Also i does anyone know a good place to learn wing chun i started learning in china for about 1month while i was in china and i kinda like Wing Chun outa all the other arts
how does he move his fist upward as he says stretch i can never get my wrist to bend upward?Or basicly when its 12:40-12:47 ish i really dont get how do you stretch cuz everytime i do that the bottom part of my wrist hurts or starts to not wanna cooperate when i was trying to do this while watching the video
This method of holding the hand/wrist is a great way to break the hand/wrist! Anytime you lock a joint (such as the push-up position), a slight bit more force will break it! Duh! :)
This reminds me why in Tai Chi, the palm thrust is favored over the fist, when applying body weight as the power train, for 6 or more inches of penetration. It's just really hard to transfer that much force using normal boxing palm down fists. Even vertical fists have issues. Tony Blauer also has an explanation for that whole "finger stretch" thing making the forearm stronger.
Amazing video, enjoyed it! I saw your previous videos on "How to make a fist" and "How to punch topic", also those when you started. Thanks to this video it makes sense HOW to set the grenade, how you used to call it.
The thing that I don't understand how to hit intermediate and low levels of the body (chest, stomach, groin) if wrist is going up. Please explain it :). Also for better understanding of the fist movement I recommend also shooting it from above, this way it could be seen
@taiwanoob - I dont care if ur head dont move or if it does. I still KO. The forces still rattle the brain. Try having ur buddies ram a 4x4 into your head at speed w/ a chin tuck. U think the brain isnt going to get that vibration?! Your obviously delusional & dont understand physics too well if you think theres no vibration happening at impact, let alone enough w/ a person able to connect nearly all 200lbs of his mass into that strike moving at +30fps.
@xiaou2 Vibrations aren't what makes the knockout. Otherwise, you'd faint by spinning too fast (and some do). The rebound on the brain is. Funnily enough I am majoring in theoretical physics. A body at rest stays at rest. Water doesn't move with waves, energy moves with waves. Your brain is going to jiggle, in the same rate as the rest of your head, and go back to its original position after the shock. No collision with skull = no surefire way for K0.
@taiwanoob - We have seen physics ppl in fight science goof up everything. Plus, there r things the body can do, that physics ppl still dont understand. Not to mention, all ur physics knowledge didnt even realize to use sandbags would be a far better & more realistic training medium. Quite simply put, ur knowledge is skewed and flawed. There are things you & science, does not know. Go hit your sandbag, and get some real results. Go do some real physical tests: Take a hit from Chen Xiaowang.
If you all are wondering why Im so angered, its because Ive dealt with too many Sifu's like this, that claims whatever you do is 'not wrong'... And then in the same breath, tell you why your crazy / wrong in the next. AND, then tell you that they are trying to 'improve' things, yet dont listen nor even properly research other means. U can take ur political BS & shove it where it belongs...
@xiaou2 I happen to enjoy the application of this punch as I injured my carple metacarple punching the other way. I am more of a grappler myself, so the need for a explosive punch doesn't really help be as much as a strike to take the opponents balance (which Jin's method works surprisingly well for). This way, I can make a takedown easier. If there is anything you should know about Jin, is that he is a defensive fighter. [Cont in next post]
@Warkiam - As Ive said, if you want to palm strike, then do so. But you try hitting people like Jin says, and your bound for broken fingers & possibly broken wrist as well.
I could've sworn I have psychic power; Knew you were gonna say "You're doing it wrong". Answer honestly, without using the search bar...Tell me what the carple metacarple is and what injury it is accociated with in MA. It is an injury that I would've never received if I didn't use the Wing Chun vertical punching method. As I've said, I've had no problem as of yet using this punch. That's 0 injuries w/Jin's method vs 2 Bennet's fracture and 1 sprained wrist using a vertical punch.
@taiwanoob - Yes. If you destroyed your wrist / hand... then you did it wrong. How many yrs have you conditioned your fist prior? Using sandbags w/ hard sand? What did you hit, and did you use a strike distance of over 1ft? Id almost bet money that u simply thought u could replicate the move, without any formal training & conditioning... .and theres your results for you. Sorry u had to learn the hard way, but that was your choice. Keep at it with jins method & get another injury to boot.
@xiaou2 Been boxing, and generally MMA, for 7 years prior to any Wing Chun. I've worked in Karate during that time. In that time. We worked heavy bags and that conditioned the wrist more so than any other training I have done. My Injury was 2 years after WC during a sparring match. As for the forehead... You really expect me to believe that a punch to the forehead is by any means more effective than a strike to the chin?
@taiwanoob - Heavy bags Suck4conditioning. They r soft foam/padding, pivoting/easily moveable. Wall bags a solid, just give enough on the surface 2keep knuckles safe, then all the force is reverted back into ur own fist & structure.U learned hard way, that all that gloved & soft bag work dont compare 2hitting a REAL hard person. Have som1 glove punch u in the forehead.The chin is far easier 2roll w/ a strike & isnt as direct as the skull to the brain path.
@xiaou2 Are we talking about heavybags? As in sand filled bags? The average bag should be around 70-100 pounds for an amature. Mines 180 pounds. The big ones at the gym are all 210 pounds. The only difference is we have a chain suspending it so we can stimulate rebounds and footwork realistically. Right...Come over here, I'll hit you in the chin and you roll with it. I'll let you hit me in the forehead w/my chin tucked in a full guard. Getting hit in the forehead is common in boxing.
@taiwanoob - The mass of a heavy bag matters little, if its filled with soft material, and easily pivots & moves. A real person does not move on a swinging pivot. They brace into the ground powerfully. And no forehead is soft like a heavy bad. Nor is the heavy bag capable of impact transfer like the density of human tissue. Like i said, u hit a simple 20lb sand bag mounted non-moving, and u will see its 1000x more conditioning than ANY heavy bag Period.
@xiaou2 Alright. Different training method. Different systems, I guess. Most fighters I fight are not TMArtists. They bob and weave, snub and stuff punches. They don't parry and block, root and rebound. I guess your argument boils down to "Im wrong and incompetant?", of which I don't really have an answer for unless I get to spar with you directly. Whatever works, works. Though I still stand by the fact that the chin is the better target for knockouts. Not backing down on that point. :P
@taiwanoob - Ive fought plenty of fighters of all styles. Some who do bob/weave. Many were 2x my own mass. My argument is Ive done it. Heres what u need2do2 test it. Heres the info to seek more. Ur response = I believe ur wrong, Im Not going to test it.
@xiaou2 Oi! I'm going outta my way to get a sandbag to test this out. I have been watching the videos you directed me to. It really doesn't answer the questions I seek. I believe your wrong on the chin vs forehead part. However, if you can show me otherwise....
@taiwanoob - Hitting the sandbag will prove to u how vastly diff the impact transfer is, the way it conditions & strengthens ur structure better. The kind of hitting u c in the vids isnt going to b visibly apparent. Such power is generated & dropped in a fraction of a second, so not visible to the human eye. U can only see the results.. such as the shaking of the guys legs from excess mass power involved. Or the guy dropping to the floor reeling in pain from the hit.
@taiwanoob - To get those specific levels of power output as they attain, is far more complex & takes specialized training methods, equipment, and a lot of hardcore effort. Many WC people have been given the concept, but never really fully develop & perfect the technology to the intended levels / usage. Start with the sandbag, and maybe I will release more info later.
@xiaou2 So, for the wall bag....I just fill it w/ sand from beach? Should I take the dry sand, or dig till the moist sand, or deeper still for the clay substance? I'm curious to try your sandbag.
@taiwanoob - I dug down a bit finding sand that had a bigger diameter / coarser grain. Was a little moist. Use a small window mesh screen to filter out the unwanted stuff (twigs/shells..etc). May want to let it dry out a little bit before loading it up. Playsand is too fine/soft, will leak & cloud out of the bag, possibly causing lung disease.Remember to fill it till its nearly exploding with sand. It will settle & expand the bag as u hit it.
@Warkiam - Furthermore, had you been properly trained.. and used the correct training equipment (wall mounted sandbags w/ hard grain sand) and lineaments, you never would have injured your fists. The WC punch isnt like boxings drive thru punch. Its a quick on/off mass-drop. Even an 80lb woman could use it to take a life, without injuring her fist. Thats how wc was designed. Its just rarely seen, because of misinterpretations such as seen here & lazy beginners that dont know what they are doing.
@taiwanoob - hitting w/ a palm strikes easier,not requiring much conditioning. So as said,if u dont want2condition properly&or cant use the fist, then use a palm heel.But dont mask it like a punch w/ weak structure that can break ur fingers & possibly damage wrist further.Try this folding stuff on a non-moving wall bag,over-filled w/ hard sand & u will see that it doesnt work well at all against somethin u cant move (like a small woman -vs- huge guy moving in)
@xiaou2 And don't give me some nonsense about the "energy travelling through the skull and rocking the brain itself". It doesn't work like that. As for Jin's method, I have had no problems using it thus far in sparring. You wont sprain your fingers if you don't allow them to pass where your metacarples when they're uncurled (so they don't strech on the heel of your CMC.
@xiaou2 As for the sand wallbag....I don't have one, but I'll try some expiriments. Would a normal wallbag filled with rice work? If so, I will come back with the results in 10 minutes.
@taiwanoob - Rice might be ok for a beginner, if its stuffed to the Maximum (overstuffed). But rice breaks down easily, and the grains are not packed tight, so its more gushy & too absorbent. Sand cant really compress. Its like a solid. It moves enough to make an imprint.. and thats All it moves. Also, the bag needs to be mounted on a non-absorbant backing... like a concrete wall or floor. Go to homedepot, get the coarse sand for $3 a huge bag. (not playsand, thats too fine)
@taiwanoob - In addition to my sandbags (I use very coarse sand from beach thats deeper down), I hit a bag filled with maybe 15lbs of steel bbs. Hit that right, and its like hitting a steel beam. Your fist stings in pain, turns bright red.
@xiaou2 The strike to the chin works because you snap the head, creating torque. When the head stops moving, the brain rebounds on the skull and damages itself. A properly tucked chin will not allow movement of the head when the forehead is struck. Thus no damage to the brain unless the cranium itself is damaged. Ofc you're going to get a K0 w/forehead if your guy sticks his chin up. To everybody else that knows how to tuck and gaurd, it's not going to work.
@taiwanoob - I know all that. However, it never stopped the multiple fighters Ive KOd from getting KO. And as I said, I didnt even put anything Close to full power into it. This is a different kind of power. Its the power to Rupture soft tissue. Its being able to release more power / mass in the smallest of time units.. and the body cant disperse it fast enough. We are talking 200lbs @ 35fps, all dropped in like 1/10th of a sec.
@xiaou2 There are so many chunners that work on chain punching and "explosive power" as you put it, only to be outclassed by simple boxing. It is kind of hypocritical of you to accuse Jin of being sucked into this "politcal BS", as the ONLY one that is accusing anybody with vehemence is you. He gave his reasons why he does what he does, and why he *thinks* others do what they do - and why he doesn't do that. Well, I guess we can't all agree. :S
@Warkiam - To date, at 150lbs, Ive KO'd 3 blackbelt competition fighters with a single hit WC punch. Less than 20% of my available power. From a lead hand, less than 6" distance, targeting the forehead. Thats TRUE Wing Chun. Not the garbage passed off as WC seen here. And not the crap shown from poorly trained & lazy amateurs.
@Warkiam - Finally,Theres no way a 100 lb woman is Push-Punching a charging 300lb man. Even if he was motionless,& she moved in,shes not going 2move him much if at all, Nor would there b any effect even if she could.But a correct explosive punch& that same guy will be KO, or in the morgue.&What I said was that Jin is acting like a politician.Saying/expressing 1thing,then expressing the opposite a moment later.Anyone can read the meaning between the lines & see the true attitude presented.
@xiaou2 As for a >150lb woman killing a 300lb man -whatever. I don't buy into that shit. As for K0, I introduce you to a body part known as the chin. Hit the chin, snap the head, shake the brain, and the guy will drop faster than a sludge to the forehead. However, I am willing to learn. So please, show me an example of you K0ing 3 black belt champs...I'd ask for vid, but I doubt I'll get one. So names will do, and I'll just do a search myself.
@taiwanoob - Read again. I strike the forehead. Its a more direct & conductive target to rock the brain. Its also a very solid / dense target, so u need excellent conditioning b4 even thinking about it. Then again, as u now know, u need extensive conditioning before you do Any barefist punches w/ full power. My KO's were done yrs ago when I wasnt strikin with extreme food alergies,causing me2be weak. However, I still may pop a vid up soon. Problem is, that kinda power isnt seen,only felt.
@taiwanoob - However, u can check out 'Chen Xiaowang - Fajin'. This vid shows Chen using explosive power. He generates so much power, that even his legs are shaking violently. This shows he can unite all his mass at impact/end of stroke. A 100lb woman, can hit just like a 100lb sledge hammer. Simply put, most ppl cant do this, because they dont train right nor hard enough, to achieve such effeciency, body unity, precision..etc. btw: also check Glen Levy hammer fist vid. & Erle Montaigue fajin.
"Saying/expressing 1thing,then expressing the opposite a moment later.Anyone can read the meaning between the lines & see the true attitude presented." Oh, I'm sure anyone who can read the lines themselves of what we're posting in the comments can see just who really cares about all this political "my WC is right" fiasco. Not sure understanding the subtext is entirely necessary, as you've made your position and mentality crystal clear. Good day, sir. =D
@taiwanoob - I dont sugar coat. Either somethins right or not. I state my views direct. If Im challenged,Im willing2listen&learn2make sure my knowledge is correct.I dont say "ur way isnt wrong", then proceed2tellUthat ur wrong,without any real depth of knowledge on the reasons.I know what Jins teaching & I know my way.I can tell u the diffs & thats important,as it shows greater understanding&willingness2find the real truth instead of mindlessly follow & pass on faulty information.
Finally, what hes teaching isnt a punch.Its basically a palm strike.His wrist rolls vertical, which exposes the front bottom of the wrist bone... and that is what he is using to push the person away with. His fist is loose, having no power on impact. Only AFTER his fingers and wrist have CRUMPLED (like a car body), then his wrist bone takes over. (which cant crumple.. but isnt capable of explosive force after all that absorbent crap)
@xiaou2 - so basically, do away with all that dangerous fist/wrist rolling crap, & do a palm strike instead. Its safer, and does the same exact thing... but even better.Unless ur aiming to replicate Lees demo, which is a TRUE punch to create damage impact + a push palm strike follow thru.
I also luv how he advocates use of loose fingers, then, compares that to his bent (but tightened) wrist theory. A lose wrist bending on full-power impact could get hurt. Also, the tighten isnt just to gain strength at the wrist. We shall keep that secret till later. &btw, u would NEVER catch my under 1/10th of a second tense that occurs as solid impact. NEVER.
This is the WORST WC punch advice Ive ever seen!!! Not only are u in danger of breaking ur fingers, but when u impact, u lose power at the finger collapse AND at the wrist bend. (basically, its like you are wearing sponges on your fists) The only thing left is a dull push-punch. The guy will stumble back, then come back 4more+his buddies attacking u. Jins training advice is a filled with pitfalls, that will get ppl killed if they try to use this crap.
Hey Jin! I just decided to try wing chun out using your videos as a guide. My background in martial arts is not much, just boxing and Yaw-Yan. I hope I'm good enough to learn this wing chun on my own. LOL! Anyways, after watching the vids one thing kept bothering me. How do you punch your opponents face if he is taller than you without lifting your shoulders? Thanks! =)
what I meant to say yesterday was that your punchingmethod helps me to go more fluidly from one style to another because I don't have to switch intention behind the punches now. I can stay relaxed.. while the other way I had there was this build up of explosive energy and release that screwed with my movement...
Also, a question: would you use a similarly relaxed approach upon impact when applying techniques like Jeung Sau or Gum Sau? It seems to me that if you wouldn't for these techniques, then it's probably incorrect to do so when punching. In fact even more so, since when punching there is the additional possibility of damaging a relaxed fist or wrist.
Btw, I'm not trying to put you down, I really enjoy watching your videos and I've learned a lot from them.
@NoFaithNoFear don't forget about the "stretching" the bottom part of your arm, this part is very important. so for me, it doesn't matter what strike or movement i perform, they all follow the same concept.
@chinaboxer also don't worry about questioning my method of doing things, i encourage people to explore and find their own way, and it's through the dialogue, we find better ways.
I think you're overstating the potential problem of tension in the fist/wrist leading to a reduction in the ability to feel and react to the opponent's energy during (for example) a punch. The 'tension' is a VERY short, sharp application of energy (Fa Ging), applied an instant before the moment of impact, and is used to lock the wrist and drive the technique forwards. Before and immediately after, the arm is relaxed again. If properly applied, the time during which the tension occurs is tiny.
I originally punched like this but I found any slight mistake in angle can over bend and sprain the fingers or wrist. In a fight, a moving target can make you get the wrong angle and injure your hand. Tightening at last moment protects the hand but exposes you as Jin says. So it's a trade off.
Thanks for sharing! It seems this will be a useful method for generating short range power, but I must say that your wrist h as SUPEr flexibility in that direction. I will continue to train my wrists with stretch and strengthen. It almost seems as if you are doing a kind of hammer fist as it looks liek the bulk of the impact comes from the edge of the hand.. Thanks for the insightful thoughts on making a fist!
Man I love Mike. It is obvious that Si Fu wants to make his new model apprentice be more like mike instead of being a martial arts top model. Hope he gets the apparent message.
basicly the snap at impact.. the disruptive force at impact? the idea of being able to break a board when it hangs loosely from a wire without the presence of counterpressure.. because I think the students of yip man I've seen in footage all seemed to punch using that principle in their punching. I've seen some footage of bruce lee where he also was able to put that snap in a kick and break boards with the snap. so I don't know.. the squeezing might be an attempt to get that snap in the punch.
when I look at the old footage of some wingchun masters they do not seem to punch that way.. but that doesn't mean that I think this is an invalid way of punching. I never really looked at punching that closely..but what you say makes sense...in boxing we learned to bend the wrist at moment of impact so the knuckles stick out..but I now see that it also alligned the wrist.
@Kungfumastertraining yes, also when you do the knuckle pushup the wrist is straight and still strong. if it was bent the way jin shows i dont know how well it would work or if it would be that strong..Im not knocking his tech just thinking . hitting a soft body and hard hard bag in a power punch..his tech might hurt the wrist more but we all do thing differently i dont study wing chun i study an Okinawan form called ryukyu kempo so it is apples and oranges ..both fruit but no the same
I can't say how many times I have sprained my wrist doing the vertical method on the bags... I am going to do your method from now on... thank you Sigung!! (and yes, Mike and I are going to meetup to build up on our chi sau basics later today)
hi Jin I really enjoy your videos and has been following for a while. I had a question about your fist how come you always have your index finger kind of out?
@chinaboxer try doing knuckle pushups on a wood floor in that position using the pinky side then try it with a straight wrist with the top two knuckles
@stompySharpNpointy i see what you're saying, but you're missing the point, try doing the same thing but with your fists in a vertical position rather than a horizontal position.
@chinaboxer i do both, but we both know its not the same as punching ..i'm not knocking the way you do a punch . I punch as if im hammering a nail into a wall with a hammer ..hand relaxed till the last moment..In the video it looks like when you punch the mit , your wrist is much straighter then your showing in the other part of the video. also i said i dont study wing chun so we come from different thohgts and styles my own teacher could put a 4-6" crater ina 400LB heavy punching bag :over
Also i does anyone know a good place to learn wing chun i started learning in china for about 1month while i was in china and i kinda like Wing Chun outa all the other arts
Hermitboi289Produc 3 weeks ago
how does he move his fist upward as he says stretch i can never get my wrist to bend upward?Or basicly when its 12:40-12:47 ish i really dont get how do you stretch cuz everytime i do that the bottom part of my wrist hurts or starts to not wanna cooperate when i was trying to do this while watching the video
Hermitboi289Produc 3 weeks ago
Thanks
ommozy 1 month ago in playlist More videos from chinaboxer
This method of holding the hand/wrist is a great way to break the hand/wrist! Anytime you lock a joint (such as the push-up position), a slight bit more force will break it! Duh! :)
ke6gwf 1 month ago
VERY GOOD VIDEO as always just keep it up and ill continue watching.
sesshomarucaseclosed 2 months ago
This reminds me why in Tai Chi, the palm thrust is favored over the fist, when applying body weight as the power train, for 6 or more inches of penetration. It's just really hard to transfer that much force using normal boxing palm down fists. Even vertical fists have issues. Tony Blauer also has an explanation for that whole "finger stretch" thing making the forearm stronger.
Cruelty1633 2 months ago
Hey Jin,
Amazing video, enjoyed it! I saw your previous videos on "How to make a fist" and "How to punch topic", also those when you started. Thanks to this video it makes sense HOW to set the grenade, how you used to call it.
The thing that I don't understand how to hit intermediate and low levels of the body (chest, stomach, groin) if wrist is going up. Please explain it :). Also for better understanding of the fist movement I recommend also shooting it from above, this way it could be seen
AngelofKaiN 3 months ago
@AngelofKaiN how does it bend to the side.
Also wanted to make clear, the power goes from the elbow and forearm and wrist are both soft as the blade of grass. Right?
Again thanks for your teaching.
AngelofKaiN 3 months ago
@taiwanoob - I dont care if ur head dont move or if it does. I still KO. The forces still rattle the brain. Try having ur buddies ram a 4x4 into your head at speed w/ a chin tuck. U think the brain isnt going to get that vibration?! Your obviously delusional & dont understand physics too well if you think theres no vibration happening at impact, let alone enough w/ a person able to connect nearly all 200lbs of his mass into that strike moving at +30fps.
xiaou2 3 months ago
@xiaou2 Vibrations aren't what makes the knockout. Otherwise, you'd faint by spinning too fast (and some do). The rebound on the brain is. Funnily enough I am majoring in theoretical physics. A body at rest stays at rest. Water doesn't move with waves, energy moves with waves. Your brain is going to jiggle, in the same rate as the rest of your head, and go back to its original position after the shock. No collision with skull = no surefire way for K0.
taiwanoob 3 months ago
@taiwanoob - We have seen physics ppl in fight science goof up everything. Plus, there r things the body can do, that physics ppl still dont understand. Not to mention, all ur physics knowledge didnt even realize to use sandbags would be a far better & more realistic training medium. Quite simply put, ur knowledge is skewed and flawed. There are things you & science, does not know. Go hit your sandbag, and get some real results. Go do some real physical tests: Take a hit from Chen Xiaowang.
xiaou2 3 months ago
If you all are wondering why Im so angered, its because Ive dealt with too many Sifu's like this, that claims whatever you do is 'not wrong'... And then in the same breath, tell you why your crazy / wrong in the next. AND, then tell you that they are trying to 'improve' things, yet dont listen nor even properly research other means. U can take ur political BS & shove it where it belongs...
xiaou2 3 months ago in playlist More videos from chinaboxer
@xiaou2 I happen to enjoy the application of this punch as I injured my carple metacarple punching the other way. I am more of a grappler myself, so the need for a explosive punch doesn't really help be as much as a strike to take the opponents balance (which Jin's method works surprisingly well for). This way, I can make a takedown easier. If there is anything you should know about Jin, is that he is a defensive fighter. [Cont in next post]
Warkiam 3 months ago
@Warkiam - As Ive said, if you want to palm strike, then do so. But you try hitting people like Jin says, and your bound for broken fingers & possibly broken wrist as well.
xiaou2 3 months ago
@xiaou2
I could've sworn I have psychic power; Knew you were gonna say "You're doing it wrong". Answer honestly, without using the search bar...Tell me what the carple metacarple is and what injury it is accociated with in MA. It is an injury that I would've never received if I didn't use the Wing Chun vertical punching method. As I've said, I've had no problem as of yet using this punch. That's 0 injuries w/Jin's method vs 2 Bennet's fracture and 1 sprained wrist using a vertical punch.
taiwanoob 3 months ago
@taiwanoob - Yes. If you destroyed your wrist / hand... then you did it wrong. How many yrs have you conditioned your fist prior? Using sandbags w/ hard sand? What did you hit, and did you use a strike distance of over 1ft? Id almost bet money that u simply thought u could replicate the move, without any formal training & conditioning... .and theres your results for you. Sorry u had to learn the hard way, but that was your choice. Keep at it with jins method & get another injury to boot.
xiaou2 3 months ago
@xiaou2 Been boxing, and generally MMA, for 7 years prior to any Wing Chun. I've worked in Karate during that time. In that time. We worked heavy bags and that conditioned the wrist more so than any other training I have done. My Injury was 2 years after WC during a sparring match. As for the forehead... You really expect me to believe that a punch to the forehead is by any means more effective than a strike to the chin?
taiwanoob 3 months ago
@taiwanoob - Heavy bags Suck4conditioning. They r soft foam/padding, pivoting/easily moveable. Wall bags a solid, just give enough on the surface 2keep knuckles safe, then all the force is reverted back into ur own fist & structure.U learned hard way, that all that gloved & soft bag work dont compare 2hitting a REAL hard person. Have som1 glove punch u in the forehead.The chin is far easier 2roll w/ a strike & isnt as direct as the skull to the brain path.
xiaou2 3 months ago
@xiaou2 Are we talking about heavybags? As in sand filled bags? The average bag should be around 70-100 pounds for an amature. Mines 180 pounds. The big ones at the gym are all 210 pounds. The only difference is we have a chain suspending it so we can stimulate rebounds and footwork realistically. Right...Come over here, I'll hit you in the chin and you roll with it. I'll let you hit me in the forehead w/my chin tucked in a full guard. Getting hit in the forehead is common in boxing.
taiwanoob 3 months ago
@taiwanoob - The mass of a heavy bag matters little, if its filled with soft material, and easily pivots & moves. A real person does not move on a swinging pivot. They brace into the ground powerfully. And no forehead is soft like a heavy bad. Nor is the heavy bag capable of impact transfer like the density of human tissue. Like i said, u hit a simple 20lb sand bag mounted non-moving, and u will see its 1000x more conditioning than ANY heavy bag Period.
xiaou2 3 months ago
@xiaou2 Alright. Different training method. Different systems, I guess. Most fighters I fight are not TMArtists. They bob and weave, snub and stuff punches. They don't parry and block, root and rebound. I guess your argument boils down to "Im wrong and incompetant?", of which I don't really have an answer for unless I get to spar with you directly. Whatever works, works. Though I still stand by the fact that the chin is the better target for knockouts. Not backing down on that point. :P
taiwanoob 3 months ago
@taiwanoob - Ive fought plenty of fighters of all styles. Some who do bob/weave. Many were 2x my own mass. My argument is Ive done it. Heres what u need2do2 test it. Heres the info to seek more. Ur response = I believe ur wrong, Im Not going to test it.
xiaou2 3 months ago
@xiaou2 Oi! I'm going outta my way to get a sandbag to test this out. I have been watching the videos you directed me to. It really doesn't answer the questions I seek. I believe your wrong on the chin vs forehead part. However, if you can show me otherwise....
taiwanoob 3 months ago
@taiwanoob - Hitting the sandbag will prove to u how vastly diff the impact transfer is, the way it conditions & strengthens ur structure better. The kind of hitting u c in the vids isnt going to b visibly apparent. Such power is generated & dropped in a fraction of a second, so not visible to the human eye. U can only see the results.. such as the shaking of the guys legs from excess mass power involved. Or the guy dropping to the floor reeling in pain from the hit.
xiaou2 3 months ago
@taiwanoob - To get those specific levels of power output as they attain, is far more complex & takes specialized training methods, equipment, and a lot of hardcore effort. Many WC people have been given the concept, but never really fully develop & perfect the technology to the intended levels / usage. Start with the sandbag, and maybe I will release more info later.
xiaou2 3 months ago
@xiaou2 So, for the wall bag....I just fill it w/ sand from beach? Should I take the dry sand, or dig till the moist sand, or deeper still for the clay substance? I'm curious to try your sandbag.
taiwanoob 3 months ago
@taiwanoob - I dug down a bit finding sand that had a bigger diameter / coarser grain. Was a little moist. Use a small window mesh screen to filter out the unwanted stuff (twigs/shells..etc). May want to let it dry out a little bit before loading it up. Playsand is too fine/soft, will leak & cloud out of the bag, possibly causing lung disease.Remember to fill it till its nearly exploding with sand. It will settle & expand the bag as u hit it.
xiaou2 3 months ago
@Warkiam - Furthermore, had you been properly trained.. and used the correct training equipment (wall mounted sandbags w/ hard grain sand) and lineaments, you never would have injured your fists. The WC punch isnt like boxings drive thru punch. Its a quick on/off mass-drop. Even an 80lb woman could use it to take a life, without injuring her fist. Thats how wc was designed. Its just rarely seen, because of misinterpretations such as seen here & lazy beginners that dont know what they are doing.
xiaou2 3 months ago
@xiaou2 This, btw, is my other YT acc... Incase you are confused.
taiwanoob 3 months ago
@taiwanoob - hitting w/ a palm strikes easier,not requiring much conditioning. So as said,if u dont want2condition properly&or cant use the fist, then use a palm heel.But dont mask it like a punch w/ weak structure that can break ur fingers & possibly damage wrist further.Try this folding stuff on a non-moving wall bag,over-filled w/ hard sand & u will see that it doesnt work well at all against somethin u cant move (like a small woman -vs- huge guy moving in)
xiaou2 3 months ago
@xiaou2 And don't give me some nonsense about the "energy travelling through the skull and rocking the brain itself". It doesn't work like that. As for Jin's method, I have had no problems using it thus far in sparring. You wont sprain your fingers if you don't allow them to pass where your metacarples when they're uncurled (so they don't strech on the heel of your CMC.
taiwanoob 3 months ago
@xiaou2 As for the sand wallbag....I don't have one, but I'll try some expiriments. Would a normal wallbag filled with rice work? If so, I will come back with the results in 10 minutes.
taiwanoob 3 months ago
@taiwanoob - Rice might be ok for a beginner, if its stuffed to the Maximum (overstuffed). But rice breaks down easily, and the grains are not packed tight, so its more gushy & too absorbent. Sand cant really compress. Its like a solid. It moves enough to make an imprint.. and thats All it moves. Also, the bag needs to be mounted on a non-absorbant backing... like a concrete wall or floor. Go to homedepot, get the coarse sand for $3 a huge bag. (not playsand, thats too fine)
xiaou2 3 months ago
@taiwanoob - In addition to my sandbags (I use very coarse sand from beach thats deeper down), I hit a bag filled with maybe 15lbs of steel bbs. Hit that right, and its like hitting a steel beam. Your fist stings in pain, turns bright red.
xiaou2 3 months ago
@xiaou2 The strike to the chin works because you snap the head, creating torque. When the head stops moving, the brain rebounds on the skull and damages itself. A properly tucked chin will not allow movement of the head when the forehead is struck. Thus no damage to the brain unless the cranium itself is damaged. Ofc you're going to get a K0 w/forehead if your guy sticks his chin up. To everybody else that knows how to tuck and gaurd, it's not going to work.
taiwanoob 3 months ago
@taiwanoob - I know all that. However, it never stopped the multiple fighters Ive KOd from getting KO. And as I said, I didnt even put anything Close to full power into it. This is a different kind of power. Its the power to Rupture soft tissue. Its being able to release more power / mass in the smallest of time units.. and the body cant disperse it fast enough. We are talking 200lbs @ 35fps, all dropped in like 1/10th of a sec.
xiaou2 3 months ago
@xiaou2 There are so many chunners that work on chain punching and "explosive power" as you put it, only to be outclassed by simple boxing. It is kind of hypocritical of you to accuse Jin of being sucked into this "politcal BS", as the ONLY one that is accusing anybody with vehemence is you. He gave his reasons why he does what he does, and why he *thinks* others do what they do - and why he doesn't do that. Well, I guess we can't all agree. :S
Warkiam 3 months ago
@Warkiam - To date, at 150lbs, Ive KO'd 3 blackbelt competition fighters with a single hit WC punch. Less than 20% of my available power. From a lead hand, less than 6" distance, targeting the forehead. Thats TRUE Wing Chun. Not the garbage passed off as WC seen here. And not the crap shown from poorly trained & lazy amateurs.
xiaou2 3 months ago
@Warkiam - Finally,Theres no way a 100 lb woman is Push-Punching a charging 300lb man. Even if he was motionless,& she moved in,shes not going 2move him much if at all, Nor would there b any effect even if she could.But a correct explosive punch& that same guy will be KO, or in the morgue.&What I said was that Jin is acting like a politician.Saying/expressing 1thing,then expressing the opposite a moment later.Anyone can read the meaning between the lines & see the true attitude presented.
xiaou2 3 months ago
@xiaou2 As for a >150lb woman killing a 300lb man -whatever. I don't buy into that shit. As for K0, I introduce you to a body part known as the chin. Hit the chin, snap the head, shake the brain, and the guy will drop faster than a sludge to the forehead. However, I am willing to learn. So please, show me an example of you K0ing 3 black belt champs...I'd ask for vid, but I doubt I'll get one. So names will do, and I'll just do a search myself.
taiwanoob 3 months ago
@taiwanoob - Read again. I strike the forehead. Its a more direct & conductive target to rock the brain. Its also a very solid / dense target, so u need excellent conditioning b4 even thinking about it. Then again, as u now know, u need extensive conditioning before you do Any barefist punches w/ full power. My KO's were done yrs ago when I wasnt strikin with extreme food alergies,causing me2be weak. However, I still may pop a vid up soon. Problem is, that kinda power isnt seen,only felt.
xiaou2 3 months ago
@taiwanoob - However, u can check out 'Chen Xiaowang - Fajin'. This vid shows Chen using explosive power. He generates so much power, that even his legs are shaking violently. This shows he can unite all his mass at impact/end of stroke. A 100lb woman, can hit just like a 100lb sledge hammer. Simply put, most ppl cant do this, because they dont train right nor hard enough, to achieve such effeciency, body unity, precision..etc. btw: also check Glen Levy hammer fist vid. & Erle Montaigue fajin.
xiaou2 3 months ago
"Saying/expressing 1thing,then expressing the opposite a moment later.Anyone can read the meaning between the lines & see the true attitude presented." Oh, I'm sure anyone who can read the lines themselves of what we're posting in the comments can see just who really cares about all this political "my WC is right" fiasco. Not sure understanding the subtext is entirely necessary, as you've made your position and mentality crystal clear. Good day, sir. =D
taiwanoob 3 months ago
@taiwanoob - I dont sugar coat. Either somethins right or not. I state my views direct. If Im challenged,Im willing2listen&learn2make sure my knowledge is correct.I dont say "ur way isnt wrong", then proceed2tellUthat ur wrong,without any real depth of knowledge on the reasons.I know what Jins teaching & I know my way.I can tell u the diffs & thats important,as it shows greater understanding&willingness2find the real truth instead of mindlessly follow & pass on faulty information.
xiaou2 3 months ago
Finally, what hes teaching isnt a punch.Its basically a palm strike.His wrist rolls vertical, which exposes the front bottom of the wrist bone... and that is what he is using to push the person away with. His fist is loose, having no power on impact. Only AFTER his fingers and wrist have CRUMPLED (like a car body), then his wrist bone takes over. (which cant crumple.. but isnt capable of explosive force after all that absorbent crap)
xiaou2 3 months ago in playlist More videos from chinaboxer
@xiaou2 - so basically, do away with all that dangerous fist/wrist rolling crap, & do a palm strike instead. Its safer, and does the same exact thing... but even better.Unless ur aiming to replicate Lees demo, which is a TRUE punch to create damage impact + a push palm strike follow thru.
xiaou2 3 months ago in playlist More videos from chinaboxer
I also luv how he advocates use of loose fingers, then, compares that to his bent (but tightened) wrist theory. A lose wrist bending on full-power impact could get hurt. Also, the tighten isnt just to gain strength at the wrist. We shall keep that secret till later. &btw, u would NEVER catch my under 1/10th of a second tense that occurs as solid impact. NEVER.
xiaou2 3 months ago in playlist More videos from chinaboxer
This is the WORST WC punch advice Ive ever seen!!! Not only are u in danger of breaking ur fingers, but when u impact, u lose power at the finger collapse AND at the wrist bend. (basically, its like you are wearing sponges on your fists) The only thing left is a dull push-punch. The guy will stumble back, then come back 4more+his buddies attacking u. Jins training advice is a filled with pitfalls, that will get ppl killed if they try to use this crap.
xiaou2 3 months ago in playlist More videos from chinaboxer
Hey Jin! I just decided to try wing chun out using your videos as a guide. My background in martial arts is not much, just boxing and Yaw-Yan. I hope I'm good enough to learn this wing chun on my own. LOL! Anyways, after watching the vids one thing kept bothering me. How do you punch your opponents face if he is taller than you without lifting your shoulders? Thanks! =)
Blaze6of9Hope 3 months ago
@7:20 ". . . the wrist is actually aligned to be like this."
random female voice: "really?"
hahaha
fuzziosh18 3 months ago
makes sense, gonna try that one =)
TheRedflowersociety 3 months ago
i wanna see some sparring vs other styles =)
mastrbutcher 3 months ago
It all started with a few videos on how to make a fist and punch...I'm glad to see a video that re-emphasizes some basic essentials. Thanks sifu.
mrobin723 3 months ago
wow thats interesting, its just like a spring
iexcalibui2 3 months ago
what I meant to say yesterday was that your punchingmethod helps me to go more fluidly from one style to another because I don't have to switch intention behind the punches now. I can stay relaxed.. while the other way I had there was this build up of explosive energy and release that screwed with my movement...
kiekert2007 3 months ago
Also, a question: would you use a similarly relaxed approach upon impact when applying techniques like Jeung Sau or Gum Sau? It seems to me that if you wouldn't for these techniques, then it's probably incorrect to do so when punching. In fact even more so, since when punching there is the additional possibility of damaging a relaxed fist or wrist.
Btw, I'm not trying to put you down, I really enjoy watching your videos and I've learned a lot from them.
NoFaithNoFear 3 months ago
@NoFaithNoFear don't forget about the "stretching" the bottom part of your arm, this part is very important. so for me, it doesn't matter what strike or movement i perform, they all follow the same concept.
chinaboxer 3 months ago
@chinaboxer also don't worry about questioning my method of doing things, i encourage people to explore and find their own way, and it's through the dialogue, we find better ways.
chinaboxer 3 months ago
I think you're overstating the potential problem of tension in the fist/wrist leading to a reduction in the ability to feel and react to the opponent's energy during (for example) a punch. The 'tension' is a VERY short, sharp application of energy (Fa Ging), applied an instant before the moment of impact, and is used to lock the wrist and drive the technique forwards. Before and immediately after, the arm is relaxed again. If properly applied, the time during which the tension occurs is tiny.
NoFaithNoFear 3 months ago
I originally punched like this but I found any slight mistake in angle can over bend and sprain the fingers or wrist. In a fight, a moving target can make you get the wrong angle and injure your hand. Tightening at last moment protects the hand but exposes you as Jin says. So it's a trade off.
webherring 3 months ago
My Sifu always describes it like you're holding sand in your hand, and you want it to just slowly leave your hand at the bottom.
Just like you described with by not curling the fingers into the fist.
jerrymonkey 3 months ago
Can you show us how you punch on the heavy bag or on a bob, would like to see what kind of force you can generate thanks,.
250hollatchcabro 3 months ago
Thanks for sharing! It seems this will be a useful method for generating short range power, but I must say that your wrist h as SUPEr flexibility in that direction. I will continue to train my wrists with stretch and strengthen. It almost seems as if you are doing a kind of hammer fist as it looks liek the bulk of the impact comes from the edge of the hand.. Thanks for the insightful thoughts on making a fist!
sloppymantis 3 months ago
Thanks. I'll try it out and see how it works for me.
Jasper50 3 months ago
Hey jin, are you going to make another video on triangle footwork?
MrTofutommy 3 months ago
someone got a new camera lol
k1eee 3 months ago
Awesome video! Thanks very much for posting!
tsi2568 3 months ago
Man I love Mike. It is obvious that Si Fu wants to make his new model apprentice be more like mike instead of being a martial arts top model. Hope he gets the apparent message.
NinjaGuyden 3 months ago
@NinjaGuyden ???
kelly980 3 months ago
@kelly980 Man Mike was a very sympathic person. Si Fu there teaches his apprentice some things while he is making the video.
NinjaGuyden 3 months ago
but I like your principles of punching. it helps me to make it work where before I did not have something I could work with.
kiekert2007 3 months ago
basicly the snap at impact.. the disruptive force at impact? the idea of being able to break a board when it hangs loosely from a wire without the presence of counterpressure.. because I think the students of yip man I've seen in footage all seemed to punch using that principle in their punching. I've seen some footage of bruce lee where he also was able to put that snap in a kick and break boards with the snap. so I don't know.. the squeezing might be an attempt to get that snap in the punch.
kiekert2007 3 months ago
when I look at the old footage of some wingchun masters they do not seem to punch that way.. but that doesn't mean that I think this is an invalid way of punching. I never really looked at punching that closely..but what you say makes sense...in boxing we learned to bend the wrist at moment of impact so the knuckles stick out..but I now see that it also alligned the wrist.
kiekert2007 3 months ago
fantastic my left hand was injured and i am now unable to make a tightly clenched fist-- trying your method really helps...
mnky26 3 months ago
@Kungfumastertraining yes, also when you do the knuckle pushup the wrist is straight and still strong. if it was bent the way jin shows i dont know how well it would work or if it would be that strong..Im not knocking his tech just thinking . hitting a soft body and hard hard bag in a power punch..his tech might hurt the wrist more but we all do thing differently i dont study wing chun i study an Okinawan form called ryukyu kempo so it is apples and oranges ..both fruit but no the same
stompySharpNpointy 3 months ago
I can't say how many times I have sprained my wrist doing the vertical method on the bags... I am going to do your method from now on... thank you Sigung!! (and yes, Mike and I are going to meetup to build up on our chi sau basics later today)
ironwirewingchun 3 months ago
hi Jin I really enjoy your videos and has been following for a while. I had a question about your fist how come you always have your index finger kind of out?
zaphor 3 months ago
@zaphor its the natural position of a completely relaxed fist
try it your index should go a little out ;)
MostWantedWannaBE 3 months ago
@chinaboxer try doing knuckle pushups on a wood floor in that position using the pinky side then try it with a straight wrist with the top two knuckles
stompySharpNpointy 3 months ago
@stompySharpNpointy thats why they do pushups with fists so they can strengthen them
he says that he doesn't need to worry about it since according to him the fist looks after it self that way ;)
get it?
also he said that its his way of doing it not the only and right way ;)
MostWantedWannaBE 3 months ago
@stompySharpNpointy i see what you're saying, but you're missing the point, try doing the same thing but with your fists in a vertical position rather than a horizontal position.
chinaboxer 3 months ago 4
@chinaboxer i do both, but we both know its not the same as punching ..i'm not knocking the way you do a punch . I punch as if im hammering a nail into a wall with a hammer ..hand relaxed till the last moment..In the video it looks like when you punch the mit , your wrist is much straighter then your showing in the other part of the video. also i said i dont study wing chun so we come from different thohgts and styles my own teacher could put a 4-6" crater ina 400LB heavy punching bag :over
stompySharpNpointy 3 months ago
sounding like a shotgun going off when he punched The form i studied was ryukyu kempo
stompySharpNpointy 3 months ago
great video jin, i do my punches this way in wing chun too! but i never noticed it until i watched this video about it (:
LOLittleHero 3 months ago
great video thank you
seklay 3 months ago
i also use this method, i came accross it(the relaxed wrist in locked position) during yoga
the handstand really demonstrates the wrist to me.
especially walking on your hands.
superb vid
sizzla123 3 months ago
funny how 2 years later there is a part two, great video.
RjEatsDogs 3 months ago 11
@RjEatsDogs hey is that really?after 2 years...thanks God,i understand now why wing chun punches different
harokahtajdid 3 months ago
Success is all about the details... very informative Sifu Jin!
jiggle17 3 months ago
how do i know that i gain a level on the bar of wing chun?From 1 to 10?
Warriorofelectric 3 months ago