Added: 3 years ago
From: catzie690
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  • Your views, based upon no real experience are worthless.

  • What are your thoughts on libertarianism?

  • @beamsbygraceforHim In short? I strongly disagree with it, and it's probably my least favorite political view under the anarchist-and-similar-views umbrella.

  • Were you watching Juno?

  • @GeekyMex Nope, but I was listening to the soundtrack! :)

  • @jazzmatik Nope, my memories of kindergarten aren't of "just playing", actually! I was pulled out due to problems with another kid in the school (a kid in grade 2 making harassing & sexually explicit phone calls... Was enough to convince my dad to home educate! ;-)).

  • I'm not unschooled, I went all 12 years plus college through 'formal' schooling. But my question is more centered on your comments about civilization. What do you mean when you say, "I'm not a supporter of civilization?" Does that mean your against large public projects, like highways, or airports? Does it mean your against compulsory public projects, like highways and airports? I lean more towards anarchism at well.

  • @Sparkygravity YT won't let me post links in comments, so I'll send you a link in a private message to an article that explains the basics of my political opinions... :-)

  • @catzie690 thank you I'd like that. Just found your videos. I'm 30 me and my gf are thinking about children and about our future family, so I'll looking into homeschooling or unschooling, don't know how I'll approach learning yet for my kids. I will however not send my kids to school, as my own experience was highly disappointing. I much wasted time in school, not learning, it's really almost criminal.

  • @Sparkygravity * wasted so much time in school..... (wish there was an edit button)

  • @Sparkygravity Cool! I think it's wonderful how much better known, and how much more information there is out there, on both homeschooling and especially unschooling. I have a resource page on my blog if you want that link, and if you're looking for something specific, I'll happily direct you toward a good article if I have it in my stash! ;-)

  • @Sparkygravity But I find that when I talk with most people about anarchism they equate anarchism to mean communal chaos, that anarchy is overly brutal, and could not sustain any ethical community. Which I don't believe. But that's why I"m curious about why your anti-civilization? What does civilization mean to you? And what are the reasons you don't support the 'idea' of civilization?

  • I am a market anarchist. I agree that anarchy and unschooling go together like peanut butter and jelly, although I primitivism strikes me as insane.

  • @DeraJa And that strikes me as rather rude. How would you feel if I went on your channel and told you market anarchy is insane? Sheesh. Respect other views, please.

  • I'm breaking this up, sorry...

    I'm curious as to your political leanings, as most people who talk like you do that I have met are Democrats (if you are in the USA at all), which is such a socialist party and very much an opposite of Anarchy.

    I'm an independent myself, but definatly think the Consitituion is awesome by keeping the government out of people's lives more than most governments.

    I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts! You are very lucid.

  • I'm Canadian, so here the main parties are Liberal & Conservative, followed by the NDP, Bloc Quebecois, & Green. I don't believe in the usefulness of politics, and don't align myself with any party. I do feel more solidarity with the traditional left than right of the political spectrum, though I consider myself a post-leftist anarchist. & no, I don't think socialism is rly the *opposite* of anarchy, per se. The far left & traditional schools of anarchist thought are along communist lines!

  • The far right anarchism that started in the States, that of Libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism, are relatively new, & probably the anarchist thoughts I agree with the least...

    I'm not so fond of what I know of the constitution, though there's certainly plenty of positive in it. But Canada, as a more socialist country, is a better place to live in my experience. Poor ppl aren't just let to die here. If you take away the freedom of a community to look after itself, you better do it for them!

  • @catzie690 What you are saying in regards to "anarcho-capitalism" is not true. The anarcho capitalism movement was a synthesis to the 19th century american individualist anarchists and the austrian school of economics. While the american individualist anarchists were heavily influenced by Proudhon, who was the FIRST anarchist. So "anarcho-capitalism" can be firmly placed in the anarchist tradition.

  • @DeraJa also, I don't consider myself an anarcho-capitalist. I consider myself free market and anti-capitalist. Since the current economic system as it exists today, which is dominated by large unaccountable hierarchical corporations is only sustainable When a state exists to create artificial barriers to entry, and subsidies there inefficiencies. Basically, the hierarchical state breeds a hierarchical economy.

  • @DeraJa Yeah? I was speaking from what I'd gathered in basic research on the topic. Maybe I should look into it more thoroughly... But my understanding was definitely that Libertarianism was a relatively new phenomena!

  • @catzie690 The term libertarian being used to describe a system based on free markets and individual sovereignty is a relatively new phenomenon, but the ideas themselves have been around in one form or another for hundreds of years. So you are partially right.

  • I can relate to some of what you say. It's refreshing to find a young woman who is finding herself instead of worrying about prom! (Though prom can be fun if not taken to seriously.)

    I lean towards anarchy myself, but realized that people will always organize some form of government even if it's a small tribal one for the sake of survival and having some form predicatability in that society.

  • Thank you for the comment! :-)

    I believe strongly in decentralization. Each individual small community should then be able to decide hoe they're run, in my opinion. I feel that there can still be predictability, without government of any sort, though. A community can have some structure, without having rulers! :-)

  • The decentralization of the Constitution is what is so brilliant about it. But then you also had the benefit of a "United" larger group. A big reason why the Celts were over run by the Romans is because they lacked that. So with the premise of the Constitution there was self rule but the protection of it by being united. I think it's a brilliant set up.

  • Although I am not an anarcho-primitivist or an anarchist or anything like that, I am against civilization. Like any addiction, civilization is inherently abusive to it's users. It's this enormous social structure that seeks to dominate and subjugate all forms of life. I find it surprising that there aren't more people that see this.

  • Don't worry about not having people who live near you who believe as you do. I don't know anyone, even with the internet, who really believes as I do. (who I would consider "believing as I do")

    Finding people who believe like me is not that high of a priority to me, as long as I'm finding and living my purpose in life. That is my priority. What do you think about such things in relation to your own life?

  • I'm a very social person (though, strangely, also an introvert), and I've always felt a strong need for validation from others. It's something I've learned to be less dependent on (if I hadn't, I doubt I'd hold the opinions I do today!), but still something I crave... Also, I'm not a fan of debating. I debate things because I care that people understand my views, not because I like to! So if I didn't have people whom I could talk to who agreed with me, I honestly think I'd go crazy.

  • @catzie690 I think it's awesome that you aren't looking for outside validation anymore! That is so powerful and you will do so much better in life with that under your belt. It's great to share ideas with other people when you are grounded that way. :)

  • Why do you think civilization isn't sustainable?

  • Because it requires huge amounts of resources which this planet does not have and which can only be gained through stealing resources from other countries. Especially since cities don't produce any resources themselves, they just process and consume them.

  • What resources? What are you talking about? Food? Iron? Oil?

  • Try all of the above. 2% of the world's population grows 100% of the world's food. Most so called "third world" countries which we like to think can't feed themselves because their primitive and can't get their shit together produce a vast abundance of food, which you can find in your local supermarket. They're just starving cause they can't afford to buy it at the prices we set. Just one example.

  • I agree. But the problem is not "civilization", the problem is the ever larger scam that the Federal Reserve has been running on the whole world for over 30 years. They print money out of nothing, and the whole world uses it.

    And the scam is coming to it's end. But that doesn't mean the end of civilization, I think it means much the opposite.

  • Well that all depends on how you define civilization. We've been brought up to believe in the infallibility of "progress" and "western civilization." Its root is the word "civil" and to most of us that means something positive but I think a deconstruction of the concept reveals just the opposite. Civilization requires the domestication of humanity into an inevitable hierarchy. The federal reserve is one manifestation of this, but it is part of a greater system which we, as 'citizens', enforce.

  • If we get rid of the federal reserve will our current lifestyles not still require the effectual slave labor which makes them possible? Don't get me wrong we probably agree with most things but I think the problem is much larger.

  • Sure, it's gonna hurt at first, especially for people in the US, but if people stop trusting fiat money and start using something that has real value as a medium of exchange, everything will be better, much better.

  • /watch?v=tyeF7H3tHFw

    /watch?v=N--ecIbbTpY

    /watch?v=EgMclXX5msc

    /watch?v=czcUmnsprQI

  • It isn't a complete answer, but simply by looking up anarcho-primitivism on Wiki or similar, it should give you a decent idea!

  • I find primitivism as an extremely wrong way of looking at things.

    The hierarchical power structures were well established in hunter-gatherer tribes and they were much more brutal than what they are in the modern world. See psychohistory (dot) com

  • In hunter-gatherer societies, the land could only support 1 person per square mile of land, and people often had to move after exhausting all natural resources in an area.

    People were much less environment friendly back then.

    When nobody owns land because it's useless to own it because you can't improve on it either way, people have no incentive to take care of the land and are instead going to destroy the environment much faster. This is why they had to move so often.

  • Physical and sexual abuse were not even frowned upon. It was the way of things.

    When a tribe didn't have enough resources to feed all children they would simply kill the weakest or the least obedient.

    Most people would only live about 25 years before they died of tooth decay. There was no time for intellectual pursuits.

    They treated other tribes as mortal enemies since if others were hunting or gathering in their territory, they were taking their resources, thus killing more of them

  • Primitivism says that agriculture, the division of labor and the growth in human population are a bad thing. This is anti-human.

    Division of labor is the only thing separating us from other animals. It makes all the good stuff possible.

    Through division of labor we cooperate with each other so that we can specialize in doings certain things and thus meet more of our goals.

  • All social animals have power dominated hierarchical power structures.

    We evolved from other primates.

    Maybe some societies were egalitarian, but egalitarianism isn't necessarily good, when instead of restricting abuse, it is used to restrict individual differences from flourishing.

    People are not born equal. Different people are better or worse at different things. To make them equal by force is counter-productive and fueled by envy, not compassion.

  • @NoCryingNowYes What you are saying is very true. Animals do have structures. And even gangs organize themselves into those same structures. Just watch the lions and hyenas interact. It's like watching downtown LA gangs. Same thing.

    And your comments about abuse in primitive societies are true also.

    It's a subject you really have to study though to understand and most people don't.

  • @NoCryingNowYes I lean towards finding the healthy balance inbetween. Society can mess us up if we don't stay aware, but it can serve us also.

    The US Constitution finds a really healthy balance and I wish more people got that.

  • Hey, I agree with most of what you are saying (especially about unschooling) and I am 19 years old. I too often feel funny being so passionate about these kinds of things at my age, when no one I've ever talked to seems to agree with me. And I think you're right that a lot of people are scared to talk about it. I've gone to public school my whole life and I'm in university now. So you can imagine that everyone around me would think all these 'free learning' notions are insane. So I keep quiet...

  • Sorry it took me so long to respond!

    There are people who will certainly agree with you, it can just be hard finding them... However, I have found that by speaking up, you can find all the other people who, perhaps, thought that they were the only ones to think such thoughts! Also, being honest about your opinions can be very freeing. Also, sadly, very frustrating, as I'm finding with my some of my friends lately... *Sighs*

    It's really a shame how close minded much of the world is!

  • I see what you mean. I definetely don't intend to just think this way and never do anything about it. It's just really hard to talk about at school. You wouldn't believe the things people in my education classes say! (I'm not studying to be a teacher, just taking classes out of interest). It's really disheartening that these people are going to become teachers. And I get frustrated too, I can talk to my sister about anything, but if I even mention homeschooling she gets soo angry and won't talk!

  • I didnt think the choices would be limited I just wondered what type of goals one might have for themselves coming from an unschooling background. I know from my own experience of growing up in public school we were taught to want to go on to college(To make something of ourselves). I wanted to know what happens when you grow up always having choice and having confidence in deciding things for yourself. I was sure it make a dramatic difference.

  • Sorry it took me so long to respond! :-(

    Actually, surprisingly to me, most, I'd say virtually all, unschoolers go on to college. It seems that since unschoolers are basically used to most of the world doubting their competency, many want to prove that they can do just as well as their schooled counterparts, which for many means going to college.

  • Although I am a Unit study curriculum homeschooler I do respect the concept of unschooling. It is just something that does not work for my child. I dont think there is a one size fit all solutions to learning in general. I dont think you are weird at all. I do want to know if you dont mind sharing what your plans are for the future. Do you want to go to college? Do you have a career or trade goal in mind? Where are you going to go from here? That I wonder about unschoolers.

  • I feel that unschooling works for every child, it simply requires that their parents trust them. I agree, which is why I love unschooling so much! Every persons learning experience is completely different, because each individual is completely different! I have absolutely no desire to ever study full time in an institution. Other very tentative plans include becoming a natural healer or vegan chef, and helping high school students to rise out of school. (Continued)

  • Most unschoolers, in my mind sadly, go on to collage, and often fairly traditional jobs. Others, however, start their own business, or travel for half of every year, or do other unique things. It really depends on what the individual wants... But if you were asking if unschoolers are limited in their opportunities, the answer is a definite no.

  • WOW. I want to comment on this video since we share many many MANY ideals, but I can't think of anything to write. But anyways, way to go with the unschooling, and I hope you make more videos!

  • I'm comforted by your testimony that unschooling work. I'm currently unschooling my oldest daughter and sometimes I'm unsure if it's best for her. Have you heard of nonviolent communication?

  • I'm very glad to hear that! :-)

    As for non-violent communication, I've heard of it, but I haven't really looked into it...

  • I wish I was unschooled...

    But only she can answer that question for you.

    /view_play_list?p=E67E71438D45­6348

  • Lols, 'and he's oh so good, and he's oh so fine, and he's oh so healthy in his body and his mind...' It's playing in the background XD Sorry, I notice random things -_-'

  • Props to you and your parents. It takes courage to deviate from the normal society principles.

  • You must pick up The Continuum Concept by Jean Liedloff!

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