The hard assets part doesnt make much sense. How would one even go about trying to back bitcions with hard assets? There is no central authority who could even back it.
YES! we need to take it all into account. thank you for mentioning that. and about that.. what is it that drives all free markets?? competition. lower costs and adjust price for maximum profit. lowering cost -> ignore environmental efficient methods of production.. exploit workers, hours and pay... and make them live in the polluted communities you create, while you enjoy your life in the nice "pollution free" areas. yeah. free markets all balance themselves out.
Bitcoin is NOT without mining cost. But great points about costs of gold reserve banking increasing the cost of gold. The same thing is true for all commodity backed currencies. One thing you didn't cover is how fractional reserve banking is used by mega bankers to create booms and bust which they use to buy up the world and make us their slaves. That's NOT a free market IMO.
I like what Bill Still says "in order for a currency to be in the public good, it must be worthless" or close to it A
"Free market" has meant that over two billion hard working humans all over the planet struggle to survive on $2 US (or less) a day. Free market for them is delivered through the IMF and WB debt - current UN schemes directed, managed & controlled basically through US banking interests. I see this as a rapid progression of human criminality. What system of governing over 6 billion people would ensure that a dominant aggressive class of criminals would not do exactly what's transpired to this day?
What about the issue of copycat currency*. Wouldnt't other people, companies, governments just copy Bitcoin's idea? Although the government's digital currency would likely be more expensive
His denials notwithstanding, epistemologically he is an intrinsicist (a false theory of knowledge, which claims 'that universals are "intrinsic" to reality' ) which then gets converted into a bizarre dogmatic morality, where rules are for all people, at all times, under all circumstances, thereby dismissing context, which in fact conditions and qualifies all moral statements.
I appear to be watching old videos before watching new ones, and I am sometimes responding with comments that have already been addressed in newer videos, such as the issue with Bitcoins not being backed by hard assets. What I fail to understand is why anyone would trade for Bitcoins in the first place, given that they are nothing at all, they have no value other than what humans ascribe to them. Why would people not pay for my angels on heads of pins?
"The moment you have hard-assets backing up a currency, then your costs increase dramatically..." Exactly!!! That is why bitcoin is so great! No need to physically secure your bitcoin wallet (please folks, encrypt your bitcoin wallets and upload it to a server). And very small transactions costs, because there is no physical object to be moved. Thanks for your positive endorsement and explanation of bitcoin. I just sent you 1 bitcoin as a donation to your great philosophy podcasts/youtube.
@TheBadBizzle he references the argument, hes not saying its his proof. research the argument and youll see the evidence. search "seat belts make people drive less safe" and go to scienceblogs article. using google it was the fourth on down.
Currency uncoupled from hard assets is terrible for human psychology - creating a 'buffer' between people and separating us from the responsibility of our actions. As seeing, feeling, tactile, immediate beings we need to feel, tangibly, the consequences of our actions on others and our surroundings. Currency creates a gap across which morality need not cross. Responsibility becomes no longer to the people/places/things you need - and becomes only about the currency you hand over the counter.
Sorry Stefan but i cant start to explain you that all your example you are making showing the inhuman and psychopath think structure that comes out from people who praise the "GOD" money
Bitcoin still doesn't solve the REAL problems that any monetary system automatically creates: social stratification, rich and poor, technological unemployment, resource depletion and environmental pollution due to cyclical consumption, escalation of stress and working conditions, and so on... but those Free Market types simply keep ignoring that.
@brightgeistmovies If you think that money is the sole cause of all of those problems, you're just blindly ignorant (or you Zeitgeist types simply keep ignoring that! lol). You realize that after the abolishing of money in socialized states like Stalin's Russia, all of those things still happened, right?
Please, send me a PM explaining to me how IOU slips are the cause of all of that. Forgive me for being skeptical of communism redux; it impoverished and killed millions last time...
@HeyItzMeDawg : well, we're not talking about creating another "Stalin's Russia" or "communism redux". if all you can do is call the RBE "communism" and then tell us what was wrong with communism, then you apparently don't have any real arguments. because an RBE isn't communism. if you believe that, then to you an electric car is the same as a steam train, because they both are machines that can transport people and goods. if that is your complexity level of thinking, we won't get far.
but, in any case, i'm not gonna send you a PM because i want this information to be available to everyone. so here's what'd different between an RBE and communism: in an RBE, we will have several things that communism didn't have. first of all, an RBE is not centrally planned. in an RBE, every single producer, refiner, transporter, consumer (and so on) of any kind of good manages their own little "universe", just the way they do today.
@brightgeistmovies All I got out of that was a pile of assertions and a lot of misguided hope in something you can't coherently explain. I'm open to being proven wrong here, but that's why I asked you to send me a PM instead of trying to explain yourself in tiny, bite-sized chunks of 500 characters each.
Basically, you get to pick and choose all of the benefits of our current system while automagically removing any and all inconvenient problems (oh, like communism!). Forgive my skepticism...
@HeyItzMeDawg : then, second, in an RBE you can immediately start automating whatever can sensibly be automated. also, everyone whose job doesn't really contribute anything real (like bankers, insurance people, and so on) can stop doing those jobs. so with that and ongoing automation, you can continuously free people from the pointless or mundane or dangerous jobs, and they can then do whatever they want, ideally helping the ones that do relevant jobs, so that everybody needs to work less.
@HeyItzMeDawg : that way, the work load per person can very quickly be reduced to about 10% of what we have today, which (combined with the changed values that need to come before the transition into an RBE) will certainly be incentive enough for almost everyone to see the incredible benefits of this system. i mean, who in their right mind wouldn't understand that it's better to change to a system in which you work 4 hours a week and don't have to be afraid to lose your job or your home?
@HeyItzMeDawg : another important point: of course, as soon as this transition into an RBE has been made, we can immediately start helping the poor and starving people of the world establish infrastructures to feed themselves, providing them with technology like OmegaGarden and desalination systems. and as soon as everyone on the planet is provided with the necessities of life, we can start raising everyone's standard of living.
So what you are saying is, it is cheaper to live in New York city then it is to live in Manhattan, Montana because the air in Billings is cleaner? That makes zero sense, it cost 500 times more to live in polluted cities, then the fresh air country!!
are u actually serious???? New York is not Manhattan or Montana, they cannot be compared in price. He is saying that in places which are more wanted (cleaner, less polluted) will be worth more than if it had more pollution (assuming people want to live in places with less pollution).
@OhManTFE If someone were to crack the SHA-256 algorithm (unlikely), bitcoins would be in a bad state. However, other attacks on the system are prevented by the very distributed computing work that miners do to earn their coins.
@SuperMarcBot You realize that none of those things you listed are even remotely related to the definition of a pyramid scheme? In a pyramid scheme, early adopters can only profit at the expense of late adopters, because it is a win-lose system that involves taking money from one group and giving it to another.
Early investors of bitcoin can profit from the currencies rise in value. Late investors of bitcoin profit from the usefulness and stability of a widely accepted P2P currency.
@SuperMarcBot First adopters have an advantage exactly once. Contrast this to our current system where the people at the top have the same advantage, except forever. Second, nothing has inherent value. The value of an item is what someone else will trade for it, no more, no less. If someone believes that bitcoins have properties that make them useful or superior when compared to other currencies, then they have value to that person.
Perhaps I am missing something...If the value of a bit coin has risen from a few pennies each to about fifty dollars each. If I want to purchase an item will it have a minimum price say $50.00 for a pack of gum How will I get change of are there tenths and quarters of bits?As I understand it there is only around 21 million bit coins available so that would mean there is not enough for every one to possess even 1 let alone enough to own enough to buy any thing of value . not enough characters
jrspolitical... It is, because people are not informed about it... They do not know that if there was a collapse then there would not be enough money to give everybody there withdrawals... That is fraudulent, though you could argue it's down to people to research, i believe business should be honest and open, so i put the blame on the banks. Anyone can enter into any scheme they like, as long as everything is explained and understood then there is nothing morally wrong with it.
I soaked up the Greek economy video-great but this one has failed to reach me-maybe I am too old. Bitcoins as an investment are risky with what benefit, I am able to pay for most items now. And what do sellers want for bitcoins-not nothing! but hard assets will do:)
@qminusis There are more than 200 comments here plus a speaker in the video. Who are you addressing? You should be more clear when commenting. That benefits everyone, not least importantly yourself.
Stef the speaker. The bitcoin video over 40 minutes and this video does not really clear or convince me to use bitcoins. And thats free market: I and many others are not willing to be paid by digital ones and zeros called bitcoins. How can someone think that this is a solution in a world of fraud and fake money?
Comparing bitcoins and gold that way? Sorry but there is a psycological and historical aspect to it that Stefen completely ignores.
Digital money? Sounds like the aspirations and 'dreams' of the Venus Project. Digital Money is even more dangerous than a fractional reserve since its nothing but code and binary. Just as People thought voter fraud was bad, until the electronic voting came around, the same fate awaits here. I can easily see how this could evolve into a "credits" based system, much like carbon credits, but for a vast array of things.
The point is not to work out your trade-off between location value and air pollution levels. The point is to reduce all air pollution to levels that are compatible with environmental and human health.
The fact that bitcoin is not backed by real assets is its main strength. It takes banks out the equation altogether. I don't need to trust someone to look after my bitcoins - I can just read the source code.
In ignorance, we blame and run away from the true issues that are responsible for our prediciment. For example, if the mansion is a burden because of expenses, then perhaps selling it and moving into something more affordable would be wise (or perhaps renting out rooms). Likewise, if the cave is uncomfortable and we are finding an abundance of currency, perhaps selling it and moving into something more spacious would be beneficial (or renting it out and purchasing a bigger cave).
In a truly Free Market, awareness is available to all who choose it - and I believe most would doso (eventually), as the cost of ignorance is high (after all... everything balances out in a Free Market, eh?).
The more we actively participate within our soceity and economy as soveign and responsible beings, the greater level of happiness we'd experience. If a choice or system is out of alignment with what we want - we simply alter our agreements and make new ones! :-)
I fully believe that the only way society and it's economy can successfully be sustainable is for transparency to exist - thus we can all AGREE and make an aware choice whether or not we wish to participate in said agreements. When "secrets" or obfuscation exists within our essential agreements for living socially, it usually divides the classes into "Those In the Know" (ie The Rich) and "Those In Ignorance" (ie The Poor).
The question becomes - is everyone deserving of awareness?
@NemaselsNeo If one looks at money conception via our promissory obligations "ground floor "one will see money is NOT created out of thin air nor is it created as debt, A borrower is NOT really borrowing rather a borrower is the obligor that creates all principal & its the obligors obligation to retire periodic payments from circulation to defeat circulatory inflation only a bank intervenes by fraud & launders all principal on conception & all payments of exchange causing circulatory deflation.
Essentially, any currency (whether fiat or "hard-backed") is only valuable because WE COLLECTIVELY AGREE IT TO BE SO. If I were to make some clay coins with a special "N" stamped on it - would I be able to exchange it for goods and services? Probably not - as I am the only one who is using it as currency... However, if I convinced 50 local people to agree to use it as currency then we'd be exchanging it for our goods and services...
Of course, this doesn't address value or counterfeiting... :-P
I will take a look at his channel and contact him directly I think, and ask him whether he really wants to do debates like that. But yes, I'll refer to you.
Oh, "mathematically perfected economy". I found the website perfecteconomy (dot) com. The author obviously does not understand what the economy is and it all seems like a resurrection of the laughable "hydraulic economics" of past times. Everyone should really go visit that site to get see one of the better stereotypes of what it is the austrian school is rejecting.
@jrgenkratz Oh, "mathematically perfected economy". I found the website perfecteconomy (dot) com. The author obviously does not understand what the economy is and it all seems like a resurrection of the laughable
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I invite you to debate the author ? Would you like to public debate the author on TNS radio ? .I should be able to swing it for you sir.
Indeed most who falsely claim MPE is not proof of solution out or ignorance always deny public debate , SO ARE YOU UP TO IT?
@jrgenkratz Sure I will upload it on youtube so everyone can be aware of the vital matters we all need to comprehend regarding economy,I know Mike Montagne on personal level & I have nearly 200 videos on MPE on my channel good luck proving wrong that no man has done in 40 years . Let me know when your ready and I shall put you in direct contact with Mike Montagne or you can contact him your self either through his web page or on his youtube channel mikemontagne , tell him chotaboy66 sent you OK
Note that I never argued for a gold currency, people can use whichever assets they please to back up their currencies. All I said is that there are benefits to having a currency backed by something as opposed to a currency backed by nothing. Most notably the reduced risk of holding it.
4:49 Hard assets backing a currency can work if those assets remain equal or no more than the value of circulation .HOW? By a 1.1.1 ratio where all obligation is equal or no more than remaining circulation & equal to no more than remaining property value, all obligation is retired at the rate of deprecation & NO interest charged on any obligation.
NOTE:A finite resource such as gold used as a currency will be ARTIFICIALLY DEFLATED because its value can NEVER equal the value of all property.
@chotaboy66 "NOTE:A finite resource such as gold used as a currency will be ARTIFICIALLY DEFLATED because its value can NEVER equal the value of all property."
First, it is not artificially deflated, but naturally. I.e. it rises in value as demand goes up, due to economic growth. You seem to believe in some objective theory of value, missing the point that all evaluation of one good is made in terms of another.
@jrgenkratz You fail to see the obfuscation of our promissory obligation whether its represented by fiat,gold or whatever,if one divides the gold on hand by the number of people.In the case of the U.S, reported monetary reserves are $80b, divided by a 300m population = $266 per capita to do all your business & saving etc. A return to the gold standard CAN be artificially deflated as long as the represented property exceeds $266 per capita,Which IS a case of PERPETUAL, MONUMENTAL DEFLATION.
@chotaboy66 First of all, you can't measure the amount of gold available in dollars. You can measure it in ounces, or tons, or any measure of weight you choose, but not in terms of a fiat currency. Who knows what the price of goods would be in terms of gold? We don't use gold to conduct trade today so it is hard to tell. Regardless, you can't talk about deflation when switching to a new currency, which gold would be if you abandoned whichever fiat currency you presently use.
@jrgenkratz Absurd & illogical , Of course gold can be measured in dollars.It can so long as the obfuscation of our promissory obligations still exists denying us TRUE representation of wealth which IS the root cause of economic failure today,Furthermore if gold was backing any currency it is indeed measured by its Representative value such as dollars, even if it wasn't representing a currency TODAY its purchase value is in U.S. dollars,how much is an ounce of gold worth in dollars today SIR?
@chotaboy66 You are missing the point. You can indeed appreciate the "value" of all tradeable gold available on the market in terms of dollars. However, you cannot measure the AMOUNT of gold, i.e. weight, available in terms of dollars. As you are well aware of, the price of gold in terms of dollar is constantly fluctuating and saying "I have 2 dollars worth of gold" means two different things today and yesterday, whereas "I have 1 ounce of gold" always means the same thing.
@jrgenkratz You are missing the point. You can indeed appreciate the "value" of all tradeable gold available on the market in terms of dollars. However, you cannot measure the AMOUNT of gold, i.e. weight, available in terms of dollars.
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Your first argument was, it is not artificially deflated. now you deny the maths that proves a gold backed currency can be artificially deflated & overlook the very obfuscation of any representation of currency via our promissory obligations to each other.
@chotaboy66 If you trade gold in a free market, its value is determined by supply and demand. And appreciation or depreciation of gold is thus natural and not artificial. Can you come up with an example of artificial deflation of a free market gold-based currency? Also, I note that you have written the same sentence like four times. I did read it, don't worry.
No such thing as a free market NEVER WAS & NEVER WILL as long as the obfuscation or artificial suspension of our promissory obligations exist . Something I know your doctrine promotes out of blind ignorance of money creation. Your talking in circle's like all Austrian advocates DO when presented with the mathematical proof you cant explain nor will you because your doctrine preserves the very banks that deny us true representation of wealth.
It's quite amazing how you can accuse others of circular reasoning while just having repeated a rather random collection of what you must consider advanced or intellectual words, what, like 5 times now? :) The fact that you think you have provided mathematical proof by dividing the price of the US gold reserves (I'm not from the US so I can't be arsed checking the numbers, since they are also irrelevant to the discussion) by the size of the US population is rather amusing though, I won't lie.
@jrgenkratz The fact that you think you have provided mathematical proof by dividing the price of the US gold reserves (I'm not from the US so I can't be arsed checking the numbers, since they are also irrelevant to the discussion) by the size of the US population is rather amusing though, I won't lie.
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Then your obvious lack of assertion can only prove you are indeed a apart of the problem we all face today & by admission of blind faith in false economic doctrines that indeed fail the math
@chotaboy66 It is true that eventually you will reach a point where no more non-monetary gold can be converted to monetary use and no more gold can be mind, and yes if the economy is growing still at that point we would face deflation indeed. However, there is nothing saying it would be monumental and there is no reason to believe deflation would be a problem either, as long as the currency is easily divided. And for smaller denominations, you can use other resources...
@jrgenkratz It is true that eventually you will reach a point where no more non-monetary gold can be converted to monetary use and no more gold can be mind, and yes if the economy is growing still at that point we would face deflation indeed.
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Eventually ? Absurd & illogical ,economy will collapse overnight & the 2nd grade math proves it.
Economy will stop in its tracks ,how can it still be growing when the gold representing the currency devalues all properly & all wealth to $266 per head.
@chotaboy66 I don't like your tone. "Second grade math" does not prove your point. I am a post-graduate economics student and have studied austrian economics extensively on the side and I have yet to come across any "second grade math" that proves what you are saying. Your premise that a gold currency would depreciate all property and wealth to $266 per capita, so could prove this statement in a decent manner without using words like absurd or illogical about everyone else?
@jrgenkratz I am a post-graduate economics student and have studied austrian economics extensively
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This explains it all ,your then a part of the problem we all face today because you actually promote the very banks that deny us true representation of wealth that indeed destroys our credit worthiness by charged interest INTEREST THAT NEVER CREATED OR ISSUED . Your preposterous illogical doctrine indeed has no logic nor the maths to back it up & was proved incorrect over 40 years ago sir .
@chotaboy66 Wait, which doctrine. I just told you I have both studied mainstream economics at a university and austrian economics on my spare time. How do you know which of these schools I adhere to, and which of these fundamentally different schools of thought have been proven incorrect over 40 years ago? And by whom? Don't tell me you are a zeitgeister...
@jrgenkratz How do you know which of these schools I adhere to, and which of these fundamentally different schools of thought have been proven incorrect over 40 years ago? And by whom? Don't tell me you are a zeitgeister...
-- I'm NOT a zeitgeister PLEASE , I'm a advocate of "mathematically perfected economy" which NO ONE has disproved in over 40 years & nor will they in the next 400 years. MPE proves mainstream & Austrian doctrines to be incorrect with a little LOGIC & basic maths sir.
Hint: When people talk about asset based currencies, they are generally not talking about reforming the currency monopoly and once again peg the fiat currency to whatever remaining reserves the government has left.
@jrgenkratz You seem to believe in some objective theory of value, missing the point that all evaluation of one good is made in terms of another.
Mathematics applied LOGICALLY is no theory its '"PROOF ".moreover there is nothing natural about the artificial sustention or obfuscation of OUR promissory obligations to each other perpetrated by all banks by fraudulently publishing evidence of our promissory obligations to each other claiming to be the true creditor when they're clearly not sir.
PREPOSTEROUS & ABSURD & UTTER RUBBISH STEF ,Any intelligent person can see bitCON can be artificially deflated, indeed there is no free market NEVER WAS FREE & NEVER WILL BE FREE so long as the VERY artificial sustention or obfuscation of OUR promissory obligations remains BEFORE FRACTIONAL MULTIPLICATION which is the root cause of ALL circulatory deflation TODAY, presuming a free market exists by a false claim equality co exists is simply absurd, illogical & willfully ignorant of reality mate,
It also sounds like you're trying to sell people the proverbial box with nothing inside that you are so keen to point out is actually a lie. Feasting on invisible apples?
A car with or without a sunroof is a still a car and be sold as a car. A bitcoin is still nothing, and when Bitcoin 2 comes out you'll be holding the bag of nothing.
For the hard asset douchebags. Nothing stop you to buy gold with bitcoins or even burn the data on hard metal like a cd. No need electrity to preserve it. Only need bitcoins to make bitcoins trades.
The first major Bitcoin theft was just reported. Got to SGTreport com to see the story.
Great idea, huh? I was always skeptical. If it's not a hard, tangible asset, it's nothing as far as I'm concerned. The mining algorithm may not be crackable now, but who knows how long that will continue to be the case?
Hard, tangible assets can't be stolen? LibertyDollar customers thought the gold/silver they "owned" was safe too...until the govt. stole it.
And, the stolen LDs amount to over $20 million...a tad more than the $1/2 million of bitcons allegedly stolen.
ANYTHING can be stolen...or counterfeited..."tangible assets" were in a horrible slump from the early 1980's up until around 2000...nothing is 100% safe.
...demanded by other people. Once that demands vanishes (for whatever reason, I'm not saying it ever would), then bitcoins become completely useless, while currency backed up by real assets would still be demanded for their non-monetary uses. Thus your currency may lose value as people stop using it as a medium of exchange, but it will not use ALL value, as you can still sell the underlying assets for other uses.
@jrgenkratz The operating costs of an asset-backed currency will (or should) be higher than a non-asset backed currency from having to store, protect and transport a physical asset which cannot be virtualised without eliminating it's underlying value*. The accumulation of these extra costs will offset the resources you get back when the asset is sold, on which you expend resources to acquire to begin with.
@amlorusso For, for example, a 100% gold reserve currency, that is true. However, with fractional-reserve banking, you don't store resources in the bank, you lend them to the bank so they can invest them. This means that you can even have interest bearing currencies (even though this is seldom seen in practice). Imagine you have a money in the bank an can transfer it instantly to someone else's account free of charge, are there then transaction costs for you?
@jrgenkratz A fractional-reserve lending based asset-backed currency devalues the assets per currency, because there are now more currency units per assets than before the fractional lending. Thus eroding the underlying asset value benefit of an asset-based currency. The purchasing/maintenance of the physical asset costs resources. That cost is either born by the asset, offsetting the value of the asset, or it is born by the currency consumer, which will give an effective per-transaction cost.
@amlorusso And how & why a fractional lending devalues the assets? because of intervention by a obfuscation of "our " promissory obligations fraudulently perpetrated by all banks pre expansion , jrgenkratz fails to comprehend what happens at the root conception of money creation " ground floor " pre expansion, before the fraudulent exchange,his rhetoric is merely addressing the consequence or a secondary process of creation which is only a fictional expansion process that multiplies down not up.
@chotaboy66 The advantage of an asset-backed currency compared to an non-asset backed currency is that if the currency fails you have an asset to exchange for the currency units, the asset being divided equally per unit of currency issued on the asset. Fractional-reserve means issuing more currency units relative to a 100% reserve system, which means that advantage is devalued compared to a 100% reserve system.
@amlorusso Circulation has to be at least equal to the value of obligation & equal to the value of all property to defeat deflation & inflation ,one has to look at why circulation is depleting faster than any injection of national debt even by a secondary process of expansion. Expansion is not creation rather expansion multiplies " down" eventually.How are deposits created if every nation is in debt ? Look at the obfuscation of the obligors promissory obligation that allows expansion to continue
@amlorusso There are operating costs for the issuer of the currency. And these costs are normally more than (asyou don't receive interest on the notes you hold) covered by the returns to whatever investments the bank makes with your "deposited" assets. For full-reserve banking there is of course a resource cost (the opportunity cost of storing instead of using the assets), but this is different from transaction costs, and is much lesser with fractional-reserve banking (non-fiat-currencies too).
...bank free of charge) and transfers can be made completely costless. The price of using the currency does not lie in the transaction but in the risk, the risk of the receipt, digital or in paper form, not being redeemable. If it is not redeemable anymore, it will lose its value as long as people dont expect it to be redeemable in the future. This risk is not eliminated with bitcoins, but is actually higher. They are not backed up by anything, so their value is exclusively dependent on being..
I don't buy the transaction cost argument. If you look at bank notes historically, they have traded at par value. You lend the bank 10 ounces of gold, and the bank gives you a receipt of 10 ounces of gold, that is redeemable at any time, or (if the bank faces a bankrun) after its investments mature (according to contract, and usually with a certain compensation for the wait). These notes had transaction costs, yes. But today, these notes can be made digital (or historically you could phone the..
Though bitcoin isn't backed by any commodity of intrinsic value e.g Gold or Silver and isn't anything physical you can hold
The upside is
A. Theres only going to be 21 million bit coins issued and they are issued with no interest attached. This means they should not be affected with devaluation or by hyper inflation
B. It's a non centralised currency and therefore can't be as a political or economic weapon by a specific group or goverment!
If you *want* to live with air pollution? Who would WANT that? You would have to choose that because you can't afford to live in an area with clean air, which you pretty much admit in the next sentence while trying to make it sound like a fair free choice has been made. I find this FINANCIAL VIOLENCE totally unacceptable.
@fuckoverload "If you *want* to live with air pollution? Who would WANT that?"
Plenty of people, even you. Are you living out in the middle of the ocean or deep in the forest? No, you probably live in a suburb, or at least a town surrounded by people. Do people drive cars where you live? How do you get power for your house? How do you get food? All of these things potentially cause air pollution.
The same general idea with bitcoins: you get some benefits, and you give up some benefits.
What happens to Bitcoin transactions when the state throws the internet kill switch? That is my major criticism.
Pointing guns at millions of individuals to steal individual pieces of metal one at a time throughout the world vs. pushing one button-- much easier to kill Bitcoin if they decided to.
I personally don't like bitcoin, but I'm all for competing currencies. What I don't like about bitcoins is that it is difficult to convince non computer geeks that they're valuable and to explain to them the concept. Gold and silver are much easier to understand, they have 6000 year history and they are promoted by rappers and pirate movies.
At 8:00 you said a curious thing. "If you don't take price into account, you can't do an intelligent comparison." This actually highlights the greatest flaw in Bitcoin. It is inelastic. The value of each coin changes over time. This makes the determination of price for borrowing or lending incalculable. If I borrowed 100 bitcoin 6 months ago at 10%, I could have bought about 1 dollar worth of goods with it. If I wanted to pay that back today, I would need $2000 to $3000 worth of value.
@TashiRogo "The value of each coin changes over time."
What makes you think that's true? The supply of bitcoins is currently growing by 50 bitcoins every 10 minutes; that's an increase of about 40% per year of the total supply; in addition, a whole bunch of people just heard about bitcoins this month and are jumping in to speculate. Hence the extreme volatility. Mass adoption of bitcoin in a few years will create sticky prices.
I think the reason people are sceptical about Bitcoin having no hard assets, is the fear of not being able to maintain is scarcity. Now Bitcoin is supposed to at some point in time run into an absloute amount, meaning it won't suffer from the fluctuations of inflation. Much like in the past when people but hard assets on currentcy it was to ensure its value was based on how finite the said asset is, to prevent wild inflation rates.
Still not convinced. Bitcoin depends, not only on electricity, but also on internet (at least for verification), on computer security (!), and personal hardware.
Electricity, computers, etc, all cost money; there's no "zero transaction cost" in bitcoin, even if the costs are diluted or hidden.
In spite of this, it may well succeed. To me It looks fragile.
And I just tend to remember Jim Roger's advice: "Invest in things you know".
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This video is a huge waste of time... Bitcoins is cheaper and more volatile because its not backed by real assets. Ok! Got it. Should that take 7 min to explain?
@stefbot Admittedly it has been, but that volatility is the result of pure manipulation, nothing more. Anything else is frankly impossible once the fundamentals of silver are considered. There's hardly any physical silver remaining and even though everyone is producing on all cylinders, production is still lagging behind the comparatively minuscule demand that now exists. VERY few have entered the market and there are STILL delays in satisfying demand. I feel MUCH safer with silver than Bitcoins
@IIArchonII It's volatile because it's new and lacks liquidity due to the relatively few number of coins in existence. Once all 21 million (or so) coins are done the price will settle.
@IIArchonII The dollar isn't backed by any real assets but does it fluctuate wildly? No it decreases in value steadily. Bitcoin is a tiny market, you can move the price by a dollar just by buying or selling a few thousand dollars worth.
@priapus512 Yes it is. Watch Stefan's video about human livestock. ;-)
The problem of bitcoins having no hard assets backing it up simple means that you are investing in thin air, and therefore it's price could simply go down to absolute zero in any moment as soon as people stops speculating with its value.
Bitcoins will never catch up; the need for every user having a host PTP running will prevent it from being a widespread form of internet payment; and it's impractical for offline use.
@flyermay My gold could go down to zero if the government confiscated it. Yeah there are certainly risks with bitcoin (more now when it's in it's infancy), I certainly wouldn't put my life savings in it, but there are risks with anything else you use as currency.
Secondly not every user has to run the mining software, and as for the physical aspect look up bitbills dot com.
@priapus512 That's an entirely different case; bitcoins can go to zero in any moment without any intervention. Besides, if you are worried about confiscation, then you should invest in rare gold/silver like me (that will not be confiscated). ;-)
They don't have to run the mining software, but they need the host PTP to make any transaction; which makes it rather complicated for people who just want to use it as a currency, and useless offline.
@stefbot - There's also the fact that hard assets require hard hands to physically move them to over to other hard hands and those said hands have to be within close proximity to each other.
@aletoledo1 As someone who was a Liberty Dollar RCO and the builder of the silver marketplace for AOCS, I think I know more about using silver as a currency than most people.
The problem is that because of gresham's law you have to have a face value on silver currency that is higher than the cost of the metal in terms of the fiat you're competing against. Otherwise, no one will spend silver at spot because people spend the bad money before the good.
@aletoledo1 That's why freemason shills like silverfuturist, stellaconcepts, and H1INC all always talk about buying government currency that has face value of 'one dollar' on 1oz pieces because they know that those will never get circulated as money, while at the same time they will deride attempts at monetizing silver like Liberty Dollar and the American Open Currency Standard. Same reason they hate on bitcoin.
@MigDanskeren To use bitcoin though, I pay for power, pay for internet and likely pay for a computer as well. These "incidentals" can be spread out for many things though, like I use my computer for many things and I wear my shoes many didn't places. Therefore these seem to balance out.
Bitcoin is cool no doubt, but we should remember it's limitations. If society collapses, I'd rather have silver. If society never collapses, then bitcoin is then a whole lot more convenient than silver.
@ashane77 "If we devolve to a pre-industrial society, as your post suggests is a possibility, your silver will be as useful as a bitcoin." Don't you think that barter will occur or did you think I was suggesting a "Mad Max" type of world? Pre-industrial societies used gold and silver as money, I see no reason to expect that not to happen yet again.
I imagine that the likely dominant currency of the future will be some derivative of precious metals
Similar to gold / silver ETFs which are future contracts where you have the option to ask for delivery, but just like with stocks, the incentive is to keep it as an electronic / paper market, thus the economy of scales reduces the transaction costs significantly
However it truly is speculation because we have the further thing from a free market in currency ie legal tender laws / capital gains
And because of the fact that we live in a world where currency is just so far removed from the free market I don't know if it's fair to consider bitcoin a product of a free market environment.
IMHO it more of a reaction to fiat currency, but this is not to say there's no merit in the system they've set up, it's quite fascinating. But hey when you have forced confiscation / shut down of things like e-gold it's hard to say if bitcoin would be doing so well otherwise.
Volunteer fire department up the street has "Buckle up! It's the law!" On the billboard in front. Not for safety... It is not about safety. At least when they put up signs saying "Don't drink and drive. You can't afford it" they are being honest.
Laws are not there to keep you and I safer, those laws are there to generate revenue. Rip all of the safety features out of cars and such and people would drive way safer. The safer you feel the more careless you are.
Also the reason why people want real tangible assets (with real world uses) is because when the shit hits the fan, the people will still have those hard assets with real life uses so they can trade it with other people.
Even paper dollars can be burnt for fuel or used for paper wall. Bitcoins is just that, 1s and 0s on a fricken computer hard drive and yes
You know another scam that is free market and follows the non aggression policy? Quixtar. Yes yes, Bitcoin have gone through a few levels of evolution but its still the same scam under a different name. The original investors went in with little or zero risk and no are making out like bandits.
So keep pushing the pyramid/ pump and dump scheme, your subscribers sure will remember you when the shit hits the fan.
Bitcoin could work in a free market, but it is not a free market. Businesses will never be allowed to accept them. If they advertise 'we accept bitcoins' it will be the same as 'we pay our employees under the table'. They will be aggressed against. And the way this fellow recently said you could buy at Amazon through selling your bitcoins against dollars to a newcomer, with which something is bought at Amazon, will fail as soon as no more new dollars flow in to convert all these transactions.
listening to a libertarian carrying the banner for digital fiat currency after ALL the LOONG discussion against fiat currencies is pretty discomforting. By this analysis then there is nothing wrong with digital fiat dollars?
digital fiat currency = total enslavement
ISPs log data packets from IP addresses, so how is bitcoin impervious to corporate or federal control? IT ISN'T but by ALL means put your savings in bitcoins...might as well be buying magic beans at least then you'd have the beans
"ISPs log data packets from IP addresses, so how is bitcoin impervious to corporate or federal control?"
Encrypt a request and send it to a BitCoin anonymizer; make sure the anonymizer is registered under a DNS in a foreign country. A gazillion years later when the government finally brute-force cracks the encryption, you'll be long dead.
@HeyItzMeDawg and next... a scanable tattoo for merchants to scan and deduct 'credits' from your account for purchases. The banksters have wanted a global digital currency for years to further control the herds. They can label it 'revolutionary' all they want to but there isn't anything new or revolutionary about it.
a Goldstandart is for the people so they can trust the goverment to handel Problem in the right way and get real value everytime they think the Bank or Gov screws around with it
for example you cant start a unnecessary War when you are on the Goldstandart (exept you are realy wealthy) because you cant devalue your currency to finance it
Does bitcoin have any guarantee against inflationary monetary policy i.e. creating new currency without a corresponding increase in goods and services for that currency to chase?
BITCOINS WILL SAVE THE WORLD, STRIP THE POWER FROM THE SUPER ELITE OVERNIGHT! We can do this, but watch out guys. The elite will do something horrible, I just know it. This won't be a simple thing.
The hard assets part doesnt make much sense. How would one even go about trying to back bitcions with hard assets? There is no central authority who could even back it.
stevenwagner 5 months ago
Enjoy a 5% discount on your bitcoin to gold purchases with the code BETALUVDISC5
Coinabul 5 months ago
we need a new economy, one that does not only take costs and profits, demand and supply, into account
floresluis02 6 months ago
YES! we need to take it all into account. thank you for mentioning that. and about that.. what is it that drives all free markets?? competition. lower costs and adjust price for maximum profit. lowering cost -> ignore environmental efficient methods of production.. exploit workers, hours and pay... and make them live in the polluted communities you create, while you enjoy your life in the nice "pollution free" areas. yeah. free markets all balance themselves out.
floresluis02 6 months ago
Bitcoin is NOT without mining cost. But great points about costs of gold reserve banking increasing the cost of gold. The same thing is true for all commodity backed currencies. One thing you didn't cover is how fractional reserve banking is used by mega bankers to create booms and bust which they use to buy up the world and make us their slaves. That's NOT a free market IMO.
I like what Bill Still says "in order for a currency to be in the public good, it must be worthless" or close to it A
dlpirl 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 8 months ago
sorry i dont agree. bitcoin has become so hard to mine now it cost you more in power then they are worth.
luther349 8 months ago
Very good point about a gold-backed currency driving up the costs of the currency. I hadn't thought of that!
BookofNick 8 months ago
"Free market" has meant that over two billion hard working humans all over the planet struggle to survive on $2 US (or less) a day. Free market for them is delivered through the IMF and WB debt - current UN schemes directed, managed & controlled basically through US banking interests. I see this as a rapid progression of human criminality. What system of governing over 6 billion people would ensure that a dominant aggressive class of criminals would not do exactly what's transpired to this day?
t4705mb6 8 months ago
Video is too lengthy (and verbose) to get across a simple concept
jakhannew 8 months ago
What about the issue of copycat currency*. Wouldnt't other people, companies, governments just copy Bitcoin's idea? Although the government's digital currency would likely be more expensive
collector842002 8 months ago
@collector842002 the goverment does not like compeating currency. and if it was some guy printing his own money he would be in jail or dead by now.
luther349 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
His denials notwithstanding, epistemologically he is an intrinsicist (a false theory of knowledge, which claims 'that universals are "intrinsic" to reality' ) which then gets converted into a bizarre dogmatic morality, where rules are for all people, at all times, under all circumstances, thereby dismissing context, which in fact conditions and qualifies all moral statements.
thegohstoftroymclure 8 months ago
all your really saying is "it might work... but we'd all be better of with gold."
robbkemp 8 months ago
@robbkemp we cannot use gold because they will get us
Motherlandpluto 8 months ago
I appear to be watching old videos before watching new ones, and I am sometimes responding with comments that have already been addressed in newer videos, such as the issue with Bitcoins not being backed by hard assets. What I fail to understand is why anyone would trade for Bitcoins in the first place, given that they are nothing at all, they have no value other than what humans ascribe to them. Why would people not pay for my angels on heads of pins?
Panpiper 8 months ago
"The moment you have hard-assets backing up a currency, then your costs increase dramatically..." Exactly!!! That is why bitcoin is so great! No need to physically secure your bitcoin wallet (please folks, encrypt your bitcoin wallets and upload it to a server). And very small transactions costs, because there is no physical object to be moved. Thanks for your positive endorsement and explanation of bitcoin. I just sent you 1 bitcoin as a donation to your great philosophy podcasts/youtube.
ericfontainejazz 8 months ago
@TheBadBizzle he references the argument, hes not saying its his proof. research the argument and youll see the evidence. search "seat belts make people drive less safe" and go to scienceblogs article. using google it was the fourth on down.
ExerciseFutility 8 months ago
He called him stupid lol
watch?v=5IUeenH9P6Y
deshaebeasley 8 months ago
that is not an argument against bitcoin especially but against all made up money.
weeearthlings 8 months ago
Currency uncoupled from hard assets is terrible for human psychology - creating a 'buffer' between people and separating us from the responsibility of our actions. As seeing, feeling, tactile, immediate beings we need to feel, tangibly, the consequences of our actions on others and our surroundings. Currency creates a gap across which morality need not cross. Responsibility becomes no longer to the people/places/things you need - and becomes only about the currency you hand over the counter.
weeearthlings 8 months ago
Sorry Stefan but i cant start to explain you that all your example you are making showing the inhuman and psychopath think structure that comes out from people who praise the "GOD" money
FieserxFettsack 8 months ago
Bitcoin still doesn't solve the REAL problems that any monetary system automatically creates: social stratification, rich and poor, technological unemployment, resource depletion and environmental pollution due to cyclical consumption, escalation of stress and working conditions, and so on... but those Free Market types simply keep ignoring that.
brightgeistmovies 8 months ago 2
@brightgeistmovies If you think that money is the sole cause of all of those problems, you're just blindly ignorant (or you Zeitgeist types simply keep ignoring that! lol). You realize that after the abolishing of money in socialized states like Stalin's Russia, all of those things still happened, right?
Please, send me a PM explaining to me how IOU slips are the cause of all of that. Forgive me for being skeptical of communism redux; it impoverished and killed millions last time...
HeyItzMeDawg 8 months ago
@HeyItzMeDawg hey smartass . how many people where killed by the monetary system !? ... just guess ?
FieserxFettsack 8 months ago
@HeyItzMeDawg : well, we're not talking about creating another "Stalin's Russia" or "communism redux". if all you can do is call the RBE "communism" and then tell us what was wrong with communism, then you apparently don't have any real arguments. because an RBE isn't communism. if you believe that, then to you an electric car is the same as a steam train, because they both are machines that can transport people and goods. if that is your complexity level of thinking, we won't get far.
brightgeistmovies 8 months ago
but, in any case, i'm not gonna send you a PM because i want this information to be available to everyone. so here's what'd different between an RBE and communism: in an RBE, we will have several things that communism didn't have. first of all, an RBE is not centrally planned. in an RBE, every single producer, refiner, transporter, consumer (and so on) of any kind of good manages their own little "universe", just the way they do today.
brightgeistmovies 8 months ago
@brightgeistmovies All I got out of that was a pile of assertions and a lot of misguided hope in something you can't coherently explain. I'm open to being proven wrong here, but that's why I asked you to send me a PM instead of trying to explain yourself in tiny, bite-sized chunks of 500 characters each.
Basically, you get to pick and choose all of the benefits of our current system while automagically removing any and all inconvenient problems (oh, like communism!). Forgive my skepticism...
HeyItzMeDawg 8 months ago
@HeyItzMeDawg : then, second, in an RBE you can immediately start automating whatever can sensibly be automated. also, everyone whose job doesn't really contribute anything real (like bankers, insurance people, and so on) can stop doing those jobs. so with that and ongoing automation, you can continuously free people from the pointless or mundane or dangerous jobs, and they can then do whatever they want, ideally helping the ones that do relevant jobs, so that everybody needs to work less.
brightgeistmovies 8 months ago
@HeyItzMeDawg : that way, the work load per person can very quickly be reduced to about 10% of what we have today, which (combined with the changed values that need to come before the transition into an RBE) will certainly be incentive enough for almost everyone to see the incredible benefits of this system. i mean, who in their right mind wouldn't understand that it's better to change to a system in which you work 4 hours a week and don't have to be afraid to lose your job or your home?
brightgeistmovies 8 months ago
@HeyItzMeDawg : another important point: of course, as soon as this transition into an RBE has been made, we can immediately start helping the poor and starving people of the world establish infrastructures to feed themselves, providing them with technology like OmegaGarden and desalination systems. and as soon as everyone on the planet is provided with the necessities of life, we can start raising everyone's standard of living.
brightgeistmovies 8 months ago
So what you are saying is, it is cheaper to live in New York city then it is to live in Manhattan, Montana because the air in Billings is cleaner? That makes zero sense, it cost 500 times more to live in polluted cities, then the fresh air country!!
DreadeddLion 8 months ago
@DreadeddLion
are u actually serious???? New York is not Manhattan or Montana, they cannot be compared in price. He is saying that in places which are more wanted (cleaner, less polluted) will be worth more than if it had more pollution (assuming people want to live in places with less pollution).
JCaSs1001 8 months ago
Couldn't someone hack bitcoin??
OhManTFE 8 months ago
@OhManTFE If someone were to crack the SHA-256 algorithm (unlikely), bitcoins would be in a bad state. However, other attacks on the system are prevented by the very distributed computing work that miners do to earn their coins.
SaroDarksbane 7 months ago
BitCoin seems to have a lot of the properties of a pyramid scheme, mainly:
- First adopters have an inherent advantage since they could create large amounts of BitCoins.
- BitCoins have no inherent value. The only value they have is that which is attributed to them by those whose trade in them.
- The more people that can be convinced to trade in BitCoins, the higher the pool of real money available to exchange for BitCoins.
SuperMarcBot 8 months ago
@SuperMarcBot You realize that none of those things you listed are even remotely related to the definition of a pyramid scheme? In a pyramid scheme, early adopters can only profit at the expense of late adopters, because it is a win-lose system that involves taking money from one group and giving it to another.
Early investors of bitcoin can profit from the currencies rise in value. Late investors of bitcoin profit from the usefulness and stability of a widely accepted P2P currency.
HeyItzMeDawg 8 months ago
@SuperMarcBot First adopters have an advantage exactly once. Contrast this to our current system where the people at the top have the same advantage, except forever. Second, nothing has inherent value. The value of an item is what someone else will trade for it, no more, no less. If someone believes that bitcoins have properties that make them useful or superior when compared to other currencies, then they have value to that person.
SaroDarksbane 7 months ago
Any attack on the Fed system can only be good.
PlatinumGordon 8 months ago
Perhaps I am missing something...If the value of a bit coin has risen from a few pennies each to about fifty dollars each. If I want to purchase an item will it have a minimum price say $50.00 for a pack of gum How will I get change of are there tenths and quarters of bits?As I understand it there is only around 21 million bit coins available so that would mean there is not enough for every one to possess even 1 let alone enough to own enough to buy any thing of value . not enough characters
odenh33 8 months ago
@odenh33 Bitcoins are currently divisible up to 8 decimal places... and can be reprogrammed to be infinitely divisible if need be.
HeyItzMeDawg 8 months ago
jrspolitical... It is, because people are not informed about it... They do not know that if there was a collapse then there would not be enough money to give everybody there withdrawals... That is fraudulent, though you could argue it's down to people to research, i believe business should be honest and open, so i put the blame on the banks. Anyone can enter into any scheme they like, as long as everything is explained and understood then there is nothing morally wrong with it.
snaz27 8 months ago
Bitcoin isn't free, but it has attributes that are valuable in a currency. Something nothing else has at the moment, hence its value.
MegatonSamurai 8 months ago
I soaked up the Greek economy video-great but this one has failed to reach me-maybe I am too old. Bitcoins as an investment are risky with what benefit, I am able to pay for most items now. And what do sellers want for bitcoins-not nothing! but hard assets will do:)
iUbookz 8 months ago
What are you selling here? It does not feel serious to me.
qminusis 8 months ago
@qminusis There are more than 200 comments here plus a speaker in the video. Who are you addressing? You should be more clear when commenting. That benefits everyone, not least importantly yourself.
TomMichaels101 8 months ago
@TomMichaels101
Stef the speaker. The bitcoin video over 40 minutes and this video does not really clear or convince me to use bitcoins. And thats free market: I and many others are not willing to be paid by digital ones and zeros called bitcoins. How can someone think that this is a solution in a world of fraud and fake money?
Comparing bitcoins and gold that way? Sorry but there is a psycological and historical aspect to it that Stefen completely ignores.
qminusis 8 months ago
Digital money? Sounds like the aspirations and 'dreams' of the Venus Project. Digital Money is even more dangerous than a fractional reserve since its nothing but code and binary. Just as People thought voter fraud was bad, until the electronic voting came around, the same fate awaits here. I can easily see how this could evolve into a "credits" based system, much like carbon credits, but for a vast array of things.
rea1001 8 months ago
Just because you choose not to see the problems with a fractional reserve currency doesn't mean that there aren't any.
Lightrider4444 8 months ago
The point is not to work out your trade-off between location value and air pollution levels. The point is to reduce all air pollution to levels that are compatible with environmental and human health.
Myrmecia 8 months ago
The fact that bitcoin is not backed by real assets is its main strength. It takes banks out the equation altogether. I don't need to trust someone to look after my bitcoins - I can just read the source code.
93msinclair 8 months ago
It seems that anything that flows from non aggression equals out and the free market is simply an extension of that.
BrainInSkull 8 months ago
In ignorance, we blame and run away from the true issues that are responsible for our prediciment. For example, if the mansion is a burden because of expenses, then perhaps selling it and moving into something more affordable would be wise (or perhaps renting out rooms). Likewise, if the cave is uncomfortable and we are finding an abundance of currency, perhaps selling it and moving into something more spacious would be beneficial (or renting it out and purchasing a bigger cave).
NemaselsNeo 8 months ago
In a truly Free Market, awareness is available to all who choose it - and I believe most would doso (eventually), as the cost of ignorance is high (after all... everything balances out in a Free Market, eh?).
The more we actively participate within our soceity and economy as soveign and responsible beings, the greater level of happiness we'd experience. If a choice or system is out of alignment with what we want - we simply alter our agreements and make new ones! :-)
NemaselsNeo 8 months ago
I fully believe that the only way society and it's economy can successfully be sustainable is for transparency to exist - thus we can all AGREE and make an aware choice whether or not we wish to participate in said agreements. When "secrets" or obfuscation exists within our essential agreements for living socially, it usually divides the classes into "Those In the Know" (ie The Rich) and "Those In Ignorance" (ie The Poor).
The question becomes - is everyone deserving of awareness?
I believe so.
NemaselsNeo 8 months ago
@NemaselsNeo If one looks at money conception via our promissory obligations "ground floor "one will see money is NOT created out of thin air nor is it created as debt, A borrower is NOT really borrowing rather a borrower is the obligor that creates all principal & its the obligors obligation to retire periodic payments from circulation to defeat circulatory inflation only a bank intervenes by fraud & launders all principal on conception & all payments of exchange causing circulatory deflation.
chotaboy66 8 months ago
Pretty cool!
GhostOfJayLeno 8 months ago
Essentially, any currency (whether fiat or "hard-backed") is only valuable because WE COLLECTIVELY AGREE IT TO BE SO. If I were to make some clay coins with a special "N" stamped on it - would I be able to exchange it for goods and services? Probably not - as I am the only one who is using it as currency... However, if I convinced 50 local people to agree to use it as currency then we'd be exchanging it for our goods and services...
Of course, this doesn't address value or counterfeiting... :-P
NemaselsNeo 8 months ago
I will take a look at his channel and contact him directly I think, and ask him whether he really wants to do debates like that. But yes, I'll refer to you.
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
@jrgenkratz All good either way I have just sent mike the link to this video , He will probably want to talk to you first at the very least.
chotaboy66 8 months ago
Oh, "mathematically perfected economy". I found the website perfecteconomy (dot) com. The author obviously does not understand what the economy is and it all seems like a resurrection of the laughable "hydraulic economics" of past times. Everyone should really go visit that site to get see one of the better stereotypes of what it is the austrian school is rejecting.
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
@jrgenkratz Oh, "mathematically perfected economy". I found the website perfecteconomy (dot) com. The author obviously does not understand what the economy is and it all seems like a resurrection of the laughable
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I invite you to debate the author ? Would you like to public debate the author on TNS radio ? .I should be able to swing it for you sir.
Indeed most who falsely claim MPE is not proof of solution out or ignorance always deny public debate , SO ARE YOU UP TO IT?
chotaboy66 8 months ago
@chotaboy66 Yes, I'm definitely up for it. I would just need some time to study his material.
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
@jrgenkratz Sure I will upload it on youtube so everyone can be aware of the vital matters we all need to comprehend regarding economy,I know Mike Montagne on personal level & I have nearly 200 videos on MPE on my channel good luck proving wrong that no man has done in 40 years . Let me know when your ready and I shall put you in direct contact with Mike Montagne or you can contact him your self either through his web page or on his youtube channel mikemontagne , tell him chotaboy66 sent you OK
chotaboy66 8 months ago
What does MPE stand for? Wikipedia or Google give no relevant hits.
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
@jrgenkratz MPE = Mathematically Perfected Economy ,, (PROOF OF SOLUTION) & proof of failure.
chotaboy66 8 months ago
Also, how did you find your way to this channel?
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Also, I do not "deny the math", I just think your application of math is invalid as it is based on false premises.
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
I meant to say that I do not accept your premise, can't edit posts on youtube unfortunately.
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
Note that I never argued for a gold currency, people can use whichever assets they please to back up their currencies. All I said is that there are benefits to having a currency backed by something as opposed to a currency backed by nothing. Most notably the reduced risk of holding it.
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
4:49 Hard assets backing a currency can work if those assets remain equal or no more than the value of circulation .HOW? By a 1.1.1 ratio where all obligation is equal or no more than remaining circulation & equal to no more than remaining property value, all obligation is retired at the rate of deprecation & NO interest charged on any obligation.
NOTE:A finite resource such as gold used as a currency will be ARTIFICIALLY DEFLATED because its value can NEVER equal the value of all property.
chotaboy66 8 months ago
@chotaboy66 "NOTE:A finite resource such as gold used as a currency will be ARTIFICIALLY DEFLATED because its value can NEVER equal the value of all property."
First, it is not artificially deflated, but naturally. I.e. it rises in value as demand goes up, due to economic growth. You seem to believe in some objective theory of value, missing the point that all evaluation of one good is made in terms of another.
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
@jrgenkratz You fail to see the obfuscation of our promissory obligation whether its represented by fiat,gold or whatever,if one divides the gold on hand by the number of people.In the case of the U.S, reported monetary reserves are $80b, divided by a 300m population = $266 per capita to do all your business & saving etc. A return to the gold standard CAN be artificially deflated as long as the represented property exceeds $266 per capita,Which IS a case of PERPETUAL, MONUMENTAL DEFLATION.
chotaboy66 8 months ago
@chotaboy66 First of all, you can't measure the amount of gold available in dollars. You can measure it in ounces, or tons, or any measure of weight you choose, but not in terms of a fiat currency. Who knows what the price of goods would be in terms of gold? We don't use gold to conduct trade today so it is hard to tell. Regardless, you can't talk about deflation when switching to a new currency, which gold would be if you abandoned whichever fiat currency you presently use.
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
@jrgenkratz Absurd & illogical , Of course gold can be measured in dollars.It can so long as the obfuscation of our promissory obligations still exists denying us TRUE representation of wealth which IS the root cause of economic failure today,Furthermore if gold was backing any currency it is indeed measured by its Representative value such as dollars, even if it wasn't representing a currency TODAY its purchase value is in U.S. dollars,how much is an ounce of gold worth in dollars today SIR?
chotaboy66 8 months ago
@chotaboy66 You are missing the point. You can indeed appreciate the "value" of all tradeable gold available on the market in terms of dollars. However, you cannot measure the AMOUNT of gold, i.e. weight, available in terms of dollars. As you are well aware of, the price of gold in terms of dollar is constantly fluctuating and saying "I have 2 dollars worth of gold" means two different things today and yesterday, whereas "I have 1 ounce of gold" always means the same thing.
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
@jrgenkratz You are missing the point. You can indeed appreciate the "value" of all tradeable gold available on the market in terms of dollars. However, you cannot measure the AMOUNT of gold, i.e. weight, available in terms of dollars.
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Your first argument was, it is not artificially deflated. now you deny the maths that proves a gold backed currency can be artificially deflated & overlook the very obfuscation of any representation of currency via our promissory obligations to each other.
chotaboy66 8 months ago
@chotaboy66 If you trade gold in a free market, its value is determined by supply and demand. And appreciation or depreciation of gold is thus natural and not artificial. Can you come up with an example of artificial deflation of a free market gold-based currency? Also, I note that you have written the same sentence like four times. I did read it, don't worry.
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
@jrgenkratz If you trade gold in a free market
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No such thing as a free market NEVER WAS & NEVER WILL as long as the obfuscation or artificial suspension of our promissory obligations exist . Something I know your doctrine promotes out of blind ignorance of money creation. Your talking in circle's like all Austrian advocates DO when presented with the mathematical proof you cant explain nor will you because your doctrine preserves the very banks that deny us true representation of wealth.
chotaboy66 8 months ago
It's quite amazing how you can accuse others of circular reasoning while just having repeated a rather random collection of what you must consider advanced or intellectual words, what, like 5 times now? :) The fact that you think you have provided mathematical proof by dividing the price of the US gold reserves (I'm not from the US so I can't be arsed checking the numbers, since they are also irrelevant to the discussion) by the size of the US population is rather amusing though, I won't lie.
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
@jrgenkratz The fact that you think you have provided mathematical proof by dividing the price of the US gold reserves (I'm not from the US so I can't be arsed checking the numbers, since they are also irrelevant to the discussion) by the size of the US population is rather amusing though, I won't lie.
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Then your obvious lack of assertion can only prove you are indeed a apart of the problem we all face today & by admission of blind faith in false economic doctrines that indeed fail the math
chotaboy66 8 months ago
@chotaboy66 It is true that eventually you will reach a point where no more non-monetary gold can be converted to monetary use and no more gold can be mind, and yes if the economy is growing still at that point we would face deflation indeed. However, there is nothing saying it would be monumental and there is no reason to believe deflation would be a problem either, as long as the currency is easily divided. And for smaller denominations, you can use other resources...
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
@jrgenkratz It is true that eventually you will reach a point where no more non-monetary gold can be converted to monetary use and no more gold can be mind, and yes if the economy is growing still at that point we would face deflation indeed.
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Eventually ? Absurd & illogical ,economy will collapse overnight & the 2nd grade math proves it.
Economy will stop in its tracks ,how can it still be growing when the gold representing the currency devalues all properly & all wealth to $266 per head.
chotaboy66 8 months ago
@chotaboy66 I don't like your tone. "Second grade math" does not prove your point. I am a post-graduate economics student and have studied austrian economics extensively on the side and I have yet to come across any "second grade math" that proves what you are saying. Your premise that a gold currency would depreciate all property and wealth to $266 per capita, so could prove this statement in a decent manner without using words like absurd or illogical about everyone else?
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
@jrgenkratz I am a post-graduate economics student and have studied austrian economics extensively
--
This explains it all ,your then a part of the problem we all face today because you actually promote the very banks that deny us true representation of wealth that indeed destroys our credit worthiness by charged interest INTEREST THAT NEVER CREATED OR ISSUED . Your preposterous illogical doctrine indeed has no logic nor the maths to back it up & was proved incorrect over 40 years ago sir .
chotaboy66 8 months ago
@chotaboy66 Wait, which doctrine. I just told you I have both studied mainstream economics at a university and austrian economics on my spare time. How do you know which of these schools I adhere to, and which of these fundamentally different schools of thought have been proven incorrect over 40 years ago? And by whom? Don't tell me you are a zeitgeister...
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
@jrgenkratz How do you know which of these schools I adhere to, and which of these fundamentally different schools of thought have been proven incorrect over 40 years ago? And by whom? Don't tell me you are a zeitgeister...
-- I'm NOT a zeitgeister PLEASE , I'm a advocate of "mathematically perfected economy" which NO ONE has disproved in over 40 years & nor will they in the next 400 years. MPE proves mainstream & Austrian doctrines to be incorrect with a little LOGIC & basic maths sir.
chotaboy66 8 months ago
Hint: When people talk about asset based currencies, they are generally not talking about reforming the currency monopoly and once again peg the fiat currency to whatever remaining reserves the government has left.
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
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@jrgenkratz You seem to believe in some objective theory of value, missing the point that all evaluation of one good is made in terms of another.
Mathematics applied LOGICALLY is no theory its '"PROOF ".moreover there is nothing natural about the artificial sustention or obfuscation of OUR promissory obligations to each other perpetrated by all banks by fraudulently publishing evidence of our promissory obligations to each other claiming to be the true creditor when they're clearly not sir.
chotaboy66 8 months ago
PREPOSTEROUS & ABSURD & UTTER RUBBISH STEF ,Any intelligent person can see bitCON can be artificially deflated, indeed there is no free market NEVER WAS FREE & NEVER WILL BE FREE so long as the VERY artificial sustention or obfuscation of OUR promissory obligations remains BEFORE FRACTIONAL MULTIPLICATION which is the root cause of ALL circulatory deflation TODAY, presuming a free market exists by a false claim equality co exists is simply absurd, illogical & willfully ignorant of reality mate,
chotaboy66 8 months ago
the new black room?
AnarchyEnsues 8 months ago
You should have said the dollar is backed by nothing. Also Yes bit coins go up and down in value. However the dollar gos down
thestonemaster81 8 months ago
It also sounds like you're trying to sell people the proverbial box with nothing inside that you are so keen to point out is actually a lie. Feasting on invisible apples?
ZiggleFingers 8 months ago
A car with or without a sunroof is a still a car and be sold as a car. A bitcoin is still nothing, and when Bitcoin 2 comes out you'll be holding the bag of nothing.
ZiggleFingers 8 months ago
The concept of bitcoin is so new and unfamiliar...its kind of like how a socialist would react to the idea of a stateless society.
ashane77 8 months ago
For the hard asset douchebags. Nothing stop you to buy gold with bitcoins or even burn the data on hard metal like a cd. No need electrity to preserve it. Only need bitcoins to make bitcoins trades.
NeutrinoideReturns 8 months ago
@NeutrinoideReturns Yes, exactly, so you can actually hold bitcoins in your hand.
ditkuss 8 months ago
The first major Bitcoin theft was just reported. Got to SGTreport com to see the story.
Great idea, huh? I was always skeptical. If it's not a hard, tangible asset, it's nothing as far as I'm concerned. The mining algorithm may not be crackable now, but who knows how long that will continue to be the case?
IvanTheHeathen 8 months ago
@IvanTheHeathen
Hard, tangible assets can't be stolen? LibertyDollar customers thought the gold/silver they "owned" was safe too...until the govt. stole it.
And, the stolen LDs amount to over $20 million...a tad more than the $1/2 million of bitcons allegedly stolen.
ANYTHING can be stolen...or counterfeited..."tangible assets" were in a horrible slump from the early 1980's up until around 2000...nothing is 100% safe.
ashane77 8 months ago
...demanded by other people. Once that demands vanishes (for whatever reason, I'm not saying it ever would), then bitcoins become completely useless, while currency backed up by real assets would still be demanded for their non-monetary uses. Thus your currency may lose value as people stop using it as a medium of exchange, but it will not use ALL value, as you can still sell the underlying assets for other uses.
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
@jrgenkratz The operating costs of an asset-backed currency will (or should) be higher than a non-asset backed currency from having to store, protect and transport a physical asset which cannot be virtualised without eliminating it's underlying value*. The accumulation of these extra costs will offset the resources you get back when the asset is sold, on which you expend resources to acquire to begin with.
* Just ask the Media IP industry.
amlorusso 8 months ago
@amlorusso For, for example, a 100% gold reserve currency, that is true. However, with fractional-reserve banking, you don't store resources in the bank, you lend them to the bank so they can invest them. This means that you can even have interest bearing currencies (even though this is seldom seen in practice). Imagine you have a money in the bank an can transfer it instantly to someone else's account free of charge, are there then transaction costs for you?
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
@jrgenkratz A fractional-reserve lending based asset-backed currency devalues the assets per currency, because there are now more currency units per assets than before the fractional lending. Thus eroding the underlying asset value benefit of an asset-based currency. The purchasing/maintenance of the physical asset costs resources. That cost is either born by the asset, offsetting the value of the asset, or it is born by the currency consumer, which will give an effective per-transaction cost.
amlorusso 8 months ago
@amlorusso And how & why a fractional lending devalues the assets? because of intervention by a obfuscation of "our " promissory obligations fraudulently perpetrated by all banks pre expansion , jrgenkratz fails to comprehend what happens at the root conception of money creation " ground floor " pre expansion, before the fraudulent exchange,his rhetoric is merely addressing the consequence or a secondary process of creation which is only a fictional expansion process that multiplies down not up.
chotaboy66 8 months ago
@chotaboy66 The advantage of an asset-backed currency compared to an non-asset backed currency is that if the currency fails you have an asset to exchange for the currency units, the asset being divided equally per unit of currency issued on the asset. Fractional-reserve means issuing more currency units relative to a 100% reserve system, which means that advantage is devalued compared to a 100% reserve system.
amlorusso 8 months ago
@amlorusso Circulation has to be at least equal to the value of obligation & equal to the value of all property to defeat deflation & inflation ,one has to look at why circulation is depleting faster than any injection of national debt even by a secondary process of expansion. Expansion is not creation rather expansion multiplies " down" eventually.How are deposits created if every nation is in debt ? Look at the obfuscation of the obligors promissory obligation that allows expansion to continue
chotaboy66 8 months ago
@amlorusso There are operating costs for the issuer of the currency. And these costs are normally more than (asyou don't receive interest on the notes you hold) covered by the returns to whatever investments the bank makes with your "deposited" assets. For full-reserve banking there is of course a resource cost (the opportunity cost of storing instead of using the assets), but this is different from transaction costs, and is much lesser with fractional-reserve banking (non-fiat-currencies too).
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
...bank free of charge) and transfers can be made completely costless. The price of using the currency does not lie in the transaction but in the risk, the risk of the receipt, digital or in paper form, not being redeemable. If it is not redeemable anymore, it will lose its value as long as people dont expect it to be redeemable in the future. This risk is not eliminated with bitcoins, but is actually higher. They are not backed up by anything, so their value is exclusively dependent on being..
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
I don't buy the transaction cost argument. If you look at bank notes historically, they have traded at par value. You lend the bank 10 ounces of gold, and the bank gives you a receipt of 10 ounces of gold, that is redeemable at any time, or (if the bank faces a bankrun) after its investments mature (according to contract, and usually with a certain compensation for the wait). These notes had transaction costs, yes. But today, these notes can be made digital (or historically you could phone the..
jrgenkratz 8 months ago
All currencies have there upsides and downsides!
Though bitcoin isn't backed by any commodity of intrinsic value e.g Gold or Silver and isn't anything physical you can hold
The upside is
A. Theres only going to be 21 million bit coins issued and they are issued with no interest attached. This means they should not be affected with devaluation or by hyper inflation
B. It's a non centralised currency and therefore can't be as a political or economic weapon by a specific group or goverment!
fredflint75 8 months ago
Brilliant video stef :D I'll be donating via bitcoin
krychamin 8 months ago
If you *want* to live with air pollution? Who would WANT that? You would have to choose that because you can't afford to live in an area with clean air, which you pretty much admit in the next sentence while trying to make it sound like a fair free choice has been made. I find this FINANCIAL VIOLENCE totally unacceptable.
fuckoverload 8 months ago
@fuckoverload "If you *want* to live with air pollution? Who would WANT that?"
Plenty of people, even you. Are you living out in the middle of the ocean or deep in the forest? No, you probably live in a suburb, or at least a town surrounded by people. Do people drive cars where you live? How do you get power for your house? How do you get food? All of these things potentially cause air pollution.
The same general idea with bitcoins: you get some benefits, and you give up some benefits.
HeyItzMeDawg 8 months ago
@HeyItzMeDawg I do not choose to live in pollution. It is forced upon me and I am deeply resentful of it.
fuckoverload 8 months ago
What happens to Bitcoin transactions when the state throws the internet kill switch? That is my major criticism.
Pointing guns at millions of individuals to steal individual pieces of metal one at a time throughout the world vs. pushing one button-- much easier to kill Bitcoin if they decided to.
GabrielKoulikov 8 months ago
I personally don't like bitcoin, but I'm all for competing currencies. What I don't like about bitcoins is that it is difficult to convince non computer geeks that they're valuable and to explain to them the concept. Gold and silver are much easier to understand, they have 6000 year history and they are promoted by rappers and pirate movies.
madass888 8 months ago
So what happens when the power goes out?
darkgrapeful 8 months ago
Nicely done! I am sending you .11 bitcoins to your link.
davincij15 8 months ago
I heard lulzsec been f**kin' with it lately
boohowdoy 8 months ago
At 8:00 you said a curious thing. "If you don't take price into account, you can't do an intelligent comparison." This actually highlights the greatest flaw in Bitcoin. It is inelastic. The value of each coin changes over time. This makes the determination of price for borrowing or lending incalculable. If I borrowed 100 bitcoin 6 months ago at 10%, I could have bought about 1 dollar worth of goods with it. If I wanted to pay that back today, I would need $2000 to $3000 worth of value.
TashiRogo 8 months ago
@TashiRogo "The value of each coin changes over time."
What makes you think that's true? The supply of bitcoins is currently growing by 50 bitcoins every 10 minutes; that's an increase of about 40% per year of the total supply; in addition, a whole bunch of people just heard about bitcoins this month and are jumping in to speculate. Hence the extreme volatility. Mass adoption of bitcoin in a few years will create sticky prices.
HeyItzMeDawg 8 months ago
@HeyItzMeDawg Do some research. The total Bitcoin pool is designed to never exceed 21 million coins.
TashiRogo 8 months ago
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@TashiRogo "Do some research. The total Bitcoin pool is designed to never exceed 21 million coins."
Your point? Did I say otherwise?
HeyItzMeDawg 8 months ago
I think the reason people are sceptical about Bitcoin having no hard assets, is the fear of not being able to maintain is scarcity. Now Bitcoin is supposed to at some point in time run into an absloute amount, meaning it won't suffer from the fluctuations of inflation. Much like in the past when people but hard assets on currentcy it was to ensure its value was based on how finite the said asset is, to prevent wild inflation rates.
navyboym 8 months ago
Still not convinced. Bitcoin depends, not only on electricity, but also on internet (at least for verification), on computer security (!), and personal hardware.
Electricity, computers, etc, all cost money; there's no "zero transaction cost" in bitcoin, even if the costs are diluted or hidden.
In spite of this, it may well succeed. To me It looks fragile.
And I just tend to remember Jim Roger's advice: "Invest in things you know".
dromeiro 8 months ago
@dromeiro Transactions depend on the internet, but you can store bitcoins on a flash drive or anywhere else you can put a file.
MoneyIsSilver 8 months ago
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This video is a huge waste of time... Bitcoins is cheaper and more volatile because its not backed by real assets. Ok! Got it. Should that take 7 min to explain?
IIArchonII 8 months ago
@IIArchonII So silver has not been volatile lately?
stefbot 8 months ago 12
@stefbot Admittedly it has been, but that volatility is the result of pure manipulation, nothing more. Anything else is frankly impossible once the fundamentals of silver are considered. There's hardly any physical silver remaining and even though everyone is producing on all cylinders, production is still lagging behind the comparatively minuscule demand that now exists. VERY few have entered the market and there are STILL delays in satisfying demand. I feel MUCH safer with silver than Bitcoins
IvanTheHeathen 8 months ago
@IIArchonII It's volatile because it's new and lacks liquidity due to the relatively few number of coins in existence. Once all 21 million (or so) coins are done the price will settle.
TreachMarkets 8 months ago
@IIArchonII The dollar isn't backed by any real assets but does it fluctuate wildly? No it decreases in value steadily. Bitcoin is a tiny market, you can move the price by a dollar just by buying or selling a few thousand dollars worth.
priapus512 8 months ago
@priapus512 Yes it is. Watch Stefan's video about human livestock. ;-)
The problem of bitcoins having no hard assets backing it up simple means that you are investing in thin air, and therefore it's price could simply go down to absolute zero in any moment as soon as people stops speculating with its value.
Bitcoins will never catch up; the need for every user having a host PTP running will prevent it from being a widespread form of internet payment; and it's impractical for offline use.
flyermay 8 months ago in playlist day
@flyermay My gold could go down to zero if the government confiscated it. Yeah there are certainly risks with bitcoin (more now when it's in it's infancy), I certainly wouldn't put my life savings in it, but there are risks with anything else you use as currency.
Secondly not every user has to run the mining software, and as for the physical aspect look up bitbills dot com.
priapus512 8 months ago
@priapus512 That's an entirely different case; bitcoins can go to zero in any moment without any intervention. Besides, if you are worried about confiscation, then you should invest in rare gold/silver like me (that will not be confiscated). ;-)
They don't have to run the mining software, but they need the host PTP to make any transaction; which makes it rather complicated for people who just want to use it as a currency, and useless offline.
flyermay 8 months ago
How do hard assets have a transaction cost?
I carry a coin with me and then I give it to a merchant. Where in there did I pay a premium?
aletoledo1 8 months ago
@aletoledo1 taxes pay for coins
stefbot 8 months ago 5
@stefbot - There's also the fact that hard assets require hard hands to physically move them to over to other hard hands and those said hands have to be within close proximity to each other.
Shezmu 8 months ago
@stefbot and for the police to combat counterfeiter's... well some counterfeiters :(
AnarchyEnsues 8 months ago
@aletoledo1 As someone who was a Liberty Dollar RCO and the builder of the silver marketplace for AOCS, I think I know more about using silver as a currency than most people.
The problem is that because of gresham's law you have to have a face value on silver currency that is higher than the cost of the metal in terms of the fiat you're competing against. Otherwise, no one will spend silver at spot because people spend the bad money before the good.
MoneyIsSilver 8 months ago
@aletoledo1 That's why freemason shills like silverfuturist, stellaconcepts, and H1INC all always talk about buying government currency that has face value of 'one dollar' on 1oz pieces because they know that those will never get circulated as money, while at the same time they will deride attempts at monetizing silver like Liberty Dollar and the American Open Currency Standard. Same reason they hate on bitcoin.
MoneyIsSilver 8 months ago
@aletoledo1 The weight of the coins, carrying and transporting and securing a significant amount.
TreachMarkets 8 months ago
@aletoledo1
Well, you use your time, wear on your shoes and probably use gasoline to get to where you will hand over that coin..
MigDanskeren 8 months ago
@MigDanskeren To use bitcoin though, I pay for power, pay for internet and likely pay for a computer as well. These "incidentals" can be spread out for many things though, like I use my computer for many things and I wear my shoes many didn't places. Therefore these seem to balance out.
Bitcoin is cool no doubt, but we should remember it's limitations. If society collapses, I'd rather have silver. If society never collapses, then bitcoin is then a whole lot more convenient than silver.
aletoledo1 8 months ago
@aletoledo1
If society "collapses" what are you gonna do w/your silver, eat it?
Silver and gold have "limitations" too.
If we devolve to a pre-industrial society, as your post suggests is a possibility, your silver will be as useful as a bitcoin.
ashane77 8 months ago
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@ashane77 "If we devolve to a pre-industrial society, as your post suggests is a possibility, your silver will be as useful as a bitcoin." Don't you think that barter will occur or did you think I was suggesting a "Mad Max" type of world? Pre-industrial societies used gold and silver as money, I see no reason to expect that not to happen yet again.
aletoledo1 8 months ago
I have to writte this, fraccional reserve banking is the root of all evil, I just said it, and I am happy fot it.
bezant1971 8 months ago
I imagine that the likely dominant currency of the future will be some derivative of precious metals
Similar to gold / silver ETFs which are future contracts where you have the option to ask for delivery, but just like with stocks, the incentive is to keep it as an electronic / paper market, thus the economy of scales reduces the transaction costs significantly
However it truly is speculation because we have the further thing from a free market in currency ie legal tender laws / capital gains
AssyrianRebel1 8 months ago
And because of the fact that we live in a world where currency is just so far removed from the free market I don't know if it's fair to consider bitcoin a product of a free market environment.
IMHO it more of a reaction to fiat currency, but this is not to say there's no merit in the system they've set up, it's quite fascinating. But hey when you have forced confiscation / shut down of things like e-gold it's hard to say if bitcoin would be doing so well otherwise.
AssyrianRebel1 8 months ago
Volunteer fire department up the street has "Buckle up! It's the law!" On the billboard in front. Not for safety... It is not about safety. At least when they put up signs saying "Don't drink and drive. You can't afford it" they are being honest.
Laws are not there to keep you and I safer, those laws are there to generate revenue. Rip all of the safety features out of cars and such and people would drive way safer. The safer you feel the more careless you are.
deadman12078 8 months ago
"The moment you have hard assets backing a currency," a government can seize it or tax is
ShoveTyranny 8 months ago
Also the reason why people want real tangible assets (with real world uses) is because when the shit hits the fan, the people will still have those hard assets with real life uses so they can trade it with other people.
Even paper dollars can be burnt for fuel or used for paper wall. Bitcoins is just that, 1s and 0s on a fricken computer hard drive and yes
uche007us 8 months ago
You know another scam that is free market and follows the non aggression policy? Quixtar. Yes yes, Bitcoin have gone through a few levels of evolution but its still the same scam under a different name. The original investors went in with little or zero risk and no are making out like bandits.
So keep pushing the pyramid/ pump and dump scheme, your subscribers sure will remember you when the shit hits the fan.
uche007us 8 months ago
Bitcoin could work in a free market, but it is not a free market. Businesses will never be allowed to accept them. If they advertise 'we accept bitcoins' it will be the same as 'we pay our employees under the table'. They will be aggressed against. And the way this fellow recently said you could buy at Amazon through selling your bitcoins against dollars to a newcomer, with which something is bought at Amazon, will fail as soon as no more new dollars flow in to convert all these transactions.
modelmark 8 months ago
listening to a libertarian carrying the banner for digital fiat currency after ALL the LOONG discussion against fiat currencies is pretty discomforting. By this analysis then there is nothing wrong with digital fiat dollars?
digital fiat currency = total enslavement
ISPs log data packets from IP addresses, so how is bitcoin impervious to corporate or federal control? IT ISN'T but by ALL means put your savings in bitcoins...might as well be buying magic beans at least then you'd have the beans
PennywisePatriots 8 months ago
@PennywisePatriots "digital fiat currency"
You don't know what fiat currency is, do you?
"ISPs log data packets from IP addresses, so how is bitcoin impervious to corporate or federal control?"
Encrypt a request and send it to a BitCoin anonymizer; make sure the anonymizer is registered under a DNS in a foreign country. A gazillion years later when the government finally brute-force cracks the encryption, you'll be long dead.
HeyItzMeDawg 8 months ago
@HeyItzMeDawg and next... a scanable tattoo for merchants to scan and deduct 'credits' from your account for purchases. The banksters have wanted a global digital currency for years to further control the herds. They can label it 'revolutionary' all they want to but there isn't anything new or revolutionary about it.
PennywisePatriots 8 months ago
for a free market you need sound money
but good luck with the FED monopoly money ^^
a Goldstandart is for the people so they can trust the goverment to handel Problem in the right way and get real value everytime they think the Bank or Gov screws around with it
for example you cant start a unnecessary War when you are on the Goldstandart (exept you are realy wealthy) because you cant devalue your currency to finance it
imperator22 8 months ago
Great analysis. There's no reason for physical money in a free market; we already use credit cards.
siggyboss 8 months ago
Does bitcoin have any guarantee against inflationary monetary policy i.e. creating new currency without a corresponding increase in goods and services for that currency to chase?
IKilled007 8 months ago
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I grab jello all the time. And you can't stop me, Stef.
MrStillmans 8 months ago
Thanks for making this. Will send you a few BTC.
MigDanskeren 8 months ago
BITCOINS WILL SAVE THE WORLD, STRIP THE POWER FROM THE SUPER ELITE OVERNIGHT! We can do this, but watch out guys. The elite will do something horrible, I just know it. This won't be a simple thing.
Expect Us.
Peaceandvalhalla 8 months ago