Regardless if it is in Gaelic my nations native tongue one thing is certain the Scottish people were unaware until the 30yr limited was passed thanks to the FOI act the campaign couldn't be more stronger to secure our independance if it works for other foreign Independant Countries then am Damn sure it could work for Scotland
Yes, independence for Scotland...if the English could vote we would vote for an Independent Scotland too..... But I fear that the Scots will go with opinion polls and vote against........if you are Scottish and read this please spread the word to go for Independence...........please!!!!
I live in England but I find it very upsetting how millions and millions of Scottish people have been lied to and cheated over decades. Programmes like these should not be restricted to be shown on regional TV but also in England. What has happened is nothing short of scandalous and this should be taught in schools as part of history!
Whilst this is a real eye opener and wonderful reporting, I feel sad, even emotional that millions of Scots have been lied to, cheated and robbed to fund the Westminster machine.
Now is the time for the Scots revolution to gain complete Independence from this one sided union.
If we dinna take this opportunity Scotland will continue to be raped and plundered by England.
@massacre65 i'm all for an independent Scotland, if that's what you want, but you don't need to make up lies about England and the nonexistent English government in the making
@SonicGeneration I haven't made up any lies man - watch the bloody video - it is a factual account of how Scotalnd has been cheated by the Westminster Government.
I as a young child recall my father being followed by plain clothes men, all because he wished independance and that was in the 1950's. Him being a civil servant never helped his promotion prospects either. This is the truth of the days inthe 50's and 60's you will never see anything documented regarding the exploits and dirty tricks of the 'unionist movement'. To thisday I will never forgive what is and has been done to my nation and its people.
There is no doubt scottish culture and our heritage will flourish and grow and be celabrated when scotland is independent! In the world we live in and everybody elses culture surviving through there own independent nation and i think you will see other countries opting for the same!! To be FREE! Most of us on this planet dream of being set free from the different chains that bined us! just not UNIONists
Yes brits should leave eire! As my fam are irishscot! But scotland has to take a different path than our irish brothers!! I want us to achieve independence without it stained with innocent blood! I dont want terrorism connected to our freedom! in the past yes we tried through bloodshed! But now the world we live in has changed and peoples mentalities have changed to! We will achieve our identity and show the world how its done! Saor alba!!
It is the most important question in Scottish politics today and because they know their 'arguments' are failing the unionists are running a mile from any referendum!
Tripe. The SNP are a minority Government who had the Edinburgh trams forced through by the unionist parties. To expect their entire manifesto to be put through in that position is utterly ridiculous.
No, they've fullfilled most of their manifesto pledges and are working towards completeing the rest. 90 something pledges and 60 something fulfilled..... Independence is the only proper choice for Scotland. We fight every day in order to try and keep our culture, history, language and the essence of who we are alive. The English Government will never give the focus needed to get Scotland out of the pit as they have their own priorities to worry about. Free Scotland means more of a voice.
I support independence for Scotland. However, independence is no guarantee that all of Scottish culture will survive into the future. That depends on policies after independence is gained...if that happens.
@davidadamson9640 . I well remember Tony Blair bringing out his pledge card,when they won in '97 - it had 5 promises on it they pledged to achieve in the 1st term. New Labour,the nation's great hope after 18 years of Tories,couldn't even fulfill the 5 pledges (whatever the hollow promises were,can't recall now).
And who says the SNP will be in power for ever in an independent Scotland?
Under independence, Scotland would be a normal functioning multiparty democracy with free and fair elections. Any number of parties would be able to form the government.
Unlike now, Scotland would have a normal political culture totally different to the weird parallel universe that exists now in Scottish politics. Even the Tories would have a better shout at forming the government than now...
Yes you are right they do understand that there is more ,far more.However the majority of them still seem to opt for Independence when here!Hmmm?Wonder why?I'll tell you why it is because the union offers little when it comes to progress,change and future.Independence does.Apart from that they see the SNP delivering policies which serve them.Something quite uncommon with the unionists. Saor Alba
No we are not because a high percentage of them vote SNP.You see,unlike yourself they have open minds and open eyes .They most often see quite clearly what is wrong in Scotland and draw the correct conclusions. INDEPENDENCE
It's alright Captain Mannering don't worry!I've told him to go and watch Monty pythons "department of arguments"!!Just hope the troll takes the hint and recognizes his reflection within the said video!Never thought I would end up arguing so much with a troll on you tube!I
I can't believe I'm about to stick up for a British Nat-but at least British Watcher is up front and honest with his argument and he is not offensive. He allows the argument to take place. Whatever we might think he sees Britain as one country and all his arguments are based on that. I don't agree with him and I don't like the way he posts an essay everytime to take over the whole comments page, but at least he/she's not 2 faced like the 'I'm Scottish and British' lot... at least I don't think!!
I also agree with this comment!Well said RobQos!He is tenacious and I also admire that!However just like you i cannot understand the lengths he goes to on the essay side!:) :)Mind you I am not doing to badly myself on that front recently :) :)
That might have been for Holyrood elections. It's 37 to 25 for SNP in the Euros and 36 to 27 for Westminster. Although I don't think we should be too complacent. There are still a lot of people to persude. I find it astonishing that a quarter of Scots are willing to vote for a party that would readily take us into illegal wars. A party that have lost their morals when it comes to nuclear and supporting ordinary people while backing big business. The party of dirty tricks and corruption.
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It is strange how loyal many people in Scotland are to labour, its the same with places like the North East of England, for some reason people are still prepared to support them.
As for the polls, labours decline is huge and i hope that labour is so damaged next week it does force an early election. Labour are going to be slaughtered in the local english elections aswell as european ones.
Whilst the polls are very good for the SNP, let us not forget its about 60% for unionist parties
You separatist, Scotland is part of my country. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, there for i wont stay out of politics which directly impacts on me.
You tell me to take my unionist propaganda else? this video is separatist propaganda, pushing a one sided point of view.
"Scotland is part of my country" fuck off. Scotland has existed longer than the union and england. we are our own country and you dont have anything to do with it. so fuck u and the union
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Scotland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It is part of my country, this is undisputed fact and i have a passport to prove it.
Alba, look i can understand u wanting independence and ofcourse its for the people of Scotland to decide their future, but this idea u can try and say that Scotland isnt part of the UK which is my country is silly and pathetic.
@Alba12349 Typical Scottish bigot - loves to insult England and 'English dominance' but never actually gives facts. You nationalists are fools, the lot of you :)
Scottish Independence is on the way people. It is just a matter of time. All the people at the Tory and the Labour conference are old people from an era where maybe the union was a good idea. The world wars for example.
However, since the end of the war there has been no positve case for the union and especially in the last 30 years the unionists have used lied like hell about Scotland. The west coast Labour mafia have and are still using every dirty trick to keep Scotland in the union.
Because their political lives depend on it. Look how much extra money they can get on expenses being at Westminister instead of Holyrood. They then go into the house of Lords unelected by the people. They can even break the law and go in there or break the law while they are in there. No wonder Scottish politicians are so desperate to keep Scotland joined to England.
And Scottish media faithfully back them all the way. Never questioning them. Covering up stories, concealing the truth.
Diverting attention from the things that really matter. Look at Labour and the media desperatly trying to get Kenny Macaskill sacked at the moment. A great diversion from their collegues who are ALL OVER the papers down south for their expenses.
Well there is a more positive route for Scotland and we are slowly but surely taking it. The SNP has a great mix of people and the number of young members is growing all the time.
t's also a broad church with lots of political views but they all have one aim. Also the young Scottish Parliamentarians are overwhelmingly in favour of Independence. Its on the way people.
Actually the last report i saw on the "Scottish youth parliament" didnt say that the overwhelming majority supported independence. I think ull find they failed to get 50% needed to put independence in their manifesto. Sure the % for keep the union was smaller, but thats plenty of undecided who do not favour independence.
Also just because the current bunch of young people may support independence more, doesnt mean it will always be the case, it is possible to restore British identity for people
You are right about the BNP being a broad church with lots of political views.. ofcourse that plays to our advantage because you can be divided on matters.
Especially the EU and NATO, something many SNP supporters have differing views on.
The media has been focusing on any mp thats been breaking rules. the Scottish media may focus on Scottish members of parliament but that is just the same as the souths BBC news channel focusing on Southern MPs. Its not like the BBC and other Scottish media have only been attacking the SNP
As for the great mix of people, its true the SNP is managing to corrupt alot of young peoples minds but thats nothing new. People do and think silly things when theyre young, Jack Mcconnell joined SNP at 16
The house of Lords is going to be gone in a few years anyway so that really isnt very important anymore as for expenses i think ull find the European ones are far worse but thats no reason to withdraw from the EU as u seek to bail from westminister.
As for the scottish media the majority are rightfully against separatism. Imagine how ud feel about some media in an independent Scotland seeking to break up Scotland too. The UK is a sovereign country
As for the media backing the up all the way and never questioning, i think the fact this video was aired on the BBC several times goes to show they are not covering everything up.
The SNP get treated fairly, they could trash the SNP the way they do the BNP which really does get negative media coverage round the clock
HMmm well thank you im glad that you accept the union may of been a good idea in the past. Sadly today people think we live in a peaceful and perfect world and there are no risks.
2 decades ago people would never of thought the cold war was going to end, how can we be sure what kind of world is just around the corner?
The SNP dont want Scotland to be part of NATO, totally disregarding an alliance that has helped keep europe free for 60 years + they were anti nuclear before the cold war ended
even now universally agreed upon. Particularly the origin of the scots which most archeological evidence suggests arrived at the same time roughly in scot as in ireland and there was a p/q celtic split in scot from an earlier period than previously thought. this is beside the point to bring up a point such as no vote on scotland is quite frankly preposterous. I think you'll find most people, particularly the english themselves see an 'english' empire in reality rather than utopian 'british'.
The fact remains Rosbrog, there was no vote on Scotland becoming a country. As alba has put it before Scotland "developed" like other nations. I dont understand why the United Kingdom can not be seen to of "developed" as well.
It all simply depends on your point of view. Today i see no reason why Scottish identity is any more valid than British identity. Its a matter of choice how we identity ourselves. I think of myself as British. The Empire is known as the British Empire, not an English one
You miss the point britwatcher. I couldn't care if scotland was far more succesful after union, incidentallt the enlightenment, scientific advances etc are in no way intrinsically tied to union however much you protest. He who takes the shilling whilst his own culture is extirpated is not worthy of the name scottish or whatever nationality they are.
No vote on scotland, i find some of the dark age history fascinating but how the picts, britons, scots, angles and norse formed scotland is not
Its simple fact Rosbrog, Scotland was in economic crisis before the union and yet after it Scotland went through its greatest era in history. Its economic success was certainly tied with the unon, especially during the period of the Industrial revolution which benefited Scottish cities and 10,000s of Scottish families who moved south for work
There was no european union back then or free trade. The union with England which created the Kingdom of Great Britain opened up huge markets for Scotland
This is very, very simple regarding britishwatcher and johnbull123 (by the name i assume quite naturally that you are english).
After centuries of fighting off english imperialistic advances our politicians sold us down the river in the face of bribery and threats.
You are english (i.e. the opressors) I don't judge english people nowadays like that but your insistance on promoting the imperialist agenda classes you as such an english person.
Only scottish people should have a say on this.....
England and Scotland did fight for many centuries, England suffered at the hands of invaders in the past aswell. However Scotland and Englands parliaments voted to unite our nations to create the Kingdom of Great Britain.
Now you can be unhappy about the way it formed (although it was FAR more democratic than the way Scotland herself was formed, atleast there was a vote for Great Britain). But history shows Scotlands greatest era in history happened AFTER that union, not before
I repeat !31 commisioners 15 of whom were bribed to sign the treaty of union!The people of Scotland were and have never been asked wether they want to be in this union!As to your somewhat utopian views concerning democracy!If you believe that this provokes me you are wrong!People know what went on and they understand it!You are the guys that don't allow free speech on your postings you won't even allow a vote!So do not even attempt to ex-plain democracy to others!SAOR ALBA
Sorry Alba but there was still a vote on it by the Scottish parliament, is England to blame if some in that parliament were corrupt? As i have asked you several times before.
Please can you tell me when the people of what is now Scotland voted for Scotland to become a country? Its simple fact the union was more democratically formed than Scotland herself was.
You shrug that off by saying "Scotland developed" well so did the UK but i notice you are only crying about one of the two.. not both
I believe that England was to blame for the bribery that took place!I never made any apologies for the traitors who sold there own country into this so called union!As to your question concerning "democratic"I have answered that to the point of exhaustion!I will not repeat it again !You are the one who has a somewhat distorted understanding of democracy in this regard ! INDEPENDENCE!
England and Scotland were weak european nations until they united and went onto form one of the greatest empires in human history, responsible for creating more democracies than any other country on record
We should remember the past but we have to move on. Its not like English people lived in luxury whilst everyone in Scotland suffered.. life was hard for most no matter what side of the border
Also dont forget who started the unification of England and Scotland. it was a Scottish King in 1603
Again this is your opinion!The great empire you speak of was for feeding the rich and depriving the poor!Which democracies do you speak of name some?As to moving on "we the Scots"are characters like yourself are the ones with the problem when it comes to moving on!In connection to suffering I agree to an extent!Your history teacher however obviously failed to inform you that Elizabeth the1 sat on the throne in 1603 after having beheaded Mary queen of SCOTS!
I think you will find that the Scottish King took the throne of England in 1603 and wanted to unite his kingdoms but wasnt able to because it was unpopular and opposed in England and Scotland. Even so he had the union flag made which has remained our nations flag for 300+ years.
Its true most British people never saw the wealth of empire, but the employment created because of it was important and that wealth allowed us to defend our nation from foreign invaders.
Mary Queen of Scots was put on trial for treason and executed over 15 years before 1603. Queen Elizabeth I of England was on the throne long before that execution of Mary. Marys son James, was the Scottish King that later sat on the English throne and laid the foundations for our United Kingdom.
As for naming some of the democracies? Lmfao, get a map. How about Australia and Canada? How about our involvement in India which led to the creation of the worlds most populated democracy.
Elizabeth sat on a throne that was not hers!As to the trial and execution of Mary I note how once again you fail to mention the injustice thereof!As to your aealier remark concerning James !Elizabeth sat on the throne until march 1603 she was then succeeded by James who was basically English raised to suit! As far as I am aware the "union of the crowns"did take place in 1603!It is at least the officially recognized figure!Anyway I believe in today not yesteryear!INDEPENDENCE!
2 trying to make the SNP look as sleazy and rotten as the Tories or the Labour Party just won't work!The SNP's track record to date concerning "Scandal" of any sort has been nigh on impeccable!
So awa an bile yer heid !Or at least try to be somewhat more intelligent in your argumentation! Independence NOW !
There are 600 labour, Lib dem and Conservative MPs. There are currently only 7 SNP members of parliament.. do you not think the SNP has a slight advantage of not having rotten eggs because it has so few MPs?
As for the Scottish parliament having cleaner rules, it does but lets not forget those rules were voted in with a unionist majority.. Its not like the SNP imposed those rules on cheating unionists.
Long live the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
No I don't think they have any advantage because on average you will find that the SNP has plenty of MSP's MEP's MP's and also councillors and other elected members and when you look back in time you will find that there have been very few if any that have been caught up in scandal of any sorts!Considering that they have been monitored closely by MI5 since the 1930's .I find this track record impeccable and also astonishing! INDEPENDENCE
sorry but you fail to accept the fact theres more chance of rotten eggs being in a party when they have 100s of seats rather than just 7. Thats obviously going to be the case and even some of the SNPs claims are questionable. We are talking about the westminister system not MEPs, MSPs etc
Ofcourse such a separatist party was monitored in the 1930s, thats one of the problems with this film it puts nothing into context. All parties which could of threatened the state like communists were watched
They were not merely monitiored in the thirties as you well know!They were monitored right into the 60's and 70's and one would have to be naive to believe that is not still going on!As to acceptance I do accept the rule of average!However you failt to accept that the SNP'strack record despite being monitored is nigh on impeccable in connection to Scandal!This also applies to Wastemonster wether you like it or lump it!People can see it so who cares what you think!
It was a different world just a few short decades ago, i very much doubt the security services monitor the SNP today although id quite like them to. ANy dirt they could release on salmond would be helpful :). It seems strange we spend billions defending this country from foreign threats yet allow someone like salmond to encourage its total destruction but do nothing.
I dont think MI5 monitoring the SNP in 1970 would see the need to inform people they were fiddling their expenses.
You are a great twister Britwatcher!The services you refer to probably still are doing the moonitoring!As to your wishes if they could find something then I am sure they would release it!Because they are just as desperate as you to destroy what is good for Scotland!
1: Firstly i think you should really take a look at the expenses that others have accumalated!Secondly he is well within his means according to the statutesAs is Robertson!Thirdly in Scotland we have a system in place where that sort of rot doesn't go on!And finally!The same Salmond who you try to slag puts the whole salary he is entitled to receive from Wastemonster into a charitable trust!The sum amounts to ca £132.000!He does so out of principal!
As for Mr Salmonds westminister salary, how ever nobale of him to send it to charity ofcourse perhaps it would be better if he let someone else have his seat to do his job rather than be greedy and having two constituency seats aswell as being first minister.
Is he worried that a different SNP MP might not get as much votes as he does? Its clear from voting patterns that Salmond is able to do far better than the overwhelming majority of SNP members. Hes a popular guy we all know that = )
Mr Salmond is merely doing what Wastemonsters statutes allow him to do in regard to these matters!However giving his salary to charity is something that I think you will find few examples of at Wastermonster!As to his reasons I am sure he has them:) :) ! INDEPENDENCE
North Sea oil has only been an issue for 40 years, so the UK lasted 240 years before Scotland started contributing North sea Oil.
We can look at the figures and see that Scotland has done very well out of the union in certain years. It is simply impossible for you to say that Scotland has paid in more to the union over 300 years than its got out of it. Scotland was in economic crisis before it joined with England, decades later there was a big thing called the Scottish Enlightenment
Ofcourse all countries put out propaganda, they dont want to allow separatist movements or revolutionary movements which threaten the state.
Thats one of the things i object about in this film, it talks about the security services spying on scottish separatists.. they fail to put it into context that at that period all such movements were watched, people were worried of revolutions.
Its clear this program is biased because it asks noone for comment to defend what they did or said.
You are more than something else.You feel quite comfortable watching the union government putting explosives in the Hands of young men merely to discredit the political opposition!At the best that is undemocratic at worst it is .............!As to bias the only one biased here are you this video is disclosing facts no more no less .....What CAN be said to counter it?....Wait I'll answer that myself....NOTHING! Saor Alba
Lol, the country and indeed the world was rather different back then. Im sorry but its biased because it doesnt allow anyone to counter the claims. I dont know the full details of the case when it comes to the explosives plot, but im sure they could come up with some excuse :)
Lmfao, im sorry but this England and Scotland have been united for 300 years, if one of the two has taken more money than the other i think you will find it wasnt England taking from Scotland.
Look at the Scottish budget in detail, you can see Scotlands expenditure and revenue.. Scotland isnt being ripped off. The Scottish government website controlled by separatists now even shows all revenue from north sea oil too.
Tell me Brit watcher!Are you of this world?Have you still not listened to what has been disclosed here?You are starting to become a nuisance nothing more nothing less .You are going round in circles and talking trash.Sorry I have tried to argue reasonably as can be seen but you ignorance is simply beyond question as far as i am concerned!
Had it not been for the revenue from North sea oil your union would have been forced to declare bankruptcy and start printing inflationary money in 1980!Scotland from the beginnig of this union has been paying away above the odds in more than one way!Fisheries agriculture and moreover industry all in decline and some even nearly gone and you dare to say Scotland has not paid?!Scotland has paid more than you will ever know boy and continues to do so!FACT not Fiction!
Had it not been for the union how do you know what would of happened to the north sea? For 300 years it has been defended by the British armed forces. When Scotland and England united which country had the more powerful navy?
North sea oil is important, Scotland contributes alot to the union just as each part of the UK has in our history, be it welsh coal or English blood in world wars where Englands large population was vital to keep this country free.
No arguments left so what does the average unionist do?He reverts back to if's and buts and of course the war!As to the blood shed in those wars.How dare you claim it was only ( or more) English.Per head of population the statistics show that Scots and Welsh shed just as much if not more!As to defense I think you will find that a lot of the wars that England got involved in Scotland would never have been part of had it not been for the union!Recent example IRAK!
Lmao im sorry but what i said was correct. More English men have died fighting for this United Kingdom in the last 300 years than Irish, Scottish and Welsh combined. Ofcourse thats the case as England has by far the biggest population, but its just the same as the fact most of the UKs north sea oil comes from Scotland
Blood or oil, i know which i think is more important. You say unionists revert back to Ifs and buts, i think u did one or two just then ur self, and even ofcourse the war in Iraq
As for your statement in connection to north sea oil being Scotlands only economic asset.You know as do the majority of people that this is simply not correct.Scotland unlike England has never accquired a trades deficit.We have many healthy industries left here in SCO despite the great loss of industrial diversity throughout the 60's 70's and 80's! Fact is this constant drain has never stopped even as we speak! Independence!!!!!! Saor Alba
I never said Scotland only had one economic asset. I said that the only real economic case is oil. Meaning its only oil that aids the SNPs argument that Scotland would be better off as an independent nation, which ofcourse is still disputed.
Scotlands main trading partner is England. Now when you insult England by breaking up the UK do you think trade will grow or weaken? Do you really think the English government is going to give so many contracts to Scottish companies like First + Stagecoach
Things can be done at the UK level to strenghten the union over time and ofcourse the SNP will not be in limited control of parliament for ever.
Who knows, if the tories do win the next election and dont do too bad a job u may actually see some people starting to like them again in Scotland. The core areas people care about in Scotland thanks to devolution are run by the Scottish parliament, so the conservatives cant be blame for the SNPs failures to spend wisely in power. :)
I seriously doubt that the torie vote will increase greatly.Scotland and the people thereof have not forgotten how they betrayed us!As for the spending matter .I think you will find that the majority of people see an SNP government that is spending there money very wisely!So i doubt if blame will be required at any point soon! Saor Alba!
Parties continue to change, they spend a certain period in power and then spend time out of power, its an endless cycle. Whilst i agree that the tories are far more unpopular in Scotland than they are in England, i still fail to see why opinion cant change (u said so urself a moment ago it can).
Especially as the UK government is no longer responsible for how money on things like education and health are spent. It really does take away the need for "independence". for some people.
As for the SNP being popular and spending money wisely that may be the case now but governments become unpopular over time, it always happens and it will happen to the SNP. To think the SNP is some sort of special case would be very foolish. In time opinion of salmond and the SNP will change for the worse.
Even if we go by the SNPs polls they get excited about, it shows that the SNP is going to fail to get a majority in the Scottish parliament which means they can not introduce a referendum
You are gripping at straws .The SNP have been returned in nearly every seat they have taken to my knowledge and that proves just how solid they are when in government.However that does not mean that the SNP will always be in that position that is only common sense!Things do change as do Partys .Personally I hope that for Scotlands sake the SNP keep up the good work they have done up until now!As for the referendum....we shall see ! Saor Alba
Several of the seats the SNP hold are with very small majorities. Lets not forget the SNP is only in power today because one SNP MSP won a majority of 48 votes. What a strong majority that MSP has lol.
When we look at the results in 2008, The SNP won one with a majority of about 350, labour held the other with a majority of 6000. Quite a difference huh? Even the SNPs deputy leader has a majority of less than 1000
Obviously i disagree with you. Long live the United Kingdom! God save OUR Queen
As has already been said you are gripping at straws.The trend is clear and like it or lump it the people are waking up to what has and still is going on!Had the union you speak of been fair and had it been honest and straight then the vote for the SNP would maybe never have become necessary! I respect your effort to defend "your so called union" eventhough I do not agree at all!As for the majoritys they may be small in some cases however it seems they are growing rapidly!
Ive accepted there is a growing trend and i do consider it a huge threat to this country that must be tackled, but it is still a small movement at the moment, there is no widespread demand or support for independence, as reflected in all opinion polls and as shown in polls embraced by the SNP themselves.
We will have to wait and see in 2010 how the SNP do and 2011 or when the next Scottish parliament election is. But in 2010 the SNP hope to get 20 Scottish MPs. that is still less than half.
I am pleased to hear that you accept the growing trend.However unlike you I do not see or understand it as a threat but farmore as a blessing!Furthermore I think you will find that the SNP is more than merely a small movement in todays Scotland!As for independence and support therefore. We shall see!As with the referendum!Nothing is inevitable eventhough there is growing room for confidence concerning independence ! Saor Alba!
Separatism is indeed a threat that must be crushed in time. Alot of people do not take this matter as seriously as they should, even those in politics are simply getting on with the job most of the time and rarely focusing on the independence problem which does create avoid for the SNP and their supporters to infiltrate and corrupt minds, the BNP do the same sort of thing here taking advantage of mainstream incompetence.
There is enough time to turn things around and prevent he destruction.
Sadly you seem to have reverted to your old scaremongering ways!Short of arguments you begin to draw parallels between the SNP and the BNP.With this you simply prove that it is your mind that is corrupted!Scotland will continue to progress with or without your flawed remarks!
Ofcourse the SNP and BNP are very different, the SNP isnt racist or right wing nuts. All im saying is the void which is created by the mainstream parties here in England because they havnt tackled issues like immigration has created an opening for the BNP and a way for them to corrupt peoples minds.
The same sort of thing has happened in Scotland where unionist parties havnt been defending the union as much as they should have, resulting in a void for the SNP to fill with separatist propaganda
What is there to defend after the revelations that have been disclosed here and elsewhere in recent years .The union is one big lye nothing else!The difference now is that people are beginning to see and understand it.However what is even more important they are beginning to act accordingly ! Saor Alba!
lol, the unionists will not simply sit back and allow u separatists to break up the United Kingdom, it has lasted for 300 years and it will continue despite these troubled times.
polls shown by the SNP themselves clearly show over 60% of people intend to vote for unionist parties in the next election. Whilst this video is damaging (and biased) the movie braveheart creates more problems as lots of separatists love playing on Wallace and turning people against the evil English.
No one is asking them to sit back !But as you mentioned earlier they are doing a fine job making a mess of things!As I have said before the trend is clear!However unlike you I would never be presumptious enough to state that we have won unlike you with your silly little union!The revelations disclosed in these videos are nothing short of scandalous and certainly not biased! I for one am pro Scottish and not anti anyone!! Saor Alba
lmao, sorry but the whole film was biased putting nothing into context and giving noone the chance to defend the position or atleast comment on it. Thats bias, but i agree with u the things mentioned are damaging, but its certainly not as damaging as something like Iraq was
Ive said i see the SNP asa threat which means i dont think the union is completly safe in the future. However if we look at all available evidence at this moment its reasonable to say the SNP will fail to win independence
Look Brit watcher while i admire your tenacity to a certain degree.I would like to tell you that i am not a movie critic and consequently i do not care about your critique in connection to Braveheart!I am interested in Independence and as things stand Scotland is winning.Progress is being made as we speak and long may it continue!
Your "worries about the union" are only going to increase! I repeat once more we shall see what happens .I remain confident! Saor Alba
Don't worry alba4232, you can always quote Godwin's Law to those who revert to the whole SNP/BNP thing. Google it, but it basically says that when someone calls you a Nazi during an online discussion they pretty much automatically lose the argument.
Perhaps u should read what i said craig, i never called a SNP supporter a Nazi or that the SNP are extremists like the BNP. All i said was both parties fill a void and corrupt minds.
"[It] create[s] a void for the SNP and their supporters to infiltrate and corrupt minds, the BNP do the same sort of thing here"
You are implying they are the same as they use the same 'tactics'.
But seriously, 'infiltrate and corrupt minds'. You really need to head down to the funny farm. We're proposing the end of the union, not demanding that all our schoolchildren are fed a daily dose of porn and heroin. You need to lighten up and understand that other views can be valid
You are seeking the destruction of a sovereign state, im sorry but you do use the same sort of tactics as the BNP in some cases by brainwashing young peoples minds. Political parties use similar tactics, it doesnt mean they have the same policies.
The only person whose mind has been Brainwashed here is yours !You can continue spouting this nonsense if you wish to!The only one who is being discredited are you and you alone.Stop being foolish!As for Tactics have a look at your unionist Parties and you will most certainly find the parallells you are looking for! Saor Alba
The United Kingdom is a sovereign state, everybody in this country has the rights they do because of this country. I have no problem with the state ensuring people learn to take pride in the country and defend it, whilst always allowing freedom of opinion.. i dont suggest banning the SNP and hunting down those with separatist views :)
But the problem is we have allowed a void by not teaching people about the good the UK does, all other countries teach patriotism, we sadly stopped after Empire
You could say we are looking to create a new sovereign state. Sounds a little different eh. You could argue the same about England in 1707 - they attempted to bring about the destruction of a sovereign state. Or were they simply trying to create a new sovereign state?
Couching it in negative terms is pandering to the lowest common denominator.
No, we don't try to 'brainwash' young people. We attempt to persuade people of all ages. Just as the major Brit Nat parties do.
We also do not go around bribing 15 commisioners to sign away Scottish sovereignty!We would also let the people have there say!Which this union has never done!We are the people !We will decide!Progress and a better Scotland that is what we want!Oh and we want the Scottish people to have a say unlike the unionists although a lot of them would favour a referendum to!That must be said for the sake of fairness! Saor Alba!
Can you tell me at what point in history did the people of what is now Scotland vote for it to become Scotland? NEVER. The truth is the United Kingdoms formation was slightly more democratic than Scotlands formation.. atleast there was a bloody vote, even if some were corrupt.
When the majority of Scots vote for the separatists, u can have a referendum.. i fail to see why one is needed before that is the case.
When the majority of Scots vote for the separatists, u can have a referendum.. i fail to see why one is needed before that is the case.
**********
Why do you find this so hard to understand? Voting for a unionist party does not a unionist make. Many, many people who vote for unionist parties would vote for independence, but would never consider voting for the SNP. You keep spouting this nonsense because you know I am right - you're simply afraid to accept it due to the consequences.
Ofcourse some who vote for unionist parties want independence, just as some who vote SNP dont want independence, especially in 2007 as many wanted to punish labour and lib dems were in coalition with them.
However if people care about independence, they are stupid to vote for a unionist party. Its commonsense, the SNP the only major party seeking independence got 35% of the vote, but 60% voted for unionist parties.
We do not have to hold a referendum for a minority government like the SNP
What do you mean 'we do not have to hold a referendum'? You have no say on the matter - you don't live here and you don't have a vote here. The simple fact is, if the people want their say on the matter they will have their say. It's probable that the Libs will cave on this issue (surprise surprise) because their membership will, in the main, demand it. Then we will have our referendum. If we lose then so be it. If we win then that is the end of your union. Simples.
Scotland is part of my country. when i used the term we, i meant all of us as a country including you. The British government doesnt have to hold a referendum for a minority view like independence.
The SNP have no mandate for seeking the break up of the United Kingdom. 35% voted for them but 60% voted for parties that strongly oppose the break up of the United Kingdom.
The Lib dems as a party are still supportive of United Kingdom as are their MSPs, which is who have the say in parliament :)
So if the Lib Dem membership demand a referendum do you really think the leadership is going to stand up to them? Remember, these are Lib Dem politicians - completely and utterly spineless.
lol well i agree with ur last comment on them being completly and utterly spineless and they wouldnt directly stand up to their members, what theyd do is complain about the wording, or push for a 3rd option on the ballot etc. rather than just ignoring their membership..
Yes, 70% of the Lib Dem Scottish membership is supportive of the union - but almost 100% of their membership is supportive of grass roots democracy. The party can't have it both ways - they have to have referenda even if they think they might lose.
lol but the lib dems are always like that, they do believe in democracy and yet they refuse to support a refereundom on the Lisbon treaty and theyd be unhappy if the British people voted to withdraw from the EU.
Have you never heard of natural development!Scotland the same as any other Nation... Holland, Denmark England .etc developed!That means it became!There was no vote required as it was a natural happening.The act of union was not!31 commisioners 15 of which were bribed signed away Scottish independence!Riots took place in towns and citys in response! I repeat......The People of Scotland have never been asked! FACT! Saor Alba !
lmfao, ahh ok so Scotland and England devoloped which is fine, but the United Kingdom devolpment is unacceptable because people didnt get a vote? talk about double standards
The Kingdom of Great Britain developed over time, it started off with a Scottish monarch becoming the King of England in 1603. Our union flag was designed for that Scottish King, 100 years later a monarch of his blood saw England and Scotland join together in union
Scotlands unification was violent, so dont overplay riots
His peskiness on here again spouting utter garbage.Why don't you just write blablablablablabla!Of course it is unacceptable when commisioners are bribed and blackmailed to sign away Scottish independence!You are the one claiming that such occurences are natural!The people of Scotland have a democratic right to a referendum .Not only because of what happened then but because there is a clear mandate shown in many polls in recent years and wether you like it or lump it it is the peoples right!
the point is atleast there was a vote, Scotland wanst formed by a vote (even a bribed one) and yet you dont question Scotlands existence.
I have said on many occasions, ofcourse the people of Scotland must be given a vote if the majority of voters vote for a party whos policy it is to hold a referendum or withdraw from the UK. But all the elections so far see people voting for parties that wont hold a referendum and break up the UK, so dont be suprised if theres no referendum :)
In 1707 England and Scotland stopped being sovereign states, which is why plenty of people both sides of the border were pretty unhappy about it.
However the UK has been a sovereign state for 300 years, (longer than the USA has been a country), there for ofcourse its right we defeat those who seek the destruction of our country.. its unacceotable. The BNP do use similar methods, i said that before
You are separatists, your separatists views shouldnt be promoted in schools. Its dangerous
Our 'seperatist' view isn't promoted in schools. Scottish history and culture is (sometimes). But you would accept that an SNP minister is a perfectly acceptable person to open a new school. Or would you argue that they are simply trying to warp the minds of our youngsters and should be kept away from our education system, despite the fact they run it?
Lol ofcourse a SNP minister for education may open a school, although im worried about their influence over Scottish education. Schools certainly shouldnt be promoting the separatist view in schools but in some cases this may be happening.
Id rather a separatist not incharge of the education system, but will have to wait for the SNP to lose their limited control for that to haappen.
You would like to have rather a lot of things wouldn't you?However I am sorry to inform you it ain't gonna happen!Away and get yourself a job or something!STOP boring everyone....YAWN!
of course bla bla SNPbla bla minister blabla "worried" blabla schools blabla seperatist blabla incharge blabla education bla bla lose control haha boring and arrogant zzzzzzzzz sorry but you deserve no better response for all this trash Saor Alba!
Going round in circles I think is what i called it !As to biased we are usually the ones that have to listen to the biased stuff!So I am pleased to hear you feel affected for a change!As to referendums they are a fundamental democratic right and should be encouraged when and as necessary.The 35 % you keep banging on about are more than enough to bring about a referendum as it shows clearly that people are dissatisfied with the current state of affairs! Saor Alba
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Im sorry but 35% is not enough to justify a referendum with the intention on destroying our United Kingdom. The biggest issue possible for a referendum needs majority support for it to be justified
And tell me what happens once we hold a referendum?
If you lose with only about 40% of the vote what will you do? if you lose with 30%? or 49%? And what happens if you win with a small majority say 1000 and a low turnout? The next government may choose to hold a second referendum to keep the union
All these figures you keep on spouting are pretty irrelevant !Fact is there is a strong demand within Scotland to have a referendum !The principle should be that democracy be served in connection to this issue.That means in my opinion that a referendum should be held every 15-20 years!We were never asked wether we want to be part of your union and consequently for the sake of democracy" if nothing else" we should be asked now! Alba gu brath!
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Lmfao, and there you have it. Even though we would win a referendum and the union would survive you and other separatists like you would not be happy and simply want one again in a decades time.
There for its pointless to even hold one when the SNP only have 35% of the vote. If they get a majority then one should be held, but not until then sorry.
Then you and your lot should give us the referendum if you are so cocky about winning it! As to having one every twenty years!I think that is more than reasonable!Considering we have been in it for three hundred without ever having been asked!
As to pointless!I think providing people with real democracy is never "pointless"! Alba gu brath!
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You have never once been asked if you want Scotland to be a country so dont give me this crap about never having a say on the union. The people of Scotland have the ability to vote for a separatist SNP and the majority dont.
Whats the point in holding a referendum if when you lose you simply want another one in a decades time? we aint having regular referendums on our status as a country just because 35% of the voters voted for the SNP. Its unacceptable.
The country you talk about is England!My country is Scotland and when 35% show that they are discontent then I believe that is more than enough to justify a referendum!Apart from that i note how you fail to mention the number of undecided when you recite your so called polls!The same people could hold the key in a referendum and "you" as do others know it! Saor Alba
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I dont usually go on about polls, i talk about facts (how people vote) and im sorry but 35% is not a big enough minority to spark a vote on our entire countrys future.. its unacceptable and isnt going to happen.
The country i talk about is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Its a country, sovereign state recognized around the world. Its a member of the UN security council, a leading member of the European Union and NATO,.
Regardless if it is in Gaelic my nations native tongue one thing is certain the Scottish people were unaware until the 30yr limited was passed thanks to the FOI act the campaign couldn't be more stronger to secure our independance if it works for other foreign Independant Countries then am Damn sure it could work for Scotland
jimrogan 4 days ago in playlist McCrone report
Yes, independence for Scotland...if the English could vote we would vote for an Independent Scotland too..... But I fear that the Scots will go with opinion polls and vote against........if you are Scottish and read this please spread the word to go for Independence...........please!!!!
Juneaugold123 1 week ago
Exposes the lies and deception brilliantly. Independence for Scotland!
alanski2005 1 month ago
A truly brilliant peice of journalism.
1966thewallace 1 month ago
IdTreo Alba Nua Ta Bealach Nios Fhearr Ann IdTreo Alba Nua. There is a better way towards a new Scotland.
I'm Scottish but I know Irish Gaelic (what irony).
ConchurMacUait1 3 months ago
I live in England but I find it very upsetting how millions and millions of Scottish people have been lied to and cheated over decades. Programmes like these should not be restricted to be shown on regional TV but also in England. What has happened is nothing short of scandalous and this should be taught in schools as part of history!
siolpaire 3 months ago
Whilst this is a real eye opener and wonderful reporting, I feel sad, even emotional that millions of Scots have been lied to, cheated and robbed to fund the Westminster machine.
Now is the time for the Scots revolution to gain complete Independence from this one sided union.
If we dinna take this opportunity Scotland will continue to be raped and plundered by England.
massacre65 4 months ago 3
@massacre65 i'm all for an independent Scotland, if that's what you want, but you don't need to make up lies about England and the nonexistent English government in the making
SonicGeneration 2 months ago
@SonicGeneration I haven't made up any lies man - watch the bloody video - it is a factual account of how Scotalnd has been cheated by the Westminster Government.
massacre65 2 months ago 4
NEWSNET SCOTLAND for the truth
TheGd1314 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I like how nobody in Scotland can understand this vid without the subtitles. Bloody teuchters.
TheXand19 4 months ago
go n-éirí an táth libh go leir thaill in hAlba!! Tacaiocht mór ó Éire! Dia dhiabh.
Best of luck to you all over in Scotland! Solidarity and support from Ireland! God bless.
ColossalCollapse 6 months ago
Fantastic documentary
maddogmcglinchey 9 months ago
Irish republicans = Violent bigots
Scottish and Irish nationalists= Heros in the fight against English domination.
ConCon75 10 months ago 3
@ConCon75 not not that simple concon, Theobald Wolfe Tonne was a prodestant and probally one of the most renowned Irish Republicans.
ColossalCollapse 6 months ago
I as a young child recall my father being followed by plain clothes men, all because he wished independance and that was in the 1950's. Him being a civil servant never helped his promotion prospects either. This is the truth of the days inthe 50's and 60's you will never see anything documented regarding the exploits and dirty tricks of the 'unionist movement'. To thisday I will never forgive what is and has been done to my nation and its people.
banniai1 1 year ago 6
There is no doubt scottish culture and our heritage will flourish and grow and be celabrated when scotland is independent! In the world we live in and everybody elses culture surviving through there own independent nation and i think you will see other countries opting for the same!! To be FREE! Most of us on this planet dream of being set free from the different chains that bined us! just not UNIONists
Alastairbell 1 year ago 4
Yes brits should leave eire! As my fam are irishscot! But scotland has to take a different path than our irish brothers!! I want us to achieve independence without it stained with innocent blood! I dont want terrorism connected to our freedom! in the past yes we tried through bloodshed! But now the world we live in has changed and peoples mentalities have changed to! We will achieve our identity and show the world how its done! Saor alba!!
Alastairbell 1 year ago 3
hopefully scottish independence would open the door to the brits leaving eire
tiocfaidh ar la
STPATSCM92 2 years ago
Bidh Alba saor, oir cha bhi sinn a' feitheamh!
steaphris 2 years ago
Saor Alba, Saor Éire!
IrishFoodHunter 2 years ago 5
It is the most important question in Scottish politics today and because they know their 'arguments' are failing the unionists are running a mile from any referendum!
freescotlandnow 2 years ago 2
Tripe. The SNP are a minority Government who had the Edinburgh trams forced through by the unionist parties. To expect their entire manifesto to be put through in that position is utterly ridiculous.
freescotlandnow 2 years ago
an-seo, anns an Argentina, i support the referendum for a free Alba. tha mi dochas saorsa air Alba!! Alba gu Brath!!
alejandromatheson 2 years ago 5
No, they've fullfilled most of their manifesto pledges and are working towards completeing the rest. 90 something pledges and 60 something fulfilled..... Independence is the only proper choice for Scotland. We fight every day in order to try and keep our culture, history, language and the essence of who we are alive. The English Government will never give the focus needed to get Scotland out of the pit as they have their own priorities to worry about. Free Scotland means more of a voice.
hafpipe 2 years ago 33
I support independence for Scotland. However, independence is no guarantee that all of Scottish culture will survive into the future. That depends on policies after independence is gained...if that happens.
steaphris 2 years ago
@hafpipe 94 Main Pledges, 84 Fulfilled :)
davidadamson9640 6 months ago
@davidadamson9640 . I well remember Tony Blair bringing out his pledge card,when they won in '97 - it had 5 promises on it they pledged to achieve in the 1st term. New Labour,the nation's great hope after 18 years of Tories,couldn't even fulfill the 5 pledges (whatever the hollow promises were,can't recall now).
DrZeppo 2 months ago
@hafpipe Well said mate. 2 years after your comment the SNP delivered well over 80 of their 90
albabhoy81 3 months ago 2
And who says the SNP will be in power for ever in an independent Scotland?
Under independence, Scotland would be a normal functioning multiparty democracy with free and fair elections. Any number of parties would be able to form the government.
Unlike now, Scotland would have a normal political culture totally different to the weird parallel universe that exists now in Scottish politics. Even the Tories would have a better shout at forming the government than now...
globaltraveller 2 years ago 4
yes good that u pointed that out
Alba12349 2 years ago
Yes you are right they do understand that there is more ,far more.However the majority of them still seem to opt for Independence when here!Hmmm?Wonder why?I'll tell you why it is because the union offers little when it comes to progress,change and future.Independence does.Apart from that they see the SNP delivering policies which serve them.Something quite uncommon with the unionists. Saor Alba
alba4232 2 years ago 3
No we are not because a high percentage of them vote SNP.You see,unlike yourself they have open minds and open eyes .They most often see quite clearly what is wrong in Scotland and draw the correct conclusions. INDEPENDENCE
alba4232 2 years ago 4
AYE right and the earth is flat and pigs can fly !Get a life! INDEPENDENCE
alba4232 2 years ago 2
It's alright Captain Mannering don't worry!I've told him to go and watch Monty pythons "department of arguments"!!Just hope the troll takes the hint and recognizes his reflection within the said video!Never thought I would end up arguing so much with a troll on you tube!I
like the bit aboot puttin the heid in by the way!
alba4232 2 years ago 4
I can't believe I'm about to stick up for a British Nat-but at least British Watcher is up front and honest with his argument and he is not offensive. He allows the argument to take place. Whatever we might think he sees Britain as one country and all his arguments are based on that. I don't agree with him and I don't like the way he posts an essay everytime to take over the whole comments page, but at least he/she's not 2 faced like the 'I'm Scottish and British' lot... at least I don't think!!
RobQos 2 years ago
lol thank you RobQos for those comments =)
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
And I just noticed that your from england. mate stay out of scottish politics. this is about our existance and our future.
Alba12349 2 years ago 2
I also agree with this comment!Well said RobQos!He is tenacious and I also admire that!However just like you i cannot understand the lengths he goes to on the essay side!:) :)Mind you I am not doing to badly myself on that front recently :) :)
Wonder why??? Slainte
alba4232 2 years ago 3
That might have been for Holyrood elections. It's 37 to 25 for SNP in the Euros and 36 to 27 for Westminster. Although I don't think we should be too complacent. There are still a lot of people to persude. I find it astonishing that a quarter of Scots are willing to vote for a party that would readily take us into illegal wars. A party that have lost their morals when it comes to nuclear and supporting ordinary people while backing big business. The party of dirty tricks and corruption.
RobQos 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It is strange how loyal many people in Scotland are to labour, its the same with places like the North East of England, for some reason people are still prepared to support them.
As for the polls, labours decline is huge and i hope that labour is so damaged next week it does force an early election. Labour are going to be slaughtered in the local english elections aswell as european ones.
Whilst the polls are very good for the SNP, let us not forget its about 60% for unionist parties
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
bullshit. take your unionist propaganda somewhere else.
Alba12349 2 years ago 3
You separatist, Scotland is part of my country. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, there for i wont stay out of politics which directly impacts on me.
You tell me to take my unionist propaganda else? this video is separatist propaganda, pushing a one sided point of view.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
"Scotland is part of my country" fuck off. Scotland has existed longer than the union and england. we are our own country and you dont have anything to do with it. so fuck u and the union
Alba12349 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Scotland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It is part of my country, this is undisputed fact and i have a passport to prove it.
Alba, look i can understand u wanting independence and ofcourse its for the people of Scotland to decide their future, but this idea u can try and say that Scotland isnt part of the UK which is my country is silly and pathetic.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
@Alba12349 Typical Scottish bigot - loves to insult England and 'English dominance' but never actually gives facts. You nationalists are fools, the lot of you :)
SonicGeneration 2 months ago
@SonicGeneration
what are you on about you english prick. I commented on this video
2 years ago. But if I offended you in some way then good.
Alba12349 2 months ago 2
@SonicGeneration of course we are..every one of us.....jog on
taighsolais 2 months ago
So true
alba4232 2 years ago
Euro
SNP: 37% (+17%) Labour: 25% (-1%)
RobQos 2 years ago
Westminster
SNP: 36% (+18%) Labour: 27% (-13%)
RobQos 2 years ago
It's braw tae see these figures!
Thanks for posting! INDEPENDENCE!!!!!!
alba4232 2 years ago 29
As a ICM poll for the Sunday Telegraph puts the Labour party in third
place across the UK for both Westminster and the European elections
which will be held this week the SNP published an analysis of the
Scottish samples of all polls in May which shows that this week's
contest is a clear two horse race between the SNP and Labour.
RobQos 2 years ago
The analysis shows the SNP has enjoyed a 9% swing from Labour in the
European poll of polls and an even greater swing of 16% in the
Westminster poll of polls.
RobQos 2 years ago
Scottish Independence is on the way people. It is just a matter of time. All the people at the Tory and the Labour conference are old people from an era where maybe the union was a good idea. The world wars for example.
However, since the end of the war there has been no positve case for the union and especially in the last 30 years the unionists have used lied like hell about Scotland. The west coast Labour mafia have and are still using every dirty trick to keep Scotland in the union.
RobQos 2 years ago 2
Because their political lives depend on it. Look how much extra money they can get on expenses being at Westminister instead of Holyrood. They then go into the house of Lords unelected by the people. They can even break the law and go in there or break the law while they are in there. No wonder Scottish politicians are so desperate to keep Scotland joined to England.
And Scottish media faithfully back them all the way. Never questioning them. Covering up stories, concealing the truth.
RobQos 2 years ago
Diverting attention from the things that really matter. Look at Labour and the media desperatly trying to get Kenny Macaskill sacked at the moment. A great diversion from their collegues who are ALL OVER the papers down south for their expenses.
Well there is a more positive route for Scotland and we are slowly but surely taking it. The SNP has a great mix of people and the number of young members is growing all the time.
RobQos 2 years ago
t's also a broad church with lots of political views but they all have one aim. Also the young Scottish Parliamentarians are overwhelmingly in favour of Independence. Its on the way people.
RobQos 2 years ago
Actually the last report i saw on the "Scottish youth parliament" didnt say that the overwhelming majority supported independence. I think ull find they failed to get 50% needed to put independence in their manifesto. Sure the % for keep the union was smaller, but thats plenty of undecided who do not favour independence.
Also just because the current bunch of young people may support independence more, doesnt mean it will always be the case, it is possible to restore British identity for people
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
You are right about the BNP being a broad church with lots of political views.. ofcourse that plays to our advantage because you can be divided on matters.
Especially the EU and NATO, something many SNP supporters have differing views on.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
The media has been focusing on any mp thats been breaking rules. the Scottish media may focus on Scottish members of parliament but that is just the same as the souths BBC news channel focusing on Southern MPs. Its not like the BBC and other Scottish media have only been attacking the SNP
As for the great mix of people, its true the SNP is managing to corrupt alot of young peoples minds but thats nothing new. People do and think silly things when theyre young, Jack Mcconnell joined SNP at 16
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
The house of Lords is going to be gone in a few years anyway so that really isnt very important anymore as for expenses i think ull find the European ones are far worse but thats no reason to withdraw from the EU as u seek to bail from westminister.
As for the scottish media the majority are rightfully against separatism. Imagine how ud feel about some media in an independent Scotland seeking to break up Scotland too. The UK is a sovereign country
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
As for the media backing the up all the way and never questioning, i think the fact this video was aired on the BBC several times goes to show they are not covering everything up.
The SNP get treated fairly, they could trash the SNP the way they do the BNP which really does get negative media coverage round the clock
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
HMmm well thank you im glad that you accept the union may of been a good idea in the past. Sadly today people think we live in a peaceful and perfect world and there are no risks.
2 decades ago people would never of thought the cold war was going to end, how can we be sure what kind of world is just around the corner?
The SNP dont want Scotland to be part of NATO, totally disregarding an alliance that has helped keep europe free for 60 years + they were anti nuclear before the cold war ended
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
even now universally agreed upon. Particularly the origin of the scots which most archeological evidence suggests arrived at the same time roughly in scot as in ireland and there was a p/q celtic split in scot from an earlier period than previously thought. this is beside the point to bring up a point such as no vote on scotland is quite frankly preposterous. I think you'll find most people, particularly the english themselves see an 'english' empire in reality rather than utopian 'british'.
rosbrog 2 years ago 2
The fact remains Rosbrog, there was no vote on Scotland becoming a country. As alba has put it before Scotland "developed" like other nations. I dont understand why the United Kingdom can not be seen to of "developed" as well.
It all simply depends on your point of view. Today i see no reason why Scottish identity is any more valid than British identity. Its a matter of choice how we identity ourselves. I think of myself as British. The Empire is known as the British Empire, not an English one
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
You miss the point britwatcher. I couldn't care if scotland was far more succesful after union, incidentallt the enlightenment, scientific advances etc are in no way intrinsically tied to union however much you protest. He who takes the shilling whilst his own culture is extirpated is not worthy of the name scottish or whatever nationality they are.
No vote on scotland, i find some of the dark age history fascinating but how the picts, britons, scots, angles and norse formed scotland is not
rosbrog 2 years ago 2
Its simple fact Rosbrog, Scotland was in economic crisis before the union and yet after it Scotland went through its greatest era in history. Its economic success was certainly tied with the unon, especially during the period of the Industrial revolution which benefited Scottish cities and 10,000s of Scottish families who moved south for work
There was no european union back then or free trade. The union with England which created the Kingdom of Great Britain opened up huge markets for Scotland
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
he probably doesnt.
by the way, you forgot to mention the armed police, who are also terrorists.
iamthestig1 2 years ago
Comment removed
alba4232 2 years ago
This is very, very simple regarding britishwatcher and johnbull123 (by the name i assume quite naturally that you are english).
After centuries of fighting off english imperialistic advances our politicians sold us down the river in the face of bribery and threats.
You are english (i.e. the opressors) I don't judge english people nowadays like that but your insistance on promoting the imperialist agenda classes you as such an english person.
Only scottish people should have a say on this.....
rosbrog 2 years ago
England and Scotland did fight for many centuries, England suffered at the hands of invaders in the past aswell. However Scotland and Englands parliaments voted to unite our nations to create the Kingdom of Great Britain.
Now you can be unhappy about the way it formed (although it was FAR more democratic than the way Scotland herself was formed, atleast there was a vote for Great Britain). But history shows Scotlands greatest era in history happened AFTER that union, not before
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
I repeat !31 commisioners 15 of whom were bribed to sign the treaty of union!The people of Scotland were and have never been asked wether they want to be in this union!As to your somewhat utopian views concerning democracy!If you believe that this provokes me you are wrong!People know what went on and they understand it!You are the guys that don't allow free speech on your postings you won't even allow a vote!So do not even attempt to ex-plain democracy to others!SAOR ALBA
alba4232 2 years ago 2
Sorry Alba but there was still a vote on it by the Scottish parliament, is England to blame if some in that parliament were corrupt? As i have asked you several times before.
Please can you tell me when the people of what is now Scotland voted for Scotland to become a country? Its simple fact the union was more democratically formed than Scotland herself was.
You shrug that off by saying "Scotland developed" well so did the UK but i notice you are only crying about one of the two.. not both
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
I believe that England was to blame for the bribery that took place!I never made any apologies for the traitors who sold there own country into this so called union!As to your question concerning "democratic"I have answered that to the point of exhaustion!I will not repeat it again !You are the one who has a somewhat distorted understanding of democracy in this regard ! INDEPENDENCE!
alba4232 2 years ago 2
England and Scotland were weak european nations until they united and went onto form one of the greatest empires in human history, responsible for creating more democracies than any other country on record
We should remember the past but we have to move on. Its not like English people lived in luxury whilst everyone in Scotland suffered.. life was hard for most no matter what side of the border
Also dont forget who started the unification of England and Scotland. it was a Scottish King in 1603
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
Again this is your opinion!The great empire you speak of was for feeding the rich and depriving the poor!Which democracies do you speak of name some?As to moving on "we the Scots"are characters like yourself are the ones with the problem when it comes to moving on!In connection to suffering I agree to an extent!Your history teacher however obviously failed to inform you that Elizabeth the1 sat on the throne in 1603 after having beheaded Mary queen of SCOTS!
alba4232 2 years ago 2
I think you will find that the Scottish King took the throne of England in 1603 and wanted to unite his kingdoms but wasnt able to because it was unpopular and opposed in England and Scotland. Even so he had the union flag made which has remained our nations flag for 300+ years.
Its true most British people never saw the wealth of empire, but the employment created because of it was important and that wealth allowed us to defend our nation from foreign invaders.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
Mary Queen of Scots was put on trial for treason and executed over 15 years before 1603. Queen Elizabeth I of England was on the throne long before that execution of Mary. Marys son James, was the Scottish King that later sat on the English throne and laid the foundations for our United Kingdom.
As for naming some of the democracies? Lmfao, get a map. How about Australia and Canada? How about our involvement in India which led to the creation of the worlds most populated democracy.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
Elizabeth sat on a throne that was not hers!As to the trial and execution of Mary I note how once again you fail to mention the injustice thereof!As to your aealier remark concerning James !Elizabeth sat on the throne until march 1603 she was then succeeded by James who was basically English raised to suit! As far as I am aware the "union of the crowns"did take place in 1603!It is at least the officially recognized figure!Anyway I believe in today not yesteryear!INDEPENDENCE!
alba4232 2 years ago 2
Ofcourse i dont find terrorists amusing, i find you separatists funny though :)
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
2 trying to make the SNP look as sleazy and rotten as the Tories or the Labour Party just won't work!The SNP's track record to date concerning "Scandal" of any sort has been nigh on impeccable!
So awa an bile yer heid !Or at least try to be somewhat more intelligent in your argumentation! Independence NOW !
alba4232 2 years ago
There are 600 labour, Lib dem and Conservative MPs. There are currently only 7 SNP members of parliament.. do you not think the SNP has a slight advantage of not having rotten eggs because it has so few MPs?
As for the Scottish parliament having cleaner rules, it does but lets not forget those rules were voted in with a unionist majority.. Its not like the SNP imposed those rules on cheating unionists.
Long live the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
No I don't think they have any advantage because on average you will find that the SNP has plenty of MSP's MEP's MP's and also councillors and other elected members and when you look back in time you will find that there have been very few if any that have been caught up in scandal of any sorts!Considering that they have been monitored closely by MI5 since the 1930's .I find this track record impeccable and also astonishing! INDEPENDENCE
alba4232 2 years ago
sorry but you fail to accept the fact theres more chance of rotten eggs being in a party when they have 100s of seats rather than just 7. Thats obviously going to be the case and even some of the SNPs claims are questionable. We are talking about the westminister system not MEPs, MSPs etc
Ofcourse such a separatist party was monitored in the 1930s, thats one of the problems with this film it puts nothing into context. All parties which could of threatened the state like communists were watched
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
They were not merely monitiored in the thirties as you well know!They were monitored right into the 60's and 70's and one would have to be naive to believe that is not still going on!As to acceptance I do accept the rule of average!However you failt to accept that the SNP'strack record despite being monitored is nigh on impeccable in connection to Scandal!This also applies to Wastemonster wether you like it or lump it!People can see it so who cares what you think!
alba4232 2 years ago 2
It was a different world just a few short decades ago, i very much doubt the security services monitor the SNP today although id quite like them to. ANy dirt they could release on salmond would be helpful :). It seems strange we spend billions defending this country from foreign threats yet allow someone like salmond to encourage its total destruction but do nothing.
I dont think MI5 monitoring the SNP in 1970 would see the need to inform people they were fiddling their expenses.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
You are a great twister Britwatcher!The services you refer to probably still are doing the moonitoring!As to your wishes if they could find something then I am sure they would release it!Because they are just as desperate as you to destroy what is good for Scotland!
alba4232 2 years ago 2
1: Firstly i think you should really take a look at the expenses that others have accumalated!Secondly he is well within his means according to the statutesAs is Robertson!Thirdly in Scotland we have a system in place where that sort of rot doesn't go on!And finally!The same Salmond who you try to slag puts the whole salary he is entitled to receive from Wastemonster into a charitable trust!The sum amounts to ca £132.000!He does so out of principal!
alba4232 2 years ago
As for Mr Salmonds westminister salary, how ever nobale of him to send it to charity ofcourse perhaps it would be better if he let someone else have his seat to do his job rather than be greedy and having two constituency seats aswell as being first minister.
Is he worried that a different SNP MP might not get as much votes as he does? Its clear from voting patterns that Salmond is able to do far better than the overwhelming majority of SNP members. Hes a popular guy we all know that = )
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
Mr Salmond is merely doing what Wastemonsters statutes allow him to do in regard to these matters!However giving his salary to charity is something that I think you will find few examples of at Wastermonster!As to his reasons I am sure he has them:) :) ! INDEPENDENCE
alba4232 2 years ago 3
Couldn't agree more! Saor Alba!
alba4232 2 years ago
North Sea oil has only been an issue for 40 years, so the UK lasted 240 years before Scotland started contributing North sea Oil.
We can look at the figures and see that Scotland has done very well out of the union in certain years. It is simply impossible for you to say that Scotland has paid in more to the union over 300 years than its got out of it. Scotland was in economic crisis before it joined with England, decades later there was a big thing called the Scottish Enlightenment
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
Ofcourse all countries put out propaganda, they dont want to allow separatist movements or revolutionary movements which threaten the state.
Thats one of the things i object about in this film, it talks about the security services spying on scottish separatists.. they fail to put it into context that at that period all such movements were watched, people were worried of revolutions.
Its clear this program is biased because it asks noone for comment to defend what they did or said.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
You are more than something else.You feel quite comfortable watching the union government putting explosives in the Hands of young men merely to discredit the political opposition!At the best that is undemocratic at worst it is .............!As to bias the only one biased here are you this video is disclosing facts no more no less .....What CAN be said to counter it?....Wait I'll answer that myself....NOTHING! Saor Alba
alba4232 2 years ago
Lol, the country and indeed the world was rather different back then. Im sorry but its biased because it doesnt allow anyone to counter the claims. I dont know the full details of the case when it comes to the explosives plot, but im sure they could come up with some excuse :)
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
Lmfao, im sorry but this England and Scotland have been united for 300 years, if one of the two has taken more money than the other i think you will find it wasnt England taking from Scotland.
Look at the Scottish budget in detail, you can see Scotlands expenditure and revenue.. Scotland isnt being ripped off. The Scottish government website controlled by separatists now even shows all revenue from north sea oil too.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
Tell me Brit watcher!Are you of this world?Have you still not listened to what has been disclosed here?You are starting to become a nuisance nothing more nothing less .You are going round in circles and talking trash.Sorry I have tried to argue reasonably as can be seen but you ignorance is simply beyond question as far as i am concerned!
alba4232 2 years ago
Had it not been for the revenue from North sea oil your union would have been forced to declare bankruptcy and start printing inflationary money in 1980!Scotland from the beginnig of this union has been paying away above the odds in more than one way!Fisheries agriculture and moreover industry all in decline and some even nearly gone and you dare to say Scotland has not paid?!Scotland has paid more than you will ever know boy and continues to do so!FACT not Fiction!
Awa an play in the traffic!
alba4232 2 years ago
Had it not been for the union how do you know what would of happened to the north sea? For 300 years it has been defended by the British armed forces. When Scotland and England united which country had the more powerful navy?
North sea oil is important, Scotland contributes alot to the union just as each part of the UK has in our history, be it welsh coal or English blood in world wars where Englands large population was vital to keep this country free.
Your only real economic case is oil.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
No arguments left so what does the average unionist do?He reverts back to if's and buts and of course the war!As to the blood shed in those wars.How dare you claim it was only ( or more) English.Per head of population the statistics show that Scots and Welsh shed just as much if not more!As to defense I think you will find that a lot of the wars that England got involved in Scotland would never have been part of had it not been for the union!Recent example IRAK!
alba4232 2 years ago
Lmao im sorry but what i said was correct. More English men have died fighting for this United Kingdom in the last 300 years than Irish, Scottish and Welsh combined. Ofcourse thats the case as England has by far the biggest population, but its just the same as the fact most of the UKs north sea oil comes from Scotland
Blood or oil, i know which i think is more important. You say unionists revert back to Ifs and buts, i think u did one or two just then ur self, and even ofcourse the war in Iraq
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
As for your statement in connection to north sea oil being Scotlands only economic asset.You know as do the majority of people that this is simply not correct.Scotland unlike England has never accquired a trades deficit.We have many healthy industries left here in SCO despite the great loss of industrial diversity throughout the 60's 70's and 80's! Fact is this constant drain has never stopped even as we speak! Independence!!!!!! Saor Alba
alba4232 2 years ago
I never said Scotland only had one economic asset. I said that the only real economic case is oil. Meaning its only oil that aids the SNPs argument that Scotland would be better off as an independent nation, which ofcourse is still disputed.
Scotlands main trading partner is England. Now when you insult England by breaking up the UK do you think trade will grow or weaken? Do you really think the English government is going to give so many contracts to Scottish companies like First + Stagecoach
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
Things can be done at the UK level to strenghten the union over time and ofcourse the SNP will not be in limited control of parliament for ever.
Who knows, if the tories do win the next election and dont do too bad a job u may actually see some people starting to like them again in Scotland. The core areas people care about in Scotland thanks to devolution are run by the Scottish parliament, so the conservatives cant be blame for the SNPs failures to spend wisely in power. :)
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
I seriously doubt that the torie vote will increase greatly.Scotland and the people thereof have not forgotten how they betrayed us!As for the spending matter .I think you will find that the majority of people see an SNP government that is spending there money very wisely!So i doubt if blame will be required at any point soon! Saor Alba!
alba4232 2 years ago
Parties continue to change, they spend a certain period in power and then spend time out of power, its an endless cycle. Whilst i agree that the tories are far more unpopular in Scotland than they are in England, i still fail to see why opinion cant change (u said so urself a moment ago it can).
Especially as the UK government is no longer responsible for how money on things like education and health are spent. It really does take away the need for "independence". for some people.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
As for the SNP being popular and spending money wisely that may be the case now but governments become unpopular over time, it always happens and it will happen to the SNP. To think the SNP is some sort of special case would be very foolish. In time opinion of salmond and the SNP will change for the worse.
Even if we go by the SNPs polls they get excited about, it shows that the SNP is going to fail to get a majority in the Scottish parliament which means they can not introduce a referendum
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
You are gripping at straws .The SNP have been returned in nearly every seat they have taken to my knowledge and that proves just how solid they are when in government.However that does not mean that the SNP will always be in that position that is only common sense!Things do change as do Partys .Personally I hope that for Scotlands sake the SNP keep up the good work they have done up until now!As for the referendum....we shall see ! Saor Alba
alba4232 2 years ago
Several of the seats the SNP hold are with very small majorities. Lets not forget the SNP is only in power today because one SNP MSP won a majority of 48 votes. What a strong majority that MSP has lol.
When we look at the results in 2008, The SNP won one with a majority of about 350, labour held the other with a majority of 6000. Quite a difference huh? Even the SNPs deputy leader has a majority of less than 1000
Obviously i disagree with you. Long live the United Kingdom! God save OUR Queen
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
As has already been said you are gripping at straws.The trend is clear and like it or lump it the people are waking up to what has and still is going on!Had the union you speak of been fair and had it been honest and straight then the vote for the SNP would maybe never have become necessary! I respect your effort to defend "your so called union" eventhough I do not agree at all!As for the majoritys they may be small in some cases however it seems they are growing rapidly!
alba4232 2 years ago
Ive accepted there is a growing trend and i do consider it a huge threat to this country that must be tackled, but it is still a small movement at the moment, there is no widespread demand or support for independence, as reflected in all opinion polls and as shown in polls embraced by the SNP themselves.
We will have to wait and see in 2010 how the SNP do and 2011 or when the next Scottish parliament election is. But in 2010 the SNP hope to get 20 Scottish MPs. that is still less than half.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
I am pleased to hear that you accept the growing trend.However unlike you I do not see or understand it as a threat but farmore as a blessing!Furthermore I think you will find that the SNP is more than merely a small movement in todays Scotland!As for independence and support therefore. We shall see!As with the referendum!Nothing is inevitable eventhough there is growing room for confidence concerning independence ! Saor Alba!
alba4232 2 years ago
Separatism is indeed a threat that must be crushed in time. Alot of people do not take this matter as seriously as they should, even those in politics are simply getting on with the job most of the time and rarely focusing on the independence problem which does create avoid for the SNP and their supporters to infiltrate and corrupt minds, the BNP do the same sort of thing here taking advantage of mainstream incompetence.
There is enough time to turn things around and prevent he destruction.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
Sadly you seem to have reverted to your old scaremongering ways!Short of arguments you begin to draw parallels between the SNP and the BNP.With this you simply prove that it is your mind that is corrupted!Scotland will continue to progress with or without your flawed remarks!
alba4232 2 years ago
Ofcourse the SNP and BNP are very different, the SNP isnt racist or right wing nuts. All im saying is the void which is created by the mainstream parties here in England because they havnt tackled issues like immigration has created an opening for the BNP and a way for them to corrupt peoples minds.
The same sort of thing has happened in Scotland where unionist parties havnt been defending the union as much as they should have, resulting in a void for the SNP to fill with separatist propaganda
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
What is there to defend after the revelations that have been disclosed here and elsewhere in recent years .The union is one big lye nothing else!The difference now is that people are beginning to see and understand it.However what is even more important they are beginning to act accordingly ! Saor Alba!
alba4232 2 years ago 3
lol, the unionists will not simply sit back and allow u separatists to break up the United Kingdom, it has lasted for 300 years and it will continue despite these troubled times.
polls shown by the SNP themselves clearly show over 60% of people intend to vote for unionist parties in the next election. Whilst this video is damaging (and biased) the movie braveheart creates more problems as lots of separatists love playing on Wallace and turning people against the evil English.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
No one is asking them to sit back !But as you mentioned earlier they are doing a fine job making a mess of things!As I have said before the trend is clear!However unlike you I would never be presumptious enough to state that we have won unlike you with your silly little union!The revelations disclosed in these videos are nothing short of scandalous and certainly not biased! I for one am pro Scottish and not anti anyone!! Saor Alba
alba4232 2 years ago 2
lmao, sorry but the whole film was biased putting nothing into context and giving noone the chance to defend the position or atleast comment on it. Thats bias, but i agree with u the things mentioned are damaging, but its certainly not as damaging as something like Iraq was
Ive said i see the SNP asa threat which means i dont think the union is completly safe in the future. However if we look at all available evidence at this moment its reasonable to say the SNP will fail to win independence
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
Look Brit watcher while i admire your tenacity to a certain degree.I would like to tell you that i am not a movie critic and consequently i do not care about your critique in connection to Braveheart!I am interested in Independence and as things stand Scotland is winning.Progress is being made as we speak and long may it continue!
Your "worries about the union" are only going to increase! I repeat once more we shall see what happens .I remain confident! Saor Alba
alba4232 2 years ago 2
Don't worry alba4232, you can always quote Godwin's Law to those who revert to the whole SNP/BNP thing. Google it, but it basically says that when someone calls you a Nazi during an online discussion they pretty much automatically lose the argument.
craigscot67 2 years ago
Nae worries Craigscot!Thanks for the tip though! Alba gu brath!
alba4232 2 years ago
Perhaps u should read what i said craig, i never called a SNP supporter a Nazi or that the SNP are extremists like the BNP. All i said was both parties fill a void and corrupt minds.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
BW, you said:
"[It] create[s] a void for the SNP and their supporters to infiltrate and corrupt minds, the BNP do the same sort of thing here"
You are implying they are the same as they use the same 'tactics'.
But seriously, 'infiltrate and corrupt minds'. You really need to head down to the funny farm. We're proposing the end of the union, not demanding that all our schoolchildren are fed a daily dose of porn and heroin. You need to lighten up and understand that other views can be valid
craigscot67 2 years ago 6
You are seeking the destruction of a sovereign state, im sorry but you do use the same sort of tactics as the BNP in some cases by brainwashing young peoples minds. Political parties use similar tactics, it doesnt mean they have the same policies.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
The only person whose mind has been Brainwashed here is yours !You can continue spouting this nonsense if you wish to!The only one who is being discredited are you and you alone.Stop being foolish!As for Tactics have a look at your unionist Parties and you will most certainly find the parallells you are looking for! Saor Alba
alba4232 2 years ago
The United Kingdom is a sovereign state, everybody in this country has the rights they do because of this country. I have no problem with the state ensuring people learn to take pride in the country and defend it, whilst always allowing freedom of opinion.. i dont suggest banning the SNP and hunting down those with separatist views :)
But the problem is we have allowed a void by not teaching people about the good the UK does, all other countries teach patriotism, we sadly stopped after Empire
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
BW, what a crock.
You could say we are looking to create a new sovereign state. Sounds a little different eh. You could argue the same about England in 1707 - they attempted to bring about the destruction of a sovereign state. Or were they simply trying to create a new sovereign state?
Couching it in negative terms is pandering to the lowest common denominator.
No, we don't try to 'brainwash' young people. We attempt to persuade people of all ages. Just as the major Brit Nat parties do.
craigscot67 2 years ago
We also do not go around bribing 15 commisioners to sign away Scottish sovereignty!We would also let the people have there say!Which this union has never done!We are the people !We will decide!Progress and a better Scotland that is what we want!Oh and we want the Scottish people to have a say unlike the unionists although a lot of them would favour a referendum to!That must be said for the sake of fairness! Saor Alba!
alba4232 2 years ago
Can you tell me at what point in history did the people of what is now Scotland vote for it to become Scotland? NEVER. The truth is the United Kingdoms formation was slightly more democratic than Scotlands formation.. atleast there was a bloody vote, even if some were corrupt.
When the majority of Scots vote for the separatists, u can have a referendum.. i fail to see why one is needed before that is the case.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
**********
When the majority of Scots vote for the separatists, u can have a referendum.. i fail to see why one is needed before that is the case.
**********
Why do you find this so hard to understand? Voting for a unionist party does not a unionist make. Many, many people who vote for unionist parties would vote for independence, but would never consider voting for the SNP. You keep spouting this nonsense because you know I am right - you're simply afraid to accept it due to the consequences.
craigscot67 2 years ago
Ofcourse some who vote for unionist parties want independence, just as some who vote SNP dont want independence, especially in 2007 as many wanted to punish labour and lib dems were in coalition with them.
However if people care about independence, they are stupid to vote for a unionist party. Its commonsense, the SNP the only major party seeking independence got 35% of the vote, but 60% voted for unionist parties.
We do not have to hold a referendum for a minority government like the SNP
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
What do you mean 'we do not have to hold a referendum'? You have no say on the matter - you don't live here and you don't have a vote here. The simple fact is, if the people want their say on the matter they will have their say. It's probable that the Libs will cave on this issue (surprise surprise) because their membership will, in the main, demand it. Then we will have our referendum. If we lose then so be it. If we win then that is the end of your union. Simples.
craigscot67 2 years ago 2
Scotland is part of my country. when i used the term we, i meant all of us as a country including you. The British government doesnt have to hold a referendum for a minority view like independence.
The SNP have no mandate for seeking the break up of the United Kingdom. 35% voted for them but 60% voted for parties that strongly oppose the break up of the United Kingdom.
The Lib dems as a party are still supportive of United Kingdom as are their MSPs, which is who have the say in parliament :)
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
So if the Lib Dem membership demand a referendum do you really think the leadership is going to stand up to them? Remember, these are Lib Dem politicians - completely and utterly spineless.
craigscot67 2 years ago
lol well i agree with ur last comment on them being completly and utterly spineless and they wouldnt directly stand up to their members, what theyd do is complain about the wording, or push for a 3rd option on the ballot etc. rather than just ignoring their membership..
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
Yes, 70% of the Lib Dem Scottish membership is supportive of the union - but almost 100% of their membership is supportive of grass roots democracy. The party can't have it both ways - they have to have referenda even if they think they might lose.
craigscot67 2 years ago 4
lol but the lib dems are always like that, they do believe in democracy and yet they refuse to support a refereundom on the Lisbon treaty and theyd be unhappy if the British people voted to withdraw from the EU.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
Have you never heard of natural development!Scotland the same as any other Nation... Holland, Denmark England .etc developed!That means it became!There was no vote required as it was a natural happening.The act of union was not!31 commisioners 15 of which were bribed signed away Scottish independence!Riots took place in towns and citys in response! I repeat......The People of Scotland have never been asked! FACT! Saor Alba !
alba4232 2 years ago
lmfao, ahh ok so Scotland and England devoloped which is fine, but the United Kingdom devolpment is unacceptable because people didnt get a vote? talk about double standards
The Kingdom of Great Britain developed over time, it started off with a Scottish monarch becoming the King of England in 1603. Our union flag was designed for that Scottish King, 100 years later a monarch of his blood saw England and Scotland join together in union
Scotlands unification was violent, so dont overplay riots
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
His peskiness on here again spouting utter garbage.Why don't you just write blablablablablabla!Of course it is unacceptable when commisioners are bribed and blackmailed to sign away Scottish independence!You are the one claiming that such occurences are natural!The people of Scotland have a democratic right to a referendum .Not only because of what happened then but because there is a clear mandate shown in many polls in recent years and wether you like it or lump it it is the peoples right!
alba4232 2 years ago
the point is atleast there was a vote, Scotland wanst formed by a vote (even a bribed one) and yet you dont question Scotlands existence.
I have said on many occasions, ofcourse the people of Scotland must be given a vote if the majority of voters vote for a party whos policy it is to hold a referendum or withdraw from the UK. But all the elections so far see people voting for parties that wont hold a referendum and break up the UK, so dont be suprised if theres no referendum :)
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
In 1707 England and Scotland stopped being sovereign states, which is why plenty of people both sides of the border were pretty unhappy about it.
However the UK has been a sovereign state for 300 years, (longer than the USA has been a country), there for ofcourse its right we defeat those who seek the destruction of our country.. its unacceotable. The BNP do use similar methods, i said that before
You are separatists, your separatists views shouldnt be promoted in schools. Its dangerous
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
Our 'seperatist' view isn't promoted in schools. Scottish history and culture is (sometimes). But you would accept that an SNP minister is a perfectly acceptable person to open a new school. Or would you argue that they are simply trying to warp the minds of our youngsters and should be kept away from our education system, despite the fact they run it?
craigscot67 2 years ago
Lol ofcourse a SNP minister for education may open a school, although im worried about their influence over Scottish education. Schools certainly shouldnt be promoting the separatist view in schools but in some cases this may be happening.
Id rather a separatist not incharge of the education system, but will have to wait for the SNP to lose their limited control for that to haappen.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
You would like to have rather a lot of things wouldn't you?However I am sorry to inform you it ain't gonna happen!Away and get yourself a job or something!STOP boring everyone....YAWN!
of course bla bla SNPbla bla minister blabla "worried" blabla schools blabla seperatist blabla incharge blabla education bla bla lose control haha boring and arrogant zzzzzzzzz sorry but you deserve no better response for all this trash Saor Alba!
alba4232 2 years ago
and yet you keep responding to my comments.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
Only because stupidity such as yours must be opposed!It should certainly not remain unquestioned!!
alba4232 2 years ago 2
unquestioned like in this video where its one sided and biased ya? lol
Besides, what came first the chicken or the egg. if you have to reply to my comments and i have to reply to yours we will be here for years :)
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
Going round in circles I think is what i called it !As to biased we are usually the ones that have to listen to the biased stuff!So I am pleased to hear you feel affected for a change!As to referendums they are a fundamental democratic right and should be encouraged when and as necessary.The 35 % you keep banging on about are more than enough to bring about a referendum as it shows clearly that people are dissatisfied with the current state of affairs! Saor Alba
alba4232 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Im sorry but 35% is not enough to justify a referendum with the intention on destroying our United Kingdom. The biggest issue possible for a referendum needs majority support for it to be justified
And tell me what happens once we hold a referendum?
If you lose with only about 40% of the vote what will you do? if you lose with 30%? or 49%? And what happens if you win with a small majority say 1000 and a low turnout? The next government may choose to hold a second referendum to keep the union
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
All these figures you keep on spouting are pretty irrelevant !Fact is there is a strong demand within Scotland to have a referendum !The principle should be that democracy be served in connection to this issue.That means in my opinion that a referendum should be held every 15-20 years!We were never asked wether we want to be part of your union and consequently for the sake of democracy" if nothing else" we should be asked now! Alba gu brath!
alba4232 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Lmfao, and there you have it. Even though we would win a referendum and the union would survive you and other separatists like you would not be happy and simply want one again in a decades time.
There for its pointless to even hold one when the SNP only have 35% of the vote. If they get a majority then one should be held, but not until then sorry.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
Then you and your lot should give us the referendum if you are so cocky about winning it! As to having one every twenty years!I think that is more than reasonable!Considering we have been in it for three hundred without ever having been asked!
As to pointless!I think providing people with real democracy is never "pointless"! Alba gu brath!
alba4232 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You have never once been asked if you want Scotland to be a country so dont give me this crap about never having a say on the union. The people of Scotland have the ability to vote for a separatist SNP and the majority dont.
Whats the point in holding a referendum if when you lose you simply want another one in a decades time? we aint having regular referendums on our status as a country just because 35% of the voters voted for the SNP. Its unacceptable.
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
The country you talk about is England!My country is Scotland and when 35% show that they are discontent then I believe that is more than enough to justify a referendum!Apart from that i note how you fail to mention the number of undecided when you recite your so called polls!The same people could hold the key in a referendum and "you" as do others know it! Saor Alba
alba4232 2 years ago
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I dont usually go on about polls, i talk about facts (how people vote) and im sorry but 35% is not a big enough minority to spark a vote on our entire countrys future.. its unacceptable and isnt going to happen.
The country i talk about is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Its a country, sovereign state recognized around the world. Its a member of the UN security council, a leading member of the European Union and NATO,.
Scotland is part of my country sorry
TheBritishWatcher 2 years ago
lol, you're mental aren't you.
But it doesn't really look like the SNP are going to be losing their control in the near future does it?
craigscot67 2 years ago
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