Kip McKean says it took Jesus 3 hours to get his heart right - EXCERPT

[Lovingvictory1]

Whether McKean is a cult leader or not he will not burn in hell because GOD, Love does not create such a condition. But McKean's mortal mind, opposing divine Principle, Love, can make a very unpleasant state for him and his kind. Divine Mind does not use methods of illicit control, fear, hate, shunning, fear, intercessor or deceit. Love GOD, love man and heal the sick and you will be following the amazing example of the amazing Jesus and find your way home on a higher plane within.

[ACEWilly08golf]

One thing I find really strange about the whole movement was the "sin study". Who doesn't know that confession is a part of Christianity?? You can go into any Catholic Church in the world and confession booths at the side. But man, the crap we went through with all of this!! I'll admit the whole idea of converting a person from seven simple studies was just bad training to begin with. There is SOOOO much more in the bible that just those teachings...

[richard14ize]

This church is not the answer to all your problems. I understand that they want to spread the word but discipleship is very problematic. There are a lot of strange people in this church. If they were less intense people would listen.

[richard14ize]

The sisters in the BCOC are great. The brothers are jerks. It took a jerk to get me out the BCOC. I thank him everday. He said I was'nt going to just hang around. I had to produce new members. My friends and family thought I was crazy. Most people left and the ones who stayed had burned their bridges and no one to turn to. People ruined their lives for this idiot.

[richard14ize]

All religions are vulmerable to cults. Alqaeda, Hezbollah and Hammas are terrorist cults doing God's work. But most muslims don't beleive in terrorism. So don't hijack a religion for your own purposes. If you like being in a cult and it gives you structure and purpose in your life great. But don't sell it. I'm a christian and a disciple of Jesus not a robot. You can be christlike but not christ.

[richard14ize]

Before the internet people were trapped for years in the BCC. Most of the imperfect christians who left had adjustment problems. There are a lot of victims out there. You disciple yourself. A lot a good christians and churches are out there. Yes confess sin. But only if it is against someone. Otherwise it's nobody business but God's and you.

[camilocuesta]

Oh my is Lord Top Spot Kip McKean rebuking Jesus!

[kyleyancy]

@wilbrack - And after all that, I STILL don't know what you are trying to say.

Consider this: For in many dreams and in many words there is emptiness. Rather, fear God. Ecc 5:7

[kyleyancy]

One final thought: if you cannot "discern" from this small excerpt what Kip is implying, what good is it that I post the remainder of the sermon? If you don't get it from this quote all you'll really be doing is looking for your own "excerpts" to try and defend Kip. But just to humor the peanut gallery, I'll "submit."

[kyleyancy]

What's most troubling are the defense of Mr. McKean. One person likens him to Jesus (Quest4nil) and the other likens him to David and Hezekiah (DiscipleTube). Are you kidding me? Are you that "sold out" that you've lost objectivity and just plain ole "Christian" common sense? The man implies that Jesus had sin in his heart. EdM021 has it right: when you had to get your heart "right," it's because you had sin in your heart. WAKE UP!

Oh, and the full sermon will be posted...SOON.

[kyleyancy]

@DiscipleTube: pray for discernment.

[DiscipleTube]

They used this as a way to remove Kip in the former church. They had finally found a way to get rid of him. David and Hezekia both were great leaders for God, yet had unfaithful children.

The bible is very clear that not evangelists, but only elders have this expectation. Kip never claimed to be an elder, yet they used this to get rid of him.

[DiscipleTube]

They wanted to get rid of leadership. They always wanted to get rid of Kip for that reason, because they wanted to be autonomous. But they knew that would never fly so for years they kept looking for opportunities to get rid of him. Then they found a weakness with his daugther and took advantage of her, applying Kip to the standard of and elder, rather then an evangelist.

[DiscipleTube]

I personally know Kip and that is not what he meant. Jesus was never in sin. Kip never would tell any of us this, because he didn't want to speak bad of certain old friends. But when the books where found and opened for what really happened, the conspiracy of the LA unity meeting fell out. Many of the elders had wanted to go back to being comfortable autonomous churches for years.

[DiscipleTube]

Yes, Jesus in fact did have his heart tempted in everyway, but that is not the same as sin, is it? He never gave in, as we see Jesus always got his heart right in every temptation. Would you not agree, that we can't control what we will be tempted with, but we can always control what we do about it.

[DiscipleTube]

I'm sorry but does anyone really believe that you can understand what is meant in a one minute clip out of a hour lesson? Is that not out of context?

Did Jesus not also frequently say things also to filter out those who weren't paying attention, like "unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have not life in you."

Is having to get your heart right really the same as sin? What about Jesus being "tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin" - Hebrews 4:15

[DiscipleTube]

I'm sorry but does anyone really believe that you can understand what is meant in a one minute clip out of a hour lesson? Is that not out of context?

Did Jesus not also frequently say things also to filter out those who weren't paying attention, like "unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have not life in you."

Is having to get your heart right really the same as sin? What about Jesus being "tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin" - Hebrews 4:15

[EdM021]

"It took Him three hours to get His heart right." Does this charlatan even KNOW what he's talking about??? I used to be in ICOC and believe me, when they tell you "you need to get your heart right," they meant that "you have sin in your heart."

[mKICKASS420]

Cult manufactured garbage. Nothing to see here , you'd be better off listening to a badger for spiritual guidance. This man is absolutely insincere and he only wants your money as well as control. Word up. You heard it from the man himself

[christimacc]

Wolf in sheep's clothing.

[quest4nil]

@BaptismOfMoonlight Hang in there you who are highly favored by the Lord! I've read your words and know for certain you have been born of God - just as we recognize Jesus through his words. I'm proud of you sticking up for your fellow brother Kip, and by association, me and all who love the TRUTH.  I also appreciate you giving your life to defend this country from every enemy. You make faith LOOK GOOOOOD!!!! :-)

[quest4nil]

@BaptismOfMoonlight Ooopsies!!!! I accidentally directed something toward you that was meant for those who wish to ruin God's vineyard -sorry!!!  You are clearly full of love and helpfulness and I appreciate your hard work :-)

[ljtatts]

@quest4nil You're fucking insane. take your meds today??????

[quest4nil]

@BaptismOfMoonlight I knew the man who started this movement and he worked hard all his life, saving his pennies, infamously never letting anyone pay for a meal at a restaurant. All that man did was entreat me to know Jesus' word and he even paid my rent a few times, which I never paid back. His old hands would tremble when they held mine in prayer and the gravel in his voice came from breaking his back for the church, every day of his life. No one has ever loved Jesus' sheep more.

[ljtatts]

@quest4nil WOW!!! According to his (Kip's) character you are describing, I'm sure Kip would be VERY proud that you turned out he way you did. But in reality, you are a typical regurgitated disciple coming from that church. Unimpressed.

[quest4nil]

I've never heard anyone like him in my life. Like Jesus - he really divides people - many fiercely oppose him - but 400 churches in 171 nations - every single one teaching nothing but the Bible - believe, repent, be baptized and love your God and neighbor - give to the poor - forgive and bear with one another - be patient, kind, keep no record of wrongs, do not be easily angered, give to all who ask - and practice self control. He's not asking people to blow themselves up exactly.

[ljtatts]

@quest4nil YOU ARE MISLED AND BRAINWASHED YOU EVOLVED MODERN HUMAN FROM AT LEAST 250,000 PLUS YEARS AGO.

[quest4nil]

@ljtatts Oh...Oh I get it now - you abandoned Jesus, like Judas, you were a part of the ICC for a while, but you are now stabbing your friends in the back. You yourself have left Heaven's path and are now busy trying to block those who might want the grace, love, forgiveness and eternal life Jesus clearly and freely offers to any who want it. Well of course you are bitter - you just lost the best huband any woman could ever have. Why not read John - and tell me if you find any evil in Jesus?

[meshellndego]

He still belongs to the Lord, and He is doing what he thinks he should be.There are others out there who need someone like him to lead them. I wish I had more time to make clear what I want to say, but I honor him for being "Bent on Conquest" when this movement first started, He believed in the restoration movement, and he and other great men got it done! Tha's just a factt

[kyleyancy]

@meshellndego: are you serious? the man just blasphemed JESUS?!?!? Maybe you SHOULD take more time to say what you want to say because you are PROMOTING A FALSE RELIGION with a false messiah (kip). Wake up and pray for discernment!!! PLEASE!!!

[quest4nil]

@kyleyancy Seriously - what in the hell are you talking about? I've listened to about 50 of his sermons - they ALL teach EXACTLY what Jesus and the Apostles teach. But who are you??? What have you done for the kingdom? Isn't a tree known by it's fruit? How can hundreds of thousands of people reading Scripture - people who otherwise WOULDN'T KNOW JESUS AT ALL be wrong??? You are damning yourself by fighting one who spreads the gospel in many countries. Repent before God rebukes you.

[kyleyancy]

@meshellndego: and as far as the "restoration movement" goes, they've left more wounded and broken souls through abuse than you could imagine. great men? please. do YOURSELF a favor: ask kip if he ever thought he was on the same level as the apostle paul.

I. DARE. YOU.

[quest4nil]

@kyleyancy I don't give a damn about preachers - good or bad - my walk with Jesus is DETERMINED BY ME and JESUS - not them. You show me a man who blames another man for his crappy lukewarm walk in God and I'll show you a liar and a wretch who needs to own up to his OWN lack of faith and love. JESUS IS EVER PRESENT to help ANYONE carrying HIS cross. NOTHING can separate a sheep from Jesus Christ "not even Kip Mckean.". Anyone who blames Kip for his lousy walk is a billboard for HIS OWN sin.

[MusicViddeos]

@meshellndego I am still amazed there are people who defend Kip. My father went to his house once. He was sipping coffee with his feet on a table while young men and women in the church cleaned his house and mowed his lawn. Often times for free! He told my mother's church that people who were overweight were disgusting cows in God's eyes.

[quest4nil]

@MusicViddeos You know what - the DAY YOU reach out to COMPLETE STRANGERS and baptize even 3 people into Christ - and watch them walk with God - is the day YOU DESERVE TO HAVE YOUR FRICKIN' LAWN MOWED FOR FREE, you tubby ingrate. Of COURSE the man mispeaks from time to time - so what! The Holy Spirit said if we are given to gluttony we should put a knife to our throats.THAT'S WORSE THAN being called a cow friend. Why don't you target your energies toward atheists, jihadists and the lost instead?

[MusicViddeos]

@meshellndego (2) Besides people idolizing him as God, he was also destroying more people's salvations than anything else. My mom, who is one of the most kindest women I know was crying her eyes out one night because of verbally abusive things Kip had told her. She has luckily joined a church that is loving and doesn't put up with him. I have numerous stories about Kip that I could tell you all night. My family has tried to call him many times to talk to him but he will not respond

[quest4nil]

@MusicViddeos Whoever walks away from such a great Salvation as Jesus Christ, luminous teachings without any parallel, from sisters, brothers, mothers and fathers in Christ - Paul said a curse be upon them - so great is Jesus that to spurn him shows one's own evil, BUT EVIL ALWAYS BLAMES OTHERS and EVIL FIGHTS AGAINST THE SERVANTS OF JESUS with slander, lies, camping out on faults and IGNORING THE GREAT THINGS Kip has accomplished. Jesus WILL CERTAINLY welcome Kip but not petty fault finders.

[quest4nil]

@meshellndego Amen!!!! Kip Mckean GOT THE JOB DONE!!!! If only other Christians could take a break from their careers in criticizing to ALSO GET THE JOB DONE!!!!

.

ARE YOU CHRISTIAN? DO YOU NOT BELIEVE WHAT JESUS SAID??? The WORLD IS LOST and it's burning down around our ears if you open your eyes.

.

NOW WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT???? Or is criticizing Kip Mckean your best contribution to saving the world? You better pray you have more than that to show JESUS CHRIST on judgment day.

[kyleyancy]

@BOM: here's a little homework assignment: ask to see the books.

I DARE YOU.

[ljtatts]

Yes, I agree. Ask to see the books.

As far as the subject of this video,,seems like Jesus was not without sin. ????

However, since this was the only ICOC video I found, I figured I'd speak about anything referring to this church.

@kyleyancy: Why are you suggesting I read scripture?

[kyleyancy]

@ljtatts - i'm not criticizing you, but lettin' you know from previous experience with cult members, it just doesn't pay to argue with a fool. remember jesus said: cast not your pearls before swine.

[kyleyancy]

@ljtatts - if you folks would like, i will post THE WHOLE SERMON, in two parts, just so you can get "context", however, given what he says here, i don't think it would help THEM in arguing this away. what kip is saying here is that JESUS had SIN in his heart, making a HIM a lamb *with* blemish. see the implications? he was NOT a perfect sacrifice. and that is BLASPHEMY and HERESEY that ranks up there with the utterings of satan.

[quest4nil]

@kyleyancy Kyle, you are a little evil shit for brains. No kidding. You are putting evil inferences of your own evil twisted back biting fruitless mind into the mouth of a man who has worked longer, with more passion and fruit than 10000 of you. A tree is known by it's fruit. A main gains the whole world but forfeits his soul has gained nothing! Now...have you lead anyone to Jesus lately? I'm leading people all the time to Christ. I support men like Kip. I bet you are as lukewarm as spit.

[quest4nil]

@ljtatts R U new? Didn't Jesus pray "more earnestly" at some times more than others? And didn't he "learn obedience" as well? Google it. Jesus was a perfect man, and he also developed as we do, since he was tempted in every way just as we are. Jesus HAD to pray - he wasn't just doing it for a show. And notice in the garden he said, "not my will but your will be done." Jesus had a will at times different from God's. Satan knew opportune times in Jesus' life. Figure it out. He sympathizes with US.

[ljtatts]

@quest4nil Riiight, so Jesus was praying to HIMSELF.....hmmmm can we say spiritual schizophrenia?

[quest4nil]

@ljtatts The nature of God is Logos, Spirit, Word, Idea, Meaning...and Power - none of which can be contained, restrained or limited by space, place or time.

I cannot supply for you what is lacking in intellectual prowess. Simple minds whose cultures do not prepare them for anything beyond the physical, cannot understand philsophical, metaphysical, ontological thinking, in the least. So of course you view God like a piece of wood and misunderstand the very essence and nature of Jesus and God.

[kyleyancy]

@ljtatts: allow me to offer you some loving advice, and please, do not take offense, but consider the following Scripture: Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him. Proverbs 26:4

[quest4nil]

@kyleyancy ANSWER A FOOL ACCORDING TO HIS FOLLY OR HE WILL BE WISE IN HIS OWN EYES. Your words are pure gossipy venom. Go and feed God's sheep, seek and save the lost - that's why Jesus came. If you have such a noble desire to fight evil, why not go out in the world and save people who don't know Jesus AT ALL instead of fighting someone who DOES JUST THAT. Have you started churches in Russia, Japan, India, Africa...plus 165 other countries?? I don't hear you mentioning that. You make me sick

[kyleyancy]

Let's stay on topic, people. Kip McKean, in this video, explicitly states that Jesus had to pray for 3 hours to get his heart right which IMPLICITLY means Jesus had SIN IN HIS HEART. If that is not enough evidence for you that whatever the ICOC, ICC, LMNOP or WHATEVER name they are going teaches heresy, then YOU. ARE. BLIND. And you got that way because YOU ALLOWED THEM TO DECEIVE YOU.

[kyleyancy]

Yo, BOM, before you start calling people liars you should do your homework and read the accounts of other former members. That's what a real "intell" op would do, right?

[ljtatts]

The bible signed by five women. Nikki, Jan, Barbara, Cynthia, and Yaney. Is that specific enough for you? I have no reason to lie. It does not benefit me to make this stuff up.

[quest4nil]

@ljtatts Nor DOES IT BENEFIT ANYONE TO PROPAGATE SUCH PETTY small minded rubbish. Who gives a damn you had to walk for a Bible? Children are eating rocks in Darfur, women are being mutilated in Indonesia, little girls get acid thrown in their faces in Afghanistan while women are executed for being raped in Iraq. So shut your petty pie-hole and move on to something PRODUCTIVE AND help a DYING human race.

[ljtatts]

@quest4nil this discussion was 3 months ago idiot. If you think this is so petty, jump on a fucking plane to these countries and do something about it. I doubt you ever have or will, so shut your hypocritical foul mouth.

[quest4nil]

@ljtatts All of those tragedies and much of the tragedy in the entire world is the by-product or fruit of Islam, which is an idea, an ideology, a way of thinking and behaving. The pen is mightier than the sword, meaning ideas move nations. Bad ideas destroy civilizations, good ideas build them. Christ is a good idea and the UK and USA pioneered human rights and fair democratic systems that became the greatest nation states in history as a result. Ergo: Truth builds, lies destroy.

[quest4nil]

Jesus builds, Satan destroys. You are destroying the good that Jesus always brings with your lies. I am helping the entire world by putting truth, Jesus in minds. It's more powerful than someone like you could understand. See for yourself: GentleIslam . c om or firelight church . c o m Jesus, at this very moment, is persuading people to give up aids, std's, drunkenness, drugs, wife beating, infidelity, loneliness in exchange for a loving church family. This is what you fight. Utterly shameful.

[ljtatts]

Somewhere between 1995-2000 and I just found a bible that the womens' study group I was chosen to be with gave me. The reason why they gave me a bible was because I was reprimanded for not reading the bible when we next met. I explained to them I had no car to get to the store to buy one and they accepted no excuse. They wanted me to walk on a busy street with a toddler and a baby in a stroller to the nearest place to buy one and they didn't care how far it was. They showed their anger at me.

[quest4nil]

@ljtatts Cry me a river. You didn't even have a Bible...and they loved you enough to point out the pathetic position of one claiming to be a disciple of Jesus, with BIBLES in every hotel drawer - but you could never be bothered to pick one up and you FAULT THEM for STRONGLY wanting you to have GOD'S BREATH SPIRIT LIGHT LIFE - Jesus IS THE WORD - and that's your complaint?  YOU........GODLESS.........WRE­TCH.

[ljtatts]

Respond to this video... I am Godless, because I am an Atheist and proud of it. You are a blinded moron.

[ljtatts]

I'm curious? Did the church recruit you at your college? They like to do that. Get young fresh gullible minds.

[ljtatts]

@BaptismOfMoonlight I don't need to talk to Kip. Kip needs to talk to the press and answer their questions that he obviously avoids. You absolutely cannot say for sure these things did not happen. You weren't there Apology from Kip? You can personally tell Kip and his minions from me to kiss my ass. Phone number? I don't think so. How about the local news stations phone number. But please do pass on this information as if he doesn't already know how they manipulate people.

[ljtatts]

@BaptismOfMoonlight

Maybe because LA is not a small suburb

like Broward County Florida. They would

have a low attendace if they didn't let the unique individuals in. It's LA!

[ljtatts]

@BaptismOfMoonlight

How do you know I'm lying? Because

you have faith in your church that they

wouldn't lie to you? Call Kip McKean and as many other people that you want. It's a cult church. So many people have left

this church and disgusting stories to tell.

[quest4nil]

@ljtatts 1 out of 12 disciples left Jesus and all deserted him in the end. And he often caused EVERYONE to leave him, hence why he asked Peter, "Do you want to leave too?" But they replied, "To whom shall we go? You have the Words of LIFE!" Paul said "by their going, they showed they never belonged to us - if they had they would have remained." By and large, people in the movement will BREAK THEIR BACKS to help people get to Heaven. But you can't smack JESUS in the mouth enough can you.

[ljtatts]

@quest4nil Jesus is an illegitimate bastard child who had a crazy mother and to keep from getting stoned to death she concocted the immaculate conception story. Give me a fucking break. Wake up. There is no god, jesus, or holy spirit. Why would your god send himself to earth to sacrifice himself to himself. Complete ridiculous insanity. Are you sure your not that crazy bible lady from Wife Swap? lmfao!

[quest4nil]

@ljtatts You should enjoy all the lmfao you can...while you still can ;-)

I wonder if, when you stand before God, and he reviews your endless stream of invectives and lies against his lamb, whom he watched die for your sins, you will be so overwrought with lmfao? One thing is certain: Time will tell :-)

[ljtatts]

@BaptismOfMoonlight

So what if they bought your meal.

I'm talking about tithing.

[ljtatts]

@BaptismOfMoonlight I'm talking about the INTERNATIONAL CHURCH OF CHRIST going by a new name that you stated. I'm not lying. This was in Cooper City, Florida at Cooper City High School. In the auditorium. Tithing was expected of course like all churches. Like I said , the discipler would put the tithe in without our choice and say "you can pay me back" Therefore financially obligated when we did not have money at the time. This happened to quite a few people. Standard procedure.

[quest4nil]

@ljtatts oooo...can I pay your medical bills - you sound quite injured you fat rich stingy ungrateful american. HAVE YOU EVER EVEN ONCE GONE WITHOUT 3 MEALS A DAY and housing and nearly anything else you want? And now - how luxuriously you find the time, from your "busy soul winning life" to criticize those whose sandals you are not fit to libel. Why don't you go have a quiet time, pray and go into the harvest field and bear some fruit...for once in your life.

[ljtatts]

@quest4nil , You are definitely not a Christian, you angry half wit douchebag.

[quest4nil]

@ljtatts Ahhh...the Atheist girl is truly uniquely qualified to discern matters in which she has no belief or investment. Are you sure you know what God and Jesus want...but I thought God didn't exist? Can I have some of your perpetual cake - the kind one can have, but also eat too :-) (longish Zombie grooooan here :-)

Sugar - join us :-) or remain a zombie - dead girl walking.

[ljtatts]

@quest4nil You can try the reverse psychology on me all you want. Won't work. Our disagreement works both ways. Why do you care what an Atheist thinks? I may not know everything there is about all religions, you certainly do not either. Enjoy your god all you want. I don't care!! I am concerned about the psychological damage that is done to not one but many people that have been involved in Kip Mckeans Cult. Check out their testimonies. I know...Google it!.

[quest4nil]

@ljtatts Atheists came from nothing, live for nothing and will return to nothing. It's little surprise then that you don't understand why I would want to demolish every pretension set up against the love and life in Christ. You are free to choose death and fight Jesus in a war of lies, but expect resistance from God and his children.

[quest4nil]

@ljtatts Name calling is the retreat of those with nothing substantive to say. It's equivalent to saying, "I surrender, your points are incontrovertible and my mealy mouthed rejoinder is so lacking, douchebag is the best my brain can muster :-)

I'll say this - you atheists are an articulate lot :-)

[ljtatts]

At one time in the past, all the women had to wear pink underwear. No lie.

[quest4nil]

@ljtatts Wow....major Islamic genital mutilation oppression. That's some egregious Jihad worth bringing up. From what woodwork of Hell are all these mouthy, gossipy, backbiting, fruitless flies coming? The world is truly an ungrateful, unholy, unforgiving, petty, thankless, cauldron of unfaithful unkind lies. Of all the people in the entire corrupt world - YOU PICK KIP MCKEAN to beat up???? I bet you cowards don't rebuke Muslims, drunks, gays or even atheists but "bravely" attack Kip. Nice.

[ljtatts]

@quest4nil Again , I'm an ATHEIST.

[ljtatts]

Money making scam church.This church fills you with the disease of guilt. You will need therapy if you ever get involved and then have an awakening and decide to leave. Trust me.

[quest4nil]

@ljtatts What kind of jello spined mush for brains is SO detached from reality that guilt overshadows his "righteous" life? Doesn't Jesus' blood and grace, along with a RIGHT LIFE annul guilt? People who accuse others of "guilting" them are usually GUILTY or they don't know Jesus who takes away guilt or they are credulous half tards who forget how "good" they "really" are. If your "guilt" was so bad - why didn't you just repent? Ljtatts is so good he doesn't deseeerve to feel guilty. Right.

[xray342radio]

@quest4nil How much "RIGHT LIFE" does a disciple have to live in order to go to heaven?

I'm also concerned that you used the term "half tards" to refer to @ljtatts. Are you a disciple? If so, does a disciple use those kinds of words when sharing their convictions with others, particularly those who appear not to be disciples?

[ljtatts]

@xray342radio, You're right, a true disciple shouldn't use those words. He also missed the part that I am not a believer. @quest4nil has anger issues. Perhaps he should goto some of those classes the churches offer and let him get rebuked. What a dick.

[ljtatts]

@quest4nil, I'm an Atheist. I don't believe in the violent nonsense of what your god condones. Fantasies brainwashed into minds of people so they feel they have a chance to got to after death. How selfish and arrogant. You get one life. Live it right.

[ljtatts]

If you don't have the money to tithe that week, your discipler will put it in for you and you are then obligated to pay him back. Does any of this sound familiar to you yet?

[ljtatts]

Controlling church that will damage you. Eventually, if you already haven't heard, they don't allow you to think for yourself. (ie) Went to a bible study once and the leadership suggested to the men that if they wanted to grow a mustache, to discuss it with their discipler to see if it's a good idea, anything you do, vacations, buying new car, they'll go as far as telling you to cut your hair and change the way you dress.

[empiricalpoet]

Reading into scripture