One of the purpose of men who claims to be atheist is because they would attract people, if there are people,then there will be debate, if there will be debate, there is money.
Life has a PURPOSE. Life is good but eternal life is better.
As a Christian with MANY experience with atheists & past experiences as an atheist, I can tell you you're wrong. I'm Christian myself, & have seen things that will never let me fall from faith, but if you honestly believe what you talk of you've never been an atheist. I can promise you that. Just as atheists honestly believe all religious people are intentionally deluding themselves and don't really believe in God, you seem to believe they are just lying to themselves. This is false.
No the Bible doesn't REQUIRE murder and genocide? Evil is separate from God but we, as humans have the choice which way we will go. Christ's blood saves the WHOLE world because we humans have blood in common. If someone CHOOSES to NOT accept, that is not the fault of God or Christ.
The bible requires absolutes like murder, genocide, and says the earth is flat, with a solid dome above it. And he doesn't believe in relativism or interpretation.
I think I start to see why he did so poorly in school, with views like that.
@nanamiyuki Personally i dont think the bible 'requires murder and genocide' but i do know that god did condone it in the old testament. and i havent met a person who can rationalize it in defense of god without alluding to the fact that either 'it was for the greater good' or 'god has the right to do whatever he wants' which are atrocious answers.if you could be the first to give a valid justification, then please do.
@apathy7170 An atheist is someone who does not believe in any god and religion. If he stated that he believed in god but not very strongly, he was not an atheist.
PastorIblis is Bahasa Indonesia or Malay for Devil Pastor. Your insulting word reflects who actually you are pak. You are not far from what bad things you say
@moair You dont have to take me seriously. There is no law against believing in fairy tales. Atleast not in America, where most of the country believes in them. One day, religions will be taught as nothing more than mythology
@MrKGatl My point is you have discredited faith on the basis of the susceptibility of the mind. Which begs the question can your statement be trusted. I assume it is with the use of YOUR mind that you formulated this opinion?
You make a good point that MrKgati puts perfect faith in what his mind believes and attacks anyone who does not share his world view. How can he be sure His opinion is correct? Reason can only take anyone so far and then there is the leap of faith. I have reasoned that the evidence for Jesus is strong enough to take the leap of faith and believe in Jesus. The atheist take the leap of faith and rejects God. We are both men of faith but MrKGati will deny this truth
@moair I quoted a fact that Professor Dawkins said, then I made an opinion of my own. Faith is irrational, another opinion of mine that is shared by others.
@MrKGatl Okay..I assumed you quoted Mr Dawkins because you believed his statement...I would have to disagree with you as well. To suggest science holds the answer to how something came from nothing, absent any scientific evidence to substantiate such a theory is indeed faith. On the contrary Christians faith is based on the evidence of creation, the reality of absolute morality, Through historical documents, and through experience.
@moair The problem with your statement is they do have scientific evidence of how the universe began. I dont have faith in science, because faith is the absense of evidence, I believe science for its evidence and theories. There is no evidence of creation, therefor your faith is irrational. Historical documents? Morality? So you think christians are the only ones who have morality? Like the morality of the bible, giving your daughter up as whores and owning slaves? Both are in the bible
@MrKGatl What is the scientific evidence that provides for something appearing from nothing? To say well give me energy first and then ill explain, or give me molecules or protein first, or a black hole...all of these as im sure you are aware dont testify to where they originated..To say science has the answer, without the scientific evidence, is unscientific. Next if morality is a matter of opinion to you i.e no absolute right or wrong... On what bases does your scrutiny of the bible stand?
@MrKGatl You see if there is an absolute law of what is good,and evil...There is an absolute law giver..God. If there is not absolute good and evil..i.e raping an infant would not be wrong only a matter of preference, or opinion than your scrutiny of the bible as immoral falls apart...
@moair Where do you get absolute law? Thats rediculous. The bible is filled with evil deeds done by people and god a like. Have you actually read the bible, the judeo christian god is terrible. Who would want to follow that god anyways. I dont need some fairy tales to tell me that raping is wrong. I dont need a babysitter to be good. Just the way the bible was constructed by Constantine should make it questionable enough. The god from the bible is imperfect and evil
@MrKGatl On what bases do you make a distinction from good an evil? Outside of an ultimate authority there is no good or evil,only personal opinion which implodes your whole argument. Moral claims are absolute, they dont change based on personal opinion. So you can rightly say rape is wrong regardless of the next mans opinion. Not because your opinion magically holds more authority than the next mans, but because there is a ultimate entity by whom laws transcends both men.
@MrKGatl I don't address some of your specific issues like the claim the bible and God is evil because for now those indictments are irrelevant. You would have to admit in your opinion there is no truth which means rape is neither right nor wrong. Or that somehow your opinion on the matter should hold more weight than a dissenting mans opinion, and the question would be why. Or admit that we live in a moral universe. Governed by moral laws,given by the moral law giver. God.
@moair Religions do not have a monopoly on morality. Thats not just rediculous, but arrogant as well. People had morals before religion and they will have morals when religions like christianity, judaism, and islam are taught as mythology. Yes there was truth when I said the god of the bible is evil. Rape is wrong and I dont need fairy tales to tell me that. Yeah god has great morals, like endorsing slavery, giving up your daughter as a whore, killing the first born when he get upset, etc...
@MrKGatl Its rather hard to make this point to you..To make the claim that every man is his own God and therefore illustrates morality for himself means there's no truth in morality. So you who are your own God and the next man who is his own can have conflicting moral outlooks, and be equally right.This eradicates truth. So on what bases do you condemn rape, is your statement true? Or is it made equally false with a dissenting view? Morality isn't an opinion its a truth given to us by God.
@MrKGatl And again,I would love to clear up your skewed understanding of the bible,but If I allow you to launch attacks on a ground of nonlogic in your premise we get no where. On one hand you say God is evil, and on the other hand your world view says that statement is as true as it is false. If you make the claim that your morality is true and therefore all conflicting moralities are false, you must explain why your opinion is supreme. You speak of arrogance. Whats more arrogant than that
@moair How am I arrogant when I say that the god from the bible is evil. There are many, many pieces of evidence that would support me. There is nothing illogical about those statements. I dont have a skewed understanding of the bible. If you read the bible, you would read about all of the terrible things that god has done. You're reading the bible with your mind already made up, which means that you will manipulate the bible to mean what you think it should.
@MrKGatl To suggest that your morality is supreme over all those moralities that contradict it is arrogant...What makes you the supreme authority on what is good and evil?And If you don't believe this than your claims of evil is merely an opinion, cant be considered truth, and therefore meaningless. Youv'e either made morality a question of individual taste in which case everything is permitted, decided YOU are the supreme definer of morality, or recognize God as our moral law giver.
@moair When did I say that my morality was supreme? I also never claimed to be a supreme authority on good and evil. You're getting pretty defensive there. I might as well believe in bigfoot or santa as my supreme moral law giver, since I believe in them as much as I believe in god. Your entire comment is pretty rediculous. I can be good without god. I dont need some imaginary babysitter guilting me into doing whats right or i'll be punished. Humans should be better than that.
@MrKGatl Okay were getting somewhere now. Then your morality is opinion. So you say in your opinion rape is wrong. I say in my opinion rape is good. Both opinions given equal weight because neither persons opinion is supreme like you said. Here's the problem. Both can't be true. The very definition of truth means that all those things that contradict it must be false. So how can it be the truth that rape is evil, and simultaneously good?
@MrKGatl Its funny you would say humans should better than that. Being better assumes purpose, it assumes intrinsic value..How does molecules and clay have purpose and intrinsic value?
@moair purpose is an immaterial question. Its like talking of nothings. do you need purpose to have morality? i dont think so. Molecules and clay have no purpose, thats another rediculous question.
@MrKGatl If you dont have purpose why should you be moral is a better question. But i rather not debate that now..I see u skipped the hard part..How do you deal with the issue of truth in your world view? How can things be evil and simultaneously good as I illustrated in my earlier thoughts?
@moair Its funny you say that..Molecules and clay have no purpose, no intrinsic value..But in your would view, were just that, molecules and clay..A combination of time plus matter, plus chance.
@moair You havent demonstrated anything with your earlier thoughts. What do you mean the issue of truth in my world? Morality and humanity both have evolved along with our intellect and brain capacity. I dont skip things, I only ignore some of your more idiotic questions. Please tell me where you get your morals from? And I have no idea what your talking about things being good and evil simultaneously, your thoughts are not very clear.
@MrKGatl .Ahh so I cant pin anything down as being good or evil because it evolves..Only that again implodes your argument that God is evil. Those deeds He did wernt evil, there simply evolving. Lets forget for a moment at the same time you say good and bad is evolving, you say there is no good and bad because its all a matter of personal opinion.
@MrKGatl If truth is eradicated because 2 opposing opinions given the same weight can make something both true, and false.. If morality evolves all without a point of reference because we can never settle on what is truly good and truly evil so therefore have no perception if we evolve for the good or for the bad, then it can be truly said that there is no other hope for mankind to have Truth than trough God that transcends the individual.
@moair The problem with your comment, is that you believe there is a god that transends everything else and gives us good and evil. Well I believe there is most certainly not any god or gods, so we as humans need to start solving the questions ourselves. There is no reason that people and civilizations cant exist with their own laws and morality. We dont need any fairy tales to settle on what is truly good and evil, you dont need a reference point. Its like asking where happiness comes from
@MrKGatl You say theres no reason we cant make our own laws and morality as a civilization. But why should one submit to another interpretation of morality? You suggest because the ultimate good is what is moral. But one may disagree..Maybe my personal good is whats moral. The problem you face time and again is that you want to live with moral absolutes...Pedophilia is wrong. But your world view suggest there is nothing absolute about morality.
@MrKGatl The greatest Atheistic minds Dawkins, Burton Russel, Kyle Neilson have admitted to a irrefutable logic. Naturalism cannot support the idea of morality, it is simply logically inconsistent. Your a man driven by logic? Answer this for me. Is a man that brutalizes a infant morally wrong if he is of the believe it is perfectly permittable and moral?
@moair You pose excellent questions that humanity is always facing. I have many of the same questions that you do, however, I do not answer any other those questions with god. We can get our morality collectively as a group. Sweden is one of the most atheistic countries and look at how peaceful they are. I know its only one example, but morality does not require religion. Evolutionarily we learned to take care of each other as well as to care for one another of our own species
@MrKGatl When your logic conflicts with your heart. When you KNOW that if a woman has been raped,this is a violation of what is right, and good, and sacred, but your world view tells you that feeling cannot logically be true, debate breaks down. We have to search ourselves both believers and non believers to see if we are truly seeking the truth. Or in the face of that truth do we turn away, and dig our heels deeper into an idea that can no longer justify itself.
@moair My logic doesnt conflict with my heart. Im getting tired of you telling me that my logic makes bad things ok. Atheists are very moral people, we just do it without god or religion. Is there anything better than being good just because its who we are and what we strive for. You submit to an imaginary force that has zero evidence, why not just make ourselves better and leave out the superstition. Pedophilia? what are you talking about?
@MrKGatl .Is rape wrong or not and why? Your being good because of you? What is good and how do you distinguish it from evil? Throw away this comment about Atheist cant behave be morally. I never made that argument and I don't believe it. But tells me how a Atheist can tell a rapist he is immoral?
@moair Of course rape is wrong and rapists are immoral. Rape violates ones freedom. I think it is immoral to violate someones freedom in that way. I understand the reason we need to question these things, but I think we can do it better by leaving god and religion out.
@MrKGatl Who says violating ones freedom is immoral? You know its fascinating to read what Burton Russell said a leading Atheistic mind of today. He said he cannot logically live consistent with his world view that morality is merely a personal preference. It is his understanding that to protect his child is moral, it's anothers understanding that brutalizing his child is moral. THERE MUST BE TRUTH!!!!! Your world view sir denies you that which is true.
@MrKGat I assume when you say rape is wrong, your not only talking about for yourself, but for those who disagree with you as well. How do you defend this outlook?
@MrKGatl SMH! To first defend why rape is wrong, you must defend why when another believes rape is good and the violation of personal freedoms is good, your statement is still true. You base your life,and your eternity on logic. You pose this as the reason you don't believe in God, why are you now running from the logical conclusion of your world view?
@moair No matter what circles you try to run, fairy tales are not the answer. You can talk all you want about what is and isnt moral, but in the end its up to us to lay out what is and isnt acceptable within our societies. This is not why I do not believe in god. I do not believe in god, because I see zero evidence for god and zero need for religion. I understand that religion has done some good for mankind, but as we get smarter and our intellect grows we have less need for superstition.
@MrKGatl It's funny you speak of circles when you still haven't answered the question. I don't believe in fairy tales seems to be your default answer in the face of dismantling questions about your faith. You say you don't see any evidence of God as if evidence were your point of reference. Bible says its not a matter of lack of evidence,its a matter of people suppressing the truth. The decision that this fundamental question doesn't have to be answered is evidence of that. Hope you reconsider.
@moair You're like a child asking why after everything I say. I dont have faith. Faith is irrational to me, it makes no sense to believe in something with no evidence. It just seems against common sense. The bible is what is suppressing the truth. Holding tight to antiquated mythology.
@MrKGatl It is a violation of the moral law that our creator has given us. Thats why rape is wrong from the perspective of a theist. So you cant answer the why. Theism can.. How about answer the how. What scientific evidence do you have of how physical matter came into existence? Protein, Molecules, Energy how did they come to be? You see void of this scientific evidence, your belief in science as the creator is merely faith in what you cannot substantiate. Science doesn't create..It explains.
@moair The bible condones and approves of rape, so that is a pretty terrible arguement. I never said that science created anything. But science is how we understand things, not throught superstition and the supernatural. My belief in science has nothing to do with faith, as i said before, faith is belief without a reason to believe, its absurd. So, I do not have faith in science or anything else. There is absolutely zero evidence of a divine creator, Santa has more evidence.
@MrKGatl Book, Chapter, and Verse on the Bible condones rape part. Your painting yourself into a pretty narrow corner here..We agree science merely explains. But you are quite wrong, whatever you believe is the cause, or has the answer to the cause of our existence without evidence substantiating it, would merely result in your faith in that medium.
@MrKGatl I hope you understand that it is incumbent on me to answer these contradictions you pose about rape in the bible..These questions cannot not go unanswered from a logical view point or my whole world view implodes. Similarly after you provide book, chapter, and verse, which you cannot, It is of the same importance that you address the contradictions of your faith or it similarly implodes.
@moair a few examples of rape in the bible: Judges 21:10-24 NLT, Numbers 31:7-18, Deuteronomy 20:10-14,Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Im tired of you infering that i have faith, you know what I think of faith. Im not trying to say that christianity is all bad and has no redeming qualities. Im just trying to show you that the judeo christian god, when looking at the entire bible, is not always an admirable figure. The god of the bible is not a perfect god, and who would want an imperfect god?
@MrKGatl Throughout the bible there are accounts of events that took place,both events that were consistent with who God was, and ones that wern't. Those verses don't suggest a contradiction on God's position on rape. So in the context of saying the bible is contradictory as is the world view of Atheism, simply untrue. Im aware you dont like the notion that I refer to ur faith, so give me evidence of how physical matter came to be and the statement would no longer be true.
@MrKGatl If i were to take the argument from your stand point. God has done something that i consider immoral,but oh yea,I have no bases by which to make that distinction..Okay Well I will grant that there is a God so that on that bases I can claim He has done something immoral. Only God is the author of the very morality we wishto condemn Him with. A morality that our finite minds dont even FULLY grasp. So can the creator of all rid of a village for His purposes,using His creation morally? Yes
@MrKGatl If God is no less moral for deciding a boulder will end a mans life,He is no less moral for using His creation to accomplish the same purpose.The bible also documents we were living under a Theocracy then, and when the theocracy ended due to the sins of the people,and so no more people killing in Gods name. We have evidence it is in Gods nature to take lives for His divine purpose. Thru your example, thru the tsunami that just took lives in Japan. No evidence that rape is His nature.
@MrKGatl For the record how the Christian world view deals with the question humanity faces is to first look at not the wrong doings of the world first, but the sin within our own hearts. Recognize in humility that we ourselves are in violation of the very evils we see in this world. We invest our trust in Christ, who came down,lived a sinless life, took our sins upon Himself, died for those sins so we might be reconciled with that moral law giver we call God. Thanks for a hearing...God bless.
@moair. You want to have a debate on if God is evil or not, but you have no frame of reference by which to make a distinction between the evil and good. Your world view boils down to the individual, and there opinion. Its like debating if apples taste good or not. I can say rape is wrong because for me its not an opinion, it is a God given truth. A truth that transcends the individual and there opinion. How can you make the same claim and it not be merely an opinion?
this was informative & helpful discussion;.I think it may also prove helpful to some of the viewers here to try to evaluate many of the more strident claims of the anti-theist critique ("brights") from a ideological/ metaphysics perspective. Check out the recent article by Jackson Lears in the May 16, 2011 issue of the The Nation entitled "Same Old New Atheism" .The article offers a compelling analysis of Sam Harris' works. Consideration is given to general atheistic social perspectives
He is into making money...I wish u all christian gathered a debate with Dr. Zakir Naik vs Ravi Zacharias. I would love to watch the debate. Hope one day we can see this. Peace
“If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you do have to believe that the main point in all religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake.” CS Lewis, Mere Christianity
God is a God that is loving,just and Holy...No christian rejoices in the thought of anyone going to hell...God does not send people to hell,people send themselves because of sin and rebellion.Jesus came that none would have to go to hell...he paid the price for our sin.. if we would only turn from sin and believe..seek the truth for yourself.
@PastorIblis Gods defintion of LOVE is shown and I have posted this many times. is this Jesus who WAS GOD, said There is NO greater LOVE than this, than he who lay down his life for another" Jesus was pointing to HOW he would DIE and save! the GREATEST form of love is that! and if people did not need saving Jesus would not need to come die, to SHOW the GREATEST definition of love.
@PastorIblis SO, You do agree that Dying for someone IS the greatesr form of love! You did not argue against that fact. You are repeating argument. I, no way will say that Christians desire people to to hell. People do that themselves. You also I think are making a drastic assumption that "believing" = "thinking differently" IS it not true that WHAT you believe WILL effect how you think?? how you act? Thinking differently and believing something are 2 entirely different things.
The thoughts a person has form the basis of what they believe and do!
You can't Believe something and Not Think it! How moronic are you?
As for this dying for someone else idea. Vicarious redemption is childish and immature not what someone that takes personal responcibility looks for! Your Dying for someone bullshit has nothing to do with if as a soldier I would takke a bullet to protect another in my unit.
@PastorIblis I have never been to hell, nor to heaven and come back. Nor have I been dead or come back, Only ONE person has and that is Jesus, WHo is my LORD. HE said hell exists. When you say "love does not torture those for thinking differently" YOU MUST distinguish from doing wrong and thinking differently. We are not sinners becaseu we "think differently: from God. we are sinners because we have DONE WRONG. YOu also WORK FROM YOUR defintion of LOVE God's.
The Catholic Crurch was started in 325 AD-not the Christian religion. There is a vast difference. Although a Catholic could possibly be a Christian, the two words are not synonymous. With that said, your info about them siding with Hitler is true-good point. Ravi always says,"don't judge an organization by its abusers." The Catholic Church has definitely abused it's power and hid behind the name of Christianity over the years.
Hitler was a Christian? Are you that stupid? I bet you think Bill Clinton is a Christian too. It's called propaganda. You think you know so much but you don't really know anything. You are talking out of your field. If you want to talk Carpentry-at least learn a little about it before you try telling a carpenter what he is doing wrong. That way you won't come off looking like a complete retard.
Not only was Hitler a Christian but the Catholic Church Helped Nazi's escape Germany after World War 2!
It was called the Vatican RAT LINE!
The Christian religion began in 325 AD Constintine order the councel of Necia to form the caynon. That was when Jesus Christ was invented. Prior to that it was a man named Apollonius of Tyana.
The myth of Hell was invented by the Roman Catholic Church as a means to scare people into belief.
Boy for an Athiest you sure spend a lot of time on Christian sites. And your an angry one too. For such a good person, you sure do swear alot. How ignorant.
Concerning the OT law being "imperfect," remember that Jesus said, "It was for the hardness of your heart that God allowed ..." So, we see that the ways of God are perfect, even when instituting an "imperfect" law. Please note that the word "imperfect" is in quotes, because the law is made perfect through the cross. In the same way, even the most "pious" of Christians fall way short of the God's righteous. Yet, we are made righteous through faith.
@shilohrenovation Ah, if that is what you mean I agree with that, yes, the previous OT laws were a foreshadoing of teh perfect things to come, the action of Jesus that would REALLY satisfy what the old testament cermonies did not accomplish
STARVATION: Mother Theresa said there is poverty because you and I do not share. Jesus fed the hungry. How are you doing in this department? Enjoying luxuries while kids starve, then stridently publicly strut your own morality? I mean this in all respect. On the day you stand before God, it will be you, not the Almighty, who will be guilty of wrong doing. I hope you will get right with God!
@PastorIblis I do not approve of burning people! it helps to think of hell as eternal SEPARATION from God, as it is defined in the Bible. That's all it is, becasue God can have no sin in his presence, I noticed that WHENEVER I pointed out an atheist who was a mass murderer, you sim ply call him "mad" . PLEASE please try and think of the people who murdered in the name of christianity as MAD also, they completely missed the MAIN message of that BIBLE, that JESUS SAVES.
Show CHAPTER AND VERSE where you get this idea of Seperation from?
If this God exists and is Everywhere as Christian's claim then it is a Contradiction and fucking impossible for anyone to be seperate from something that is everywhere.
However If you think Atheists are seperate from this God now well why should we care about an afterlife since it doesn't phase us now to not have this God notion!
It is YOU that wants this God to exist not the Atheist!
Both my parent are (secular) psychologists. My brother came over to my house with my teenage kids who love and obey, and with the love, peace, and joy of our home. He turned to my mother and asked, "Why didn't we have it like this when we were kids?" My answer? "It's Jesus!"
(Continued): BAD THINGS: If we have lied, we are liars; stolen? thieves. Because, unlike us, God is good, liars and thieves will not be in heaven - unless they are made new, born again, through the atoning work of Christ on the cross. GLORY! I hope to see you there! THINKING "LIKE ME:" It is more than thought. It is a friendship with Jesus Christ. He is my best friend. If you know and love Christ now, you will into eternity. Otherwise, you will be judged as a lying thief. God is good!
So a pedophile molests 50 children then accepts JESUS and MAGICALLY everything he did is wiped away!
While those children due to the emotional scars of the abuse they went through reject any notion of a God since No God did a damn thing to help them when they needed it.
So You would have a Serial Pedophile in Heaven and the victims Tortured endlessly!
Thanks for your thoughts. In 500 words or less, I will try my best to answer. Concerning the values of: LIFE-it is the Christian who opposed Obama's "let the 'live' abortion die" bill. TORTURE: On earth, people torment people. In hell, it will be infinitely worse. You cannot blame God! People can accept God's law or be a victim of their own! WITCH HUNTS: Jesus said to love our enemies, not burn them. THOUGHT CRIME: All evil starts in the brain. Personally, I love the work of Christ in my heart!
@PastorIblis Listen did you not hear me? I said ALL religion aside! this is not about Christianity anymore God created the morals. jesus was referring to the fact that no one was innocent. I have alread tried to address this, but you have been ignorant. What sounds better. "I can't kill somenody becasue IT IS wrong, A RULE that defines tha life is valuable! or saying "I won;t kill somebody becasue I "think" it is wrong. a simple "opinion" that lifeis valueable has NO bearing.
@PastorIblis It is not up to me to challenge God;s authority. We have all broken his laws. If God had just left us all to die you would have a point. But your argument collapses when I get to Jesus. God provided a WAY. (remember a WAY) not a "right way to think" he just said believe. I praise God for Jesus, it already happened. Remember what I said before? "there is no greater love than this than he who lay down his life for another?" It is THIS love that I praise.
@PastorIblis It just comes down to putting God in trial. But tha reality is, that God is Just. SO the killing we see happen her is Unjust. that is the difference. LIsten to this. God LOVE his creation! God loves the peopl he created. but he also has rulesC. S. lewis once said "There are people who say "God's will be done" and people who say "my will be done" and God seconds the motion." We choose. I have tried to argue this before, God is giving us a CHANCE to change right now!
@PastorIblis I do grasp that Like I said, I was not USING that to refer to God, I was using that to show that the parent punishes them for doing something bad,, becasue they are TEACHING , trainingthem what is right and what is wrong. I child does not just "sit there" and wait for the parent ot teach them, they do things like write on walls, throw temper tantrums, break things, to get their parents attention, they know it wil get their attention becaus they know they donlt like it.
@PastorIblis Of course it is You have not disproved what I said At all. It is EXPECTED to occur. I believe that too. I am NOT saying that we give children what they want! I am saying that WHY do children only want what they want in the FIRST place. It IS to be expected. You are correct but you give NO rationale as to WY it is that way. WHy children HATE being obedient at first. and have to be trained into doing it
@PastorIblis Testing the limits? You see that you have proven my argument. you call it "natural behavior" So do I. why do we test the limits of authority? animals are different, they first have animal parents which are different than their owners, so when someone adopts a pet, it quickly learns that the owner is in authority, the animal was also brought up with differenet rules. but in children this process takes YEARS to adopt, after birth! the issues is, why do Children, naturally do that?
The reason it takes years as opposed to weeks or months with animals is the human brains is more developed and humans develop slower then other animals.
The closest to humans is Monkeys and we can observe simular type behaviors in young monkeys.
You simply do not understand the natural process of growth.
During the Teenage years a Teen is trying to figure out who they are as their body changes into an adult.
This means they have to streach their wings so to speak!
@PastorIblis yes we can see similar types I said it was a natural process . Here this: Life is devalues when there is no specific law to state its value. This is aside from all religion. Perhaps you have shown me that saying "people sin naturally" is not the best argument for God. I alwasy wondered how people defend that, and you have shown me. I do understand the natural process, it is natural to not want authoritty. we hat is best for us. similar behavior does not facilitate same casue though.
@PastorIblis I am not sayin glife has no value, I am saying that there are consequences to actions, that is all. I know it seems like a harsh consequence, but we are not God. But the bible tells us that Until the gospel has been preached all over the world the kingdom of God has not come, meaning that everyone is given clear evidence of a creator. in creation. by its desogn and everything's purpose. There is a differnence from life having value and having consequences for actions
@PastorIblis people "agreeing" depends on what they agree upon. DOn;t you think it is important that we agree that life has value, Yes, i believe that too. there needs to be a dividing line between what is important and not important. It comes back to that quote again, from that madman, "What is there to atone for if there is no wrong in killing people" Unless there is a consequence for it, that the rules implies, than there really is no motivation for saying it really is wrong.
@PastorIblis I NEVR said I was never wrong, the PROBLEM with your argument is that you DON:T have a category FOr right and wrong, nor do you have a COnsequence for doing something wrong. God is JUST JUST JUST JUST, again JUSTICE. that is what Christians believe, that what God does in RIGHt simply becasue he is God, and he Is the CREATOR. Buthe LOVES his creation, THAT IS WHY JESUS CAME!
@PastorIblis I have agreed with you whole rant on the bvalue of of life I completely agree that life is of value! but here is the difference. You and I are talking about two different times, I am referring to NOW, you are referrring to afterlife, as if it was just as similar to now. CLearly, you know it is not, humans are not "sacrificed" as you say, becasue we DIE in the grave! see the point at all? Humans are already dead. THe punishent I am talking about is evil being dealt with.
@PastorIblis You seriously misinterpreted what I was saying. I was saying that What you argue about What God does pertains to AFTER they die!, in the afterlife, is that clear? I value your life! I value it again I will say it! I f I did not, It would not still be commenting. God values life ! He created it! JUST as a builder builds a building but he DOES NOT TEAR IT DOWN. God created life for his glory. PLEASE be more specific if you arguements EXACLTY how am I saying i "devalue" life
@PastorIblis I consider punishing evil to be Just, that is ALL. Here is the CORE of this: GOd is HOLY, we are NOT, he must punish that which is sinful, TYhat is HIS RULE, that he set up, that we cannot change. LISTEN to this fact God sent his on to take the PUNISHMENT that the wicked deserved, so no GOD does not support human sacrifice, There simply was no OTHER way to save humanity then for Jesus to die. "NO greater love than this, than he who lay down his life for another."
@PastorIblis There you go again, confusing "thinking again" with acting WRONGLY. You only prove my point. You have NO CONSIDERATION, and FAIL to see my point of view. what You believe is that YOu have ALL the answers and claim to say that there is no God as if you have irrefutable proof there ISN"T which you don't I will admit that there is no "irrefutable" proof god exists if You will about yours. you have NO evidence toprove tha He does not exist either.
@PastorIblis My main point in arguin with you on this subject Is I wanted to "test" sort of the arguments I have heard as to why Christianity is true. People have claimed that the arguemts are not defendable, You have clearly proved them wrong. But there are holes in you arguments too. That if there is no standard by which we SHOULD value life, and there is no consequence for not valuing it as we should, lifes value is simply an opinioin, w/out consequence, instead of FACT, or LAW.
I would seriously question if you are a Sociopath.
The fact that you can wiggle like a worm on a hook and refuse to see what is being said isn't giving a defense to a position it is called YOU GETTING STUPID!
You are a little ignorant shitball that has NO MORALS!
@PastorIblis You have also not answered the physical law that is seen and heard, that everying does not explain its existence in itself. It dies not prove Christianity to be correct, but it shows some lack of logic involved in saying the universe was just "here" or anotehr one was. Again this does not prove that our God exists, it proves that something started it that DOES explain its existence in itself. which is something we have NOT seen.
@PastorIblis I have been thinking about this is breat detail, And I have come to a conclusion about your arguments. You are arguing oveer somethin Christians have NO control over. We DO NOT know who is saved and who is NOT, nor do we know who GOd is LEAding hmself to! but LISTEN to this. YOu are arguing abotu what happens AFTER we die! get that? AFTER. I talking about morals NOW. think about that! You once argued tha what I believe the afterlife was a fantasy.
@PastorIblis We are NOT God! Will you please answer this! Of there IS n RULE or aboslute as to the value of human life NOW, (now, not the afterlife). humans are ALREADY dead, therefore for argument that God "values" life falls apart. God judges based on his rules, and what the people DID in their life!!! after they are dead. If there is NO "rule" as to the value if Human life, that who is to say that it IS?? LIfe is OF MAJOR VALUE. IT IS NOT AN OPINION!!!!!!!!!!!
@PastorIblis You have a major hole in your argument. You are saying that there is no objective rule as to haw valueable life is now, Do you not see that hinking that can lead someone to mass murder??? TTHIS is referring to LIFE NOW!!! NOW, NOW again, NOW. not the afterlife, which you call fantasy. So how can you criticize wwhat you believe to be a fantasy? God punishes Evil. anywhere it is! that Is why. He has a standrard fopr what is good and what is evil SIMPLY becasue he is called GOD.
@PastorIblis god is not normal people I COMPLETELY agree that normal people don't look at that the things is, you make a grave error when you suppose God is able to be compared to our standards. Even I Am a sinner, and I deserve death!, remember GOD VALUES life, but hates Evil! Evil leads to death. God loves The craetion HE MADE but he cannot break the rules he set up, that is why we call him GOD. That is WHY he sent Jesus, could I make it any more simple?
@PastorIblis By the way, the "thought crime" you criticize, Jesus was MERELY showing the fact that ALL have sinned, showing that NO ONE is not guilty of sinning/trangressing against their creator GOD, "all have sinned and ffall short of the Golry of GOd"
One of the purpose of men who claims to be atheist is because they would attract people, if there are people,then there will be debate, if there will be debate, there is money.
Life has a PURPOSE. Life is good but eternal life is better.
oxygentank00 1 month ago
Atheists aren't actually blind to the truth about God but rather willfully choose to not believe.
bammc19 2 months ago
@bammc19
As a Christian with MANY experience with atheists & past experiences as an atheist, I can tell you you're wrong. I'm Christian myself, & have seen things that will never let me fall from faith, but if you honestly believe what you talk of you've never been an atheist. I can promise you that. Just as atheists honestly believe all religious people are intentionally deluding themselves and don't really believe in God, you seem to believe they are just lying to themselves. This is false.
MMChip 1 month ago
No the Bible doesn't REQUIRE murder and genocide? Evil is separate from God but we, as humans have the choice which way we will go. Christ's blood saves the WHOLE world because we humans have blood in common. If someone CHOOSES to NOT accept, that is not the fault of God or Christ.
rrmjvand 3 months ago 3
The bible requires absolutes like murder, genocide, and says the earth is flat, with a solid dome above it. And he doesn't believe in relativism or interpretation.
I think I start to see why he did so poorly in school, with views like that.
Ryakki 5 months ago
@Ryakki whats the title of your book so i can read it
tonyteb 5 months ago
@Ryakki the bible requires murder and genocide?! that must be the 11th & 12th commandment. LOL
have u actually read the bible? Or r u just a talking parrot repeating misinformation u have read elsewhere?
nanamiyuki 4 months ago 3
@nanamiyuki Personally i dont think the bible 'requires murder and genocide' but i do know that god did condone it in the old testament. and i havent met a person who can rationalize it in defense of god without alluding to the fact that either 'it was for the greater good' or 'god has the right to do whatever he wants' which are atrocious answers.if you could be the first to give a valid justification, then please do.
GOOdGuyGreg1 3 weeks ago
Great video :)
4thcoming 6 months ago
God is amazing.
TriniArabGirl 6 months ago 14
@TheMizopa I don't care about what he's talking about, he clearly has no clue about what an atheist is.
ivanlagrossemoule 7 months ago
@ivanlagrossemoule
Then please define what you believe an atheist to be?
apathy7170 6 months ago
@apathy7170 An atheist is someone who does not believe in any god and religion. If he stated that he believed in god but not very strongly, he was not an atheist.
ivanlagrossemoule 6 months ago
i also have a 100 million dollar bill.. and it's from Zimbabwe, and i'm from Zimbabwe :)
zimsuperstar 8 months ago
Hey Ravi, when are we going to do another book?
blackhumanity103 8 months ago
So true. He is amazing.
Lohirena 8 months ago
One of my heroes!
useyourmind777 8 months ago
@pastorIblis
PastorIblis is Bahasa Indonesia or Malay for Devil Pastor. Your insulting word reflects who actually you are pak. You are not far from what bad things you say
anakpulau9 8 months ago
@PastorIblis
Dumb and outspokenly so.
v01741r31 8 months ago
@v01741r31
Clearly you are a Troll that is simply looking for attention so I am done with you!
Your posts lack any basis for your claims and are only intended as personal attacks with nothing to support them. So Troll you are done!
PastorIblis 8 months ago
@v01741r31
Hiding your channel is also Typical of a TROLL!
Cowards HIDE and chuck rocks!
No wonder you believe in invisible magical deities!
PastorIblis 8 months ago
@PastorIblis
Dumb
v01741r31 8 months ago
@PastorIblis
You can't be serious. You must be the greatest troll I've ever seen, congratulations.
v01741r31 8 months ago
@v01741r31
It is not a troll to oppose the Torture ande dehumanazation of those who do not think Just Like You!
Clearly you are confused about what a troll is and what someone that doesn't bow to a tyrantical mindset is.
Try educating yourself before flapping your gums!
PastorIblis 8 months ago
@PastorIblis
You're dumb.
v01741r31 8 months ago
Ravi Zacharias is a radio host.
festyosemtex 9 months ago
Richard Dawkins is a hallucination.
bubbachumphrey23 9 months ago 6
As the Great Richard Dawkins says "the human mind is very susceptable to hallucination". Religion and God are both hallucinations
MrKGatl 9 months ago
@MrKGatl prove it, you scientist.
dajusta87 9 months ago
@MrKGatl.... If the mind cant be trusted, How seriously should we take you statement?
moair 8 months ago
@moair You dont have to take me seriously. There is no law against believing in fairy tales. Atleast not in America, where most of the country believes in them. One day, religions will be taught as nothing more than mythology
MrKGatl 8 months ago
@MrKGatl My point is you have discredited faith on the basis of the susceptibility of the mind. Which begs the question can your statement be trusted. I assume it is with the use of YOUR mind that you formulated this opinion?
moair 8 months ago
@moair
very good comment
You make a good point that MrKgati puts perfect faith in what his mind believes and attacks anyone who does not share his world view. How can he be sure His opinion is correct? Reason can only take anyone so far and then there is the leap of faith. I have reasoned that the evidence for Jesus is strong enough to take the leap of faith and believe in Jesus. The atheist take the leap of faith and rejects God. We are both men of faith but MrKGati will deny this truth
SuperTruthlover 8 months ago
@moair I quoted a fact that Professor Dawkins said, then I made an opinion of my own. Faith is irrational, another opinion of mine that is shared by others.
MrKGatl 8 months ago
@MrKGatl Okay..I assumed you quoted Mr Dawkins because you believed his statement...I would have to disagree with you as well. To suggest science holds the answer to how something came from nothing, absent any scientific evidence to substantiate such a theory is indeed faith. On the contrary Christians faith is based on the evidence of creation, the reality of absolute morality, Through historical documents, and through experience.
moair 8 months ago
@moair The problem with your statement is they do have scientific evidence of how the universe began. I dont have faith in science, because faith is the absense of evidence, I believe science for its evidence and theories. There is no evidence of creation, therefor your faith is irrational. Historical documents? Morality? So you think christians are the only ones who have morality? Like the morality of the bible, giving your daughter up as whores and owning slaves? Both are in the bible
MrKGatl 8 months ago
@MrKGatl What is the scientific evidence that provides for something appearing from nothing? To say well give me energy first and then ill explain, or give me molecules or protein first, or a black hole...all of these as im sure you are aware dont testify to where they originated..To say science has the answer, without the scientific evidence, is unscientific. Next if morality is a matter of opinion to you i.e no absolute right or wrong... On what bases does your scrutiny of the bible stand?
moair 8 months ago
@MrKGatl You see if there is an absolute law of what is good,and evil...There is an absolute law giver..God. If there is not absolute good and evil..i.e raping an infant would not be wrong only a matter of preference, or opinion than your scrutiny of the bible as immoral falls apart...
moair 8 months ago
@moair Where do you get absolute law? Thats rediculous. The bible is filled with evil deeds done by people and god a like. Have you actually read the bible, the judeo christian god is terrible. Who would want to follow that god anyways. I dont need some fairy tales to tell me that raping is wrong. I dont need a babysitter to be good. Just the way the bible was constructed by Constantine should make it questionable enough. The god from the bible is imperfect and evil
MrKGatl 8 months ago
@MrKGatl On what bases do you make a distinction from good an evil? Outside of an ultimate authority there is no good or evil,only personal opinion which implodes your whole argument. Moral claims are absolute, they dont change based on personal opinion. So you can rightly say rape is wrong regardless of the next mans opinion. Not because your opinion magically holds more authority than the next mans, but because there is a ultimate entity by whom laws transcends both men.
moair 8 months ago
@MrKGatl I don't address some of your specific issues like the claim the bible and God is evil because for now those indictments are irrelevant. You would have to admit in your opinion there is no truth which means rape is neither right nor wrong. Or that somehow your opinion on the matter should hold more weight than a dissenting mans opinion, and the question would be why. Or admit that we live in a moral universe. Governed by moral laws,given by the moral law giver. God.
moair 8 months ago
@moair Religions do not have a monopoly on morality. Thats not just rediculous, but arrogant as well. People had morals before religion and they will have morals when religions like christianity, judaism, and islam are taught as mythology. Yes there was truth when I said the god of the bible is evil. Rape is wrong and I dont need fairy tales to tell me that. Yeah god has great morals, like endorsing slavery, giving up your daughter as a whore, killing the first born when he get upset, etc...
MrKGatl 8 months ago
@MrKGatl Its rather hard to make this point to you..To make the claim that every man is his own God and therefore illustrates morality for himself means there's no truth in morality. So you who are your own God and the next man who is his own can have conflicting moral outlooks, and be equally right.This eradicates truth. So on what bases do you condemn rape, is your statement true? Or is it made equally false with a dissenting view? Morality isn't an opinion its a truth given to us by God.
moair 8 months ago
@MrKGatl And again,I would love to clear up your skewed understanding of the bible,but If I allow you to launch attacks on a ground of nonlogic in your premise we get no where. On one hand you say God is evil, and on the other hand your world view says that statement is as true as it is false. If you make the claim that your morality is true and therefore all conflicting moralities are false, you must explain why your opinion is supreme. You speak of arrogance. Whats more arrogant than that
moair 8 months ago
@moair How am I arrogant when I say that the god from the bible is evil. There are many, many pieces of evidence that would support me. There is nothing illogical about those statements. I dont have a skewed understanding of the bible. If you read the bible, you would read about all of the terrible things that god has done. You're reading the bible with your mind already made up, which means that you will manipulate the bible to mean what you think it should.
MrKGatl 8 months ago
@MrKGatl To suggest that your morality is supreme over all those moralities that contradict it is arrogant...What makes you the supreme authority on what is good and evil?And If you don't believe this than your claims of evil is merely an opinion, cant be considered truth, and therefore meaningless. Youv'e either made morality a question of individual taste in which case everything is permitted, decided YOU are the supreme definer of morality, or recognize God as our moral law giver.
moair 8 months ago
@moair When did I say that my morality was supreme? I also never claimed to be a supreme authority on good and evil. You're getting pretty defensive there. I might as well believe in bigfoot or santa as my supreme moral law giver, since I believe in them as much as I believe in god. Your entire comment is pretty rediculous. I can be good without god. I dont need some imaginary babysitter guilting me into doing whats right or i'll be punished. Humans should be better than that.
MrKGatl 8 months ago
@MrKGatl Okay were getting somewhere now. Then your morality is opinion. So you say in your opinion rape is wrong. I say in my opinion rape is good. Both opinions given equal weight because neither persons opinion is supreme like you said. Here's the problem. Both can't be true. The very definition of truth means that all those things that contradict it must be false. So how can it be the truth that rape is evil, and simultaneously good?
moair 8 months ago
@MrKGatl Its funny you would say humans should better than that. Being better assumes purpose, it assumes intrinsic value..How does molecules and clay have purpose and intrinsic value?
moair 8 months ago
@moair purpose is an immaterial question. Its like talking of nothings. do you need purpose to have morality? i dont think so. Molecules and clay have no purpose, thats another rediculous question.
MrKGatl 8 months ago
@MrKGatl If you dont have purpose why should you be moral is a better question. But i rather not debate that now..I see u skipped the hard part..How do you deal with the issue of truth in your world view? How can things be evil and simultaneously good as I illustrated in my earlier thoughts?
moair 8 months ago
@moair Its funny you say that..Molecules and clay have no purpose, no intrinsic value..But in your would view, were just that, molecules and clay..A combination of time plus matter, plus chance.
moair 8 months ago
@moair You havent demonstrated anything with your earlier thoughts. What do you mean the issue of truth in my world? Morality and humanity both have evolved along with our intellect and brain capacity. I dont skip things, I only ignore some of your more idiotic questions. Please tell me where you get your morals from? And I have no idea what your talking about things being good and evil simultaneously, your thoughts are not very clear.
MrKGatl 8 months ago
@MrKGatl .Ahh so I cant pin anything down as being good or evil because it evolves..Only that again implodes your argument that God is evil. Those deeds He did wernt evil, there simply evolving. Lets forget for a moment at the same time you say good and bad is evolving, you say there is no good and bad because its all a matter of personal opinion.
moair 8 months ago
@MrKGatl If truth is eradicated because 2 opposing opinions given the same weight can make something both true, and false.. If morality evolves all without a point of reference because we can never settle on what is truly good and truly evil so therefore have no perception if we evolve for the good or for the bad, then it can be truly said that there is no other hope for mankind to have Truth than trough God that transcends the individual.
moair 8 months ago
@moair The problem with your comment, is that you believe there is a god that transends everything else and gives us good and evil. Well I believe there is most certainly not any god or gods, so we as humans need to start solving the questions ourselves. There is no reason that people and civilizations cant exist with their own laws and morality. We dont need any fairy tales to settle on what is truly good and evil, you dont need a reference point. Its like asking where happiness comes from
MrKGatl 8 months ago
@MrKGatl You say theres no reason we cant make our own laws and morality as a civilization. But why should one submit to another interpretation of morality? You suggest because the ultimate good is what is moral. But one may disagree..Maybe my personal good is whats moral. The problem you face time and again is that you want to live with moral absolutes...Pedophilia is wrong. But your world view suggest there is nothing absolute about morality.
moair 8 months ago
@MrKGatl The greatest Atheistic minds Dawkins, Burton Russel, Kyle Neilson have admitted to a irrefutable logic. Naturalism cannot support the idea of morality, it is simply logically inconsistent. Your a man driven by logic? Answer this for me. Is a man that brutalizes a infant morally wrong if he is of the believe it is perfectly permittable and moral?
moair 8 months ago
@moair You pose excellent questions that humanity is always facing. I have many of the same questions that you do, however, I do not answer any other those questions with god. We can get our morality collectively as a group. Sweden is one of the most atheistic countries and look at how peaceful they are. I know its only one example, but morality does not require religion. Evolutionarily we learned to take care of each other as well as to care for one another of our own species
MrKGatl 8 months ago
@MrKGatl When your logic conflicts with your heart. When you KNOW that if a woman has been raped,this is a violation of what is right, and good, and sacred, but your world view tells you that feeling cannot logically be true, debate breaks down. We have to search ourselves both believers and non believers to see if we are truly seeking the truth. Or in the face of that truth do we turn away, and dig our heels deeper into an idea that can no longer justify itself.
moair 8 months ago
@moair My logic doesnt conflict with my heart. Im getting tired of you telling me that my logic makes bad things ok. Atheists are very moral people, we just do it without god or religion. Is there anything better than being good just because its who we are and what we strive for. You submit to an imaginary force that has zero evidence, why not just make ourselves better and leave out the superstition. Pedophilia? what are you talking about?
MrKGatl 8 months ago
@MrKGatl .Is rape wrong or not and why? Your being good because of you? What is good and how do you distinguish it from evil? Throw away this comment about Atheist cant behave be morally. I never made that argument and I don't believe it. But tells me how a Atheist can tell a rapist he is immoral?
moair 8 months ago
@moair Of course rape is wrong and rapists are immoral. Rape violates ones freedom. I think it is immoral to violate someones freedom in that way. I understand the reason we need to question these things, but I think we can do it better by leaving god and religion out.
MrKGatl 7 months ago
@MrKGatl Who says violating ones freedom is immoral? You know its fascinating to read what Burton Russell said a leading Atheistic mind of today. He said he cannot logically live consistent with his world view that morality is merely a personal preference. It is his understanding that to protect his child is moral, it's anothers understanding that brutalizing his child is moral. THERE MUST BE TRUTH!!!!! Your world view sir denies you that which is true.
moair 7 months ago
@MrKGat I assume when you say rape is wrong, your not only talking about for yourself, but for those who disagree with you as well. How do you defend this outlook?
moair 7 months ago
@moair Why do I need to defend the point that rape is wrong? Its a violation of personal freedoms
MrKGatl 7 months ago
@MrKGatl SMH! To first defend why rape is wrong, you must defend why when another believes rape is good and the violation of personal freedoms is good, your statement is still true. You base your life,and your eternity on logic. You pose this as the reason you don't believe in God, why are you now running from the logical conclusion of your world view?
moair 7 months ago
@moair No matter what circles you try to run, fairy tales are not the answer. You can talk all you want about what is and isnt moral, but in the end its up to us to lay out what is and isnt acceptable within our societies. This is not why I do not believe in god. I do not believe in god, because I see zero evidence for god and zero need for religion. I understand that religion has done some good for mankind, but as we get smarter and our intellect grows we have less need for superstition.
MrKGatl 7 months ago
@MrKGatl It's funny you speak of circles when you still haven't answered the question. I don't believe in fairy tales seems to be your default answer in the face of dismantling questions about your faith. You say you don't see any evidence of God as if evidence were your point of reference. Bible says its not a matter of lack of evidence,its a matter of people suppressing the truth. The decision that this fundamental question doesn't have to be answered is evidence of that. Hope you reconsider.
moair 7 months ago
@moair You're like a child asking why after everything I say. I dont have faith. Faith is irrational to me, it makes no sense to believe in something with no evidence. It just seems against common sense. The bible is what is suppressing the truth. Holding tight to antiquated mythology.
MrKGatl 7 months ago
@MrKGatl Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.
strategicatch 7 months ago
@MrKGatl It is a violation of the moral law that our creator has given us. Thats why rape is wrong from the perspective of a theist. So you cant answer the why. Theism can.. How about answer the how. What scientific evidence do you have of how physical matter came into existence? Protein, Molecules, Energy how did they come to be? You see void of this scientific evidence, your belief in science as the creator is merely faith in what you cannot substantiate. Science doesn't create..It explains.
moair 7 months ago
@moair The bible condones and approves of rape, so that is a pretty terrible arguement. I never said that science created anything. But science is how we understand things, not throught superstition and the supernatural. My belief in science has nothing to do with faith, as i said before, faith is belief without a reason to believe, its absurd. So, I do not have faith in science or anything else. There is absolutely zero evidence of a divine creator, Santa has more evidence.
MrKGatl 7 months ago
@MrKGatl Book, Chapter, and Verse on the Bible condones rape part. Your painting yourself into a pretty narrow corner here..We agree science merely explains. But you are quite wrong, whatever you believe is the cause, or has the answer to the cause of our existence without evidence substantiating it, would merely result in your faith in that medium.
moair 7 months ago
@MrKGatl I hope you understand that it is incumbent on me to answer these contradictions you pose about rape in the bible..These questions cannot not go unanswered from a logical view point or my whole world view implodes. Similarly after you provide book, chapter, and verse, which you cannot, It is of the same importance that you address the contradictions of your faith or it similarly implodes.
moair 7 months ago
@moair a few examples of rape in the bible: Judges 21:10-24 NLT, Numbers 31:7-18, Deuteronomy 20:10-14,Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Im tired of you infering that i have faith, you know what I think of faith. Im not trying to say that christianity is all bad and has no redeming qualities. Im just trying to show you that the judeo christian god, when looking at the entire bible, is not always an admirable figure. The god of the bible is not a perfect god, and who would want an imperfect god?
MrKGatl 7 months ago
@MrKGatl Throughout the bible there are accounts of events that took place,both events that were consistent with who God was, and ones that wern't. Those verses don't suggest a contradiction on God's position on rape. So in the context of saying the bible is contradictory as is the world view of Atheism, simply untrue. Im aware you dont like the notion that I refer to ur faith, so give me evidence of how physical matter came to be and the statement would no longer be true.
moair 7 months ago
@MrKGatl If i were to take the argument from your stand point. God has done something that i consider immoral,but oh yea,I have no bases by which to make that distinction..Okay Well I will grant that there is a God so that on that bases I can claim He has done something immoral. Only God is the author of the very morality we wishto condemn Him with. A morality that our finite minds dont even FULLY grasp. So can the creator of all rid of a village for His purposes,using His creation morally? Yes
moair 7 months ago
@MrKGatl If God is no less moral for deciding a boulder will end a mans life,He is no less moral for using His creation to accomplish the same purpose.The bible also documents we were living under a Theocracy then, and when the theocracy ended due to the sins of the people,and so no more people killing in Gods name. We have evidence it is in Gods nature to take lives for His divine purpose. Thru your example, thru the tsunami that just took lives in Japan. No evidence that rape is His nature.
moair 7 months ago
@MrKGatl For the record how the Christian world view deals with the question humanity faces is to first look at not the wrong doings of the world first, but the sin within our own hearts. Recognize in humility that we ourselves are in violation of the very evils we see in this world. We invest our trust in Christ, who came down,lived a sinless life, took our sins upon Himself, died for those sins so we might be reconciled with that moral law giver we call God. Thanks for a hearing...God bless.
moair 8 months ago
@moair. You want to have a debate on if God is evil or not, but you have no frame of reference by which to make a distinction between the evil and good. Your world view boils down to the individual, and there opinion. Its like debating if apples taste good or not. I can say rape is wrong because for me its not an opinion, it is a God given truth. A truth that transcends the individual and there opinion. How can you make the same claim and it not be merely an opinion?
moair 8 months ago
this was informative & helpful discussion;.I think it may also prove helpful to some of the viewers here to try to evaluate many of the more strident claims of the anti-theist critique ("brights") from a ideological/ metaphysics perspective. Check out the recent article by Jackson Lears in the May 16, 2011 issue of the The Nation entitled "Same Old New Atheism" .The article offers a compelling analysis of Sam Harris' works. Consideration is given to general atheistic social perspectives
shieldsff 9 months ago
He is into making money...I wish u all christian gathered a debate with Dr. Zakir Naik vs Ravi Zacharias. I would love to watch the debate. Hope one day we can see this. Peace
seekknowledge2010 9 months ago
“If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you do have to believe that the main point in all religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake.” CS Lewis, Mere Christianity
agrema 10 months ago
God is a God that is loving,just and Holy...No christian rejoices in the thought of anyone going to hell...God does not send people to hell,people send themselves because of sin and rebellion.Jesus came that none would have to go to hell...he paid the price for our sin.. if we would only turn from sin and believe..seek the truth for yourself.
sonwalker365 10 months ago
@PastorIblis Gods defintion of LOVE is shown and I have posted this many times. is this Jesus who WAS GOD, said There is NO greater LOVE than this, than he who lay down his life for another" Jesus was pointing to HOW he would DIE and save! the GREATEST form of love is that! and if people did not need saving Jesus would not need to come die, to SHOW the GREATEST definition of love.
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
What is it to want to ENDLESSLY TORTURE someone simply because they THINK DIFFERENTLY?
Is that Loving Too?
You are Simply an EVIL child that doesn't value Others!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis SO, You do agree that Dying for someone IS the greatesr form of love! You did not argue against that fact. You are repeating argument. I, no way will say that Christians desire people to to hell. People do that themselves. You also I think are making a drastic assumption that "believing" = "thinking differently" IS it not true that WHAT you believe WILL effect how you think?? how you act? Thinking differently and believing something are 2 entirely different things.
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
You Dumbass child.
The thoughts a person has form the basis of what they believe and do!
You can't Believe something and Not Think it! How moronic are you?
As for this dying for someone else idea. Vicarious redemption is childish and immature not what someone that takes personal responcibility looks for! Your Dying for someone bullshit has nothing to do with if as a soldier I would takke a bullet to protect another in my unit.
You only mean someone paying for what you do!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@willph18
But you live for an Us Vs Them mindset!
You are rooted in Division!
Your God is a man made religious system!
The Universe doesn't give a damn what thoughts I have! The Universe doesn't demand a Blood Sacrifice!
The Universe doesn't care about someone's Sex life or Religious views!
The Simply is NO GOD!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis I have never been to hell, nor to heaven and come back. Nor have I been dead or come back, Only ONE person has and that is Jesus, WHo is my LORD. HE said hell exists. When you say "love does not torture those for thinking differently" YOU MUST distinguish from doing wrong and thinking differently. We are not sinners becaseu we "think differently: from God. we are sinners because we have DONE WRONG. YOu also WORK FROM YOUR defintion of LOVE God's.
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
Prove your claim that this Jesus died and came back.
Show Evidence to support this claim!
All you have is Church Dogma! no real Evidence to support Your Claims!
You Support TORTURE of someone Just because they THINK DIFFERENTLY!
You are an EVIL fucking Terd!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
love the hypocrites lolz this video is meant to be a witness, pleas do the same
supernintendonerd64 10 months ago
Why don't you clowns clean your sewer mouths and start talking like calm adults?
blujazz10000 10 months ago
The Catholic Crurch was started in 325 AD-not the Christian religion. There is a vast difference. Although a Catholic could possibly be a Christian, the two words are not synonymous. With that said, your info about them siding with Hitler is true-good point. Ravi always says,"don't judge an organization by its abusers." The Catholic Church has definitely abused it's power and hid behind the name of Christianity over the years.
rogereek 10 months ago
Hitler was a Christian? Are you that stupid? I bet you think Bill Clinton is a Christian too. It's called propaganda. You think you know so much but you don't really know anything. You are talking out of your field. If you want to talk Carpentry-at least learn a little about it before you try telling a carpenter what he is doing wrong. That way you won't come off looking like a complete retard.
rogereek 10 months ago
@rogereek
Not only was Hitler a Christian but the Catholic Church Helped Nazi's escape Germany after World War 2!
It was called the Vatican RAT LINE!
The Christian religion began in 325 AD Constintine order the councel of Necia to form the caynon. That was when Jesus Christ was invented. Prior to that it was a man named Apollonius of Tyana.
The myth of Hell was invented by the Roman Catholic Church as a means to scare people into belief.
Christianity is Rooted in EVIL!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
Boy for an Athiest you sure spend a lot of time on Christian sites. And your an angry one too. For such a good person, you sure do swear alot. How ignorant.
rogereek 10 months ago
Concerning the OT law being "imperfect," remember that Jesus said, "It was for the hardness of your heart that God allowed ..." So, we see that the ways of God are perfect, even when instituting an "imperfect" law. Please note that the word "imperfect" is in quotes, because the law is made perfect through the cross. In the same way, even the most "pious" of Christians fall way short of the God's righteous. Yet, we are made righteous through faith.
shilohrenovation 10 months ago
@shilohrenovation Ah, if that is what you mean I agree with that, yes, the previous OT laws were a foreshadoing of teh perfect things to come, the action of Jesus that would REALLY satisfy what the old testament cermonies did not accomplish
willph18 10 months ago
STARVATION: Mother Theresa said there is poverty because you and I do not share. Jesus fed the hungry. How are you doing in this department? Enjoying luxuries while kids starve, then stridently publicly strut your own morality? I mean this in all respect. On the day you stand before God, it will be you, not the Almighty, who will be guilty of wrong doing. I hope you will get right with God!
shilohrenovation 10 months ago
@shilohrenovation
There are many problems with Mother Theresa and her obsession with suffering.
First thing to note is her name is Not Theresa!
It was Anges Gonxha Bojaxhui. Where EXACTLY did the name Mother Theresa come from???
As far as her helpping people. Now that is Funny.
According to a Former Nun that worked beside her Mother Theresa created a CULT OF SUFFERING!
She was Obsessed with seeing people SUFFER!
SUFFER FOR JESUS!
PROOF!
watch?v=LS_9QyIzZd8
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis I do not approve of burning people! it helps to think of hell as eternal SEPARATION from God, as it is defined in the Bible. That's all it is, becasue God can have no sin in his presence, I noticed that WHENEVER I pointed out an atheist who was a mass murderer, you sim ply call him "mad" . PLEASE please try and think of the people who murdered in the name of christianity as MAD also, they completely missed the MAIN message of that BIBLE, that JESUS SAVES.
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
Show CHAPTER AND VERSE where you get this idea of Seperation from?
If this God exists and is Everywhere as Christian's claim then it is a Contradiction and fucking impossible for anyone to be seperate from something that is everywhere.
However If you think Atheists are seperate from this God now well why should we care about an afterlife since it doesn't phase us now to not have this God notion!
It is YOU that wants this God to exist not the Atheist!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
Both my parent are (secular) psychologists. My brother came over to my house with my teenage kids who love and obey, and with the love, peace, and joy of our home. He turned to my mother and asked, "Why didn't we have it like this when we were kids?" My answer? "It's Jesus!"
shilohrenovation 10 months ago
@shilohrenovation
I know Satanists that can say the same thing!
There are Muslims that could say the same thing!
There are Buddhists that can say the Same thing!
It isn't a Jesus any more then it is a Satan or a Muhamad or a Buddha.
With me and my girlfriend we have love and peace and joy with lots of laughter and fun and NO JESUS!
We are both Atheists and we are both very happy with a wonderful life!
It doesn't take religion to be happy and have love!
That is just STUPID!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
(Continued): BAD THINGS: If we have lied, we are liars; stolen? thieves. Because, unlike us, God is good, liars and thieves will not be in heaven - unless they are made new, born again, through the atoning work of Christ on the cross. GLORY! I hope to see you there! THINKING "LIKE ME:" It is more than thought. It is a friendship with Jesus Christ. He is my best friend. If you know and love Christ now, you will into eternity. Otherwise, you will be judged as a lying thief. God is good!
shilohrenovation 10 months ago
@shilohrenovation
So a pedophile molests 50 children then accepts JESUS and MAGICALLY everything he did is wiped away!
While those children due to the emotional scars of the abuse they went through reject any notion of a God since No God did a damn thing to help them when they needed it.
So You would have a Serial Pedophile in Heaven and the victims Tortured endlessly!
So those children are victims TWICE!
once by the asshole and again by your God!
FUCK YOUR GOD!
That's SICK!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
Thanks for your thoughts. In 500 words or less, I will try my best to answer. Concerning the values of: LIFE-it is the Christian who opposed Obama's "let the 'live' abortion die" bill. TORTURE: On earth, people torment people. In hell, it will be infinitely worse. You cannot blame God! People can accept God's law or be a victim of their own! WITCH HUNTS: Jesus said to love our enemies, not burn them. THOUGHT CRIME: All evil starts in the brain. Personally, I love the work of Christ in my heart!
shilohrenovation 10 months ago
@shilohrenovation
You do NOT have the right to demand I THINK as you say!
That is classic Tyrany! Ever heard of 1984! What is termed an Orwellian State!
THAT IS YOUR HEAVEN!
That Love your Enemy was clearly not practiced for the near 1,000 YEARS Christian's TORTURED and MURDERED people in the name of your God!
Where was the LOVE OF JESUS then?
After I am dead I can't be tortured since I AM DEAD!
No central nervous system no Pain!
Abortion is about freedom of CHOICE!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@shilohrenovation
Christ is a title not the name of the man that lived.
It is like the word Buddha it doesn't refer to a specific historical person but a title given to someone.
PastorIblis 10 months ago
Comment removed
willph18 10 months ago
That woman scares me....but go Ravi.
ohgidgetz 10 months ago
@willph18
You keep going back to life having no value simply because we Do NOT go by the brutal shit of the bible!
I am fucking sorry offering to hand ones daughters over for a GANG RAPE is NOT MORTAL dispite what your bible says!
Human Sacrifice is NOT MORAL!
Dispite what your bible says!
THOUGHT CRIME IS NOT MORAL!
DISPITE WHAT YOUR JESUS SAID!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis Listen did you not hear me? I said ALL religion aside! this is not about Christianity anymore God created the morals. jesus was referring to the fact that no one was innocent. I have alread tried to address this, but you have been ignorant. What sounds better. "I can't kill somenody becasue IT IS wrong, A RULE that defines tha life is valuable! or saying "I won;t kill somebody becasue I "think" it is wrong. a simple "opinion" that lifeis valueable has NO bearing.
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
Why don't you explain what is Lesson behind endless torture is?
What the Purpose of it is?
What does it change?
Then perhaps you could explain why you think this is Praise worthy behavior.
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis It is not up to me to challenge God;s authority. We have all broken his laws. If God had just left us all to die you would have a point. But your argument collapses when I get to Jesus. God provided a WAY. (remember a WAY) not a "right way to think" he just said believe. I praise God for Jesus, it already happened. Remember what I said before? "there is no greater love than this than he who lay down his life for another?" It is THIS love that I praise.
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
You are not answering the Question.
You instead what to avoid the question.
You Praise behavior that is Worse then what we saw from Hitler!
You refuse to answer simple questions about what does it Prove, What does it Change, What Purpose does it serve.
This comes down to basic humanity.
The only way you can disregard what happens to others is through Devaluing them to where they are not a person!
Your Religion teaches devaluing as part of the Core doctrine!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis It just comes down to putting God in trial. But tha reality is, that God is Just. SO the killing we see happen her is Unjust. that is the difference. LIsten to this. God LOVE his creation! God loves the peopl he created. but he also has rulesC. S. lewis once said "There are people who say "God's will be done" and people who say "my will be done" and God seconds the motion." We choose. I have tried to argue this before, God is giving us a CHANCE to change right now!
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
Just answer the god damn question
WHAT DOES TORTURE PROVE?
WHAT DOES TORTURE CHANGE?
WHAT PURPOSE DOES TORTURE SERVE?
Don't dance around it Fucking answer it!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@willph18
You do Not grasp the difference between Discipline and Abuse!
Until you do you are a danger to society!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis I do grasp that Like I said, I was not USING that to refer to God, I was using that to show that the parent punishes them for doing something bad,, becasue they are TEACHING , trainingthem what is right and what is wrong. I child does not just "sit there" and wait for the parent ot teach them, they do things like write on walls, throw temper tantrums, break things, to get their parents attention, they know it wil get their attention becaus they know they donlt like it.
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
Tell me what EXACTLY is taught by burning someone in fire?
What is the LESSON in that?
What EXACTLY is that to Change?
What EXACTLY is that to Prove?
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@willph18
Clearly you do Not understand Child development and as such you do not understand behaviors that are Normal and can even be expected to occur.
Just because a child throws a fit doesn't mean you give the child what they want.
All that would teach them is if i pitch enough of a bitch I get what I want!
That doesn't teach them Discipline or control but only I WANT IT SO GIVE IT TO ME!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis Of course it is You have not disproved what I said At all. It is EXPECTED to occur. I believe that too. I am NOT saying that we give children what they want! I am saying that WHY do children only want what they want in the FIRST place. It IS to be expected. You are correct but you give NO rationale as to WY it is that way. WHy children HATE being obedient at first. and have to be trained into doing it
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
It isn't that they hate being obedient it is called the child will try and test the limits of what they can do.
Just like if you have a dog or cat they will push the limits of what they can do just to see if the limit changes.
If they realize that they can get further by acting in one manner then they will do it.
This is called Natural behavior.
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis Testing the limits? You see that you have proven my argument. you call it "natural behavior" So do I. why do we test the limits of authority? animals are different, they first have animal parents which are different than their owners, so when someone adopts a pet, it quickly learns that the owner is in authority, the animal was also brought up with differenet rules. but in children this process takes YEARS to adopt, after birth! the issues is, why do Children, naturally do that?
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
The reason it takes years as opposed to weeks or months with animals is the human brains is more developed and humans develop slower then other animals.
The closest to humans is Monkeys and we can observe simular type behaviors in young monkeys.
You simply do not understand the natural process of growth.
During the Teenage years a Teen is trying to figure out who they are as their body changes into an adult.
This means they have to streach their wings so to speak!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis yes we can see similar types I said it was a natural process . Here this: Life is devalues when there is no specific law to state its value. This is aside from all religion. Perhaps you have shown me that saying "people sin naturally" is not the best argument for God. I alwasy wondered how people defend that, and you have shown me. I do understand the natural process, it is natural to not want authoritty. we hat is best for us. similar behavior does not facilitate same casue though.
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
Life is NOT devlued by anything other then Someone that Wants to find an easy way to Hurt those Different from Themself!
Atheists Don't advocate torture because we Value life!
It is Religion that makes it Easy to hate, torture and kill those who do not think as you do!
It has Nothing to do with the moral laws.
in fact one like you that can easily devalue others will not have the same moral center as most.
Hence the reason you are a danger to society!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@willph18
Haven't you noticed You talk of life having no Value over and over and You profess to be the Christian.
While I Strongly oppose the idea that life has no value stating that All life is valuable not just those who agree with me! And I am An Atheist!
Who has the greater moral center in this conversation?
Do you seriously think it is the one saying life has no value?
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis I am not sayin glife has no value, I am saying that there are consequences to actions, that is all. I know it seems like a harsh consequence, but we are not God. But the bible tells us that Until the gospel has been preached all over the world the kingdom of God has not come, meaning that everyone is given clear evidence of a creator. in creation. by its desogn and everything's purpose. There is a differnence from life having value and having consequences for actions
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
Fucker just tell me.
WHAT DOES TORTURE TEACH?
WHAT DOES TORTURE PROVE?
WHAT DOES TORTURE CHANGE?
Why don't you just FUCKING ANSWER THE QUESTION!
You IMMORAL SHITBALL!
JUST FUCKING SAY IT!
I know you have NO MORALS I just want to see what value you place on TORTURE
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis people "agreeing" depends on what they agree upon. DOn;t you think it is important that we agree that life has value, Yes, i believe that too. there needs to be a dividing line between what is important and not important. It comes back to that quote again, from that madman, "What is there to atone for if there is no wrong in killing people" Unless there is a consequence for it, that the rules implies, than there really is no motivation for saying it really is wrong.
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
The God defense is where the superstitious go to when they have nothing and don't want to really look for an answer!
This is why Religion fights against science.
Science is willing to learn and grow which means admitting we may have had things wrong.
But Religion refuses to have the humility to do this!
You fuckers want to say YOU ARE ALWAYS RIGHT!
YOU ARE NEVER WRONG!
Which is clearly NOT TRUE!
You IGNORE what doesn't suit you or TWIST it to fit your Agenda!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis I NEVR said I was never wrong, the PROBLEM with your argument is that you DON:T have a category FOr right and wrong, nor do you have a COnsequence for doing something wrong. God is JUST JUST JUST JUST, again JUSTICE. that is what Christians believe, that what God does in RIGHt simply becasue he is God, and he Is the CREATOR. Buthe LOVES his creation, THAT IS WHY JESUS CAME!
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
The fact that you have No Morals you have made very very clear.
Clearly from this you consider Human Sacrifice to be Just!
You must think telling a woman she must marry her Rapest is just!
As well as Offering ones daughters over for a Gang Rape is just!
As well as Genocide is Just.
And let's not forget Thought Crime you think is Just!
Just go live in North Korea!
You would call it Heaven!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis I have agreed with you whole rant on the bvalue of of life I completely agree that life is of value! but here is the difference. You and I are talking about two different times, I am referring to NOW, you are referrring to afterlife, as if it was just as similar to now. CLearly, you know it is not, humans are not "sacrificed" as you say, becasue we DIE in the grave! see the point at all? Humans are already dead. THe punishent I am talking about is evil being dealt with.
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
Yet you flat out REFUSE to answer my questions!
And You repeated say Life has No value!
You repeate it OVER AND OVER AND OVER!
Which shows me YOU DO NOT VALUE LIFE!
At least Not the life of an Atheist!
We are NOT already Dead you stupid FUCK!
I am Quite alive YOU MORON!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis You seriously misinterpreted what I was saying. I was saying that What you argue about What God does pertains to AFTER they die!, in the afterlife, is that clear? I value your life! I value it again I will say it! I f I did not, It would not still be commenting. God values life ! He created it! JUST as a builder builds a building but he DOES NOT TEAR IT DOWN. God created life for his glory. PLEASE be more specific if you arguements EXACLTY how am I saying i "devalue" life
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
no dumbass I saw EXACTLY what you said!
You repeatedly Stress LIFE HAS NO VALUE!
YOU EXCUSE TORTURE even though a Universalist DOESN'T BELIEVE IN A HELL!
So YOU are NOT a Universalist!
A Universalist believes All will be forgiven in the end!
YOU DO NOT!
YOU DO NOT VALUE THOSE WHO DO NOT THINK LIKE YOU!
YOU ARE A LITTLE HITLER!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
Comment removed
willph18 10 months ago
@PastorIblis I consider punishing evil to be Just, that is ALL. Here is the CORE of this: GOd is HOLY, we are NOT, he must punish that which is sinful, TYhat is HIS RULE, that he set up, that we cannot change. LISTEN to this fact God sent his on to take the PUNISHMENT that the wicked deserved, so no GOD does not support human sacrifice, There simply was no OTHER way to save humanity then for Jesus to die. "NO greater love than this, than he who lay down his life for another."
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
Is it EVIL to not Think as a dictator demands?
IS IT EVIL TO HAVE FREEWILL?
IS IT EVIL TO NOT ACCEPT YOUR BULLSHIT WHICH YOU CAN OFFER NO FUCKING EVIDENCE TO PROVE?
IS THAT EVIL YOU STUPID FUCKING ASSHOLE?
OR IS ADVOCATING THE TORTURE OF THOSE NOT JUST LIKE YOU EVIL?
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis There you go again, confusing "thinking again" with acting WRONGLY. You only prove my point. You have NO CONSIDERATION, and FAIL to see my point of view. what You believe is that YOu have ALL the answers and claim to say that there is no God as if you have irrefutable proof there ISN"T which you don't I will admit that there is no "irrefutable" proof god exists if You will about yours. you have NO evidence toprove tha He does not exist either.
willph18 10 months ago
@PastorIblis My main point in arguin with you on this subject Is I wanted to "test" sort of the arguments I have heard as to why Christianity is true. People have claimed that the arguemts are not defendable, You have clearly proved them wrong. But there are holes in you arguments too. That if there is no standard by which we SHOULD value life, and there is no consequence for not valuing it as we should, lifes value is simply an opinioin, w/out consequence, instead of FACT, or LAW.
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
There you go yet AGAIN!
You keep saying Life has no value!
This Proves YOU HAVE NO MORALS!
I would seriously question if you are a Sociopath.
The fact that you can wiggle like a worm on a hook and refuse to see what is being said isn't giving a defense to a position it is called YOU GETTING STUPID!
You are a little ignorant shitball that has NO MORALS!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis You have also not answered the physical law that is seen and heard, that everying does not explain its existence in itself. It dies not prove Christianity to be correct, but it shows some lack of logic involved in saying the universe was just "here" or anotehr one was. Again this does not prove that our God exists, it proves that something started it that DOES explain its existence in itself. which is something we have NOT seen.
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
you only want to hear the God wins by default defense and that is showing how retarded you are!
The god wins by default is NOT an answer but an abvoidance of the question!
There is nothing wrong with saying we don't currently have all the answers.
Our not knowing Doesn't mean God wins by default!
Because once you say God did it YOU STOP LOOKING!
You don't want another answer because any answer could only take you away from the position you are obsessed with!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@willph18
I find it funny how You want to do ANYTHING you can to Avoid my questions.
YOU want to ask me stupid shit that i have already addressed because YOU ARE AFRAID to answer simple questions!
YOU LIVE IN FEAR!
I don't!
I can answer those three questions very easy.
I am waiting to hear YOUR answer!
I KNOW YOU HAVE NO MORALS!
YOU DO NOT VALUE LIFE!
YOU GET YOUR LACK OF MORAL FROM THE BIBLE!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@willph18
Or dumbass here is a question for you.
What would it say about Me if I would set you on fire simply because you didn't believe (Think) as i said?
What would that tell you about me?
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis I have been thinking about this is breat detail, And I have come to a conclusion about your arguments. You are arguing oveer somethin Christians have NO control over. We DO NOT know who is saved and who is NOT, nor do we know who GOd is LEAding hmself to! but LISTEN to this. YOu are arguing abotu what happens AFTER we die! get that? AFTER. I talking about morals NOW. think about that! You once argued tha what I believe the afterlife was a fantasy.
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
You will not even answer simple questions about torture.
Which is a Human issue given Some think that using it is good.
Assholes like George Bush and the illuminati.
Your refusal to even address the HUMAN issue shows me you seriously have NO MORALS!
What Does Torture Change?
What Does Torture Teach?
What Does Torture Prove?
Those are NOT hard to answer!
At least not to someone that has Morals and Values life!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis We are NOT God! Will you please answer this! Of there IS n RULE or aboslute as to the value of human life NOW, (now, not the afterlife). humans are ALREADY dead, therefore for argument that God "values" life falls apart. God judges based on his rules, and what the people DID in their life!!! after they are dead. If there is NO "rule" as to the value if Human life, that who is to say that it IS?? LIfe is OF MAJOR VALUE. IT IS NOT AN OPINION!!!!!!!!!!!
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
You refuse to answer mine so NO i refuse to answer any from you!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis You have a major hole in your argument. You are saying that there is no objective rule as to haw valueable life is now, Do you not see that hinking that can lead someone to mass murder??? TTHIS is referring to LIFE NOW!!! NOW, NOW again, NOW. not the afterlife, which you call fantasy. So how can you criticize wwhat you believe to be a fantasy? God punishes Evil. anywhere it is! that Is why. He has a standrard fopr what is good and what is evil SIMPLY becasue he is called GOD.
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
I have said morals and laws come from the society and historiical time frame one is in.
Normal people don't look at excusing / justifying the torture of someone different then they are!
In order for that level of evil to be present it takes Religion!
You are no different then Terrorist Muslims that kill for Allah!
Mr Life has No Value / Worth!
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis god is not normal people I COMPLETELY agree that normal people don't look at that the things is, you make a grave error when you suppose God is able to be compared to our standards. Even I Am a sinner, and I deserve death!, remember GOD VALUES life, but hates Evil! Evil leads to death. God loves The craetion HE MADE but he cannot break the rules he set up, that is why we call him GOD. That is WHY he sent Jesus, could I make it any more simple?
willph18 10 months ago
@willph18
I said putting the GOD BULLSHIT ASIDE!
You REFUSE to answer the question at all!
YOU WANT TO PULL THE GOD FANTASY IN WHEN I WAS JUST ASKING YOU WHAT DOES TORTURE TEACH!
WHAT DOES IT PROVE! WHAT DOES IT CHANGE!
AND YOU RFEFUSE TO ANSWER IT!
YOU WANT TO BRING YOUR FANTASIES IN AS A WAY OF AVOIDING THE ISSUE!
YOU MUST LOVE TORTURE OF THOSE DIFFERENT THEN YOU OR YOU WOULD NOT WORK SO HARD TO DODGE THE QUESTION!
YOU HAVE NO MORALS ASSHOLE!\
PastorIblis 10 months ago
@PastorIblis By the way, the "thought crime" you criticize, Jesus was MERELY showing the fact that ALL have sinned, showing that NO ONE is not guilty of sinning/trangressing against their creator GOD, "all have sinned and ffall short of the Golry of GOd"