world. Awesome to hear about your training. Talk to you later.
it's not the membership fee that's the killer it's finding them lol, me and my sparring partner were talking about trying to set one up some time in the near future but well as said it's funding and resources which is the problem at the moment and also training, it's trying to find people who are A) Passionate about doing such things and B) Are mature and trusted enough to be trained. The third part is probably the tricky part, getting the license to train and perform reenactments.
License? What license? You just do it. At least that's how we got started, just jump right in. Book a couple of shows, or get your foot in the door with an event that's already established and do it.
It's not brain surgery, it's just sword fighting. The best part is you will keep on learning as you go.(because you don't die from it) After nearly twenty years and thousands of fights, I still get surprised from time to time. And there's always something new to learn.
That may be the case over in America however I'm not 100% over the rules over here, I need to check if I need a license to be training people to use weaponry and such. I just pick up a sword and do it but it's just me and my cousin so the law don't notice such a thing, if it was a more large scaled they might notice and I may be doing some thing illegal... stupid British laws. The Brit thing... never mind, I'm over it.
As for the Brit thing, never mind, I won't hassle you or Skallagrimm for an explanation, however if one of us as wrong any of you in the past please note were not all the person. Certainly not me.
And get over the Brit thing.... no it wasn't you I meant it towards, but some of your comments were very "British" like. It's called a generalization.
It's like saying NY city cabbies are all towelheads. Certainly they are not, but enough are that one might have to ride in a lot of cabs to disprove it.
I don't see how the origin of their country dictates their skill. Of course there's no great history of Sword training in America as by the time America was starting up as a full country Guns were becoming the main form of combat and swords were used as a secondary weapon. However this doesn't mean they can't train to be proficient or even a master with the sword.
Do you mean in general, or in this particular vid?
Generally speaking, besides bashing and cleaving with an axe, hooking is the next best thing you can do with it. Hook the opponents arm or leg, his weapon or shield,....etc.
Regarding this vid though, I never gave him the chance after he dropped his shield to do much at all with his axe.
I don't get why so many dumbasses want to make comments aobut things that they have no clue about. What would you suggest a person "look into" with regards on fighting? There are no Viking combat manuals.... anywhere! Never have been, so we make it as realistic as possible. Show me a group doing it better!
These aren't expert things, it's just very obvious. Armed with a shield and sword, the loser of this fight repeatedly parries with the edge of his sword. For one this runs a high risk of breaking an iron age sword. Second he simply chooses not to use his shield for its main purpose. A shield is there as a weapon as well as defence, don't see any of that. You'll see at 0:06 that he uses the blade to parry a swipe that goes nowhere near his body, again at 0:17. I could go on.
Blah, blah, blah. It's a show you dumbass, and just because you have a need to hear yourself go on and on doesn't mean the rest of us need to indulge you. Of course you could go on, because that's all your good for is a lot of talk.... what do you do?
True about parrying with the sword in which it would ruin all swords not just iron age but and yes you are taught to use the flat of the blade but really in reality its not going to happen that often. I also know the shield is use on both def. and off. as I am the loser of this fight but one of my tactics that work SOMETIMES is to bait them closer inside for I am a short person and my reach is not that far but sir I assure you I know how to fight in the gear as much as you think we don't.
I've seen vids of my bf and his friends fighting live steel sans armor and it chills my blood! And I've heard the stories and seen the scars. No thanks! I'll stick to my boffing weapons and big-ass shield! =0)
Sure it's easy to be great when you hide behind large shields and wear that much shit. My group fought live steal, full force, un Choreographed, no armor! BTW my group dealt 3 draws of blood for victor. Then again we really were fighting.
Sure it's easy to be great when you can hide behind your clothing and talk that much shit. My group fought with real steel, full force, without improvising and NAKED! BTW my group dealt.. oh sorry, I have to go back to the asylum, i'll catch up with you next month when i'm having again access to the internets.
Hey Skallagrimm your videos are the best, are you one of the fighters???, sure you have been in wolin festival. See you on the battlefield, don´t stop fighting
@TheVikingChieftain I don't really understand gibberish, but I think you are trying to ask me something... or is it, tell me something... ? What we do is NOT choreographed, and is all LIVE, in the moment combat demonstrations.
skallagrimm 1 month ago
I knew knights were big, but not fat
jetsal 6 months ago
@jetsal first off, we aren't knights ya waterhead.
skallagrimm 6 months ago 4
@skallagrimm
Sorry chief
jetsal 6 months ago
@skallagrimm to e fair to him your varangains wouldnt be either.. actually they might well have been somewhat portly, being so richly provided food and wine by the emporer.
elgostine 4 months ago
Some faggy people say I'm cheating whenever I try to do something clever or tricky like kicking their shield open or taking their weapon using my kung fu skillz or even filling my sheath with dirt before the fight and throwing it in their face... Buncha fags, Its always cheating If they're losing.
GameFreaksStudios 7 months ago
in regards to being historically accurate would i be able to get away with a norman style sword in a varangian reenactment group,
im just figuring if i hav a norman style sword itcan be used in other medieval period reenactments down the track as well. thats my figuring at least.
elgostine 11 months ago
@elgostine what period Varangian are u talking about? U know they started around AD998, long before the Normans... as long as you are talking about the later Varangian period, there isn't an issue with using a Norman's sword.
skallagrimm 11 months ago
@skallagrimm as of yet im not sure what period,
elgostine 11 months ago
@skallagrimm the NVG site says pretty much 11th century, i asked the 'master at arms' of the group near me and he mentiond the fact that during the later half of the 11th century alot of varangians were saxons freeing displacement after hastings
bw, thanx for mentioning the NVG i turned up to one of their training sessions after talking to the head and they were kind enough to lend me a spare helm, shield, bracer hard leather gauntlet, and mamman type axe, to let me see what it was like. thx.
elgostine 11 months ago
@elgostine i recieved 2 wounds, one on my left thumb *yes the one holding the shield.* and on my left thigh from a rus sabre during a 3v3 shield wall excercise. it seems ominous that all my wounds from enemies are on the side my shield was held.
i found i liked the axe a fair bit, especially its hooking capability, cept, i couldnt take the obvios nxt step and stab the guy, due to axes lacking a stabbing point, and it was outranged by the sword as well.
though apparently i did well.
elgostine 11 months ago
Skallagrimm, do you ever do spear vs spear?
stupidguyx 11 months ago
@stupidguyx we have on occasion, but it's not very viable.
skallagrimm 11 months ago
Why is a Viking fighting Florentine? I'd pass it off, were the video not tagged as "Realistic".
WiggaMachiavelli 1 year ago
@WiggaMachiavelli we are fighting with two weapons, but its not really the same as Florentine. And how can you dispute that Vikings may have used two weapons at times? I can't say they did for sure either, but the opportunity arises quite often when fighting.
skallagrimm 1 year ago
@skallagrimm
Sorry, my mind jumped to florentine just because you had a short-sword and dagger. Still, doesn't strike me as particularly "Vikingly".
WiggaMachiavelli 1 year ago
@WiggaMachiavelli Vikings (and Saxons) carried a knife called a seax, basically a medieval Germanic machete. It was used in every day life as a tool and it was especially useful in the shield wall because it was short so easily usable but still packed a decent punch. If someone lost their shield the chances are they'd fight with their sword and seax instead. Nowhere near the style of Florentine as you probably figured. It was just a very convenient thing to do. Forgive me if you knew all that
666satanification666 1 year ago
@666satanification666
Not the particulars of use - thanks for that. I know loosely of the seax by the name "scramasax" and intuitively I imagine it's a namesake of the Saxons. Seems the "barbarians" would be caught in a trend of being named after their weapons - next to mind would be the Franks.
WiggaMachiavelli 1 year ago
@WiggaMachiavelli You're along the right lines with the naming thing. I'm not sure which way around it was, but there was also a Norse god called ... Seaxnet (had to look that up to remember exactly), who nobody knows much about at all, but lots of people reckon that the names of both Saxons and the Seax came from him. We know virtually nothing about him but if an entire Germanic people was named after him he must have been important.
666satanification666 1 year ago
@666satanification666
The god of small swords, perhaps?
WiggaMachiavelli 1 year ago
@WiggaMachiavelli Haha, perhaps. According to Wikipedia, he was featured in some Saxon marriage vows, so possibly not :P
666satanification666 1 year ago
@WiggaMachiavelli
Not vikingly? So a Samurai fighting with his katana in one hand and the wakisashi in the other is not very Samuraiy??? It could never happen???? Here is a tip how to not seem like a stupid person; think before you speak/write
SuperScruffster 1 year ago
@SuperScruffster
Not befitting the regular habits ascribed to the Vikings, no. Just like a busi fighting with a katana in one hand and the wakizasi in the other would not befit the regular habits ascribed to busi. That's not to say that it's totally impossible, could never happen, is wrong, etc. It would just be removed from the norm.
Here is a tip for you: Entering discourse with an aggressive attitude, especially when you've made mistaken inferences, makes you look a mouldy twat.
WiggaMachiavelli 1 year ago
@WiggaMachiavelli
"Not befitting the regular habits ascribed to the vikings"???? So if a Viking dropped his shield or had it hacked to pieces... he would never pull out a dagger or his seax to wield with the free hand???? And by the way... No one actually knows what qualifies as "the regular habits ascribed to the vikings". Sword or axe in one hand, + a dagger what ever in the other hand, is not a very far fetched idea. Its not exactly rocket science to use your free hand if you have no shield
SuperScruffster 1 year ago
@SuperScruffster
You're talking out of your arse, and you ignored (or were too thick to understand) what I said in my post.
It's overwhelmingly likely that such a situation has arisen some time in the past. Just because it's possible, or believable, doesn't mean that it's normal or common. So, while it is conceivable that, perhaps, if a Viking were to drop his shield or have it hack to pieces, he may use another weapon in the hand that had been holding the shield - but that is not all.
WiggaMachiavelli 1 year ago
@SuperScruffster
You see, we actually do, through things like primary historical sources, both literary and physical, have an idea of how the Vikings thought - to the extent that re-enactments are viable as a display of historicity. Of course, that's not to say that re-enactment-style fights must always conform to what we know of the times - but I have room enough to say that staging such a fight is not quite illustrative of conventional Viking combat, or some such thing.
WiggaMachiavelli 1 year ago
@SuperScruffster
And, just for your information, in most situations, having a weapon in your other hand is a disadvantage, since it detracts from your ability to properly utilise your main weapon.
WiggaMachiavelli 1 year ago
@WiggaMachiavelli that's not exactly accurate either. A Viking prided himself in the ability to kill with either hand, and to say they would have never used two weapons is inaccurate. There isn't providence for it, but there are mentions in the sagas of wielding two weapons at once... not to mention the well made point of losing ones shield. I speak from experience when I say pulling a backup weapon is much better than not pulling one. If you cant operate two at once,... get better
skallagrimm 11 months ago
@skallagrimm
I've already gone to great lengths to point out that I was most certainly not saying that it never happened.
You speak from experience? How old are you?
WiggaMachiavelli 11 months ago
I am 45 @WiggaMachiavelli and have been doing this for neary twenty years.
skallagrimm 11 months ago
@skallagrimm
"This" isn't valid experience as far as what works in a life-or-death battle, unfortunately. It looks like good fun, and I'm sure you have to know what you're doing to make sure that it is both convincing and safe, but all the same...
WiggaMachiavelli 11 months ago
@WiggaMachiavelli Says you, and you are? Besides being no one of consequence, you sit there and argue points that are already known and agreed upon... then attempt to put down something you could probably never do.
And my experience includes much more than what you see here... i am confident what i know would definately work in a life and death battle. So now what?
skallagrimm 11 months ago
@skallagrimm
Says I, a scholar of history, and someone who is able to observe this and arrive at the perfectly sensible conclusion that it is not the most dire of circumstances. I make a statement, and become frustrated when somebody argues with me over a misinterpretation of that statement, despite my explanations that they have misunderstood.
Pray, tell me, does your experience include actual battle in which you were in danger? Contemporary experience? No? Then your confidence is misplaced.
WiggaMachiavelli 11 months ago
Oh, @WiggaMachiavelli is a scholar... well, I give self proclaimed scholars respect due any book reader. All insight without hands on experience, which I do have as a matter of fact . I do not boast anything, simply answering the question of experience. I've defended my life and others' more than a few times. The only thing misplaced here are your comments which prove to the rest of us, that you can't get everything from a book.
skallagrimm 11 months ago
@skallagrimm
Hands on experience with playing dress-ups. And you just keep pushing it...
WiggaMachiavelli 11 months ago
I was speaking of regular life experiences WiggaMachiavelli, not of this. Though plenty of people understand that my experiemce in this does count for plenty.
And if your pussy is sore, quit playing with the big boys. What ya gonna do throw a book at me?
skallagrimm 11 months ago
@skallagrimm
Regular life experiences don't tend to have much relevance to Viking battle re-enactments, you know. I can assume that those who "understand" how useful your "experiemce" is are just as pathetic as are you.
I wonder, if I were to come back this time next month, would you be so irritable?
WiggaMachiavelli 11 months ago
Awww, did WiggaMachiavelli get his feelings hurt. Go watch your cartoons ya lil' cunt. Leave this stuff to the big boys.
skallagrimm 11 months ago
@skallagrimm
If my feelings were hurt, why is it that you have resorted to insults, I wonder? For forty-five, you certainly act a fair bit younger. I guess, what with your playing make-believe, mental and emotional immaturity was to be expected. Or maybe it's just the Asperger's Syndrome?
WiggaMachiavelli 11 months ago
Haaa, WiggaMachiavelli is soooo witty... how do ya suppose that would serve you in a fight? You need to find the NVG down your way and let them hear how you feel about what we do... i bet you don't make it home.
skallagrimm 11 months ago
@WiggaMachiavelli Project much?
Daytonaman675 11 months ago
@WiggaMachiavelli
You do realize that most things we "know" about vikings are "guestimates" based on rather biased christian point of views and records written down 200-300 years after the viking age ended. And how that explains how vikings behaved in battle, Im not quite sure. For instance, the Varangian Guard were claimed to have wide broad smiles on their faces when they went into battle with their dane-axes... now, does that mean that norse warriors "always" had a smile on them in battle?
SuperScruffster 11 months ago
@SuperScruffster
I advise you to make a point of studying history and things like primary and secondary sources, and bias, before you decide to make comments about historical evidence.
And no, that would be an illogical conclusion. What we can tell from this, assuming it comes from a reliable (secondary, I should suppose) source, would be that the Varangian Guard were observed "to have wide broad smiles on their faces when they went into battle with their dane-axes" - no more, and no less.
WiggaMachiavelli 11 months ago
@WiggaMachiavelli
Considering that Skallagrim is the guy with the sword and seas as I take it... his experience can be seen on many vids on youtube. But, still, viking history is still "guestimates". Hell, we dont even know why Heimdall is called the White God. Is it because he is white and shiny, or is it becaase he is punishing and vengeful, being the Vhite Aesir. One source that describes a norse temple even has Tor being a more prominent god than Oden.
SuperScruffster 11 months ago
@SuperScruffster
And knowing so little about the Norse way of life as we do, I just find it incredible that someone would say that a warrior fighting with sword and seax does not feel "vikingly". Especially in a video that depicts a Holmgang/Envig between two warriors, and not proper Line Battle with a shieldwall. It is positively idiotic to even make the claim! And now I have turned into a troll, but damn it, as a Swede I feel I have the right to in this case =P
SuperScruffster 11 months ago
@SuperScruffster
That doesn't really affect what I've explained above. Either way, "not strictly in line with the evidence that we have" is all that I meant. You got fired up about it, and then I got a little bit unpleasant, too, I'll admit.
And what's the relevance of Swedishness? To trolls, or to Vikings?
WiggaMachiavelli 11 months ago
@WiggaMachiavelli
Relevance? Genetic memory since Im both Swedish and Norweigan. I have an interest in my ancestors whom we are actually discussing at the moment. And my genetic memory tells me that you have no clue what you are talking about. Since I have done military service in my country, I know that practicing combat is what makes you deadly in combat. And that Skallagrimm probably knows what works in a swordfight. Experience pawns bookreading... as does my genetic memory
SuperScruffster 11 months ago
@SuperScruffster
Experience in life-or-death battle is what counts, as far as I'm concerned. Re-enactments based on a premise can not be used as evidence that the premise is historically accurate.
Technically, history is all completely unprovable. I want solid evidence, that can be shown without doubt to be falsified, that the Second World War actually occurred.
The fact that we can't totally prove something doesn't mean that we shouldn't trust the evidence that we do have. And what's more...
WiggaMachiavelli 11 months ago
@SuperScruffster
Filling the gaps is fine, as long as you recognise it as nothing more than filling the gaps with things that MIGHT be the case - but if you don't have evidence for them, and you do have evidence for other things, it is fair to pay more heed to the latter. That's all I've been trying to get at.
WiggaMachiavelli 11 months ago
@WiggaMachiavelli
Hell!!! The other guy is even wielding a sword and an axe! Why is that not a problem? Is that in tune with what a proper viking should be like?
SuperScruffster 1 year ago
@SuperScruffster
I wasn't talking about that guy, now, was I? For the record, it's no better or worse than the other, as far as I'm concerned - although, of course, going into battle with the shield and then wielding a weapon off-hand when the shield becomes unusable is a more justifiable case.
WiggaMachiavelli 1 year ago
The small asshole never demonstrated any skill....nor he would ever have been in the army, prolly cleaning horse shit after cavalry would be is perfect career, bunch of fags....disgrace to old warriors and and real en, watch Joan Of Arc......after that u will not want to hold a sword.,
MaxiBoOoY 1 year ago
@MaxiBoOoY big talk from an dumb fuck brit, I don't how many times that you fucking brit boys come over here and we clean your clock. Come on over and we will bitch slap you again back across the pond you toothless wonder.
Thunar55 1 year ago
wooow.. looks heavy
PrebenHansen1 1 year ago
The weapons are obviously bluntened and the armour is of good quality to prevent injury, however battles like these generally make people have large bruises ;)
Aserox 2 years ago
I'm gonna have to agree with Skallagrim on the argument below :D
Braveheart101TLK 2 years ago
wow nice :P
Sakanat 2 years ago
it's just coreography
LepiMario 2 years ago
No, it is NOT choreographed actually.
Try reading my channel before opening your mouth....
skallagrimm 2 years ago
ok,sorry, take my apologize :))
but how you dare to fight using steel swords without plate armour protection? is it safe??
as I see you have only chainmaille!?
LepiMario 2 years ago
Fairly safe - I fight using a similar combat system and I own no body armour. All the weapons have blunted and rounded edges and all the blows are pulled. You end up with many bruses but generally nothing worse.
Oddthetall 2 years ago
chainemaille ?
WizardShiz 2 years ago
eng. wiki say this:
Mail (also maille, often given as chain mail or chain maille or chainmaille) is a type of armour consisting of small metal rings linked together in a pattern to form a mesh.
LepiMario 2 years ago
they won't be sharp, if skallagrimm claims whey were he's either lying or breaking the law.
ihaterobbie123 2 years ago
Where did I say anything about our weapons being sharp?
.....never happened.
and do tell, what law would I be breaking if I had? I have fought with sharp weapons before, and there is no law saying you can't.... just don't hurt the other guy.
skallagrimm 2 years ago
someone said "are they sharp" or something like that.
attacking someone with a sharpened blade is assault with a deadly weapon, in the usa the charges are the same for gun assaults. in the uk the charges are more for guns (because they're illegal obviously)
also, note my use of language:
"IF skallagrimm claims" I'm asserting that you have made no such claim.
ihaterobbie123 2 years ago
Ummm, it's only "assault w/ a deadly weapon" if you are assaulting someone goofball.
If you're doing a demonstration and both people are trained to use the weapons it is certainly not assault. Just play at your own risk.
And, you asserted that I was either a liar or a criminal. I should assault you!
(shakes head... fucking Brits....)
skallagrimm 2 years ago
i have one word for you...Mc Dojo.
americans...no great history of proffesional, military or otherwise swird training and they dare lecture us europeans.
i don't know what style you're using here because it just looks like two brawlers "havin' a go a' it", so training is out of the question.
you anger too easily, winding you up is easy...
ihaterobbie123 2 years ago
Firstly, what's a swird?
The "style" is in your face Viking. We ARE two brawlers goin' at it, ya tool. It's not supposed to be I.33, as it wasn't invented yet. But yes, we do that too. And we also practice Talhoffer longsword , as well. But, that is for another time....
Oh, and I'm certainly not angry as I have been replying to you with a smile on my face each time.... besides, you couldn't handle me angry, ya pasty little bitch. GRIN
skallagrimm 2 years ago
stop being petty...recognise a typo when you see one.
your clothing style might be similar to the vikings but your fighting style isn't...did you honestly think i was talking about armour? also, if the vikings dual weilded they would use a throwing (hatchet) axe in their left hand (if right handed).
i'll check out your other videos to see if there's any evidence of training.
ihaterobbie123 2 years ago
It looked like you were dressed as Vikings however there was several problems with your sword play. Vikings weren't stupid fighters or simple brawlers, they were good patient fighters that were brilliant at countering with a shield. You got the whole circling thing going right though but Vikings would rarely dual wield and I wouldn't think it would fair well against a shield. The person with the shield should have held the shield tight and shoved his weight against you throwing you off guard.
Sovvolf 2 years ago
Yeah, the thing I love the most is when someone (especially Brits) talk a lot, but say nothing. You aren't telling us anything we don't already know.... and I'm referring to all the comments you've made on our vids.
Remember, these fights are done as entertainment for the public. Shall I critique yours with such blatant and obvious remarks? Oh wait, you don't have any.
skallagrimm 2 years ago
Wow, you don't take criticism very well now do you, I came with comments that were fair yet informative with no intention on insulting.
Entertainment or not you state in your profile that "Our group does educational speaking demos and historical lectures about the Viking Age at events." So shouldn't you also include realism and accuracy in your combat?. I've noticed your part of a Viking group of which do shows, do you want to make it up for your audience or show them how it was really done?.
Sovvolf 2 years ago
Realism and accuracy? That's an odd question coming from someone surrounded by Viking reenactors and historians in England, who do what they do. There are quite a few "corners cut" on both sides of the pond, by pretty much all groups. And usually for good reasons. But we have heard tribble and griping from overseas about many things done here, only to find Vike members there doing the same things.
By the way, we do explain the combat and how it's believed to be done. There is no known manual.
skallagrimm 2 years ago
And the British part?, are you against my opinions simply because I'm British?... seems a petty reason to be against my opinions. I have nothing against you and I enjoy and encourage what your doing, it's brilliant work however I will show criticism and praise were they are deserved.
Sovvolf 2 years ago
The Brit thing was just a poke, though we have a history with quite a few who, let's just say were more than eager to chime off about much of nothing or just be down right arrogant asses.
I may have come across a bit harsh, but understand that we have comments from well meaning folk as well as absolute morons. And sometimes a mood just strikes at the smallest of remarks... well meaning or not. My apoligies.
skallagrimm 2 years ago
The person holding the shield most not be well trained with it as it fly's about every were and often leaves him open, another mistake was blade on blade parrying... you use the side of the blade to parry with real swords... you can get away with it using blunt swords but it does look inaccurate. Besides these few hitches... good fight I understand that there was no choreography here and it was improvised so it was interesting to watch. Just work on that shield combat.
Sovvolf 2 years ago
Actually I am well trained if you look at my earlier comments from 7 months ago since it is me in this vid.
Thunar55 2 years ago
Also I forgot to add since we wanted to get the crowd going and let them know it was steel we were using and Skallagrimm and I were the first one to fight and the SCA was there we wanted to let people know that there is a difference between us and them.
Thunar55 2 years ago
Yes I realised that yesterday when I looked further down the comments, I didn't realise you were baiting, I simply mistook this for a poor defence and for that I apologise it's a mistake on my behalf. I enjoy the fact that your fights go unchoreographed however you have to expect criticism and I hand out both praise and criticism I'm not here to mock anyone here. However I don't think it's very adult to respond to criticism with "Stupid Brit" I don't hassle your because of you nationality.
Sovvolf 2 years ago
Don't worry and Skallagrimm is a great guy, he is just so passionate for Viking reenactment. On criticism well it is a vid which is only 2 dimensional but I understand. Do you do any viking reenactment? and also the "brit" thing is a long story in which this is not the time or place right now for that explanation.Late
Thunar55 2 years ago
I can understand his passion I can understand, even the name shows it, unless I'm mistaken His name is of Egal Skallagrimson (I think that's how it's spelt) The Viking that killed a lad for beating him in a competition. Sadly no I don't do any Viking re-enactments I haven't the resources nor the funding but despite this I train often with the sword mainly with Short Sword and shield although I'm getting pretty good with the longsword.
Sovvolf 2 years ago
Mainly he took the name Skallagrimm means "Bold and Ugly" I believe and also I wouldn't think Norse reenactment would that be much unless the UK groups are killer in their membership fee. I think you only need to start is, Helm, gloves and a scram and of course has experience and maybe funds you could climb the latter of the Norse reenactment world. Awesome to hear about your training. Talk to you later.
Thunar55 2 years ago
it's not the membership fee that's the killer it's finding them lol, me and my sparring partner were talking about trying to set one up some time in the near future but well as said it's funding and resources which is the problem at the moment and also training, it's trying to find people who are A) Passionate about doing such things and B) Are mature and trusted enough to be trained. The third part is probably the tricky part, getting the license to train and perform reenactments.
Sovvolf 2 years ago
License? What license? You just do it. At least that's how we got started, just jump right in. Book a couple of shows, or get your foot in the door with an event that's already established and do it.
It's not brain surgery, it's just sword fighting. The best part is you will keep on learning as you go.(because you don't die from it) After nearly twenty years and thousands of fights, I still get surprised from time to time. And there's always something new to learn.
skallagrimm 2 years ago
That may be the case over in America however I'm not 100% over the rules over here, I need to check if I need a license to be training people to use weaponry and such. I just pick up a sword and do it but it's just me and my cousin so the law don't notice such a thing, if it was a more large scaled they might notice and I may be doing some thing illegal... stupid British laws. The Brit thing... never mind, I'm over it.
Sovvolf 2 years ago
@Thunar55
Bald and Ugly ^^
Skalla-Grímr was also an enemy of Harald Hårfagre, who was forced to emigrate to Iceland.
Metalheadyup 1 year ago
As for the Brit thing, never mind, I won't hassle you or Skallagrimm for an explanation, however if one of us as wrong any of you in the past please note were not all the person. Certainly not me.
Sovvolf 2 years ago
Agreed.
Thunar55 2 years ago
And get over the Brit thing.... no it wasn't you I meant it towards, but some of your comments were very "British" like. It's called a generalization.
It's like saying NY city cabbies are all towelheads. Certainly they are not, but enough are that one might have to ride in a lot of cabs to disprove it.
skallagrimm 2 years ago
I don't see how the origin of their country dictates their skill. Of course there's no great history of Sword training in America as by the time America was starting up as a full country Guns were becoming the main form of combat and swords were used as a secondary weapon. However this doesn't mean they can't train to be proficient or even a master with the sword.
Sovvolf 2 years ago
Comment removed
LepiMario 2 years ago
hmmm, odd
I cant see you hooking with the axe?
Hyugakarasu 2 years ago
Do you mean in general, or in this particular vid?
Generally speaking, besides bashing and cleaving with an axe, hooking is the next best thing you can do with it. Hook the opponents arm or leg, his weapon or shield,....etc.
Regarding this vid though, I never gave him the chance after he dropped his shield to do much at all with his axe.
skallagrimm 2 years ago
personally, if i'm fighting with axe and sword, i'd always hook with the axe, it throws your opponent for a loop
Hyugakarasu 2 years ago
lol so your the other guy huh? I'm pretty good but i think you would destroy me :S
vermanshane 2 years ago
Sword and axe combo.... Awesome.
Wallace01 2 years ago
I don't get why people go to all this effort to dress up and acquire the gear and then not bother to look into how to fight with the gear :-/
Shuffledodo 2 years ago
Share your expertise then.
Thunar55 2 years ago
Share your expertise then if you have any.
Thunar55 2 years ago
I don't get why so many dumbasses want to make comments aobut things that they have no clue about. What would you suggest a person "look into" with regards on fighting? There are no Viking combat manuals.... anywhere! Never have been, so we make it as realistic as possible. Show me a group doing it better!
skallagrimm 2 years ago
These aren't expert things, it's just very obvious. Armed with a shield and sword, the loser of this fight repeatedly parries with the edge of his sword. For one this runs a high risk of breaking an iron age sword. Second he simply chooses not to use his shield for its main purpose. A shield is there as a weapon as well as defence, don't see any of that. You'll see at 0:06 that he uses the blade to parry a swipe that goes nowhere near his body, again at 0:17. I could go on.
Shuffledodo 2 years ago
Blah, blah, blah. It's a show you dumbass, and just because you have a need to hear yourself go on and on doesn't mean the rest of us need to indulge you. Of course you could go on, because that's all your good for is a lot of talk.... what do you do?
skallagrimm 2 years ago
True about parrying with the sword in which it would ruin all swords not just iron age but and yes you are taught to use the flat of the blade but really in reality its not going to happen that often. I also know the shield is use on both def. and off. as I am the loser of this fight but one of my tactics that work SOMETIMES is to bait them closer inside for I am a short person and my reach is not that far but sir I assure you I know how to fight in the gear as much as you think we don't.
Thunar55 2 years ago
arnt those sharp?
jessse288 3 years ago
No, blunted edges and rounded points... but still capable of being a dangerous weapon, nonetheless.
skallagrimm 3 years ago
Nice combat Skallagrim. As I can see my friend Knort think the same, curious. Feel well.
KjelStormcaller 4 years ago
Vikings are always cool
Rimpala 5 years ago
Live Steel fighters that became LARP'ers. NEVER!! Which goes back to the fact that they weren't live steel fighters to begin with, but posers.
coznefect 5 years ago
I've seen vids of my bf and his friends fighting live steel sans armor and it chills my blood! And I've heard the stories and seen the scars. No thanks! I'll stick to my boffing weapons and big-ass shield! =0)
redwalnut 5 years ago
Yes, that's probably a good idea. And nobody at KC does Live Steel Combat, by the way.
skallagrimm 5 years ago
Not any more, they don't. There are guys with swords, but they suck. All the live steel guys in KC have either moved away or LARP with us.
redwalnut 5 years ago
Sure it's easy to be great when you hide behind large shields and wear that much shit. My group fought live steal, full force, un Choreographed, no armor! BTW my group dealt 3 draws of blood for victor. Then again we really were fighting.
StoneHand06 5 years ago
(clears throat) BULLSHIT!!
skallagrimm 5 years ago
Sure it's easy to be great when you can hide behind your clothing and talk that much shit. My group fought with real steel, full force, without improvising and NAKED! BTW my group dealt.. oh sorry, I have to go back to the asylum, i'll catch up with you next month when i'm having again access to the internets.
snaip 5 years ago
Hey Skallagrimm your videos are the best, are you one of the fighters???, sure you have been in wolin festival. See you on the battlefield, don´t stop fighting
Knort 5 years ago
gosh you guys have awesome steel combat. where you located?
Thunar55 5 years ago