I'll never understand Linux fanboys. There are literally no good programs for Linux. Good flipping luck trying to get a decent video editor or music composing software for Linux. Most dev tools on Linux are available on all other systems, and then some. Windows doesn't have a terminal, which kind of sucks, but I've been working in Windows doing EVERYTHING just fine. Tested version of Linux are stable, but why the flying fuck should I care when I can't do anything on it??? Sigh...
It's funny, my Linux desktop stays up for weeks. When I ran windows, I had to reboot every few days. I am an end user. I like that I don't have to reboot.
@arthursucks The normal average job blogs doesn't have their computer running for weeks, normal end users could care less about that. I have no problems running windows linux on the other hand.... and yeah i'm not an average computer user and if I have trouble with linux what hope is there for the average user? This is one of the reasons why it only gets adapted by computer geeks,the sooner the linux community get this thru their head the better.
It seems like your definition of average end user is very specific. What exactly defines an end user? I know uses who don't know what OS they're running.
@itsbrad212 The only thing with that speaking as an arch user myself is that you have to wait for the time out period which can probably configured in one of the files but it once again it means editing thru the command line or waiting for the default time out which can make installing/updating really slow painful exercise.
@codebean I see what you're saying, but that would be really easy to circumvent. I'm actually an Arch developer, so maybe I can bring that up (if it hasn't already been implemented). Remember though, there's a timeout time for a reason. ;-)
The repos are more secure then you running out and downloading off some site, or bittorrent and installing something that have spyware,virus, trojan etc.. It is more convenient and one gets all their updates when available for all thir installed software, can you do that with windows hell no.
@nectarineblue Convenient? How convenient is it when you get a bad mirror? Oh yeah i've had that happen in linux before. What do you do then? Well you have to edit your sources list through the command line, what normal person is going to want to do that? NO ONE!!!! As for being secure no sorry, people can use dns service attacks & because you're running as root they will have control of your computer.
i would like to see you get millions of people working together to produce an operating system.. as for bugs in windows its a joke.. if i find something and tell the public m$ will cry that i shouldn't do that , that it makes it prone for attackers, whall in fact it makes the ignorant blind to the truth that they are faulty. linux community fixes those bugs right away. linux media center will run for years compared to windows media center running 24/7 as a pvr that will need rebooted daily.
@nectarineblue Linux does not fix bugs right away stop bullshiting, i know this personally there was a bug in the kernal that stopped my internet connection from working it didn't get fix RIGHT AWAY!!! In fact it took quite awhile, which meant I couldn't use the latest versions of linux in fact there wasn't many versions of linux i could use, that's how BAD linux is when it comes to bugginess.
@CryptedTales Yes, I know it started from Darkone's 'challenge'... and I was referring to the whole discussion and not just this video. I did leave a comment on Darkone's video but he probably deleted it since it was more suited to his derogatory tone.
Anyway, all I hear is Linux sucks because it is not Windows. If you want something that is like Windows, then you're not going to get any better than Windows. Linux is not Windows. Accept it or move on. Don't start provoking flame wars.
@librano My intention wasn't to start a flame war, but merely to try & get hax0rpr0n to understand that I think he was missing the point of what Darkone was trying to get across. The point is that for linux to become more prevalent it needs to offer something of value to the end user that windows doesn't & atm I don't really there is anything more it offers to the user, however thats just my opinion. Its not good enough to say linux isn't windows & just move along that wont help linux get better
@codebean The only reason I would want Linux to become more prevalent is for better hardware and closed source application support. Apart from that, market share is really irrelevant. However, I already deal with this by buying well supported hardware and using FOSS. And it works perfectly for what I (and most people) need.
Yes, it is important to look at what other OSs are doing. MS and Apple do that too. But making Linux like Windows will make it worse, not better. And many will agree.
@librano Not necessarily there is already a number of things in linux that are windows like & no linux user that i know complains & says it's shit or they don't like it. You draw inspiration from the good things that other platforms are doing to get better. Look at windows 7 mobile it drew inspiration from ios but has it's own uniqueness to it, this is what ms did to make it better, linux needs to do the same.
@librano The point isn't because it's not windows. It's because shit works with windows without you fucking with it. You push a button and it works.
Do you wanna know something else that's not Windows that end users like if they got it for free? A Mac because you don't have to hit "Ctrl+Alt+F2" to "save your box".
A Mac is not Windows, but it would overtake windows if there were Mac Clones because it's easy to use and shit works.
The point was what advantage does linux have as a end user tool
@freetard1337 'shit' works for me in Linux without 'fucking' with. I really don't care if average Joe can't wrap his head around Linux... or whether he uses it. Does anyone complain that not everybody has got the chops to drive in Formula 1?
That said, the Linux desktop has reached a stage where a user that is oblivious to the OS can use it without the need to do any hacking or crap like that. Of course, I would always recommend such users have adequate support available like any OS.
@librano "Does anyone complain that not everybody has got the chops to drive in Formula 1?"
This isn't a fuckin' car. I don't know where you're going with this analogy. You're implying Linux is faster, but harder to use. Even so, the point of the challenge is to see what linux has to offer as a main-stream desktop that windows doesn't except for freedom, free beer and free from viruses
It's not about which is better, it's about will people buy it if it was closed, costs money and had viruses
@librano Excuse me, I meant to say "It's not about which has a better core" Excuse me, but there's there's a character limit and I used all of my characters.
It doesn't mater if it's GPL, it doesn't matter if it doesn't cost money because linux users wouldn't use gimp if it was $700 and closed source, but they would all use photoshop if the license was changed to GPL, it doesn't matter if it's "virus free" because it's not the same idiot that runs viruses as administrator will run it as root.
1. There are many distros that are paid distro: RedHat, SLED, Xandros, Mandriva.
2. Some distros offer paid support: Ubuntu, Mint.
Do they have clients? Yes.
3. Devs need to eat. Paid apps mean more dev time going into these apps which means these apps would probably be much better. As it is most critical FOSS is written by paid devs. And FOSS as it is is sufficient for most normal users.
@librano #1 + #2 well, the free as in price argument is useless if you pay for it.
#3. Devs are more likely to get money to sell to more people and more people use windows. So, it would be logical to go to a big platform like windows or iOS.
@freetard1337 You asked if people would pay for FOSS if it wasn't FOSS. I'm saying they are willing to pay for FOSS even if/because it is FOSS. Many FOSS projects (including the ones you mention) are cross platform.
You keep conjuring these far out scenarios. Is there a point you are trying to make?
@librano Linux doesn't have the standard pro apps.
People that work at a office can't use open office because it sucks, but they can still use a Mac because Microsoft makes office for mac. (I thought they were enemies)
People buy the hip and cool iPhone, but it requires iTunes to activate and apple doesn't make iTunes for linux and that's a deal breaker.
Photo pros use photoshop and it's worth $700 to them and those people wouldn't pay $100 for gimp if it was paid and there's no CS for Linux.
@freetard1337 That's why I said in the beginning use what works for you.
Speaking of standards, all ISO standards are supported in Linux. If you choose to lock yourself in with proprietary apps & formats and closed hardware then that is your choice and I couldn't care less.
I would really like to meet this user who cannot use a package manager but is a Photoshop pro. Care to introduce him to me?
For Office, CS, iTunes, ask the people who make them for Linux versions if you want.
@librano Like it or not, people already locked themselves in, they just want to push a button and shit works and those companies are the standard, it may be closed, but it's the fuckin' standard and they won't develop for Linux. That's the real world, live with it!
@librano "standards?" What are these standards you speak of. You use Linux. Linux has no fucking standards. HEY LETS USE KDE, NO GNOME, NO FLUXBOX. DOES THAT USE GTK OR QT? Oh wait how about a standard package manager? RPM, DEB, ARCH, Etc. Where are your standards? Standard distro? nope, standard email client? nope. Standard anything? ..... anything?
@JamesManes I specifically mentioned ISO standards.
As for the projects you list, that is called freedom and choice. If you cannot handle it, use a distro that makes these decisions for you. If you are completely averse to freedom and choice then don't use Linux. That's fine too.
Yes, audio is a bit crazy especially for devs. No one claimed Linux is flawless. But most users use what comes with their distro, others pick and choose. I use Phonon and ALSA, occasionally JACK.
@JamesManes Office is not part of Windows... but I get what you mean. And doesn't .odt support have to be installed as a plugin? I'm not sure.
I don't see how any of those things are hindered by having competing projects. No one complains that there are too many web browsers for Windows... and that we should only have one.
@librano Office supports .odt out of the box, and WordPad (which comes with windows) also can save as .odt.
Also, it is ok to have many windows browsers, as they all run on a centralized platform, Windows. However, it is total ass when you have multiple package managers. When there are multiple package managers shit hits the fan as it is a complex mess to convert packages. If you switch your package manager (lets say opensuse to DEB) your entire repo is fucked and you lose update support.
@JamesManes There is no situation where you have to switch package managers... let alone have that as a method of resolving a problem. On the contrary, that is strongly discouraged if at all allowed. Anyone trying it is guaranteed to break his system.
Always install from repos. With the size of repos in major distros plus 3rd party repos, that should cover most needs. If you step outside this, the onus is on you to know what you are doing.
@librano The linux kernel does not have a standard way (other than compiling which end users will not do) to install applications. Windows has .exe or .msi (both integrated into the system and non-removable). Linux has.... compiling. Or .bin, which is also hard as you must chmod it every time. So now you rely upon .rpm, .dep etc. Well the sad part is not every software dev makes a version for both. They usually do .deb and source or .rpm or source. It's really annoying and messy.
@JamesManes Beginners should use a distro like Ubuntu or Mint. Every Linux app I have used has an Ubuntu package. If they use a niche distro, they are most probably not beginners and are able to handle the situ.
In Linux, if something doesn't work you are not 'fucked'. The user can seek help either getting someone to package the said app, help them learn how to install/package it themselves, etc. I maintain a few packages myself. It is not hard for anyone of reasonable intelligence.
@librano Why worry about what distro to get. Why worry about finding help on compiling a package. Why not just use windows and be done with it. End uesrs don't want to learn how to make their computer work, they want to sit down and use it. Windows provides that environment, Linux does not.
@JamesManes "uesrs don't want to learn how to make their computer work, they want to sit down and use it"
Ironic since that is exactly why I use Linux. No need to buy an OS, activate it, then go through the hassle of securing it... by buying even more software which slows it down..., And then having to now search for apps to actually do stuff... which may cost more money. Just download and throw on a distro like Mint and have everything working out of the box.
@librano "No need to buy an OS, activate it, then go through the hassle of securing it" Considering that most ppl buy windows with their pc, there isn't much need for the first part, & that stuff is still far easier than having to compile from source.
"by buying even more software which slows it down.." Really like what???
"., And then having to now search for apps to actually do stuff" Really like what???
As for using ubuntu i'd never recommend that buggy pos for a first time user.
@codebean Yet again you compare a best case scenario in Windows vs a worst case scenario in Linux. I can think of only Gentoo and LFS where compiling is the norm. So your point is moot. Over here most desktops are sold without OS and my laptop came with Linux preinstalled.
-Antivirus, antispyware, antiwhatever.
-An office suite, a decent photo manager, Flash, image editor. What apps does Windows come with anyway?
I prefer Mint over Ubuntu for newbies but it's not like Windows is bug free.
Why is it that Windows and OS X are picked up and used by end users so well but Linux is not? Linux is free and people know about it. If it is free and just as good as windows or os x why is it not the most popular?
@JamesManes No, most people do not know about Linux. The few that do usually only know FUD similar to your points of view... and hence they do not try it. Of course, like anything new, there is a learning curve involved and many people could not be bothered to learn something new when they are used to Windows.
@librano "Over here most desktops are sold without OS and my laptop came with Linux preinstalled." Thats not the norm i'm comparing a best case scenario with windows coz it's the norm. Granted compiling from source is not the norm, it's the worst case, but for windows there is no worse case scenario, there's only one way & it's easy same with osx, that's what needs to happen linux. And yes i've had to compile from source before on systems other than gentoo/LFS.
@codebean I could go with you to the mall and show you that the majority of desktop machines on display running Linux... all sold as without OS. More laptops come with Windows but a decent number come with Linux. Broader horizons may help...
@librano I'm sure you could go to that store that you've searched long & hard to find, which sold linux pcs, but if you want the real pepsi challenge, how about googling computers & see how many stores sell linux? Not only that but even with preconfigured linux pcs they still don't work, there's vid of someone buying an ubuntu pc that didn't work with her usb modem, it did with her old windows pc.
@codebean LOL The mall is hardly a long and hard search.
The good old bastion of hardware support... My brother is a CS student (pro user) who owns a Dell Inspiron laptop which came with XP. Recently, he upgraded to Win7 in which the touchpad support is atrocious. Dell only provides Vista drivers which do not work in 7 and MS does not fully support it. He has had to buy a USB mouse to get full functionality back. In the words of James, "He is fucked."
In other words he was trying to use an os that was meant to run on his computer, and what his computer wasn't designed to run on in the first place. I find it hard to believe that the vista drivers dont work with 7 as the driver model is meant to be compatible across those two os. Hell i've even been able to get xp drivers to work with win7. Try doing the same with linux when they break compatibility unless you want to start hacking source code you're fucked.
@codebean bit. ly/fMki51 <-- 4 out of the first 5 are with Linux.
bit. ly/QGqO1 <-- the touchpad issue.
So the conclusion is that you should use an OS on and with hardware with which it is compatible. Simply by checking for compatibility before purchasing, now all my hardware (incl. peripherals) is supported natively in Linux with open drivers.
Without 3rd party support Windows' hardware support isn't anything to write home about.
@codebean As for my own USB 3G modem, setup in Ubuntu is simply a matter of choosing my country and ISP from a list in the network manager after which my mobile broadband, wired and wireless connections all appear in a neat list together.
In Windows, it requires installing and configuring 3rd party software. Clearly a step behind in user experience.
@librano Doesn't matter what i'm talking about is when you don't have the drivers, with windows installing the drivers is easy, in linux it requires compiling which like i said NO USER SHOULD HAVE TO DO!!!! If the oss community ever want linux to become popular that will have to change.
@librano Drivers and Linux? Ok how about this issue.
I have an HP Envy 15 with an ATI 5830 mobility. The official ATI drivers are shit, and the opensource ATI drivers are again, shit. I get half the framerates that I do in windows. ATIs fault, but still not MY problem. I have a multitouch trackpad. The trackpad is part of the button. Linux cannot fully use the functionality of this trackpad. No 2 finger touch, no 2 finger scroll, zoom, pinch. In fact, I'll upload you a video.
@JamesManes Indeed, it is ATI's fault that their Linux drivers suck. Did HP provide a driver for your touchpad? If I had your laptop I'd probably run Win7 on it... coz that is what works. Not that I'd give money for something with poor Linux support... I stick to buying well supported hardware and that works well for me. It's not the greatest situation to be in, but getting use Linux is worth it.
@librano Some drivers on all linux distros, with varying sucess, something NO USER SHOULD HAVE TO DO!!!! I pretty sure i've had to compile gnomad before on opensuse, it wouldn't surprise me as opensuses repos are quite small, something that is a major disadvantage if you're using that distro as the likelyhood of having to compile from source greatly increases.
@codebean Drivers in Linux are built into the kernel. Only closed drivers e.g. NVidia and ATI require specially compiled kernel images and most popular distros already have these packages in the repos. Now, I haven't used closed drivers in ages so I may be out of touch... something specific would help.
AFAIK, Rhythmbox, Banshee and Amarok all support the Nomad using common libraries and Gnomad is a dead project. The need to compile Gnomad simply does not exist... even in OpenSuse.
@librano Nope my ethernet drivers weren't in some distros a few years back. Same goes with web camera etc... had to compile them by source.
Gnomad maybe dead now, wasn't a few years ago. Oh BTW how do u think haxor got his sound working? I can bet it wasn't without a lot of hacking, LOL typical linux.
@codebean A few years ago in Linux is an eternity. I have never encountered an ethernet card that didn't work in Linux. I don't know what webcams you are buying but all webcam that use follow standards are supported. And they are the majority.
haxor was probably doing some audio work... so he probably had to install and configure JACK... which is meant for pro audio work... *not for normal users*... (before you have your 'AHA!' moment).
@librano As for image editors,flash,office,u have 2 do the same with some linux distros like ubuntu,pclinux & fedora (office),not only do u have to do that but with ubuntu & fedora you have to install the codecs by hand, of course you can use mint instead for that, but that's illegal depending on what country you live in.
You don't need to buy av & it can work well without slowing down your system, in fact you already know how well it works i've already pointed this out. So linux ain't easier.
@codebean I was comparing to Mint. Even then, all those and more are readily available via the package manager.
Gladly, most of the world has evolved beyond those silly laws.
If you want full protection, you have to pay... why else would those antiviruses have paid versions? Unless the antivirus is doing nothing, it is consuming CPU cycles and RAM.
@librano Free versions have ads which give them revenue anyway. MSE however does not spam ads and it is decent. No matter what, you need common sense to stay secure with ANY OS. Windows more than others as it is attacked more. For example I use MSE and it has never detected anything yet because I simply do not do stupid stuff like download silly_funtime_and_tacos.exe. End users will though because they are not smart enough to see it is a scam.
@librano "all those and more are readily available via the package manager."Which is the equivalent of downloadin them on windows something you were complaining about.
Um no those silly laws still exist,hence why there r still linux distros who dont ship them,else y have fluendo?
Um no there is windows security essentials which is very light and does a decent job.The free av i use is the same, it even stopped that poc vunerability u pointed out.The proof is in the pudding wouldn't you say?
@codebean There is an advantage in searching in a package manager for an app as opposed to searching on Google. Mint's package manager even integrates user ratings and reviews. The user experience is way better. Even Apple knows this, hence their new OS X app store. MS will follow soon.
Use of open source decoders is legal in most of the world. Though, props to Fluendo.
If only decent security is good enough for you... that's all well and good.
@librano If you are implying popular distros such as ubuntu are secure then just simply LOL. Do you browse packetstorm? Ubuntu has security flaws everywhere you look. And Mint has had their server running slackware compromised, twice. Jee, secure OS you are running there guys.
@JamesManes I've been through the security discussion at length with you already. And I think I proved my point there.
Packetstorm... dunno if it is the one you gave earlier but the overwhelming majority was vulnerability to DDoS attacks... Nothing spectacular. Care to find something more juicy?
@JamesManes No file is executable until made executable. And then it is not executed until a user does so. Even if noexec option is used, an interpreter could run a script. The better approach is to prevent unauthorized access. Keep in mind these are user desktops, not CIA servers. Care to elaborate on your argument?
Funny story indeed. Though that is 3yrs old and a clear example of PEBKAC. It doesn't say much about the system. Nice find... must have been a deep search in the archives...
@librano Meh, ratings mean nothing last night there was a review for two movies one had a higher rating than the other, but one with the higher rating was shit. The only way to really find out if the app is what you want is to download it & give it a try.
4. You talk about Linux being too hard for clueless users but Windows being great if the user knows how and what to do. Is that a fair comparison? If I were going to give Linux to a clueless user, I would be their sysadmin and lock them out of root. I would do the same in Windows, though UAC isn't as secure. If the user is tech savvy, Linux is a techie's dream OS.
@freetard1337 Since we're asking crazy questions, answer this question:
If Windows did not have all the 3rd party apps, drivers, games, etc... let's say only Windows and other MS products... still closed and paid for. Which OS would you use? Windows+MS apps or Ubuntu and the apps in its repos free and open source?
@librano OK, Good Drivers, apps and games is a deal breaker it doesn't matter if they cost money or closed source, if I can't install want I want on my computer or use the full power of my video card that ATI/Nvidia makes the card those are deal breakers.
GPL/Free shit isn't a deal breaker and the virus thing is based on user stupidity the same administrator that clicks yes on a UAC Prompt will put in their password on Gksudo on a virus installer.
@freetard1337 "same administrator that clicks yes on a UAC Prompt will put in their password on Gksudo on a virus installer"
I disagree, since the Linux user will be installing from official, tested and trusted repositories... whereas the Windows user could be installing Bonzi Buddy for all we know.
@librano lolno, if the same idiot windows user was tricked by an email or a website to install trojan, the same person that would click "Yes" on a UAC Prompt will give it root.
@freetard1337 There is a big menu entry labeled "Software Center". You say this mythical user will refuse to deal with the CLI at all, but will somehow be tricked into installing a trojan via email? Even if he was sent a package, he will be warned before installing. Two minutes' explanation that apps should only be installed from the Software Center should solve that.
If all of that is not enough, I am really curious how this idiot has survived this long IRL.
@freetard1337 OSX has a good amount of underlying code taken from FreeBSD. Apple does a great job hiding the BSD internals from the end user, why do you assume a Linux distribution cannot do the same?
@freetard1337 Over at Apple, they receive a nice fat salary for the work they do. In the Linux world, it's virtually all volunteer work. If YOU don't feel that the Linux desktop experience is up to par, then YOU should do something about it. ;-) All of us sitting around and moping over how difficult Linux is to use is utter bullshit. And quite frankly, I don't necessarily want Linux to go mainstream, as corporations/the general public always find a way to screw with great software.
@JamesManes You have an argument there with standardization there, although I would rebut and say that that is mainly due to the market share that a company has. And quite frankly, I don't recall hearing that corporations had the ability to standardize their own software, rather the consumer has that power (but that's not really a counter-argument, more of me just pointing something out). If nobody purchased Microsoft products, then Windows would not be a standard desktop operating system.
@JamesManes Now, on the topic of "perfect" and "better" applications. That is completely subjective, and not even a semi-strong argument. You may feel that Adobe After Effects is perfected software, while others may believe otherwise. You're entitled to your opinion, which I will respect, and I'm entitled to my own. Professional development does not require money. If that was true, then my OpenBSD server would be much less secure than, say, a Windows Server 2008 box, et cetera.
As for dev apps, I don't know any of the logic, syntax and I can't memorize API calls, but I believe the right way to do coding is to learn the language and just use a text editor and a CLI compiler/interpretor.
Example: Web design classes shouldn't teach Dreamweaver, they should teach HTML,JS,CSS,AJAX, etc with just an editor with syntax highlighting in case you fuck up.
My logic is if you're a Dev, you shouldn't use push button solutions because you'll be dependent on the button maker.
totally agree with you dude, i mean i haven't used linux in a while, but i know how it works and let me tell you, as PC repair tech the last thing i want to be doing is getting anymore dirty with software than i already do with hardware.
everything from video playback, sound windows just does it better, i can't encode on linux with any new x264 builds, shit just does NOT work
and "more stable" i've got W7 x64 running for weeks without restarting, been like that for 8 months since installation
@VincentX202 About sound being better on windows... Well, if I was an audio Pro, Ideally, I would use Linux for low latency recording with a real-time kernel and mess with the nice settings of jack and the recording program and then reboot into Windows or Hackintosh because the only way to get a Soundblaster Live 24-Bit (The best sound card) to work in Leopard (Snow Leopard sucks) is to do a Hackintosh.
I think Linux would be better for recording, but editing would be better on Windows/OSX.
Hi. I am not even going to go into your false statements in this video...
I don't get the point of this discussion. A computer OS is a tool, not a club or a religion. If Windows works for you, use it; if Linux doesn't, then don't. There is absolutely no sense in disrupting another community to tickle your own ego. I, for one, have been using Linux as my main desktop OS (and almost exclusively) for more than 6 years. Linux isn't flawless, but it is the best IMO.
I'll never understand Linux fanboys. There are literally no good programs for Linux. Good flipping luck trying to get a decent video editor or music composing software for Linux. Most dev tools on Linux are available on all other systems, and then some. Windows doesn't have a terminal, which kind of sucks, but I've been working in Windows doing EVERYTHING just fine. Tested version of Linux are stable, but why the flying fuck should I care when I can't do anything on it??? Sigh...
PoliticalHell 1 year ago
It's funny, my Linux desktop stays up for weeks. When I ran windows, I had to reboot every few days. I am an end user. I like that I don't have to reboot.
arthursucks 1 year ago
@arthursucks The normal average job blogs doesn't have their computer running for weeks, normal end users could care less about that. I have no problems running windows linux on the other hand.... and yeah i'm not an average computer user and if I have trouble with linux what hope is there for the average user? This is one of the reasons why it only gets adapted by computer geeks,the sooner the linux community get this thru their head the better.
codebean 1 year ago
@codebean:
It seems like your definition of average end user is very specific. What exactly defines an end user? I know uses who don't know what OS they're running.
arthursucks 1 year ago
Arch Linux has an /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist that stores a long list of mirrors. If one fails, it chooses another without a hitch. Where's the issue?
itsbrad212 1 year ago
@itsbrad212 The only thing with that speaking as an arch user myself is that you have to wait for the time out period which can probably configured in one of the files but it once again it means editing thru the command line or waiting for the default time out which can make installing/updating really slow painful exercise.
codebean 1 year ago
@codebean I see what you're saying, but that would be really easy to circumvent. I'm actually an Arch developer, so maybe I can bring that up (if it hasn't already been implemented). Remember though, there's a timeout time for a reason. ;-)
itsbrad212 1 year ago
The repos are more secure then you running out and downloading off some site, or bittorrent and installing something that have spyware,virus, trojan etc.. It is more convenient and one gets all their updates when available for all thir installed software, can you do that with windows hell no.
nectarineblue 1 year ago
@nectarineblue Umm, What about filehippo or sourcefourge? (yes, there are windows apps there too) I'm sure those are malicious sites.
If you install a virus, it's your fuckin' fault for being an idiot, not Microsoft's.
Bittorrent? You're not suppose to torrent paid software anyway and if you get a virus from there, that's your fault.
The only reason why Linux doesn't get viruses is because windows users are easily tricked and there's more windows users to attack than Linux users.
commodore256 1 year ago
@nectarineblue Convenient? How convenient is it when you get a bad mirror? Oh yeah i've had that happen in linux before. What do you do then? Well you have to edit your sources list through the command line, what normal person is going to want to do that? NO ONE!!!! As for being secure no sorry, people can use dns service attacks & because you're running as root they will have control of your computer.
codebean 1 year ago
i would like to see you get millions of people working together to produce an operating system.. as for bugs in windows its a joke.. if i find something and tell the public m$ will cry that i shouldn't do that , that it makes it prone for attackers, whall in fact it makes the ignorant blind to the truth that they are faulty. linux community fixes those bugs right away. linux media center will run for years compared to windows media center running 24/7 as a pvr that will need rebooted daily.
nectarineblue 1 year ago
@nectarineblue Linux does not fix bugs right away stop bullshiting, i know this personally there was a bug in the kernal that stopped my internet connection from working it didn't get fix RIGHT AWAY!!! In fact it took quite awhile, which meant I couldn't use the latest versions of linux in fact there wasn't many versions of linux i could use, that's how BAD linux is when it comes to bugginess.
codebean 1 year ago
@nectarineblue I haven't rebooted my 7 install in 2 weeks :) and it's a heavily used laptop.
JamesManes 1 year ago
@CryptedTales Yes, I know it started from Darkone's 'challenge'... and I was referring to the whole discussion and not just this video. I did leave a comment on Darkone's video but he probably deleted it since it was more suited to his derogatory tone.
Anyway, all I hear is Linux sucks because it is not Windows. If you want something that is like Windows, then you're not going to get any better than Windows. Linux is not Windows. Accept it or move on. Don't start provoking flame wars.
librano 1 year ago
@librano My intention wasn't to start a flame war, but merely to try & get hax0rpr0n to understand that I think he was missing the point of what Darkone was trying to get across. The point is that for linux to become more prevalent it needs to offer something of value to the end user that windows doesn't & atm I don't really there is anything more it offers to the user, however thats just my opinion. Its not good enough to say linux isn't windows & just move along that wont help linux get better
codebean 1 year ago
@codebean The only reason I would want Linux to become more prevalent is for better hardware and closed source application support. Apart from that, market share is really irrelevant. However, I already deal with this by buying well supported hardware and using FOSS. And it works perfectly for what I (and most people) need.
Yes, it is important to look at what other OSs are doing. MS and Apple do that too. But making Linux like Windows will make it worse, not better. And many will agree.
librano 1 year ago
@librano Not necessarily there is already a number of things in linux that are windows like & no linux user that i know complains & says it's shit or they don't like it. You draw inspiration from the good things that other platforms are doing to get better. Look at windows 7 mobile it drew inspiration from ios but has it's own uniqueness to it, this is what ms did to make it better, linux needs to do the same.
codebean 1 year ago
@librano The point isn't because it's not windows. It's because shit works with windows without you fucking with it. You push a button and it works.
Do you wanna know something else that's not Windows that end users like if they got it for free? A Mac because you don't have to hit "Ctrl+Alt+F2" to "save your box".
A Mac is not Windows, but it would overtake windows if there were Mac Clones because it's easy to use and shit works.
The point was what advantage does linux have as a end user tool
freetard1337 1 year ago
@freetard1337 'shit' works for me in Linux without 'fucking' with. I really don't care if average Joe can't wrap his head around Linux... or whether he uses it. Does anyone complain that not everybody has got the chops to drive in Formula 1?
That said, the Linux desktop has reached a stage where a user that is oblivious to the OS can use it without the need to do any hacking or crap like that. Of course, I would always recommend such users have adequate support available like any OS.
librano 1 year ago
@librano "Does anyone complain that not everybody has got the chops to drive in Formula 1?"
This isn't a fuckin' car. I don't know where you're going with this analogy. You're implying Linux is faster, but harder to use. Even so, the point of the challenge is to see what linux has to offer as a main-stream desktop that windows doesn't except for freedom, free beer and free from viruses
It's not about which is better, it's about will people buy it if it was closed, costs money and had viruses
freetard1337 1 year ago
@freetard1337 "It's not about which is better, it's about will people buy it if it was closed, costs money and had viruses"
Oh sorry, I thought we were trying to make sense. I'll exit now.
librano 1 year ago
@librano Excuse me, I meant to say "It's not about which has a better core" Excuse me, but there's there's a character limit and I used all of my characters.
It doesn't mater if it's GPL, it doesn't matter if it doesn't cost money because linux users wouldn't use gimp if it was $700 and closed source, but they would all use photoshop if the license was changed to GPL, it doesn't matter if it's "virus free" because it's not the same idiot that runs viruses as administrator will run it as root.
freetard1337 1 year ago
@freetard1337 :D I was being sarcastic.
1. There are many distros that are paid distro: RedHat, SLED, Xandros, Mandriva.
2. Some distros offer paid support: Ubuntu, Mint.
Do they have clients? Yes.
3. Devs need to eat. Paid apps mean more dev time going into these apps which means these apps would probably be much better. As it is most critical FOSS is written by paid devs. And FOSS as it is is sufficient for most normal users.
librano 1 year ago
@librano #1 + #2 well, the free as in price argument is useless if you pay for it.
#3. Devs are more likely to get money to sell to more people and more people use windows. So, it would be logical to go to a big platform like windows or iOS.
freetard1337 1 year ago
@freetard1337 You asked if people would pay for FOSS if it wasn't FOSS. I'm saying they are willing to pay for FOSS even if/because it is FOSS. Many FOSS projects (including the ones you mention) are cross platform.
You keep conjuring these far out scenarios. Is there a point you are trying to make?
librano 1 year ago
@librano Linux doesn't have the standard pro apps.
People that work at a office can't use open office because it sucks, but they can still use a Mac because Microsoft makes office for mac. (I thought they were enemies)
People buy the hip and cool iPhone, but it requires iTunes to activate and apple doesn't make iTunes for linux and that's a deal breaker.
Photo pros use photoshop and it's worth $700 to them and those people wouldn't pay $100 for gimp if it was paid and there's no CS for Linux.
freetard1337 1 year ago
@freetard1337 That's why I said in the beginning use what works for you.
Speaking of standards, all ISO standards are supported in Linux. If you choose to lock yourself in with proprietary apps & formats and closed hardware then that is your choice and I couldn't care less.
I would really like to meet this user who cannot use a package manager but is a Photoshop pro. Care to introduce him to me?
For Office, CS, iTunes, ask the people who make them for Linux versions if you want.
librano 1 year ago
@librano Like it or not, people already locked themselves in, they just want to push a button and shit works and those companies are the standard, it may be closed, but it's the fuckin' standard and they won't develop for Linux. That's the real world, live with it!
You sound exactly like I did in 2009.
freetard1337 1 year ago
@freetard1337 I am... and it's pretty sweet. I hope you're at least feeling 'hip and cool'. Cheers.
librano 1 year ago
@librano "standards?" What are these standards you speak of. You use Linux. Linux has no fucking standards. HEY LETS USE KDE, NO GNOME, NO FLUXBOX. DOES THAT USE GTK OR QT? Oh wait how about a standard package manager? RPM, DEB, ARCH, Etc. Where are your standards? Standard distro? nope, standard email client? nope. Standard anything? ..... anything?
JamesManes 1 year ago
@freetard1337 @librano Here is the best example of linux "standards." Pretty sweet huh? imgur(DOT)com/wQISR.png ROFL what a fucking riot.
JamesManes 1 year ago
@JamesManes I specifically mentioned ISO standards.
As for the projects you list, that is called freedom and choice. If you cannot handle it, use a distro that makes these decisions for you. If you are completely averse to freedom and choice then don't use Linux. That's fine too.
Yes, audio is a bit crazy especially for devs. No one claimed Linux is flawless. But most users use what comes with their distro, others pick and choose. I use Phonon and ALSA, occasionally JACK.
librano 1 year ago
@librano
Windows doesn't meet ISO standards? Office saves in .odt if you want.
Freedom is nice, but not when it hinders productivity, functionality, coordination, and ease of use.
JamesManes 1 year ago
@JamesManes Office is not part of Windows... but I get what you mean. And doesn't .odt support have to be installed as a plugin? I'm not sure.
I don't see how any of those things are hindered by having competing projects. No one complains that there are too many web browsers for Windows... and that we should only have one.
librano 1 year ago
@librano Office supports .odt out of the box, and WordPad (which comes with windows) also can save as .odt.
Also, it is ok to have many windows browsers, as they all run on a centralized platform, Windows. However, it is total ass when you have multiple package managers. When there are multiple package managers shit hits the fan as it is a complex mess to convert packages. If you switch your package manager (lets say opensuse to DEB) your entire repo is fucked and you lose update support.
JamesManes 1 year ago
@JamesManes There is no situation where you have to switch package managers... let alone have that as a method of resolving a problem. On the contrary, that is strongly discouraged if at all allowed. Anyone trying it is guaranteed to break his system.
Always install from repos. With the size of repos in major distros plus 3rd party repos, that should cover most needs. If you step outside this, the onus is on you to know what you are doing.
The Linux kernel is the 'centralized platform'.
librano 1 year ago
@librano The linux kernel does not have a standard way (other than compiling which end users will not do) to install applications. Windows has .exe or .msi (both integrated into the system and non-removable). Linux has.... compiling. Or .bin, which is also hard as you must chmod it every time. So now you rely upon .rpm, .dep etc. Well the sad part is not every software dev makes a version for both. They usually do .deb and source or .rpm or source. It's really annoying and messy.
JamesManes 1 year ago
@JamesManes Which is why the average user installs using the package manager. Packaging is usually handled by the distro.
librano 1 year ago
@librano What if an end users wants THAT program, but THAT program only comes with source or RPM? They are running debian. Now what? They are fucked.
JamesManes 1 year ago
@JamesManes Beginners should use a distro like Ubuntu or Mint. Every Linux app I have used has an Ubuntu package. If they use a niche distro, they are most probably not beginners and are able to handle the situ.
In Linux, if something doesn't work you are not 'fucked'. The user can seek help either getting someone to package the said app, help them learn how to install/package it themselves, etc. I maintain a few packages myself. It is not hard for anyone of reasonable intelligence.
librano 1 year ago
@librano Why worry about what distro to get. Why worry about finding help on compiling a package. Why not just use windows and be done with it. End uesrs don't want to learn how to make their computer work, they want to sit down and use it. Windows provides that environment, Linux does not.
JamesManes 1 year ago
@JamesManes "uesrs don't want to learn how to make their computer work, they want to sit down and use it"
Ironic since that is exactly why I use Linux. No need to buy an OS, activate it, then go through the hassle of securing it... by buying even more software which slows it down..., And then having to now search for apps to actually do stuff... which may cost more money. Just download and throw on a distro like Mint and have everything working out of the box.
librano 1 year ago
@librano "No need to buy an OS, activate it, then go through the hassle of securing it" Considering that most ppl buy windows with their pc, there isn't much need for the first part, & that stuff is still far easier than having to compile from source.
"by buying even more software which slows it down.." Really like what???
"., And then having to now search for apps to actually do stuff" Really like what???
As for using ubuntu i'd never recommend that buggy pos for a first time user.
codebean 1 year ago
@codebean Yet again you compare a best case scenario in Windows vs a worst case scenario in Linux. I can think of only Gentoo and LFS where compiling is the norm. So your point is moot. Over here most desktops are sold without OS and my laptop came with Linux preinstalled.
-Antivirus, antispyware, antiwhatever.
-An office suite, a decent photo manager, Flash, image editor. What apps does Windows come with anyway?
I prefer Mint over Ubuntu for newbies but it's not like Windows is bug free.
librano 1 year ago
Why is it that Windows and OS X are picked up and used by end users so well but Linux is not? Linux is free and people know about it. If it is free and just as good as windows or os x why is it not the most popular?
JamesManes 1 year ago
@JamesManes No, most people do not know about Linux. The few that do usually only know FUD similar to your points of view... and hence they do not try it. Of course, like anything new, there is a learning curve involved and many people could not be bothered to learn something new when they are used to Windows.
librano 1 year ago
@librano Never said most people knew about linux
JamesManes 1 year ago
@librano "Over here most desktops are sold without OS and my laptop came with Linux preinstalled." Thats not the norm i'm comparing a best case scenario with windows coz it's the norm. Granted compiling from source is not the norm, it's the worst case, but for windows there is no worse case scenario, there's only one way & it's easy same with osx, that's what needs to happen linux. And yes i've had to compile from source before on systems other than gentoo/LFS.
codebean 1 year ago
@codebean I could go with you to the mall and show you that the majority of desktop machines on display running Linux... all sold as without OS. More laptops come with Windows but a decent number come with Linux. Broader horizons may help...
What did you compile and on which distro?
librano 1 year ago
@librano I'm sure you could go to that store that you've searched long & hard to find, which sold linux pcs, but if you want the real pepsi challenge, how about googling computers & see how many stores sell linux? Not only that but even with preconfigured linux pcs they still don't work, there's vid of someone buying an ubuntu pc that didn't work with her usb modem, it did with her old windows pc.
codebean 1 year ago
@codebean LOL The mall is hardly a long and hard search.
The good old bastion of hardware support... My brother is a CS student (pro user) who owns a Dell Inspiron laptop which came with XP. Recently, he upgraded to Win7 in which the touchpad support is atrocious. Dell only provides Vista drivers which do not work in 7 and MS does not fully support it. He has had to buy a USB mouse to get full functionality back. In the words of James, "He is fucked."
Meanwhile its works perfectly in Ubuntu.
librano 1 year ago
Well then take my pepsi challenge.
In other words he was trying to use an os that was meant to run on his computer, and what his computer wasn't designed to run on in the first place. I find it hard to believe that the vista drivers dont work with 7 as the driver model is meant to be compatible across those two os. Hell i've even been able to get xp drivers to work with win7. Try doing the same with linux when they break compatibility unless you want to start hacking source code you're fucked.
codebean 1 year ago
@codebean bit. ly/fMki51 <-- 4 out of the first 5 are with Linux.
bit. ly/QGqO1 <-- the touchpad issue.
So the conclusion is that you should use an OS on and with hardware with which it is compatible. Simply by checking for compatibility before purchasing, now all my hardware (incl. peripherals) is supported natively in Linux with open drivers.
Without 3rd party support Windows' hardware support isn't anything to write home about.
Got any examples for having to hack source?
librano 1 year ago
@codebean As for my own USB 3G modem, setup in Ubuntu is simply a matter of choosing my country and ISP from a list in the network manager after which my mobile broadband, wired and wireless connections all appear in a neat list together.
In Windows, it requires installing and configuring 3rd party software. Clearly a step behind in user experience.
librano 1 year ago
@librano Doesn't matter what i'm talking about is when you don't have the drivers, with windows installing the drivers is easy, in linux it requires compiling which like i said NO USER SHOULD HAVE TO DO!!!! If the oss community ever want linux to become popular that will have to change.
codebean 1 year ago
@codebean Adding new drivers not included in the kernel can be done using modprobe. Got any examples were compiling is a *necessity*?
librano 1 year ago
@librano Drivers and Linux? Ok how about this issue.
I have an HP Envy 15 with an ATI 5830 mobility. The official ATI drivers are shit, and the opensource ATI drivers are again, shit. I get half the framerates that I do in windows. ATIs fault, but still not MY problem. I have a multitouch trackpad. The trackpad is part of the button. Linux cannot fully use the functionality of this trackpad. No 2 finger touch, no 2 finger scroll, zoom, pinch. In fact, I'll upload you a video.
JamesManes 1 year ago
@JamesManes Indeed, it is ATI's fault that their Linux drivers suck. Did HP provide a driver for your touchpad? If I had your laptop I'd probably run Win7 on it... coz that is what works. Not that I'd give money for something with poor Linux support... I stick to buying well supported hardware and that works well for me. It's not the greatest situation to be in, but getting use Linux is worth it.
I'm subbed to you. Waiting for the vid.
librano 1 year ago
@librano Posted
JamesManes 1 year ago
@librano Some drivers on all linux distros, with varying sucess, something NO USER SHOULD HAVE TO DO!!!! I pretty sure i've had to compile gnomad before on opensuse, it wouldn't surprise me as opensuses repos are quite small, something that is a major disadvantage if you're using that distro as the likelyhood of having to compile from source greatly increases.
codebean 1 year ago
@codebean Drivers in Linux are built into the kernel. Only closed drivers e.g. NVidia and ATI require specially compiled kernel images and most popular distros already have these packages in the repos. Now, I haven't used closed drivers in ages so I may be out of touch... something specific would help.
AFAIK, Rhythmbox, Banshee and Amarok all support the Nomad using common libraries and Gnomad is a dead project. The need to compile Gnomad simply does not exist... even in OpenSuse.
librano 1 year ago
@librano Nope my ethernet drivers weren't in some distros a few years back. Same goes with web camera etc... had to compile them by source.
Gnomad maybe dead now, wasn't a few years ago. Oh BTW how do u think haxor got his sound working? I can bet it wasn't without a lot of hacking, LOL typical linux.
codebean 1 year ago
@codebean A few years ago in Linux is an eternity. I have never encountered an ethernet card that didn't work in Linux. I don't know what webcams you are buying but all webcam that use follow standards are supported. And they are the majority.
haxor was probably doing some audio work... so he probably had to install and configure JACK... which is meant for pro audio work... *not for normal users*... (before you have your 'AHA!' moment).
librano 1 year ago
@librano As for image editors,flash,office,u have 2 do the same with some linux distros like ubuntu,pclinux & fedora (office),not only do u have to do that but with ubuntu & fedora you have to install the codecs by hand, of course you can use mint instead for that, but that's illegal depending on what country you live in.
You don't need to buy av & it can work well without slowing down your system, in fact you already know how well it works i've already pointed this out. So linux ain't easier.
codebean 1 year ago
@codebean I was comparing to Mint. Even then, all those and more are readily available via the package manager.
Gladly, most of the world has evolved beyond those silly laws.
If you want full protection, you have to pay... why else would those antiviruses have paid versions? Unless the antivirus is doing nothing, it is consuming CPU cycles and RAM.
librano 1 year ago
@librano Uhm only an idiot would say you have to pay for full protection.
JamesManes 1 year ago
@JamesManes So you say the creators of all those antivirus progs with free versions are idiots...
Thanks for keeping it civilized and mature. /s
librano 1 year ago
@librano Free versions have ads which give them revenue anyway. MSE however does not spam ads and it is decent. No matter what, you need common sense to stay secure with ANY OS. Windows more than others as it is attacked more. For example I use MSE and it has never detected anything yet because I simply do not do stupid stuff like download silly_funtime_and_tacos.exe. End users will though because they are not smart enough to see it is a scam.
JamesManes 1 year ago
@librano "all those and more are readily available via the package manager."Which is the equivalent of downloadin them on windows something you were complaining about.
Um no those silly laws still exist,hence why there r still linux distros who dont ship them,else y have fluendo?
Um no there is windows security essentials which is very light and does a decent job.The free av i use is the same, it even stopped that poc vunerability u pointed out.The proof is in the pudding wouldn't you say?
codebean 1 year ago
@codebean There is an advantage in searching in a package manager for an app as opposed to searching on Google. Mint's package manager even integrates user ratings and reviews. The user experience is way better. Even Apple knows this, hence their new OS X app store. MS will follow soon.
Use of open source decoders is legal in most of the world. Though, props to Fluendo.
If only decent security is good enough for you... that's all well and good.
librano 1 year ago
@librano If you are implying popular distros such as ubuntu are secure then just simply LOL. Do you browse packetstorm? Ubuntu has security flaws everywhere you look. And Mint has had their server running slackware compromised, twice. Jee, secure OS you are running there guys.
JamesManes 1 year ago
@JamesManes I've been through the security discussion at length with you already. And I think I proved my point there.
Packetstorm... dunno if it is the one you gave earlier but the overwhelming majority was vulnerability to DDoS attacks... Nothing spectacular. Care to find something more juicy?
librano 1 year ago
@librano Ubuntu /tmp is executable by default for one.
How about this funny stuff: packetstormsecurity (DOT) org/news/view/12624/Ubuntu-Servers-Hacked (DOT) html
JamesManes 1 year ago
@JamesManes No file is executable until made executable. And then it is not executed until a user does so. Even if noexec option is used, an interpreter could run a script. The better approach is to prevent unauthorized access. Keep in mind these are user desktops, not CIA servers. Care to elaborate on your argument?
Funny story indeed. Though that is 3yrs old and a clear example of PEBKAC. It doesn't say much about the system. Nice find... must have been a deep search in the archives...
librano 1 year ago
@librano Meh, ratings mean nothing last night there was a review for two movies one had a higher rating than the other, but one with the higher rating was shit. The only way to really find out if the app is what you want is to download it & give it a try.
codebean 1 year ago
@codebean Well I guess we'll just have to see what MS thinks when they make their own 'package manager'.
librano 1 year ago
@JamesManes BTW, which package is it that you are talking about... or is it a mythical scenario?
librano 1 year ago
4. You talk about Linux being too hard for clueless users but Windows being great if the user knows how and what to do. Is that a fair comparison? If I were going to give Linux to a clueless user, I would be their sysadmin and lock them out of root. I would do the same in Windows, though UAC isn't as secure. If the user is tech savvy, Linux is a techie's dream OS.
librano 1 year ago
@freetard1337 Since we're asking crazy questions, answer this question:
If Windows did not have all the 3rd party apps, drivers, games, etc... let's say only Windows and other MS products... still closed and paid for. Which OS would you use? Windows+MS apps or Ubuntu and the apps in its repos free and open source?
librano 1 year ago
@librano OK, Good Drivers, apps and games is a deal breaker it doesn't matter if they cost money or closed source, if I can't install want I want on my computer or use the full power of my video card that ATI/Nvidia makes the card those are deal breakers.
GPL/Free shit isn't a deal breaker and the virus thing is based on user stupidity the same administrator that clicks yes on a UAC Prompt will put in their password on Gksudo on a virus installer.
So Linux has no deal breakers for most people.
freetard1337 1 year ago
@freetard1337 "same administrator that clicks yes on a UAC Prompt will put in their password on Gksudo on a virus installer"
I disagree, since the Linux user will be installing from official, tested and trusted repositories... whereas the Windows user could be installing Bonzi Buddy for all we know.
librano 1 year ago
@librano lolno, if the same idiot windows user was tricked by an email or a website to install trojan, the same person that would click "Yes" on a UAC Prompt will give it root.
freetard1337 1 year ago
@freetard1337 There is a big menu entry labeled "Software Center". You say this mythical user will refuse to deal with the CLI at all, but will somehow be tricked into installing a trojan via email? Even if he was sent a package, he will be warned before installing. Two minutes' explanation that apps should only be installed from the Software Center should solve that.
If all of that is not enough, I am really curious how this idiot has survived this long IRL.
librano 1 year ago
@librano
Yeah and they're also warned of the "antivirus" (trojan) program hasn't been verified in windows and they still install it anyway.
freetard1337 1 year ago
@freetard1337 "one more thing"... take Mac OS X out of its walled garden and you will watch it fall to its knees.
librano 1 year ago
@freetard1337 OSX has a good amount of underlying code taken from FreeBSD. Apple does a great job hiding the BSD internals from the end user, why do you assume a Linux distribution cannot do the same?
itsbrad212 1 year ago
@itsbrad212 OSX is BSD with extra proprietary shit to make things easier on the end user.
Do you think Mac users know they're using a proprietary fork of BSD? Do you think they care? No. They just care that they can use it.
I'm not saying "Linux Can't do the same", I'm saying "Linux hasn't done that yet and Apple has been doing it for 10 years".
Most people don't care what they're running, they just care if it's easy to use and if all of their shit works.
freetard1337 1 year ago
@freetard1337 Over at Apple, they receive a nice fat salary for the work they do. In the Linux world, it's virtually all volunteer work. If YOU don't feel that the Linux desktop experience is up to par, then YOU should do something about it. ;-) All of us sitting around and moping over how difficult Linux is to use is utter bullshit. And quite frankly, I don't necessarily want Linux to go mainstream, as corporations/the general public always find a way to screw with great software.
itsbrad212 1 year ago
@itsbrad212 if by "screw with great software" you mean "standardize and perfect" then ok. Money = professional developers = better apps.
JamesManes 1 year ago
@JamesManes You have an argument there with standardization there, although I would rebut and say that that is mainly due to the market share that a company has. And quite frankly, I don't recall hearing that corporations had the ability to standardize their own software, rather the consumer has that power (but that's not really a counter-argument, more of me just pointing something out). If nobody purchased Microsoft products, then Windows would not be a standard desktop operating system.
itsbrad212 1 year ago
@JamesManes Now, on the topic of "perfect" and "better" applications. That is completely subjective, and not even a semi-strong argument. You may feel that Adobe After Effects is perfected software, while others may believe otherwise. You're entitled to your opinion, which I will respect, and I'm entitled to my own. Professional development does not require money. If that was true, then my OpenBSD server would be much less secure than, say, a Windows Server 2008 box, et cetera.
itsbrad212 1 year ago
@JamesManes *That's generally speaking by the way. User incompetence is always a large factor in security. ;-)
itsbrad212 1 year ago
As for dev apps, I don't know any of the logic, syntax and I can't memorize API calls, but I believe the right way to do coding is to learn the language and just use a text editor and a CLI compiler/interpretor.
Example: Web design classes shouldn't teach Dreamweaver, they should teach HTML,JS,CSS,AJAX, etc with just an editor with syntax highlighting in case you fuck up.
My logic is if you're a Dev, you shouldn't use push button solutions because you'll be dependent on the button maker.
commodore256 1 year ago
@commodore256 Agreed.
librano 1 year ago
totally agree with you dude, i mean i haven't used linux in a while, but i know how it works and let me tell you, as PC repair tech the last thing i want to be doing is getting anymore dirty with software than i already do with hardware.
everything from video playback, sound windows just does it better, i can't encode on linux with any new x264 builds, shit just does NOT work
and "more stable" i've got W7 x64 running for weeks without restarting, been like that for 8 months since installation
VincentX202 1 year ago
@VincentX202 About sound being better on windows... Well, if I was an audio Pro, Ideally, I would use Linux for low latency recording with a real-time kernel and mess with the nice settings of jack and the recording program and then reboot into Windows or Hackintosh because the only way to get a Soundblaster Live 24-Bit (The best sound card) to work in Leopard (Snow Leopard sucks) is to do a Hackintosh.
I think Linux would be better for recording, but editing would be better on Windows/OSX.
commodore256 1 year ago
Hi. I am not even going to go into your false statements in this video...
I don't get the point of this discussion. A computer OS is a tool, not a club or a religion. If Windows works for you, use it; if Linux doesn't, then don't. There is absolutely no sense in disrupting another community to tickle your own ego. I, for one, have been using Linux as my main desktop OS (and almost exclusively) for more than 6 years. Linux isn't flawless, but it is the best IMO.
Use what works for you. EOF.
librano 1 year ago