Finkelstein VS Dershowitz=Palestine VS israel(Part5)

[bammbamm12]

Finkelstein had Dershowitz running around like a hamster on a treadmill. Dershowitz used every sleezy sneaky trick to kill time and shift the focus. It was a glorious victory for Finkelstein, and Dershowitz' nemesis.

[bigsoundz]

Dershowitz got his ass handed to him in this debate.

[schwrz78]

That's very believable coming from someone who has a video entitled "Zionists invented Modern Terrorism" listed in their favorites section. In fact, I doubt that you even bothered to watched the entire debate. Had you done so, you would have seen that Finkelstein's "arguments" basically amount to nitpicking and quote mining.

[bigsoundz]

FACTS:

1. Jews bombed the King David Hotel dressed as Arabs to kill British.

2. Jews bombed the USS Liberty, and covered it up for decades. They tried to kill every sailor.

3. Most of Israel's Prime Ministers have gone on record to admitting to comitting acts of "terror" until in became a bad label.

What are you bitching about? These are facts.

Finkelstein is honest, honorable guy. Dershowitz was investigated for possibly killing his wife -- where have you been?

[schwrz78]

But since you brought it up let's look at some of your "facts":

1. You conveniently fail to mention that the King David Hotel was in fact the headquarters of British forces in Palestine and therefore a legitimate military target (terrorism is, by definition, directed at civilians) and also that in the interest of saving human lives, the British authorities were warned to leave the building several times (no such warnings were ever given in advance of Palestinian terror attacks).

[schwrz78]

2. Regarding the USS Liberty: Both the Israeli and American governments conducted inquiries into the incident, and issued reports concluding that the attack was a tragic mistake, caused by confusion about the identity of the USS Liberty but if you wish to advocate some conspiracy theory have at it.

3. This doesn't even deserve a response. Cite your sources.

[schwrz78]

Finally, regarding Finkelstein, it may be of interest to you that he is known (this fact was published by major newspapers, look it up)for having ties with Hezbollah which is, mind you, an ACTUAL terrorist organization. Honest, honorable guy? I have my doubts.

[U3nuku]

Actually I listened to the entire debate and anybody can watch it by downloading it from democracynow. In no uncertain terms - Dershowitz was shown to be the lying bastard zionist racist that he is. There is no nitpicking - Dershowitz is what he is - a lying zionist pro-Israeli bastard!

[schwrz78]

Thanks for staying on topic, explaining your reasoning and most importantly, for not sinking to name-calling level. Really.

[U3nuku]

Thanks, just saying what I feel about people who support the murder of thousands of Palestinians.

You're right I shouldn't have called him a bastard I should have called him a Nazi - afterall if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck then it is a duck.

[schwrz78]

This is truly appalling. How you can compare systematic murder with regrettable casualties of war is truly beyond comprehension, all the more since Palestinians are deliberately targeting civilians and so fit your description much better. A double standard wouldn't you say?

[U3nuku]

Not really, considering that the Israelis are deliberately targeting civilians right now - with the seige of Gaza, the bombing of Gaza the illegal colonies on private palestinian land -the murders of palestinian farmers by european immigrants illegally occupying palestinian land in the west bank etc... etc...

The behaviour of Israel is exactly the behaviour of racist nazi germany - this is exactly why it must be compared. If Israel does not want the comparison then stop acting like nazis.

[schwrz78]

Deliberately targeting civilians? Let's look at some of your "facts":

1. A siege constitutes of not allowing food or supplies to go in. What actually happens is that there's plenty of food going in (as well as water and electricity supplied by Israel).

2. The bombing of Gaza was in response to rocket attacks. And while we're on the topic, please explain how you can support firing rockets at civilians.

[schwrz78]

3. Not that I support that (for pragmatical reasons) but technically settlements are legal since the land was acquired during a defensive war. Look it up.

4. Murders of Palestinian farmers? Do you live in an alternate universe or something? And even if there might have been a small number of such cases, the killers now sit in jail which is more than I can say about the Hamas killers.

[schwrz78]

But, don't let actual facts stand in your way or something. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid that those "human rights" activists provide you with. Where are you when China murders Tibetans? For that matter where are you when Palestinians murder Palestinians?

Seriously, read some history before comparing ANYONE with Nazis. Shame on you.

[U3nuku]

Keep drinking the kool aid huh - sure what ever. Reverend Jim Jones forced many people to drink the cool aid by the barrel of a gun.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck then it is a duck the israeli regime are behaving like nazis - that makes them nazis.

[U3nuku]

3. The illegal colonies (lets not get words mixed up - they are not settlements because the private palestinian land is palestinian and not israeli) are illegal. They have always been illegal and are defined by UN and international law as illegal.

4. Murder of Palestinian farmers - what planet do you live on, search youtube and you can find plenty of videos documenting them. If not go to ifamericansknew or palsolidarity or btselem and find them yourself

[U3nuku]

Seriously schwr78 with all due respect, everything you've said is wrong. In fact it's absolutely the opposite of what you said. you really need to read some history books to understand exactly what happened in 1948, 1967 as well as the USS Liberty.

1. Gaza is a seige - try sending some baby clothes to gaza and see what happens:

2. Gaza rockets is a joke, in nine years 28 people were killed because of the rockets. Israel killed 1400+ people in 22 days.

[schwrz78]

You are a victim of Pali propaganda. I've got to hand it to them, the mere fact that they made you think and a friendly fire incident that happened 30 years ago has anything to do with the Palestinian cause is quite an acomplishment. Gaza is not under siege but rather under very legitimate economic embargo, food as well as fuel and water is allowed in which is more than any reasonable nation would do to help an entity that has elected a terrorist organization sworn to destroy it.

[schwrz78]

It's very easy for you to say that Gaza rockets are a joke... from New Zealand. Tell that to more than a million citizens who had to get into shelters three times a day on a fifteen second notice. Your quoting of numbers shows a total lack of understanding of the situation. 100% of those 28 were civilians while between 75% and 45% (depending on your sources) of the 1300 were armed combatants.

[schwrz78]

Israel would have responded more moderately but the sad truth (that you deliberately fail to grasp) is that those people don't hold the same value for human life that you and I do and that's why moderate responses just don't work. It's been tried. If you don't believe me I'd be more than happy to point you to videos of mothers happily glorifying their sons who died while blowing up themselves as well as children who happened to be around.

[U3nuku]

"those people don't hold the same value for human life that you and I do "

Oh now I am going to have to see some evidence of this statement - unless you mean the Israelis.

The Israelis certainly do not hold the same value of human life as evidenced by the pre-emptive war waged on the helpless starving and comparatively unarmed and unfunded population of Gaza.

Pre-emptive war is defined as acts of terrorism, the Israelis commited hundreds of thousands of terrorist acts in 22 days.

[U3nuku]

"very legitimate economic embargo"

Ahhh no sorry - the UN defines it as a seige - and an illegal seige.

"food as well as fuel and water"

Ahhh again according to every human rights organisation trying to break the "seige" you're wrong again.

You are NOT a victim of hollywood and Israeli propaganda - you are Israeli hasbara - you are purposefully perpetrating the lie of the legitimacy of teh Israeli state.

[schwrz78]

"Oh now I am going to have to see some evidence of this statement"

Evidence:

/watch?v=CWIDZ7Jpdqg&feature=r­elated

Evidence:

/watch?v=KrM0dAFsZ8k&feature=r­elated

Evidence:

/watch?v=S2G1TZKerTo&feature=r­elated

(combined, all these are under three minutes, hope it's not beyond your attention span)

I'm really curious as to how you're gonna attempt to weasel yourself out of this one.