What a sad case this woman and people like her are. She is attempting to argue with a man who owns a multitude of original documents related to our nation's early history and writings from the founders themselves, by simply referencing false and revisionist historians that truly have an agenda to exclude the mention of God in the public sphere. Was that a straw-man in her pocket or was she just glad to see failure? WAH, WAh, Wah...
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
David Barton is just another republican religious right member who is trying to turn the tabels to make the atheists and freedom from religion foundation look like the bad guys. when in reality David Barton and Lee Strobel are both religious extremists who are trying to sway the debate by giving David Barton more air time
"While the various Scenes of the War, in which I have experienced the timely aid of the Militia of Philadelphia, recur to my mind, my ardent prayer ascends to Heaven that they may long enjoy the blessings of that Peace which has been obtained by the divine benediction on our common exertions."- George Washington December 12, 1783
@1angrywhite George Washington was a Christian; congratulations, you have now been promoted from Captain obvious to Lt. Colonel obvious. In other startling revelations, the sky is blue and wild bears crap in the woods.
@1angrywhite No, I'm really just more of an asshole; but that's better than being an ignorant bigot. David Barton is a revisionist; he does not deserve to be called a historian. This country was founded upon secular Enlightenment philosophy, and established upon a secular constitution.
@RebelWrestler45 You don't get to rewrite history either dick sucker. People don't get to choose their nick names; you will not be the first. These are left to the perception of others, and I say you are a malignant sliver of flea jizz. hahahahah! FU-Q and Merry Shitmas. restle my nuts........
@1angrywhite I'm not attempting to rewrite history; it is demonstrable fact that the the US is a secular nation, founded upon secular philosophy. Barton is an agent of misinformation; using kindergarten reasoning, unsubstantiated correlation, and straight up lies, of the ilk that would make even Michael Moore blush, to propagate his version of bronze age mythology.
@RebelWrestler45 I don't have the time to waste on you. You know that this place was founded by people of one God, looking upward to the same God. Documents speak of this God, and monuments speak to the same God. The only reason it isn't mentioned is because the Anglican Church had pissed off many in the colonies and God existed without question. Prayer opened congressional meetings and none boycotted it. Even paint can be wet without a sign. Of course your pants would be wet.
@1angrywhite This country was founded by a collection of individuals, many of whom were not Christians, but deists. The Constitution says nothing of any god (much less a Christian god), except in specific exclusionary terms via the 1st amendment. Do we have a Christian heritage in this country? Of course, nobody would deny that; but we are a secular nation, founded upon secular ideology; NOT the Bible or 'Christian morality'.
@RebelWrestler45 Make two lists, one of Christians and another of Deists and then get back to me. Both douche! Not just the popular deists that you have memorized. Learn something new and learn to capitalize God, the same as you would Allah.
@1angrywhite Alexander Hamilton, Roger Sherman, John Witherspoon, Abraham Baldwin, Frederick A. Muhlenberg, Benjamin Rush, Charles Carroll, John Qunicy Adams, Samuel Adams, Patrick Henry, James Wilson, John Jay, Jacob Broom, John Dickinson, John Hancock, George Mason, Gouverneur Morris, George Washington, John Adams and others all were Christians.
Thomas Paine, Ethan Allen, Benjamin Franklin were Deists.
We were founded predominately by Christians. Deism was almost non-existent anyway.
The fact is Christianity is here to stay. Wether people want to acknowledge christianity or not the fact is it has set the standard for many things in our world today. you can try and take what ever text you want out of its context but the truth will always prevail. Atheist have put so much effort into disproving Christianity that all atheist have done is show the world how strong and accurate the Gospels really are. God bless you all.
@AABREU80 Unfortunately your first assertion is correct; bronze age monotheistic mythology is here to stay. It has set the standards for genocide, torture, and theft. The gospels are not 'accurate' in any sense of the word; they are neither historical, nor do they provide any original moral precepts.
@AABREU80 Atheists don’t need to spend a moment trying to “disprove christianity.” All we do is show the absurdity of religions. Tell us in what context this is moral behavior: “Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses” 1 Samuel 15:2-3.
Yes the first amendment restricts the government from establishing a religion. Among other things it wisely keeps religious dogma out of public schools. I don’t share your opinion that the Adams quotes are fake. Are the other quotes I put up also fake?
@max2right (1) "Yes the first amendment restricts the government from establishing a religion. Among other things it wisely keeps religious dogma out of public schools."
First Amendment- "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
It restricts Congress from passing a law establishing a national religion and restricting religious activity. I don't see anywhere where it says anything about schools.
@bRizzle2009100 The United States Supreme Court has ruled on that. It is settled law re affirmed many times in subsequent decisions. The Establishment Clause prohibits the teaching of any religious dogma in public schools. Do you work at not thinking?
@max2right 1.) The U.S. Court prior to 1962 had ruled on religious instruction in schools before and held them to be constitutional. The Court violated over 150 years of precedent when it made this decision. Just look at the Engel v. Vitale case. No precedents were listed. But lets forget about the Court.
The Court can rule that the Earth is flat. Does that make it right? Lets look at what the Constitution says instead of what the Court tells us it says.
Obviously a restriction on Congress. This is prohibiting Congress, the legislative branch of the federal government, from passing a law (which is what its designed to do, pass laws).
"...respecting an establishment of religion..."
Establishing a national religion or a state run church as they had in the English colonies.
@max2right 3.) So it's clear that the First Amendment puts a restriction on Congress and Congress only. I don't understand how you can twist the word Congress to mean states, government employees, schools, individuals etc. Congress is prohibited from establishing a national religion or state run church and restricting the religious activities of individuals.That is all. To suggest anything more would be to add words that aren't there.
@bRizzle2009100 In our democratic republic it’s the congress that makes all federal laws and it’s the federal court system that applies the laws so of course the Constitution addresses only the congress. The courts have decided the issue. We have a secular government as the constitution requires. I twisted no words. It is illegal to teach any religious dogna in public schools isn't it? Not my twisting is it?
@max2right "Congress shall make no law..." How does "Congress" mean states, government employees, teachers, public schools etc? It says Congress cannot pass a law that establishes a national religion. So a law has to be passed in order to violate the Constitution correct? Saying that "Congress" somehow means teachers, public schools, states etc IS twisting the words.
The Courts can rule that the Sun revolves around the Earth. It doesn't change what reality is OR what the Constitution says.
@bRizzle2009100 You apparently have no concept of how a democratic republic form of government works. No matter what you want to believe the separation of church and state is the universally accepted law in this country. One cannot legally teach religious dogma in schools or use public property or funds for religious purposes. In this sense it’s still a free country so you are free to work at changing the law. I’ll wish you bad luck all the way.
@max2right "You apparently have no concept of how a democratic republic form of government works."
I have a pretty good concept on how our republic works. All you have to do is look at our Constitution. It says with regarding religion "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." You have still yet to prove to me how the word "Congress" means state governments, public schools, government employees, teachers, etc.
@bRizzle2009100 What you seem unable to grasp is that all federal laws are made by congress. State laws are made by state government and cannot supersede federal laws and local laws passed by city governments cannot supersede either state or federal. Therefor when congress is prohibited from making a law all other jurisdictions are also prohibited. It’s all in the Constitution.
@bRizzle2009100 “You have still yet to prove to me how the word "Congress" means state governments, public schools, government employees, teachers, etc.”
And where on earth did you get the idea that public schools, government employees or teachers make laws?
@max2right Right. Thats exactly my point. Nothing in the First Amendment restricts anything else but the U.S. Congress. It doesn't restrict public schools, teachers, government employees, states etc. When someone says the First Amendment restricts the teaching of religious instruction in schools, whether they're a public or private citizen, they can't point to any words where it says it.
Now I hope you see. How can an individual or public school make laws? Thats exactly the point.
@bRizzle2009100 What can I say? You just don’t or won’t understand what most Christians and even the Christian group of lawyers organized to fight for the teaching of religious dogma in public schools understands. The court has ruled. You may think it’s wrong but until there is a reversal of that decision it stands as a monument to freedom from religious oppression. It protects us all.
@max2right So you're acknowledging that the U.S. Constitution doesn't prohibit religious instruction in schools. Your argument rests on what the U.S. Supreme Court says. The judicial branch enforces the laws that are already on the books, they don't pass laws. So for them to say that voluntary prayer or religious instruction in public schools is unconstitutional that means it has to be in the Constitution correct? But you just admitted to me that its not. So where is this law that says that?
@bRizzle Can you not understand? With great wisdom the founders of this nation divided the government into three equal branches. They knew that changing times would require interpretations of the laws. As the law stands public money and property cannot be used for religious purposes. It’s settled the law and, as I said, it protects both you and I from religious persecution. Would you want your children indoctrinated with religious dogma other than the one you believe in?
@max2right 1.) "With great wisdom the founders of this nation divided the government into three equal branches."
The branches of govt are not equal. The legislative was designed to be the strongest bc it was closest to the ppl. The judicial was the farthest from the ppl so it was the weakest of the 3. Read Federalist #78 on the judiciary: "the judiciary is beyond comparison the weakest of the three departments of power." They are not "co-equal" and never have been.
@max2right 2.) "They knew that changing times would require interpretations of the laws."
The founders were in favor of interpreting the law based on its original intent and not an evolving or "living constitution" interpretation. That philosophy didn't come about until the late 19th century when Christopher Columbus Langdell applied the theory of evolution to a change in the law. That if mankind evolves, the law must evolve with mankind. That was not apart of the intent of the founders.
@max2right 3.) "As the law stands public money and property cannot be used for religious purposes."
Really? What law was passed by Congress that says that?
By the way, Jefferson as president used federal money for religious purposes for the indians. Guess Jefferson didn't know what he was doing huh? Look up Jefferson's treaty with the Kaskaskia Indians.
@bRizzle2009100 Chapter 1 History of the ancient world begins like this: After God in the beginning had created the heavens and the earth etc...
This book was part of the curriculum offered at Virginia Military Institute. No apology made for the belief whatsoever. Some have been duped by professors who hate God into rewriting history. They take the liberty of robbing me of the planet Pluto like it is nothing and ignore common sense when you place it before them.
@1angrywhite I am not familiar with that book. Can you give me some more information on it?
In the last 50 years or so we have seen a great distortion of history. The history we have learned and our parents have learned is not the history that was taught to previous generations yes. I don't see how your reference to Pluto is relevant thought. Maybe you can enlighten me as to what you are speaking of.
@bRizzle2009100 That's funny. Inside joke about science and how flawed science is revised at will, without apology. Not relevant to this unless it gets to the Bible. The book is "Weber's outlines of universal history," It is one in my collection.
@1angrywhite I looked the book up and its author. It was published in the 1850's! Thats amazing. Its author was an accredited historian at the time. The book was used in public schools too. The entire first page of the book is basically the early history of the Bible and it was taught in schools. Thats pretty awesome. Very different from the books we read nowadays.
@bRizzle2009100 Due process clause of the 14th Amendment you bumbling idiot; the Bill of Rights also applies to state governments and local municipalities. There are several supreme court cases that reinforce this. Do your research kid.
@max2right (2) Its not about whether its an opinion if they are or not. If you can't trace the quotes back to an original letter or writing by Adams or somebody else in the founding era then it is fake. I told you where it came from. The quotes are fake.
I addressed the other quotes Im pretty sure. The Jefferson one is commonly taken out of context. Jefferson didn't question the existence of God. He firmly believed in the existence of an eternal Creator.
@bRizzle2009100 I’ve no intent to post what is untrue. I will take the time to research the quotes attributed to Adams before I use them again. This conversation is not about what any of the founding fathers believed. In essence it’s about what they didn’t believe and clearly Jefferson did not believe christian dogma. He even wrote his version of a bible eliminating all mention of Jesus. And the majority of them didn’t believe our government should support any religion. .
Adams again- God is an essence we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of there will never be any liberal science." Ben Franklin -I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies." and “to follow by faith alone is to follow blindly.”
James Madison -“Separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe.” “Question with boldness even the existence of god because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear” Thomas Jefferson,. John Adams- The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammadan nation
@max2right The 'separation of church and state' means that the federal govt cannot interfere with religious activity or establish a national religion. This reveled in the First Amendment, "Congress shall make no law..." Restricts the federal govt.
Both the Adams quotes you have up there are fakes. U might want to check them out. One is parts of an 1820 & 1825 letters put together and the other is taken from a treaty in which the State Dept says that particular article doesnt exist.
@fatheremmons85 Actually, that was not the case at all. The Treaty of Tripoli clearly states, "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion", regardless if you read on. Barton tried twisting it's words. The references of "God", "Creator", and "Divine Providence" in the Declaration of Independence, in no such way, go above Amendment 1 of The Constitution.
@HydrogenLovesHelium I was mainly talking about this exchange and how it APPEARED that she seemed to be frustrated and couldnt come back, even if he did twist his words to his advantage. And I think everybody knows where TJ stood on the issues of christianity and God. "I have sworn upon the great altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." I think that would include religion.
@HydrogenLovesHelium I've even read things where Barton suggested that TJ omitted the words of Jesus and the miracles in the Bible so the Native Americans would be able to grasp the idea of Christianity easier without all the supernatural stuff. His point being that this action wasn't any suggestion of TJ's disbelief in the supernatural, but merely an attempt to help the Indians. First time I'd ever heard that idea. Got me questioning his reliability.
@fatheremmons85 If u get a copy of the original reprints of Jefferson's book by the Library of Congress in the early 1900's, you'll see the Library of Congress has an introduction to the book in which it states that Jefferson did in fact create this book for the Indians. David Barton is correct. All you have to do is go on the Library of Congress' website and look at the original reprints.
@fatheremmons85 Well no. He did it for his own personal reasons as well. Jefferson liked to read stuff on moral philosophy a lot (he really read just about any topic u can think of). He thought Jesus' moral teachings were the best mankind had ever seen. Every night before he went to bed he would read something moral and the most often thing he read was his book "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth". He wanted to be able to read and appreciate the moral philosophy of Jesus.
@bRizzle2009100 Just so I have this right, TJ did not believe Jesus performed miracles or was the Son of God, but merely a man of good moral standing? From things I've read and seen, that is the claim. If so, then wouldn't this raise a question on his judgement? If you think Jesus was the most morally sound man in history but was not the Son of God or a miracle worker, then you are calling Jesus a liar because these claims are made by Jesus in the Bible.
@bRizzle2009100 When speaking of Jesus, and knowing what is known about him, it would be contradictory to say he was/is the most moral man in history, but then deny certain characteristics about him that would make him "supernatural". By taking that stand you are basically saying that Jesus lied about being be the Son of God and doing miracles, which would in turn call into question his morality and integrity. I'm just trying to line this all out so don't be offended.
@fatheremmons85 (1) Well now we're getting into Jefferson's religious beliefs and what he thought of Jesus and Christianity. Jefferson's beliefs cannot be sized up in a word like "Christian" "Deist" or "Unitarian". He really derived his beliefs from many different sources. He accepted some Christian doctrine, some Deistic, some Unitarian, naturalistic, etc. His beliefs were very unorthodox for the time. One of things he believed was that Jesus never claimed to be Divine...
@fatheremmons85 (2) ...He was very good friends with Joseph Priestly who was a Unitarian minister. Jefferson believed that priests and ecclesiastical leaders overtime re-worded and re-wrote the Bible to fit there own views. As a result many things were put in there that were never actually done or said. He believed that Jesus never actually claimed to be Divine or performed any miracles and that those things were added later. He called himself a "disciple" of Jesus' moral teachings.....
@fatheremmons85 (3)..... but never actually believed in his Divinity nor the Trinity. Jefferson DID however, believe in God. He did believe that revelation came from God himself and that God intervened in the natural all the time. He prayed all the time. He went to church on Sundays. He even had his own prayer book he carried around with him. He helped start Sunday services in the Capital Building and attended them faithfully. He wasn't irreligious at all. He just had unorthodox spiritual views.
it's quite likely that he might have done this to appease the religious, as he was a public figure dependent on being in favors of others; it's exactly the same way not in American politics, one must being openly theistic or never rise to power.
In terms of what Jefferson stated in personal letters to friends, he seemed to be very openly anti-religious in his private life, going as far as calling religion myths and fables, and the Biblical god a 3 headed monster
@LadyAmaltheaUnicorn Well Jefferson was very personal about his religious beliefs. Not even his family knew exactly what he believed. He revealed it a few times to a few close friends & when he did he expressed belief in "Christianity" but his "version" of it was very different. His beliefs resembled closely to that of a "biblical Unitarian". He wasn't anti-religion. He gave to churches & Bible societies his whole life & according to family and friends was a regular attendee of Sunday services.
"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."
"We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication ."
@LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 1) The first quote "I have recently... fables and mythology" is again not a real quote. It is attributed to an 1883 article and listed that it came from a "letter to Dr. Woods". It later appeared in a 1906 book. It does not leave a date or anything. The Library of Congress, Thomas Jefferson's Monticello and others say that this "letter" does not exist. No one knows where it came from. U should research these things before you get them from secular/atheist websites.
@LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 2) The 2nd quote, "We discover... and fabrication." I cannot find any source for this quote at all. When I search the quite I get nothing but atheist websites who list the quote but do not provide a source. If you are going to list anything AT LEAST put a source. If it cannot be traced back to an original source then it must be FAKE until proven otherwise. Again, u have provided another fake quote.
"I am a materialist; he takes the side of spiritualism; he [Jesus] preaches the efficacy of repentance towards forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it."
"this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."
among many. If this is a Christian, than I'm a Christian too
@LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 3) Finally u list a quote that isn't fake!! Comes from a letter to William Short in 1820. There is nothing wrong with quote however. Jefferson states what he stated his entire life, that the moral precepts of Jesus are the most perfect anyone has ever preached. The "spirituality" Jefferson refers to is Jesus' Divinity. He did not believe Jesus claimed to be Divine in anyway, thus did not believe in his Divinity.
@LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 4) This is a quote from John Adams. This comes from a letter written to Jefferson in 1817. The quote is commonly taken out of context. John Adams was reporting a conversation between to men he had heard. He was describing the conversation and he was disgusted by the religious bickering of the two men. See the next comment of the entire quote to see its context. Its too big to put in this one.
The Parson coolly replied "Cleverly! You would be the best Man in the World, if You had no Religion." Twenty times, in the course of my late Reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible Worlds, if there were no Religion in it.! ! !" But in this exclamati[on] I should have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell.
@LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 6) Well, I don't see what you were trying to prove here. You had 3 quotes from Jefferson 2 of them were fake. You had one from Adams which was completely taken out of context. You provided quotes from 2 of the founders & that means that the other 200+ founders were the same as them? Thats nonsense. Don't believe what u see on atheist & secular humanist websites my friend. I know you got many of your quotes from them bc no respectable historian uses the quotes u provided.
She never gave any substance to any of her arguments. She spent all of her air time attacking David Barton and never providing any evidence for her arguments.
You know you have a liberal in a corner when they resort to individual attacks and get away from the substance.
@bRizzle2009100 You have no idea what your talking about. There was full substance to her arguments. It was The Constitution along with many other aspects of US history, which you clearly do not understand. I know that because of your simplistic response. If I had more room to comment, I would explain in very full detail as to why David Barton lost the argument.
@HydrogenLovesHelium Message me why he was wrong and I will respond. I want to know what you have to say. I believe in freedom of expression and that healthy debate is good and that it brings out the truth.
United States (forbidden explicitly under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, and implicitly in Article VI of the same document.) is NOT a Christian Nation. Separation of Church and State. Jesus is NOT mentioned by name in the Constitution. Jesus would not approve of Bldg. a nation on genocide of N. Americans. Simply Google keywords and educate yourselves. "God" is vague. The word "Jesus" or "We are a Christian Nation", not in Bible. Muslims, Hindus, Nordic; all have GOD(s).
As if this liberal broad does not have an agenda herself. She acts as if her left-wing organization has no agenda and therefore David Barton should not either. Did you notice that Barton never called her a name, but she resorted to sarcasitically syaing "Mr. Wall Builder"? He could have called her many things, including someone who thinks she needs to complain about virtually everything, but he never did.
@rdj410 She, along with the FFRF, complains when people like Mr. Wall Builder twist, distort, and deny accurate US history, The Declaration of Independence, and Amendment 1 of The Constitution.
@erician1000 Except the Treaty of Tripoli explicitly states that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Oh, and there's the separation of church and state. And the Constitution doesn't mention God, Jesus Christ, or anything vaguely religious.
people like you are ruining consevative america.. The founding fathers wanted a free nation with freedom of religion but with judeochristian values and doctrines. Then how can you explain that every american president was/is a christian, that the president has to put his/her hand on the bible at the inauguration and that one of our mottos is IN GOD WE TRUST..
@erician1000 PS Kennedy who wasn't a bad president at the diplomatic level, ruined and tried to abolish these values etc. but he died and was punished.
@erician1000 And Please stop trying to convert people into your liberal pro homosexual selfish atheist crap.. We all know a religious person is 3 times more likely than an atheist to do charitable actions and participate in local elections...
@erician1000 The President doesn't HAVE to do that; Theodore Roosevelt did not use a Bible when taking the oath in 1901. John Quincy Adams swore on a book of law instead of the Bible. The motto "In God We Trust" was ADDED in 1956 just like "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance during the Cold War out of fear; the original motto was "e pluribus unum" (out of many, one).
Are you even American? You don't even know the basics!
@erician1000 Even deist Founding Fathers like Thomas Jefferson said "There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites."
Another one by Benjamin Franklin: "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
@jacqueline716 "Of all systems of morality,ancient or modern, which have come under my observation,none appear to be so pure as that of Jesus." --Thomas Jefferson to William Canby,1813
@revhowardgoss That's why Jefferson literally cut out all the supernatural aspects of the Bible, rejected the notion of Christ's divinity, took the good moral parts of Jesus' teachings, and ultimately compiled his own version called the "Jefferson Bible." Even back in a time when it was not socially acceptable to be anything but Christian, he managed to see beyond the irrationalities of Christianity.
@jacqueline716 No, he didn't, stupid, he was trying to give the Indians a condensed version of Christianity to help convert them. "The reason that Christianity is the best friend of government is Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart."--President Thomas Jefferson.
@revhowardgoss FAIL. According to the Jefferson Encyclopedia, that quotation has not been found in any of the writings of Thomas Jefferson. In other words, it's a spurious quotation (you can look that word up in the dictionary since you're an ignoramus).
@jacqueline716 'I have always said, and always will say, that the studious perusal of the Sacred Volume will make better citizens, better fathers, better husbands... the Bible makes the best people in the world."--President Thomas Jefferson
@revhowardgoss Wow, you really are thick. If you did simple research, you would find that the second quote too is unconfirmed and likely fake. Keep trying old man.
@jacqueline716" The general principles on whichthe founders achieved independence, were the general principles of Christianity."--John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 28, 1813, The Adams-Jefferson Letters,ed, Lester J. Cappon,(Chapel Hill,NC; Univrsity of North Carolina Press,1959),volume 2, pp339-40.
@revhowardgoss Adams was a Unitarian and under his Presidency, the Treaty of Tripoli was signed, stating that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion." Do you really not have a thought of your own that you have to copy-paste quotes from Christian revisionist websites like that of David Barton? Go back to school and learn some critical thinking skills.
Unitarian Universalists claim anyone who ever - even for a moment - questions divinity of Christ is a "Unitarian", then fail to realize that Unitarians in the past have virtually NO CONNECTION to new age Universalist Unitarian now.
With no morals, absolutes, or values that cannot be changed, rewritten, or ignored, & no judgement to answer (so they think) they lie, cheat, & sin with abandon & pretending there's no consequence. Reality= your judge here on Earth, God=next
@revhowardgoss Specifically, that spurious quote appeared in David Barton's 1988 book The Myth of Separation, but was removed in his current book, Original Intent, in which he refined many of the lies found in his earlier book.
@revhowardgoss You're an embarrassment for accusing someone of being a lesbian just because you dislike the person's opinion. David Barton's statements are intellectually bankrupt.
@revhowardgoss Why do you resort to ad hominem attacks (false ones at that!) instead of criticizing the person's actual argument? Of course, it must be because you have no rational defenses!
@spongeicus Why can't you come up with one rational argument to refute what Gaylor said? Instead, your comment shows how you have to resort to childish name-calling because you have no debating skills.
religion doesnt let human ideas develop, because its stuck in purgotory. god will cure cancer and god will cure aids. they dont believe in evolution or science which shows they have no progress. they are stuck in midevil times reading the other bibles because christianity wasnt even developed yet. they are fairy tale worshippers. just like greek mythology and catholics but they think they are better.
@kathy160 You are a liar. God created science. You make no sense. Christianity was in existence way before medieval times. When do you think Christianity started?you're right, i don't comprehend how you can be so stupid.
@revhowardgoss lol real history question? what religion was first muslim or christianity? lol please prove your ignorance,,, better and easier jewish or christianity? do you know anything about history... because you truly look lke a christian puppet with no facts just brainwashing.
@kathy160 Islam was formed by Mohammed who was born in 570A.D. Christianity was formed by Jesus Christ in 33 A.D. That makes Christianity AT LEAST 537 years older than Islam.The Jewish religion dates back to the time of Abraham. Now you know what a fact looks like.
@revhowardgoss did david barton give you those numbers also? because historians dont agree with those numbers either..... wow zues is the god ok im sorry for doubting you and your imaginary books. your so brainwashed. why dont you tell us how god made cancer a couple of years ago also? why dont you the historian tell us why he made only adam and eve and we are all incests through gods creations............theres so many questions you dont ask yourself and i wont because your a lost cause. hail s
religion is a brain washing tool.. and was christianity alive when UNITED states was using black people as slaves? religion is a tool and republicans use it well. muslims didnt use balck people as slaves neither did catholics. people need to educate themselves. b4 they decide on religion on typing here. ths goes for revhowardbarton
fact is christianity is a FAITH based book. not facts. united states is a country of freedom of religion. chirstians like barton is trying to turn back time and get less rights for blacks and people that arent christians. its a racist point of view. kkk vote only republican and burn the christian cross for many religious reasons like barton has.....
@kathy160 You are a liar. He does not want less rights for anyone. You are a liar. And there is NOTHING more faith based than believing in evolution. That takes a massive amount of faith. It has not been proven. Don't even start with that trash. It is a theory, and a poor one, at that.
@revhowardgoss evolution is a scientific theory. lol, stop embarrassing yourself. adam and eve is a better theory? lol eve ate an apple. and killed all humans yet you dont believe in all humans .you still hate gays.
@kathy160 You are still a liar.There is not one truth in your comment. Nowhere. Not even the part about the apple. The Bible doesn't say it was an apple.No humans were killed.I believe in all humans. I don't hate gays. You are a liar. Any money spent on any schooling you might have received was wasted. You are poorly educated.
@revhowardgoss your a joke. ive seen your page. you worship a racist mans words.... hence bryan fischer............. its like you read and listen but dont comprehend, your like david barton changing the meanings of every word of a sentence . your a joke. im done with you. your a empty factless personbut with faith based ignorance. you believe in a book with no facts... its a faith based book like a tooth fairy book. you must get giddy when santa comes to town.
republicans pay david barton to manipulate faith based votes. he makes christians a one idea party. hate muslims, jews, atheists, gays, non white. david barton is a marketing tool. religion is a tool and republicans use it well.
I would have loved to see a healthy Christopher Hitchens destroy David Barton, Ann Gaylor did a decent job, but Baton is a charlatan who will not listen to reason, I think Hitchens' unabashed argument style and vast knowledge would be good to shut this man up!
@calthopian Hitchens is nothing but a windjammer who likes nothing better than to hear his own gums bump together. Gaylor is a disgrace. Barton DEMOLISHED her. What part of ORIGINAL Founding father quotes do you not understand.? If George Washington were running for office today you would be trashing him, too.
christians and all other religions remind me of a childs mentality. your fed as a child there is a santa clause, tooth fairy, a guy in the sky... its not until you learn and rational thinking till you can disprove these mental deceptions. david barton uses religion to make millions and sway peoples ideas in politics. he is a so called professor in glenn becks school..lol. it a school for little republicans to hate democrats, muslims, jews, the not wealthy americans.
@kathy160 Right, single celled organisms crawled out of the muck, developed lungs, grew hair, and became truck drivers? Now that's a REAL fairy tale. It takes a boatload of faith to believe in evolution.
@revhowardgoss so adam and eve is your story and there is no incest? do you fuck your sister now and say well christian ideology did it 2? lol.....it takes a gullible mind to believe in the bible. can you part the sea? can you think about millions of years before the bible got published? how can you discredit zeus or jewish or muslim or any other greek or indian or oriental beliefs. they were out there first .religion is a brain washing tool and your proof.
@kathy160 God created science, you goofball. I noticed you removed the comment about polio. If we just evolved randomly, there would be no order to observe, no design to figure out. You saying that Christians don't believe in science is just another lie the ignorant and dishonest left continues to peddle. Most of the great achievements in science have come from Christians. Practically all the positive advancements in history have happened in countries where the Bible was revered.
@revhowardgoss lmfao how can you spout bullshit like that? achievements like witch burnings, inquisitions, and crusades? yup defiantly all positive advancements.
@ELEMENTSFAN666 The witch burnings, if they happened at all, were isolated events by people not acting as Christians. When you act outside of the word of God, you are automatically disqualified as a Christian. At any rate they are seized upon and overhyped by the left, magnified, distorted, and used as a club to beat all Christians. The inquisitions happened in a time when the Bible was not available to the masses, the so called church was corrupted as a result, just as many churches are today.
@revhowardgoss lmao it did happen they hung 19 innocent people these events were not isolated they killed allot more in Europe , read up on your history its sad that you know so little, and i had no idea there was an automatic loss of faith clause in the christian covenant, so your pretty much saying if you don't follow the bible 100% then your not christian? then by that standard most if not all of the "christian" population is not "christian".
@ELEMENTSFAN666 Wow the list of examples you gave was astounding. I am STILL trying to make my way through it. NOT! Yes there is a loss of faith clause;just because you didn't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That only proves your ignorance on yet another subject. Even the Bible speaks about false Christians. They are the ones who try to liberalize Christianity.The entire Catholic church falls into that category. So anything they did cannot be pinned on true Christianity.
@revhowardgoss bill gates a agnostic,philanthropist,entrepenuer gave hundreds of millions of dollars to the world for the people that need.. invented what you are using to type shit with ..right now.!!!!!!! revhoward you have nothing but hate to give to this world.. you are spewing hate for anything that isnt christians... atheists doesnt believe in any religion but see the humans as the same, no matter what mental ideas they have.. we dont hate muslims, catholics,christians, jews. you do.
@kathy160 Yeah and the reason they were in need was they don't live by the Bible. They were too lazy to provide for themselves. They expected the government to provide free handouts, while they sit around and brag about how smart they are. Just like most Democrats. What are you going to do when the workers and producers quit paying your way?
@revhowardgoss lol. republicans like david barton gave you a libotomy. just remember your not rich and your not gaining by giving to the rich. jesus gave to the poor. apperently you need to learn your religion. you have internet which shows you have more than most poor americans. blacks finally got freedom in the 1960s which means they are finally getting freedom.. no thanks to you. you are the problem in UNITED states
@kathy160 You are a liar. I never heard of David Barton until recently. Jesus never said for the government to steal people's money under threat of imprisonment and give it to welfare queens and deadbeat communist cockroaches , thereby insuring the politicians' re-election.. You people are always generous with other peoples' money. I know the Bible forwards and backwards. That's how I know what you espouse is evil and destructive. The reason blacks are free is because of Christian abolitionists.
@revhowardgoss lol your a joke. i type for a equal view, you type for a one sided view. you honestly sound like this country need racism back to help the you. but this country is founded on a global economy. like i said your spam.. just go lick your bible.
@kathy160 You accuse others of doing what you are doing. That is a liberal trick. YOU ARE A LIAR. I know that charge doesn't bother liberals because they have no morals. It is true just the same.No, this country is not founded on a global economy. What a stupid statement.
@revhowardgoss im not a liar i have reasonable world facts...you have a one world view. muslim religion is older then yours so how can you discredit them? or would you prefer to insult me instead??
@kathy160 Once again, you are a liar. The Muslims were started in the 500s. That' about 500 years after Christianity. When I say you are a liar, it is not an insult, It is a fact.
What a sad case this woman and people like her are. She is attempting to argue with a man who owns a multitude of original documents related to our nation's early history and writings from the founders themselves, by simply referencing false and revisionist historians that truly have an agenda to exclude the mention of God in the public sphere. Was that a straw-man in her pocket or was she just glad to see failure? WAH, WAh, Wah...
ReadPsalms1 2 weeks ago
omg (pardon the pun) little girl, what did you get yourself into? LOL
backyardcapitalist 2 weeks ago
Barton! run for president!
nitewolf89 1 month ago
@nitewolf89 Please tell me you're kidding?
OwnedIRLK 1 month ago
@OwnedIRLK nope
nitewolf89 1 month ago
Art. 11.
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
Draugh39 1 month ago
David Barton is just another republican religious right member who is trying to turn the tabels to make the atheists and freedom from religion foundation look like the bad guys. when in reality David Barton and Lee Strobel are both religious extremists who are trying to sway the debate by giving David Barton more air time
evolutionist123 2 months ago
this woman is so stupid!
gerinja 2 months ago
"While the various Scenes of the War, in which I have experienced the timely aid of the Militia of Philadelphia, recur to my mind, my ardent prayer ascends to Heaven that they may long enjoy the blessings of that Peace which has been obtained by the divine benediction on our common exertions."- George Washington December 12, 1783
1angrywhite 2 months ago
@1angrywhite George Washington was a Christian; congratulations, you have now been promoted from Captain obvious to Lt. Colonel obvious. In other startling revelations, the sky is blue and wild bears crap in the woods.
RebelWrestler45 2 months ago
@RebelWrestler45 Yes, they ruined a perfect dick when they put ears on you.
1angrywhite 2 months ago
@1angrywhite No, I'm really just more of an asshole; but that's better than being an ignorant bigot. David Barton is a revisionist; he does not deserve to be called a historian. This country was founded upon secular Enlightenment philosophy, and established upon a secular constitution.
RebelWrestler45 2 months ago
@RebelWrestler45 You don't get to rewrite history either dick sucker. People don't get to choose their nick names; you will not be the first. These are left to the perception of others, and I say you are a malignant sliver of flea jizz. hahahahah! FU-Q and Merry Shitmas. restle my nuts........
1angrywhite 2 months ago
@1angrywhite I'm not attempting to rewrite history; it is demonstrable fact that the the US is a secular nation, founded upon secular philosophy. Barton is an agent of misinformation; using kindergarten reasoning, unsubstantiated correlation, and straight up lies, of the ilk that would make even Michael Moore blush, to propagate his version of bronze age mythology.
RebelWrestler45 2 months ago
@RebelWrestler45 I don't have the time to waste on you. You know that this place was founded by people of one God, looking upward to the same God. Documents speak of this God, and monuments speak to the same God. The only reason it isn't mentioned is because the Anglican Church had pissed off many in the colonies and God existed without question. Prayer opened congressional meetings and none boycotted it. Even paint can be wet without a sign. Of course your pants would be wet.
1angrywhite 1 month ago
@1angrywhite This country was founded by a collection of individuals, many of whom were not Christians, but deists. The Constitution says nothing of any god (much less a Christian god), except in specific exclusionary terms via the 1st amendment. Do we have a Christian heritage in this country? Of course, nobody would deny that; but we are a secular nation, founded upon secular ideology; NOT the Bible or 'Christian morality'.
RebelWrestler45 1 month ago
@RebelWrestler45 Make two lists, one of Christians and another of Deists and then get back to me. Both douche! Not just the popular deists that you have memorized. Learn something new and learn to capitalize God, the same as you would Allah.
1angrywhite 1 month ago
@1angrywhite Alexander Hamilton, Roger Sherman, John Witherspoon, Abraham Baldwin, Frederick A. Muhlenberg, Benjamin Rush, Charles Carroll, John Qunicy Adams, Samuel Adams, Patrick Henry, James Wilson, John Jay, Jacob Broom, John Dickinson, John Hancock, George Mason, Gouverneur Morris, George Washington, John Adams and others all were Christians.
Thomas Paine, Ethan Allen, Benjamin Franklin were Deists.
We were founded predominately by Christians. Deism was almost non-existent anyway.
bRizzle2009100 1 month ago
Do atheist have anyone better to defend them?
AABREU80 2 months ago
The fact is Christianity is here to stay. Wether people want to acknowledge christianity or not the fact is it has set the standard for many things in our world today. you can try and take what ever text you want out of its context but the truth will always prevail. Atheist have put so much effort into disproving Christianity that all atheist have done is show the world how strong and accurate the Gospels really are. God bless you all.
AABREU80 2 months ago
@AABREU80 Unfortunately your first assertion is correct; bronze age monotheistic mythology is here to stay. It has set the standards for genocide, torture, and theft. The gospels are not 'accurate' in any sense of the word; they are neither historical, nor do they provide any original moral precepts.
RebelWrestler45 2 months ago
@AABREU80 Atheists don’t need to spend a moment trying to “disprove christianity.” All we do is show the absurdity of religions. Tell us in what context this is moral behavior: “Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses” 1 Samuel 15:2-3.
max2right 2 months ago
Yes the first amendment restricts the government from establishing a religion. Among other things it wisely keeps religious dogma out of public schools. I don’t share your opinion that the Adams quotes are fake. Are the other quotes I put up also fake?
max2right 2 months ago
@max2right (1) "Yes the first amendment restricts the government from establishing a religion. Among other things it wisely keeps religious dogma out of public schools."
First Amendment- "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
It restricts Congress from passing a law establishing a national religion and restricting religious activity. I don't see anywhere where it says anything about schools.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
@bRizzle2009100 The United States Supreme Court has ruled on that. It is settled law re affirmed many times in subsequent decisions. The Establishment Clause prohibits the teaching of any religious dogma in public schools. Do you work at not thinking?
max2right 2 months ago
@max2right 1.) The U.S. Court prior to 1962 had ruled on religious instruction in schools before and held them to be constitutional. The Court violated over 150 years of precedent when it made this decision. Just look at the Engel v. Vitale case. No precedents were listed. But lets forget about the Court.
The Court can rule that the Earth is flat. Does that make it right? Lets look at what the Constitution says instead of what the Court tells us it says.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
@max2right 2.) "Congress shall make no law..."
Obviously a restriction on Congress. This is prohibiting Congress, the legislative branch of the federal government, from passing a law (which is what its designed to do, pass laws).
"...respecting an establishment of religion..."
Establishing a national religion or a state run church as they had in the English colonies.
"...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Can't restrict individual religious activities.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
@max2right 3.) So it's clear that the First Amendment puts a restriction on Congress and Congress only. I don't understand how you can twist the word Congress to mean states, government employees, schools, individuals etc. Congress is prohibited from establishing a national religion or state run church and restricting the religious activities of individuals.That is all. To suggest anything more would be to add words that aren't there.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
@bRizzle2009100 In our democratic republic it’s the congress that makes all federal laws and it’s the federal court system that applies the laws so of course the Constitution addresses only the congress. The courts have decided the issue. We have a secular government as the constitution requires. I twisted no words. It is illegal to teach any religious dogna in public schools isn't it? Not my twisting is it?
max2right 2 months ago
@max2right "Congress shall make no law..." How does "Congress" mean states, government employees, teachers, public schools etc? It says Congress cannot pass a law that establishes a national religion. So a law has to be passed in order to violate the Constitution correct? Saying that "Congress" somehow means teachers, public schools, states etc IS twisting the words.
The Courts can rule that the Sun revolves around the Earth. It doesn't change what reality is OR what the Constitution says.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
@bRizzle2009100 You apparently have no concept of how a democratic republic form of government works. No matter what you want to believe the separation of church and state is the universally accepted law in this country. One cannot legally teach religious dogma in schools or use public property or funds for religious purposes. In this sense it’s still a free country so you are free to work at changing the law. I’ll wish you bad luck all the way.
max2right 1 month ago
@max2right "You apparently have no concept of how a democratic republic form of government works."
I have a pretty good concept on how our republic works. All you have to do is look at our Constitution. It says with regarding religion "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." You have still yet to prove to me how the word "Congress" means state governments, public schools, government employees, teachers, etc.
bRizzle2009100 1 month ago
@bRizzle2009100 What you seem unable to grasp is that all federal laws are made by congress. State laws are made by state government and cannot supersede federal laws and local laws passed by city governments cannot supersede either state or federal. Therefor when congress is prohibited from making a law all other jurisdictions are also prohibited. It’s all in the Constitution.
max2right 1 month ago
@bRizzle2009100 “You have still yet to prove to me how the word "Congress" means state governments, public schools, government employees, teachers, etc.”
And where on earth did you get the idea that public schools, government employees or teachers make laws?
max2right 1 month ago
@max2right Right. Thats exactly my point. Nothing in the First Amendment restricts anything else but the U.S. Congress. It doesn't restrict public schools, teachers, government employees, states etc. When someone says the First Amendment restricts the teaching of religious instruction in schools, whether they're a public or private citizen, they can't point to any words where it says it.
Now I hope you see. How can an individual or public school make laws? Thats exactly the point.
bRizzle2009100 1 month ago
@bRizzle2009100 What can I say? You just don’t or won’t understand what most Christians and even the Christian group of lawyers organized to fight for the teaching of religious dogma in public schools understands. The court has ruled. You may think it’s wrong but until there is a reversal of that decision it stands as a monument to freedom from religious oppression. It protects us all.
max2right 1 month ago
@max2right So you're acknowledging that the U.S. Constitution doesn't prohibit religious instruction in schools. Your argument rests on what the U.S. Supreme Court says. The judicial branch enforces the laws that are already on the books, they don't pass laws. So for them to say that voluntary prayer or religious instruction in public schools is unconstitutional that means it has to be in the Constitution correct? But you just admitted to me that its not. So where is this law that says that?
bRizzle2009100 1 month ago
@bRizzle Can you not understand? With great wisdom the founders of this nation divided the government into three equal branches. They knew that changing times would require interpretations of the laws. As the law stands public money and property cannot be used for religious purposes. It’s settled the law and, as I said, it protects both you and I from religious persecution. Would you want your children indoctrinated with religious dogma other than the one you believe in?
max2right 1 month ago
@max2right 1.) "With great wisdom the founders of this nation divided the government into three equal branches."
The branches of govt are not equal. The legislative was designed to be the strongest bc it was closest to the ppl. The judicial was the farthest from the ppl so it was the weakest of the 3. Read Federalist #78 on the judiciary: "the judiciary is beyond comparison the weakest of the three departments of power." They are not "co-equal" and never have been.
bRizzle2009100 1 month ago
@max2right 2.) "They knew that changing times would require interpretations of the laws."
The founders were in favor of interpreting the law based on its original intent and not an evolving or "living constitution" interpretation. That philosophy didn't come about until the late 19th century when Christopher Columbus Langdell applied the theory of evolution to a change in the law. That if mankind evolves, the law must evolve with mankind. That was not apart of the intent of the founders.
bRizzle2009100 1 month ago
@max2right 3.) "As the law stands public money and property cannot be used for religious purposes."
Really? What law was passed by Congress that says that?
By the way, Jefferson as president used federal money for religious purposes for the indians. Guess Jefferson didn't know what he was doing huh? Look up Jefferson's treaty with the Kaskaskia Indians.
bRizzle2009100 1 month ago
@bRizzle2009100 Chapter 1 History of the ancient world begins like this: After God in the beginning had created the heavens and the earth etc...
This book was part of the curriculum offered at Virginia Military Institute. No apology made for the belief whatsoever. Some have been duped by professors who hate God into rewriting history. They take the liberty of robbing me of the planet Pluto like it is nothing and ignore common sense when you place it before them.
1angrywhite 1 month ago
@1angrywhite I am not familiar with that book. Can you give me some more information on it?
In the last 50 years or so we have seen a great distortion of history. The history we have learned and our parents have learned is not the history that was taught to previous generations yes. I don't see how your reference to Pluto is relevant thought. Maybe you can enlighten me as to what you are speaking of.
bRizzle2009100 1 month ago
@bRizzle2009100 That's funny. Inside joke about science and how flawed science is revised at will, without apology. Not relevant to this unless it gets to the Bible. The book is "Weber's outlines of universal history," It is one in my collection.
It won;t allow me to post the url.
1angrywhite 1 month ago
@1angrywhite I looked the book up and its author. It was published in the 1850's! Thats amazing. Its author was an accredited historian at the time. The book was used in public schools too. The entire first page of the book is basically the early history of the Bible and it was taught in schools. Thats pretty awesome. Very different from the books we read nowadays.
bRizzle2009100 1 month ago
@bRizzle2009100 I know. It is appalling to me, that the Supreme Court and the Congress allowed such a book to exist in this God free nation! ;)
1angrywhite 1 month ago
@bRizzle2009100 Due process clause of the 14th Amendment you bumbling idiot; the Bill of Rights also applies to state governments and local municipalities. There are several supreme court cases that reinforce this. Do your research kid.
RebelWrestler45 1 month ago
@max2right (2) Its not about whether its an opinion if they are or not. If you can't trace the quotes back to an original letter or writing by Adams or somebody else in the founding era then it is fake. I told you where it came from. The quotes are fake.
I addressed the other quotes Im pretty sure. The Jefferson one is commonly taken out of context. Jefferson didn't question the existence of God. He firmly believed in the existence of an eternal Creator.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
@bRizzle2009100 I’ve no intent to post what is untrue. I will take the time to research the quotes attributed to Adams before I use them again. This conversation is not about what any of the founding fathers believed. In essence it’s about what they didn’t believe and clearly Jefferson did not believe christian dogma. He even wrote his version of a bible eliminating all mention of Jesus. And the majority of them didn’t believe our government should support any religion. .
max2right 2 months ago
Adams again- God is an essence we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of there will never be any liberal science." Ben Franklin -I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies." and “to follow by faith alone is to follow blindly.”
max2right 2 months ago
James Madison -“Separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe.” “Question with boldness even the existence of god because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear” Thomas Jefferson,. John Adams- The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammadan nation
max2right 2 months ago
@max2right The 'separation of church and state' means that the federal govt cannot interfere with religious activity or establish a national religion. This reveled in the First Amendment, "Congress shall make no law..." Restricts the federal govt.
Both the Adams quotes you have up there are fakes. U might want to check them out. One is parts of an 1820 & 1825 letters put together and the other is taken from a treaty in which the State Dept says that particular article doesnt exist.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
I believe she got annihilated. Barton schooled her then backed his lesson up with the original sources. Class dismissed.
fatheremmons85 2 months ago
@fatheremmons85 Actually, that was not the case at all. The Treaty of Tripoli clearly states, "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion", regardless if you read on. Barton tried twisting it's words. The references of "God", "Creator", and "Divine Providence" in the Declaration of Independence, in no such way, go above Amendment 1 of The Constitution.
HydrogenLovesHelium 2 months ago
@fatheremmons85 He failed to acknowledged that Thomas Jefferson was a Deist who opposed orthodox Christianity.
HydrogenLovesHelium 2 months ago
@HydrogenLovesHelium I was mainly talking about this exchange and how it APPEARED that she seemed to be frustrated and couldnt come back, even if he did twist his words to his advantage. And I think everybody knows where TJ stood on the issues of christianity and God. "I have sworn upon the great altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." I think that would include religion.
fatheremmons85 2 months ago
@HydrogenLovesHelium I've even read things where Barton suggested that TJ omitted the words of Jesus and the miracles in the Bible so the Native Americans would be able to grasp the idea of Christianity easier without all the supernatural stuff. His point being that this action wasn't any suggestion of TJ's disbelief in the supernatural, but merely an attempt to help the Indians. First time I'd ever heard that idea. Got me questioning his reliability.
fatheremmons85 2 months ago
@fatheremmons85 If u get a copy of the original reprints of Jefferson's book by the Library of Congress in the early 1900's, you'll see the Library of Congress has an introduction to the book in which it states that Jefferson did in fact create this book for the Indians. David Barton is correct. All you have to do is go on the Library of Congress' website and look at the original reprints.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
@bRizzle2009100 Very interesting. Did Jefferson do this solely for the purpose of giving them to the Indians?
fatheremmons85 2 months ago
@fatheremmons85 Well no. He did it for his own personal reasons as well. Jefferson liked to read stuff on moral philosophy a lot (he really read just about any topic u can think of). He thought Jesus' moral teachings were the best mankind had ever seen. Every night before he went to bed he would read something moral and the most often thing he read was his book "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth". He wanted to be able to read and appreciate the moral philosophy of Jesus.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
@bRizzle2009100 Just so I have this right, TJ did not believe Jesus performed miracles or was the Son of God, but merely a man of good moral standing? From things I've read and seen, that is the claim. If so, then wouldn't this raise a question on his judgement? If you think Jesus was the most morally sound man in history but was not the Son of God or a miracle worker, then you are calling Jesus a liar because these claims are made by Jesus in the Bible.
fatheremmons85 2 months ago
@bRizzle2009100 When speaking of Jesus, and knowing what is known about him, it would be contradictory to say he was/is the most moral man in history, but then deny certain characteristics about him that would make him "supernatural". By taking that stand you are basically saying that Jesus lied about being be the Son of God and doing miracles, which would in turn call into question his morality and integrity. I'm just trying to line this all out so don't be offended.
fatheremmons85 2 months ago
@fatheremmons85 (1) Well now we're getting into Jefferson's religious beliefs and what he thought of Jesus and Christianity. Jefferson's beliefs cannot be sized up in a word like "Christian" "Deist" or "Unitarian". He really derived his beliefs from many different sources. He accepted some Christian doctrine, some Deistic, some Unitarian, naturalistic, etc. His beliefs were very unorthodox for the time. One of things he believed was that Jesus never claimed to be Divine...
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
@fatheremmons85 (2) ...He was very good friends with Joseph Priestly who was a Unitarian minister. Jefferson believed that priests and ecclesiastical leaders overtime re-worded and re-wrote the Bible to fit there own views. As a result many things were put in there that were never actually done or said. He believed that Jesus never actually claimed to be Divine or performed any miracles and that those things were added later. He called himself a "disciple" of Jesus' moral teachings.....
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
@fatheremmons85 (3)..... but never actually believed in his Divinity nor the Trinity. Jefferson DID however, believe in God. He did believe that revelation came from God himself and that God intervened in the natural all the time. He prayed all the time. He went to church on Sundays. He even had his own prayer book he carried around with him. He helped start Sunday services in the Capital Building and attended them faithfully. He wasn't irreligious at all. He just had unorthodox spiritual views.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
@bRizzle2009100
it's quite likely that he might have done this to appease the religious, as he was a public figure dependent on being in favors of others; it's exactly the same way not in American politics, one must being openly theistic or never rise to power.
In terms of what Jefferson stated in personal letters to friends, he seemed to be very openly anti-religious in his private life, going as far as calling religion myths and fables, and the Biblical god a 3 headed monster
LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 2 months ago
@LadyAmaltheaUnicorn Well Jefferson was very personal about his religious beliefs. Not even his family knew exactly what he believed. He revealed it a few times to a few close friends & when he did he expressed belief in "Christianity" but his "version" of it was very different. His beliefs resembled closely to that of a "biblical Unitarian". He wasn't anti-religion. He gave to churches & Bible societies his whole life & according to family and friends was a regular attendee of Sunday services.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
@bRizzle2009100
This sounds like a Christian to you?
"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."
"We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication ."
LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 2 months ago
@LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 1) The first quote "I have recently... fables and mythology" is again not a real quote. It is attributed to an 1883 article and listed that it came from a "letter to Dr. Woods". It later appeared in a 1906 book. It does not leave a date or anything. The Library of Congress, Thomas Jefferson's Monticello and others say that this "letter" does not exist. No one knows where it came from. U should research these things before you get them from secular/atheist websites.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
@LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 2) The 2nd quote, "We discover... and fabrication." I cannot find any source for this quote at all. When I search the quite I get nothing but atheist websites who list the quote but do not provide a source. If you are going to list anything AT LEAST put a source. If it cannot be traced back to an original source then it must be FAKE until proven otherwise. Again, u have provided another fake quote.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
@bRizzle2009100
and
"I am a materialist; he takes the side of spiritualism; he [Jesus] preaches the efficacy of repentance towards forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it."
"this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."
among many. If this is a Christian, than I'm a Christian too
LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 2 months ago
@LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 3) Finally u list a quote that isn't fake!! Comes from a letter to William Short in 1820. There is nothing wrong with quote however. Jefferson states what he stated his entire life, that the moral precepts of Jesus are the most perfect anyone has ever preached. The "spirituality" Jefferson refers to is Jesus' Divinity. He did not believe Jesus claimed to be Divine in anyway, thus did not believe in his Divinity.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
@LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 4) This is a quote from John Adams. This comes from a letter written to Jefferson in 1817. The quote is commonly taken out of context. John Adams was reporting a conversation between to men he had heard. He was describing the conversation and he was disgusted by the religious bickering of the two men. See the next comment of the entire quote to see its context. Its too big to put in this one.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
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bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
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@LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 5) Here:
The Parson coolly replied "Cleverly! You would be the best Man in the World, if You had no Religion." Twenty times, in the course of my late Reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible Worlds, if there were no Religion in it.! ! !" But in this exclamati[on] I should have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
@LadyAmaltheaUnicorn 6) Well, I don't see what you were trying to prove here. You had 3 quotes from Jefferson 2 of them were fake. You had one from Adams which was completely taken out of context. You provided quotes from 2 of the founders & that means that the other 200+ founders were the same as them? Thats nonsense. Don't believe what u see on atheist & secular humanist websites my friend. I know you got many of your quotes from them bc no respectable historian uses the quotes u provided.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
She never gave any substance to any of her arguments. She spent all of her air time attacking David Barton and never providing any evidence for her arguments.
You know you have a liberal in a corner when they resort to individual attacks and get away from the substance.
bRizzle2009100 3 months ago
@bRizzle2009100 You have no idea what your talking about. There was full substance to her arguments. It was The Constitution along with many other aspects of US history, which you clearly do not understand. I know that because of your simplistic response. If I had more room to comment, I would explain in very full detail as to why David Barton lost the argument.
HydrogenLovesHelium 2 months ago
@HydrogenLovesHelium Message me why he was wrong and I will respond. I want to know what you have to say. I believe in freedom of expression and that healthy debate is good and that it brings out the truth.
bRizzle2009100 2 months ago
she got slammed hard
13craj 3 months ago
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HydrogenLovesHelium 2 months ago
Does David Barton have an agenda? yes
Is it an evil one? Definitely Not!
Is it a just agenda? Yes!
Should Christians back David Barton? YES!
PureChristian01 3 months ago 2
Yeah this was fucking painful to watch. She got destroyed.
jhaggerty93 3 months ago
@jhaggerty93 No, she won by miles. His argument was terribly weak, invalid, and distorted.
HydrogenLovesHelium 2 months ago
"Is the U.S. a Christian Nation?"
Still nope.
GalapagosPete 3 months ago
@GalapagosPete hahahahahaahhaha....i guess you are not a christian
MrJonathanRace 2 months ago
Wow, she was DOMINATED.
..Brutal
AntiHero2411 3 months ago
@AntiHero2411 Nah, David Barton made an embarrassment out of himself.
HydrogenLovesHelium 2 months ago
United States (forbidden explicitly under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, and implicitly in Article VI of the same document.) is NOT a Christian Nation. Separation of Church and State. Jesus is NOT mentioned by name in the Constitution. Jesus would not approve of Bldg. a nation on genocide of N. Americans. Simply Google keywords and educate yourselves. "God" is vague. The word "Jesus" or "We are a Christian Nation", not in Bible. Muslims, Hindus, Nordic; all have GOD(s).
CaptainJondlechit 3 months ago
As if this liberal broad does not have an agenda herself. She acts as if her left-wing organization has no agenda and therefore David Barton should not either. Did you notice that Barton never called her a name, but she resorted to sarcasitically syaing "Mr. Wall Builder"? He could have called her many things, including someone who thinks she needs to complain about virtually everything, but he never did.
rdj410 3 months ago
@rdj410 She, along with the FFRF, complains when people like Mr. Wall Builder twist, distort, and deny accurate US history, The Declaration of Independence, and Amendment 1 of The Constitution.
HydrogenLovesHelium 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
She can't even talk with assurance
reservist7 3 months ago
Who brought that lady here?
reservist7 3 months ago
@reservist7
Uh there prison system brought her here. Take a look in the background of her in the video. I think it explains a lot.
mredstriumph 3 months ago
That lesbian needs to get that stick out off her ass, go David Barton
DrUNk00FoX 3 months ago
@DrUNk00FoX She's married to Dan Barker, a former pastor who came to his senses.
jacqueline716 3 months ago
David Barton is awesome here. The lesbian is an embarrassment.
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
@revhoward
YEAH
America is and will always be a christian nation
erician1000 4 months ago
@DrUNk00FoX
you are correct sir
DrUNk00FoX 3 months ago
@erician1000 That stupid lesbian, 52 to 53 percent of americans go to church regularly.
erician1000 3 months ago
@erician1000 Except the Treaty of Tripoli explicitly states that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Oh, and there's the separation of church and state. And the Constitution doesn't mention God, Jesus Christ, or anything vaguely religious.
jacqueline716 3 months ago
@jacqueline716
people like you are ruining consevative america.. The founding fathers wanted a free nation with freedom of religion but with judeochristian values and doctrines. Then how can you explain that every american president was/is a christian, that the president has to put his/her hand on the bible at the inauguration and that one of our mottos is IN GOD WE TRUST..
erician1000 3 months ago
@erician1000 PS Kennedy who wasn't a bad president at the diplomatic level, ruined and tried to abolish these values etc. but he died and was punished.
erician1000 3 months ago
@erician1000 And Please stop trying to convert people into your liberal pro homosexual selfish atheist crap.. We all know a religious person is 3 times more likely than an atheist to do charitable actions and participate in local elections...
erician1000 3 months ago
@erician1000 The President doesn't HAVE to do that; Theodore Roosevelt did not use a Bible when taking the oath in 1901. John Quincy Adams swore on a book of law instead of the Bible. The motto "In God We Trust" was ADDED in 1956 just like "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance during the Cold War out of fear; the original motto was "e pluribus unum" (out of many, one).
Are you even American? You don't even know the basics!
jacqueline716 3 months ago
@erician1000 Even deist Founding Fathers like Thomas Jefferson said "There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites."
Another one by Benjamin Franklin: "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
jacqueline716 3 months ago
@jacqueline716 "Of all systems of morality,ancient or modern, which have come under my observation,none appear to be so pure as that of Jesus." --Thomas Jefferson to William Canby,1813
revhowardgoss 3 months ago
@revhowardgoss That's why Jefferson literally cut out all the supernatural aspects of the Bible, rejected the notion of Christ's divinity, took the good moral parts of Jesus' teachings, and ultimately compiled his own version called the "Jefferson Bible." Even back in a time when it was not socially acceptable to be anything but Christian, he managed to see beyond the irrationalities of Christianity.
jacqueline716 3 months ago
@jacqueline716 No, he didn't, stupid, he was trying to give the Indians a condensed version of Christianity to help convert them. "The reason that Christianity is the best friend of government is Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart."--President Thomas Jefferson.
revhowardgoss 3 months ago
@revhowardgoss FAIL. According to the Jefferson Encyclopedia, that quotation has not been found in any of the writings of Thomas Jefferson. In other words, it's a spurious quotation (you can look that word up in the dictionary since you're an ignoramus).
jacqueline716 3 months ago
@jacqueline716 'I have always said, and always will say, that the studious perusal of the Sacred Volume will make better citizens, better fathers, better husbands... the Bible makes the best people in the world."--President Thomas Jefferson
revhowardgoss 3 months ago
@revhowardgoss Wow, you really are thick. If you did simple research, you would find that the second quote too is unconfirmed and likely fake. Keep trying old man.
jacqueline716 3 months ago
@jacqueline716" The general principles on whichthe founders achieved independence, were the general principles of Christianity."--John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 28, 1813, The Adams-Jefferson Letters,ed, Lester J. Cappon,(Chapel Hill,NC; Univrsity of North Carolina Press,1959),volume 2, pp339-40.
revhowardgoss 3 months ago
@revhowardgoss Adams was a Unitarian and under his Presidency, the Treaty of Tripoli was signed, stating that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion." Do you really not have a thought of your own that you have to copy-paste quotes from Christian revisionist websites like that of David Barton? Go back to school and learn some critical thinking skills.
jacqueline716 3 months ago
@jacqueline716
Unitarian Universalists claim anyone who ever - even for a moment - questions divinity of Christ is a "Unitarian", then fail to realize that Unitarians in the past have virtually NO CONNECTION to new age Universalist Unitarian now.
With no morals, absolutes, or values that cannot be changed, rewritten, or ignored, & no judgement to answer (so they think) they lie, cheat, & sin with abandon & pretending there's no consequence. Reality= your judge here on Earth, God=next
mredstriumph 3 months ago
@revhowardgoss Specifically, that spurious quote appeared in David Barton's 1988 book The Myth of Separation, but was removed in his current book, Original Intent, in which he refined many of the lies found in his earlier book.
jacqueline716 3 months ago
@revhowardgoss You're an embarrassment for accusing someone of being a lesbian just because you dislike the person's opinion. David Barton's statements are intellectually bankrupt.
jacqueline716 3 months ago
@jacqueline716 Barton wiped the floor with that lezbo.
revhowardgoss 3 months ago
@revhowardgoss Why do you resort to ad hominem attacks (false ones at that!) instead of criticizing the person's actual argument? Of course, it must be because you have no rational defenses!
jacqueline716 3 months ago
@jacqueline716 To make you get your panties in a wad.
revhowardgoss 3 months ago
that woman is such a bitch
spongeicus 4 months ago
@spongeicus Why can't you come up with one rational argument to refute what Gaylor said? Instead, your comment shows how you have to resort to childish name-calling because you have no debating skills.
You're pathetic.
jacqueline716 4 months ago
what a stupid cunt hahahahah OWNED
thenfm 4 months ago
religion doesnt let human ideas develop, because its stuck in purgotory. god will cure cancer and god will cure aids. they dont believe in evolution or science which shows they have no progress. they are stuck in midevil times reading the other bibles because christianity wasnt even developed yet. they are fairy tale worshippers. just like greek mythology and catholics but they think they are better.
kathy160 4 months ago
@kathy160 You are a liar. God created science. You make no sense. Christianity was in existence way before medieval times. When do you think Christianity started?you're right, i don't comprehend how you can be so stupid.
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
@revhowardgoss lol real history question? what religion was first muslim or christianity? lol please prove your ignorance,,, better and easier jewish or christianity? do you know anything about history... because you truly look lke a christian puppet with no facts just brainwashing.
kathy160 4 months ago
@kathy160 Islam was formed by Mohammed who was born in 570A.D. Christianity was formed by Jesus Christ in 33 A.D. That makes Christianity AT LEAST 537 years older than Islam.The Jewish religion dates back to the time of Abraham. Now you know what a fact looks like.
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
@revhowardgoss did david barton give you those numbers also? because historians dont agree with those numbers either..... wow zues is the god ok im sorry for doubting you and your imaginary books. your so brainwashed. why dont you tell us how god made cancer a couple of years ago also? why dont you the historian tell us why he made only adam and eve and we are all incests through gods creations............theres so many questions you dont ask yourself and i wont because your a lost cause. hail s
kathy160 4 months ago
@kathy160 OK, what are the proper dates?
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
religion is a brain washing tool.. and was christianity alive when UNITED states was using black people as slaves? religion is a tool and republicans use it well. muslims didnt use balck people as slaves neither did catholics. people need to educate themselves. b4 they decide on religion on typing here. ths goes for revhowardbarton
kathy160 4 months ago
fact is christianity is a FAITH based book. not facts. united states is a country of freedom of religion. chirstians like barton is trying to turn back time and get less rights for blacks and people that arent christians. its a racist point of view. kkk vote only republican and burn the christian cross for many religious reasons like barton has.....
kathy160 4 months ago
@kathy160 You are a liar. He does not want less rights for anyone. You are a liar. And there is NOTHING more faith based than believing in evolution. That takes a massive amount of faith. It has not been proven. Don't even start with that trash. It is a theory, and a poor one, at that.
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
@revhowardgoss evolution is a scientific theory. lol, stop embarrassing yourself. adam and eve is a better theory? lol eve ate an apple. and killed all humans yet you dont believe in all humans .you still hate gays.
kathy160 4 months ago
@kathy160 You are still a liar.There is not one truth in your comment. Nowhere. Not even the part about the apple. The Bible doesn't say it was an apple.No humans were killed.I believe in all humans. I don't hate gays. You are a liar. Any money spent on any schooling you might have received was wasted. You are poorly educated.
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
@revhowardgoss your a joke. ive seen your page. you worship a racist mans words.... hence bryan fischer............. its like you read and listen but dont comprehend, your like david barton changing the meanings of every word of a sentence . your a joke. im done with you. your a empty factless personbut with faith based ignorance. you believe in a book with no facts... its a faith based book like a tooth fairy book. you must get giddy when santa comes to town.
kathy160 4 months ago
That lesbian was put to shame; God Bless Wallbuilders.
RepentAmerica454 4 months ago
republicans pay david barton to manipulate faith based votes. he makes christians a one idea party. hate muslims, jews, atheists, gays, non white. david barton is a marketing tool. religion is a tool and republicans use it well.
kathy160 4 months ago
@kathy160 Idiocy and dishonesty are also tools and the rent-a-mob leftists utilize them constantly.
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
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kathy160 4 months ago
I would have loved to see a healthy Christopher Hitchens destroy David Barton, Ann Gaylor did a decent job, but Baton is a charlatan who will not listen to reason, I think Hitchens' unabashed argument style and vast knowledge would be good to shut this man up!
calthopian 4 months ago
@calthopian Hitchens is nothing but a windjammer who likes nothing better than to hear his own gums bump together. Gaylor is a disgrace. Barton DEMOLISHED her. What part of ORIGINAL Founding father quotes do you not understand.? If George Washington were running for office today you would be trashing him, too.
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
christians and all other religions remind me of a childs mentality. your fed as a child there is a santa clause, tooth fairy, a guy in the sky... its not until you learn and rational thinking till you can disprove these mental deceptions. david barton uses religion to make millions and sway peoples ideas in politics. he is a so called professor in glenn becks school..lol. it a school for little republicans to hate democrats, muslims, jews, the not wealthy americans.
kathy160 4 months ago 8
@kathy160 Right, single celled organisms crawled out of the muck, developed lungs, grew hair, and became truck drivers? Now that's a REAL fairy tale. It takes a boatload of faith to believe in evolution.
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
@revhowardgoss so adam and eve is your story and there is no incest? do you fuck your sister now and say well christian ideology did it 2? lol.....it takes a gullible mind to believe in the bible. can you part the sea? can you think about millions of years before the bible got published? how can you discredit zeus or jewish or muslim or any other greek or indian or oriental beliefs. they were out there first .religion is a brain washing tool and your proof.
kathy160 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@kathy160 And YOU are a piece of work.
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
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kathy160 4 months ago
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kathy160 4 months ago
@kathy160 God created science, you goofball. I noticed you removed the comment about polio. If we just evolved randomly, there would be no order to observe, no design to figure out. You saying that Christians don't believe in science is just another lie the ignorant and dishonest left continues to peddle. Most of the great achievements in science have come from Christians. Practically all the positive advancements in history have happened in countries where the Bible was revered.
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
@revhowardgoss lmfao how can you spout bullshit like that? achievements like witch burnings, inquisitions, and crusades? yup defiantly all positive advancements.
ELEMENTSFAN666 4 months ago
@ELEMENTSFAN666 The witch burnings, if they happened at all, were isolated events by people not acting as Christians. When you act outside of the word of God, you are automatically disqualified as a Christian. At any rate they are seized upon and overhyped by the left, magnified, distorted, and used as a club to beat all Christians. The inquisitions happened in a time when the Bible was not available to the masses, the so called church was corrupted as a result, just as many churches are today.
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
@revhowardgoss lmao it did happen they hung 19 innocent people these events were not isolated they killed allot more in Europe , read up on your history its sad that you know so little, and i had no idea there was an automatic loss of faith clause in the christian covenant, so your pretty much saying if you don't follow the bible 100% then your not christian? then by that standard most if not all of the "christian" population is not "christian".
ELEMENTSFAN666 4 months ago
@ELEMENTSFAN666 Wow the list of examples you gave was astounding. I am STILL trying to make my way through it. NOT! Yes there is a loss of faith clause;just because you didn't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That only proves your ignorance on yet another subject. Even the Bible speaks about false Christians. They are the ones who try to liberalize Christianity.The entire Catholic church falls into that category. So anything they did cannot be pinned on true Christianity.
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
@revhowardgoss bill gates a agnostic,philanthropist,entrepenuer gave hundreds of millions of dollars to the world for the people that need.. invented what you are using to type shit with ..right now.!!!!!!! revhoward you have nothing but hate to give to this world.. you are spewing hate for anything that isnt christians... atheists doesnt believe in any religion but see the humans as the same, no matter what mental ideas they have.. we dont hate muslims, catholics,christians, jews. you do.
kathy160 4 months ago
@kathy160 Yeah and the reason they were in need was they don't live by the Bible. They were too lazy to provide for themselves. They expected the government to provide free handouts, while they sit around and brag about how smart they are. Just like most Democrats. What are you going to do when the workers and producers quit paying your way?
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
@revhowardgoss lol. republicans like david barton gave you a libotomy. just remember your not rich and your not gaining by giving to the rich. jesus gave to the poor. apperently you need to learn your religion. you have internet which shows you have more than most poor americans. blacks finally got freedom in the 1960s which means they are finally getting freedom.. no thanks to you. you are the problem in UNITED states
kathy160 4 months ago
@kathy160 You are a liar. I never heard of David Barton until recently. Jesus never said for the government to steal people's money under threat of imprisonment and give it to welfare queens and deadbeat communist cockroaches , thereby insuring the politicians' re-election.. You people are always generous with other peoples' money. I know the Bible forwards and backwards. That's how I know what you espouse is evil and destructive. The reason blacks are free is because of Christian abolitionists.
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
@revhowardgoss lol your a joke. i type for a equal view, you type for a one sided view. you honestly sound like this country need racism back to help the you. but this country is founded on a global economy. like i said your spam.. just go lick your bible.
kathy160 4 months ago
@kathy160 read what i have typed or you cant read... and respond with facts not petty insults.
kathy160 4 months ago
@kathy160 I have nailed your butt to the wall. I have read every one of your insane comments. They are not. worthy of response.
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
@kathy160 You accuse others of doing what you are doing. That is a liberal trick. YOU ARE A LIAR. I know that charge doesn't bother liberals because they have no morals. It is true just the same.No, this country is not founded on a global economy. What a stupid statement.
revhowardgoss 4 months ago
@revhowardgoss im not a liar i have reasonable world facts...you have a one world view. muslim religion is older then yours so how can you discredit them? or would you prefer to insult me instead??
kathy160 4 months ago
@kathy160 Once again, you are a liar. The Muslims were started in the 500s. That' about 500 years after Christianity. When I say you are a liar, it is not an insult, It is a fact.
revhowardgoss 4 months ago