Starcraft 2 Beta: 1 Battle cruiser vs 13 Marines

[devastator06]

those marines didnt even stim.

[sangyuni96]

MASS FEEDBACK GO

[SolidSoul40373]

62 people cant beat marines :(

[wendepic]

1 bc costs more that 13 marines. Make it balanced and see after.

[SuCong]

Battlecruiser is slower and can't escape from marines. It is slower to build as starport is more expensive than barracks. The marines can be microed, by pulling back damaged ones back; the battlecruiser has no micro to do.

The slowness makes it incapable of retreat, sneak attack (it would be caught up and killed), reinforce, or simply keep up with the rest of the army. In fact it would slow everything down.

With unimpressive damage, poor range, high cost, it is one of the worst Terran unit.

[CerberusT93]

@SuCong PFFFFTTT!!! HAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!! *COUGH! COUGH!... cough!*

*clears throat* Interesting usage of the word "worst" there. Sure BCs are not the best option for whipping up a side order of laser-fried marines, but they're the best option for countering mech style play in a TvT and they even defeat carriers/motherships in most straight up clashes with minimal casualties. And BCs are such luvable units too ^_^

and may i ask how a yomato's 300 damage is not considered impressive damage to you?

[makuta12]

@CerberusT93 Actually they are amazing options for whipping up a side order of laser-fried marines. Think about this. It takes 13 marines to kill 1 battlecruiser. 26 marines to kill 2. 52 to kill 4 and so on. That means that to kill 16 battlecruisers you would need 200 marines. I hope everybody sees the problem in that, workers. Supply-wise battlecruisers rape marines. Cost-wise no But seriously who will have 200 marines without opponent having 33 battlecruisers?

[CerberusT93]

@makuta12 haha ^_^, thanks. and you have a great point there, fewer supply depots are needed so in terms of mineral cost in supply depots and the marines themselves, BCs are cheaper. ^_^

I wonder what laser-fried marines taste like anyway ¬.¬...

[CerberusT93]

@makuta12 ooh! ooh! ooh! check this out! =D

/watch?v=9BByl26nKY0&feature=r­elated

[makuta12]

@CerberusT93 Haha yes, same deal as max thor/stalker/immortal/ vs zealot/ling/roach The zealot ling roach is extremely cost effective vs those 3 however. Due to supply cap you can acctually never get equal cost in units. Meaning you have to fight against him with like 10000 minerals at a time vs 20000 minerals/10000 gas.

[CerberusT93]

@makuta12 lol, so true. you'd have to go through an entire expansion worth of minerals in order to find that kind of army though xD.

[makuta12]

@CerberusT93 Yes that's the problem with carriers/ultras/battlecruisers­. Sure they can be really good unless the only unit the opponent has is the counter however you need 3+ bases to sustain production because they're so damn F***ing expensive.

[rocksparadox]

@SuCong Stick to playing tower defense.

[SuCong]

@rocksparadox Stick to playing Bronze league.

[rocksparadox]

@SuCong Hahah TOWER DEFENSE LOSER, before the reset I was high gold, thank you very bitch, eh much.

[SuCong]

@rocksparadox Your attitude deserves you no better than bronze. And I'm diamond.

[rocksparadox]

@SuCong You probably are, you 2d personality.

Dream on................

[PushandillPushback]

they didnt even stim... i think 10 marines, with stim and one medivac could tear a battle cruiser appart.

[makuta12]

@PushandillPushback Well of course, with the additional gas cost of the medivac they would cost more supply and money than the battlecruiser. Also never send a battlecruiser alone you need some kind of defence. like ravens for vikings and siege tanks vs marines.

[annoyerboka]

1 bc = 8 marine...

[tylernewton20000]

@annoyerboka No, it will take mroe than that, because treguardless of 8 dying, there were still 13 marine attacking it at one point.

[H3c70rit0]

omg the BC died!

[Bonebite]

its more to it then 13 marines kill a bc...bc are a flying units and they will "stack" unto each others which will alow more of them to shoot on the enemy in a battle with 200 supply bc vs 200 supply marines. And 13 supply marines take up more supply then 1 bc... quite alot more

so go cattlebruiser!!

[Capeau]

yes its worth the cost it flies and got a yamoto gun, also lots of marines are not good most of the time because they keep blocking eachother so its impossible to attack with all of them at once

[KeksdosemitKaffee]

@Capeau It is possible, just let them get near the enemys and then attack

[Capeau]

@KeksdosemitKaffee

sure but by then half your troops are dead

[KeksdosemitKaffee]

@Capeau not if you stim :)

[Capeau]

@Capeau

true

[1point61803]

BCs got over nerfed so they suck even more now.  Waste of 300 gas and takes forever to make. Which is why you see brood lords but no BCs in pro games.

[mase598]

i say marines beat bc if you buy afew medics for em all you gotta do is use medic proper and it helps but alot of people dont think of this have 2 medics in front of army and afew in back and actully offence in middle and use the 2 medics as bait a.k.a a meat shield cause they take alot of hits often and just heal up then i beat the campain lvl with the laser drill with like 15 marauders and 20 medics doing that it was fun i killed all the protoss and it ended door had 7k hp left it was funny

[GROGOLOG]

@mase598 you dont get medics in multiplayer

[MrDEVILMAN15]

u would think a rocket or 2 would blow up a man

[winscar]

The BC should have ran away from the rines and microed over a ledge. It's not always about unit numbers, it's the tactics used by the player. I'm just saying.

[NukeSocks]

@winscar Battlecruisers are sooo slow. If the Terran player with Marines decided not to engage or to engage on better ground, they could easily do so.

Plus, cliff advantage doesn't carry over to attacking air.

[Stefan773]

@winscar yeah that rapes when i play on a bronze acc and go BC rush, cant do nothing with BC on edge, all u gotta do is move the BC to a little island and mule repair

[SPARTAIN088]

the battlecruiser failed misserabely

[xktwnxl4zlx213]

well obviously 1 BC could take out 10 marines without no upgrades. cool!

[Zookerman1232]

Those marines should have been stimmed.

[deathnube99]

steampack? l

[badpanda84]

I wonder how many marine it would take to kill 2 batlecrusiers

You would think the answer would be 26 but it probably isnt

[Superfrycook]

1 BC(fully uprgraded) vs. 13 marines. BC wins.

[PopcornColonelx]

OP terran

[Anotherness]

did the battlecruiser get longer after beta

[gameboy772]

50 tanks vs 1 BC. Is it worth the cost? You decide

[BACKWARDSgameREVIEWS]

@gameboy772 What tanks can't attack air?

[Paggee]

Is a BattleCruiser worth the cost? Yeah but marines are a fuckin counter to it.

[MrVladdavid]

?!?!?!?!

[Kox300]

Yeah, go on, try to shoot down the god damn SPACE SHIP!

[ootter07]

didn't take into consideration the cost or time to tech up to bc it seems or the time it takes to build a single bc as opposed to 4-6 or 8-12 marines

marine spam wins almost every game I see played hands down stim pack and omg check it out! you win the game with a T1 unit that costs 50 minerals WHAT SKILL! can blizzard get the fuck on balancing? hydra is a stalker with less then half the health of a stalker that takes longer to get then a stalker.. that has blink... balance has been achieved! XD

[nerdunit]

@ootter07 great feedback but to add something into consideration....zerg units are manufactured faster then any other race. Also, take into account that hydras can be spawned more than one unit at a time because of the hatchery. My recommendation is expanding very early and gaining map control. A zerg player just won the intel $80k tourney. He beat a terran player for the grand prize =)

[ootter07]

@nerdunit yeah I know fruit was awesome... he was the only one that could think outside the box enough to do so... if I expand early that leaves me even more defenseless for the first rush which always happens... stacking up 300 minerals and stopping production on every level tends to choke you out unless you aren't rushed very early on which tends to be the case almost everytime... either you have a Z rush or a marine rush since they are both easy to do... and z's 2 shot lings. fruit is a god

[redgamma28]

@ootter07 lol marine spam? get banelings noob. get colossi noob. get siege tank noob. get high templar noob.

[JpeltakaCyberBeast]

@ootter07 ok hydras have about double the dps and do more damage to non armored then stalkers. an army of hydras beats an army of stalkers, plus theyre cheaper. and if your oppnent is massing stalkers mass lings or roaches jesus tits whats wrong with you. and wtf seriously if you get a battlecruiser against another terran your an idiot . 1 viking can kill infinite battlecruisers without yamato

[Stefan773]

@JpeltakaCyberBeast you obviously have never played a very very late game TvT and are probably shit and facing shitty opponents. and when battle cruisers get in numbers, not just does their damage and survivalbility increase astranomically, but also the number of yamatos that you can use will do some SERIOUS damage to your opponent, even if you use it vs their vikings. Battlecruisers werent meant to be massed so they could get owned by vikings, but so they can yomato their tank line mainly.

[JpeltakaCyberBeast]

@Stefan773 um... your bronze so dont talk shit noob. im a diamond player and i would know if my opponent were going battlrcruiser because i know who to scout and im not retarded. you can get a reactor and get like 4 vikings for the time it takes them to get 1 battlecruiser, so they will be worthless because im gonna fly around and try to pick off every battlecruiser i can. if you mass battlecruisers you wont have much of an army if you get to that point and have the standard 72 workers anyways.

[xam9856]

@JpeltakaCyberBeast and @Stefan7773 don't start a flame war or I'm gonna turn off the internet, and dinner's ready at 7, cheers!

[JpeltakaCyberBeast]

@xam9856 lol he stopped after my last comment when he realized i was much better than him, and that battle cruisers in a tvt is just rediculous

[xam9856]

@JpeltakaCyberBeast meh, civil people on the internet are a dying breed due to over turning of trolls and yeah TvT and battle cruisers don't mix well xD

[antonima1]

@xam9856

ya, 1 viking vs 10 bcs..

[rocksparadox]

@JpeltakaCyberBeast At least you're spelling like a retard, here is the CORRECTION:

You'RE bronze , opponent WAS going battlecruiser, HOW to scout.

Anyway versus zerg battlecruisers can work, if he only has some queens and you arrive with two cruisers, zerg is SCREWED.

And don't give me that shit about scouting, because some marines can easily keep the overlords out.

[rakeyybaby]

did you take into account the cost to tech up to bc?

[Groundonrage]

starcraft isn't a game thats made of

a vs b

its a game of timing , strategy and experience.

[rc152009]

Battlecruisiers looked better on expansion , and the marines died a lot funnier on the older game haha

[lambonut6]

this is really early in the beta

[unitylovefamily]

mobility

[miike189]

YAMATO...

[JingableAsian]

@miike189 would you really yamato a fucking marine?

[miike189]

@JingableAsian no, but i said yamato because is the best thing of bc...and it makes better the bc than the marines..

[CerberusT93]

@JingableAsian sounds like an overkill to me

[beakerthefrog]

@JingableAsian yes, i'm a firm believer in overkill.

[ZaZzinator]

If you're gonna prova that the BC is underpowered send it against something that doesn't counter it -.-

[massdestruction97]

Try that at MAX supply, 33 BCs OMG vs 200 marines. Hahahaaa!

[Berith003]

did you upgrade the marines and didnt do anything for the BC?

[chazstahs]

that doesnt show much.. even though a bc is more expensive than 13marines it gets the flight advantage shorter distance, plus with its upgrade which is a one time thing also it can use its cannon plus much more stronger

[slapdaddyc]

fukin mass Bcs are OP

10 bc vs my mass hydralisc and corrupter army... bcs win.....

[massdestruction97]

@slapdaddyc Yes, thats right and in the next patch, their ground attack is gonna be nerfed from 10 to 8.

[VanHelsing9901092]

dude its easy do defeat one battle cruiser what about when there are about 10 of them

[DocterMuzzy]

Which looks cooler an army of marines or an army of zerglings...i cant decide

[Arthuurs11]

so basicaly the battle cruiser is very weak, weaker than is the 1st part but if it has 3 armor, maybe theres a chance if you maximaze the armor

[massdestruction97]

Why the hell are you telling BCs are expensive and slowly produced?! Compare to the 2 other ultimate air units (without the mothership):

Carrier - 450m, 250g, 120s - the fastest, has range of 8, deals decent damage

Brood lord - 300m, 250g, 74s - can attack only ground units, but with range of 9

Battlecruiser - 400m, 300g, 90s - the toughest unit in game, 550 HP and armor 3, deals the biggest damage, only that it has a range of 6 , but definetly more useful than Carriers or Brood lords.

[TwiceKnightly30]

@massdestruction97 The Ultralisk & Immortal are the toughest units in the game, in terms of armor & how long it takes to Kill them

[massdestruction97]

@TwiceKnightly30 WTF!?!

The Ultralisk has 1+5 armor, but with the upgrade and 500 HP

The BC has 3+3 armor and 550 HP.

The Immortal, yes, its hardened shields soak up quite a damage, but vs marines or when out of shields is rubbish. The BC yamato IGNORES the shields and can shoot it in exactly one shot

And they cannot attack air units.

I think there's no room for comparsion.

[s7r1k30u7]

@massdestruction97 thats why the battlecruiser is more expensive

[Stuntman8000]

@TwiceKnightly30 immortal aint that tough but ultra might be

[TwiceKnightly30]

@Stuntman8000 I guess it really depends, because an immortal can take 10 yamato cannons to the face without taking any hull damage... but will fall to a small pack of zerglings, whereas the ultra is better suited for the zerglings, but not the yamatoes...

[brainwasher9876]

@TwiceKnightly30 Immortal hardene shields do not activate when faced with special abilities, including the BC's yamato.

[rocksparadox]

@TwiceKnightly30 dude, go play minecraft, you really know crap about this game.

Comparing land and air units, and you really had a swing and miss with the immortal story.

Their passive ability sucks, they just deal good damage and CAN theoretically take 10 big hits but they just get marine/maraudered.

[trytojustify]

marines just kick ass.

[bood3e]

150 marines in 1v1 = win and solo co-op 1v3

[Kommandant10]

what a shame

[AceBean27]

This just makes me think bcs are even more OP, they should be destroyed by marines

[psycho642]

yeah but the marines don't have the Yamato gun..

[AlexSaysHi2013]

meh you need more than just one battlecruiser versus a ball of marines

[MrRedPanda1]

The marines didn't use any micro.

The marines didn't use stim.

The marines didn't attack all at once.

I imagine with micro and a good attack pattern, you could potentially lose nothing.

[gustavotriqui]

@MrRedPanda1 While that's true, 13 marines cost 13 supply, while 1 BC cost 6. So potentially, you could have 2 BC by that time. 2 BC cost 800 mineral and 600 gas, and 13 marines cost 650, so that would not be fair in cost.

Micromanaging benefit marines more, but the BC fly, nice tactical adventage. And you can mix a couple Medevacs with the marines, true. But then you can mix a couple siege tanks with BC, and there will be no contest.

So, in conclussion: both units are right, and have their use

[GeometricalPanda]

what about that splash damage laser thing against infantry for the bc?

[HotnessTim]

@GeometricalPanda

Does not exist.

[CerberusT93]

@GeometricalPanda that was removed from the BC somewheres last year i think, probably for balance reasons since it made them too versatile

[DarkRaven008912]

@CerberusT93

True, I second that. I see Battlecruisers as more of a support unit, using their Yamato cannons to destroy enemy hardpoints in bases and armies.

[CerberusT93]

yeah, since units like BCs are easily outnumbered when up against units like marines, they have units such as the hellion which can take on a lot of units easily but they dont fare well against powerful individuals. so this is why you must mix your armies together :)

[Skullzero1]

easier to make an army of 5 bc's then an army of 65 marines...

[bood3e]

@Skullzero1 yeah but marines kick ass

[gustavotriqui]

@Skullzero1 Dont think so. I could be proved wrong, but i think It's much easier to build an army of 65 marines than 5 BC. Specially with Reactors in the Barracks.

[Skullzero1]

@gustavotriqui ok, i stand corrected, made this comment when i first bought the game while installing, through experience i see otherwise now. Just figured 5 would be easier number to achieve then 65.

[russianguyovich22]

So 13 marines can kill a battlecruiser, with maybe four survivors. What's the solution, then? Send two battlecruisers. Six if you're smart. Never leave those clunky death machines all by themselves.

[Kelgrafar]

@GamerSourceNetwork Armor upgrades would help the Battle Cruiser more than the Marines, and attack visa versa. Upgrading both armor and attack would counter the difference, but I don't think that's what TheStealthFire meant.

[deathbyzergling]

Keep in mind, you have to tech. On the other hand, that battlecruiser had zero upgrades. Even one armor upgrade would have made it win.

[johnnyk617]

what about stimpacks and shields?? probly like 10 marines i bet

[mofogie]

doesnt account for micromanagement of marines, or synergy with other units like medivac.

[eyesack9]

Not worth it.. You can just make 2 battle cruisers lmfao

[treenahunter]

worthless ??? try carrier they are worthless but bc arent they can deal heavy dmg sure they are worthless if you dont combinate them with raven or anything else.

I play zerg and know how hard it can be to fight against only 3 BC and some other stuff like mmm thats devostating. cause how i said they deal heavy

[Ronald3570]

@treenahunter carrier's are far from worthless, you just cant use them by themselves and you have to know what you're doing. a really good combination is carriers under a mothership. the carriers will be cloaked, but the ships attacking the enemy will still be uncloaked and draws their fire away from the mothership. then if you have a solid protoss army ontop of all that then its gonna be pretty hard to fend off that attack.

[massdestruction97]

@Ronald3570 The mothership is a piece of sh*t which can be brought down even by a BC without yamato. Not that it doesn't make a good combination with carriers, but it will become the enemy priority target and costs more than a carrier.

[Ronald3570]

@massdestruction97 true, it dies quicker than a paper airplane but it substantially turns the battle more and more in your favor the longers its alive. its best to only invest in it if you're going for the kill in your next attack. and plus you can use vortex on the anti air units to increase its lifespan.

[massdestruction97]

@Ronald3570 Of course, in macro games, building up a sufficient army of carriers makes a mothership must have, in order to kill it, you first have to reach it. I guarantee you, if this is PvT, terran will lose at least 2 BCs trying to kill the MS (with good micro, keeping it away from the nearest BC, but still cloaking the furthest carrier). Then the graviton catapult should clean up the mess (keep in mind after the MS goes down you must use hit and run:)

[massdestruction97]

@MiguelGalit There's a video showing a carrier RAPED by a BC, stop talking shit like that.

[MiguelGalit]

@massdestruction97 ha! you dont know how to use carrier... i changed my mind... carriers can run away while damaging a battlecruiser... so it means that a battlecruiser cant touch a carrier... did you know that? Im gonna upload a video tommorow... AND IM GONNA TELL YOU THAT YOU SUCK ON STARCRAFT 2!

[massdestruction97]

@MiguelGalit I'm sure the Yamato can't touch the carrier! Or even some vikings combined with marines. Believe me, sending a naked BC without yamato after a carrier is not the thing I'll do. Nor anyone else decent SC2 player. But thats not the case. I prefer to beat the crap out of the protoss with an early to mid MMM. With all due respect, a "pro" gamer like I believe you aren't, wouldn't talk bullshit like that.

[Audiocrazed]

come on they barely won

[SnarfTheHoovySlayer]

@Audiocrazed still battlecruisers are pretty worthless. Ask gretorp, one of the best terran players out right now.

[massdestruction97]

@SnarfTheHoovySlayer Worthless? No one is gonna send one vs 13 on hostile territory(at least you can use the terrain advantage) and then wait to be brought down. I recommend you to see how a BC rush with several battlecruisers wipes an entire zerg base.

[SnarfTheHoovySlayer]

@massdestruction97 You do realize that they are incredibly expensive have a low damage output and die really quickly right? They are worthless and the only time a top tier player uses battlecruisers is for a joke.

[massdestruction97]

@SnarfTheHoovySlayer Of course, but when bought, even 3 of them can bring the enemy forces down (with some backups). Especially in mid and late game, try using MMM as a cover strategy and, if your macro is good, save money for 3 or 4. It works quite well :).

[SnarfTheHoovySlayer]

@massdestruction97 Except 2 tanks are still much better than the cruiser and more efficient and faster. Even go to top tier diamond league players like gretorp and ask, he will tell you battlecruisers are trash.

[gustavotriqui]

@SnarfTheHoovySlayer Gretorp is entitled to have his own opinion. However, different playstyles might vary their opinions. TLO builds BC. And TLO plays better than Gretorp imho.

[gustavotriqui]

@SnarfTheHoovySlayer I suggest you to watch a replay in Youtube called "TheLittleOne vs MadFrog - Game 1 - Blizzard StarCraft 2 Showmatch". This might make you change your opinion about pro-player never using Battlecruisers.

[OcelotDAD]

@SnarfTheHoovySlayer lies

[gustavotriqui]

@SnarfTheHoovySlayer BC are the most damaging unit in the game vs ground, with 44 DPS. And I suggest you to see a few videos from TLO, which is probably the best non-korean terran player in the world. He not only build BC, he sometimes *rushes* to them.

[mistahjion]

@gustavotriqui I like MorroW better :P

[Anonymous247n]

So a dozen dudes with rifles can shoot down a spaceship...

[TwiceKnightly30]

@Anonymous247n ... A Baker's Dozen :D

[slimbullet96]

Just like the marines, battlecruisers strive in numbers.

[bornkilla123]

Not much of a herocruiser.

[blahoho]

If you had Stim Pack I bet it'd be even better.

[thisnamewaseasy]

13 rines is still 650 min....

[neonizermk2]

13 rines are about as versatile as a single Battlecruiser. Normally you would be using med evacs with rines (preferredly out of BC range) and otherwise you'd be using vikings for the cost of those marines (just more gas). I think you could kite a BC with vikings. Still, one vs one type of units are terrible because you don't get any synergy out of the units. Who -ever- uses a single BC? that's asking for trouble. Still, if it was one BC and 650-400 = 250 mins = 5 rines, the BC would have won.

[hxcnoah]

of course the battle cruiser is worth the cost...you just dont send it alone vs 13 rines

cruisers are great additions to an army (though u really need at least 3 or 4 of them to be useful), but alone they are not set

[PieisDaBest1]

With that battlecruiser killed by that many marines, it will look so easy to kill a battlecruiser.

[CarlosOve]

have a look, with that BC having over 60 kills, yeah, i'd say it's worth the cost

totally agree with toxicitzi

[toxicitzi]

@GamerSourceNetwork

wow.. you are incredibly retarded..

I know many people said here before me, but after I've read your description I realised you are a complete retard..

There is no such thing as an absolute unit in all SC and SC II you moron!! There are units combinations to make them work nicely, 1 type of unit will always fall to the ground easily, that always happens no matter what units...

This is the worst video ever for 1 reason, this piece of shit was meant to be taken serious.

[marty10009]

which noob would use one bc without support against 13 marines?

[lemonbone]

this video prove nothing to be honest

[rekrul]

dunno why lemonbone got a thumbs down. who the hells gonna send 1 BC against 13 marines?

1 templar could probably kill 13 marines at full energy, OMG ITS BETTER THAN A BC!! ...are marines worth the cost??

[renano95]

@rekrul its to prove how much better the BCs got. in the first 1 BCs couldnt take as many marines

[D3Fanatic]

Why only one BC? You should have 12 lol.

[LegacyTangent]

@D3Fanatic

why 13 Marines? you should have 40 vikings lol

[AstroBoy55555]

Did you guys check how many marines it takes to take out 2 battle cruisers? If it's more than 26 then battle cruisers are still worth the cost.

[gradyhess]

Well you also have to think about the fact that air can cluster more than ground units. If you had more backup on both sides only a finite amount of marines can be on the front firing line at once.

[TheStealthFire]

any stim packs? what upgrade levels?

a single weapon upgrade on the cruiser counts for a lot since it fires a lot of shots pretty quickly

[GamerSourceNetwork]

@TheStealthFire with stimpak it only took 12 marines. if marines and bcs have equivalent upgrades result is the same.