Health Care: Does Canada Do It Better?

[iqalliqdq]

y'all know our health care is free, keep a girl bangin with a fresh pair of teeth ;)

[MrDutch2009]

Mr. Fluffy will get a CT scan before I do. Those darn Canadians!

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 So what you're telling me is that as a result of supply certain people in your country will not receive care so that others can. If those 40 million all of a sudden were included and all your rationing BWay of caps and denials were erased ,your system would collapse because their isn't enough supply... and that if the supply had to meet actual demand your costs would be even higher.That's sad. Right now you have a lot of people that are....well...SOL

[tindallpe]

Won’t this result in rationing like in Canada?

The U.S. already rations care. Rationing in U.S. health care is based on income: if you can afford care, you get it; if you can’t, you don’t. A recent study found that 45,000 Americans die every year because they don’t have health insurance. Many more skip treatments that their insurance company refuses to cover. That’s rationing. Other countries do not ration in this way.

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - I like how you admit that Canada rations care. As to the US... um, what? 95% of people in the US had health insurance last year and they can all afford care.

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 " I like how you admit that Canada rations care"No Canada does not "Ration" care.What I said was that, unlike your system, you will see whatever lacks in our system because we publish all wait times and analysis of the system and your system hides the horrors of denials, caps and bankruptcy but manages to publish the fact that 40 million have no coverage and 45 thousand die every year because of it.

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - See, if you look at this objectively, then it is a no brainer. Canadian health care has everyone covered, but does so by having everyone pay into a system that they may never use in their lives. Canadians have a much high tax liability than Americas, ceterus peribus. With all things equal, a family making $150,000 USD will pay about 20% in the US and 38% in Quebec. To you, it may not matter. But $27,000 means a lot to a family.

[tindallpe]

Won’t this just be another bureaucracy?

The United States has the most bureaucratic health care system in the world. Over 31% of every health care dollar goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. Because the U.S. does not have a unified system that serves everyone, and instead has thousands of different insurance plans, each with its own marketing, paperwork, enrollment, premiums, and rules and regulations, our insurance system is both extremely complex and fragmented.

[tindallpe]

Medical research does not disappear under universal health care system. Many famous discoveries have been made in countries with national health care systems. Laparoscopic gallbladder removal was pioneered in Canada. The CT scan was invented in England. The treatment for juvenile diabetes by transplanting pancreatic cells was developed in Canada.

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - All the examples you provided were conceived by private funding. These were not government innovations.

[tindallpe]

Is national health insurance ‘socialized medicine’?

No. Socialized medicine is a system in which doctors and hospitals work for and draw salaries from the government. Doctors in the Veterans Administration and the Armed Services are paid this way. The health systems in Great Britain and Spain are other examples

[tindallpe]

But in most European countries, Canada, Australia and Japan they have socialized health insurance, not socialized medicine. The government pays for care that is delivered in the private (mostly not-for-profit) sector. This is similar to how Medicare works in this country. Doctors are in private practice and are paid on a fee-for-service basis from government funds. The government does not own or manage medical practices or hospitals.

[tindallpe]

If there is this much rationing, why don’t we hear about it? And if other countries ration less, why do we hear about them? The answer is that their systems are publicly accountable, and ours is not. Problems with their health care systems are aired in public; ours are not.

[tindallpe]

For example, in Canada, when waits for care emerged in the 1990s, Parliament hotly debated the causes and solutions. Most provinces have also established formal reporting systems on waiting lists, with wait times for each hospital posted on the Internet. This public attention has led to recent falls in waits there.

[tindallpe]

In U.S. health care, no one is ultimately accountable for how the system works. No one takes full responsibility. Rationing in our system is carried out covertly through financial pressure, forcing millions of individuals to forgo care or to be shunted away by caregivers from services they can’t pay for.

[tindallpe]

Call it a class system if you like.Certainly no where near your own.We make an effort for that not to happen you don't..Medicine $164,952 $167,064

Int. Medicine $170,889/ $169,450 (hospitalist) $248,721

Ob/Gyn $253,160 $261,412

Gen. Surgery $278,433 $247,375

Anesthesia $309,019 $205,441

Urology $317,778 $279,982.

There are your salary differences Dortorss. can now incorporate and if done properly will pay no or very little tax

[tindallpe]

You may want to keep your eyes and ears open to see where the vac seen for aids comes from.It will probably be Canada.Canadians were pioneers in medicine with many firsts and that continues today.Stossel is full of it.He speaks in generalities using anecdotal evidence with the intent to coerce with opinion because he is a libertarian. This is garbage

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - Canada's healthcare system may work for Canadians... but Americans tend to enjoy the lower wait, lower cancer mortality rates and increased technological innovation. I will give you a tip... go check out the recipients of the Nobel Prize in Medicine/Psychology over the past 20 - 30 years and see how many Canadians have won vs. Americans who win. Astonishing no?

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 Wait times are not unreasonable and have set limits that are meant to be achieved.If they are not, these are the violations we need to be dealing with and they can be found in our system.true Our system is outperforming yours in many ways even if it isn't perfect. You can attribute 50 % of your personal bankruptcy to the cost of healthcare in the US.With the losses in your real estate markets this paint a pretty bleak picture

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - See... when you type undefined parameters like "not unreasonable", then you leave yourself open. People in Canada complain about wait times, where people in the US tend to complain about the cost. We understand there needs to be healthcare reform & we can easily lower our cost by increasing competition and tort reform. Under socialist medicine, there isn't anything you can do about your wait time other than try & pump more doctors in the system. But they are all leaving..

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 Actually you are wrong about the exodus of Dr.s from Canada and are using stats from the 1990's There is actually a net repatriation of Dr's to Canada. You say you can lower your costs with tort reform.So what is so difficult in pumping in more doctors.That is a simple solution. Our admin costs are less our acute beds are 3 to every 1000 yours are 2.8 per 1000 Check Medical tourism in Canada

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - Again, you just spew out erroneous statements without any sources to back them up. I'll ask you again... provide me with a link to your facts rather than just saying whatever comes to your mind. Thanks.

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 I just did.Read the post I'll spell it again.......Google..".Medical Tourism In Canada".

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - Oh.. you mean that Canadian propaganda site at the top of the results? The one that doesn't even list sources to it's claims? Please tell me you are pointing to a different one

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 You're not trying to tell me you are objective are you? Those are published facts. Why don't you refute any of those points ,your qualified nurses ratio(ours are university graduates),your admin costs, your per capita costs for health care. Some of our Dr.'s are actually paid more than your own.

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - Haha... I make arguments based on facts. Not based on propaganda. I have admitted time and time again that Canadian health care does a better job at basic preventative medicine. This is due to their focus on GPs. Again, It isn't my job to refute your claims... it is your job as a human being, while trying to have an intelligent conversation, to provide the sources by which you get your facts. How about you LINK me to those salary numbers.

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 Here are some more posts from PNHP..Physicians For a National Health Program.It's your system and these are your Doctors.I'm not trying to tell you whats best for the US but John Stossel can keep our system out of his bullsit because he is full of it.

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - There are many organizations of Canadians that hate your system and praise the US model. What John Stossel has reported is factually accurate. When you find a blatant lie, let me know.

[tindallpe]

@brogi007 We have think tanks in Canada that are right wing and others that are left but neither would ever trade our system for yours.Evolution of the system needs criticism and inefficiencies need to be expose constantly.Of course there will be dissension but you don't need to feed off of it to hide your own failures which everyone in the US knows are evident.The whole video is a lie because it is anecdotal.The woman doesn't even know we don't have socialized medicine.No credibility at all

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - Again, organizations exist on both sides... really you must take an objective look. The US system is currently expensive and I believe that it is in need of reform. Healthcare isn't free in Canada... everyone pays it in higher taxes. The issue comes with choice. Under a government health care like yours, people don't have the choice if they want healthcare on not. Healthy individuals are punished and people who choose to live bad lifestyles get a bump up.

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 So to be objective I will ask you this.If you could keep your hospitals and doctors independent of government with only one major change to your system,would you do it? That change is..instead of all the funding for care coming from private companies your premiums are now paid to state run insurance whereby there are no variations, everyone gets paid, everyone is covered and it's cheaper.

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - You bring up an interesting question. Being Canadian, I'm not sure how much you know about the US Constitution but I'll just say that our Constitution states that those powers not specifically given to the federal government, belongs to the States & the People. Thus your scenario would be in keeping with our ideology. However, your scenario doesn't seem likely to work without an increase in taxation, which defeats the whole purpose. States must maintain balanced budgets.

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 OK, I believe you would find that if your citizens we able to discontinue all premiums given to private insurance and redirect those same monies to state run insurance your service providers would receive far greater cash flows than they do though private insurance companies; and basically that is the only major fundamental difference between the operation of our two systems.

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - Wait... are you saying that physicians would receive more money under a state run insurance program than under private insurance?

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 You know what?..That is for you to decide.I have already shown the Physician salary comparisons. You set it up however you like. What I am saying is that after all the data is in, your private in insurance system is inefficient. It places huge stresses on your people from denials of coverage, caps, deductibles etc. Doctors should be well paid ,very well . They should be able to incorporate and expand services and become god awful rich, as far as I am concerned..

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - I'll address your concerns 1 by 1. ADMIN COSTS - Government gets to hide their admin. costs. What you don't see in their numbers is the cost to collect the taxes & the salaries of the politicians who set health policy. Include these numbers & admin. costs will be similar. RATIONING - In the US, everyone is allowed care disregarding the ability to pay. In Canada, rationing is simply accepted.

[tindallpe]

If we chose to we could simply open more private clinic at no cost to the taxpayer. I have always had complete accessibility and never pulled out a credit card You may be concerned, however, for the number of people that lose their homes trying to pay for healthcare in the US.

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - You could open more clinics at no additional cost? Are you insane? And again, the people that don't have health insurance in the US don't typically own homes. Thus no mortgage is lost, but yea....

[tindallpe]

@brog007 No additional cost to THE TAXPAYER.U have the idea that the only people uninsured are" Blacks and illegals".Listen, over half of your bankruptcies in the US are attributed to having to pay for healthcare. When you require open heart surgery and you are denied coverage, because it is a precondition or any other sustained medical problem kidneys cancer etc, you are screwed based on a decision made at head office.You then start mortgaging your assests.Don't you think that happens? 

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - Provide SOURCES!! You can't make outrageous claims like that without substantial evidence from unbiased sources lol - Umm... as to not increasing the "cost" to the taxpayer... again, are you crazy? Anything that costs the government, costs the taxpayer. If they increase revenue through higher taxes, they will decrease services elsewhere... c'mon man.. this isn't even fair lol

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 Are you understanding what I said ? Private clinics do NOT require Government funding....are you with me so far?...So why the hell would they require taxation HHMM? If we chose to.....ok.?."We could allow for the operation of more PRIVATE clinics" which would take pressures of the system..Are you with me on that or...no? 

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - You can't "make" there be more private clinics. People have to be incentived to open more private clinics. You can't just close your eyes, say a spell, and magically appears more private clinics. Canada is already moving away from government healthcare into more private system... makes perfect sense.

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 After all this you think we have "Government Healthcare" OK as Jim Carrie says in Pet Detective..........Bye Bye now...........

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 • You don't show your wait times or exclusions or caps on payments.That is what you would call"Rationing" .Wait times are not rationing and the US has them too. The US Rations health care by exclusion You have "Rationing"we don't You need to understand that the adinistration by the provinces is cheaper than through private insurance. You don’t get that.I have no concerns.

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - You can repeat the same thing over and over but it doesn't make it any more true. Everyone has access to care in this country. Even the illegals in this country have access to care so I don't understand your statement

[tindallpe]

Ok?.Charged for every item $1800 or whatever. We don't get capped when we need treatment. No one comes up to us and says after six months of chemo." UHH sorry buddy ..you’ve put up a good fight but it's over now you've reached you limit on coverage", but they do where you are. If you insist on keeping the status quo I guess you're going to do that.

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - lifetime maximums are so high that virtually no one reaches them.

[tindallpe]

@brog07 Agree completely..except Mass. wouldn't have had as many problems if EVERY state had single payer,and the insurance co./middlemen were removed nationwide. Hey,got a couple of bills here from taking my kid tothe ER when she bonked her head. X-ray & EKG (EKG...why?) About 10 min of Dr. time. Radiologic = 35.00, ER exam = 753.00 ER visit = 1701.07.Not worth filing on health insurance..2000.00 deductible,then they pay 80% Turned out nothing was wrong with her,just a small cut

peng 38 m ago

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - Right... take a shit on our Constitution and make everyone do something they don't want. haha.. you have to be an American to understand how serious we take our Founding documents

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 Well what is the forced purchasing of private insurance..Do you think that is Constitutional? It's Constitutional to have the States run healthcare insurance.Everyone down there blabs about the constitution and nobody has read it. I don't mean to be rude but I couldn't care less about your constitution. Why should I. We have "The Charter Of Rights And Freedoms".I've read much of your constitution however ,and it has been walked on to the point that it is unrecognizable

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 Provide sources..let me count the ways...Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.

[autumnsylver]

@broggi007 Some of the Americans who won are actually Canadian. There are others who were born in other places like the UK or Australia. If you compare the number of Canadians who won in the category of medicine vs the number of Americans (who weren't born in other countries), it's not that big of a difference. And since the US has a much bigger population than Canada, it would make sense that they would have more Nobel prize winners than Canada.

[broggi007]

@autumnsylver - It is about the Nation they won it under. C'mon... that's ridiculous. This isn't about where they are from... it's about under which system did they thrive to greatness. Seriously?

[gohan40129]

Why can't the vets do surgery on people in canada? Lol im serious though

[temporaryheaven]

And just for the record, Liam Neeson, Natasha Richardson's husband, said that he was very impressed with the care that Natasha received in Montreal. However, the damage was done, whether that "intensive trauma" machine was there or not. So don't go blaming the Canadian health care system for that. Unfortunately, I have no statistics to back me up, but I do believe that people die in the US, too?....Despite all their oh-so-unique technology? Maybe?

[temporaryheaven]

I don't recognize the system he just described. I live in a large urban centre, broke my foot, waited one hour on a bed in a separate room for a doctor, was given some kind of scan (looked like an MRI), a temporary cast, sent home the same day, Saturday. They made an appointment for Monday at 10 am for the permanent cast. My extended family also go through the system, no complaints. No idea what the hell this journalist is talking about. Average 24hr ER wait? BS. Great system. And free.

[autumnsylver]

[cont'd]

1960 Implementation of genetic screening programs for hereditary metabolic diseases in newborns.

1960 First implanted mammary artery into the heart wall in order to restore functionality of the heart.

1961 Discovery of blood-forming stem cells enabling bone marrow transplants.

1965 First artificial knee joint in the world created.

1969 Discovery of a carcino-embryonic antigen, a tumour marker for cancer.

I'll stop there, but there are many many more.

[broggi007]

@autumnsylver - Can you source this please. Also... go take a look at the Nobel Prize winner for the past 20 to 30 years... see how many times Canada shows up and how many times the United States shows up... haha

[autumnsylver]

{cont'd]

1952 First use of a device that determines whether or not a patient’s thyroid is cancerous through the use of radioactive iodine.

1956 Major breakthrough in virology by discovering that positive strand Ribonucleic Acid (RNA) could be infectious.

1957 Invention of the artificial cell for application in medicine and biotechnology.

1958 World first surgical treatment on cerebral aneurysms.

[cont'd]

[autumnsylver]

Also, he claims that government funded health care means innovations stop. Really? Because since 1950, Canada has created these innovations:

1950 Introduction of lumpectomy for treatment of breast cancer.

1950 Use of total body cooling as a method of making heart surgery safer.

1950 First neuro-surgical treatment of epilepsy performed

1951 First use worldwide of calibrated cobalt-60 for cancer radiotherapy treatment.

[cont'd]

[autumnsylver]

Canadian health care has some problems, but they're exaggerating them. They're making it look like people who have heart attacks are left to die in the hallway, or people with life threatening illnesses are made to wait for treatment. That's not how it is.

[gohan40129]

@autumnsylver yeah but they showed examples of life saving events that canada would of let them die. That the surgery happened in america. Maybe they are exaggerating the frequency of these events? So only 1 - 10 die because nonprofit government? Thats still horrible if its 10% because me or you may be the unlucky ones anytime. Well you because you are in canada right??

[autumnsylver]

@gohan40129 I think they exaggerated the fact that the condition was life threatening. I don't think it was. I've lived in Canada for the entire 35 years of my life, and not once have I ever heard of anyone not getting life saving treatment. I think them implying that Canada would have let them die is a complete and outright lie. If you have a life threatening condition, you get bumped to the front of the line.

[broggi007]

@autumnsylver - There is no exaggeration... it was considered an elective procedure, autumnsylver.

[autumnsylver]

@broggi007 If it was considered elective, then it wasn't life-threatening. If it were life-threatening, it wouldn't be considered elective. You can't have it both ways.

[broggi007]

@autumnsylver - Um... Her American physician said she had a few weeks to live. I'd call that life-threatening... wouldn't you? C'mon now... this is getting foolish

[autumnsylver]

@broggi007 He was either exaggerating or lying.

[broggi007]

@autumnsylver - Well this woman seemed real and ABC, the producer of 20/20, is one of the oldest and most trusted programming stations in existence. You may not like it... but what happened to this woman is a fact. It happened. I'm sorry.

[TheSinglepayer]

Twitter ushealthcare. We are missing the boat. Certain advances are worth the price and we will get them despite unfounded beliefs. Innovation is not always driven by greed. Scientific advances often go unrewarded for decades. There is an opportunity to create the best, most efficient, most advanced healthcare system in the US at a lower cost. It should be a constitutional right to have your most precious asset, your health, protected. The essence of productivity is your health. Wake up America.

[TheSinglepayer]

Long waits? The foundation of these systems are nothing like that of the US. Scare tactics are not going to help lower costs. Innovative approaches to the issues that plague our health care system are not spoken about here. The US has a unique approach to healthcare which equals healthcare at any cost. There are ways to lower utilization in the long run and use the administrative advantages of Single Payer. One plan, one restored reimbursement system, an opportunity to make profit with no losers

[OmegaRage]

Yep, I've met Canadians who live in America (who would have thought that?) that prefer the American system. One lady in particular didn't care how much it costed her because it's your health, you cant put a price on it.

[TheBCExperience1]

A famous tenor, a Sheik, a Prime Minister, and an Archbishop -- these were the examples of people who chose to come to the US for medical treatment because they can actually afford it. Why do Americans pay so much for these medical innovations if the only ones who can afford them within reason are the rich?

[55otter]

Holy crap; Who believes this shit. Thank God I'm Canadian. The U.S. is in serious trouble if they have to spread this junk to stop the democrats from creating an American healthcare system.You people south of the border should be ashamed of yourselves! Thank you Canada!

[stephenpaquet]

America don't swallow this shit Socialized is a saviour of millions, get over your greed the part of you that thinks that I may help a freeloader most of them are in that position through no fault of there owen. The up side is worth the price. Yes we have our problems sometimes you have to wait, for instance I had to wait a month to get in to a sleep clinic for sleep apnea but in my 54 years as a Canadian thats it. I see a family Doc on a regular basis and have seen many specialists.

[94Cioppa]

yea but Canada doesn't have blacks that are free loaders

[zammmerjammer]

@94Cioppa We also have fewer racist dipshits.

[94Cioppa]

@zammmerjammer You would be racist too if you lived in Yonkers, NY like I.

[zammmerjammer]

@94Cioppa Oh really? Is it something about that particular latitude and longitude? Something in the air or water, maybe?

...or perhaps it's just you.

[94Cioppa]

@zammmerjammer lmfao

[bradysjoblom]

I lived in Canada for two years and it was and there was a clear contrast in the quality of care. Socialized medicine is seriously flawed and leads to serious problems.

[Mijyns]

@bradysjoblom he might have lived in the states for awhile, hence the accent you hear in the vid. people sometimes lose accent and partly gain another. but i don't know him, so maybe he could be faking it..maybe not.

[Counterbrilliance]

That supposed "Canadian" doctor they're interviewing has a subtle Brooklyn accent lol - there's no way he is actually a Canadian, we don't have accents like that over here at all. He's a fucking actor!

[Counterbrilliance]

all this* typo

[mr13sam]

im Canadian we have free healthcare and a better life expectancy soooo.... ya....

[666or999]

@mr13sam Being better than the american corpratist healthcare isn't hard.

[mr13sam]

@666or999 it was more for people who were saying canada is worse then america

[georgelopezblows]

Why doesn't Stossel talk about the myraid of Americans who must wait in line for care, too? in Canada, if you have a health emergency, they will treat you. Don't beleive the right. Ask Canadians and stop watching Fox news.

[broggi007]

@georgelopezblows - Canadians must wait, on average, much longer than their American counterparts for diagnostic and specialized medical care. Emergency surgeries and transplants take so long under socialized medicine, that many choose to travel south to get their procedures. On the flip side, preventive medicine is better under socialized medicine because they are trying to keep the costs as low as they can due to the number of people in the system and the shortage of physicians.

[georgelopezblows]

@broggi007 How much is "much longer"? Can you prove it? This is the internet. Your audience is waiting.

[broggi007]

@georgelopezblows - I can explain the basic concepts of supply and demand if you need me to. When you have more people with access that want something (demand) and not enough people, physicians, to provide that thing (supply), then you end up with a shortfall. It's that simple. make sense?

[georgelopezblows]

@broggi007 Simple, yet you failed to actually prove that Canadians wait longer than Americans.

Remember that Canadian hospitals are not being inundated with gang related shootings. In the U.S. it is very common. A shooting will get anyone to the front of the line, both in Canada and the U.S..

Why don't you actually go yo Canada and ask Canadians? They aren't exactly sneaking over here in droves for medical purposes. In fact, they recently honored the man who created their system.

[broggi007]

@georgelopezblows The point is proven by simple supply/demand models. Many of my friends here in the States are Canadians and they loved their system. Of course, they all admit that they never needed surgery during their time in the Canada.

We aren't talking about simple shootings...we are talking about complex surgeries. Surgeries that the Canadian government often sees as "elective". If you have a common cold, then Canada wins. If you need life-saving surgery, then the USA wins. that simple

[georgelopezblows]

@broggi007 My sister-in-law lives in Vancouver. She has undergone chemo for cancer. She did not need to seek help from the states. Currently, you can find numerous examples on the internet of Canadians who were treated successfully for major medical problems.

Also, shooting are serious the majority of the time. Just saying, "it's that simple" does not make it so, sir.

[broggi007]

@georgelopezblows - I'm glad you sister was able to get care. It's unfortunate that many of here fellow countrymen don't get the same care. There will always be exceptions to the norm, but the simple facts are that there is less wait for surgeries under US medical system than under socialized medicine.

Shootings are emergency care, which is not what we have been talking about. I'm talking about heart surgeries, organ transplants, etc. What "makes it so" is the pure logic involved. WADR :)

[georgelopezblows]

@broggi007 "Many of her fellow countrymen don't get the same care"? Just how many, sir? According to reports you can find online, many Canadians are the "exception". Could it be that the horror stories of Canadian heath care are actually the exceptions? The average wait time might be higher in Canada, but unlike the states, they don't leave the hospital with 150k in medical bills. Did you know some people die prematurely in the states because they don't want to incur the medical debt?

[broggi007]

@georgelopezblows - Ah.. so here you at least admit that Canadians wait longer for care on average (a claim you dismissed not but a few days ago) - as to medical bills... those with insurance don't see these kinds of bills you speak of. We need reform in the US, but through tort reform and increased competition that will drive the price of insurance down to a level that is affordable to everyone. We can get everyone insured through their own choice, rather than through government force

[georgelopezblows]

@broggi007 I said they "might" wait longer. I did not say they do wait longer.

Tort reform sounds great, but unless it happens immediately, people will still die and go broke from medical expenses. Let's not forget that some people who are insured have filed bankruptcy due to the high costs.

Personally, I would rather see government force in which everyone would be insured, vs private competition that leaves some people out to dry.

[truevoice08]

@georgelopezblows "private competition that leaves some people out to dry." Before we can even talk about "private competition", why not remove the AMA monopoly w/c restricts the supply of medical professionals through its licensing? What about the fact that 40% of total health care spending in the US is government spending? What about health insurance being tied to employment? What about regulations on interstate competition? What about government mandates on what to insure?

[georgelopezblows]

@truevoice08 Basically, we need to turn the clock back almost a century. How do we accomplish that without causing massive unemployment?

[truevoice08]

@georgelopezblows I never said we should turn the clock back and cause unemployment.

[broggi007]

@georgelopezblows - If you implement tort reform and increase insurance competition, then you make private insurance affordable to virtually everyone. What makes it so expensive now is the bureaucracy involved.

[georgelopezblows]

@broggi007 Canada does not consider heart surgeries and organ transplants to be elective. If you need critical care in Canada, you will be placed on priority.

Pure logic? Well, seeing how "logic" is relative, I still can't agree with you. You are taking an opinion and painting it as a universal truth. Try other media outlets to research Canada's health care system. It seems the only outlets that give it a bad review are those in the U.S..

[autumnsylver]

@broggi007 The wait times in Canada are caused by not enough specialists. We don't have enough specialists because they're leaving to go to the US where they can make more money under your greedy, profit-driven "health care" system.

[broggi007]

@autumnsylver - Here we agree.. oddly enough. Specialist from Canada are trying to come down here where they are paid fairly. Maybe you, or your Canadian cohorts, don't think that much of physicians... but we feel that doctors SHOULD be some of the wealthiest members of our society. The amount of training and responsibility in their hands should be rewarded. This is why we have the best doctors and residents... haha.. what is laughable is your excuse for a healthcare system

[autumnsylver]

@broggi007 If someone needed surgery - as in, they would die without it - they get it within hours. They don't make people wait months for life-saving surgery. The government also doesn't call life-saving surgery "elective". A boob job is elective. Heart transplant surgery is not.

Please, stop watching fox news for your information. They're a bunch of crackpots.

[broggi007]

@autumnsylver - You may very well be referring to "emergency" surgery. Yet some people want hip replacements and cancer treatment. These take much longer in Canada by the simple fact that Canada has less equipment per capita. MRIs, CT machines, etc. Now... I would say that a blocked artery is NOT an elective procedure.. yet the Canadian government thinks it is... You can interpret that however you want.

[autumnsylver]

@broggi007 An American trying to explain to Canadians how the Canadian health care system works? That's laughable.

[broggi007]

@autumnsylver - I will reply to your comments one at a time. First is you lack of logic in your arguement. You are saying that an American can't explain Canadian Health Care. So by that logic, You or I can't have a discussion regarding the Japanese recession... because after all... we aren't Japanese right? Seriously? Is this how they teach Canadians to think?

[autumnsylver]

@broggi007 What I mean is that I grew up in Canada. I have personal experience with the Canadian health care system. I know what it's like and what it's not like. You don't live in Canada, and don't have any personal experience with the Canadian health care system. The information you're getting about our health care system is from TV and the internet, which might be misleading or outright false. You're trying to tell me that I don't know what the system is like, which is laughable.

[broggi007]

@autumnsylver - Again.. your statement was founded on the premise that someone who lived under Canadian health care can better access it than someone who hasn't but has access to modern day analysis. This logic is flawed. It is the same as saying that an American who has a PhD in Japanese culture can't debate with a little Japanese boy....

[autumnsylver]

@broggi007 Your comparisons are flawed. What you're saying is like saying that I can know everything about German culture by reading about it online even though I've never been there.

Yes, I do have better knowledge of the Canadian health care system, because I have *experienced* it. You haven't. You've just read about it. You can't get a clear idea of what the system is like by reading some reports from JCUSH.

[broggi007]

@autumnsylver - Not at all. What I am telling you is that you can have a logic and insightful debate with a German by doing extensive research on German culutre and never having been to Germany. If you don't understand that simple premise, I guess we are at an impasse.

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 Check out the video on the side of this page of Americans using our system.Millions, that's right, millions of Americans don't have any coverage at all. No one I know has ever been left out or denied the most expensive treatment there is. When you have people that are "Very Happy " with the system and then find out the bill is zero it's a bit of a different experience. The video.............".Can't Go Home: Americans In Canada". ...because of you healthcare system.

[tindallpe]

On another note.Forbes Magazine(An American Publication) has recently rated number one country in the world in which to conduct business. That country is Canada. Don't like talk to" Forbes Magazine".

[Ixpatli]

Canada is better than USA because they care about their own people. and the usa cares more about israel than their own people.

[tindallpe]

I always respected 20/20 and John Stossel; but this report really threw me....very inaccurate and misleading

[tindallpe]

Emergency rooms in Canada use a triage system whereby the intake nurse qualifies the patient and the response time is set. Nurses require a BSc.degree in Canada. The categories are 1.Resucitation 2.Emergent,3.Urgent 4.Less Urgent and Non Urgent.

[tindallpe]

Response time requirements are immediate for 1 and 2 with a fractile response of 98%.Number 3 requirement is 30 minutes with the fractile response met 90% of the time" Less Urgent" is allowed 60 minutes ,met 85%.Non urgent 120 minute allowed met 80% of the time. “ The Canadian Association Of Emergency Physicians” This report is outrageous; 23 hours to be admitted. What an asinine statement. I could name a dozen state of the art research facilities in Canada such as

[tindallpe]

The Lawson Research Institute, The John Robarts Research Centre, All university campuses in particular Uiniversity Of Western Ontario, Uof T, McGill University , U Of Winnipeg, UBC, UWO research obtains 141.5 million in private funds with equal or greater funds from government. annually and Billions are provided for cancer research in Canada annually. There is nothing in this report that reflects any form of reality whatsoever It is true 5% of the population does not have a family Dr.

[tindallpe]

It is also true that these same people have access to “Walk In Clinics” that are readily available that provide “same day” access to Dr’s even though they mat not be their regular Dr. In other words, anyone can see a Dr any time, usually the same day. The Canadian woman in this report was misdiagnosed or she would have received the appropriate surgery at the proper wait time. There are definitely wait times in Canada but this report, in no way reflects the truth of our system

[harrisonconstantinou]

i am canadian i went to get a cat scan, i got it the next day

[Counterbrilliance]

@harrisonconstantinou Exactly, me too. Just last weak I had an MRI for a severe migraine headache lasting ten days with a nose bleed, and saw a Neurologist within three days as well for further inquiry. I also had surgery last year when I was 20 for a rare benign tumor in my neck region, which was operated in just weeks after it was initially found by a top head and neck surgeon in Ontario - ll this and I didn't have to pay a single penny. Americans are such **liars**!

[theodaman420]

Stossel is a libertarian, so government is bad. Universal health care is not this revolutionary concept. We have long waits now for care in the U.S.

[tindallpe]

To be clear,there are NO out of pocket costs for the system and ABC and John Stossel are lying through their teeth to protect Privat Insurance. The Canadian system has a 90% approval rating.These people are liars

[tindallpe]

Does Canada do it better?There is zero waiting for real emergencies.Everyone can choose their own Dr.We have superior survival rates for colerectal cancer,childhood Lukemia,Kidneytransplants and Liver transplants.Our costs are half what they are in the US.All types of surguries are done here to absolute world standard or better The system is paid for via taxation.There are NO deductables,NO denials,NOcaps on coverage.All wait times are reasonable or better and NO ONE ever goes bankrupt,ever

[tindallpe]

No one waits 23 hours .Maybe you should also point out that with the triage system in emergency reception in hospitals, an emergency is taken in immediatley. All triage priority entries are met to 90% satisfaction you lying ,cheating, slanderous assholes. ABC will no longer be on my cable TV.You fucking lying idiots.You are worse than Fox News. I shouldn't be pissed;after all it is the US public that is being snowed by these liars.We already have a good system in Canada .You are the losers

[TheRealAkaRai]

@tindallpe You demonstrate your profound ineptitude again. ABC isn't a cable network. Somehow I don't think they'll be hurt by losing you, you hilarious imbecile.

[autumnsylver]

@tindallpe "No one waits 23 hours"

So true. I went to the hospital a few months ago for an abscess, and I only had to wait about 2 hours. It wasn't even that serious, but I didn't have to wait long. I stayed in overnight on IV antibiotics, and walked out the next morning with a $0 medical bill. Anyone who tries to say the American system is better is lying to themselves.

[tindallpe]

@autumnsylver 40 Million Americans have no insurance at all for a myriad of reasons.Some choose not to,others can't afford it,some have lost their job, others are denied because of preconditions, and virtually all insurance is capped with large deductibles that people have a very hard time paying for.When Mr. Stossel talks about innovation in Canada he makes it very clear he has no clue what he is talking about. All complex surgeries are available and accessible for everyone in Canada.

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - Your right.. it is around 40 Million. Oh.. but let's dig deeper shall we? 33% of that number are poorer individuals who qualify for medical assistance programs like Medicaid but don't take advantage of it. Another 20% is illegal immigrants, who I have no problem denying health insurance to. Oh.. an btw, that 40 Million number refers to anyone who went without insurance for part of the year. So anyone who changed jobs during the year is included in that list. Fact Check.

[tindallpe]

@broi07 Survival rate for these four disease conditions is higher in Canada than in America: o Colorectal cancer: 113 Canada vs. 108 U.S. o Childhood leukemia: 118 vs.110 o Kidney transplants 113 vs. 100 o Liver transplants 123 vs. 102 Our overall life expectancy is superior 82 to79 years

Here are some outcomes that are superior to yours in Canadian healthcare. Innovation in Canada is not restricted at all.Survival rates for certain cancers are marginal

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - I think you mistyped. Colon cancer MORTALITY rates are roughly 10% greater in Canada while prostate cancer mortality is a whopping 184% higher in Canada. This is all data collected from JCUSH.... where are you getting your data?

[tindallpe]

@broggi007 So when you check out that page you will see that, in fact,we are paying less for almost every item than the US.So your private system is actually"less "efficient" which even I find surprising.If we chose to add the additional 5 to 6% of per capita spending that marks your costs we would have Specialists twittling their thumbs waiting for patients.If we chose to allow for more private clinics at no cost to the taxpayer we could relieve even more pressure.Your problems are far greater

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - As to getting more specialist, because Canada has a great deal of GPs, I would say you'd have to increase reimbursements to a much higher level in order to entice specialists. However, the socialistic bureaucracy that plagues Canada's healthcare system can't afford to reimburse more. Canada does great in preventative medicine, but not so good in procedural medicine. The vise versa can be said about the US.

[broggi007]

@tindallpe - Far greater problem? Let's see.. all of our insured individuals and those that qualify for insurance but choose not to get it (excluding cost) equals 95% of the populous and they have quick access to medical procedures. Around 4% are uninsured due to cost. Under Canadian's health care, 100% are covered but everyone is subjected to the infamous wait times and those with means (the rich) can get quicker care. So in your health care system, a class system exists.

[broggi007]

@autumnsylver - I'm glad it wasn't anything serious... God forbid you had a blocked artery or something....

[autumnsylver]

@broggi007 If I had a blocked artery, I would have been rushed in right away for surgery if I needed it. You have a misinformed opinion of our health care system.

[broggi007]

@autumnsylver - See the woman in this video. Had a blocked artery and was considered elective.

[487shawn]

OMG!! what a crock of shit!! over thirty percent of all money in us spent goes to administrative cost of insurance companies!! the down side is extremely exagaerated, and there using gratzner a disgraced doctor who works for the manhattan project a right wing think tank funded by the kosh brothers, 23 hours is abosult bullshit!! if your sick enough to be in a hospital! shame! shame! i didn't know that abc was a division of fox news! were not perfect but this is a total exageration!!!!!

[tindallpe]

I'm speachless

[tindallpe]

@tindallpe You lying weasling peice of shit John Stossel or whatever your fucking name is.Are you so hellbent on supporting "Private Insurance " in the US that denies access to 1/6th your population causing over 50% of your bankruptcies ,charging huge deductables, denying coverage to people paying premiums, capping amounts paid and excluding peopple that you have to ly through your fucking teeth about the Canadian system tha has a 90% approval rating by the population.Shame on you

[TheRealAkaRai]

@tindallpe I think it's ironic you replied to yourself with the phrase "lying weasling piece of shit" except, you spelled piece wrong.

You say all this rambling bullshit about Stossel, but you provide all of jack and shit to refute it. All your screeching, all your childish insults amounts to nothing. If it's wrong, prove how. If you can't, then shut your stupid, uneducated, ignorant, hypocritical fucking mouth and don't ever embarrass yourself by opening it again.

[tindallpe]

@TheRealAkaRai Since most of my comments relate to your country I will assume you know they are facts, you ignorant backward insolent asshole. If YOU want to site statistics about how 50% of your bankruptcy rates are not due to trying to pay for healthcare and all the other ” facts” I quoted then refute them Otherwise shut you backward self serving shittrapp that is trying to support the worst system for the delivery of healthcare in the western world .

[tindallpe]

@ TheRealAkaRai ABC is already hurt fool. They are a fraction of the size and influence that they once were. So we have another "Mr. Spellcheck" with the intellectual substance of a "Common Field Mouse". You come out and say nothing in defense of your own bullshit system. If you don't like they way I started these comments ,suck it. At least state your case and try not to leave yourself exposed as a class "B" dribbling moron