@Artonauto "Please keep the discussion in airplanes and Luftwaffe.. All political shit will be removed." That is one of the best comments I've read on YouTube so far. Thanks for uploading this video. World War related stuff is always very interesting to watch.
the german equipment was (especially in the early years of ww2 ) certanly the best in entire history.but the tanks airplanes and guns of the americans and even more the soviets wasnt maybe not that specialised and hightec but especialy in the cold winter with deegrees -30 more reliable. i read that every german Tank was build with uniqe parts only made for the actuall version, the russians had only one tank modell wich made it much more easier for them to get quick supply of parts.
has anyone wonder if german would have won the war what kind of jet fighters would they have right now??? i doubt we will have the f-15 f-16 f-18 f-22 and all of the rest.
England declared war on Germany after Germany entered Poland. England then leaves Poland hanging in the dry to be occupied and raped by the Russians. How typical English, innit: scheming backstabbing island monkeys.
Love your Video, thank you for the uplod . I play IL2 Sturmovik a lot and i can only try to imagine how it was like for those guys to get up there and do their job. Much respect to all of those old ww2 airman on all sides of the war.
This vid demonstrates one of the biggest problems the German war machine had in the 30s and 40s. They could not keep it simple or streamlined. To many types and far to complicated in design for the times.
No, he is right with Goering... he was the chief of the Luftwaffe - even a lot of 'lethal' and very bad decisions Hitler made were influenced by Goering who always had to make some comments...
Like the one when it came about to withdraw from Stalingrad. Goering went to Hilter and promised him, that the Luftwaffe would be able to get enough food and material in the combat area. All others knew that it couldn't be done... but hey, Goering knew it better anyway.
In minute 1:36, you can really appreciate the forward visibility of these light bombers. It's probably a Hei111. As a pilot of small general aviation aircraft, I would love to have this kind of visibility. I mean..it's like you're hanging out there on the nose.
My father who passed away only last Friday. He was in Luftwaffe and served in WW2 as his father did WW1 for Germany... Actually worked for the Americans also. I am not exaggerating when I say this. When it comes to men, He was flawless. We don't make men like that anymore. He was ten times the man that I see society is producing today. He was hard as a rock!
I look around and because of him... I realise just how fucking soft they are.
To Artonauto: You can not say that Göering was a fat faggot, He also was an Ace during WWI and bravely fougth beside the Red Baron Manfred Von Richtoffen in the famous "Flying Circus". Disregarding the political issue, in military terms he deserves more respect.
I have done some snooping and found only 2 names that were not KIA with 67 kills from the western front...
I would love to get your Grandfather's autograph in a special book of mine. There is definetely room right next to Gunter Rall's signature!
I have worked for a man who had a fine reproduction of Spitfire V painting with 9 autoghraphs of famous Aces. He told me that no one can have that pic. even after his death!
What was his official score of confirmed kills? I am asking because there were more downed planes than could be confirmed, esspecially on the E. Front.
Rules for getting credit were inflexible and many went unrecorded. "Vatti" Moelders for example had a habit of showing to new pilots how to deal with Shturmowniks by jumping in the nearest fighter and ambushing some! None of those kills were recorded because he was ordered not to fly operationally.
I know, most of the German vets don't talk about that part of service. I am not surprised that you learnd of it second handed from Grandma. He must have had lots of respect with his superior because bucking the system was not permited then, and usually ended up with a 9mm hole in the scull.
What I would have done in his shoes, would be to fly to the other side and find a field somewhere in France plus, civilian clothing.
I am sure his CO understood their predicament but was bound by "Prussian" sense of duty to resist this common sense solution.
Have you read "Thunderbolt" by Robert S. Johnson? I highly recomend it. Ofcourse it is written "from the other side" but I admire Johnson for having the guts to actually write about what fighter pilot must do to stay alive and not sugar coat anything dealing with reality of war.
Thanks for the answers!! I am sure, if he had spent quality time in the eastern front he would have certainly score into the hundreds.
Western front was more unforgiving to the Germans and that releted to the lower tallies on their rudders. It took a lot of lead to bring down a Boeing and swarms of Mustangs, Thunderbolts and Lightnings did not help.
One more question: What was the story of his surrender? Did he fly to the Allies or went through ground assault?
What was his unit? Did he take part in the 39 September campaign? Who was he more aware of as a pilot (Brits, Poles, Russians or Americans)?
How many times did he had to walk home? What were his thought about Hartman or Barkhorn? What did he fly and which one did he prefer? How many kills did he score in single day and what were they? What mission was his favorite and least favorite? What was his first immpression of Me262?
Damm it Boy!! You are so lucky! I was born about 42 years too late to get in the middle of air combat! It is my passion! They don't make them like that anymore.
Do you mind if I pose some pointy questions to him through you?
Pump your grandfather of all you can learn from him!!!!!! There are very few of them left.
It was nothing unusual for any German pilot with say, 50 kils not to even consider himself anything special. They would usually say: "I flew with real Experten!"
Early on, Iron cross was isued for 20 victories. Then # moved up for it soon apeared that with 20 it would loose its special status.
There were literally hundreds of double digit "Aces" on German side.
I suggest reading this book if you want to know more about Rommel and Patton the tank commanders of their day. Also as a point of reference on what contributed to the losing steam of the German war machine. "Patton And Rommel: Men of War in the Twentieth Century"
The German war machine had several factors how it lost steam through the course of the war. 1 was the fact that the Germans never really worked together between other branches, like the Army with the Air-force. One tried to best the other, this is how Rommel lost the Africa campaign. At one meeting with hitler he tried to convey how important it is to have cooperation between branches. He stated that its very hard to push forward when shells being shot at you by planes the size of his fist.
I met a German fighter ace who downed 140 Allied aircraft. Think of it, over 140 young men who should have been going to high school dances, and instead they died from his gunshots.
World War 1 or 2? WW1 aces are Barron Manfred Von Richtofen the Red Barron and Oscar Bolke his mentor. WW2 fomous aces are Werner Molders and Adolf Garland. You know a funny thing I don't think any of them survived their wars.
Hartman, Galland, Rall and bunch of others survived on German side.
The best of Japanese: Saburo Sakai survived only because he had a bullet hole in his scull and was in the hospital before the order for all fliers made them go Kamikaze.
Goering was useful to Hitler because he was a popular WW1 hero who took over Jasta 2 after the death of Von Richtofen he lent creedence to Hitler and the Nazi's in the eyes of the post war Germans. When he spoke on Hitlers behalf, people listened.
he was very instrumental in making Hitler Popular from 1925 to 1933, otherwise he lived in ww1 and never accepted the modern style of warfare.
...you ask people to not make political statements, and then you say Goering is a ''fat faggot''. Isn't that political?...and besides, it makes you sound like you're about............11 years old.
Hey, It's Rudel! I don't like the fact that Goering was more decorated than Rudel. Did Goering destroy 500+ tanks, a battleship, 70 landing craft, and hundreds of ground targets? NO, HE DIDN'T. Goering doesn't deserve his medals.
Majority of pilots disliked Goring and no kidding. He should of been removed early on but he was a former buddy of Hitlers so. Also, miss-management on research lead to late arrival of the first fighter jet airplane the Messerschmitt Me 262 which saw action in 1944. When it was flying and working fine with jet engine in late of 1942. So because they put bombers ahead of fighter aircrafts they lost the aerial war because of it.
Goring was a fat pig, drug addict, mass murderer (he overlooked the construction of the concentration camps), and a pompous ass who designed his own uniforms while the rest of the Luffwaffe wore their regulation uniforms. The commanders of the Luffwaffe made fun of him behind his back, and one actually told him they would defeat the English if they had a squadron of Spitfires! (HA) thanks for not putting his pic in the video!
Adolf Gallad made the squadron of Spitfires comments. Galland definitely preferred the Me-109 to the Spitfire in Sept 1940 and also after he had personally flown one. He was emphasizing to Goering that it was a disadvantage to fly the Me-109 and use the tactics suited to the Spitfire in escort missions. When Galland and Moelders adopted hit-and-run tactics with the speedy Me-109s and avoid the turning dogfights where the Spitfire was superior their units did much better against the RAF fighters.
germany had some truly innovating pieces of equipment in ground forces and airforce mainly(kriegsmarine was kind of behind them in funds,research etc),but some of their designs were plain madness(like the Maus and especially the proposed,even bigger Ratt)
yes great in all, it's just ashame they were fighting for a very wrong cause, either way i'm sure the individual fought for the same thing their enemy fought
When it comes to aircraft, the Luffwaffe demonstrated how creative humans can be when the pressure's on. And despite having an idiot like Goring at the helm.
dustz33, do you know what you're talking about? Germans didn't know about the Holocaust? Many did but denied its existence. Buchenwald is a stone throw away from Weimar and the fact that jewish neighbours were suddenly disappearing... Thr Germans knew about the disabled being murdered but raised objections and soon stopped shortly before the war. Many Germans knew what was going on.
Si señor me gusta...en ESPAÑA estamos hasta las mismísimas narices de la inmigracion y de la destrucción q están causando en la cultura la inundación de EXTRANJEROS q diariamente están entrando en EUROPA a trabes de ESPAÑA, necesitamos ya un resurgimiento de la vieja EUROPA...
Correct me if I am wrong: Time segment 1:55, isn't that an He-177 tail I see? As well as one on the apron? Can't get a good look at the one burning, but safe money says it is also He-177.
it's scary how advanced german tech was becoming. thankfully they didn't hit the atom bomb in time or you'd have atomic V2s (probably call 'em V3s) flying left , right and center
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Very true. However had Hitler wanted to continue to build it, it would have been completed by mid 1939. Albert Einstein even wrote a letter to President Roosevelt stating that.
yeah, unfortuantly for the Nazis, Hitler was never truly interested in the concept of the atom bomb. However, he was very intrigued with 'dirty' bombs, which would have been simpler to make and be just as bad.
it`s very good indeed neither the US nor Germany had nuclear weapons ready bevor Germany`s surrender. It would have cost a huge amount of casualties in both great britain, germany and if the v3 would have been ready(i believe it was supposed to be called america rocket or so) also in the US.
Not even a maelstrom of me262's (and i love that plane) would have changed the outcome of the war. the fight for freedom would have eventually prevailed.
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America, Britain and Russia WERE NOT fighting for freedom. They were fighting for their own point of view. Germany never endangered anybody's freedom during WWII and if you read ALL points, you'll find that many, MANY people saw the German soldier as a liberator, not the oppressor as American and British propaganda pushes all the time.
The French, Belgians, Dutch, Polish & Greeks would beg to differ to what you just stated. No disrespect, but unless you're from Europe, you wouldn't understand the dislike towards Germany.
Well I from Europe, and there's only a minority of people that I've come across in numerous countries in Europe that like Germans, and Germany.
I've been to Greece, Spain, France, Malta, Holland, Italy, Austria and The Czech Republic; undoubtedly everyone I have spoken to in museums and bars have spoken about Germany at some point, and mentioned their dislike towards the country.
My family is from Czech republic and my grandparents were there for the war, They loved the Germans. It was the Russians they hated cause they were aloud to rape and pillage for 2 weeks when they came in. The Germans brought food and chased communism out.
Well the average german soldier wasn`t a bad person. Most of them were even opposed to the war and the german public didn`t know about the holocaust. The SS and NSDAP Members (about 1% of the population) were the only really evil people. The average german had the choice between communism and a party that promised change, political and economical strength as well as expansion without war (czech rebulic was handed over, france basically to). They had no idea about the holocaust.
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Oh yeah, a few thousand Poles make the European general view point. Poland absolutely represents every single nation in Europe. You fucking jackass, you're the typical cheap beer drinking weekend "historian" that knows it all. You're the exception for mercy killings.
Churchill said"they have sown the wind, now they shall reap the whirlwind"... and how! the He280 and the Me 262 could have been in production in late 43. Now that would have made a BIG difference
Hitler was lied to and told they were doing fine by his military advisers. So he said he wanted jet bombers when it was already to late for that, If he said build more jet fighters I think things might have been different. He had super smart people working for him it was unreal how far ahead of the times they were, Military wise.
No surprise here, Germany sent a bomber non stop to within 20 miles of New York city and back to Germany in March 1945 just 2 MONTHS before the war ended for them
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That's badass gypsyfae, I didn't know that they actually made the flight. I've heard they COULD have, but didn't know they did it. Can you tell me which aircraft they used?
Germans had designed the first air to ground missile and it was ready for production! Unfortunately they lost time testing UFO-like prototypes for interceptors
Both sides did shit with their airforces mainly because strategic bombing wasnt invented. it wasminly drop shits of bombs on cities. both sides did that (germany in london) and allies over germany.
If you do not know much history, you remember all this technology that boast usurpers Americans and the English supporters were not there but because of the lateness was that the Luftwaffe.
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If you're referring to the line up picture of several planes - they resemble FW's - the cowling is a bit off, but the landing gear are dead on...the pic that follows looks like an Arado variant
BF109 e,f and G are pictured as the stuka ju88 condor long range bomber...163 comet, 262, bf110's, he162, ar234, Do335, he280,fw190 a8-s he12, and many experimental A/C that never made it oof the drwaing board... Eric hartman 352 kills and Gerhard Barkhorn with 301 kills were the 2 top most ace...the second one in the vid almost looks like nowotny the 1st is def hartman
2:32 def not 190s... I dont know what they are though. The ones before are... But they do look similar! They have inline engines and the tail and canopy are totaly different!
SRTST51 is absolutely right, they are he 100's. i had to do a little research but i did find them. they are a prewar design whose performance wasn't up to speed with the me-109 and later designs and as such weren't produced in great numbers(only 100 examples i believe).
A PhD holder Danny? Riiiiigggghhht... Just like I'm Neil Armstrong. Unless you mean "PhD" as the acronym: "Pretending to hold Degree." You can't even spell or use grammar well enough to pass a remedial college course. Your anger over something this silly speaks for itself, but you've just made me lol hard. Please link us to some sort of essay you've written for work, or tell us what university you teach at. What have you done to contribute to "academia"? Anything? Nothing? :/
Ahh... I have yet to see anyone defending Udet, Kesslering, Rundstedt, Paulus, or even Rommel. So what? All flawed men, all made mistakes in their field of work. So did Monty, Eisenhower, Patton, and Bradley. And dare I say Dowding? :D People just really hate Göring and Hitler, so they get more blame. "I didnt want to show Görings face on this because he was a fat faggot." Well said! :D HAHA!
Actually Dannyboy, we both find you funny. Give yourself a rest, lol. Not very impressive when someone spits out quotes and stats from widely published and available books and info. No offense, but high school students are fully capable of doing and saying everything you have. Then savage says: "...and lose a war by dumb decisions and leaders." You reply with: "...it was flawed from strategic-operational-tactical levels." Same thing, different rhetoric. Just give it up...
The Luftwaffe was a flawed air force from top to bottom: suggested reading, Cladwell and Muller's "Defence of the Reich" - the raining system was not a thorough as ignorant people seem to believe. So it is not just a case of bad "leaders" it was flawed from strategic-operational-tactical levels. Which is why it failed or suffered heavy losses when pitted against even half-competent opponents.
Indeed. But the RAF, USAAF etc were just as bad in the early period. Whereas the Allies learned from their mistakes, the Germans did not. I agree, people blame Goring and Hitler, but Kesselring and Udet etc heavily influenced Goring. It was a collective "effort".
yea your right, germany based their air force around tactical aircraft when the RAF and the USAAF centered around aircraft with heavy long distance bombing beacause they believed that a war could be won with one swoop of their aircraft. WHile germany did not have the technology available to manufacture engines with the capability of flying heavy airplanes long distance due to the shortage of time they had to invent an engine of than magnitude. because their aviation branch of the military had
For what it's worth: An academic is a person who works as a researcher (and usually teacher) at a university, college, or similar institution in post-secondary (tertiary) education. He or she is nearly always an advanced degree holder. (Per Wikipedia) So no, Danny is not an academic. My father is a history professor. He will get a kick out of this. Savage, you are an asshole, and Danny is a wanna-be. --Ende
DB777777 - that was harsh. Who cares if he doesn't believe you! You know you are so f**k 'em! You walked into that one defacto - think before you speak and be sure not to make assumptions!
Lol, and sorry, but I can't believe you've taken this seriously. It's youtube, lol. A real "academic" wouldn't have even fell for it. If he was legit, he'd be doing something like publishing a journal to educate others. Not cursing and writhing with every prod on here, lol. Just another case of someone who wants self-assurance over the internet. Real life hasn't given them any. Just look at the emotional investment exposed, haha! Worthy of Broadway. And to be fair, yes I was "trolling" ;)
How do you know he isn't? A lack of any response may mean the guy is busy doing just that. What I saw was someone pissed off by "outlandish" claims. Anywho, I'm done here I think.
Yes, the 109 was a superb BnZ fighter. But a 190 trying to turn'n burn with a SpitIX or P51 is dead meat (usually). That's the classical idea of a "dogfight" (a vague term). 190s weren't supposed to TnB. They were fast, powerful hunters who were supposed to nail the enemy, speed away, come back, and do it again.
1 last note re: the stats etc, most of it depended on the pilot not the aircraft. I read a translated version of Gunther Rall's My Flying Book, he said from the BoB to the end of the war, the RAF pilots were the equal of the German. He mentions the Americans were good too, but they came over in "such numbers there was little time to engage in 'sporting' contests as with the RAF". Over and Out.
On a more serious note, you're absolutely correct. Pilots make all the difference. Air combat is such a complex matter, that not even a huge book can cover every worthy aspect of it. No one plane is better than another. It's never black and white. Each are an integral part of an airforce, working towards a common goal. You can have great planes and pilots and lose a war by dumb decisions and leaders. Case and point, the Germans in WWII...
And please, what questions? I will answer them all honestly. I admit I've been bullshitting with him; that he was right about. I love the 190, but yes, it had plenty problems. But it was a great aircraft. Problem is, people like to compare it in "dogfighting" terms. A 190 pilot who dogfights is nuts. They aren't dogfighters. They're made for hit'n run, boom n' zoom fighting. A style similar to what our F4Fs used against A6Ms.
Erm, sorry to disagree. But the Bf 109 was the boom and zoom, it was the 190 that was a dogfighter it was designed for medium-low altitude fighting. Its why the Fw 190s performance fell off massively aove 20-21,000ft - the fundamental reason the Bf 109 was kept in production -its higher performance above 20,000. Both the Spitfire/109/190 and P-51 had all reached the end of their development life by 1945.
This extends far beyond myself ever posting. Yes, I did anticipate this response. People just want to enjoy history and videos like this, but people have to come preaching their nationalist BS. One idiot was even preaching Nazi ideology. Really is sickening. Youtube, with its small space constraints, isn't a place for any real debate either. Just a short slice of humor. And what humor it has been.
I have seen any "nationalist BS". I havn't seen him claim the UK won it alone. You admit pressing his buttons for a bit of fun without engaging in proper debate. Wouldn't this make you a troll? As you once accussed him of being? He hasn't pressed your buttons (only when attacked). He has done more than you to engage in proper debate -even if is an arrogant know it all -academics usually are. Which is why I believe he is!
Having followed through the posts it seems that Savagelife714 is the one in the wrong. The guy is a childish idiot. I find this nonsense about "Yeah sure come over" silly - it sounds like something a child would say. Iit is quite obvious you are the fanboy. You're just copying what DannyBoy said earlier-get your own line kid.BTW, I can count at least 7 questions +points you have failed to answer after being completely flattened. I'm a Luftwaffe enthusiast- but you are an agenda driven extremist.
LOL! I admit, I've intentionally pushed the guys buttons, because of his arrogant demeanor and condescending attitude towards everyone he's replied to. It's funny because now he's contradicted himself several times. And no, a child would want to curse people out and "fight". "come on over and fight" would have been the ticket. I still offer him a trip to an airshow, all on me. But the expense becomes his when he realizes I was dead serious about being a pilot. Offer pending...
If you "press his buttons" you can expect such a response. I can't find any. There is absolutely no change in his stance at all. You still are not answering his questions -despite claiming he only asked a couple! It seems he has a level of understanding in military affairs I have yet to see from you. You come off like a jerk. "Everyone he's replied to" - he has only replied to you - now who's contradicting themselves? Are are you being economical with the truth to cover your own poor judgement?
Still no email from you, FannyBoii66666? What's the matter? I'm still eagerly awaiting contact. Lol, and this is classic, "...they were modified to demonstrate the feebleness of your position." Setting up a straw man here, are we? Yeah, look it up. Please educate yourself about debate tactics. Too bad you aren't on trial in court. You'd have already been hung...
You have only asked one or two questions tops. One of which was "what's all that crap about?" when I prodded your insecurities by mocking your mythological beliefs about the Spitfire. I've skimmed backwards through your posts and can not find any other questions. If I've overlooked them, please point me to it. It would be a pleasure...
Your ridiculous posturing is getting you nowhere. Re-read the posts. You hav'nt answered any the retorts or questions put to about your absurd assertions. Each one swiftly crushed - about training being superior, the alleged superiority of German pistion-engined fighters (by far the funniest) etc. And boy, I don't have any insecurities, I'm educated in military history. You are the one screaming "Propaganda"! As revisionist always do. You still havn't answered the question about wikipedia. LOL
You have only to look up the performance data, pal. Do a side by side of the Fw190D, P51D, and SpitIX. Do other planes too. Generally, German planes are better in a head to head, 1v1 comparison. So what made the difference? German planes were too expensive and complex. Sometimes impractically so. The Allies were far economically and industrially superior as well. 1000 good planes > 100 excellent ones.
Sorry this isn't true either. I think you are making this stuff up. Either that or your information is poor. I'm not a P-51 or Spit fan, but the D and late mark Griffon and Merlin variants were the best all round performers in combat. The Fw 190D was inferior to even the P-47 in most respects - even the few fitted with the WM50 supercharger. Though I will defend the Fw 190D to my dyng breath, despite its shortcommings!
Oh, and Jotunspor: Cheerleader tryouts aren't being held here. Just google websites for British Ultra-Nats or RAF/BoB Mythologists. I'm sure they can point you in the right direction...
Tell me something, are you the same savagelife714 that got taken apart on the wikipeda Battle of Britain site? By people that were not even British? They tore you apart. You failed to answer any of their questions, and ended up rambling for pages. One guy said that was the difference between the revisionist world and the real one: short and sweet vs rambling moron. LOL You know nothing!!! Stick to building your airfix aircraft in your moms basement rookie.
Lol. You're such a liar. You say "I wouldn't dream of quoting you", but you've done it on several occasions (however distorted). But, rattlesnakes actually are quite trustworthy. They only strike if bothered, and they give fair warning first. They also make their own living, and don't leech off of others (like you off the honest taxpayers). So, rattlers are some good ol' snakes! Plus a German rattlesnake killed 200 SpitIXs in one sortie!!! Ha! Take that! ;) LOL!
No. They were not direct quotes they were modified to demonstrate the feebleness of your position. Its funny you don't answer questions posted to you. You can't, because your an air head trying to look like you know what your taking about.
No, if I wanted to copy your "style" I'd begin every post with "Rubbish!" Then I'd seethe with anger and resentment, and include nonsense and profanity in every sentence. Then I'd try to use insults and pitiful attempts at belittling others to take the focus off of my own lack of knowledge. Then when someone countered me, I'd distort their true position to fit my own misguided argument. Oh, and falsely glorify myself as an "academic" when I can't handle the English language alone. That's you..
Btw, positive dihedral is when the wings or tail plane of an aircraft angle upwards. Negative dihedral or "anhedral" means angled downwards. Most WWII era planes had + dihedral. Now we have many modern fighters with anhedral and even polyhedral wings/tails. There are even aircraft with variable geometry, VTOL capability, inverted wing sweep. There are all sorts of designs. Knowing what dihedral means is rather trivial, and sorry, it doesn't make you an "academic". This is priceless...
Wow. So you're telling me if the Axis had (hypothetically) conquered all of the Eurasian landmass, and the continent of Africa, they would not have been able to launch a joint-invasion of the US? Pfff.. Give a peasant boy that amount of power and resources and he'll invade Mars. "Academic" my ass HAHA! Why would I not give you my email? Are you really that scared? Check your private messages, "buddy".
Sunny, academics don't deal in alternative reality. It would not have happened. German apologists always blame Hitler and Goring for everything. The problem with that is it absolves the German OKW and its Generals (particularly Guderian) from making some of the worst decisions in history. But even if they had, the Germans did not understand that to achieve their aims they needed powerful Allies. They did not have the manpower to do it alone. But the German way in war doesn't do strategy.
And Arto, great vid and thanks for sharing this! I do apologize though; I probably shouldn't have fed the trolls. But there's always got to be some fantasy-living RAF worshipers trying to ruin a cool video about Luftwaffe planes. Some folks can't appreciate anything not made by their "empire", I suppose. (P.S.- Good call on omitting Göring! LOL!)
Go Germany!
SPARTAN9999999991 4 months ago
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@Artonauto "Please keep the discussion in airplanes and Luftwaffe.. All political shit will be removed." That is one of the best comments I've read on YouTube so far. Thanks for uploading this video. World War related stuff is always very interesting to watch.
vanessamcqueen11 6 months ago
A real case of lions led by donkeys.
mitsubishi109 8 months ago 5
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so i think that the german squareheads (fortunately) lost ww2 because of their overstating.
Ashesmoney 8 months ago
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Ashesmoney 8 months ago
the german equipment was (especially in the early years of ww2 ) certanly the best in entire history.but the tanks airplanes and guns of the americans and even more the soviets wasnt maybe not that specialised and hightec but especialy in the cold winter with deegrees -30 more reliable. i read that every german Tank was build with uniqe parts only made for the actuall version, the russians had only one tank modell wich made it much more easier for them to get quick supply of parts.
Ashesmoney 8 months ago
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Ashesmoney 8 months ago
Yes, some of these airplanes reflect Göring's image - fat and chubby!
KomradeMuse 9 months ago
has anyone wonder if german would have won the war what kind of jet fighters would they have right now??? i doubt we will have the f-15 f-16 f-18 f-22 and all of the rest.
MegaGuitar87 9 months ago
England declared war on Germany after Germany entered Poland. England then leaves Poland hanging in the dry to be occupied and raped by the Russians. How typical English, innit: scheming backstabbing island monkeys.
MrFrenchie36 10 months ago
Love your Video, thank you for the uplod . I play IL2 Sturmovik a lot and i can only try to imagine how it was like for those guys to get up there and do their job. Much respect to all of those old ww2 airman on all sides of the war.
Unnsteinsson 10 months ago
This vid demonstrates one of the biggest problems the German war machine had in the 30s and 40s. They could not keep it simple or streamlined. To many types and far to complicated in design for the times.
tina6581 10 months ago
@megadog200
No, he is right with Goering... he was the chief of the Luftwaffe - even a lot of 'lethal' and very bad decisions Hitler made were influenced by Goering who always had to make some comments...
Like the one when it came about to withdraw from Stalingrad. Goering went to Hilter and promised him, that the Luftwaffe would be able to get enough food and material in the combat area. All others knew that it couldn't be done... but hey, Goering knew it better anyway.
Good vid.
Vickzq 1 year ago
In minute 1:36, you can really appreciate the forward visibility of these light bombers. It's probably a Hei111. As a pilot of small general aviation aircraft, I would love to have this kind of visibility. I mean..it's like you're hanging out there on the nose.
Brilliant..and aerodynamic too!
hecmireles 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
RIP HEINZ HERMANN EUGENE LANGER 1924-2010
My father who passed away only last Friday. He was in Luftwaffe and served in WW2 as his father did WW1 for Germany... Actually worked for the Americans also. I am not exaggerating when I say this. When it comes to men, He was flawless. We don't make men like that anymore. He was ten times the man that I see society is producing today. He was hard as a rock!
I look around and because of him... I realise just how fucking soft they are.
German Pride!
Antonemachine 1 year ago
those planes look like C205's
icedragon642 1 year ago
how young were those lads war kills our youth off thats for sure
eatbullets666 1 year ago
Iv'e got this song
MrWhatever45 1 year ago
To Artonauto: You can not say that Göering was a fat faggot, He also was an Ace during WWI and bravely fougth beside the Red Baron Manfred Von Richtoffen in the famous "Flying Circus". Disregarding the political issue, in military terms he deserves more respect.
m070782 1 year ago 2
@TheMaxwell777
Is your Grandfather's first name Karl or Herbert?
I have done some snooping and found only 2 names that were not KIA with 67 kills from the western front...
I would love to get your Grandfather's autograph in a special book of mine. There is definetely room right next to Gunter Rall's signature!
I have worked for a man who had a fine reproduction of Spitfire V painting with 9 autoghraphs of famous Aces. He told me that no one can have that pic. even after his death!
hetmanbasza 1 year ago
@TheMaxwell777
What was his official score of confirmed kills? I am asking because there were more downed planes than could be confirmed, esspecially on the E. Front.
Rules for getting credit were inflexible and many went unrecorded. "Vatti" Moelders for example had a habit of showing to new pilots how to deal with Shturmowniks by jumping in the nearest fighter and ambushing some! None of those kills were recorded because he was ordered not to fly operationally.
hetmanbasza 1 year ago
@TheMaxwell777
I know, most of the German vets don't talk about that part of service. I am not surprised that you learnd of it second handed from Grandma. He must have had lots of respect with his superior because bucking the system was not permited then, and usually ended up with a 9mm hole in the scull.
What I would have done in his shoes, would be to fly to the other side and find a field somewhere in France plus, civilian clothing.
hetmanbasza 1 year ago
@hetmanbasza
I am sure his CO understood their predicament but was bound by "Prussian" sense of duty to resist this common sense solution.
Have you read "Thunderbolt" by Robert S. Johnson? I highly recomend it. Ofcourse it is written "from the other side" but I admire Johnson for having the guts to actually write about what fighter pilot must do to stay alive and not sugar coat anything dealing with reality of war.
hetmanbasza 1 year ago
@TheMaxwell777
Thanks for the answers!! I am sure, if he had spent quality time in the eastern front he would have certainly score into the hundreds.
Western front was more unforgiving to the Germans and that releted to the lower tallies on their rudders. It took a lot of lead to bring down a Boeing and swarms of Mustangs, Thunderbolts and Lightnings did not help.
One more question: What was the story of his surrender? Did he fly to the Allies or went through ground assault?
hetmanbasza 1 year ago
@TheMaxwell777
Prefect!
What was his unit? Did he take part in the 39 September campaign? Who was he more aware of as a pilot (Brits, Poles, Russians or Americans)?
How many times did he had to walk home? What were his thought about Hartman or Barkhorn? What did he fly and which one did he prefer? How many kills did he score in single day and what were they? What mission was his favorite and least favorite? What was his first immpression of Me262?
Thanks!!
hetmanbasza 1 year ago
@TheMaxwell777
Damm it Boy!! You are so lucky! I was born about 42 years too late to get in the middle of air combat! It is my passion! They don't make them like that anymore.
Do you mind if I pose some pointy questions to him through you?
hetmanbasza 1 year ago
@TheMaxwell777
Pump your grandfather of all you can learn from him!!!!!! There are very few of them left.
It was nothing unusual for any German pilot with say, 50 kils not to even consider himself anything special. They would usually say: "I flew with real Experten!"
Early on, Iron cross was isued for 20 victories. Then # moved up for it soon apeared that with 20 it would loose its special status.
There were literally hundreds of double digit "Aces" on German side.
hetmanbasza 1 year ago
Kauniita ja tehokkaita olivat. Mutta valitettavasti liian vähän ja liaan myöhään tuli suihkukoneet.
urporuuna 1 year ago
I suggest reading this book if you want to know more about Rommel and Patton the tank commanders of their day. Also as a point of reference on what contributed to the losing steam of the German war machine. "Patton And Rommel: Men of War in the Twentieth Century"
Thereisalwaysmore 1 year ago
The German war machine had several factors how it lost steam through the course of the war. 1 was the fact that the Germans never really worked together between other branches, like the Army with the Air-force. One tried to best the other, this is how Rommel lost the Africa campaign. At one meeting with hitler he tried to convey how important it is to have cooperation between branches. He stated that its very hard to push forward when shells being shot at you by planes the size of his fist.
Thereisalwaysmore 1 year ago
I met a German fighter ace who downed 140 Allied aircraft. Think of it, over 140 young men who should have been going to high school dances, and instead they died from his gunshots.
mmcceng77 1 year ago
World War 1 or 2? WW1 aces are Barron Manfred Von Richtofen the Red Barron and Oscar Bolke his mentor. WW2 fomous aces are Werner Molders and Adolf Garland. You know a funny thing I don't think any of them survived their wars.
CaptainCook1778 1 year ago
@CaptainCook1778 ....it's Oswald Boelke,..and ''Galland'', not Garland. Galland did survive.
midnitemover123 1 year ago
@CaptainCook1778
Hartman, Galland, Rall and bunch of others survived on German side.
The best of Japanese: Saburo Sakai survived only because he had a bullet hole in his scull and was in the hospital before the order for all fliers made them go Kamikaze.
hetmanbasza 1 year ago
Goering was useful to Hitler because he was a popular WW1 hero who took over Jasta 2 after the death of Von Richtofen he lent creedence to Hitler and the Nazi's in the eyes of the post war Germans. When he spoke on Hitlers behalf, people listened.
he was very instrumental in making Hitler Popular from 1925 to 1933, otherwise he lived in ww1 and never accepted the modern style of warfare.
Marauder0090 1 year ago
Brilliant, thanks for uploading
Plawranc 1 year ago
...you ask people to not make political statements, and then you say Goering is a ''fat faggot''. Isn't that political?...and besides, it makes you sound like you're about............11 years old.
midnitemover123 1 year ago
Very good.If Molders never died maybe Luftwaffe never loosing.Because you said about Gering....
16GsiV 1 year ago
Ничаго, почти всех их упокоили, к счастью
physicoid 1 year ago
М О Л О Д Ц Ы ! ! !
vanyahacker 1 year ago
Hey, It's Rudel! I don't like the fact that Goering was more decorated than Rudel. Did Goering destroy 500+ tanks, a battleship, 70 landing craft, and hundreds of ground targets? NO, HE DIDN'T. Goering doesn't deserve his medals.
agouti6 2 years ago
Goerings decoration amount was probably the only thing keeping most luftwaffe pilots from getting their own decorations.
I bet Goering could not stand if some1 had more medals.
Goering was only a partyboss.
Maverick110290 1 year ago
Goering was decorated in ww1 as well. Silly argument. Yes Rudel was the greatest of all time in all the world and he has the highest honor and medal.
Heil Hitler
testomatic12345 1 year ago 2
Love the music! BFB was a great movie.
ColbertNation88 2 years ago
Majority of pilots disliked Goring and no kidding. He should of been removed early on but he was a former buddy of Hitlers so. Also, miss-management on research lead to late arrival of the first fighter jet airplane the Messerschmitt Me 262 which saw action in 1944. When it was flying and working fine with jet engine in late of 1942. So because they put bombers ahead of fighter aircrafts they lost the aerial war because of it.
DoResearchFirst 2 years ago
Goring was also a fighter ace during World War One. Nothing to sneeze at.
allgoraro 2 years ago 5
Goring was a fat pig, drug addict, mass murderer (he overlooked the construction of the concentration camps), and a pompous ass who designed his own uniforms while the rest of the Luffwaffe wore their regulation uniforms. The commanders of the Luffwaffe made fun of him behind his back, and one actually told him they would defeat the English if they had a squadron of Spitfires! (HA) thanks for not putting his pic in the video!
trollwt 2 years ago 3
Adolf Gallad made the squadron of Spitfires comments. Galland definitely preferred the Me-109 to the Spitfire in Sept 1940 and also after he had personally flown one. He was emphasizing to Goering that it was a disadvantage to fly the Me-109 and use the tactics suited to the Spitfire in escort missions. When Galland and Moelders adopted hit-and-run tactics with the speedy Me-109s and avoid the turning dogfights where the Spitfire was superior their units did much better against the RAF fighters.
fw190bk1 2 years ago 4
germany had some truly innovating pieces of equipment in ground forces and airforce mainly(kriegsmarine was kind of behind them in funds,research etc),but some of their designs were plain madness(like the Maus and especially the proposed,even bigger Ratt)
saltymaul 2 years ago
yes great in all, it's just ashame they were fighting for a very wrong cause, either way i'm sure the individual fought for the same thing their enemy fought
Pinesol23 2 years ago
luftwaffe, good example of how crap leadership can cripple an awesome force
chedwiggins 2 years ago 9
So true!
GerbilEssences 2 years ago
Great video.
VipTheScar 2 years ago 3
Gr8t video..........Germans r very brave
sajib9 2 years ago 8
When it comes to aircraft, the Luffwaffe demonstrated how creative humans can be when the pressure's on. And despite having an idiot like Goring at the helm.
TheKulu42 2 years ago 37
@TheKulu42 not Goring but Hitler.
megadog200 1 year ago
great music , good footage, thanks 4 posting this , Wunderbar.............
oppenheimer445 2 years ago 5
I think on 3:39, that is german space-fantasy
BerndenLivien 2 years ago
dustz33, do you know what you're talking about? Germans didn't know about the Holocaust? Many did but denied its existence. Buchenwald is a stone throw away from Weimar and the fact that jewish neighbours were suddenly disappearing... Thr Germans knew about the disabled being murdered but raised objections and soon stopped shortly before the war. Many Germans knew what was going on.
wellardme 2 years ago
Bollocks...........!!!!!!!!
terryjohn 2 years ago
cute music
CCCPconscriptcod4 2 years ago
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Communism is cute...
Maverick110290 2 years ago
Please keep the discussion in airplanes and Luftwaffe.. All political shit will be removed.
Artonauto 2 years ago 27
then remove them above WALLARDME
terryjohn 2 years ago
@Artonauto
Yes. Keep off these political shit!
Blithe168 1 year ago
Meine liebe eagls
SuperMchk 2 years ago
saraevskiy Красная сволочь
smerch 2 years ago
Фашистские ублюдки!
saraevskiy 2 years ago
Indeed.
And they lost and now we are doomed!!
Millions of Non-europeans are flooding into Europe and destroying our sacred land...
Damn the Americans and their Jew President Roosevelt..
Possesed88 2 years ago
the hells ur problem
s90Jimmys90 2 years ago
Si señor me gusta...en ESPAÑA estamos hasta las mismísimas narices de la inmigracion y de la destrucción q están causando en la cultura la inundación de EXTRANJEROS q diariamente están entrando en EUROPA a trabes de ESPAÑA, necesitamos ya un resurgimiento de la vieja EUROPA...
lothar29 2 years ago 4
Correct me if I am wrong: Time segment 1:55, isn't that an He-177 tail I see? As well as one on the apron? Can't get a good look at the one burning, but safe money says it is also He-177.
Lorkiff 2 years ago
I think so since the next picture is of a He-177.
Forrestman69 2 years ago
The plane at 2:32 is Heinkel 112!!!it was operational??????
Trabakoulas 2 years ago
it's scary how advanced german tech was becoming. thankfully they didn't hit the atom bomb in time or you'd have atomic V2s (probably call 'em V3s) flying left , right and center
melonacolypse 2 years ago
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Germany had atomic energy 1938. They could have produced the A-bomb at that time.Nuclear Fission was discovered by Otto Hahn in 38'.
SSWolf80 2 years ago
ah but to harness it as a weapon is an entirely different matter :)
and correction with my comment, looks like there actually was a V3 : P
fun fact
melonacolypse 2 years ago
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Very true. However had Hitler wanted to continue to build it, it would have been completed by mid 1939. Albert Einstein even wrote a letter to President Roosevelt stating that.
SSWolf80 2 years ago
yeah, unfortuantly for the Nazis, Hitler was never truly interested in the concept of the atom bomb. However, he was very intrigued with 'dirty' bombs, which would have been simpler to make and be just as bad.
melonacolypse 2 years ago
it`s very good indeed neither the US nor Germany had nuclear weapons ready bevor Germany`s surrender. It would have cost a huge amount of casualties in both great britain, germany and if the v3 would have been ready(i believe it was supposed to be called america rocket or so) also in the US.
dustz33 2 years ago
Not even a maelstrom of me262's (and i love that plane) would have changed the outcome of the war. the fight for freedom would have eventually prevailed.
girlishfun 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
America, Britain and Russia WERE NOT fighting for freedom. They were fighting for their own point of view. Germany never endangered anybody's freedom during WWII and if you read ALL points, you'll find that many, MANY people saw the German soldier as a liberator, not the oppressor as American and British propaganda pushes all the time.
SSWolf80 2 years ago
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britain decleared war, after poland was invaded.
+ended the war with poland occupied by russia. hmmmmm
infernalzen 2 years ago 23
@infernalzen british hipocrisy is famous
walkurtube 1 year ago
@walkurtube
probably that ussr was too strong for the west to argue with.
infernalzen 1 year ago
@infernalzen Stallin wanted space . ! Hitler wanted land !
jrobertsoneff 1 year ago
The French, Belgians, Dutch, Polish & Greeks would beg to differ to what you just stated. No disrespect, but unless you're from Europe, you wouldn't understand the dislike towards Germany.
mrrmancunian 2 years ago 10
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Unless you're from there as well, you wouldn't understand the love either.
SSWolf80 2 years ago
Well I from Europe, and there's only a minority of people that I've come across in numerous countries in Europe that like Germans, and Germany.
I've been to Greece, Spain, France, Malta, Holland, Italy, Austria and The Czech Republic; undoubtedly everyone I have spoken to in museums and bars have spoken about Germany at some point, and mentioned their dislike towards the country.
mrrmancunian 2 years ago 9
My family is from Czech republic and my grandparents were there for the war, They loved the Germans. It was the Russians they hated cause they were aloud to rape and pillage for 2 weeks when they came in. The Germans brought food and chased communism out.
BigDestructor 2 years ago 4
Well the average german soldier wasn`t a bad person. Most of them were even opposed to the war and the german public didn`t know about the holocaust. The SS and NSDAP Members (about 1% of the population) were the only really evil people. The average german had the choice between communism and a party that promised change, political and economical strength as well as expansion without war (czech rebulic was handed over, france basically to). They had no idea about the holocaust.
dustz33 2 years ago 2
Tell that to the Poles you dumb fuck!
Smoshy16 2 years ago 9
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Oh yeah, a few thousand Poles make the European general view point. Poland absolutely represents every single nation in Europe. You fucking jackass, you're the typical cheap beer drinking weekend "historian" that knows it all. You're the exception for mercy killings.
SSWolf80 2 years ago
Churchill said"they have sown the wind, now they shall reap the whirlwind"... and how! the He280 and the Me 262 could have been in production in late 43. Now that would have made a BIG difference
zempke 2 years ago 6
Ernst Heinkel was the genuis but never got the credit he deserved.
BeetleBerlin 2 years ago
If Germany had just started their jets a little earlier I'm sure the world would have turned out a lot differently.
gypsyfae1 2 years ago
Hitler was lied to and told they were doing fine by his military advisers. So he said he wanted jet bombers when it was already to late for that, If he said build more jet fighters I think things might have been different. He had super smart people working for him it was unreal how far ahead of the times they were, Military wise.
BigDestructor 2 years ago
No surprise here, Germany sent a bomber non stop to within 20 miles of New York city and back to Germany in March 1945 just 2 MONTHS before the war ended for them
gypsyfae1 2 years ago
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That's badass gypsyfae, I didn't know that they actually made the flight. I've heard they COULD have, but didn't know they did it. Can you tell me which aircraft they used?
SSWolf80 2 years ago
I Love Luftwaffe!!
mondschein306 2 years ago 3
congratulations heil siegel forever !!!!
OPTIMUSVIVE 2 years ago
Mudak
SashaVedernikov 2 years ago
Germans had designed the first air to ground missile and it was ready for production! Unfortunately they lost time testing UFO-like prototypes for interceptors
JohnEngineerisback 2 years ago
The Me-262 is the best invention!
juenbaza 2 years ago
Absolutely perfect, i believe that Luftwaffe was the air force most greatest in the history of the century XX
dagar09 2 years ago
Especially when bombing innocent civilians, or shooting woman and children in refugee convoys. Very brave, very gallant
judgedredd123 2 years ago
Both sides did shit with their airforces mainly because strategic bombing wasnt invented. it wasminly drop shits of bombs on cities. both sides did that (germany in london) and allies over germany.
USMCsburns 2 years ago
Without sounding like a two year old, it was the Luftwaffe that started it, the allies acted in retaliation
judgedredd123 2 years ago
Maybe after the RAF and the US Air Force (US Army Air Force)
tokayev 2 years ago
If you do not know much history, you remember all this technology that boast usurpers Americans and the English supporters were not there but because of the lateness was that the Luftwaffe.
dagar09 2 years ago
Actually, this is Luftwaffe official march.
Migo78 2 years ago
The ME 262 probably was the best design, but to call the others ridiculously lame tells me you are not very well informed.
SRTST51 2 years ago
The ME 262 was the best of the Luftwaffe designs.The rest sre ridiculously lame.
mikejunior80 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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SCORPIONHALLOWEEN13 2 years ago
La mejor aviación que ha existido nunca. Good job!
Bernar1984 2 years ago 2
beautiful
keena0425 2 years ago
The most advance military at the time! Too bad the Wehrmacht was mismanaged.
JustPhilNY 2 years ago 3
@ 2:32 is a row of Heinkel HE 100's
SRTST51 2 years ago
Very good job !!!!........
deuschlan 2 years ago
que aviones tan hermosos!!!
andres6kx 2 years ago
@ 2:32, i'm unfamiliar with this plane. is it possible i could get an answer without hearing how really very smart you are and how dumb i must be?
benchracerX 2 years ago
If you're referring to the line up picture of several planes - they resemble FW's - the cowling is a bit off, but the landing gear are dead on...the pic that follows looks like an Arado variant
carolina11b 2 years ago
i think it might be a german focke-wulf fw 190
lordford6 2 years ago
BF109 e,f and G are pictured as the stuka ju88 condor long range bomber...163 comet, 262, bf110's, he162, ar234, Do335, he280,fw190 a8-s he12, and many experimental A/C that never made it oof the drwaing board... Eric hartman 352 kills and Gerhard Barkhorn with 301 kills were the 2 top most ace...the second one in the vid almost looks like nowotny the 1st is def hartman
jg54traut 2 years ago
2:32 def not 190s... I dont know what they are though. The ones before are... But they do look similar! They have inline engines and the tail and canopy are totaly different!
vetitoe362 2 years ago
SRTST51 is absolutely right, they are he 100's. i had to do a little research but i did find them. they are a prewar design whose performance wasn't up to speed with the me-109 and later designs and as such weren't produced in great numbers(only 100 examples i believe).
benchracerX 2 years ago
A PhD holder Danny? Riiiiigggghhht... Just like I'm Neil Armstrong. Unless you mean "PhD" as the acronym: "Pretending to hold Degree." You can't even spell or use grammar well enough to pass a remedial college course. Your anger over something this silly speaks for itself, but you've just made me lol hard. Please link us to some sort of essay you've written for work, or tell us what university you teach at. What have you done to contribute to "academia"? Anything? Nothing? :/
savagelife714 2 years ago
Ahh... I have yet to see anyone defending Udet, Kesslering, Rundstedt, Paulus, or even Rommel. So what? All flawed men, all made mistakes in their field of work. So did Monty, Eisenhower, Patton, and Bradley. And dare I say Dowding? :D People just really hate Göring and Hitler, so they get more blame. "I didnt want to show Görings face on this because he was a fat faggot." Well said! :D HAHA!
defacto109 2 years ago
Actually Dannyboy, we both find you funny. Give yourself a rest, lol. Not very impressive when someone spits out quotes and stats from widely published and available books and info. No offense, but high school students are fully capable of doing and saying everything you have. Then savage says: "...and lose a war by dumb decisions and leaders." You reply with: "...it was flawed from strategic-operational-tactical levels." Same thing, different rhetoric. Just give it up...
defacto109 2 years ago
The Luftwaffe was a flawed air force from top to bottom: suggested reading, Cladwell and Muller's "Defence of the Reich" - the raining system was not a thorough as ignorant people seem to believe. So it is not just a case of bad "leaders" it was flawed from strategic-operational-tactical levels. Which is why it failed or suffered heavy losses when pitted against even half-competent opponents.
DannyBoy777777 2 years ago
Indeed. But the RAF, USAAF etc were just as bad in the early period. Whereas the Allies learned from their mistakes, the Germans did not. I agree, people blame Goring and Hitler, but Kesselring and Udet etc heavily influenced Goring. It was a collective "effort".
Mike1098717 2 years ago
yea your right, germany based their air force around tactical aircraft when the RAF and the USAAF centered around aircraft with heavy long distance bombing beacause they believed that a war could be won with one swoop of their aircraft. WHile germany did not have the technology available to manufacture engines with the capability of flying heavy airplanes long distance due to the shortage of time they had to invent an engine of than magnitude. because their aviation branch of the military had
lordford6 2 years ago
been prohibited due to the treaty of versailles
lordford6 2 years ago
For what it's worth: An academic is a person who works as a researcher (and usually teacher) at a university, college, or similar institution in post-secondary (tertiary) education. He or she is nearly always an advanced degree holder. (Per Wikipedia) So no, Danny is not an academic. My father is a history professor. He will get a kick out of this. Savage, you are an asshole, and Danny is a wanna-be. --Ende
defacto109 2 years ago
I am you idiot. A PhD holder is an academic. Its a pity you have shown your father what an idiot you are.
DannyBoy777777 2 years ago
DB777777 - that was harsh. Who cares if he doesn't believe you! You know you are so f**k 'em! You walked into that one defacto - think before you speak and be sure not to make assumptions!
Mike1098717 2 years ago
Lol, and sorry, but I can't believe you've taken this seriously. It's youtube, lol. A real "academic" wouldn't have even fell for it. If he was legit, he'd be doing something like publishing a journal to educate others. Not cursing and writhing with every prod on here, lol. Just another case of someone who wants self-assurance over the internet. Real life hasn't given them any. Just look at the emotional investment exposed, haha! Worthy of Broadway. And to be fair, yes I was "trolling" ;)
savagelife714 2 years ago
How do you know he isn't? A lack of any response may mean the guy is busy doing just that. What I saw was someone pissed off by "outlandish" claims. Anywho, I'm done here I think.
Mike1098717 2 years ago
Yes, the 109 was a superb BnZ fighter. But a 190 trying to turn'n burn with a SpitIX or P51 is dead meat (usually). That's the classical idea of a "dogfight" (a vague term). 190s weren't supposed to TnB. They were fast, powerful hunters who were supposed to nail the enemy, speed away, come back, and do it again.
savagelife714 2 years ago
1 last note re: the stats etc, most of it depended on the pilot not the aircraft. I read a translated version of Gunther Rall's My Flying Book, he said from the BoB to the end of the war, the RAF pilots were the equal of the German. He mentions the Americans were good too, but they came over in "such numbers there was little time to engage in 'sporting' contests as with the RAF". Over and Out.
Mike1098717 2 years ago
On a more serious note, you're absolutely correct. Pilots make all the difference. Air combat is such a complex matter, that not even a huge book can cover every worthy aspect of it. No one plane is better than another. It's never black and white. Each are an integral part of an airforce, working towards a common goal. You can have great planes and pilots and lose a war by dumb decisions and leaders. Case and point, the Germans in WWII...
savagelife714 2 years ago
And please, what questions? I will answer them all honestly. I admit I've been bullshitting with him; that he was right about. I love the 190, but yes, it had plenty problems. But it was a great aircraft. Problem is, people like to compare it in "dogfighting" terms. A 190 pilot who dogfights is nuts. They aren't dogfighters. They're made for hit'n run, boom n' zoom fighting. A style similar to what our F4Fs used against A6Ms.
savagelife714 2 years ago
Erm, sorry to disagree. But the Bf 109 was the boom and zoom, it was the 190 that was a dogfighter it was designed for medium-low altitude fighting. Its why the Fw 190s performance fell off massively aove 20-21,000ft - the fundamental reason the Bf 109 was kept in production -its higher performance above 20,000. Both the Spitfire/109/190 and P-51 had all reached the end of their development life by 1945.
Mike1098717 2 years ago
This extends far beyond myself ever posting. Yes, I did anticipate this response. People just want to enjoy history and videos like this, but people have to come preaching their nationalist BS. One idiot was even preaching Nazi ideology. Really is sickening. Youtube, with its small space constraints, isn't a place for any real debate either. Just a short slice of humor. And what humor it has been.
savagelife714 2 years ago
I have seen any "nationalist BS". I havn't seen him claim the UK won it alone. You admit pressing his buttons for a bit of fun without engaging in proper debate. Wouldn't this make you a troll? As you once accussed him of being? He hasn't pressed your buttons (only when attacked). He has done more than you to engage in proper debate -even if is an arrogant know it all -academics usually are. Which is why I believe he is!
Mike1098717 2 years ago
Having followed through the posts it seems that Savagelife714 is the one in the wrong. The guy is a childish idiot. I find this nonsense about "Yeah sure come over" silly - it sounds like something a child would say. Iit is quite obvious you are the fanboy. You're just copying what DannyBoy said earlier-get your own line kid.BTW, I can count at least 7 questions +points you have failed to answer after being completely flattened. I'm a Luftwaffe enthusiast- but you are an agenda driven extremist.
Mike1098717 2 years ago
LOL! I admit, I've intentionally pushed the guys buttons, because of his arrogant demeanor and condescending attitude towards everyone he's replied to. It's funny because now he's contradicted himself several times. And no, a child would want to curse people out and "fight". "come on over and fight" would have been the ticket. I still offer him a trip to an airshow, all on me. But the expense becomes his when he realizes I was dead serious about being a pilot. Offer pending...
savagelife714 2 years ago
If you "press his buttons" you can expect such a response. I can't find any. There is absolutely no change in his stance at all. You still are not answering his questions -despite claiming he only asked a couple! It seems he has a level of understanding in military affairs I have yet to see from you. You come off like a jerk. "Everyone he's replied to" - he has only replied to you - now who's contradicting themselves? Are are you being economical with the truth to cover your own poor judgement?
Mike1098717 2 years ago
Still no email from you, FannyBoii66666? What's the matter? I'm still eagerly awaiting contact. Lol, and this is classic, "...they were modified to demonstrate the feebleness of your position." Setting up a straw man here, are we? Yeah, look it up. Please educate yourself about debate tactics. Too bad you aren't on trial in court. You'd have already been hung...
savagelife714 2 years ago
You have only asked one or two questions tops. One of which was "what's all that crap about?" when I prodded your insecurities by mocking your mythological beliefs about the Spitfire. I've skimmed backwards through your posts and can not find any other questions. If I've overlooked them, please point me to it. It would be a pleasure...
savagelife714 2 years ago
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DannyBoy777777 2 years ago
Your ridiculous posturing is getting you nowhere. Re-read the posts. You hav'nt answered any the retorts or questions put to about your absurd assertions. Each one swiftly crushed - about training being superior, the alleged superiority of German pistion-engined fighters (by far the funniest) etc. And boy, I don't have any insecurities, I'm educated in military history. You are the one screaming "Propaganda"! As revisionist always do. You still havn't answered the question about wikipedia. LOL
DannyBoy777777 2 years ago
You have only to look up the performance data, pal. Do a side by side of the Fw190D, P51D, and SpitIX. Do other planes too. Generally, German planes are better in a head to head, 1v1 comparison. So what made the difference? German planes were too expensive and complex. Sometimes impractically so. The Allies were far economically and industrially superior as well. 1000 good planes > 100 excellent ones.
savagelife714 2 years ago
Sorry this isn't true either. I think you are making this stuff up. Either that or your information is poor. I'm not a P-51 or Spit fan, but the D and late mark Griffon and Merlin variants were the best all round performers in combat. The Fw 190D was inferior to even the P-47 in most respects - even the few fitted with the WM50 supercharger. Though I will defend the Fw 190D to my dyng breath, despite its shortcommings!
Mike1098717 2 years ago
Oh, and Jotunspor: Cheerleader tryouts aren't being held here. Just google websites for British Ultra-Nats or RAF/BoB Mythologists. I'm sure they can point you in the right direction...
savagelife714 2 years ago
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DannyBoy777777 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Tell me something, are you the same savagelife714 that got taken apart on the wikipeda Battle of Britain site? By people that were not even British? They tore you apart. You failed to answer any of their questions, and ended up rambling for pages. One guy said that was the difference between the revisionist world and the real one: short and sweet vs rambling moron. LOL You know nothing!!! Stick to building your airfix aircraft in your moms basement rookie.
DannyBoy777777 2 years ago
Lol. You're such a liar. You say "I wouldn't dream of quoting you", but you've done it on several occasions (however distorted). But, rattlesnakes actually are quite trustworthy. They only strike if bothered, and they give fair warning first. They also make their own living, and don't leech off of others (like you off the honest taxpayers). So, rattlers are some good ol' snakes! Plus a German rattlesnake killed 200 SpitIXs in one sortie!!! Ha! Take that! ;) LOL!
savagelife714 2 years ago
No. They were not direct quotes they were modified to demonstrate the feebleness of your position. Its funny you don't answer questions posted to you. You can't, because your an air head trying to look like you know what your taking about.
DannyBoy777777 2 years ago
No, if I wanted to copy your "style" I'd begin every post with "Rubbish!" Then I'd seethe with anger and resentment, and include nonsense and profanity in every sentence. Then I'd try to use insults and pitiful attempts at belittling others to take the focus off of my own lack of knowledge. Then when someone countered me, I'd distort their true position to fit my own misguided argument. Oh, and falsely glorify myself as an "academic" when I can't handle the English language alone. That's you..
savagelife714 2 years ago
You have.
DannyBoy777777 2 years ago
Btw, positive dihedral is when the wings or tail plane of an aircraft angle upwards. Negative dihedral or "anhedral" means angled downwards. Most WWII era planes had + dihedral. Now we have many modern fighters with anhedral and even polyhedral wings/tails. There are even aircraft with variable geometry, VTOL capability, inverted wing sweep. There are all sorts of designs. Knowing what dihedral means is rather trivial, and sorry, it doesn't make you an "academic". This is priceless...
savagelife714 2 years ago
Tell the truth, you looked it up. And I didn't say it did. An example of how you fail to distil information - obviously lacking in a non-academic.
DannyBoy777777 2 years ago
Wow. So you're telling me if the Axis had (hypothetically) conquered all of the Eurasian landmass, and the continent of Africa, they would not have been able to launch a joint-invasion of the US? Pfff.. Give a peasant boy that amount of power and resources and he'll invade Mars. "Academic" my ass HAHA! Why would I not give you my email? Are you really that scared? Check your private messages, "buddy".
savagelife714 2 years ago
Sunny, academics don't deal in alternative reality. It would not have happened. German apologists always blame Hitler and Goring for everything. The problem with that is it absolves the German OKW and its Generals (particularly Guderian) from making some of the worst decisions in history. But even if they had, the Germans did not understand that to achieve their aims they needed powerful Allies. They did not have the manpower to do it alone. But the German way in war doesn't do strategy.
DannyBoy777777 2 years ago
And Arto, great vid and thanks for sharing this! I do apologize though; I probably shouldn't have fed the trolls. But there's always got to be some fantasy-living RAF worshipers trying to ruin a cool video about Luftwaffe planes. Some folks can't appreciate anything not made by their "empire", I suppose. (P.S.- Good call on omitting Göring! LOL!)
savagelife714 2 years ago