Fundamentals Tutorial Part 3.5: Micro - SC2 Noob School

[dannywhittick]

pretty nice vid. much better than your first one. Good job

[bobbob9360]

thankyou

[oerjkjgj]

nice demo.. that moving around instead of attacking always reminds me of dragoons in SC1 - autoattacking = just suicide =).

[mday93]

a game within a game... Gameception

[xDemonJohn]

4 likes away from 1337 :D

[OoohYouTouchMyTaLaLa]

3:55 the red marauders had concussive shells and the blue ones didn't... was even more unfair for the blue than you thought :\

[desoan]

@OoohYouTouchMyTaLaLa nice catch, although i don't see that it affected blue's movement very much at all

[alonrockes]

how do i get that training thing that you can play as each class and upgrade and have unlimited controll?

[quzishen]

@alonrockes sc2mapster. com/ maps/ unit-tester no spaces though

[Darrent88]

Great Stuff!! Can you talk about Focus Firing units? When it is best to do it, and when it is not because of wasted damage/overkill. Which units for Terran and the mechanics, like do you use Shift A or just Right cllick?? Thanks.

[VVinst0n]

u looks like jesus teaching sc2

[AnotherandomguyXD]

@VVinst0n exactly my thought^^

[UraharaTauh]

... You always want marauders in front. Marauders have SO much more hp. To allow marines to fire in the back, stutter step forward. Now, every unit is attacking, but your marauders are tanking.

[bumblebumz]

Its actually 13 marines left

[superkaramellen]

Thank you so much, i've never played this game, but im gonna buy it when i get money :D

Really great tutorial :)

[comedyjake]

so can u still get that map

[TheTumba1]

Thank YOU! Great stuff!

[3rogue]

lol 1001 likes now

[CodeRedMD6969]

I got sc2 yesterday and did a lot of research on build orders, watched gameplays ect. and was getting destroyed by people that i knew didn't have good build... now I know why! tysm :D

I always had my marauders in front of marines -.-

also your macro video helped so much :D

I'm a noob now, but this made me less of a noob!

[Ryosuke1208]

Why doesnt starcraft has army formations like Age of empires?

[Potts132]

@Ryosuke1208 Cause that makes it to noob friendly, takes less micro

[Ryosuke1208]

@Potts132

And not worrying microing economy like age of empires isn't noob friendly? or control unit buildings in starcraft? or set your rally point to follow your units isn't noob friendly?

[Potts132]

@Ryosuke1208 In Sc2 you don't need to micro economy, second sentace makes no sense and way points? Hell take out hotkeys and box selecte while we are at it that is way to noob friendly. I mean really think a little bit

[Ryosuke1208]

@Potts132 I dont think its noob friendly as now you have to put your effort in your strategy and more macro and it enables for more types of gameplay, sc2 has alot tto be explored.

[HugoFoxHH]

hey how do i turn the health bar on when i select the unit???

[d0n1uca]

so red marines are stronger than blue marines

;)

[newaxelman]

@d0n1uca LOL! good one

[cesaramoga]

You are a very cool guy and a great teacher. I teach small kids. kudos my friend

[grind55]

I'm new, good tip dude, thx u.

[mpm1900]

I just got SC2 and love it, its my first RTS, and would anyone like to help me with a more hands on approach to get better?

[O4Orsum]

Great tutorials! Could you make a slight mention about 'dancing', or even simply advancing all your units into a battle such that all units are in range of attacking? (like the M&M example)

[JohnSCostello]

Your Marines-in-front-of-Marauders example was biased because your left-side Marauders had concussive shells and your right-side Marauders didn't (look at the color of the explosions -- concussive shells are blue, normal are orange...)

[RemeN210]

@JohnSCostello

It's a minimal difference, it's still best to put the short range units in front :)

[roland2005uk]

Where's the unit testing thingy? is that in game or some sort of addon?

Oh and thanks for the videos..

[EukorOnadroig]

7 people missed the like button :D

[tyreseburn]

Question: Similar situation with the marines and marauders. Lets say if you can get both the marines and marauders in range is it not better to have the marauders in front cause they have 125 hp and are armored and can probably tank the damage better?

[Briancmwilliams]

@tyreseburn In terrran versus terran or protoss you almost always want marines in front, unless they have siege or high templars. Against Zergs I almost always put the marauders in front because of the risk of banelings infestors or mutas (they normally come from a flank).

As a general rule of thumb dps is more important than tanking damage. All the examples I gave were exceptions where your army is so devastated your dps drops too fast.

[tyreseburn]

@Briancmwilliams Good tip vs. Zerg thanks :)

[alahad]

you are so weird... XD

[source144]

thanks dude really helps!

gonna watch all videos tomorow or something..

[kordaling]

goodjob !

[doubledh1]

Hey, for the concave-formation advantage part, if i was engaged with my marines in the choke point, then would moving all the marines forward enough for the back units to be able to fire be better than letting them not fire at all?

[SC2NoobSchool]

@doubledh1 I suggest you go test it out! Playing around in the Unit Tester can be a very enlightening experience, so just go for it.  Let me know what you learn, too, because I'm curious :)

[doubledh1]

@SC2NoobSchool just tested it. I'm pretty sure when faced with a choke point, allowing all your units to fire slightly evens out the engaged numbers in exchange for the opening deaths (to move into position). on a normal basis concaving vs. cramped gets you a win and somewhere near 45% less deaths then a straight-on battle. if you are the guy who's cramped but doesn't move, you just die. by moving into position you get 20-35% more kills before your troops are eliminated

[SC2NoobSchool]

@doubledh1 Cool find.

[Tomster10010]

@doubledh1 If you do this, it will only work better as long as there aren't multiple ranks of enemies

[jshortoc]

Nice video... my question is using the keyboard. I see units "dancing" and I've never been really good at it, how do they "dance" their units so quickly? I know about hotkeys... what specifically are they doing?

[Cipher556]

@Marqisguthrie if you have to spam with mutliple accounts, clearly your tutorials suck..

[A550RGY]

Well done, sir, well done.

[am64135]

can u please do a unit spot light: Marines Maruders...but used as a 1st early game offensive instead of just a regular spotlight?

Great Videos. they help me a lot...i play terran and could use any advice from u videos

[regreegg]

You're awesome. :D

[Evilbones76]

Hi, thanks for this - I'm new to the game, and thus have a question. You see players focus-firing, using multiple units, down a single unit at a time, from a bunch of enemy units, while micro'ing. Now, do they do this via the attack move button. I.e, they click move, then click Attack move on a specific unit - then rinse and repeat for each unit you want to kill.

[toure7]

damn i am a noob and this game is like rocket science. I need to spend months of exercise to become at least mediorce. It's so hard to use macros to make units from buildings and at the same time micros at battle.

[RosnerMen]

great tutorials

[Winstet420]

3 Heavy macroers disliked this video

[xLingyy]

@Winstet420 hhhaa

[Domo230]

Great vids, im actually starting to win games.

[JoNnYShizzle]

It took me 3 minutes to realize you put yourself as the 3d portrait, I thought that was cool in addition to the fantastic tutorial.

[thomasi6]

You are a great dude ! keep up the good work ! I really apreciate the work you put in these video's !

[GhostDrow]

Cont'd. Two things, one who the heck are you talking to that you think high ground isn't as important in sc2 as it was in sc1? ITS EXTREMELY more important because you cant see up cliffs! You can demolish your enemies army while taking zero damage if they don't have an air unit!

Two, did you just say the AI in sc2 isn't that great? Its the best fucking AI in a game so far... Seriously go do some research on it, its fucking amazing AI

[SC2NoobSchool]

@GhostDrow Yeah, yeah, the AI in SC2 is amazing :) I guess I was just talking about with respect to that particular situation on that particular map--but otherwise, it's great! About the MM positioning thing--I very well may be wrong *shrug* What matters though is driving home the point that the position of your units relative to each other is important, and in THIS particular situation, marines in front works better. Thanks for the insightful comments! :-D

[Pen7Ninja]

@GhostDrow in sc1 it was still difficut to get decent sight up cliffs, ude get sight of like one unit when it attacked u, then itd disappear and because of the chance to miss in sc1 when shooting higher ground, its a pain to kill high ground units. in sc2, once u have sight, which is much easier to get than sc1 (no observatory needed, watchtowers, cliff jumping reapers and scans) ude hit 100%.

when he says the AI is bad, he means the AI compared to another player who wouldnt be THAT stupid

[GhostDrow]

With Terran in sc2, MM is only really used/viable in TvZ / TvP, and the units you will face usually at first will be zealot/stalker for Protoss, Roach/Zerglings/Hydras for Zerg

Because Roach Have range 3 and zealots / zerglings are melee if you have your marauders in front of your marines they with both still fire, but if your marines are in front they will just get eaten alive by those units.

Against stalkers / Hydras you have to micro your army forward a little and take dmg to do MORE dmg

[Pen7Ninja]

@GhostDrow simple MMM micro, run, hold position, run, hold position.

this stops the melee units getting way too close and the marines dieing too quickly and if ur marauders r in the back, they still attack and slow down the enemy so they cant reach the marines b4 they die, then the ranged units cant back away to stop ur marines shooting coz they can get close enough.

[Pen7Ninja]

@GhostDrow theres more, in TvZ u can easily hold micro ur MMM ball away from a reasonable amount of roaches, ur marines outrange them too and ur marauders outrange the marines so if theyre in the back, every1 shoots while the roaches r still out of range

[GhostDrow]

Excuse me but you are saying you want your marines in front of your marauders?

That is extremely extremely incorrect. Your marines are the damage dealers you want them in the back. The only reason the battle you showed worked out that way is because marauders do extra damage to armored, and marauders are armored + you didn't take the 1/2 second of micro to move the marauders up one space so they could tank while the marines fired behind them.

Cont'd in new post :p

[YourUncleBill]

@GhostDrow Although you are very likely to be correct... the fundamental which he taught made perfect sense to me. I'm very new and these videos are helping a lot and the point he made about keeping units with longer range in the back worked out. You seem to know a ton more and these videos probably weren't for you. If he had told me to put the units with shorter range in the front I would be completely confused. I think he did a great job for me and many others who need to get the basics.

[GhostDrow]

@YourUncleBill When the basics you are learning is incorrect they end up hurting you in the long run. I would love nothing more then to work with the maker of these videos in order to make sure the information he is teaching is correct. I doubt that will happen though so I posted what was wrong

[Pen7Ninja]

@GhostDrow even tho ur right in ur next comment saying MMM is useless in TvT, remember that if u move ur MMM forward with the marines in the back so the marines can attack, the opponent just has to move his MMM back a bit so ur marines cant attack any more while he still has more of his army attacking

also yes, the marauder vs armored attack boost helped because all the opponent's marauders were up front, if they were at the back, the marines would take the normal damage while every1 attacked.

[CrazyHorse151]

^^ i like it

[yoiyoiyoi92]

is it clever to micro focus fire like in warcraft3 ? or should i just let my units attack how they want?

[Chiavarii]

How did you put them in a concave quickly? i usually have to put each one and hold position rinse and repeat.. ?

[SC2NoobSchool]

@Chiavarii Your units will form a that concave on their own.  Just attack-move near the enemy (not on a specific unit) and they'll line up nicely by themselves.

[struggle375]

wow awesome videos please keep it up.

[skayloss]

i'll be glad to send this to my sc2 friends but they only speak french... too bad this is really helpfull for begginner or even medium players ! =)

[Voltaire115]

Awesome videos. I listen to them at work to help me memorize principles. You should consider doing podcasts as well. It could be good for discussing very specific items. iPhone format plzzzzzx keep up the good work!

[Slayermagic]

hey man, most of the zerg players are getting more and more angered vs the terran bio build as well as mech.. any advice for fighting mass marauder with marines in the back (they toast roach and shoot down lings before they even arrive

[thomasrabbit199]

how can you do the stuff you did in the video i mean play both teams on small map? :D:D

[Ahhhoki]

In my experience, it is superior to have marines behind the marauders and just micro your entire ball/wall into close enough range for marines to hit from behind the marauder line. Otherwise, the enemy marauders will kill your marines in a matter of seconds. Contrarily, with marauders in front they are able to absorb a significantly greater amount of damage before going down. Your marines should only be out of range for a second or less with proper micro and be the last thing in your army to die

[simpan105]

Dude you are the best! Now I mayby will be able to win a little xD

[eldiablo303]

Question, if you have a bunch of marines, is it smart to move them in a bit forward so they can all shoot right away, or let them form a concave by themselves? IE MarinesVMarines

[Quasitify]

About the marine and marauder positioning. I guess it's all depends on what you attack. Attacking a mostly melee group would make range not as important and it'd be better to have marauders at the front as meat shield.

[jamez1908202]

I have a question...

Now.say you have a m&m ball with medivacs to heal them. If your take that ball and go up a ramp into the enemy's base and they attack you while your still on the ramp.....is it better to get off the ramp and take the damage for the amount of time it takes or is it better to stay on the ramp and keep on fighting?

[SC2NoobSchool]

@jamez1908202 Fighting while ON a ramp is possibly the worst place you can be in a battle. Imagine the concave the enemy will get around you! Definitely retreat in a scenario like this--If you're super slick you can even load up in your medivacs for a faster escape.

[jamez1908202]

@SC2NoobSchool alright, thanks for the advice. I always stayed on the ramps :/ so this is good stuff ;)

[xeruz83]

heya - well im not noob anymore but i take all the input I can get (especially cos the beta is still down^^) - you do a nice job - keep it. Im rly lookin forward for the more advanced stuff you coming up with. ;)

[Sentinells]

very nice... now build order bro... for toss!!!