ive owned both 2 and 4 stroke, and ive got 2 go with 4 they came long ways improving the power and 4 to me less hassle with not having to premix and having to carry extra plugs while riding just gas up and go
@Negrito20 Hmmm... Mixing oil in gas is not hard or time consuming. If you are too lazy for that you are probably going to have a catastrophic engine failure in your 4-stroke soon. If you don't check/adjust your valves you are going to blow an engine and be $2k in the hole.
I carry an extra plug when i ride my 2-stroke, but i have NEVER needed to use it. If your bike is jetted right it doesn't foul plugs.
There making them like cars now. so the average guy cant work on them anymore. Im own CRFs and YZFs and they have no were near the relability as my 01 XR650r
All 2 stroke and 4 stroke bikes in Canada are efi except the yamaha's and the 250 kawi can be tamed with different motor mapping but the new front suspension fuckin sucks yamaha still has the best combination of power and handling
really man when i use to ride with my dad, had hada 02 cr250 with a flywheel weight n' he got to ride a 05 crf450 n said it dint have any more power, was so close...put a flywheel weihgt on to make it smooth..and it was smooth! then u get to have smooth power but the easy work on of 2 smoker
@yzkx711 Why not? 250 = 250 = fair. If the 250f can't compete with a 250 2t that is just proof that it is worse technology. Isn't that the purpose of racing?
@TheOfficialKC yea. i belive in what your saying and i have taken advantage of these rules but the proof that that the 250f is worse technology and racing them together is all part of racing.............to a point. as you can see and as you said the 250 2t rapes the 250f. so i think its a little unfair but i can deal with it.
@beluga420 A crf250 makes about 33hp. A CR250 only made about 42hp because Honda stopped developing it. A new KTM 250sx makes 49hp. And as you can see from this video, the kx250 makes more low end than the crf250.
@TheOfficialKC yeah of course a stock 2 stroke is better than a stock 4 stroke over all the line if you compare cc to cc, but a midly tuned 4 stroke can easily get better power than a 2 stroke.
@beluga420 A heavily tuned 250F will make less power than a stock 250 2-stroke. A heavily modded 250 2-stroke will make the same power as a heavily modded 450F, just the powerband of the 450F would be wider. But fuel injection can fix that.
@TheOfficialKC humm.. I kicked 2 cr250 and one kx250 ass in a drag race... and they weren't noobies. the only one that passed ahead me( no even one bike lenght ) was a ktm250sx... I'd like to see how much my crf250r would get out on the dyno you could be surprised as much as the cr250 guys they were like : 'what the fuck we got raped by a crf250?' ahah that was really fun
I did ride a ktm 250 sx 08 and it totaly passes ahead the cr250 dude.. I know what they are like and yeah my 250f is like one bike behind the ktm250 on a drag race. IT IS NOT STOCK I told you man I know stock its nothing beside a 250 2 st but now I can handle them no problem . I really love the 2 st 250s too they are completely different but really fun also.
A 106Kg 35hp 250F can NOT catch a lighter (92Kg) with 50Hp that has the same spec as a 115kg 450?
The 250F is a bit like a 125 2 stroke - A 250 2 stroke is a bit like a 450.
A 125 will NOT catch a 450 - In the same way a 250F will not catch a 450F either.
There is no way in the world a 250F can ever compare to a 250 2 stroke. (Same as a 125 will NOT compare to a 450 in power) Dont get the numbers confused there is a huge difference between a 250F and any 250 2 stroke + a huge diff in weight
@DynoChart mister I-know-it-all I have fully ported and polished pr2 racing head and I pass ahead over some cr250s and kx250s... just the head gets around 10-12 hp more than stock and add to this the high comp piston with the pipe... you makin me laught ahah you 2 stroke guys don't seem to realize it untill you get behind the 250r I need to buy a cam and I'll get a video. I am not saying that its as strong as a 450 but that bike has some balls.
@DynoChart No its possible.... Basically the CR250 rider would have to be complete shit at riding to get passed by a CRF250R. lol People are going to say all kinds of retarded shit like that. I wouldn't be surprised if you get someone claiming they raped a KX500 on a TTR125. hahahahaha That'll be the next thing you hear.
@InfamousStax basically the cr250 rider even if hes god agaisnt a good modded crf250r I mean far from stock will have lots of difficulty to beat it... if the cr250 is stock of course.
@xKILLZONAx whahaha if you say so fucker i don't give a shit 'bout what you thinkin I'm not foolish I know my bike can handle a STOCK 250 2 smoke any day and don't talk about the 125 It's not even in the game anymore
@xKILLZONAx yeah pr2 full racing head ported with oversized valves with cam and high comp piston it gives it around 8-12 hp I think I never dynoed it tought . lots of people that see it think its a 450 its sounds almost like it too. I agree the rider has a lot to do.. but of course a modded 250 2st will rape me lol but stock almost the same as my modded 4t. I'd really like to dyno it see what it pulls but I can't find any :(
@beluga420 a kx 250 vill 2 stroke vill smoke any 4 stroke bikes any time .the power on this bikes are sick. 2 strokes all the way.yamaha and ktm still makes 2 strokes,so as kawasaki,but not for us market.
@TheKyokuman dud stfu i owned those kx 250 and cr 250 with my NOT STOCK 250f... heavily ported head with oversized valves high comp all the fuckin stuff but anyways the bike died again I'm switching to a ktm 250 sx probably next year.
@beluga420 so what your saying is that a 250 2 stroke has the the same amount of power of a 450 if not a little more well if thats the case then how come they stop make the 250 2 strokes i mean i have a 2001 kx 250 and i love it but idk lol
@kawibbyrule nah personaly I think the 450 have more power than a 250 2 stroke but they stopped makin 2 stroke because of evironmental shit and everything I think. but there will always be a huge rivality around 2 stroke guys and 4 strokes. personaly I'm not bullshiting on any of the 2 , 2 are really fun but really different to handle
@beluga420 no shit its hard to handle a 250 2 stroke i mean out of nowhere BAMM FUCKING power band lol its funny as hell but sometime sucks lol but that all about owening a 250 2 stroke
I thought the side bar was funny. Its more like 4 or 5 HP compared to the others LOL
The CRF450 looks a bit high (2 or 3 hp) and @ 6000rpm should be +/- 32hp compared to other CRF450 Dyno charts. (Check others here) I have left this here as it has a direct comparison to other models.
I am fairly sure this a Honda sales pitch dyno. Doctored just a bit.
Oh yeah. With DFi a 250 2T will have the same hp and torque curve as a 450 4T. Just as much low end torque and hp. And it will have cleaner emissions than a 4T. And it will still weigh 30lbs less. I want a 380 (like my KTM 380SX) with DI. It will weigh 20lbs less than a 450, make 15hp more, get better emissions and mpg. That's my dream bike.
@999HitMan666 have you forgotten that 450's are also detuned? why its amazing how you four stroke haters are quick to say two strokes are detuned yet 450's have been detuned since 08!! I have a 450 and no 2 stroke really comes close but a cr500...but none the less 2 strokes are fast..but when compared to a 450 ..they are kinda weak...450 has power as soon as i hit the throttle..you will ring out a 2 stroke trying to keep up
@tappmoney18 There are SO many variables, they are almost impossible to even compare. But I agree with you somewhat. I am one of those die hard 2 stroke lovers who will forever run premix, but I had a CRF450, and I'll tell you what that bike is 2nd to only the 92 KX500 I had... Power, power, power. I admit the new 4's are crazy fast and turn RPM and HP = to any 2 stroke, I was just born and raised on KX's and I'll never quit em. I don't get why people won't admit new 4's are nice LOL
@swill5191 2 strokes are great machines...lol im the only 1 in my family who has 1...but when my cousin rode he says its far superior than his cr250...when I rode his 250 I instantly noticed that the power is in higher rpm...i like 2 strokes they are fast bikes but I will keep my crf450...they wont admit four strokes are nice because they live in the past
@tappmoney18 Or YOU won't admit 2-strokes are better because you can't ride. It takes more skill to ride a 2-stroke. But the reward is far more fun than a 4-stroke will ever provide. A 450 is slightly faster in the straights but it turns like a tractor.
Also compare properly. Sure, ridden by a good rider a 250 will keep up with a 450, but compare a CR500AF to a CRF450. That bike has more top end, low end, and torque than a 450. And still lighter.
@TheOfficialKC Na I can ride..We drag race...maybe you cant ride..its not that difficult to ride a two stroke...you will ring a 2 stroke trying to keep up with me on my 450 lol..cr500af...already beat 1...by more than 2 bikes...But they are great bikes..I have been neaten by them on occasions but I will always stay with my 450!! 500 days are over!! get with the times kid
@tappmoney18 Okay, drag racing. So yeah, not using a dirt bike for its purpose. Like using a F1 car for drag racing.
A 250 will get beat(but they also haven't been developed since 2002). A KTM 300 will actually beat a 450 in a drag race. Bet you never ridden one.
And you probably raced old CR500s. Get with the times, a Service Honda 500AF makes 65hp. That is15hp more than a new 450. And it weighs 20lbs less. It WILL win in a drag and around a track. And that is a 1980s engine design.
@TheOfficialKC Wrong again..KTM300 got beat by my team mates yahama yz450f on 1 wheel..we have plenty of vids destroying cr500af's, ktm250/300's, cr250's,and any other 450's...The plus they already did track test on the cr500af vs crf450r and the 450 had faster lap times with the amateur, intermediate, and pro riders all had better times on the 450... We like to have fun..plus a purpose for a dirt bike is for whatever we want to use it for..who are you to judge??
@tappmoney18 I've seen plenty of videos of stock 300s pulling away(slowly) from stock 450s. I have also seen a test of a service honda 500af vs a 450 and the 500 was faster, by several seconds, by several riders.
@TheOfficialKC ..Ive seen many Cr500 riders switching from those dinosaurs to 450's...its all about the rider....Test I seen the cr500afaf didn't have a good a powerband as the crf450r does..plus it got smoked on a tight track and on the open track...450 was just better...now I read where the kx500af was faster than the kx450f in those same test
@tappmoney18 I'm not talking about a stock 1985 cr500. Or even a stock 2002 CR500. I am talking Service Honda 500AFs.
A 450f makes ~48hp. A Service Honda 500AF makes 65hp. A 450f weighs 240lbs and the 500AF weighs 225lbs.
If the 500 gets beat in a drag, the rider must be retarded. On a track they will be similar, but a good rider can get several seconds a lap faster on a 500.
@TheOfficialKC my 450 came with 55 stock..I have an 02 runs great..and I beat a 500 in a drag ..the rider is good he beat me twice, and I beat him twice..very close runs....but low end power...I say 450
@tappmoney18 Every major magazine tests every 450 and they are all about 48hp stock. Okay you may have beat a old 500. Whatever. And again, compare low end to a "new" 500.
@TheOfficialKC false again..Have you not heard about the new ktm's,yzf''s,kxf's crf's..all over 50. ktm has 53 hp stock.... Your not going four strokes their due... And when i race a "so called" "new" 500. You will be the first to know. they new 450's are detuned especially Honda and they still have 50 or more horses..now dnt get me wrong I have nothing against 500's or 2 strokes in general... a 500 is a powerhouse but so are 450's
@tappmoney18 A 450 is detuned? What the hell does that mean? Anything can make more power, that doesn't mean it is detuned. By that I can say a 500 is detuned. Even at 65hp. And those are 20 year old engines.
If you think a bike with 15hp less and 20lbs more is going to be faster in a drag, then you are high.
@TheOfficialKC means that they sacrificed hp so they could be ridden easier which means you will go faster....more power doesn't mean anything if you can't hold on or hook up!! 500 have more hp but 450's get more power to the ground and in doing so they go faster.
@tappmoney18 they get more power to the ground because they're more forgiving to people who don't have the coordination to control a 500 2t. a good experienced rider wouldn't have a problem with this
@puuuutube lol who are you?? you don't even have any videos? do you even own a bike? I ride all types of bikes but from experience the 450 is hands down the best! when yo get a bike and learn how to ride then talk
@tappmoney18 no point in trying to argue with a kiddiot who just acquired his first bike which is a 450 and will violently defend his [mom's] purchase. no videos, sorry, but after watching your shitty videos I can't find it within me to give you the benefit of the doubt. you are an idiot. leave this thread immediately and take your fucking 4joke with you.
@puuuutube lol kiddiot? I bought my bike over 3 years ago... Unlike you I have a job and dpnt need mommy to hold mey hand. You havent even bought a bike let alone a camera. Get a job and work hardand maybe just maybe you will have the funds to purchase many bikes just like me.. until then put up or shutup!!
@TheOfficialKC don't believe me? Check out the videos of House of pain vol 1,2,3,4,5 im on most of them...look at the 1st video so you can see my little interview...im on the black crf450r# 68 named Iron Mike Tyson...its pretty cool videos check us out.. I mean no disrespect to anyone. I love racing dirt bikes and riding street bikes.. I love the sport!!!
@WetDirtProductions Not the same racing class but in reality cc = cc. Displacement = displacement. And in that comparison 4-strokes suck.
And if you knew your history you would know that until the last 10 years it was always equal displacement rules. Compare the bikes without giving the 4t a handicap and they are crap in racing.
@WetDirtProductions you mean 4t suck for racing? If you mean current MX racing rules, yes 2t is not as competitive, but they don't suck. If by real world standards 4t sucks at racing. That is why in the big bore classes in Enduro it is ruled by 2t.
@travisneil And my point is people always say 4-strokes superior. Not if you actually compare them correctly. cc for cc, a 2-stroke produces far more power AND torque than a 4-stroke. And still weighs less. And is more reliable.
@TheOfficialKC definitely not more reliable, cheaper to fix yes. And why would you compare them cc to cc when the 2 stroke is using twice the fuel? Don't get me wrong I love 2 strokes but there is a reason why four strokes are taking over.
@travisneil First, 2-strokes ARE more reliable. They go more hours than a 4-stroke and when a 4-stroke has a problem it is major.
Second, I compare them cc to cc because 250 = 250. I hope you understand math, or can at least count. You compare equal size. And for the same size engine the 2-stroke is more powerful and lighter. As far as fuel economy goes, research Direct Injection on 2-strokes.
@TheOfficialKC holy shit, 250 = 250 thanks for the clarification. I don't think CMRC understands this concept and have decided to race 250 2 strokes with 450 4 strokes. If you are going to talk about economy you might want to research emissions.
@travisneil It is simple why 4-strokes are "taking over". Marketing. The big manufacturers can sell them for more $. Sell them for more profit then change the race rules so 2-strokes are obsolete so everyone has to buy a new 4-stroke. Make them less reliable so you sell more parts. They don't care about selling good bikes, just making more money. And by the way, 2-strokes are growing faster than 4-strokes again. Go to a local track and see, there are more than in the past 5 years.
@travisneil You are a confused person. Now that you understand that 250 = 250, you can start to see how the two engines compare. Ever heard of engine tuning? Porting? Go ride a low end ported 250 2-stroke back to back with a 250 4t. Guess what, the 2-stroke will have MORE top end AND more low end. Yep, if you want low end torque and smooth power, 2-strokes are STILL BETTER. Wonder why they dominate hard enduro?
@TheOfficialKC I can tell you get off to 2 strokes! i LIKE 2 STROKES TOO! (not as much as you though) Ive owned more 2 stroke bikes then 4 strokes, and I can definitely say i like 4 strokes better. In my experience they are more reliable, and funner to ride. That's not saying that 4 stroke is better for every application (how u feel about 2 strokes) and as for 250=250, does 1 then equal 2 for for firing frequency?? That's like saying a Wankel engine should equal to a normal 4t
@travisneil Just to let you know, I grew up on 4-strokes. The reason I love 2-strokes is because of the design. Get an engineering degree and you will see, 2-strokes are superior. EQUAL size 2-strokes are more powerful AND lighter. You don't think that is fair? Compare the outside dimensions. The same outer size 2-stroke will be much bigger displacement and WAY more powerful. Got it yet? No? Compare equal weight, a 2-stroke will be far more powerful and more compact.
@travisneil Whichever dimension you choose to compare them fairly, the 2-stroke is superior. More power, less weight, less complex, more compact, less rotating inertia, cheaper, less maintenance and with modern DI less emissions and better fuel economy.
I don't understand your Wankel comment. They are on par with 2-strokes for power/weight. So with equal displacement to a 4-stroke they will rape a 4-stroke.
@travisneil Apparently you can't read. I never said this KX250 had a smooth power curve. Look at ENDURO bikes. Bikes built to have smooth power curves. Or get a ported bike. If you port, head mod and get the right pipe for a 2-stroke not only will the 250 2T make 10hp more peak than a 250F, it will make more power EVERYWHERE.
4-strokes can be very reliable (my XR250 for example) but when tuned like modern MX bikes they are ticking time bombs. Money holes.
@TheKillgore521 Exactly, 4-strokes are inferior. Thanks for proving it. 4-strokes need double the displacement to be competitive power wise. But that still doesn't do the trick. They also give the 2-strokes weight penalties. They also modified the tracks to favor 4-strokes.
An unskilled rider would be faster on a 250 4t than a 250 2t. But a skilled rider would be faster on a 250 2t than a 250 4t.
my 06 cr250 (stock) spanks (stock) 450's.. just saying..
cr250lover1 3 weeks ago
Which year are those bikes from?
klstrucker930419 3 weeks ago
Next time do a yz250 dumbass don't just throw ima yz125 pointless!!
Kawasakimoon88 4 months ago 2
and the yz125 torque should start before the fourstrokes
codydeanbailey 4 months ago
i know for a fact a yz125 of the same year as a crf250 will make more peak horsepower
codydeanbailey 4 months ago
ive owned both 2 and 4 stroke, and ive got 2 go with 4 they came long ways improving the power and 4 to me less hassle with not having to premix and having to carry extra plugs while riding just gas up and go
Negrito20 9 months ago
@Negrito20 Hmmm... Mixing oil in gas is not hard or time consuming. If you are too lazy for that you are probably going to have a catastrophic engine failure in your 4-stroke soon. If you don't check/adjust your valves you are going to blow an engine and be $2k in the hole.
I carry an extra plug when i ride my 2-stroke, but i have NEVER needed to use it. If your bike is jetted right it doesn't foul plugs.
TheOfficialKC 9 months ago
dude 2 strokes are by far superior. there is not a single thing that 4 stroke does or can do better than a 2 stroke.
redneck9507 1 year ago
There making them like cars now. so the average guy cant work on them anymore. Im own CRFs and YZFs and they have no were near the relability as my 01 XR650r
phxxr650r 1 year ago
All 2 stroke and 4 stroke bikes in Canada are efi except the yamaha's and the 250 kawi can be tamed with different motor mapping but the new front suspension fuckin sucks yamaha still has the best combination of power and handling
MrEvetsization 1 year ago
the kx 250 makes more hp and torque than the crf fuck fourstokes
rednecksparadise 1 year ago
You can still get kx 250 strokes here in Canada...2011 fuel injected even
MrEvetsization 1 year ago
@MrEvetsization no way? not EFI?
fox13z400 1 year ago
that is not good useable power from the kx something needs to be sorted. it has nasty sharp and abrupt power
gilessmokey 1 year ago
@gilessmokey thats called 'personality'
turbolq4 9 months ago
really man when i use to ride with my dad, had hada 02 cr250 with a flywheel weight n' he got to ride a 05 crf450 n said it dint have any more power, was so close...put a flywheel weihgt on to make it smooth..and it was smooth! then u get to have smooth power but the easy work on of 2 smoker
FingerLickinGravy67 1 year ago
after looking at thiswhy do they race 250fs with 250 2ts?????????????dumb AMA
yzkx711 2 years ago
@yzkx711 Why not? 250 = 250 = fair. If the 250f can't compete with a 250 2t that is just proof that it is worse technology. Isn't that the purpose of racing?
TheOfficialKC 1 year ago
@TheOfficialKC yea. i belive in what your saying and i have taken advantage of these rules but the proof that that the 250f is worse technology and racing them together is all part of racing.............to a point. as you can see and as you said the 250 2t rapes the 250f. so i think its a little unfair but i can deal with it.
yzkx711 1 year ago
@TheOfficialKC with my crf250r I rape cr 250's the only one I hardly get are ktm 250 sx... but of course mine isnt stock at all lol
beluga420 1 year ago
@beluga420 A crf250 makes about 33hp. A CR250 only made about 42hp because Honda stopped developing it. A new KTM 250sx makes 49hp. And as you can see from this video, the kx250 makes more low end than the crf250.
TheOfficialKC 1 year ago
@TheOfficialKC yeah of course a stock 2 stroke is better than a stock 4 stroke over all the line if you compare cc to cc, but a midly tuned 4 stroke can easily get better power than a 2 stroke.
beluga420 1 year ago
@beluga420 A heavily tuned 250F will make less power than a stock 250 2-stroke. A heavily modded 250 2-stroke will make the same power as a heavily modded 450F, just the powerband of the 450F would be wider. But fuel injection can fix that.
TheOfficialKC 1 year ago 3
@TheOfficialKC humm.. I kicked 2 cr250 and one kx250 ass in a drag race... and they weren't noobies. the only one that passed ahead me( no even one bike lenght ) was a ktm250sx... I'd like to see how much my crf250r would get out on the dyno you could be surprised as much as the cr250 guys they were like : 'what the fuck we got raped by a crf250?' ahah that was really fun
beluga420 1 year ago
@beluga420 Clearly you have never riden a CR or KX 250
They are chalk and cheese compared to a 250F!
A 250F is more like a 125 than a 250 2 stroke. A 125 is nothing like a CR or KX 250
I would suggest you try to get a ride on a 250 to find out how quick they are.
RC won 12 out of 12 outdoor events in the pro class against 450's on a RM250
DynoChart 1 year ago
I did ride a ktm 250 sx 08 and it totaly passes ahead the cr250 dude.. I know what they are like and yeah my 250f is like one bike behind the ktm250 on a drag race. IT IS NOT STOCK I told you man I know stock its nothing beside a 250 2 st but now I can handle them no problem . I really love the 2 st 250s too they are completely different but really fun also.
beluga420 1 year ago
A 106Kg 35hp 250F can NOT catch a lighter (92Kg) with 50Hp that has the same spec as a 115kg 450?
The 250F is a bit like a 125 2 stroke - A 250 2 stroke is a bit like a 450.
A 125 will NOT catch a 450 - In the same way a 250F will not catch a 450F either.
There is no way in the world a 250F can ever compare to a 250 2 stroke. (Same as a 125 will NOT compare to a 450 in power) Dont get the numbers confused there is a huge difference between a 250F and any 250 2 stroke + a huge diff in weight
DynoChart 1 year ago
@DynoChart mister I-know-it-all I have fully ported and polished pr2 racing head and I pass ahead over some cr250s and kx250s... just the head gets around 10-12 hp more than stock and add to this the high comp piston with the pipe... you makin me laught ahah you 2 stroke guys don't seem to realize it untill you get behind the 250r I need to buy a cam and I'll get a video. I am not saying that its as strong as a 450 but that bike has some balls.
beluga420 1 year ago
@DynoChart No its possible.... Basically the CR250 rider would have to be complete shit at riding to get passed by a CRF250R. lol People are going to say all kinds of retarded shit like that. I wouldn't be surprised if you get someone claiming they raped a KX500 on a TTR125. hahahahaha That'll be the next thing you hear.
InfamousStax 1 year ago
@InfamousStax basically the cr250 rider even if hes god agaisnt a good modded crf250r I mean far from stock will have lots of difficulty to beat it... if the cr250 is stock of course.
beluga420 1 year ago
@DynoChart my completely stock other than exhaust 06 crf250 rapes a completly stock 05 yz125. both af
kowclubproductions 1 year ago
@beluga420 lol i bed i could out ride you ona 125 bwahaha foolish boy thinks a 250 4 stroke can hang with a 250 2 smoker
xKILLZONAx 1 year ago
@xKILLZONAx whahaha if you say so fucker i don't give a shit 'bout what you thinkin I'm not foolish I know my bike can handle a STOCK 250 2 smoke any day and don't talk about the 125 It's not even in the game anymore
beluga420 1 year ago
@beluga420 wait, ur 250R modded? and yeah its 90% rider 10% bike bro...
xKILLZONAx 1 year ago
@xKILLZONAx yeah pr2 full racing head ported with oversized valves with cam and high comp piston it gives it around 8-12 hp I think I never dynoed it tought . lots of people that see it think its a 450 its sounds almost like it too. I agree the rider has a lot to do.. but of course a modded 250 2st will rape me lol but stock almost the same as my modded 4t. I'd really like to dyno it see what it pulls but I can't find any :(
beluga420 1 year ago
@beluga420 a kx 250 vill 2 stroke vill smoke any 4 stroke bikes any time .the power on this bikes are sick. 2 strokes all the way.yamaha and ktm still makes 2 strokes,so as kawasaki,but not for us market.
TheKyokuman 1 year ago
@TheKyokuman dud stfu i owned those kx 250 and cr 250 with my NOT STOCK 250f... heavily ported head with oversized valves high comp all the fuckin stuff but anyways the bike died again I'm switching to a ktm 250 sx probably next year.
beluga420 1 year ago
@beluga420 so what your saying is that a 250 2 stroke has the the same amount of power of a 450 if not a little more well if thats the case then how come they stop make the 250 2 strokes i mean i have a 2001 kx 250 and i love it but idk lol
kawibbyrule 1 year ago
@kawibbyrule nah personaly I think the 450 have more power than a 250 2 stroke but they stopped makin 2 stroke because of evironmental shit and everything I think. but there will always be a huge rivality around 2 stroke guys and 4 strokes. personaly I'm not bullshiting on any of the 2 , 2 are really fun but really different to handle
beluga420 1 year ago
@beluga420 no shit its hard to handle a 250 2 stroke i mean out of nowhere BAMM FUCKING power band lol its funny as hell but sometime sucks lol but that all about owening a 250 2 stroke
kawibbyrule 1 year ago
@kawibbyrule yep this is what i particulary like from a 250 2 st. its DAMN AGRESSIVE DRIVING HEHE
beluga420 1 year ago
I thought the side bar was funny. Its more like 4 or 5 HP compared to the others LOL
The CRF450 looks a bit high (2 or 3 hp) and @ 6000rpm should be +/- 32hp compared to other CRF450 Dyno charts. (Check others here) I have left this here as it has a direct comparison to other models.
I am fairly sure this a Honda sales pitch dyno. Doctored just a bit.
999HitMan666 2 years ago 8
And as we see the 250 2st completely rapes the 250F.
TheOfficialKC 2 years ago 14
@TheOfficialKC
I dont believe the 450 dyno at all!
Other 450 dyno's from this channel show lower numbers for all of them! - The torque curve is also lower as well.
4T advert for suckers - LOL
999HitMan666 2 years ago 5
Yep. As i was saying if you actually compare 250cc to 250cc you will see that 4-strokes are crap.
TheOfficialKC 2 years ago 3
Almost ALL 450's in 09 do around 48Hp!
Detuned Jap 250's doing around the same. Euro 250's doing over 50hp
Torque on a modern 4T NOT THAT GOOD! Get closer to CC for CC a 1987 CR500 stock stomps a 09 XR650 for torque!!
450 not even close on torque with a CR500 or KX500 from the 80's
A 09 450 is only just ahead of a Euro 250 in torque! That is Fuel Injection vs Carb!
But you do have 10X the BILLS on 4T Thats just the way Japan likes it!
WAITING FOR Fi on 2T! Less emissions + EVEN more HP
999HitMan666 2 years ago 8
Oh yeah. With DFi a 250 2T will have the same hp and torque curve as a 450 4T. Just as much low end torque and hp. And it will have cleaner emissions than a 4T. And it will still weigh 30lbs less. I want a 380 (like my KTM 380SX) with DI. It will weigh 20lbs less than a 450, make 15hp more, get better emissions and mpg. That's my dream bike.
TheOfficialKC 2 years ago 2
@999HitMan666 have you forgotten that 450's are also detuned? why its amazing how you four stroke haters are quick to say two strokes are detuned yet 450's have been detuned since 08!! I have a 450 and no 2 stroke really comes close but a cr500...but none the less 2 strokes are fast..but when compared to a 450 ..they are kinda weak...450 has power as soon as i hit the throttle..you will ring out a 2 stroke trying to keep up
tappmoney18 11 months ago
@tappmoney18 There are SO many variables, they are almost impossible to even compare. But I agree with you somewhat. I am one of those die hard 2 stroke lovers who will forever run premix, but I had a CRF450, and I'll tell you what that bike is 2nd to only the 92 KX500 I had... Power, power, power. I admit the new 4's are crazy fast and turn RPM and HP = to any 2 stroke, I was just born and raised on KX's and I'll never quit em. I don't get why people won't admit new 4's are nice LOL
swill5191 10 months ago
@swill5191 2 strokes are great machines...lol im the only 1 in my family who has 1...but when my cousin rode he says its far superior than his cr250...when I rode his 250 I instantly noticed that the power is in higher rpm...i like 2 strokes they are fast bikes but I will keep my crf450...they wont admit four strokes are nice because they live in the past
tappmoney18 10 months ago
@tappmoney18 Or YOU won't admit 2-strokes are better because you can't ride. It takes more skill to ride a 2-stroke. But the reward is far more fun than a 4-stroke will ever provide. A 450 is slightly faster in the straights but it turns like a tractor.
Also compare properly. Sure, ridden by a good rider a 250 will keep up with a 450, but compare a CR500AF to a CRF450. That bike has more top end, low end, and torque than a 450. And still lighter.
TheOfficialKC 9 months ago
@TheOfficialKC Na I can ride..We drag race...maybe you cant ride..its not that difficult to ride a two stroke...you will ring a 2 stroke trying to keep up with me on my 450 lol..cr500af...already beat 1...by more than 2 bikes...But they are great bikes..I have been neaten by them on occasions but I will always stay with my 450!! 500 days are over!! get with the times kid
tappmoney18 9 months ago
@tappmoney18 Okay, drag racing. So yeah, not using a dirt bike for its purpose. Like using a F1 car for drag racing.
A 250 will get beat(but they also haven't been developed since 2002). A KTM 300 will actually beat a 450 in a drag race. Bet you never ridden one.
And you probably raced old CR500s. Get with the times, a Service Honda 500AF makes 65hp. That is15hp more than a new 450. And it weighs 20lbs less. It WILL win in a drag and around a track. And that is a 1980s engine design.
TheOfficialKC 9 months ago
@TheOfficialKC Wrong again..KTM300 got beat by my team mates yahama yz450f on 1 wheel..we have plenty of vids destroying cr500af's, ktm250/300's, cr250's,and any other 450's...The plus they already did track test on the cr500af vs crf450r and the 450 had faster lap times with the amateur, intermediate, and pro riders all had better times on the 450... We like to have fun..plus a purpose for a dirt bike is for whatever we want to use it for..who are you to judge??
tappmoney18 9 months ago
@tappmoney18 I've seen plenty of videos of stock 300s pulling away(slowly) from stock 450s. I have also seen a test of a service honda 500af vs a 450 and the 500 was faster, by several seconds, by several riders.
TheOfficialKC 9 months ago
@TheOfficialKC ..Ive seen many Cr500 riders switching from those dinosaurs to 450's...its all about the rider....Test I seen the cr500afaf didn't have a good a powerband as the crf450r does..plus it got smoked on a tight track and on the open track...450 was just better...now I read where the kx500af was faster than the kx450f in those same test
tappmoney18 9 months ago
@tappmoney18 I'm not talking about a stock 1985 cr500. Or even a stock 2002 CR500. I am talking Service Honda 500AFs.
A 450f makes ~48hp. A Service Honda 500AF makes 65hp. A 450f weighs 240lbs and the 500AF weighs 225lbs.
If the 500 gets beat in a drag, the rider must be retarded. On a track they will be similar, but a good rider can get several seconds a lap faster on a 500.
Also, low end power on the 500 kills a 450.
TheOfficialKC 9 months ago
@TheOfficialKC my 450 came with 55 stock..I have an 02 runs great..and I beat a 500 in a drag ..the rider is good he beat me twice, and I beat him twice..very close runs....but low end power...I say 450
tappmoney18 9 months ago
@tappmoney18 Every major magazine tests every 450 and they are all about 48hp stock. Okay you may have beat a old 500. Whatever. And again, compare low end to a "new" 500.
TheOfficialKC 9 months ago
@TheOfficialKC false again..Have you not heard about the new ktm's,yzf''s,kxf's crf's..all over 50. ktm has 53 hp stock.... Your not going four strokes their due... And when i race a "so called" "new" 500. You will be the first to know. they new 450's are detuned especially Honda and they still have 50 or more horses..now dnt get me wrong I have nothing against 500's or 2 strokes in general... a 500 is a powerhouse but so are 450's
tappmoney18 9 months ago
@tappmoney18 A 450 is detuned? What the hell does that mean? Anything can make more power, that doesn't mean it is detuned. By that I can say a 500 is detuned. Even at 65hp. And those are 20 year old engines.
If you think a bike with 15hp less and 20lbs more is going to be faster in a drag, then you are high.
TheOfficialKC 9 months ago
@TheOfficialKC means that they sacrificed hp so they could be ridden easier which means you will go faster....more power doesn't mean anything if you can't hold on or hook up!! 500 have more hp but 450's get more power to the ground and in doing so they go faster.
tappmoney18 9 months ago
@tappmoney18 they get more power to the ground because they're more forgiving to people who don't have the coordination to control a 500 2t. a good experienced rider wouldn't have a problem with this
puuuutube 8 months ago
@puuuutube lol who are you?? you don't even have any videos? do you even own a bike? I ride all types of bikes but from experience the 450 is hands down the best! when yo get a bike and learn how to ride then talk
tappmoney18 8 months ago
@tappmoney18 no point in trying to argue with a kiddiot who just acquired his first bike which is a 450 and will violently defend his [mom's] purchase. no videos, sorry, but after watching your shitty videos I can't find it within me to give you the benefit of the doubt. you are an idiot. leave this thread immediately and take your fucking 4joke with you.
puuuutube 8 months ago
@puuuutube lol kiddiot? I bought my bike over 3 years ago... Unlike you I have a job and dpnt need mommy to hold mey hand. You havent even bought a bike let alone a camera. Get a job and work hardand maybe just maybe you will have the funds to purchase many bikes just like me.. until then put up or shutup!!
tappmoney18 8 months ago
@TheOfficialKC don't believe me? Check out the videos of House of pain vol 1,2,3,4,5 im on most of them...look at the 1st video so you can see my little interview...im on the black crf450r# 68 named Iron Mike Tyson...its pretty cool videos check us out.. I mean no disrespect to anyone. I love racing dirt bikes and riding street bikes.. I love the sport!!!
tappmoney18 9 months ago
@999HitMan666 right on man ;) my cr500 was a great bike to ride , lloads of torque on low rpm`s
supermotardmario 9 months ago
250 2t and 250f's arent even in the same class bud. 250 2t go against 450F's
WetDirtProductions 1 year ago
@WetDirtProductions Not the same racing class but in reality cc = cc. Displacement = displacement. And in that comparison 4-strokes suck.
And if you knew your history you would know that until the last 10 years it was always equal displacement rules. Compare the bikes without giving the 4t a handicap and they are crap in racing.
TheOfficialKC 1 year ago
i know, i didnt meen racing. I was comparing the power. 2t do suck for racing, lol i'll admit but i still love em and wouldent ever go 4 stroke :p
WetDirtProductions 1 year ago
@WetDirtProductions you mean 4t suck for racing? If you mean current MX racing rules, yes 2t is not as competitive, but they don't suck. If by real world standards 4t sucks at racing. That is why in the big bore classes in Enduro it is ruled by 2t.
TheOfficialKC 1 year ago
oh i know i wasnt saying 2t suck, i love 2t bikes. but for racing with todays rules 4t is better. but yah i agree with everything your saying lol
WetDirtProductions 1 year ago
@TheOfficialKC 2 stroke fires twice as much as a 4 stroke, of course it will beat it
travisneil 9 months ago
@travisneil And my point is people always say 4-strokes superior. Not if you actually compare them correctly. cc for cc, a 2-stroke produces far more power AND torque than a 4-stroke. And still weighs less. And is more reliable.
TheOfficialKC 9 months ago
@TheOfficialKC definitely not more reliable, cheaper to fix yes. And why would you compare them cc to cc when the 2 stroke is using twice the fuel? Don't get me wrong I love 2 strokes but there is a reason why four strokes are taking over.
travisneil 1 month ago
@travisneil First, 2-strokes ARE more reliable. They go more hours than a 4-stroke and when a 4-stroke has a problem it is major.
Second, I compare them cc to cc because 250 = 250. I hope you understand math, or can at least count. You compare equal size. And for the same size engine the 2-stroke is more powerful and lighter. As far as fuel economy goes, research Direct Injection on 2-strokes.
TheOfficialKC 1 month ago
@TheOfficialKC holy shit, 250 = 250 thanks for the clarification. I don't think CMRC understands this concept and have decided to race 250 2 strokes with 450 4 strokes. If you are going to talk about economy you might want to research emissions.
travisneil 1 month ago
@travisneil It is simple why 4-strokes are "taking over". Marketing. The big manufacturers can sell them for more $. Sell them for more profit then change the race rules so 2-strokes are obsolete so everyone has to buy a new 4-stroke. Make them less reliable so you sell more parts. They don't care about selling good bikes, just making more money. And by the way, 2-strokes are growing faster than 4-strokes again. Go to a local track and see, there are more than in the past 5 years.
TheOfficialKC 1 month ago
@TheOfficialKC Ya must be a conspiracy. Its definitely not the low end torque and SMOOTH power band. I know its hard to let go of things sometimes.
travisneil 1 month ago
@travisneil You are a confused person. Now that you understand that 250 = 250, you can start to see how the two engines compare. Ever heard of engine tuning? Porting? Go ride a low end ported 250 2-stroke back to back with a 250 4t. Guess what, the 2-stroke will have MORE top end AND more low end. Yep, if you want low end torque and smooth power, 2-strokes are STILL BETTER. Wonder why they dominate hard enduro?
TheOfficialKC 1 month ago
@TheOfficialKC ya the kx power curve real smooth!?
travisneil 4 weeks ago
@travisneil With EQUAL displacement, a 2-stroke can easily have more power everywhere, weigh less, handle better, and be cheaper/easier to own.
And I can tell you didn't research DI yet.
TheOfficialKC 1 month ago
@TheOfficialKC I can tell you get off to 2 strokes! i LIKE 2 STROKES TOO! (not as much as you though) Ive owned more 2 stroke bikes then 4 strokes, and I can definitely say i like 4 strokes better. In my experience they are more reliable, and funner to ride. That's not saying that 4 stroke is better for every application (how u feel about 2 strokes) and as for 250=250, does 1 then equal 2 for for firing frequency?? That's like saying a Wankel engine should equal to a normal 4t
travisneil 4 weeks ago
@travisneil Just to let you know, I grew up on 4-strokes. The reason I love 2-strokes is because of the design. Get an engineering degree and you will see, 2-strokes are superior. EQUAL size 2-strokes are more powerful AND lighter. You don't think that is fair? Compare the outside dimensions. The same outer size 2-stroke will be much bigger displacement and WAY more powerful. Got it yet? No? Compare equal weight, a 2-stroke will be far more powerful and more compact.
TheOfficialKC 4 weeks ago
@travisneil Whichever dimension you choose to compare them fairly, the 2-stroke is superior. More power, less weight, less complex, more compact, less rotating inertia, cheaper, less maintenance and with modern DI less emissions and better fuel economy.
I don't understand your Wankel comment. They are on par with 2-strokes for power/weight. So with equal displacement to a 4-stroke they will rape a 4-stroke.
TheOfficialKC 4 weeks ago
@travisneil Apparently you can't read. I never said this KX250 had a smooth power curve. Look at ENDURO bikes. Bikes built to have smooth power curves. Or get a ported bike. If you port, head mod and get the right pipe for a 2-stroke not only will the 250 2T make 10hp more peak than a 250F, it will make more power EVERYWHERE.
4-strokes can be very reliable (my XR250 for example) but when tuned like modern MX bikes they are ticking time bombs. Money holes.
TheOfficialKC 4 weeks ago
@TheOfficialKC 2 stroke fires twice as much as a 4 stroke, of course it will beat it. I am suprised by the kx's low end torque though
travisneil 9 months ago
@TheOfficialKC duh.. why do you think they let 125 2 strokes compete against 250 4 strokes ...
When racing against a 2 stroke with a 4 stroke you need to double the volume of the cilinder for and "even"
power/torque. So you put a 250 2 stroke against a 450 4 stroke...
Still I bet i could rape a 250 2st with my crf250. It's all about skill.
TheKillgore521 6 months ago
@TheKillgore521 Exactly, 4-strokes are inferior. Thanks for proving it. 4-strokes need double the displacement to be competitive power wise. But that still doesn't do the trick. They also give the 2-strokes weight penalties. They also modified the tracks to favor 4-strokes.
An unskilled rider would be faster on a 250 4t than a 250 2t. But a skilled rider would be faster on a 250 2t than a 250 4t.
TheOfficialKC 6 months ago
@TheKillgore521 you aint gonna rape a 2st with the same size 4st
xicepurex 1 month ago