@HalcyonicRepose I read about this clip in Daniel Kahneman's book and he uses the words aggressive big triangle, terrified circle and joining forces to defeat the bully that gave me the idea that the big triangle was the villain. I can also see Big T saving his turf but he actually breaks it up in the end. Another story ... let us hear one when it comes up.
@rajeevvaid I also came hear straight from Kahneman's. I was expecting something much different. Mainly: As Big T was described as a bully, I expected them to have equal claim to House. Seeing Big T start off in House changed everything immediately: Big T was asserting its claim. This interpretation made sense until the "explosive finale", which left me utterly confused. I immediately wanted to watch it again, to find an explanation.
@ZacharySmith89 Curiosity Rocks's comment made me think that an object's theft caused Big T to become destructively angry...but now I'm remembering that Big T did not go back inside, to let the stimulation of the missing object(s) boil to a destructive point, so it seems more likely that the anger is directed at the other Agents rather than at Loss. More Hate than Grief.
Haha...I want so badly to watch it again! If this is how much I interpret into shapes' actions, how much more into people's?!
@ZacharySmith89 My desire to watch this again, to "validate" my interpretation, makes me want to conduct experiments: 1) Show this only once to people and have them write out an explanation of the Agents' personalities and intentions, backed by referencing specific Actions--but showing the ending to only half the participants. How would interpretations differ? Would those "surprised" by the ending have more difficulty--even remember Actions incorrectly--than those who were not? And other stuff..
@LsBaba Very cool. Did Dennett actually reference the movie in his talk? If so, in what way? I never considered that before, that is, how Dennett's view of the intentional stance can be somewhat symbolized by this film. Thanks for making the comment.
@wren802 I've recently developed an interest in the work of Dennett (and the other 3 horsemen) and this is all very new to me. Dennett had wanted to show a video clip of the animation, but had technical problems and showed just a still image. He used the movie as an example of how humans observe (evolved) reason in animal behaviour. Since I can't post a URL here, you can find the talk from Dennett's home page, in the "More videos" section, titled "@ UCLA February 4th, 2011".
@LsBaba Dennett is one of my philosophical "must reads" so I think it's great you're making the connections. He's got a new one out (with some other authors) about humor and jokes, but I highly recommend "Consciousnees Explained" and :Darwin's Dangerous Idea" - the essays in Brainstorms and "Mind Children" are also quite worth it. Very cool. I
@LsBaba Incidentally, I learned about the Heider-Simmel demo animation from friends at the Science Museum of Minnesota - I use it in autonomous art workshops to show how "folk psychology" can be applied to machines with the simplest of behaviors.
She was amused to see it after all the years... we spoke of it. She gave most of the credit to Heider for the project but she clearly had been quite involved. We had so many other things to discuss, but I could tell she was so touched by seeing this video from way back when. Yesterday she died at 3:05PM. She was a remarkable person.
That's really cool - it must be kind of wild to see work that she did years ago now floating around the interWeb. My interest comes from some friends of mine at the Exploratorium in San Fran. who liked to use this animation as a way of demonstrating how the simplest f forms can create a fairly complex narrative. The experience you had is really cool, finding something relatively obscure on YouTube and being able to interact with its originator. You should write an essay about the whole thing.
Even an ape wouldn't be able to attribute a concept called "win" to a casual event; the fact that you "wanted" a particular outcome - especially something called "winning" - suggests that you were attributing intentionality to these little shapes. I think the verdict is still out on whether or not apes can do that, but I'm no expert. Anyhow, your experience was exactly what the creators of the animation wanted to demonstrate. Good job. You get an "A".
I just had that in the university, but in the context of biological movements, which autistic children don't perceive as easily as we do and this is an example for social perception which differs in autistic children as well. They just see two triangles and a dot and hardly understand the "story" behind it. pretty amazing... Thanks for uploading it!
@1AbsinthFee1 Well, I have AS and got it just fine, but that's a bit different from actual autism. I have a friend who has HFA though and I doubt he'd get it.
@SepherStar I have AS (and don't believe there is a genuine distinction between AS and autism) and I find it bizarre and amusing that people usually look at this and say the triangles and circle represent people with various feelings and relationships to one another! I
@Squitchtweak I do believe there is a distinction as autism involves significant speech delays while AS does not. But I think clinicians can be sloppy with diagnosis, and even the diagnostic criteria does not encompass all Hans Asperger described.
It's amazing how much of this we do in the video game world. Certainly, we are using more than triangles and circles, but there is a lot of stuff that people say is going on in our games that really isn't.
This is quite a good demonstration of a humans natural social psychology.
Nothing says that the shapes are alive they are just moving but you tell me that when the circle was alone with the big triangle that you didnt relate that to bullying or fear or what not.
Narrative thats something i didn't consider when i watched this when i watched this two things about narrative did go through my head, I myself only really described what was going on with examples of it in real life, secondondly after at one point very briefly my mind drifted and the idea of something speaking over this and describing the events like a narrator did crop up :)
Yea, I think it's amazing that these relatively abstract things can start to create a story in our heads. That's interesting about the "voice" in your head. That's the bit I'm really interested in.
according to baddeley and hitch ( they guys that came up with the working model of memory) the voice in your head is known as your phonoilogical/articulatory loop which had 2 parts to it
the phonological store is the "inner ear"
th articulatory control system "inner voice".
I like to understand how the mind will try to interpret things like this as it helps to manipulate/trick it. which is handy for vertain things like first impressions and business meetings etc.
That's really cool - I love those terms, particularly "phonological" - I'm actually working on a couple of art pieces now (a record player that plays both sides of phonograph at the same time and a tape machine that plays and records simultaneously) 'cause what I'm interested in is building "phonological" systems that force the "articulatory" system to break down/collapse. It's nice to have these terms to go with the art works. THANKS!
The little triangle is distracting the big triangle so the circle can burgle the house. Then they run off.
CuriosityRocks 1 month ago
Everyone wants the little triangles to win, why do you assume that they are the "good" ones?
Very interesting.
HalcyonicRepose 2 months ago
Did you see the way BigTriangle defended his turf after the Smalls came to terrorize his territory again?
He was busy pre-emptively interrogating SmallCircle when the other terrorist SmallTriangle came to SmallCircle's aid!
Sadly, they got away.
(Actually, I thought Big Triangle was a bully, this clip needed an alternate story line.)
HalcyonicRepose 2 months ago
@HalcyonicRepose I read about this clip in Daniel Kahneman's book and he uses the words aggressive big triangle, terrified circle and joining forces to defeat the bully that gave me the idea that the big triangle was the villain. I can also see Big T saving his turf but he actually breaks it up in the end. Another story ... let us hear one when it comes up.
rajeevvaid 1 month ago
@rajeevvaid I also came hear straight from Kahneman's. I was expecting something much different. Mainly: As Big T was described as a bully, I expected them to have equal claim to House. Seeing Big T start off in House changed everything immediately: Big T was asserting its claim. This interpretation made sense until the "explosive finale", which left me utterly confused. I immediately wanted to watch it again, to find an explanation.
ZacharySmith89 1 month ago
@ZacharySmith89 Curiosity Rocks's comment made me think that an object's theft caused Big T to become destructively angry...but now I'm remembering that Big T did not go back inside, to let the stimulation of the missing object(s) boil to a destructive point, so it seems more likely that the anger is directed at the other Agents rather than at Loss. More Hate than Grief.
Haha...I want so badly to watch it again! If this is how much I interpret into shapes' actions, how much more into people's?!
ZacharySmith89 1 month ago
@ZacharySmith89 My desire to watch this again, to "validate" my interpretation, makes me want to conduct experiments: 1) Show this only once to people and have them write out an explanation of the Agents' personalities and intentions, backed by referencing specific Actions--but showing the ending to only half the participants. How would interpretations differ? Would those "surprised" by the ending have more difficulty--even remember Actions incorrectly--than those who were not? And other stuff..
ZacharySmith89 1 month ago
Farewell, Commander.
Platitudinous9000 4 months ago
0:55 - OMG RAPE
IncredibleGoliath 9 months ago
Yeah, I'm gonna get me some circle tail.
holycrapyousuck 10 months ago 2
Found this via a talk given by Daniel Dennett on the subject of "Intentional Stance", at UCLA, Feb 4, 2011.
LsBaba 10 months ago 5
@LsBaba Very cool. Did Dennett actually reference the movie in his talk? If so, in what way? I never considered that before, that is, how Dennett's view of the intentional stance can be somewhat symbolized by this film. Thanks for making the comment.
wren802 10 months ago
@wren802 I've recently developed an interest in the work of Dennett (and the other 3 horsemen) and this is all very new to me. Dennett had wanted to show a video clip of the animation, but had technical problems and showed just a still image. He used the movie as an example of how humans observe (evolved) reason in animal behaviour. Since I can't post a URL here, you can find the talk from Dennett's home page, in the "More videos" section, titled "@ UCLA February 4th, 2011".
LsBaba 10 months ago
@LsBaba Dennett is one of my philosophical "must reads" so I think it's great you're making the connections. He's got a new one out (with some other authors) about humor and jokes, but I highly recommend "Consciousnees Explained" and :Darwin's Dangerous Idea" - the essays in Brainstorms and "Mind Children" are also quite worth it. Very cool. I
wren802 10 months ago
@LsBaba Incidentally, I learned about the Heider-Simmel demo animation from friends at the Science Museum of Minnesota - I use it in autonomous art workshops to show how "folk psychology" can be applied to machines with the simplest of behaviors.
wren802 10 months ago
@LsBaba who are the other three "horsemen"?
davidfajar 1 week ago
@davidfajar The other three Horsemen of [New] Atheism are Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens.
LsBaba 1 week ago
Big triangular bully!
nothingnesswithouten 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Triangle man hates particle man. They have a fight. Triangle wins. Triangle man.
garyemiller 1 year ago
How amazing to this video after having heard about the research. Thank you for uploading this!
dmaranan 1 year ago
lol
SepherStar 1 year ago
if anyone is interessted, I did a flash version of the video that I could give if someone needed it
tardigrade22 1 year ago
She was amused to see it after all the years... we spoke of it. She gave most of the credit to Heider for the project but she clearly had been quite involved. We had so many other things to discuss, but I could tell she was so touched by seeing this video from way back when. Yesterday she died at 3:05PM. She was a remarkable person.
ptwnbratche 1 year ago
That's really cool - it must be kind of wild to see work that she did years ago now floating around the interWeb. My interest comes from some friends of mine at the Exploratorium in San Fran. who liked to use this animation as a way of demonstrating how the simplest f forms can create a fairly complex narrative. The experience you had is really cool, finding something relatively obscure on YouTube and being able to interact with its originator. You should write an essay about the whole thing.
wren802 1 year ago
I showed her this video today and she was thrilled to see it. What is your interest in this?
ptwnbratche 1 year ago
no but i will tomorrow when I see her next.
ptwnbratche 1 year ago
I just spent some time with Marianne Simmel today. She is a remarkable woman!
ptwnbratche 1 year ago
@ptwnbratche Very cool. Did you talk about this particular experiment?
wren802 1 year ago
thanks for uploading...i'm getting tested tomorrow on this...
WestHamUtd 2 years ago
LOL I just thought this was cute :D I wanted to the little triangle to win! Sigh .. guess Im no more evolved than an ape or something ....
unimoggie 2 years ago
Even an ape wouldn't be able to attribute a concept called "win" to a casual event; the fact that you "wanted" a particular outcome - especially something called "winning" - suggests that you were attributing intentionality to these little shapes. I think the verdict is still out on whether or not apes can do that, but I'm no expert. Anyhow, your experience was exactly what the creators of the animation wanted to demonstrate. Good job. You get an "A".
wren802 2 years ago 4
im using this for an imagination paper in a philosophy class rather than psychology, but many thanks for posting this video!
tarzan959 2 years ago
I just had that in the university, but in the context of biological movements, which autistic children don't perceive as easily as we do and this is an example for social perception which differs in autistic children as well. They just see two triangles and a dot and hardly understand the "story" behind it. pretty amazing... Thanks for uploading it!
1AbsinthFee1 2 years ago
@1AbsinthFee1 Well, I have AS and got it just fine, but that's a bit different from actual autism. I have a friend who has HFA though and I doubt he'd get it.
SepherStar 1 year ago
@SepherStar I have AS (and don't believe there is a genuine distinction between AS and autism) and I find it bizarre and amusing that people usually look at this and say the triangles and circle represent people with various feelings and relationships to one another! I
Squitchtweak 1 year ago
@Squitchtweak I do believe there is a distinction as autism involves significant speech delays while AS does not. But I think clinicians can be sloppy with diagnosis, and even the diagnostic criteria does not encompass all Hans Asperger described.
SepherStar 1 year ago
Thanx dude for putting it up...was looking for this for a long time.....
viveeks 3 years ago
It's amazing how much of this we do in the video game world. Certainly, we are using more than triangles and circles, but there is a lot of stuff that people say is going on in our games that really isn't.
IADaveMark 3 years ago
This is quite a good demonstration of a humans natural social psychology.
Nothing says that the shapes are alive they are just moving but you tell me that when the circle was alone with the big triangle that you didnt relate that to bullying or fear or what not.
godking1212 3 years ago
Exactly. It also tends to display the power that narrative has in the human thought process.
wren802 3 years ago
Narrative thats something i didn't consider when i watched this when i watched this two things about narrative did go through my head, I myself only really described what was going on with examples of it in real life, secondondly after at one point very briefly my mind drifted and the idea of something speaking over this and describing the events like a narrator did crop up :)
godking1212 3 years ago
Yea, I think it's amazing that these relatively abstract things can start to create a story in our heads. That's interesting about the "voice" in your head. That's the bit I'm really interested in.
wren802 3 years ago
according to baddeley and hitch ( they guys that came up with the working model of memory) the voice in your head is known as your phonoilogical/articulatory loop which had 2 parts to it
the phonological store is the "inner ear"
th articulatory control system "inner voice".
I like to understand how the mind will try to interpret things like this as it helps to manipulate/trick it. which is handy for vertain things like first impressions and business meetings etc.
godking1212 3 years ago
That's really cool - I love those terms, particularly "phonological" - I'm actually working on a couple of art pieces now (a record player that plays both sides of phonograph at the same time and a tape machine that plays and records simultaneously) 'cause what I'm interested in is building "phonological" systems that force the "articulatory" system to break down/collapse. It's nice to have these terms to go with the art works. THANKS!
wren802 3 years ago
awesome, :)
glad i could help
godking1212 3 years ago