Debunkers are "PAID" government professional LIARS... supposedly professional men and women who at one time received funding by the government or are still funded at their University or Corporation ie: Bell labs. These LIARS prey on and hope the general population will heed what they say because there "Psychologists" "Doctors" "Lawyers" and alike.. They all know that Aliens are here and have been for millions of years. The truth is out there if only you research it.
The truth will stand up to the most extraordinary skepticism . I feel that most UFoligists draw the line between skeptics and debunkers at who is just skeptical and who proved them wrong. The existence of other life in the universe is almost certain . However we need to be realistic if a race really found a way around the universal speed limit of light and traversed millions of light years would they really be interested in sticking a probe up a rednecks ass? Or fucking us apes? I Hope not.
This is bizarre. There is no such thing as a "debunker" according to this definition given by kevin. I am a skeptic since I am looking for the truth and yet so many people have told me I'm a debunker because i refuse to see the "truth?" Jesus. There is NO scientific proof of the existence of ET craft in our skys and no amount of "hey look at all the evidence" changes that. If it were proved beyond a doubt the entire scientific community would get behind it. it hasn't. Go figure.
Airline pilots, police officers and military pilots and radar specialist have been reporting UFOs and not aliens. They want UFO's investigated. You should too because this involves air safety and national security. You entrust these people with your life and yet your government is denying your consideration by not having open investigations and so that's what's bizarre and no matter if it's alien craft or not. Skeptics research objectively and honestly but that's not the debunkers style at all.
Anyone has to consider the possibility that your strongest UFO evidence can be thoroughly confiscated if you find it and try to get it to your local news agency because they will want to fact check that material with higher authorities before running the story. Our U.S. government might have some big concerns about letting your alien evidence go out into the world because of all the major impact it would have on not just us but them, politically and other ways.
"It appears to be a metallic object......tremendous in size....directly ahead and slightly above .... I am trying to close for a better look."
-Captain Thomas Mantell, USAF--Reporting to the tower at Goodman airforce base on a UFO they had picked up on radar and requested him to investigate. They were his last known words. Mantell's plane was later found strewn across a stretch of ground just southwest of Franklyn, Kentucky.
Ettrick8- I'm more than happy to post even more quotes for you and your job here is to trigger them so stay hard at work:
"We lost between 16-18 ICBMs (nuclear tipped Inter Continental Ballistic Missiles) at the same time UFOs were in the area. (A high ranking Air Force officer) said, Stop the investigation; do no more on this and do not write a final report."
~ Captain Robert Salas US Air Force
Discussing UFO's being reported as missiles lost power to launch in a CNN, LKL interview *2008
"Instead of using 50 year old quotes how about answering the questions I left you with? "
What's that? you want more 50 year old quotes. OK. I''ll see what I can do. This is the oldest one I have.
"Well informed people know it is impossible to transmit the voice over wires and that were it possible to do so, the thing would be of no practical value."
- Editorial in the Boston Post (1865)
The future will quote the skeptics-debunkers of today. Just as we are doing of the past.
Instead of using old quotes why don't you put you own thoughts or arguments into words. Everyone uses the occasional quote to justify their stance but when your whole argument is just quotes then you are saying that you have nothing worth saying!
Tally ho guv'na! The Doctor's prognosis is his patient is feeling a little under the weather today.
His remedy is a dose of quote to be taken visually twice, then plenty of rest.
"We were naturally anxious to get hold of one of the [UFOs]. We told pilots to do practically anything in reason, even if they had to grab one by the tail."
"Instead of using quotes that are decades old, do you have any orginal thoughts? '
Yup. But I love posting quotes of these very credible witnesses, mainly 'cause the debunkers hate them so much! And when people see them, it makes them realize if Astronauts, high ranking military officials, pilots experience these events, there has to be something to it.
The last time I heard the drivel that your guys spout to each other was from 'Plan 9 from Outer Space'
After all your evidence (mostly pasted from a couple of web sites) that you put forward as your own ideas, you have still failed to produce anything that would convince any intelligent independent thinker but as Thomas Sowell said
"It is futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance."
"After all your evidence (mostly pasted from a couple of web sites) that you put forward as your own ideas" << is just one example sentence of a compound liar at work. Ettrick8 - Tell the truth. I have never offered quotes as evidence of ET or as my own ideas but I am content to let people more qualified than you to speak for themselves in the quotes I've pasted which have been in context and can be found from multiple valid sources online or off. You're a failure at your job of disinformation.
"In my mind, there is no question that they're out there. My Career is well established. My texts books are required reading in all the major capitals on planet earth. If you want to become a physicist to learn about the unified field theory-you read my books. Therefore, I'm in a position to say: Yes- Most likely they're out there, perhaps even visited, perhaps on our moon." - ABC News Quote
~ Professor Michio Kaku, Author of Theoretical Physics UNY
"I was there at [Project] Bluebook and I know the job they had. They were told not to excite the public, not to rock the boat... Whenever a case happened that they coud explain--which was quite a few--they made a point of that, and let that out to the media. . .Cases that were very difficult to explain, they would jump handsprings to keep the media away from them. They had a job to do, rightfully or wrongfully, to keep the public from getting excited."
"And has Dr Hynek proved unusual nature of UFOS and wasn't he the guy that promoted the swamp gas explanation "
He sure did! And IF you had investigated it, you would have found out he started out a skeptic. But after interviewing so many credible witnesses, he died a believer in the UFO phenomena. All this stuff can be found out "IF" someone wants to. It's there, if one has an open mind, eyes, logic, and common sense that is. I won't do your research for you.
"Dr Hynek proved unusual nature of UFOS and wasn't he the guy that promoted the swamp gas explanation" Exactly! At first he tried to do what the military wanted him to do, which he came to realize was was just propaganda and then came clean. He's not the only guy that came clean about Project Bluebook either. It's a well know history fact now that Bluebook was an attempt to sweep all the more serious UFO reports under the rug with dumb explanations like swamp gas.
if UFO reports merit scientific inquiry, one must also admit that in no other field of inquiry the scientist is so handicapped by an odd & discouraging assemblage of "data." More than 90% of these reports are found to be hoaxes or poor accounts of well-known events. Under those circumstances an unexplained residue of perhaps 10% is no basis to believe in miracles. Its more reasonable to assume that this residue is so distorted or incomplete as to defy all analysis.
"Taking into account the facts that we have gathered from the observers and from the location of their observations, we concluded that there generally can be said to be a material phenomenon behind the observations. In 60% of the cases reported here (references cited), the description of this phenomenon is apparently one of a flying machine whose origin, modes of lifting and/or propulsion are totally outside our knowledge."
~ French Space Agency, GEPAN Report , 1978 Vol 1, chapter 4
Doesn't your reference web site have more up todate quotes than those from the 50s, 60s and 70s. It a typical trick of pseudoscience to used very old material to support their case and ignore the latest information
So In other words, not only do you attempt to ignore the importance of history but also lie and ignore any of the other UFO cases, documents and quotes from more recent times that are also right here in this very thread. Again, you're caught in your own web of lies.
Accusing someone of lying with no evidence not only makes your self look foolish but destroys your credibility
I have looked at every case you have put forward and propsed alternative and more prosaic explanations, I have agreed that science should look at these anomalous phenomenon to find the explanation, so what problem do you have with me. I have only challenged you and required you to prove you case but after a few parries you resort to false accusations.
"I have agreed that science should look at these anomalous phenomenon to find the explanation"
If what you mean here is that UFOs really do need to be investigated properly by scientist who are not being told what to say for propaganda purposes by some government agency, then you've finally said at least one thing here I can agree with. Over-all, I have no problem with you because you've helped trigger extra info.
Key up the following, research & form a valid theory 1947 Twining Memo 1949 FBI Memo, UFOs Top Secret 1950 Hanford AEC document 1952 CIA (Chadwell) Memo 1953 Oak Ridge Memo 1954 Maxwell AFB Emergency Memo 1955 Pepperell AFB Radar-Visual UFO tracking 1966 Minot AFB UFO Landing Memo 1967 Malmstron AFB Memo 1969 Bellender Memo 1975 NORAD and USAF UFO documents 1976 DIA Memo (Iranian Jet fighter incident) 1978 State Dept. Memo on Bolivian UFO crash 1981 Halt Memo 1990 DIA documents on Belgian UFO
indeed science is about proof. However when someone refuses to see the proof that is right in front of them, because he or she (in this case you) is dead set on not believing (or at least taking an unbiased look at said proof) the science factor seases to exist.. in such a case it stops beeing science and becomes onrdinary debunkiorism :)
@Joeyjumpoff1 lol there is enough proof out there to be found and studied, yet too those who wish to go through life with blindfolds on,it will always be a clearcut case of proof though denial... yet!!! a common mistake amongst debunkers is the believe that if one shouts (and caps are concidered shouting FYI) and repeats the lie loud and often enough it will magicaly turn in to a truth...
@Joeyjumpoff1 if you truely think that is what i said, i strongly suggest you read it again.. i didn't say you dont assume something.. i merely stated that if you know where to look and make an effort, there is plenty proof worth studying :)) this does not necisarily mean you can proof existence of 'alien UFO's' beyond reason of a doubt, however it does mean there is evidence which needs (and deserves examening..
@kor314 Most cases have be explained & have been down to earth. The conspiracy theories just are from the movies, people want to believe because its just a fantasyof theres
#1The 1997 Pheonix AZ UFO sighting was witnessed by an estimated 10,000 including the governor of the state. He is a retired air force pilot by the way. The air force keep changing it's stories. They first claimed they were dropping flares. The Gov said. Nope, flares don't fly in formation fixed onto to something the shape of a giant triangle est. hundreds of feet in length. Then they tried to say it was Wart Hog jets. He said Nope, wart hog jets make a loud sound and this thing was silent.
"An astronomer saw a formation of ejet flying at high altitude but nobody wanted to know about his evidence"
So apparently you don't even want us to know his name or his credentials? Whys that?
And why does his lonely little account differ from 1000's of others including a state govenor who was also a trained military pilot and who all reported a large single solid shape? What time was his sighting anyway and did he watch the same object? Not likely. This case remains, to date, *un-solved*
#2 Later on, an odd night film was released that was from a different time from the time of the UFO sighting in an attempt to go back and re- apply the lie about flares but the good people of Peonix AZ. along with former governor Fife Symington, have soundly rejected the "flares" cover up excuse and to this day and a full on investigation has still been denied. Only shills, debunkers and cover up artist want flares or wart hog jets as a reason to fool and avoid investigations.
It was clear that at least a few reported incidents might have involved rare but significant phenomena such as electrical activity high above thunderstorms (e.g., sprites) or rare cases of radar ducting. On the other hand, the review panel was not convinced that any of the evidence involved currently unknown physical processes or pointed to the involvement of an extraterrestrial intelligence
Ettrick8 - Great...And now lets read the rest of what Dr. Peter Sturrock had say much to your dismay...
"The definitive resolution of the UFO enigma will not come about unless and until the problem is subjected to open and extensive scientific study by the normal procedures of established science."
~ Dr. Peter A. Sturrock, Professor of Space Science and Astrophysics and Deputy Director of the Center for Space Sciences and Astrophysics at Stanford University
I like how you put a quote up that supports my argument and negates yours keep it up, it shows that when you move out of your comfort zone you begin to struggle with thinking
Ettrick8- Again you have nothing to say anymore except for compound lies. For example- Youre the guy that came in here and started attacking peoples comments because *you* chould not attack the data. When we counter in defense of that, you cant take it and start your crying. The full story is here like a book for all to read and there's nothing you can do to stop anyone from reading it or the information we post. Enjoy.
The nice thing here is that this all goes double for you but I would prefer you hang around and continue helping us as you have already by triggering extra UFO information from us and providing your sort of contrast. ; )
Therefore, on the basis of this evaluation of the information, it is considered to be highly improbable that any of the reports of unidentified aerial objects examined in this study represent observations of technological developments outside the range of present-day scientific knowledge. (United States Air Technical Intelligence Center 94)
"As a consequence of my work on the voluminous air force files and, to a greater extent, of personal investigation of many puzzling cases and interviews with witnesses of good repute, I have long been aware that the subject of UFOs could not be dismissed as mere nonsense."
~ J. Allan Hynek- Lead scientific investigator for the USAs only official investigation into UFOs - Project Bluebook
"The evidence that there are objects which have been seen in our atmosphere, and even on terra firma, that cannot be accounted for either as man-made objects or as any physical force or effect known to our scientists, seems to me to be overwhelming... A very large number of sightings have been vouched for by persons whose credentials seem to me unimpeachable."
Lord Hill-Norton, Chief of Defense Staff, Ministry of Defense, U.K., 1973
"There are some definite flight type characteristics that are seen now that I would say represent genuine UFOs...ie: instant acceleration; instant stop; vertical acceleration -up into the air and down to the ground; reverses in direction; right angle turns -all in silence -multiple objects sometimes separating and then going back into each other.
British Detective Constable Gary Heseltine - Police UFO reporting organisation,PRUFOS.
"The evidence that there are objects which have been seen in our atmosphere, and even on terra firma, that cannot be accounted for either as man-made objects or as any physical force or effect known to our scientists, seems to me to be overwhelming... A very large number of sightings have been vouched for by persons whose credentials seem to me unimpeachable."
Lord Hill-Norton, Chief of Defense Staff, Ministry of Defense, U.K., 1973
This is working out fantastic. So many people reading this thread, are seeing all these great quotes from respected individuals, and are now realizing there has to be something to this. Whenever a troll wants to argue, we are presented with a super opportunity to open eyes, minds, and thoughts. And I bet, we have done just that. Keep up the good work!
I enjoy your very apt use of important historical UFO quotes and I agree totally that an argument addicted video troll or UFO debunker, can serve a very useful purpose for you, me, or any of us, as the unwitting catalyst that we can then use for spring-boarding even more information.
"More than 10,000 sightings have been reported, the majority of which cannot be accounted for by any scientific explanation... I am convinced that these objects do exist and that they are not manufactured by any nation on Earth." "I can therefore see no alternative to accepting the theory that they come from some extraterrestrial source."
"These are no lights in the sky. These are not mis-identifications of fantasy prone individuals. This is a cutting-edge technology being reported by reliable, trained observers, and it is something that goes beyond what we can do.
That to me suggests that if it is not ours, it belongs to someone else. If that technology is better than ours, then the extraterrestrial hypothesis seems to me the best explanation."
Nick Pope
Head of the British Ministry of Defence from 1991-1994.
"The official line from the Ministry of Defense is, 'Yes, this happened. No, we don't know what it is, but we say that it is of no defense significance.' How can it possibly be of no defense significance when your best jet is left for standing by a UFO? And, again, how can it be of no defense significance when your air defense region is routinely penetrated by structured craft?"
I just un-spammed your latest post too. Seems someone doesn't like,(or can't argue against), what we're saying. This just confirms we're having an effect on them! LOL
I've always looked at the Condign report as Project Blue Book number two. In other words, both are a joke. I've always thought their explanations were hilarious. Great comedy.
"While Condign has some errors, its still provides teh explanation of majority of the sightings and its finding were confirmed by Codign "
LOL! News flash!......People are you reading this? Condign confirms his own findings! Yippeee! So UFO's are Venus, and swamp gas after all. SImply amazing.....(can't stop laughing)
Oh people are you reading this the books written by Friedman, Randle, Schmitt, etc confirms they own findings!!!
You walked straight into that one with your eyes open dahur
The Condign report was issued to the Government (5 years before the FoI act) so either they set out to lie to the Government (and anticipated that this secret report may be released) or the report is an honest and accurate report.
You believe what you want (and you will) and I'll believe the truth
My own present opinion, based on two years of careful study, is that UFOs are probably extraterrestrial devices engaged in something that might very tentatively be termed surveillance.
Whenever someone who clearly does not believe in the UFO-ETFO phenomena, spends a lot of time on these UFO related sites, I always wonder why waste the time? Are they just argumentative by nature, or is there another agenda? The more they talk, the more I realize they haven't done much investigating at all. So there must be another reason.
We're here to try and show you that there is very little, if any, evidence of the ET hypothesis and that some of these so-called UFologist have very poor standards of investigation. And if I may add the some of the people posting here don't know much about their specialist subject eithersubject
"The evidence is overwhelming that Planet Earth is being visited by intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft. In other words, SOME UFOs are alien spacecraft. Most are not. It's clear from the Opinion Polls and my own experience, that indeed most people accept the notion that SOME UFOs are alien spacecraft. The greater the education, the MORE likely to accept this proposition"
Where is his evidence - opinion polls and HIS experience, they don't count I'm afraid. Opinion polls are not proof and my experience is that UFOs are natural phenomena or misidentification
I've followed SF for a few years andhe has produced is MJ12(shown to be a forgery) , Roswell (shown to be Mogul) and now the Aztec UFO ( shown to a fraud back in the 50s). Hardly convincing evidenced
What is "evidence".? Because what may be good for "you", will not be, for someone else. In other words, it would be almost impossible to come up with something that would satisfy everyone. An ETFO would surely be called a Hollywood prop. Good photos or video are always called fakes. So we put out the sightings of some of the most highly educated, and respected people in the world, Who have been around aircraft all their lives. When THEY have an unexplainable event, it has to add credibility.
I would accept evidence that would be acceptable in a court of law and can be shown to be true and accurate. And its a well known fact that witness aren't 100% accurate which is why law courts prefer supporting evidence in documents, scientific tests, etc.
Now surely after 60 odd year, Ufologist would have all sorts of verifiable and repeatable evidence. But it still hasn't turned up (apart from 1 case in America and Ufologists don't bother with that one)
Aren't credible witnesses"s word accepted as evidence in a court of law? The court may "prefer" supporting evidence, but I believe credible/accepted witnesses word is accepted.
That sounds like you would have to accept a Doctor's or Astronaut's word that the event happened as witnessed.
"But it still hasn't turned up"
Do you mean all kinds of evidence that hasn't been confiscated? Conspiracy or not, the military/government HAS taken stuff. Why would they do that?
Witness are only credible when they understand what they see or have knowledge of. For example a policeman isn't usually an expert on astronomy or rare weather phenomenon so would struggle to explain what they saw (eg a bolide). Also when seeing a silver thing in the sky, what do you compare it against to gauge size, distance ,etc. If you knew what it was or could compare it with something u knew then no problem But something strange or unknown then they are no different from u or me.
Ettrick8- You tell half-truths. Research the UFOs reported and tracked on multiple radar traveling next to flight #1628 over Alaska in 1986. The UFOs in this case were tracked on both ground and airborne radar, witnessed by *3 airline pilots, and confirmed by a FAA Division Chief. Captain Terauch is a credible wittnesses and was a senior captain with an excellent flying record and he estimated one of these UFOs flying in tight formation with him to be about twice the size of an aircraft carrier.
I looked at it and after 24 years what is it then? No one knows it could be weather phenomenon, secret military project,ball lighting, alien craft. The point I have been making all along is that unquestioning believers automatically assume ever light in the sky is an alien craft. .
Look at the recently solved 1954 sighting of Captain James Howard from his BOAC Stratocrusier of a shape changing jellyfish shaped object. It turned out to a rare and unusual mirage
The point I have been making all along is that unquestioning believers automatically assume ever light in the sky is an alien craft. And this is such a moot point next to the credible witnesses that are NOT unquestioning believers. And if the questioning observer's efforts are being sacked before the report in question can be properly investigated, you have a very suspicious situation. Ettrick8... honestly- Do you get paid as a shill? If so, it seems more like you work for me for free.
SF Rule 3 If you can't attack the data, attack the people, it's easier.
Also the Pilot wasn't sacked but suspended, you obviously don't understand the difference. And it would eb typical for a pilot who may be imaging things to be grounded while they investigated (after all you are so concerned with safety)
As as for working for you, you couldn't afford me.
"the Pilot wasn't sacked but suspended, you obviously don't understand the difference." Actually you pretend to not understand that all the efforts for a serious UFO investigation or shut down or sacked. Get it right Ettrick8- It is not typical for thousands of pilots to be making such similar reports which are in many cases backed up by radar and credible corroborating witnesses. Learn that Air safety is *everyones concern*.
Thanks for working for me for free. Youre doing a fine job. : )
Please show me a serious UFO investigation that have proven the ET connection as so far I haven't come across one yet, It only seems the debunkers spend any time or effort trying to dig deep enough to find the truth.
If thousands of pilots are seeing their alien craft which are flying so dangerously close to aircraft then why hasn't they been any crashes?
Air safety s everyones concern absolutely but chasing lights won't get anything solved
Ettrick8- How about first you showing me a UFO investigation that was done properly from its start. What makes you think there havent been any crashes or not since we havent had real UFO investigations done? Are you paid to be this transparent at some disinformation job or what? When an unregistered object is seen and confirmed on radar as it appears in restricted air space, its called guess what? An air safety concern. As for you, go chase and play with some lights.
Karl Pflock - Roswell: Inconvenient Facts and the Will to Believe
Karl Karl K. Korff - The Roswell UFO Crash: What They Don't Want You To Know and Spaceships of the Pleiades: The Billy Meier Story
Rex and Carol Salisberry - Gulf Breeze
Back to smears again or do you have any proof that I am paid by the government. The approach you are now taking is typical of the UFO believers who have lost the argument and resort to attacking the messenger
Ettrick8- Then if your not paid to spread your propaganda, half truths, and misinformation by a government or some agency outside of government, stop acting like it and go find a new hobby instead of spending this much time crying to us.
After that, research what John Callahan, another credible witnesses, and what he has to tell regarding the same report since he was the head of accidents and investigation for the FAA at the time that this all happened. Not knowing exactly what UFO is doesnt mean that there are no credible witnesses to an unregistered craft reported in restricted airspace and performing far outside of all known technical abilities. There are 1000s of such reports. You greatly LACK research with the UFO subject.
As for Callahan, maybe the CIA wanted him to keep quiet because the crew saw a secret project, after all ufos were used to cover up the U2 flight.
How are you getting on Condign Report I've asked you about that a couple of times but you seem to be afraid to look at it. I've looked at the cases you put towards me but you never look at the evidence I present to you. I wonder why?
To suggest that our government is responsible for major UFO sightings such as Ive listed where UFOs scare airline pilots and also where military pilots have been ordered to chase and fire upon UFOs, is to say that our government does not care about the safety of it's own citizens. You'd also have to be suggesting theyve been hoarding powerful clean energy technology since at least World War 2 as we choke on fossil fuel and waste our soldiers lives.
"I NEVER MENTIONED clean fuel" BUT I'm allowed too mention it. You're either very slow to connect the dots OR my statement pressed your buttons if you don't want more people to connect those dots. Now notice how you can only talk about natural phenomena as if it would somehow explain all the major UFO reports, including those reported by the military itself. Again you protest too loudly here as you cry about Stanton Freidmans fitting descriptions of a debunker steeped in transparent tactics.
How are you getting on Condign Report I've asked you about that a couple of times Ive already read it. Can you not read all of my comments? Perhaps Im moving too fast for you and you just cant process all the information. Look at my comment about the UK and the MOD from one week ago in response to the Condign report. I read the report a long time ago. Its old hat and not of any great value. In fact, its generally laughed at or disregarded by most people here as well as in the UK.
What on earth are you on and waht was th purpose of this selective use of quotes. All it appears to be is th use of Stanton Freidman Debunker rule no 3 If you can't attack the data, attack the people, it's easier.
Sorry I thought that you would have the intelligence to recognise irony but I was obviously mistaken so I will spell it out for .
You have adopted the same tactics that SF states that debukers use. Ss i frequently commented you have used each of the 4 four rules against me in these debates and you haven't even noticed it : ).
Ettrick8- Wrong again. As I've said before, you're not able to fireproof yourself by quoting Stanton Friedman from a pseudo-skeptic point of view. His words about debunkers seemed to have hurt you more badly than I first imagined.
I was mistaken you obviously don't understand irony and you have decided not to recognise that you have you have adopted every tactic stated by SF's 4 rules of debunkers.
You may believe that you have 'hurt me' but in fact I pity you in your blinker and limited mind set. It would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.
Maybe one day you will be able to prove me wrong but I very much doubt it.
I don't think you have read it as the report and its not old hat only being released 3 years ago and it certainly gave ufology a lot to think about. However I have noticed that you views are rather blinkered regarding any evidence that goes against your views.
From your previous posts I was expecting you to say that this secret report prepared before the FoI act came into force was a conspiracy by the UK government to hide the fact that they recovered a UFO in WW2
"it certainly gave ufology a lot to think about" for suspicious reasons as well as a lot to laugh about. The Condign report is of no value because as logic dictates, officials in charge will still scrutinize ANY and ALL new major UFO sightings privately, if not publicly or openly for it's citizens, MOD UFO desk and Condign report or not. You sound like you'd prefer that those kinds of UFO reports are not open to public scrutiny so naturally you're in love with the condign report. No surprise.
Well done you have now employed 2 off SFs 's Debunking Rules No 2 - Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up and No 3 - If you can't attack the data, attack the people, it's easier..
The Condign report showed why the UK time chasing lights in the sky, weather phenomena, etc. The MoD will investigate those events that are a threat to the country
And for your interest all the government UFO reports are available for inspection
Ettrick8- Your disinformation tactics and hypocrisy is at least entertaining. The MoD will continue to assess whether a UFO is a threat or not and any major UFO report. Closed panel conclusions are what have been allowed to be available to the public. Real inspection in the form of real investigation into the chains of command with all the extra details on the UFO event has always been blocked from the public and officials have been caught in big lies as well. Condign report = invalid.
Still in delusion mode i see, but of course teh MoD will still investigate threats to teh country and UK airspace all I said was they won't waste their time chasing lights in the sky, weather phenomena, Chinese lanterns, Venus, mistaken witnesses.
How can a secret report issued by the Defence Intelligent Intelligence (DI55) in 2000 (5 ys before the FoI) after analysing 10,000 ufo reports be invalid
"There are none so blind as those who will not see" John Heywood 1546
"How can a secret report issued by the Defence Intelligent Intelligence (DI55) in 2000 (5 ys before the FoI) after analysing 10,000 ufo reports be invalid"
Simple, by being a closed investigation that is not open for outside examination for checking it's validity and then by presenting its own self proclaimed results and declaring an official conclusion.
Let me see if I can understand your argument. In 1997 the UK government asks for a report to determine what there future strategy should be. The report includes analysis of over 10,000 UFO reports & it finds their is no alien origin to UFOs. You imply that the UK Gov don't want the truth from their their own investigation team who wasted 3 years of their time.
I know you believe in conspiracies but that last post had no credibility whatsoever. PS stop watch the X-files
"You imply that the UK Gov don't want the truth from their their own investigation team" Nope...*you* implied it just now, not me.
You and I dont really know if the UK government is even allowed to know anything about major case UFOs or if they're in accord with keeping what they may already know a big secret. I've never watched X Files though I've heard it's an entertaining series. I'll check it out some day for fun. Also, I don't try to assert credibility here but do quote credible people.
"You you are now saying the Condign report is an accurate report"
Ettrick8- Note the nervous typos now flying in greater abundance from your comments. We all make them but yours have suddenly spiked.
Show me where I've said that the Condign report is an accurate report. You may want to try to calm down and use some reality instead of fantasy. You cant have it both ways.
As you have now totally failed to disprove any point that I have made, which shows you case for UFOS is groundless, you have have went through misquoting, smears, false accusation and finally you have resorted to picking up on typos.
SF states "If you can't attack the data, attack the people, it's easier"
Perhaps I should just leave to you to your mutual admiration society with dahur & your cut & paste from the varies sites where you get you knowledge.
Ettrick8- The reality is you were unable to honestly answer to the points being made but instead used such disinformation tactics such as: Boolean Syndrome, Complex Question, Falsified Inductive Generalization, Spurious Superficiality, and Argument by Uninformed Opinion in almost all of your replies. You actually lost the debate long ago but, if you change your mind about leaving, you may continue to serve well as a catylist for information I and others will continue post. Otherwise, you may go.
I know you like quotes so here is one from 2010 from Jenny Randles former director of investigations with the British UFO Research Association (BUFORA)
Yet it was largely correct to say that most UFO sightings are mis-perceptions - there is little (if any) hard evidence for alien presence on earth, while a small residue of puzzling cases do indeed challenge our understanding of subjects as diverse as atmospherics, metaphysics and the nature of consciousness
You call that a vaild quote? It didn't even say anything pro or con one way or the other. Just a fragmented space filler. It's probably out of context too like you try to accuse others of doing to try to cover yourself. Did you also happen to forget to use quotation marks for that "quote"?
No i will stay if only to show anyone who actually visit this sight how ill informed you are.
If I lost the debate ages ago why am I still here and why do you never actually answer any of the questions that I put to you. The only time you did was on the Condign report and it took days before you replied and your counter argument was hardly convincing, lacked conviction & was contradictory
But then the web sites that you use are focused on Blue Book
"If I lost the debate ages ago why am I still here"
My guess is it's either because you're paid to do this misinformation gig or that you have a problem with your ego and reality. Maybe its because you enjoy telling giant lies. For example, I don't use websites based on Project Bluebook and anyone can verify the quotes I've used as being in context from a variety of sources. You're can't address the questions and points made.
Is that what happened to Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong, they thought they saw a UFO and it turned out to a bit of their spacevraft.
I'm sure also that Astronauts are familiar with all the phenomenon that they will encounter in space! Just because tehy see something doen't mean to say that it is an ET. Occam Razor applies and also evidence of what they saw is required
We're here to try and show you that there is very little, if any, evidence that these so-called debunkers do anything but make noise, and that some,(most) of them have very poor standards of investigation. And if I may add that some of the people posting here don't even know much about their special mission of debunking this subject either.
Hey Ettrick8- Speaking of debunkers and shills, I'm noticing something sorta funny in here. Just a question but ...Have you gotten so angry with Dahur that youre resorting to marking his comments as spam? If so, I want you to know that I don't believe people should be censored just for giving you a good debate and it would only show a weakness on your part to make a point if that's what youre doing. Is that you doing the spam marking on him? We can restore or cut and re-paste his post if not.
Ettrick8- Or as Shakespeare would writeyou "doth protest too much me thinks" and Stanton Friedman's debunker descriptions fit you to exact perfection. He wrote them specifically for debunkers, remember? Id say he hit the mark very well judging by how you can't stop crying about it.
Oh good we are back at the quote game and I can quote Shakespeare too
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."
& I must admit that with reference to your arguments
Yes I was vexed by you taking quotes out of context & then adding your own delusions but then I should have been ready for this as its a typical cheap ploy from the blinkered UFO believer. After all , just look at what happened to Buzz Aldrin
The record of quotes will speak for themselves and anyone is free to verify the context from multiple valid sources rather than just take your little word for anything. I enjoy reading these quoted opinions from people more far more credible than you.
"The least improbable explanation is that these things are artificial and controlled ... My opinion for some time has been that they have an extraterrestrial origin."
~ Dr. Maurice Biot (leading aerodynamicists and mathematical physicist)
So In other words, you have to do handstands now for the sake of your own damage control and present falsified generalizationsl. More quotes you say? Ok..
"I am aware that hundreds of military and airline pilots, airport personnel, astronomers, missile trackers and other competent observers have reported sightings . . . These UFOs are interplanetary devices systematically observing the earth, either manned or under remote control, or both".
"Its time to find out what the truth really is thats out there. We ought to do it really because its right. We ought to do because quite frankly, the American people can handle the truth and we ought to do it because its the law."
~ John Podesta- Advisor to president Obama and Former Chief of staff speaking at a Washington Press Conference concerning the need for UFO disclosure.
When it comes to UFOs to me if your a skeptic either your in pure denial of the evidence or your too stupid to realize what's going on. And debunkers are straight idiots trying to debunk somthing that's completely real. It's like trying to debunk existence of atoms.
"The negative claims of pseudo-skeptics who offer facile explanations must themselves be subject to criticism. If a competent witness reports having seen something tens of degrees of arc in size (as happens) and the scoffer, who of course was not there -- offers Venus or a high altitude weather balloon as an explanation, the requirement of extraordinary proof for an extraordinary claim falls on the proffered negative claim as well."
I agree. These so-called hypotheses of the sceptics are not hypotheses at all: they are pseudo-explanations which only work by selecting data which fits them and ignoring data which doesnt.
I agree skeptics can to to eager to provide an answer but Ufoologists are too keen to see everything as a UFO and refuse to accept any evidence that disproves their belief
Was the spelling intentional? U-fool-ogists, ha ha. Love it! Oh, I agree. All I wish to claim is that there are data in the reports of things seen and experienced which cannot be explained (or certainly cannot easily be explained) within the current scientific framework - nothing more. Some very interesting patterns have emerged from analyses of these reports. It may even be - dare I say - that there are implications for our understanding of the nature of consciousness and reality.
Debunkers are "PAID" government professional LIARS... supposedly professional men and women who at one time received funding by the government or are still funded at their University or Corporation ie: Bell labs. These LIARS prey on and hope the general population will heed what they say because there "Psychologists" "Doctors" "Lawyers" and alike.. They all know that Aliens are here and have been for millions of years. The truth is out there if only you research it.
greg357159 1 month ago
The truth will stand up to the most extraordinary skepticism . I feel that most UFoligists draw the line between skeptics and debunkers at who is just skeptical and who proved them wrong. The existence of other life in the universe is almost certain . However we need to be realistic if a race really found a way around the universal speed limit of light and traversed millions of light years would they really be interested in sticking a probe up a rednecks ass? Or fucking us apes? I Hope not.
ZachVMNTX1 1 year ago
This is bizarre. There is no such thing as a "debunker" according to this definition given by kevin. I am a skeptic since I am looking for the truth and yet so many people have told me I'm a debunker because i refuse to see the "truth?" Jesus. There is NO scientific proof of the existence of ET craft in our skys and no amount of "hey look at all the evidence" changes that. If it were proved beyond a doubt the entire scientific community would get behind it. it hasn't. Go figure.
theydonotfly 1 year ago
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@theydonotfly There is no evidence because you do not want to see it.
wulfshelmut 1 year ago
Airline pilots, police officers and military pilots and radar specialist have been reporting UFOs and not aliens. They want UFO's investigated. You should too because this involves air safety and national security. You entrust these people with your life and yet your government is denying your consideration by not having open investigations and so that's what's bizarre and no matter if it's alien craft or not. Skeptics research objectively and honestly but that's not the debunkers style at all.
lllwindrunner 1 year ago
Anyone has to consider the possibility that your strongest UFO evidence can be thoroughly confiscated if you find it and try to get it to your local news agency because they will want to fact check that material with higher authorities before running the story. Our U.S. government might have some big concerns about letting your alien evidence go out into the world because of all the major impact it would have on not just us but them, politically and other ways.
lllwindrunner 1 year ago
"Scientists and skeptics? They spend more time and energy explaining the uninvestigated...rather than investigating the unexplained." George Knapp
dahur 2 years ago
"It appears to be a metallic object......tremendous in size....directly ahead and slightly above .... I am trying to close for a better look."
-Captain Thomas Mantell, USAF--Reporting to the tower at Goodman airforce base on a UFO they had picked up on radar and requested him to investigate. They were his last known words. Mantell's plane was later found strewn across a stretch of ground just southwest of Franklyn, Kentucky.
dahur 2 years ago
Ettrick8- I'm more than happy to post even more quotes for you and your job here is to trigger them so stay hard at work:
"We lost between 16-18 ICBMs (nuclear tipped Inter Continental Ballistic Missiles) at the same time UFOs were in the area. (A high ranking Air Force officer) said, Stop the investigation; do no more on this and do not write a final report."
~ Captain Robert Salas US Air Force
Discussing UFO's being reported as missiles lost power to launch in a CNN, LKL interview *2008
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 3
Reliable reports indicate there are objects coming into our atmosphere at very high speeds and controlled by thinking intelligences.
Navy Admiral Delmar Fahrney in a public statement during 1957
dahur 2 years ago 2
@Dahur
Long time no hear where have yiou been? Instead of using 50 year old quotes how about answering the questions I left you with?
Ettrick8 2 years ago
@Ettrick8
"Instead of using 50 year old quotes how about answering the questions I left you with? "
What's that? you want more 50 year old quotes. OK. I''ll see what I can do. This is the oldest one I have.
"Well informed people know it is impossible to transmit the voice over wires and that were it possible to do so, the thing would be of no practical value."
- Editorial in the Boston Post (1865)
The future will quote the skeptics-debunkers of today. Just as we are doing of the past.
dahur 2 years ago
@dahur
Instead of using old quotes why don't you put you own thoughts or arguments into words. Everyone uses the occasional quote to justify their stance but when your whole argument is just quotes then you are saying that you have nothing worth saying!
Ettrick8 2 years ago
@Ettrick8
"Instead of using old quotes why don't you put you own thoughts or arguments into words"
OK matey. How 'bout this.
Telling something to a debunker, is like talking to a deaf person.
Showing something to a debunker, is like showing it to a blind person.
Is that a little more clear now?
dahur 2 years ago
@Dahur
Is that the best you can come up with? Hardly a reasoned argument to support your case. Its won't convince anyone visiting this site.
Ettrick8 2 years ago
@Ettrick8
Tally ho guv'na! The Doctor's prognosis is his patient is feeling a little under the weather today.
His remedy is a dose of quote to be taken visually twice, then plenty of rest.
"We were naturally anxious to get hold of one of the [UFOs]. We told pilots to do practically anything in reason, even if they had to grab one by the tail."
Major Jeremiah Boggs,U.S. Air Force.
dahur 2 years ago
Here's another "old" quote for ya guv.
I am convinced there was thought behind the things manoeuvres.
Lieutenant George Gorman, F51 pilot after being in a 30 minute dogfight with a small UFO in 1948.
dahur 2 years ago 2
@Dahur Instead of using quotes that are decades old, do you have any orginal thoughts?
Ettrick8 2 years ago
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@Ettrick8
"Instead of using quotes that are decades old, do you have any orginal thoughts? '
Yup. But I love posting quotes of these very credible witnesses, mainly 'cause the debunkers hate them so much! And when people see them, it makes them realize if Astronauts, high ranking military officials, pilots experience these events, there has to be something to it.
This is fun, and I've got 100's of 'em.
dahur 2 years ago
lllwindrunner,
Well said, indeed.
I hope he comes back. We were able to use him to educate many uninformed individuals. This worked out very well.
dahur 2 years ago
@Illwindeunner and dahur
The last time I heard the drivel that your guys spout to each other was from 'Plan 9 from Outer Space'
After all your evidence (mostly pasted from a couple of web sites) that you put forward as your own ideas, you have still failed to produce anything that would convince any intelligent independent thinker but as Thomas Sowell said
"It is futile to talk facts to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance."
Be seeing you
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"After all your evidence (mostly pasted from a couple of web sites) that you put forward as your own ideas" << is just one example sentence of a compound liar at work. Ettrick8 - Tell the truth. I have never offered quotes as evidence of ET or as my own ideas but I am content to let people more qualified than you to speak for themselves in the quotes I've pasted which have been in context and can be found from multiple valid sources online or off. You're a failure at your job of disinformation.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
"In my mind, there is no question that they're out there. My Career is well established. My texts books are required reading in all the major capitals on planet earth. If you want to become a physicist to learn about the unified field theory-you read my books. Therefore, I'm in a position to say: Yes- Most likely they're out there, perhaps even visited, perhaps on our moon." - ABC News Quote
~ Professor Michio Kaku, Author of Theoretical Physics UNY
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
"I was there at [Project] Bluebook and I know the job they had. They were told not to excite the public, not to rock the boat... Whenever a case happened that they coud explain--which was quite a few--they made a point of that, and let that out to the media. . .Cases that were very difficult to explain, they would jump handsprings to keep the media away from them. They had a job to do, rightfully or wrongfully, to keep the public from getting excited."
~Dr. J. Allen Hynek,
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@illwindrunner
And has Dr Hynek proved unusual nature of UFOS and wasn't he the guy that promoted the swamp gas explanation
Ettrick8 2 years ago
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@Ettrick8
"And has Dr Hynek proved unusual nature of UFOS and wasn't he the guy that promoted the swamp gas explanation "
He sure did! And IF you had investigated it, you would have found out he started out a skeptic. But after interviewing so many credible witnesses, he died a believer in the UFO phenomena. All this stuff can be found out "IF" someone wants to. It's there, if one has an open mind, eyes, logic, and common sense that is. I won't do your research for you.
dahur 2 years ago
"Dr Hynek proved unusual nature of UFOS and wasn't he the guy that promoted the swamp gas explanation" Exactly! At first he tried to do what the military wanted him to do, which he came to realize was was just propaganda and then came clean. He's not the only guy that came clean about Project Bluebook either. It's a well know history fact now that Bluebook was an attempt to sweep all the more serious UFO reports under the rug with dumb explanations like swamp gas.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 2
Again has Dr Hynek actually proved teh unusual nature of UFOS and proved what they are?
And again with the Blue Book waht about all teh other studies that have been undertaken
Ettrick8 2 years ago
Exact cut and paste from Ettrick8 > Again has Dr Hynek actually proved teh unusual nature of UFOS and proved what they are?
Have you proved every UFO is a natural thing and what they are not? No.
Exact cut and paste from Ettrick8 > waht about all teh other studies that have been undertaken
Such as what? The UK version of Bluebook called the Condign report? No.
Do you want airline pilots flying us around or people guarding our nuclear weapons if that many of them are hallucinating UFOs?
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 6
if UFO reports merit scientific inquiry, one must also admit that in no other field of inquiry the scientist is so handicapped by an odd & discouraging assemblage of "data." More than 90% of these reports are found to be hoaxes or poor accounts of well-known events. Under those circumstances an unexplained residue of perhaps 10% is no basis to believe in miracles. Its more reasonable to assume that this residue is so distorted or incomplete as to defy all analysis.
Dr. G Kuiper, Astronomer
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"Taking into account the facts that we have gathered from the observers and from the location of their observations, we concluded that there generally can be said to be a material phenomenon behind the observations. In 60% of the cases reported here (references cited), the description of this phenomenon is apparently one of a flying machine whose origin, modes of lifting and/or propulsion are totally outside our knowledge."
~ French Space Agency, GEPAN Report , 1978 Vol 1, chapter 4
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@illwindrunner
Doesn't your reference web site have more up todate quotes than those from the 50s, 60s and 70s. It a typical trick of pseudoscience to used very old material to support their case and ignore the latest information
Ettrick8 2 years ago
@Ettrick8
"It a typical trick of pseudoscience to used very old material to support their case and ignore the latest information "
What page is that on in the pseudoscience handbook? I need to read it myself.
So you like old quotes? Here's another....
Unknown objects are operating under intelligent control... It is imperative that we learn where UFO's come from and what their purpose is...
Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter Director, Central Intelligence Agency 1947-1950
dahur 2 years ago
So In other words, not only do you attempt to ignore the importance of history but also lie and ignore any of the other UFO cases, documents and quotes from more recent times that are also right here in this very thread. Again, you're caught in your own web of lies.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 2
Accusing someone of lying with no evidence not only makes your self look foolish but destroys your credibility
I have looked at every case you have put forward and propsed alternative and more prosaic explanations, I have agreed that science should look at these anomalous phenomenon to find the explanation, so what problem do you have with me. I have only challenged you and required you to prove you case but after a few parries you resort to false accusations.
Science is all about proof
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"Science is all about proof"
And cover-up is all about deception and denial.
"I have agreed that science should look at these anomalous phenomenon to find the explanation"
If what you mean here is that UFOs really do need to be investigated properly by scientist who are not being told what to say for propaganda purposes by some government agency, then you've finally said at least one thing here I can agree with. Over-all, I have no problem with you because you've helped trigger extra info.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 5
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 9
indeed science is about proof. However when someone refuses to see the proof that is right in front of them, because he or she (in this case you) is dead set on not believing (or at least taking an unbiased look at said proof) the science factor seases to exist.. in such a case it stops beeing science and becomes onrdinary debunkiorism :)
kor314 2 years ago 6
FACT IS THERE HAS BEEN NO PROOF
Joeyjumpoff1 2 years ago
@Joeyjumpoff1 lol there is enough proof out there to be found and studied, yet too those who wish to go through life with blindfolds on,it will always be a clearcut case of proof though denial... yet!!! a common mistake amongst debunkers is the believe that if one shouts (and caps are concidered shouting FYI) and repeats the lie loud and often enough it will magicaly turn in to a truth...
;-)
kor314 1 year ago
@kor314 what are you saying ? I m a debunker becuase I dont assume something that changes everything about Life & the galaxy.
Thats a huge step & I'm very gullible
Joeyjumpoff1 1 year ago
@Joeyjumpoff1 if you truely think that is what i said, i strongly suggest you read it again.. i didn't say you dont assume something.. i merely stated that if you know where to look and make an effort, there is plenty proof worth studying :)) this does not necisarily mean you can proof existence of 'alien UFO's' beyond reason of a doubt, however it does mean there is evidence which needs (and deserves examening..
:)))
kor314 1 year ago
@kor314 Most cases have be explained & have been down to earth. The conspiracy theories just are from the movies, people want to believe because its just a fantasyof theres
Joeyjumpoff1 1 year ago
@Joeyjumpoff1 Sure they have. Suuure they have. lol Whatever makes you feel better and sleep better at night. lol
wulfshelmut 1 year ago
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kor314 1 year ago
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kor314 1 year ago
#1The 1997 Pheonix AZ UFO sighting was witnessed by an estimated 10,000 including the governor of the state. He is a retired air force pilot by the way. The air force keep changing it's stories. They first claimed they were dropping flares. The Gov said. Nope, flares don't fly in formation fixed onto to something the shape of a giant triangle est. hundreds of feet in length. Then they tried to say it was Wart Hog jets. He said Nope, wart hog jets make a loud sound and this thing was silent.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 2
We have discussed Pheonix and it has been solved and if a jet is far away you can't hear the noise.
An astronomer saw a formation of ejet flying at high altitude but nobody wanted to know about his evidence
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"An astronomer saw a formation of ejet flying at high altitude but nobody wanted to know about his evidence"
So apparently you don't even want us to know his name or his credentials? Whys that?
And why does his lonely little account differ from 1000's of others including a state govenor who was also a trained military pilot and who all reported a large single solid shape? What time was his sighting anyway and did he watch the same object? Not likely. This case remains, to date, *un-solved*
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 4
#2 Later on, an odd night film was released that was from a different time from the time of the UFO sighting in an attempt to go back and re- apply the lie about flares but the good people of Peonix AZ. along with former governor Fife Symington, have soundly rejected the "flares" cover up excuse and to this day and a full on investigation has still been denied. Only shills, debunkers and cover up artist want flares or wart hog jets as a reason to fool and avoid investigations.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 2
It was clear that at least a few reported incidents might have involved rare but significant phenomena such as electrical activity high above thunderstorms (e.g., sprites) or rare cases of radar ducting. On the other hand, the review panel was not convinced that any of the evidence involved currently unknown physical processes or pointed to the involvement of an extraterrestrial intelligence
Dr. Peter Sturrock
SSE (Society for Scientific Exploration)
Ettrick8 2 years ago
Ettrick8 - Great...And now lets read the rest of what Dr. Peter Sturrock had say much to your dismay...
"The definitive resolution of the UFO enigma will not come about unless and until the problem is subjected to open and extensive scientific study by the normal procedures of established science."
~ Dr. Peter A. Sturrock, Professor of Space Science and Astrophysics and Deputy Director of the Center for Space Sciences and Astrophysics at Stanford University
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@illwindrunner
I like how you put a quote up that supports my argument and negates yours keep it up, it shows that when you move out of your comfort zone you begin to struggle with thinking
Ettrick8 2 years ago
Ettrick8- Again you have nothing to say anymore except for compound lies. For example- Youre the guy that came in here and started attacking peoples comments because *you* chould not attack the data. When we counter in defense of that, you cant take it and start your crying. The full story is here like a book for all to read and there's nothing you can do to stop anyone from reading it or the information we post. Enjoy.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
I have questioned the data and the arguments and if you don't like debate then you know what to do, just don't answer me and ignore me.
And be careful who your call a liar, show me to be a liar, otherwise I'm not the only person to threaten to go to Youtube Management.
Ettrick8 2 years ago
The nice thing here is that this all goes double for you but I would prefer you hang around and continue helping us as you have already by triggering extra UFO information from us and providing your sort of contrast. ; )
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 4
Therefore, on the basis of this evaluation of the information, it is considered to be highly improbable that any of the reports of unidentified aerial objects examined in this study represent observations of technological developments outside the range of present-day scientific knowledge. (United States Air Technical Intelligence Center 94)
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"As a consequence of my work on the voluminous air force files and, to a greater extent, of personal investigation of many puzzling cases and interviews with witnesses of good repute, I have long been aware that the subject of UFOs could not be dismissed as mere nonsense."
~ J. Allan Hynek- Lead scientific investigator for the USAs only official investigation into UFOs - Project Bluebook
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
I like this one as well Dahur...
"The evidence that there are objects which have been seen in our atmosphere, and even on terra firma, that cannot be accounted for either as man-made objects or as any physical force or effect known to our scientists, seems to me to be overwhelming... A very large number of sightings have been vouched for by persons whose credentials seem to me unimpeachable."
Lord Hill-Norton, Chief of Defense Staff, Ministry of Defense, U.K., 1973
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
"Maximum security exists concerning the subject of UFOs.
CIA Director, Allen Dulles
dahur 2 years ago
"There are some definite flight type characteristics that are seen now that I would say represent genuine UFOs...ie: instant acceleration; instant stop; vertical acceleration -up into the air and down to the ground; reverses in direction; right angle turns -all in silence -multiple objects sometimes separating and then going back into each other.
British Detective Constable Gary Heseltine - Police UFO reporting organisation,PRUFOS.
dahur 2 years ago
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"The evidence that there are objects which have been seen in our atmosphere, and even on terra firma, that cannot be accounted for either as man-made objects or as any physical force or effect known to our scientists, seems to me to be overwhelming... A very large number of sightings have been vouched for by persons whose credentials seem to me unimpeachable."
Lord Hill-Norton, Chief of Defense Staff, Ministry of Defense, U.K., 1973
dahur 2 years ago
lllwindrunner,
This is working out fantastic. So many people reading this thread, are seeing all these great quotes from respected individuals, and are now realizing there has to be something to this. Whenever a troll wants to argue, we are presented with a super opportunity to open eyes, minds, and thoughts. And I bet, we have done just that. Keep up the good work!
dahur 2 years ago
Dahur- Thanks!
I enjoy your very apt use of important historical UFO quotes and I agree totally that an argument addicted video troll or UFO debunker, can serve a very useful purpose for you, me, or any of us, as the unwitting catalyst that we can then use for spring-boarding even more information.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
"More than 10,000 sightings have been reported, the majority of which cannot be accounted for by any scientific explanation... I am convinced that these objects do exist and that they are not manufactured by any nation on Earth." "I can therefore see no alternative to accepting the theory that they come from some extraterrestrial source."
AIR CHIEF MARSHAL LORD DOWDING
Commander-in-Chief of the Royal Air Force
during the Battle of Britain
Sunday Dispatch, London, July 11, 1954.
dahur 2 years ago
"These are no lights in the sky. These are not mis-identifications of fantasy prone individuals. This is a cutting-edge technology being reported by reliable, trained observers, and it is something that goes beyond what we can do.
That to me suggests that if it is not ours, it belongs to someone else. If that technology is better than ours, then the extraterrestrial hypothesis seems to me the best explanation."
Nick Pope
Head of the British Ministry of Defence from 1991-1994.
dahur 2 years ago
"The official line from the Ministry of Defense is, 'Yes, this happened. No, we don't know what it is, but we say that it is of no defense significance.' How can it possibly be of no defense significance when your best jet is left for standing by a UFO? And, again, how can it be of no defense significance when your air defense region is routinely penetrated by structured craft?"
Nick Pope
dahur 2 years ago
Skeptic Quote -- "Radio has no future. Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible. X-rays will prove to be a hoax."
--William Thomson, Lord Kelvin English scientist, 1899.
Yogi Berra: "It's DejaVu all over again"
dahur 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I think Im going to start repasting Dahurs quotes that get suspiciously mis-marked as spam.
"They frequently saw them (UFOs) and then told me, I'm positive that there were three crashes by 1952".
June Mcrain -Wright Patterson Secretary 1941-1952
June 27th 1997 -Interview with Police Sgt Clarkson.
Very nice quote Dahur!
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@lllwindrunner
I just un-spammed your latest post too. Seems someone doesn't like,(or can't argue against), what we're saying. This just confirms we're having an effect on them! LOL
dahur 2 years ago
No just somebody hitting th ewrong button. If you notice they are quite close together.
So far you appear to losing every. Still not responded to my last couple of questions yet I see
Ettrick8 2 years ago
How do these quotes back up your arguments. Any idiot can paste a smart or dumb quote but you need real evidence to support your case.
"Try it you might like it.....?"
Dr Pepper
Ettrick8 2 years ago
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@Ettrick8
Don't like them, do ya guv? OK. then, here's some more. How do ya like me now?
"It was a giant plate of light. It lit up the whole horizon with a glare. It was flying low over the landscape and appeared to be spinning"
Police Constable Eric Pinnock - Warminster, Wiltshire,30/11/65. "Try it you might like it.....?"
"Any idiot can paste a smart or dumb quote"
LOL. The pot calling the kettle black.
dahur 2 years ago
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@Ettrick8
"Just because tehy see something doen't mean to say that it is an ET"
Never said it was. Said it greatly improves the chances it was.
"Is that what happened to Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong, they thought they saw a UFO and it turned out to a bit of their spacevraft."
Prev statement is typical of debunker attempting damage control
The "bit" was the booster--6000 miles away.
Neil Armstrong has always said very little, but Buzz has. And it wasn't a "bit" of their spacecraft he saw.
dahur 2 years ago 2
"From their maneuvers and their terrific speed I am certain their flight performance was greater than any aircraft known today."
-Colonel Carl Sanderson, USAF, commenting on his sighting of two circular silver UFOs in close proximity to his plane over Hermanas, New Mexico.
dahur 2 years ago 2
I've always looked at the Condign report as Project Blue Book number two. In other words, both are a joke. I've always thought their explanations were hilarious. Great comedy.
dahur 2 years ago
No as they go against you beliefs you chose to ignore them, which isn't very surprizing. Try opening you mind and seeing both sides of the debate.
While Condign has some errors, its still provides teh explanation of majority of the sightings and its finding were confirmed by Codign
Ettrick8 2 years ago
@Ettrick8
"While Condign has some errors, its still provides teh explanation of majority of the sightings and its finding were confirmed by Codign "
LOL! News flash!......People are you reading this? Condign confirms his own findings! Yippeee! So UFO's are Venus, and swamp gas after all. SImply amazing.....(can't stop laughing)
dahur 2 years ago
@dahur
Oh people are you reading this the books written by Friedman, Randle, Schmitt, etc confirms they own findings!!!
You walked straight into that one with your eyes open dahur
The Condign report was issued to the Government (5 years before the FoI act) so either they set out to lie to the Government (and anticipated that this secret report may be released) or the report is an honest and accurate report.
You believe what you want (and you will) and I'll believe the truth
Ettrick8 2 years ago
@Ettrick8
LOL I know what you need, a double dose of quote. Read them, get a good night's sleep, and I'm sure you'll feel better in the morning.
"We must insist upon full access to discs recovered. In the LA case the Army grabbed it and would not let us have it for cursory examination."
J Edgar Hoover
Former Director of the FBI
"We had a job to do, whether right or wrong, to keep the public from getting excited."
Dr J Allen Hynek
Investigator with the US Air Force Project Blue Book.
dahur 2 years ago
@dahur
How about answering my last post rather than posting quotations
Ettrick8 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Ettrick8
"How about answering my last post rather than posting quotations "
I think how about another quotation.
"They frequently saw them (UFOs) and then told me, I'm positive that there were three crashes by 1952".
June Mcrain -Wright Patterson Secretary 1941-1952
June 27th 1997 -Interview with Police Sgt Clarkson.
dahur 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Condemnation without investigation is the HIGHEST FORM OF IGNORANCE"
- Albert Einstein
dahur 2 years ago
My own present opinion, based on two years of careful study, is that UFOs are probably extraterrestrial devices engaged in something that might very tentatively be termed surveillance.
DR. JAMES McDONALD
Atmospheric Physicist
Congressional Hearing 1968
dahur 2 years ago
"I know other astronauts share my feelings.... And we know the government is sitting on hard evidence of UFOs."
Colonel Gordon Cooper
Mercury Nine, Gemini Five Astronaut
dahur 2 years ago
Whenever someone who clearly does not believe in the UFO-ETFO phenomena, spends a lot of time on these UFO related sites, I always wonder why waste the time? Are they just argumentative by nature, or is there another agenda? The more they talk, the more I realize they haven't done much investigating at all. So there must be another reason.
dahur 2 years ago 2
We're here to try and show you that there is very little, if any, evidence of the ET hypothesis and that some of these so-called UFologist have very poor standards of investigation. And if I may add the some of the people posting here don't know much about their specialist subject eithersubject
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"The evidence is overwhelming that Planet Earth is being visited by intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft. In other words, SOME UFOs are alien spacecraft. Most are not. It's clear from the Opinion Polls and my own experience, that indeed most people accept the notion that SOME UFOs are alien spacecraft. The greater the education, the MORE likely to accept this proposition"
-- Stanton Friedman Nuclear Physicist
dahur 2 years ago
Where is his evidence - opinion polls and HIS experience, they don't count I'm afraid. Opinion polls are not proof and my experience is that UFOs are natural phenomena or misidentification
I've followed SF for a few years andhe has produced is MJ12(shown to be a forgery) , Roswell (shown to be Mogul) and now the Aztec UFO ( shown to a fraud back in the 50s). Hardly convincing evidenced
Ettrick8 2 years ago
What is "evidence".? Because what may be good for "you", will not be, for someone else. In other words, it would be almost impossible to come up with something that would satisfy everyone. An ETFO would surely be called a Hollywood prop. Good photos or video are always called fakes. So we put out the sightings of some of the most highly educated, and respected people in the world, Who have been around aircraft all their lives. When THEY have an unexplainable event, it has to add credibility.
dahur 2 years ago 2
@dahur
I would accept evidence that would be acceptable in a court of law and can be shown to be true and accurate. And its a well known fact that witness aren't 100% accurate which is why law courts prefer supporting evidence in documents, scientific tests, etc.
Now surely after 60 odd year, Ufologist would have all sorts of verifiable and repeatable evidence. But it still hasn't turned up (apart from 1 case in America and Ufologists don't bother with that one)
Ettrick8 2 years ago
@Ettrick8
Aren't credible witnesses"s word accepted as evidence in a court of law? The court may "prefer" supporting evidence, but I believe credible/accepted witnesses word is accepted.
That sounds like you would have to accept a Doctor's or Astronaut's word that the event happened as witnessed.
"But it still hasn't turned up"
Do you mean all kinds of evidence that hasn't been confiscated? Conspiracy or not, the military/government HAS taken stuff. Why would they do that?
dahur 2 years ago
Witness are only credible when they understand what they see or have knowledge of. For example a policeman isn't usually an expert on astronomy or rare weather phenomenon so would struggle to explain what they saw (eg a bolide). Also when seeing a silver thing in the sky, what do you compare it against to gauge size, distance ,etc. If you knew what it was or could compare it with something u knew then no problem But something strange or unknown then they are no different from u or me.
Ettrick8 2 years ago
Ettrick8- You tell half-truths. Research the UFOs reported and tracked on multiple radar traveling next to flight #1628 over Alaska in 1986. The UFOs in this case were tracked on both ground and airborne radar, witnessed by *3 airline pilots, and confirmed by a FAA Division Chief. Captain Terauch is a credible wittnesses and was a senior captain with an excellent flying record and he estimated one of these UFOs flying in tight formation with him to be about twice the size of an aircraft carrier.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
I looked at it and after 24 years what is it then? No one knows it could be weather phenomenon, secret military project,ball lighting, alien craft. The point I have been making all along is that unquestioning believers automatically assume ever light in the sky is an alien craft. .
Look at the recently solved 1954 sighting of Captain James Howard from his BOAC Stratocrusier of a shape changing jellyfish shaped object. It turned out to a rare and unusual mirage
Ettrick8 2 years ago
The point I have been making all along is that unquestioning believers automatically assume ever light in the sky is an alien craft. And this is such a moot point next to the credible witnesses that are NOT unquestioning believers. And if the questioning observer's efforts are being sacked before the report in question can be properly investigated, you have a very suspicious situation. Ettrick8... honestly- Do you get paid as a shill? If so, it seems more like you work for me for free.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@illwindrunner
SF Rule 3 If you can't attack the data, attack the people, it's easier.
Also the Pilot wasn't sacked but suspended, you obviously don't understand the difference. And it would eb typical for a pilot who may be imaging things to be grounded while they investigated (after all you are so concerned with safety)
As as for working for you, you couldn't afford me.
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"the Pilot wasn't sacked but suspended, you obviously don't understand the difference." Actually you pretend to not understand that all the efforts for a serious UFO investigation or shut down or sacked. Get it right Ettrick8- It is not typical for thousands of pilots to be making such similar reports which are in many cases backed up by radar and credible corroborating witnesses. Learn that Air safety is *everyones concern*.
Thanks for working for me for free. Youre doing a fine job. : )
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 2
@Illwindrunner
Please show me a serious UFO investigation that have proven the ET connection as so far I haven't come across one yet, It only seems the debunkers spend any time or effort trying to dig deep enough to find the truth.
If thousands of pilots are seeing their alien craft which are flying so dangerously close to aircraft then why hasn't they been any crashes?
Air safety s everyones concern absolutely but chasing lights won't get anything solved
Ettrick8 2 years ago
@Ettrick8
"It only seems the debunkers spend any time or effort trying to dig deep enough to find the truth.'
That right there is the funniest statement I've read yet, I actually laughed out loud when I read it.
"why hasn't they been any crashes?'
You mean, that you know of.
You've obviously only touched on the UFO-ETFO subject. It's very clear by your posts, you haven't done much research at all.
dahur 2 years ago
@dahur
Instead of laughing out loud and using selective quotations how about actually answering my last post.
Or is it too difficult to construct a rational,try sleeping on it and I'll see you tomorrorw
Ettrick8 2 years ago
Ettrick8- How about first you showing me a UFO investigation that was done properly from its start. What makes you think there havent been any crashes or not since we havent had real UFO investigations done? Are you paid to be this transparent at some disinformation job or what? When an unregistered object is seen and confirmed on radar as it appears in restricted air space, its called guess what? An air safety concern. As for you, go chase and play with some lights.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@Illwindrunner - Proper investigations
Karl Pflock - Roswell: Inconvenient Facts and the Will to Believe
Karl Karl K. Korff - The Roswell UFO Crash: What They Don't Want You To Know and Spaceships of the Pleiades: The Billy Meier Story
Rex and Carol Salisberry - Gulf Breeze
Back to smears again or do you have any proof that I am paid by the government. The approach you are now taking is typical of the UFO believers who have lost the argument and resort to attacking the messenger
Ettrick8 2 years ago
Ettrick8- Then if your not paid to spread your propaganda, half truths, and misinformation by a government or some agency outside of government, stop acting like it and go find a new hobby instead of spending this much time crying to us.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@illwindrunner
Now you have lost all credibility when you stop debating and resort to smears but that one SFs rules your are using again
Ettrick8 2 years ago
Ettrick8-
Do you think Youtube staff might like to help us out the person that's marking our comments as spam? We all want fair debate including you, right?
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@Illwindrunner
Absolutely so go and ask them who it is that marking your comments as spam, i know its not me no matter what you thing
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"no matter what you thing" .....lol!
I'm enjoying all your nervous little typos.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
After that, research what John Callahan, another credible witnesses, and what he has to tell regarding the same report since he was the head of accidents and investigation for the FAA at the time that this all happened. Not knowing exactly what UFO is doesnt mean that there are no credible witnesses to an unregistered craft reported in restricted airspace and performing far outside of all known technical abilities. There are 1000s of such reports. You greatly LACK research with the UFO subject.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
I see you are still using SF's rules.
As for Callahan, maybe the CIA wanted him to keep quiet because the crew saw a secret project, after all ufos were used to cover up the U2 flight.
How are you getting on Condign Report I've asked you about that a couple of times but you seem to be afraid to look at it. I've looked at the cases you put towards me but you never look at the evidence I present to you. I wonder why?
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"Maybe the CIA wanted him to keep quiet
To suggest that our government is responsible for major UFO sightings such as Ive listed where UFOs scare airline pilots and also where military pilots have been ordered to chase and fire upon UFOs, is to say that our government does not care about the safety of it's own citizens. You'd also have to be suggesting theyve been hoarding powerful clean energy technology since at least World War 2 as we choke on fossil fuel and waste our soldiers lives.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@illwindrunner
Your take a comment & then twist & turn it to suit your own limited view. I NEVER MENTIONED clean fuel that is YOUR DELUSION.
I gave a genuine example of UFOs being use& turn it around to suit yourself. I noticed you omit the natural phenomenon explanations.
Congratulations you use the tactics of a believers. Ignore facts, misquote opposition smear & them.
Hmm you apply SF Rule 2
Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"I NEVER MENTIONED clean fuel" BUT I'm allowed too mention it. You're either very slow to connect the dots OR my statement pressed your buttons if you don't want more people to connect those dots. Now notice how you can only talk about natural phenomena as if it would somehow explain all the major UFO reports, including those reported by the military itself. Again you protest too loudly here as you cry about Stanton Freidmans fitting descriptions of a debunker steeped in transparent tactics.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
How are you getting on Condign Report I've asked you about that a couple of times Ive already read it. Can you not read all of my comments? Perhaps Im moving too fast for you and you just cant process all the information. Look at my comment about the UK and the MOD from one week ago in response to the Condign report. I read the report a long time ago. Its old hat and not of any great value. In fact, its generally laughed at or disregarded by most people here as well as in the UK.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
I want to make sure I put the following quotes from Ettrick8 in quotation marks to be totally clear for the readers of my previous 3 reponses to him:
"The point I have been making all along is that unquestioning believers automatically assume ever light in the sky is an alien craft"
"Maybe the CIA wanted him to keep quiet"
"How are you getting on Condign Report I've asked you about that a couple of times"
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@illwindrunner
What on earth are you on and waht was th purpose of this selective use of quotes. All it appears to be is th use of Stanton Freidman Debunker rule no 3 If you can't attack the data, attack the people, it's easier.
Ettrick8 2 years ago
Ettrick8- lol...Again, it's no use crying to me about it. Stanton Friedman wrote those things about people like you, not me.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 2
@ illwindrunner
Sorry I thought that you would have the intelligence to recognise irony but I was obviously mistaken so I will spell it out for .
You have adopted the same tactics that SF states that debukers use. Ss i frequently commented you have used each of the 4 four rules against me in these debates and you haven't even noticed it : ).
Ettrick8 2 years ago
Ettrick8- Wrong again. As I've said before, you're not able to fireproof yourself by quoting Stanton Friedman from a pseudo-skeptic point of view. His words about debunkers seemed to have hurt you more badly than I first imagined.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@illwindrunner
I was mistaken you obviously don't understand irony and you have decided not to recognise that you have you have adopted every tactic stated by SF's 4 rules of debunkers.
You may believe that you have 'hurt me' but in fact I pity you in your blinker and limited mind set. It would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.
Maybe one day you will be able to prove me wrong but I very much doubt it.
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"Maybe one day you will be able to prove me wrong"
Why? Theres no need to really bother. Youve done that to yourself already many times over in this thread.
"They frequently saw them (UFOs) and then told me, Im positive that there were three crashes by 1952".
June Mcrain -Wright Patterson Secretary 1941-1952
June 27th 1997 -Interview with Police Sgt Clarkson.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
I don't think you have read it as the report and its not old hat only being released 3 years ago and it certainly gave ufology a lot to think about. However I have noticed that you views are rather blinkered regarding any evidence that goes against your views.
From your previous posts I was expecting you to say that this secret report prepared before the FoI act came into force was a conspiracy by the UK government to hide the fact that they recovered a UFO in WW2
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"it certainly gave ufology a lot to think about" for suspicious reasons as well as a lot to laugh about. The Condign report is of no value because as logic dictates, officials in charge will still scrutinize ANY and ALL new major UFO sightings privately, if not publicly or openly for it's citizens, MOD UFO desk and Condign report or not. You sound like you'd prefer that those kinds of UFO reports are not open to public scrutiny so naturally you're in love with the condign report. No surprise.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 2
@ Illwindrunner
Well done you have now employed 2 off SFs 's Debunking Rules No 2 - Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up and No 3 - If you can't attack the data, attack the people, it's easier..
The Condign report showed why the UK time chasing lights in the sky, weather phenomena, etc. The MoD will investigate those events that are a threat to the country
And for your interest all the government UFO reports are available for inspection
Ettrick8 2 years ago
Ettrick8- Your disinformation tactics and hypocrisy is at least entertaining. The MoD will continue to assess whether a UFO is a threat or not and any major UFO report. Closed panel conclusions are what have been allowed to be available to the public. Real inspection in the form of real investigation into the chains of command with all the extra details on the UFO event has always been blocked from the public and officials have been caught in big lies as well. Condign report = invalid.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@illwindrunner
Still in delusion mode i see, but of course teh MoD will still investigate threats to teh country and UK airspace all I said was they won't waste their time chasing lights in the sky, weather phenomena, Chinese lanterns, Venus, mistaken witnesses.
How can a secret report issued by the Defence Intelligent Intelligence (DI55) in 2000 (5 ys before the FoI) after analysing 10,000 ufo reports be invalid
"There are none so blind as those who will not see" John Heywood 1546
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"How can a secret report issued by the Defence Intelligent Intelligence (DI55) in 2000 (5 ys before the FoI) after analysing 10,000 ufo reports be invalid"
Simple, by being a closed investigation that is not open for outside examination for checking it's validity and then by presenting its own self proclaimed results and declaring an official conclusion.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@illwindrunner
Let me see if I can understand your argument. In 1997 the UK government asks for a report to determine what there future strategy should be. The report includes analysis of over 10,000 UFO reports & it finds their is no alien origin to UFOs. You imply that the UK Gov don't want the truth from their their own investigation team who wasted 3 years of their time.
I know you believe in conspiracies but that last post had no credibility whatsoever. PS stop watch the X-files
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"You imply that the UK Gov don't want the truth from their their own investigation team" Nope...*you* implied it just now, not me.
You and I dont really know if the UK government is even allowed to know anything about major case UFOs or if they're in accord with keeping what they may already know a big secret. I've never watched X Files though I've heard it's an entertaining series. I'll check it out some day for fun. Also, I don't try to assert credibility here but do quote credible people.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@illwindrunner
You you are now saying the Condign report is an accurate report, please make up your mind. You can't have it both ways
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"You you are now saying the Condign report is an accurate report"
Ettrick8- Note the nervous typos now flying in greater abundance from your comments. We all make them but yours have suddenly spiked.
Show me where I've said that the Condign report is an accurate report. You may want to try to calm down and use some reality instead of fantasy. You cant have it both ways.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@illwindrunner
As you have now totally failed to disprove any point that I have made, which shows you case for UFOS is groundless, you have have went through misquoting, smears, false accusation and finally you have resorted to picking up on typos.
SF states "If you can't attack the data, attack the people, it's easier"
Perhaps I should just leave to you to your mutual admiration society with dahur & your cut & paste from the varies sites where you get you knowledge.
Be seeing you!
Ettrick8 2 years ago
Ettrick8- The reality is you were unable to honestly answer to the points being made but instead used such disinformation tactics such as: Boolean Syndrome, Complex Question, Falsified Inductive Generalization, Spurious Superficiality, and Argument by Uninformed Opinion in almost all of your replies. You actually lost the debate long ago but, if you change your mind about leaving, you may continue to serve well as a catylist for information I and others will continue post. Otherwise, you may go.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@illwindrunner @Dahur
I know you like quotes so here is one from 2010 from Jenny Randles former director of investigations with the British UFO Research Association (BUFORA)
Yet it was largely correct to say that most UFO sightings are mis-perceptions - there is little (if any) hard evidence for alien presence on earth, while a small residue of puzzling cases do indeed challenge our understanding of subjects as diverse as atmospherics, metaphysics and the nature of consciousness
Ettrick8 2 years ago
You call that a vaild quote? It didn't even say anything pro or con one way or the other. Just a fragmented space filler. It's probably out of context too like you try to accuse others of doing to try to cover yourself. Did you also happen to forget to use quotation marks for that "quote"?
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 3
@Illwindrunner
No i will stay if only to show anyone who actually visit this sight how ill informed you are.
If I lost the debate ages ago why am I still here and why do you never actually answer any of the questions that I put to you. The only time you did was on the Condign report and it took days before you replied and your counter argument was hardly convincing, lacked conviction & was contradictory
But then the web sites that you use are focused on Blue Book
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"If I lost the debate ages ago why am I still here"
My guess is it's either because you're paid to do this misinformation gig or that you have a problem with your ego and reality. Maybe its because you enjoy telling giant lies. For example, I don't use websites based on Project Bluebook and anyone can verify the quotes I've used as being in context from a variety of sources. You're can't address the questions and points made.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 2
@Ettrick8
"If you knew what it was or could compare it with something u knew then no problem."
I disagree. If an astronaut sees something he can't compare it too, it adds to his credibility, that he's reporting an ETFO.
dahur 2 years ago
Is that what happened to Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong, they thought they saw a UFO and it turned out to a bit of their spacevraft.
I'm sure also that Astronauts are familiar with all the phenomenon that they will encounter in space! Just because tehy see something doen't mean to say that it is an ET. Occam Razor applies and also evidence of what they saw is required
Ettrick8 2 years ago
Comment removed
dahur 2 years ago
We're here to try and show you that there is very little, if any, evidence that these so-called debunkers do anything but make noise, and that some,(most) of them have very poor standards of investigation. And if I may add that some of the people posting here don't even know much about their special mission of debunking this subject either.
dahur 2 years ago
"Debunker is an individual who discredits and exposes claims as being false, exaggerated or pretentious"
One thing i have noticed is that any evidence that shows UFOs are not alien craft or the proof is the reult of poor investigations is ignored.
It seems Stanton Friedman Rule no 2 for debunkers is applied by the unquestioning believer:
Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up
Ettrick8 2 years ago
Hey Ettrick8- Speaking of debunkers and shills, I'm noticing something sorta funny in here. Just a question but ...Have you gotten so angry with Dahur that youre resorting to marking his comments as spam? If so, I want you to know that I don't believe people should be censored just for giving you a good debate and it would only show a weakness on your part to make a point if that's what youre doing. Is that you doing the spam marking on him? We can restore or cut and re-paste his post if not.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
I have not got a clue what you are whittering on about but thats not surprizing from your posts, where yoiu distort or ignore facts.
I have not spammed anyone, nor have I censored anyone but rather that email me about it your decide to smear instead.
Keep it up you have become so typical of the worst kind of UFO believer
I also see you keep using SF Rule 3. If you can't attack the data, attack the people, it's easier.
Ettrick8 2 years ago
Ettrick8- Or as Shakespeare would writeyou "doth protest too much me thinks" and Stanton Friedman's debunker descriptions fit you to exact perfection. He wrote them specifically for debunkers, remember? Id say he hit the mark very well judging by how you can't stop crying about it.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 2
@Illwindrunner
Oh good we are back at the quote game and I can quote Shakespeare too
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."
& I must admit that with reference to your arguments
Yes I was vexed by you taking quotes out of context & then adding your own delusions but then I should have been ready for this as its a typical cheap ploy from the blinkered UFO believer. After all , just look at what happened to Buzz Aldrin
Ettrick8 2 years ago
The record of quotes will speak for themselves and anyone is free to verify the context from multiple valid sources rather than just take your little word for anything. I enjoy reading these quoted opinions from people more far more credible than you.
"The least improbable explanation is that these things are artificial and controlled ... My opinion for some time has been that they have an extraterrestrial origin."
~ Dr. Maurice Biot (leading aerodynamicists and mathematical physicist)
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
You are so good on quotes but you get the Shakespeare one wrong "doth protest too much"
In Shakespeare's times "protest," doesn't "object" or "deny" but means "vow" or "declare solemnly,"
So in its true and original meaning it applies to you
Illwindrunner declares solemnly to much or in modern English
Illwindrunner affirms so much as to lose credibility.
Anybody can find quotes to back them up but at the end of the day (like your lack of evidence) proves nothing
Ettrick8 2 years ago
So In other words, you have to do handstands now for the sake of your own damage control and present falsified generalizationsl. More quotes you say? Ok..
"I am aware that hundreds of military and airline pilots, airport personnel, astronomers, missile trackers and other competent observers have reported sightings . . . These UFOs are interplanetary devices systematically observing the earth, either manned or under remote control, or both".
~ Colonel Joseph Bryan, CIA
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
@illwindrunner
Yet another quote and no evidence so predictable
Ettrick8 2 years ago
"Its time to find out what the truth really is thats out there. We ought to do it really because its right. We ought to do because quite frankly, the American people can handle the truth and we ought to do it because its the law."
~ John Podesta- Advisor to president Obama and Former Chief of staff speaking at a Washington Press Conference concerning the need for UFO disclosure.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago
Is this this Kevin Randle who supported Jim Ragsdale, Glen Dennis, Frank Kaufman? 3 highly credible witnesses for the Roswell crash !
Ettrick8 2 years ago
When it comes to UFOs to me if your a skeptic either your in pure denial of the evidence or your too stupid to realize what's going on. And debunkers are straight idiots trying to debunk somthing that's completely real. It's like trying to debunk existence of atoms.
Skull666Bones 2 years ago 3
"The negative claims of pseudo-skeptics who offer facile explanations must themselves be subject to criticism. If a competent witness reports having seen something tens of degrees of arc in size (as happens) and the scoffer, who of course was not there -- offers Venus or a high altitude weather balloon as an explanation, the requirement of extraordinary proof for an extraordinary claim falls on the proffered negative claim as well."
~ Bernard Haisch, Astrophysicist.
lllwindrunner 2 years ago 2
I agree. These so-called hypotheses of the sceptics are not hypotheses at all: they are pseudo-explanations which only work by selecting data which fits them and ignoring data which doesnt.
archdeaconj 2 years ago 3
I agree skeptics can to to eager to provide an answer but Ufoologists are too keen to see everything as a UFO and refuse to accept any evidence that disproves their belief
Ettrick8 2 years ago
Was the spelling intentional? U-fool-ogists, ha ha. Love it! Oh, I agree. All I wish to claim is that there are data in the reports of things seen and experienced which cannot be explained (or certainly cannot easily be explained) within the current scientific framework - nothing more. Some very interesting patterns have emerged from analyses of these reports. It may even be - dare I say - that there are implications for our understanding of the nature of consciousness and reality.
archdeaconj 2 years ago
Yes I read the term in a magazine a few years ago and it seem quite apt for the narrow minded believers and in