Return To Forever Live 1973 - Captain Señor Mouse/Game Maker (pt. 1/2)

[kerryrock1]

Never heard of earl klugh playing with RTF, the thing about connors is is ability of phrasing and space. he knows when to say something and not, using space in soloing is extremely important, nothing worse then someone playing in every possible space without coming up for air, ever been with someone who talks without taking a breath? scott henderson is the only other guitarist (who played with RTF) who approaches his in soloing in the same manner, the absence of a note is just as powerful.

[str8ngrrr]

@funkydrumr51 TYPO -- should read "Clarke under 'related' "

[str8ngrrr]

@funkydrumr51 No, this is BC. Best RTF lineup, to me. A like of DiM is referring to a trio vid with Clarke and "related". Sorry for any confusion.

[str8ngrrr]

Typo -- Klugh replaced Conners .... Sorry. JC

[str8ngrrr]

Klugh was replaced Conners. Took lessons with Bill in the early 80's, "Swimming with ..." time frame, give or take. MAN can play. However, this above is the first time DiMeola sounded like he was in a group, not whipping modes about by himself and is an EXCELLENT version of AL at his finest, IMO.

[funkydrumr51]

@str8ngrrr Wait a sec... you took lessons from Bill Connors? And you think this is DeMeola on guitar in this recording?

[stretchgilbert]

What Ever happened to Bill connors

[oldschoolbbass]

This was the 2nd line up of the gruop.It first had Corea,Joe farell,Airto Moriera,Flora Purim and Stanley Clarke from 72-73.

[thomashood252003]

@oldschoolbbass wouldn't this be the 3rd incarnation of the group ...Earl Klugh was in the second I believe....

[vanhool999]

Interesting how amazingly Stanley Clarke's sound has improved here over the studio version - a Jaco kind of fluff and buzz and presence to the sound - on the album it almost gets lost some of the time.

[kerryrock1]

bill connors was RTF .Al dimeola and frank gamble were all right but were technicians. if u listen to bill connors he takes his time in building a solo until he is in a frenzy and then comes back down. connors is a heart player, he leaves his whole soul on a recording, he is lyrical, emotional and uses his technique appropriately, there is no comparison, not like dimeola tried to impress with speed and it did not survive the test of time, only scott henderson came a second place ,

[Jay435]

@kerryrock1 Yes, Connors is one of a kind and full of amazing surprises that raise the hair on the back of your neck.

[funkydrumr51]

@kerryrock1 I could not agree more. DeMeola is an amazing player, but I just don't hear the heart and soul that Billy brings to the party. I was heartbroken when I found out he had been replaced in RTF in 1974.

[GrandFunker]

This one of my all time favorite albums! I got it totally by accident. Never even heard of them, and one day...I have this record in my hands, with these dudes faces on the wings of a dove. I'm thinking...this oughtta be good for a laugh! Then the needle touched down and I was of course blown away!

[HWolfeIII]

Return to Forever and it's many incarnations were always great! I personally prefer The Corea, Clarke, White, DiMeola version the best. However, let's see what new ground this upcoming version is able to break featuring Jean Luc Ponty.

[KennediKingSongs]

Jeez...Lenny White is a human frickin dynamo!!! Saw these guys play this LIVE in the 70s...(with Al Dimeola)... one of my all time fav music events!! Great post!! ~KK

[nickerz65]

Al was quite young in RTF only 19 I believe...Bill was already in his late 20's early 30's...And a seasoned player...Both are incredible talents but yeah I prefer Connors looser style and his tone and vibrato over all.

[doogal1234]

Bill Connors was a very good fit and gave the band a certain 'feel'. Al DiMeola was also very good, and very fast as well, but I agree, it took him a bit to get more feel into his skill set, and after a bit he had settled in very well - but still, both are amazing guitarists.

[killercrabman]

super killer version.

[mjohn64il]

There is another issue regarding the Bill Conners version of RTF - it's been whitewashed from the popular conception of RTF. I was quite annoyed that the recent RTF live CD only had a short, throw-away performance from the Hymn.. LP.

[Cutedervish]

f'n killa....KILLAA

[bobanbu]

Billy was SO much better than Al "I run scales real fast but had to be sent to Larry Coryell to learn how to put some mojo in my playing but it still took years to have half the feeling Carlos does, but hey - Chick hired me cause I could read like a muthah and there were few fusion guitarists back then" Dimeaola...LOL!

[DiveJunkee]

@bobanbu Ya know, I prefer Mr. Connors' playing on "Señor Mouse" to Mr. DiMeola's as well, but if you really believe that "I run scales real fast but blah blah blah..." defines Al DiMeola then you're really just another closed-minded jackass that has no clue as to what the fuck he's talking about.

[timminananda]

@DiveJunkee

Al DiMeola and Bill Connor have two, divergent styles. That Bill plays this tune "better" is a matter of taste, but I would side with Bobanbu in that DiMeola was too technically overbearing when he started with RTF. Marvelous that he could read Chick's charts live (saw him do it when the band was first gigging); I'll give him that and say that the performances on the recent tour were very tasteful.

[GrandFunker]

@DiveJunkee I think his album was too heavy for DiMeola as good as he is.

[kewl2006]

@bobanbu hahaha this is quite laughable...

[jaikwillis]

@bobanbu I agree to a degree, this recording here is so much more interesting than the later RTF stuff. This is what should have been released as the 3rd official RTF record.

[Superphilipp]

@jaikwillis Wasn't it? "Hymn of the seventh Galaxy", this exact band. It was the third RTF record.

[jaikwillis]

@Superphilipp yes same band, what I said was that this recording is what they should have released as their 3rd record. I think this is a lot more passionate and compelling than what came later.

[bobanbu]

THANKS! awesome! I saw the band w Steve Gadd and Mingo Lewis w Stanley still on acoustic doing all the Flora era flamenco stuff for 5 days straight at Jazz workshop in Boston early 1973, and the band w Lenny about 7 times. the dynamics of this group are second to NONE - and I' saw almost everyone back then.