Cruci-fiction Or Cruci-fixion?-Shabir Ally Vs Annis Shorrosh

[Legend1One]

@derekyellow2005 If all you see is hate and death from the Muslim religion, then you do not know Islam nor any Muslims. Jesus (PBUH) was a Muslim, so it's baffling how can you fix your mind to such a thing? A Muslim is one who submits his will to do the will of God. Did not Jesus (PBUH) do this? Muslims believe in Jesus' miraculous birth, the miracles he wroth (by God permission), and that he is the Messiah. In the future, learn something before posting, because you sound small.

[shieldsff]

A final point I would raise is that the central truth of the original prophets was NOT submission anywhere or that there is a unitary god (for example, both baal & molech were claimed as [names] for god). The central truth is that there is One God and only One True & Living God. It is this God we are commanded to worship. Also, Muhamm. claims that he received his revelations from an angelic being. Can any examples be offered of earlier prophets who received written revelations from angels

[Nazam44]

@shieldsff Ahh, Yes! Moses! Received the 10 commandments by means of angels. See Galatians 3:19.

[shieldsff]

Note Paul is discussing the relationship of faith to the Law of Mose. Check out v.16- "now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made...." can I ask how was this promise made or communicated to Abraham- was it angel like to Moses & if not why? Also note vs 13-14:"Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law being made a curse for us: for it is written cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree; that the blessing of Abraham might come on the gentiles through Jesus Christ". 

[Putnis1]

There's no tangible, historical evidence that the Koranic Muhammad ever existed!

[hish0071]

@Putnis1 Just read the Book by Michel Hart - 100 Most influential Person in the Word. Read the Hadeeth based on all the saying of prophet going back to all the way to the companion and there is a sepreate study of studying the reporters with the Tribal name (The sholars are called Muhaddeseen). If you search if will be there if you dont then you can up your mind. Same goes to Jesus(PBUH) if search you would find the historic Jesus.

[Putnis1]

@hish0071 Yes! Yes! Yes!...

All the usual stuff, plus a tomb. But, where is the artifacts! Where is the evidence. Men are fallible, and will fix anything to make something exist! For instance, we have evidence of allah, the moon god, we have 5000 year old Summerian tablets/records. All hard facts, that we can touch.

Mohammed possibly did exist, but I can't find any hard facts showing his existence... can you help?

[hish0071]

@Putnis1 Im not sure whether you are looking for physical Artifacts if you so you can simply search and they are some pages dedicated for them and if you want to seem them you need to visit Saudi Arabia. But the best way to find out whether person exist or not is through the oral and written history. And if you had read the Details found in the writing such Micheal Hart you would understand that Arab was in backwaters but all of sudden became wellknow throughout the other civilisation.

[Putnis1]

@hish0071 Maybe I will one day visit S.Arabia.

But writings of people, are not factual evidence; although these writing are classed as primary evidence, they are not classified as factual evidence, such as the same evidence of the pagan worshippers pre-islam. Quoting Micheal Hart finding is not factual evidence.

[hish0071]

@Putnis1 well then my friend you should visit S Arabia like i Have but you would not see such artifacts you would find in i.e Egypt or Rome due to the reason i have pointed out to before. Anyways All the best on your search. The reason why i have said to read the historic account is not all are written by Muslim but many are written by others most against the prophet with their prejudice.

[hish0071]

@Putnis1 I shall only point to the direction. Search for The Letter written by Prophet Muhammad To Hercules (the Roman ruler of Jerusalam.) on images and you would find them and there are ways (carbon printing this has been verfied that it was from that era. The Holy Quran is proof as well. how this has been preserved since the time of Prophet without any alteration via Memory and written form. the remarkable turnaround of the Arab who ruled from the Hindus (area) to Spain is example the impact

[hish0071]

@Putnis1 Another point you need to understand Prophet Muhammad did not live a lavish life in this earth for him to have built palaces, to have other artifacts such as Beds,jeweleries etc he was a humble servant of God just like Jesus who left no artifact superficial i.e the persian,Egyptians who have left treasures,. He slept on floor so you wont find a bed or he wore humble clothes hence you will not find adornment, He lived in shack where is buried. but the influence/name/ is far reaching

[albusai]

each should choose your on way,,, the bible says that we must respect oders belives,, and turn the other cheek,, some christian haved forgoten our lords words

[TRINITYisLOVE]

Why can you not stand the idea that tha messias have to suffer? Especially when already the old testament predicted this (Jes 53). The God who revealed himself in the bible is "God with us" (emmanuel), he is so near to us tha he was ready to expereince our sufference. Maria Theresa of Calcutta said: if you want to help the poor, make yourselves poor first.

[PitbullD]

The suffering servant you are talking about was Israel not jesus. Read chapter 48-54 and it will be clear. I myself believed that too. But after reading it, i was convinced that it was not jesus but only israel, the nation.

[knightsofstjoan2004]

@PitbullD=If you think that the suffering servant is Israel and not Yeshua (JESUS) you're sincerely dead wrong. The rabbis long before Rashi knew that Isaiah 53 is about the Messiah. How can Israel die for the sins of Israel? It makes no sense at all and it's totally illogical. Rabbi Alschech in 1550 and Rabbi Eliyyah de Vidas in 1575 knew too that Isaiah 53 is about the Messiah.

[mosharma134]

Jesus is nothing more than a Prophet. If Jesus were God, he should have known the hour of the day of judgement. His family had rejected him as God.

God CANNOT come in human form, for it will subject God to his own commandments. It is impossible to be infinite (God) and finite (Man) at the same time.

Jesus was saved b4 crucifiction. Jesus, a prophet, would never question God's will if he were do die by saying "why have thou forsaken me" and disrespectfully call his mother "woman". Only Judas!

[XThePrimeMinisterX]

Old Test. predictions of Jesus: (Proverbs 30:4) Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know!

(Isaiah 9:6) For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

[XThePrimeMinisterX]

Isaiah 7:14 (NIV) Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. (God With Us)

Psalms 78:2 (NIV) I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter hidden things, things from of old

Isaiah 53:9 (NIV) He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.

[MalteseFalcon786]

@XThePrimeMinisterX You mistranslated Isaiah. The word used is not 'virgin'. The Hebrew word for virgin is 'betulah'. The word used instead is 'almah' which means 'young woman'. Nothing miraculous about a young woman giving birth to a child. The Psalms quote and the other Isaiah one are too vague to be connected with Jesus.

[knightsofstjoan2004]

@mosharma134=That is were you are mistaken. God is not consigned nor limited to the flesh, but He can manifest Himself in whatever form He pleases inorder to fulfill His task. You go and read Isaiah 9:6, John 1:14, and 1 Timothy 3:16. You think that Yeshua (JESUS) was never crucified? Sorry but you're sincerely dead wrong. You want proof? Read Daniel 9:24-27, Pslam 22, and Isaiah 53.

[mosharma134]

Jesus proclaiming "My God, why have thou forsaken me" is clearly a verse proclaiming that Jesus DID NOT willingly go on the cross.

Refer to Psalm 22 for more reference...

Psalm 22:9-11

"But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.

I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help"

The last verse clearly depicts Jesus begging for help!

[XThePrimeMinisterX]

Isaiah 53:12 (NIV) Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Isaiah 50:6 (NIV) I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.

[tuber153]

if ur just here to make a nusance of ur self by after looking at the proofs u jump to another verse with out actually reading a responce and responding accordingly then you should bugger off...go back to our 1st interaction and answer or disprove my points. Seond dnt jump to conclusion as it makes u look dumb like sayin, Muslims say Allah cant have a son thus they reject jesus to be the christ thus they r antichrist..that sounds very dumb as muslim say JESUS IS The CHRIST.shows u dnt knw diddly

[tuber153]

another point worthy of note GODS NATURE DOES NOT CHANGE!!!!! if Jesus 'God', the man is not all knowing(ie of the hour,fig tree ect)and u call him God...yet God is all knwing...but u may say he was a Man aswell but that would mean his man nature would take away his Godly nature and that is in direct violation, in fact Jesus the man being God is in dicrect violation of malachi 3:6..God does not change. Jesus should have knwn the time of the hour. and the fig tree had no fruit as a man!

[Shaxarel]

The Son of God hasn't changed by taking on human flesh. Read Genesis 18 and Genesis 32:22-32. God took on human flesh and still remained God.

Your argument isn't supported by the Bible. God becoming a man doesen't "take" anything away from Him, because He is the source of that creation in the first place.

And he knew that the fig tree didn't have fruit, he withered it to teach the disciples a lesson--read the whole event.

[tuber153]

yes but when God becomes Dumb he changes..and read the parable in the fig tree story..his deciples said he was hungry...and u didnt answer the point on the last hour where even jesus doesnt knw.. so i dnt knw what ur talking about God does not change

[Shaxarel]

Jesus was hungry and he could have made the fig tree grow fruit, couldn't he? but he instead withered it--read the whole thing to get the message he was trying to send to his disciples.

And you are suggesting that Jesus is dumb because he doesn't know the exact hour he is returning? Not only that, but you also put Christ's humanity out of submission to the Father which creates a loophole in your argument.

[tuber153]

ive read the whole message diffrent gosples have the account diffrently one says it died a day later....another says it witherd and died right there and then....and yes i agree he made the best of a bad situation but read the phrase HIS FOLLOWERS SAID HE WAS HUNGGRRRRYYYY.

God is meant to be all knowing and malachi 3:6 clearly states God does not change his nature...How can Jesus not know the Hour if he Is 'God'...

[tuber153]

now we know John's gosple was and is the most latest and the one which shows a greater form of Evo from gosple to gosple, he added the Spear from the Roman centurian which no other scribe mentioned..he was the one who put in his gosples all the 'i am' sayings..if they were that important the others should have written them or atleast mentioned the spear wound.

[Shaxarel]

John is also the only Apostle who died a natural death and lived the longest out of all of them. So there is nothing wrong with His book being the latest; even though the P52 fragment dates to 125-150 A.D. and writers like Clement who live in the first century quoted from the book, giving evidence that it was already in circulation prior to the second century.

[tuber153]

Psalm 2:7 (King James Version) 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

David is now gotta be God....Secondly Jesus has a God in the bible whom he prays to all the time like raising of Lasrath, on cross, praying in Garden..He has a God...FYI God does not have a God

[Shaxarel]

Then why does David say: "A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."(Ps. 110:1) ?

And why does God tell this Lord of David: "The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."(110:4)

A Muslim has no idea what that means, because the religion is totally not based off of what was sent before even though it tries to claim it is.

[tuber153]

do u think the word Lord in the bible means the Almighty God???? if u do think Kiryos always refers to God ur kinda slow...the second word lord is not the same as LORD..its like calling Moses god as compared to then calling moses God(see the wording in its original lang) infact i will email it to you about PS 110:1. and read it with its history not like a brainwashed human but a skeptic

[Shaxarel]

And why does God refer to Himself as having a God in Psalm 45:6-7:

"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.

You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy."

Hmmm.... I wonder who God is talking about :P

[tuber153]

honeslty stop reading a jewish book through greek Glasses.....read a jewish book with Jewish Glasses with the jewish dilect and how jews were referd to as...God or being called lord in bible does not mean God when it suits u best and when it doesnt u ignor it....look at the passages holisticlly and stop cherry picking a verse to try and win an argument. if u are searching for the truth answer my Questions!!!as i have answerd yours with proof...

[tuber153]

So note the evolution in the text. Jesus goes from being called a teacher to being called a Lord in the newer version of Matthew. For easier understanding, Christian scholars agree that the earliest Gospel that was made was that of Mark, then Matthew, then Luke and so on. And as we read these Gospels, we see that the character of Jesus keeps getting more modified and changed. (credit to Shabir Ally)

[Shaxarel]

The Greek has to be taken into account. Kyrios is the word used for Jesus in the Greek, which is the same Kyrios used as a substitute for 'YHWH'. In the Peshitta (Aramaic Bible), 'Mar-Yah' is used to show the connection with Yahweh/YHWH.

The character of Jesus doesn't change, you simply have 4 seperate accounts of the same events. It is foolish to argue that any of the Gospels don't reveal Jesus as the Son of God, because they all blatantly do.

[tuber153]

no one said anything about being called son of God...i dont have a prob with that i have a prob with you ppl calling him th Divine Son Of God..in the bible when your called Son Of God it means Nothing ion sense of being God as in bible God has Many Sons....

[Shaxarel]

Your god has a problem with son of god, regardless of your interpretation or not, see Sura 19:88-95. The Bible commits "gross blasphemy" probably 100+ times according to your god. Something's not adding up, and it is simply due to the fact that the Quran is not from the same God who inspired the Bible.

But the Son is divine, or else demons wouldn't have fell to the ground to worship Jesus as the Holy One, and Son of the Most High God and David wouldn't have said what he did in Ps 45:6-8.

[tuber153]

danial was also worshiped so worship aint nothing in the bible and whats ur point about Ps 45:6-8...i dont know what ur insinuating? and ur not answering my points what your doing is jumping...ur responding for the point of responding..

[Shaxarel]

Jesus says that he is God's monogenēs huios: only begotten. You are trying to defend a Jesus that even Jesus did not claim to be.

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.(Isaiah 9:6)

That is the real Jesus.

[tuber153]

bring me Jesus words not anyones else...simple as

[tuber153]

Being called Lord in the Bible does not always mean you are being called God, this is common fact. When Jesus was called lord it was not meant to call him God or any of that, others were called lords etc did they really call him Lord? Or did they call him rabbi? read Mark 9:5 and Matthew 17:4..another example of Lord being teacher from Bassam is read Mark 4:38 and also read Matthew 8:25

[tuber153]

"even from the text of Thomas I dont see anything from the text that shows Jesus being God. It is obvious that Thomas had some doubt, then regretted it then cried to Jesus saying my Lord (which is doubtful, he could have said teacher for all we know) and then cried to God saying and my God. So Thomas basically confirmed Jesus is the prophet and from God." CONT--

[tuber153]

Also let us read the NT, these verses prove that Jesus is NOT God:

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

A God sent to a specific nation? I think not, Jesus was a prophet; this is exactly why he was sent to a specific nation like all other prophets before him.

also see Jhn 14:24

[tuber153]

Jhn 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

So note Jesus claims his saying and doctrine is not his. This means the Gospel he taught and preached did not belong to him, it belonged to someone else, and who can that be? That person is God.

So just like all other Prophets Jesus teaches the people things which are not from him, but from God, and Jesus teaches them a Gospel that is not from himself, but from God.

[tuber153]

Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

So everything Jesus speaks is not of himself, not his own will, but God tells Jesus what to say, and what he should speak. This is defiantly a prophet; prophets do not speak of themselves, but speak of what God tells them to speak.

[Shaxarel]

If you read the entire chapters of each of the verses you quoted out of context, you will understand why you're exegesis is totally misguided.

[Shaxarel]

Look at the Greek-- ho kyrios mou kai ho theous mou. You cannot seperate Lord and God from Jesus in that reference. Thomas was referring to Him as both; there is no seperation, not even in Aramaic can it be sperated when referring to a single person in that way.

[Shaxarel]

Not only that but when looking at what Jesus said as a reply to Thomas' remark it is evident that he was accepting what Thomas said in the context it was given. Let's hypotheticaly say Jesus wasn't refering to people who haven't seen Him are blessed if they believe He is God, but what just happened?--HE WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD AND STILL HAD HIS CRUCIFIXION WOUNDS.

And that alone proves that the Quran is false.

[tuber153]

just because some one has marks of crucifixion does not prove he died it usually takes three days for one to die via Cruci..so u cnt prove he was raised from the dead..if u say he died..as bible does not prove he raised, as the man the ppl seen was doughtful to be Jesus as the bible says time n time again.

[Shaxarel]

Jesus told the Apostles time and time again exactly the opposite of what you're trying to suggest. He died and rose again so that scripture might be fulfilled (see Mark 8:31). In order for anything you say to be true at all you have to prove that the eye-witnesses' testimony (Peter James, John, etc) isn't true, even after they were told by Jesus that He gave them the keys to the kingdom of heaven.

You anathemize yourself everytime you deny the authority of Christ's words.

[tuber153]

eye witness lol what did the eye witness actually say during his time...what did they argue he was?? funny how u and i are arguing he is God or Prophet...but the people around jesus were debating if he is the christ or a prophet. i dont deny Christ i Deny Pauls version of him

[Shaxarel]

1. Demons call Jesus Son of God 7 times.

2. Humans acknowledge Jesus as Son of God 35 times.

3. Jesus acknowledges Himself as Son of God 7 times.

4. Jesus referred to as 'the Son' 14+ times.

Quran says "Far be it from Allah to have a Son"; therefore Quran denies Christ; Quran = ANTICHRIST book.

[tuber153]

wooow my friend he is referd to as Son of Man 13X b4 being called son of God.. and he even refuts the Pharasee when they say he is claiming to be God in John 10:30-37(i think 38) and dont forget Jesus is not the only son of God.

on to ur point about Quran How in the world did u conclude CHRIST meant son of God when the word christos means messiah? and read Quraan Qur'an Sura 4:171...get ur facts right NO MUSLIM IS A MUSLIM if he Does not accept Christ Jesus son of Marry.

[Rahmat777]

.Paul writings were the earliest documents of the NT to be written, the only reason the 4 gospels were chosen because they were ones which danced to Pauls tune the most. The rest were sidelined and marginalised, authenticity did not matter as much.

"Matt. 20:28 - "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

RANSOM draws paralells with a hostage situation, who exactly was holding him RANSOM, for many? Who wanted payment b4 letting go?

[Shaxarel]

God the Father.

Sin must be payed for.

[Rahmat777]

"God the Father"

Is that what your reducing the most merciful into. Nothing more than a cruel SHYLOCK of a god. who is too miserely to just forgive, who cannot forgive until someone 'pays the price'.

The forgiveness entails that there is NO payment. If someone owes you and you forgive the debt, the debt is forgotten, forgiveness means nothing is payed. If someone has to pay, then there is no forgiveness - you got want you wanted. It is a very easy concept to understand if your mind is clear.

[Shaxarel]

Let me paint a picture for you:

Let's say you killed a person.

You ask God to forgive you, and He does.

OK.. the sin is forgiven, but the damage of that sin still exists because you took someone's life who had a family etc.

How is that damage repaired?

Yes, by God's forgiveness, but what does HE have to show for it in your reality?

Nothing at all.

You believe in a fantasy world, my friend. God is just, he is not a despot of thoughtless power.

[Rahmat777]

I have no need miser of a God. And keep my Merciful God, Universally Merciful and Particularly Merciful, The Most Forgiving and Oft Relenting.

In your haste in following the innovation of Paul you have lost touch with the prophetic tradition which is still there in the Bible. Ezekiel 18:20-22. The fact that no man will be put to death for other peoples sins (Deut 24:16), you die for your own sins, the way out is turn back to God in repentance and remorse. So long man does this he is forgiven.

[Shaxarel]

Whether you like it or not, God requires sacrifice. The Bible is loaded with this fact from Gen. 8:22 & 22:2, through Ex. 8:27 & 13:15, until it was made a part of the law in Exodus 29:36/Lev. 9:7 and finally completed through Christ's sacrifice on the cross

What do you think he was referring to when he said "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

&

"this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins."?

Christ came to save you.

[Shaxarel]

correction on above verse; it's Genesis 8:20, not verse 22.

[tuber153]

Gen does not have fact already been refuted it actually hurts the bible, so whats your opinion of Jesus teaching in Luke 15:11-24? why was there not a blood sacrifice?

[Shaxarel]

Would you mind telling me what in Genesis has been undeniably refuted and hurts the Bible with three or four scholarly sources.

There was a sacrifice in the parable:

verse 23 - 'Bring the fattened calf and kill it.'

In Judaism 'the fattened calf' being referred to would go through a ritual before the feast. Jesus' audience was Jewish, they understood what he was saying, mainly because they don't reject scripture like Muslims.

[takewhole]

yes, with heaven or hell

[Shaxarel]

Sorry, I'm educated. Lies will not work.

The only reason Muslims detest Paul is because he refuted Islam hundreds of years before it came into existence, just like all of the other disciples who refuted every other heresy that denies the Scriptures.

[Shaxarel]

God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and that if he ate of it he would die; so the penalty for sin is DEATH.

Adam did eat, and he did die.

No matter how much Adam prayed or asked for forgiveness HE FACED THE PENALTY.

We all inherited the penalty from him; and we all sin; therefore we all die.

Jesus Christ, being God in the flesh: the only sinless man, who didn't inherit the penalty, was therefore able to pay the penalty for us by taking it on Himself.

[Shaxarel]

If Jesus, the only sinless man, did not take this penalty away from us as Muslims say, then we are all going to hell, no matter what, because that would mean God would have violated Adam's free will for choosing to die.

But Jesus did die, and so we are saved, BUT ONLY IF WE CHOOSE TO ACCEPT HIS SACRIFICE FOR US, since we ourselves choose death, like Adam, every time we sin.

[Rahmat777]

According to the Bible, Jesus broke the 5th commandment, therefore sinned. In john 2:4 he was being disrespectful to his mother, calling her woman instead of mother and as if to rub more salt into the wound, it adds "what have i to do with thee..". Although the Quran says he was kind to his mother and never disrespectful 19:32, why would the bible mention an instance of Jesus showing disrespect? In Mark 5, give an order which caused 2000 pigs to be killed by drowning. but they were not to murder

[Rahmat777]

Mark 12. A scribe said to Jesus that the oneness of God, the love of God and neighbours meant far more than ANY and ALL known sacrifice v33. How did he respond to this? He said he had spoken wisely and not far from the kingdom of God v34.

Do you understand what the word ALL implies?

ALL SACRIFICES. It doesnt matter what type of sacrifice it is, ie. a ox, sheep, goats, lamb or man. If Jesus WERE to have come die for the sins of man, he would have disagreed saying "NOT more than my sacrifice"

[Shaxarel]

Ah! But what did Jesus say is the greatest love?

John 15:13 - "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends."

God is the perfect love; therefore you should get the implication.

Matt. 20:28 - "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

God in the flesh, Jesus, is the fulfillment of all of the sacrifices of the Temple; thus is why it is no more.

[Rahmat777]

You have completely overlooked the point of the reply which was made about Mark 12. Jesus did not come to die for anyones sins. Its a complete fallacy, it is the innovation which Paul foisted upon Christianity. Deut 24:16 each man is put to death for their own sin...

[Shaxarel]

All 4 Gospels and the NT letters agree with Paul on the fact that Jesus is the Son of God, DIED and was Resurrected on the third day for the repentance of sins. The Islamic 'Allah' is a liar and is definitely not God. You should abandon "shirk" and realize that Jesus died for your sins so that you may sit with him on the throne in the kingdom of God.

[Rahmat777]

You are turning out a fraud. Your supposed to come from UAE and you dont even have a clue what Shirk means. how much did you get for selling your brain to the christian missionary. Must have been on the cheap by the looks of it.

Paul made Jesus into a romanised god, to appeal to the pagans who were already familiar with their own mythical gods Mitra, Osiris, Baccus. All of whom died and rose 3 days later for the sins of mankind, they were born on the last week of december and called son of god.

[Shaxarel]

I used "shirk" to use terminology that would perhaps trigger in your mind that Allah, the Lord of Sirius, is not God, and every time a person says the shahada they are breaking the first 2 commandments.

[Rahmat777]

Are you even an Arab or an ex pat who has very little knowledge of Arabic, because you have no comprehension about the very basic concept of true monotheism of the prophet. What were you before adopting Pauls and the Church verison of Jesus. The so-called education you think so highly of is actually very redundant, it gives people the impression you have learnt a lot but in reality you have nothing.

[Shaxarel]

Jesus said that the greatest of the commandments are the Sh'ma and to love God with all your strength etc. And my point is, Jesus said that that the greatest love is giving your life i.e. a sacrifice.

Therefore you cannot separate the love of God from sacrifice.

[tuber153]

Can u give a reference for your quote, of Jesus saying that 'sh'ma ect? I believe when he was asked he quoted Dutro 6:4, but have something different. And you say you're educated in what field and what institution? if you don't mind.

Thank you.

[Shaxarel]

Matthew 22:36 -"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

The Sh'ma is Deut 6:4-9 :) Jesus didn't give anything different at all.

[tuber153]

sorry for late reply but when asked in Mark which was written before Luke and Mathew who's gospels are under examination as nearly all Christian scholars worthy of the name have admitted Luke and Mathew have used Marks bible freely (its called plagiarism now days) any in Mark 12:28-31 the commandment he starts with is dutro 6:4 whats your take on this and please do take the dates of the gosples in to account.

Thank you take care.

[Shaxarel]

Early documents attest against the scholars who argue that Matthew borrowed from Mark, since most of the first century church fathers literally quoted verses from Matthew, as well as Luke and this would create a problem in that theory. However, I'm not understanding what you're asking?--

My take on what Jesus said is that His testimony is true; the first commandment is the greatest commandment, because it is the foundation not only of the Law, but also of existence and relationships.

[tuber153]

Jesus quoted 1st commandment thats thir god is ONE...he never said you got One God And One Lord. and whats ur take on John 1:1...and the history of that verse ull eventually see my point about luke and mathew if u can answer John 1:1 honestly

[Shaxarel]

Christians don't say that God is not one. Jesus made following Him the first commandment, and he confirmed Thomas' testimony of calling Him his Lord and God. Jesus accepts Himself as the Son of God, and YHWH in the gospels. John 1:1 also gives testimony to the fact that Jesus' disciples that he appointed even knew that He is God incarnate.

[Shaxarel]

Knowing that God is one--one God and one Lord, especially helped the early Church realize that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God and that they are not three gods.

Without the Sh'ma the Trinity would not be possible and much of what Jesus would have said would have been looked over, or misunderstood when he was claiming to be God at specific points in His ministry.

[tuber153]

Paul said one lord one God ....that was the his idea Jesus never said one lord and one God....all three have a distinct DIFFRENT personality...if u say father is God, Son is God and HG is God and they are not three Gods but one...my friend thats not english its Giberish( please mind my lang). according to the text of bible..now to prove jesus is not God please read in the Gosple where Says he is not going to the upper room (In Greek please) not english as in english they incerted a word.t

[Shaxarel]

"Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God! [ho kyrios mou kai ho theos mou!]"

Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO DID NOT SEE, AND YET BELIEVED."(John 20:28-29)

Paul didn't start the idea; it was Jesus. Paul is blessed though, since he believed and didn't actually ever meet Jesus in person, but in a vision.

God is one. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirirt are all one.

[tuber153]

see above for my answer from sheikh Shabir Ally

[Shaxarel]

The rest of it is in Deut 11:13-21.

[Shaxarel]

Jesus obeyed the 5th commandment because He did as the woman, His mother, told him to do. It is your opinion that it is disrespectful to call your mother AND creation, who is woman a woman lol

Mary recognized Jesus as her Lord and Savior and so for her to command him to do a miracle is like asking God for a sign AND Him having to do it. Jesus responding in that way is like someone using the expression "what am I going to do with you" exploiting the fact that she knew the type of power she had

[Rahmat777]

Acc to the bible Jesus called his mother, "woman", that is disrespect. Stop trying to squirm your way out. And another thing stop putting words into her mouth, because you have no clue at all. Did you sell your brain and your soul on discount to a missionary? . There is no way out until you abandon shirk of worshipping a human being as God, forgetting the worship of the God that created Jesus. That was the only true God Jesus worshipped. The only being Jesus called the only true God @ John 17:3.

[Shaxarel]

Elizabeth speaking to Mary: "And how has it happened to me, that the MOTHER OF MY LORD would come to me"(Luke 1:43)

Mary: "My soul exalts the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior." (Luke 1:46)

"Who are my mother and my brothers? And looking at those who sat in a circle around him, he said, These are my mother and my brothers. Whoever does the will of God is my brother, and sister, and mother.(Mk.321)

Jesus was not dishonoring Mary by calling her woman.

[Shaxarel]

And the account of the pigs running into the sea is not Jesus killing anything. The demon (Legion) that was inside of the man pleas to Jesus (whom he calls the SON OF GOD) to allow it to possess pigs instead of being cast out completely to hell and Legion is the one who causes the pigs to be killed, not Jesus.

Nonetheless, killing animals is not a sin, which is why the demon could do that. Murder = killing another human being.

[immi2564581]

according to islam,

Jesus would not lie...

now the answer to the question, how Jesus died...

is...

Jesus himself with a loud voice said,

Father, i commence my spirit in thy hands...

and he died then...

God loves you

Jesus is the only way!!

[dilseislam]

According to your earliest gospel Mark Jesus is Supposedly sayig:

"Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means,"My God,my God,why have you forsaken me?"Mark15:34

you see in your earliest gospel Jesus is weak and as more gospels were written people started elevating his image in Luke

"Father,into your hands I commit my spirit."Luke 23:46

"It is finished." John 19:30

Its very easy to point out in Mark's gospel Jesus felt forsaken, in Luke he is in control, in john he know what is happening

[dilseislam]

According to your earliest gospel Mark Jesus is Supposedly sayig:

"Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means,"My God,my God,why have you forsaken me?"Mark15:34

you see in your earliest gospel Jesus is weak and as more gospels were written people started elevating his image in Luke

"Father,into your hands I commit my spirit."Luke 23:46

"It is finished." John 19:30

Its very easy to point out in Mark's gospel Jesus felt forsaken, in Luke he is in control, in john he know what is happening

[Shaxarel]

Please read Psalm 22 and you will understand why Jesus said that.

[Nazam44]

Thanks you for commenting on my video.

It is true that Jesus would not lie and we believe in this by virtue of the fact that we are Muslims. However not everyword of Jesus reported about him is of equal status and validity. We have to try to reconstruct his words using the historical tools that are available to us. However for Muslims the process is simpyler by turning to the Quran which they believe to be the Word of God.

[shieldsff]

@Nazam44 But, have do you "as a muslim" have special knowledge of which of Jesus' words are of 'equal status & validity'. Wouldn't it mean that you are corrupting the teachings and full truth of God if you are subjectively accepting some of Jesus' words and not his full sayings. Would your statement also apply to the words of Abraham and Moses for example ? Also, if I as a christian selectively accepted some of the words of Muhammad and rejected others is that acceptable in Islam ?

[shieldsff]

@Nazam44-thanks for responding- so R U implying that Moses received all his scriptures from angels? Assuming this is true, how come it's not a specifically, named angel (like Gabrielle who supposedly came to Muhamm.) ? As you cite Moses here, do you believe that this God of Moses is the true God of Creation. Since YOU cite Paul in this instance, are you implying that you accept the other writings & teachings of Paul? Do you accept that Jesus & Paul received their scriptures from angels?

[amooballer]

ya jesus wouldnt lie.. but your book and the people who wrote them lie and lied on jesus's behalf. its that easy.

[mladibosnjaci]

indeed you have demolished the idol worshipers and we will continue to do so - inshallah.

[hanifemail]

Person on the cross (not Jesus pbuh) is crying -Oh GOD Oh GOD why though forsaken me?

Proofs -the LORD didn't die willingly then NO "so called" sacrifice for your sins !!!

No crucification -No resurection -No chritianity

Also...

1. why did GOD make this world?

2. sacrificed his son to correct his mistake?

3. why go to church&pray?

4. why confess sins in the church?

Jesus -I am sent not but to the lordship of Israel

to aposals -don't ye go (preach) in the way of the gentise (non-jews)

[dilseislam]

lol Anis Is Pawned So Badly

[USAWorseThanHitler]

lol, indeed.

[muslim9x9x]

whats behind the white cloth?

[NyuAkatsuki]

looks like a Jesus on a bloody cross idol, they put the cloth there so there is no emotional influence on the debate