PRacticing sodomy is a sin crying to heaven for revenge by God...it is not a "life style" or to be "celebrated". It is living in the gutter and these offenders need much spiritual and psychological counseling as many are mentally disturbed. Same for the left wing, non-Catholic views of the Jesuit superior.
The women priest folks like to claim there were female priests in the early Church. Can you imagine an Eastern Orthodox woman priest? Ditto for the western church tho I have been to "Masses" said by women "priests" and they were really awful. Anyway, I like my priest to face east, and I like my Catholic church altars to be high, not like Julia Child's wooden table sans the roast chicken.
The Velvet Underground and the Catholic church in the same discussion? Who would have thought it possible? Well, I'd like to throw in my 2 cents. If you like the Velvets, check out a terrific John Cale solo album, Paris 1919. It's melodic and as close as Cale came to a mainstream sound.
Sound familiar? Are there altar girls? Are there 101 Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist in secular dress playing priest? Nuns in Apache dresses and feminist long earrings with tamborines (swinging incense bowl too)? Communion in hand? Hand holding, clapping, a football stadium style Kiss of Peace complete with noise and chatter? Yes, my friend, that sounds familiar and that's why I don't attend such Liturgies.
Altar girls? No. EMs playing priest? No. Tambourines? No. Incense bowls? Just that once. Communion in hand? Yes, not only at Xavier, but at every RC church I've been to in six states, including a cathedral in Nevada. Clapping football stadium style kiss with noise and chatter? No.
But we're having a Tribute to the Velvet Underground fundraiser next month. There's nothing like hearing a church choir sing "White Light, White Heat." Too bad Lou Reed turned us down.
That sounds great because feeding the hungry and the homeless is an act of Christian charity. But you can bet on it that I won't stay for your Neo Catholic Mass, especially if that silly pagan goddess of a woman in the Apache dress is swinging an incense bowl. Give me a break. That is pure New Age bunk. Stick to the holy traditions of the ancient Church when it comes to the Liturgy; stop trying to be more modern than MOMA. It is tacky and trendy.
If we stuck to the ancient traditions, we would have female priests and married priests. Xavier doesn't try to be more modern than MoMA. We haven't had a Dada retrospective. That's scheduled for June.
The Novus Ordo is the rotting flesh of a Church gone haywire. The last fifty years have been bad ones for the Catholic Church. One has only to view the video and read the comments on this board to see that most people see this Rededication ceremony as pure liturgical abuse. I hope you are happy in your Novus Ordo Protestant Catholic religion.
Protestant Catholic religion? Why not Protestant Catholic Muslim Hindu Buddhist Jain religion? Let's throw in the Sikhs for good measure. You've been harping on this video since it went up in June 2010. Can you say O.C.D.?
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go listen to the Benedictine Monks of Santo Domingo de Silos and Marilyn Manson.
@MyBetty111 The sign of piece is optional in the OF if I remember correctly. Most of the things you list are actually prohibited in the current rubrics for the OF. The real Modernists have just taken liberty to add and take away whatever they so choose. They are in grave error. The biggest possible problem I see with the OF as it currently is, is that the missal possibly isn't strict enough. This could easily be fixed by a pope.
That sounds great because feeding the hungry and the homeless is an act of Christian charity. But you can bet on it that I won't stay for your Neo Catholic Mass, especially if that silly pagan goddess of a woman in the Apache dress is swinging an incense bowl. Give me a break. That is pure New Age bunk. Stick to the holy traditions of the ancient Church when it comes to the Liturgy; stop trying to be more modern than MOMA. It is tacky and trendy.
The Sunday Mass at Xavier is Mass. It starts with the procession of the priest and liturgical ministers. The priest gives the opening blessing and prayer. First reading, second reading, gospel reading. Sermon. Prayers of the faithful. Consecration. Paternoster. Offering of peace. Supplication before the Eucharist. Distribution of the Eucharist. Closing prayer and blessing. That's it in a nutshell. Sound vaguely familiar?
Poetry and Beyond has been monitoring this site for well over a year. Doesn't he have anything else to do? Why does he comb comments and feel the need to pick at them like a scavenger bird? Can't he leave well enough alone? Perhaps he should take a day trip to the Zoo, or attend an Orthodox Liturgy...where he will see a truly traditional apostolic service.
I've been a Xavier parishioner for four years, so it makes perfect sense for me to see what people are posting about my parish. I couldn't have chosen a better analogy than scavenger bird. Thank you. Scavenger birds eat dead, rotting flesh, so obviously you don't think very highly of your own comments.
Not to belabor the point, but I recommend that you come to Xavier and volunteer at the weekly welcome table where we feed an average of 800 meals to the needy or the monthly food pantry or the shelter for homeless men. Or volunteer as a hospitality minister at the Mass for the disabled. Or are all those activities too Novus Ordo for you?
The pagan-looking woman is a nun. Joan Baez never swung an incense bowl, just a guitar. Everybody, sing! "The night they drove old Dixie down." I can't hear you.
Will somebody tell me who that pagan looking woman is in long earrings swinging the incense boat? Only a priest should be using incense. And it should NOT be a bowl of incense but an incense boat on a chain. This video is why people don't go to Mass anymore. Liturgical abuses like this have destroyed the American Catholic Church. NO wonder why Catholics are turning to Eastern Orthodoxy.
This is pure horse crap. Why is that McBeth-style Novus Ordo woman in long earrings swinging an incense bowl? Is she a witch? A non-habit weaing Novus Ordo nun? What is she doing there? Only a priest should be swinging the incense boat. This looks like New Age crap. Shame on this church. It is really a Protestant congregation with Neo Catholic trappings. Sad. Very sad. And the apathetic "anything goes" congregation--they just sit there and accept this crap--is to be pitied.
You've been posting the exact same comments since last year. Don't you think it's time to move on? What do you do all day? Maybe it's time you looked for a job or volunteered at a hospital. You have way too much free time on your hands.
And by the way, it's Macbeth, not McBeth. Spend some of your free time reading Shakespeare.
This is pure Protestant Novus Ordo bunk. Why is there that woman in long earrings waving around a portable incense boat? She looks like a witch out of McBeth! This is really Novus Ordo modernist garbage. The so called altar is just a table. No head coverings on the women and the Cardinal is waving his arms around like an evangelical preacher.
Dolan is having his problems now with financial irregularities Milwaukee. This just adds fuel to the fire. I'll bet my shoes that he was covering up homosexual priest-pedophiles, and paying off the victims.
I love it when they use the meaningless word 'disenfranchised'. I attended Xavier HS in the 1970's when it's decline began. I was shocked at the amount of homosexual Jesuits that were teaching there at the time. I remember the drill team getting JUG for cutting their hair short at the beginning of their season. My first week my religion teacher wanted a composition on masturbation - what we fantasized about and how often we did it. It was once a very fine institution that has long died.
I attended Xavier in the 70s. No teacher I had ever assigned such a composition. Religion wasn't taught at Xavier. Theology was. Getting your hair cut short = gay priest? Sorry no. While we're on the subject, I don't believe the drill team got JUG for short haircuts. If anything, students got in trouble if their hair wasn't above their ears. I think you mean "its decline" not "it's decline," which means "it is decline." Xavier HS and Xavier Church are separate entities.
I just read your reply. I admire and commend you on your discretion. You must have attended the school after I did. I was there in the early 70s. We never had religion class. It was called theology. It must have changed after my graduation. Interestingly enough, I had two lay teachers for theology.
This is disgusting! I hope Pope Benedict XVI sees this video, and takes action against this parish, and all involved in the sacrileges that are going on there. How can a parish like this even call itself Catholic, or even Christian? Lev. 18:22, Is. 3:9...And how did this Egan even become a cardinal?
You seem to know Xavier well. Please list, in alphabetical order if you like, the sacrileges that are occurring in the parish. I'm going to take it for granted that you've attended Mass at Xavier or are you just omniscient?
@poetryandbeyond No I do not attend Xavier, nor am I omniscient, but letting known unrepentant homosexuals receive the Eucharist is one of the most abominable things I've ever heard of. And this bishop and/or cardinal supports these known homosexuals, who were headed out to celebrate their Gay pride week right after that Mass. This would never ever be tolerated in a parish like the one I attend, which offers both the Ordinary and Extraordinary forms of the Mass.
Define "known unrepentant homosexual." The church proscribes sexual activity outside marriage. It says nothing about orientation. Should unmarried straight couples be denied the Eucharist unless they sign an affidavit swearing they don't engage in premarital sex? By your standard, I would say yes. The gay parishioners who take part in the Gay Pride parade don't shake their groove thing. They evangelize. Xavier is not a "whites only" country club.
@poetryandbeyond Known unrepentant homosexual: a person who is known to be a homosexual, and is known to engage in homosexual acts, and who refuses to repent from these acts, even though he/she knows they're gravely sinfull.
And yes, the same rules apply to straight, but unmarried couples who engage in sexual acts.
Both the Bible and the CCC clearly state that both fornication and homosexuality are sins which can lead you to eternal damnation.
@Poetryandbeyond You want an alphabetical list of the sacrileges going on at Xavier? You don't even have to attend Xavier to make an accurate list, because they're all in the video.
B: bishop, priest, and cardinal all supporting homosexuals;
H: homosexuals and their supporters receiving the Eucharist;
L: Lesbian "Catholic" group;
liturgical dancers, which have no place at any Mass, OF or EF...
I disagree. There is no sacrilege on display in the video. The Vatican doesn't proscribe homosexual orientation. Xavier doesn't promote gay activity. It ministers to Catholics who are gay. Until you get a sworn affidavit that a gay person is inactive, the person cannot rightly be denied the Eucharist.
If you were injured and a gay man offered to take you to the hospital, would you say no and tell him to find someone who's straight?
Poetryandbeyond To answer your first question, of course not. And your point would be, what?
To answer your second question, first of all, it's an altar, not a table. Second, in one of the Pauline letters, it is specificly said that if anyone is involved in certain sins, homosexuality included, but claims to be a Christian, not to even eat with them. The word 'eat' is likely referring to the Eucharist.
Of course not? If God reviles homosexuals, why would you accept help from one?
Don't go literal on me. Jesus didn't have his meals at an altar. The Last Supper was held at a table.
Re: 1 Corinthians. Please translate the original Greek word, as "homosexual" didn't exist till the 19th C. The same list adds the greedy, so Wall Street barons are damned, too. Why doesn't anyone say it?
@poetryandbeyond You and your parish are in open disobedience to both God and the Pope. Leviticus 18:22 is clearer than the light of day, yet you fail to address it. Do you openly challenge God's own words?
Nonsense. That pertained to continuance of the tribe. I assume you abstain from pork, shellfish and even rabbit, as that book demands. If you have a boil or a burn, do you run to the priest so he can examine it?
Leviticus is the book of laws. Jesus freed us from the law. Nothing in the gospels deals with homosexuality.
One more thing. I think you and some of the others on this string are way, way, WAY too obsessed with gay people.
@poetryandbeyond No, I'm not obsessed with Gay people, but I am obsessed with the fact that there are sacrileges going on at Xavier, and they need to stop. Gay people just happen to be in the middle of it. Just remember what happened to Sodom...
Then go stop them. Who's standing in your way? As long as you bring up Sodom, Lot did his daughters no favors by offering them up to be raped, nor did they do him (or themselves) any favors by getting him drunk and taking turns sleeping with him.
According to Ezekial 16:49, the sins of Sodom were pride, gluttony and lavish living. Sounds more like Goldman Sachs and less like Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, doesn't it?
And how can you support such a wicked thing as homosexual acts, and nullify the word of God for the sake of supporting those acts, then have the nerve to go up and receive our Lord? I don't see any problem with having friends who are Gay, but the problem comes if you support their sinful acts.
"They proclaim their sin like Sodom" Yeah. and? What's the sin? I don't poll parishioners on how they conduct their lives, so I don't know what they're doing. I concern myself with myself. You don't like it? Tough toenails. If God has an issue with me, it's between God and me. You're not part of the equation. Nor is anyone else on the planet. Got it?
As for your "some of my best friends are gay"-type line, give it a rest.
@poetryandbeyond I'm just trying to worn you as a brother, like the Bible says. If you want to persist in supporting evil acts, even after a brother in Christ has warned you, then yes, that's between you and God, but be warned, you may have to answer to God if you persist in supporting these acts. Have a good day.
Just saw this. Wicked is a small coterie of Wall St. types gaming the system to enrich themselves and causing people to lose their homes and jobs. Wicked is a family one medical bill away from bankruptcy because it can't afford insurance. Wicked is poor children going hungry. Life begins at conception. Does it end at birth? Wicked is the Westboro "church" tormenting mourners at funerals with its psychotic antics. Two men in love? Hardly in the same category.
@RegainedParadise Two men or two women practicing homosexual acts are equally as wicked as what the WBC do at funerals. In fact, it is one of the worst of abominations in the Bible.
How can you and people like Poetryandbeyond even claim to be Catholics let alone Christians and spew out the garbage that you do?
The same way you can sit in overfed self-satisfaction, glorify yourself as Catholic 2.0 and judge others. How can such a proud and judgmental church diva call himself a Catholic, let alone a Christian?
I just looked up the 10 Commandments. Nowhere does it say "Thou shalt not like 'South Pacific.'"
@RegainedParadise It is not me who makes these judgements, but rather, it is Scripture and the CCC. Any priest or bishop in good standing with Rome would deny any known unrepentant practicing homosexual the Eucharist. The Bible says that homosexual acts are an abomination, and the CCC says that they are a mortal sin.
"Known practicing homosexual." Sounds like the USSR. How does the priest know what anyone, gay or straight, is doing unless he asks?
Just because you read the Bible doesn't mean you're a good Christian or even that you understand it. I read From the Earth to the Moon, but that doesn't make me an astronaut.
When I was a child, missing Mass was a sin, which put it on a par with murder, also a mortal sin. Kind of silly, no?
I'm not done. In December, gays and lesbians from Xavier spent an evening wrapping Christmas gifts for disadvantaged children. You're right. That's wicked. We should have burned those gifts so the kids didn't get gay cooties. One Sunday, gays from Xavier volunteered at the welcome table to serve food to the needy. You're right. That's wicked. A couple of homeless men started singing show tunes after they ate.
Actually, let me help. I guess the weekly welcome table, monthly food pantry, the shelter for homeless men and the Mass for the disabled are all disgraceful and damn it, we must put a stop to them. No real Catholic would dare have anything to do with the unfortunate, helpless and despised. We Catholics are the original Tea Party. It's about me, me, me, me, me, me. Are you listening??? IT'S ABOUT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After researching this, I think the pope is rather against the homosexual acts of priests that have damaged the church in the view of most people. The church to me is a sanctuary to anyone needing shelter and help. The world and people's perception is constantly changing with the times. Our moralities need to change and adapt accordingly. I love that my church is progressive and welcoming to anyone needing spiritual counsel and love.
I was an alter boy at SFX in the late 60's. To this day, outside of St Patricks Cathedral, Sf Francis Xavier church still is the most beautiful church I have ever had the pleasure to attend. I am pleased beyond words to see my church look so great and to see it packed with parishoners. On the topic of homosexuality, the current vatican stance is quite clearly against homosexual acts. To see SFX welcome gays and lesbians is confusing. Is SFX operating against the vatican's edict?
This is the problem we have with many of our self-styled "religious" people like "WatchingMedia1". They are all caught up in the institutional "rules" and "laws" of the church and forget all about the more important things that Christ taught us: Love, mercy, brotherhood, compassion, understanding, and ofcourse, NOT THROWING STONES AT OTHERS.
Choirs and musicians have traditionally been in the rear of the church, not alongside the sacred altar. The latter = liturgical innovation after Vatican II. Why is this so hard to understand?
As I said before, I have been to Mass at Roman Catholic churches in at least six states, including two cathedrals. The singers and musicians have all been up front and to the side. Maybe the fact there was no place for them in the back of the church had something to do with it. Be that as it may, the location of the choir didn't disrupt what was transpiring on the altar,
This is sad, and a promotion of sacrilege of the body of our Lord in the Eucharist. How can they tell themselves it's okay to do such things and then still go up to receive communion. Next thing you know there's going to be a Catholic pro-abortion committee in our parishes. Please pray for these people.
I just logged onto the USCCB website. There is a big banner across the top that reads "How is the Catholic Church combating sexual abuse?" There's a valid reason it's there. That's not a personal opinion. There's documentation.
The "CATECHISM of the Catholic Church, Second Edition" is very clear that under no circumstances can homosexual acts be approved. #2357
Anyone participating in or supporting homosexual actions are in a state of mortal sin, and can not receive Holy Communion without committing sacrilege. #2120 and #1868
You are absolutely correct. NO ONE may receive Holy Communion in a state of Mortal sin.
If so, they would be commiting Sacrilege.
Sexual acts are reserved for married persons only - defined as between one man and one woman.
It would be best if you read the CCC and then discussed it with your Bishop.
Xavior has not preached from the pulput that homosexual acts are sinful, and told all parishoners to read the CCC., nor do they have a link to the CCC on their web site.
@WatchingMedia1 if there born gay but dont have sex acts i guess its ok too accept them its if they act on there compulsions thats a sin same as a hetrosexual preist if he dont have sex with a woman hes not sinning. but being gay shouldnt be promoted or overly advertized but only god is the judge god bless
To reiterate what I posted several weeks ago, Xavier is not a country club that prizes exclusion. We worship a loving, welcoming God, not a God who is vain, selfish, angry, vindictive and cruel. The former is the Father that Jesus espoused, not a celestial Idi Amin.
Poetry and Beyond, you are funny but deluded. Read Michael Davies, Malachi Martin. There is a massive return to tradition happening all over the world.
Deluded? Moi? Au contraire. You speak of the Latin rite, but the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s permitted the use of the vernacular. As I mentioned earlier, I've been to Mass in at least six states. Every Mass was in English, and every priest faced the congregation. The placement of the choir seems more an issue of feng shui than religiosity.
The first churches were also in caves, does this mean Catholics should build caves instead of churches. Your logic is twisted. The Mass is a sacrifice, it symbolizes Calvary, it is NOT a casual meal. People who believe it is a meal do not believe in the Real Presence. Read Malachi Martin.
What is the Pope going to do? INsist that the choir be moved to the rear of the church where it has always been (traditionally) for centuries? The trendy idea of putting musicians and the choir alongside the altar and the priest is a NEW thing, and it clutters the altar are3a, and makes stars out of the choir and the musicians. The Mass is not an MTV show. Choirs belong in the rear of the church.
You can't be serious. Do you honestly think he just showed up that day and said "Tell me where to go"? The arrangements were made long in advance of the Mass day. And I guaranatee you the Pope's representatives knew every detail of that event down to the placement of the candles.
Vatican II did not call for the destruction of Catholic church interiros. Read Michael Rose's book, Ugly as Sin, on post-Vatican II architecture. Yes, your church has kept the high altar--good for your church, but other churches have not. Julia Child's table is too pedestrian anyway. The Mass is not a meal, it is a sacrifice!
Protestant-style liturgy: A plain table rather than a high altar; too many lay ministers standing around the altar in secular clothing; women/liturgical dancers swinging incense bowls; handshaking mayhem at the Kiss of Peace; no incense; tacky Newchurch hymns in place of traditional chant; communion in the hand; altar girls. The list is endless. Thank God for the Traditional Latin Mass and the Eastern Catholic Church, where there are no trendy innovations.
Sorry, but plain tables facing the congregation are not endemic to Xavier. They are in other RC churches. As a matter of fact, if you watch the daily Mass on EWTN, you will see a plain table facing the communicants. By the way, Xavier does have a high altar. The lay Eucharistic ministers compensate for a dwindling population of priests. It is permitted. What "tacky newchurch (not a word - i think you meant new church) hymn" did you hear in the clip?
@MyBetty111 The Ordinary Form AKA the Novus Ordo is not the problem. It's people like the people who are having this "Mass" that are the real problem. The return of the TLM to this parish would definitely straighten things out, but the TLM isn't the only valid and licit form of the Mass. There are plenty of reverent OF Masses, like the ones on EWTN for example.
Obviously when the Pope came to Saint Patrick's he could not insist that the cathedral move the choir to the rear of the church. He had to play the "game" as it was presented to him. US bishops have taken extraordinary liberties in the Liturgy, the design of churches, altar girls and so forth. (The Pope forbade altar girls but the US bishops disobeyed him). The list is endless. Lay women carrying around bowls of incense is not Catholic--it is Newchurch Novus Ordo, a liturgical abuse.
Novus Ordo Newchurch with a Protestant style liturgy. Why is it that parishes that opt to be openly friendly to gays and lesbians always have an awful, Protestant style liturgy? Eucharistic ministers should NOT wear secular clothing when they distribute Communion. This looks like a really predictable Novus Ordo parish. Awful.
As a Xavier parishioner, I can't tell you how ridiculous you sound. Protestant-style? How so? I attend Mass there every Sunday. I also have attended Mass in NJ, Nevada, Louisiana and Vermont, as well as Xavier, and all the churches, Xavier included, have the same Mass. By the way, the singers at the churches in NJ, Nevada and Vermont stand at the front. When Pope Benedict said Mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral in NY, the choir was up front. Is he not Catholic enough for you?
On what basis do you make such a sweeping statement? How is Xavier's liturgy Protestant? You write with such certainty, you must have attended services at Xavier and are basing your assessment on first-hand observation. Please enlighten us all with the results of your in-depth research.
@MyBetty111 It could be that your area doesn't offer any reverent OF Masses, which would be a shame. At the parish I attend, the choir is in the back, and musical settings of the Mass like Missa De Angelis, and the Rossini Propers, are still used even at our 11 o'clock OF. It's really sad if you've never attended a reverent OF. When attending the EF, you should attend one said by a priest in good standing with Rome.
Typical Novus Ordo mess. Liturgical dancing style women with swirling incense boats. An altar table, no high altar. Potato sack Novus Ordo vestments. An emphasis on social justice rather than personal salvation. I bet the Mass is very Protestant looking. Thank God people are returning to tradition. The choir also belongs in the REAR of the church.
PS - When Christ was 12 and taught the Scriptures in the Temple, He proclaimed that "today in your hearing the Scripture is fulfilled." He was telling them that the Messiah they had long awaited had come and it was He. They could not accept the grace that was given to them and so did not accept the Truth. He was not a Jewish heresy, he was the Jewish fulfillment. Contrast that to Simeon, who recognized Him at once. Think about which side you are on. .
Webster definition of "essence": a basic underlying or constituting entity. Definition of "essential": having or realizing in itself the essence of its kind.
In other words, one essential truth: Christ is Lord. Unless you accept that, you are not a Christian, and all the other truths are hardly essential.
He proclaimed Himself the Messiah and freed His followers from the law. That most certainly was heretical behavior at the time.
"The Catholic Church professes one essential truth: Christ is Lord." Wrong again, poet. The Catholic Church professes all of Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magesterium to be essential Truths. It's time for you to start your own religion. Leave us Catholics and our sacred Churches out of it.
"In other words, unless one meets your criteria to be a Christian, one must be driven away." No, poetry. You've got it wrong. Unless one believes in what the Catholic Church professes to be true, he/she is not a Catholic. Simple as that. Common sense. I disagree with the core beliefs of Judaism, for example - hence, it would never occur to me to identify myself as Jewish. I wouldn't try to distort/subvert another's faith by putting myself and my own ideas at the center of the universe.
"I disagree with the core beliefs of Judaism." The entire Old Testament, which generally provides the first of three readings at the Mass, is Judaic scripture. Christ thought of himself and practiced as a Jew who challenged established authority. Christianity essentially began as a Jewish heresy. The term Christian first appears in Acts, which takes place well after Christ's earthly tenure. But you knew all that.
The Catholic Church professes one essential truth: Christ is Lord.
Poet/Matt/host: Re your gay lifestyle I'll tell you something your Pastor will not. God loves you. God created you. God created your intellect. He created your body. You are better than that (the sinful lifestyle). Don't sell yourself short! Do some research about why the CC requires all people outside of a valid marriage to be chaste. Reform your life, go to confession to a faithful priest, and receive Communion worthily. You'll have a clear heart and conscience. Then praise Jesus!
Whatever you mean by it, you are assuming we're all engaged in a gay lifestyle. Is that not a little presumptuous? I welcome the presence of the disabled at Xavier. I am not disabled.
(Fatima Prayer) The Pardon Prayer: My God, I believe, I adore, I trust and I love Thee! I ask pardon for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not trust, and do not love Thee.
As for you, perhaps you were never taught the truth. You may have been the student of a twisted take on the Church. You may be a pawn in someone else's agenda. Have you ever considered going to another church or becoming an atheist, to satisfy your craving to reign supreme? You have no right to hijack my Church. If you have come to rob me I will stand up and defend my Church.
To reiterate my response to another poster below, locate the passages in the gospels where Christ talks of homosexuality. He doesn't. What he does inveigh against are the proud and the self-righteous.
@poetryandbeyond There are many things Christ talked about and did, but not everything can be part of Scripture or it woul be never ending. This is where we rely on Tradition handed down from the Apostles and the Church fathers.
You miss the point, poetryandbeyond. Either that or you purposely choose not to stick to the topic. By your logic, if Hitler fed the poor, the Holocaust doesn't matter. If a well-known mafia chief buys ice cream for kids, his murders don't matter. The point is that active gay agenda is not unnoticed or discounted because you hand out bread to the poor. You can do that in a secular setting with no intention of honoring God. At least then, some honesty might enter in.
Hitler didn't feed the poor, so the analogy is not only shallow, but idiotic. My point is that Xavier, a Roman Catholic parish, is living Christ's teachings, which do not deny mercy and love to those who crave it. Xavier does not promote an active gay agenda, whatever that's supposed to mean. What it does promote is a welcoming forum for worship to those who otherwise - apparently, by the likes of you - would be marginalized. Christ sat at dinner with the marginalized.
Why would anyone think this parish is in defiance of Catholic teachings? This parish embraces Catholic teaching by extending a welcome to those people who would not be welcomed elsewhere. Compare this parish to your own, do you feed people who need it? Do you provide a homeless shelter? Do you welcome those on the edge of society? If they were doing something wrong it would not be broadcast on video and for everyone to see. You have ears but do not hear to the gospel.
Mattdeos: It is YOU who have brought your bedrooms to US by holding parades where many participants galavant in little more than underwear and simulate gay relations - for all the world to see. The Gay Pride Paraders are the most unashamedly, hyper-sexual, in-your-face group known to man. Are you proud of that? You don't think that offends God? It is heinous that a Catholic parish would participate in such human degradation.
And what is your stand on degradations like poverty, hunger, homelessness, torture and war? I don't think Christ looked too kindly on them. Xavier takes great strides through its shelter, welcome table and food pantry to clothe, feed and offer comfort to people who are desperately poor, ill and distraught. What is your personal contribution to that struggle?
catholichost: Just like catholicarchangel, I too turned my back on Church teachings for many years. Once I embraced and obeyed the Truth of the Church, my life became ordered again (i.e., God first). People like archangel want to help, not hurt you. Why don't you at least attempt to live an authentic Catholic life and then see how you feel? No need to be angry and attack. BTW, it's an act of mercy to correct a sinner.
P.S. Let's remember that the CC is CLEAR on the teachings of homosexuality. Chaste gays are not in sin. Those in an active gay lifestyle are in mortal sin and are forbidden to receive Communion. THAT is what we MUST believe if we are to identify ourselves as Catholic. And no-a "liberal" pastor or bishop cannot change that truth. Fr Costantino might "see the rainbow", Dolan might give a thumbs-up - but all that means is they are in grave error, not that they can change Jesus' teachings.
I defy you to show where in the four gospels Jesus makes any mention at all of homosexuality. He doesn't.
The true hypocrites are those who stand proudly and belligerently decide who is deserving of God's love while draping themselves in a cloak of self-righteousness that they themselves made.
@poetryandbeyond "The true hypocrites are those who stand proudly and belligerently decide who is deserving of God's love while draping themselves in a cloak of self-righteousness
that they themselves made."
And that is EXACTLY what these Gay "Catholics" are doing.
Egan and the others involved are enabling these people to dance with the Devil, but still drink of the cup of the Lord...
C/host: Let me say that I agree with the sentiments of truism, et al. They are not in defiance of the hierarchy; it is indeed you are in defiance of the teachings of Catholicism, the Pope and God's Commandments. I would like to ask you an honest question as a person who believes that those born gay are as much God's children and loved by Him as anyone. Why do you insist on subverting the teachings of the C.C.? Why not either live a chaste life or join a rel. that supports active homosexuality?
@1600ny Because people like him (her) are too prideful to put themselves aside and follow God's will. Before my return to the Faith one thing I loved was being with many women, I could care less about them, but God humbled me and showed me my err. I didn't come into the Church promoting a "players" life-style, but I changed my ways.
@poetryandbeyond I never claimed to be a humble person, but at that moment when God showed me my err I was humbled through His grace to be able to see my wrong doing. I would rather proclaim that the Lord has givin me the gift of humilty rather than proclaiming that God accepts my sinful lifestyle.
If you feel humbled by grace and are willing to bear witness to your own wrongdoing, then I commend you. What I do not commend is someone who takes it upon himself or herself to decide who is worthy of being a follower of Christ. That is between the individual and Christ, no one else.
@poetryandbeyond Actually you are wrong, if someone feels that the Catholic Church is not the right way to God then so be it, thats their choice and I would not force them to be in the Church. But when you enter into the Faith that has been around 2000 years, and you take it uppon yourself to choose what teachings you want to follow and not only that but promote a sinful life and call for a change that would be heresy, well then my friend thats where you and like-minded people are wrong
The Church of St. Francis Xavier is right for me, not to mention many others. That's why I'm a parishioner. It is not up for discussion, neither with you nor anyone else. To reiterate what I wrote in an earlier posting, we worship a welcoming, loving God, not a snarling bully throwing a perpetual temper tantrum.
Before you house yourself in your imagined cocoon of celestial light, I suggest you curtail your search for sin in others. Act like the Christian you claim to be.
@poetryandbeyond If you want to continue being a pick and choose catholic than so be it, but don't get mad when the Vatican finally comes down on this Church. I will continue to live my life (through God's grace) as the Church wants me to, with the laws and teachings of Jesus Christ. May God bless and hopefully one day you will see the truth of God and not your truth.
The Vatican has far greater things to concern itself with than the benign desire of gays and lesbians to worship. I refer you to the front page of today's edition of The New York Times, specifically to a lengthy article about the Church hierarchy's failure to investigate and stop the abuse of children by priests. Those clerics and their superiors are the ones who've acted contrary to Christ's ministry and - to borrow the words of another poster - desecrated the Mass.
@poetryandbeyond The New York Times! really? That's one of the worst media outlets when it comes to the Catholic Churches, twice already it's been busted with putting out false news about the Church. You still don't get it do you? You think that I am against gays comming into the Church and worshipping and living the Gospel according to the REAL teachings of the Catholic Church? It's not that at all! I am against gays, liberals, conservatice, or anyone who comes into the Church and
I'd like you to cite the two instances where the NY Times was "busted" for publishing false reports about the Church. If you don't like the NY Times, I suggest you try any number of media outlets that have carried similar news. Pretending it never happened doesn't mean it never happened.
@poetryandbeyond expecting the Church to change her 2000 year old teachings according to their sinful lifestyles. This my freind is what I and true Catholics are against! GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. Quit using the defence that we are bigots or intolerant. You preach all about "tolerance" for everyone, but as soon as you see someone who is against your "views" you become the most intolerant people of them all! I am sorry if I come out has harsh, not my intention, but I do care about these peopl
Temper, temper. Instead of arguing from a position of ignorance, why don't you attend Mass at Xavier one Sunday and see exactly what the parish promotes?
Further, the pastor and the Jesuit order are more cogent than you or I could ever be in addressing the Church's teachings, how Xavier complies with them and still ministers to gay and lesbian Catholics. Further still, Xavier is not operating in a vacuum. Other Catholic parishes minister to gays, as grock 1841 noted.
@poetryandbeyond Ignorance, sorry my friend but you are the one who is ignorant because a lot of things you have said do not go hand in hand with actual Church teaching. Even if I wanted to attend mass at Xavier, I could not as I live in the midwest and I don't plant to visit NYC in a while. And no there is not temper. But I am done with trying to tell you truth, if you still want to keep posting than type away. God bless.
PRacticing sodomy is a sin crying to heaven for revenge by God...it is not a "life style" or to be "celebrated". It is living in the gutter and these offenders need much spiritual and psychological counseling as many are mentally disturbed. Same for the left wing, non-Catholic views of the Jesuit superior.
bkuhar 2 days ago
Shame on you, Cardinal Dolan, for condoning sinful behavior. You are an accessory to their sin by your silence.
harpoontune 2 weeks ago 2
What's all the clapping about, a clear indication that it's all about "us' instead of about the Lord.
purnapoosmom 3 weeks ago
Note the bare-footed lady performing incense choreography at 1:29. Liturgical abuse?
ljcaines 3 weeks ago 2
FUCK THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH and all the pomp and circumstance, enough with the smells and bells!
I left the Roman Catholic Church, there are other REAL Christian Churches that teach true Christianity and real love.
Dolan is the first one who can go fuck himself
NativeNewYorkGuy 6 months ago
@Watching Media...
The most supreme law we must follow is Christ's command to love one another as we love ourselves.
Doesn't the presiding priest at Mass also say during the sign of peace, "Look not on our sins, but on the FAITH of your Church"?
You need to move from rules-based faith to a faith that transforms you and those with whom you interact, my friend.
AmericanPalla 7 months ago
The women priest folks like to claim there were female priests in the early Church. Can you imagine an Eastern Orthodox woman priest? Ditto for the western church tho I have been to "Masses" said by women "priests" and they were really awful. Anyway, I like my priest to face east, and I like my Catholic church altars to be high, not like Julia Child's wooden table sans the roast chicken.
MyBetty111 11 months ago
I like the Velvet Underground--ha ha--cute. Well maybe Xavier isn't that bad after all.
MyBetty111 11 months ago
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poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
@MyBetty111
See, then we do have something in common. The cantor does a killer Nico impersonation.
Have a good rest of the week.
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
@MyBetty111
The Velvet Underground and the Catholic church in the same discussion? Who would have thought it possible? Well, I'd like to throw in my 2 cents. If you like the Velvets, check out a terrific John Cale solo album, Paris 1919. It's melodic and as close as Cale came to a mainstream sound.
RegainedParadise 11 months ago
Sound familiar? Are there altar girls? Are there 101 Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist in secular dress playing priest? Nuns in Apache dresses and feminist long earrings with tamborines (swinging incense bowl too)? Communion in hand? Hand holding, clapping, a football stadium style Kiss of Peace complete with noise and chatter? Yes, my friend, that sounds familiar and that's why I don't attend such Liturgies.
MyBetty111 11 months ago
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poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
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poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
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poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
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@MyBetty111
Altar girls? No. EMs playing priest? No. Tambourines? No. Incense bowls? Just that once. Communion in hand? Yes, not only at Xavier, but at every RC church I've been to in six states, including a cathedral in Nevada. Clapping football stadium style kiss with noise and chatter? No.
But we're having a Tribute to the Velvet Underground fundraiser next month. There's nothing like hearing a church choir sing "White Light, White Heat." Too bad Lou Reed turned us down.
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
Protestant-Catholic Hybrid = Much of the Novus Ordo
Check RealCatholicTV. Read Michael Davies,
The Mass of Pope Paul VI and Pope John;s Council.
Do your homework.
MyBetty111 11 months ago
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That sounds great because feeding the hungry and the homeless is an act of Christian charity. But you can bet on it that I won't stay for your Neo Catholic Mass, especially if that silly pagan goddess of a woman in the Apache dress is swinging an incense bowl. Give me a break. That is pure New Age bunk. Stick to the holy traditions of the ancient Church when it comes to the Liturgy; stop trying to be more modern than MOMA. It is tacky and trendy.
MyBetty111 11 months ago
@MyBetty111
If we stuck to the ancient traditions, we would have female priests and married priests. Xavier doesn't try to be more modern than MoMA. We haven't had a Dada retrospective. That's scheduled for June.
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
The Novus Ordo is the rotting flesh of a Church gone haywire. The last fifty years have been bad ones for the Catholic Church. One has only to view the video and read the comments on this board to see that most people see this Rededication ceremony as pure liturgical abuse. I hope you are happy in your Novus Ordo Protestant Catholic religion.
MyBetty111 11 months ago
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poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
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poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
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poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
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poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
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@MyBetty111
Protestant Catholic religion? Why not Protestant Catholic Muslim Hindu Buddhist Jain religion? Let's throw in the Sikhs for good measure. You've been harping on this video since it went up in June 2010. Can you say O.C.D.?
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go listen to the Benedictine Monks of Santo Domingo de Silos and Marilyn Manson.
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
@MyBetty111 The sign of piece is optional in the OF if I remember correctly. Most of the things you list are actually prohibited in the current rubrics for the OF. The real Modernists have just taken liberty to add and take away whatever they so choose. They are in grave error. The biggest possible problem I see with the OF as it currently is, is that the missal possibly isn't strict enough. This could easily be fixed by a pope.
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
That sounds great because feeding the hungry and the homeless is an act of Christian charity. But you can bet on it that I won't stay for your Neo Catholic Mass, especially if that silly pagan goddess of a woman in the Apache dress is swinging an incense bowl. Give me a break. That is pure New Age bunk. Stick to the holy traditions of the ancient Church when it comes to the Liturgy; stop trying to be more modern than MOMA. It is tacky and trendy.
MyBetty111 11 months ago
@MyBetty111
The Sunday Mass at Xavier is Mass. It starts with the procession of the priest and liturgical ministers. The priest gives the opening blessing and prayer. First reading, second reading, gospel reading. Sermon. Prayers of the faithful. Consecration. Paternoster. Offering of peace. Supplication before the Eucharist. Distribution of the Eucharist. Closing prayer and blessing. That's it in a nutshell. Sound vaguely familiar?
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
Poetry and Beyond has been monitoring this site for well over a year. Doesn't he have anything else to do? Why does he comb comments and feel the need to pick at them like a scavenger bird? Can't he leave well enough alone? Perhaps he should take a day trip to the Zoo, or attend an Orthodox Liturgy...where he will see a truly traditional apostolic service.
MyBetty111 11 months ago
@MyBetty111
I've been a Xavier parishioner for four years, so it makes perfect sense for me to see what people are posting about my parish. I couldn't have chosen a better analogy than scavenger bird. Thank you. Scavenger birds eat dead, rotting flesh, so obviously you don't think very highly of your own comments.
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
@MyBetty111
Not to belabor the point, but I recommend that you come to Xavier and volunteer at the weekly welcome table where we feed an average of 800 meals to the needy or the monthly food pantry or the shelter for homeless men. Or volunteer as a hospitality minister at the Mass for the disabled. Or are all those activities too Novus Ordo for you?
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
Get that pagan looking woman in long lesbian feminist earrings swinging an incense bowl OUT of there!
MyBetty111 11 months ago
Who is that pagan looking woman in long Apache earrtings swinging a "Joan Baez" incense boat? Pretty disgusting. The Catholic Church is in sad shape.
MyBetty111 11 months ago
@MyBetty111
The pagan-looking woman is a nun. Joan Baez never swung an incense bowl, just a guitar. Everybody, sing! "The night they drove old Dixie down." I can't hear you.
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
Will somebody tell me who that pagan looking woman is in long earrings swinging the incense boat? Only a priest should be using incense. And it should NOT be a bowl of incense but an incense boat on a chain. This video is why people don't go to Mass anymore. Liturgical abuses like this have destroyed the American Catholic Church. NO wonder why Catholics are turning to Eastern Orthodoxy.
MyBetty111 11 months ago
This is pure horse crap. Why is that McBeth-style Novus Ordo woman in long earrings swinging an incense bowl? Is she a witch? A non-habit weaing Novus Ordo nun? What is she doing there? Only a priest should be swinging the incense boat. This looks like New Age crap. Shame on this church. It is really a Protestant congregation with Neo Catholic trappings. Sad. Very sad. And the apathetic "anything goes" congregation--they just sit there and accept this crap--is to be pitied.
MyBetty111 11 months ago
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poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
@MyBetty111
You've been posting the exact same comments since last year. Don't you think it's time to move on? What do you do all day? Maybe it's time you looked for a job or volunteered at a hospital. You have way too much free time on your hands.
And by the way, it's Macbeth, not McBeth. Spend some of your free time reading Shakespeare.
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
This is pure Protestant Novus Ordo bunk. Why is there that woman in long earrings waving around a portable incense boat? She looks like a witch out of McBeth! This is really Novus Ordo modernist garbage. The so called altar is just a table. No head coverings on the women and the Cardinal is waving his arms around like an evangelical preacher.
MyBetty111 11 months ago
Dolan is having his problems now with financial irregularities Milwaukee. This just adds fuel to the fire. I'll bet my shoes that he was covering up homosexual priest-pedophiles, and paying off the victims.
This needs to go viral.
234helenrose 11 months ago
I love it when they use the meaningless word 'disenfranchised'. I attended Xavier HS in the 1970's when it's decline began. I was shocked at the amount of homosexual Jesuits that were teaching there at the time. I remember the drill team getting JUG for cutting their hair short at the beginning of their season. My first week my religion teacher wanted a composition on masturbation - what we fantasized about and how often we did it. It was once a very fine institution that has long died.
wavertree558 1 year ago
@wavertree558
I attended Xavier in the 70s. No teacher I had ever assigned such a composition. Religion wasn't taught at Xavier. Theology was. Getting your hair cut short = gay priest? Sorry no. While we're on the subject, I don't believe the drill team got JUG for short haircuts. If anything, students got in trouble if their hair wasn't above their ears. I think you mean "its decline" not "it's decline," which means "it is decline." Xavier HS and Xavier Church are separate entities.
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
@poetryandbeyond I replied to you privately out of respect for those involved. Appreciate the typo corrections though!
wavertree558 11 months ago
@wavertree558
I just read your reply. I admire and commend you on your discretion. You must have attended the school after I did. I was there in the early 70s. We never had religion class. It was called theology. It must have changed after my graduation. Interestingly enough, I had two lay teachers for theology.
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
This is disgusting! I hope Pope Benedict XVI sees this video, and takes action against this parish, and all involved in the sacrileges that are going on there. How can a parish like this even call itself Catholic, or even Christian? Lev. 18:22, Is. 3:9...And how did this Egan even become a cardinal?
LouisvilleTorn8o 1 year ago
@LouisvilleTorn8o
You seem to know Xavier well. Please list, in alphabetical order if you like, the sacrileges that are occurring in the parish. I'm going to take it for granted that you've attended Mass at Xavier or are you just omniscient?
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
@poetryandbeyond No I do not attend Xavier, nor am I omniscient, but letting known unrepentant homosexuals receive the Eucharist is one of the most abominable things I've ever heard of. And this bishop and/or cardinal supports these known homosexuals, who were headed out to celebrate their Gay pride week right after that Mass. This would never ever be tolerated in a parish like the one I attend, which offers both the Ordinary and Extraordinary forms of the Mass.
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
@LouisvilleTorn8o
Define "known unrepentant homosexual." The church proscribes sexual activity outside marriage. It says nothing about orientation. Should unmarried straight couples be denied the Eucharist unless they sign an affidavit swearing they don't engage in premarital sex? By your standard, I would say yes. The gay parishioners who take part in the Gay Pride parade don't shake their groove thing. They evangelize. Xavier is not a "whites only" country club.
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
@poetryandbeyond Known unrepentant homosexual: a person who is known to be a homosexual, and is known to engage in homosexual acts, and who refuses to repent from these acts, even though he/she knows they're gravely sinfull.
And yes, the same rules apply to straight, but unmarried couples who engage in sexual acts.
Both the Bible and the CCC clearly state that both fornication and homosexuality are sins which can lead you to eternal damnation.
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
@Poetryandbeyond You want an alphabetical list of the sacrileges going on at Xavier? You don't even have to attend Xavier to make an accurate list, because they're all in the video.
B: bishop, priest, and cardinal all supporting homosexuals;
H: homosexuals and their supporters receiving the Eucharist;
L: Lesbian "Catholic" group;
liturgical dancers, which have no place at any Mass, OF or EF...
Need I go on?
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
@LouisvilleTorn8o
I disagree. There is no sacrilege on display in the video. The Vatican doesn't proscribe homosexual orientation. Xavier doesn't promote gay activity. It ministers to Catholics who are gay. Until you get a sworn affidavit that a gay person is inactive, the person cannot rightly be denied the Eucharist.
If you were injured and a gay man offered to take you to the hospital, would you say no and tell him to find someone who's straight?
Christ invited everyone to his table.
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
Poetryandbeyond To answer your first question, of course not. And your point would be, what?
To answer your second question, first of all, it's an altar, not a table. Second, in one of the Pauline letters, it is specificly said that if anyone is involved in certain sins, homosexuality included, but claims to be a Christian, not to even eat with them. The word 'eat' is likely referring to the Eucharist.
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
@LouisvilleTorn8o
You didn't address my first point.
Of course not? If God reviles homosexuals, why would you accept help from one?
Don't go literal on me. Jesus didn't have his meals at an altar. The Last Supper was held at a table.
Re: 1 Corinthians. Please translate the original Greek word, as "homosexual" didn't exist till the 19th C. The same list adds the greedy, so Wall Street barons are damned, too. Why doesn't anyone say it?
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
@poetryandbeyond You and your parish are in open disobedience to both God and the Pope. Leviticus 18:22 is clearer than the light of day, yet you fail to address it. Do you openly challenge God's own words?
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
@LouisvilleTorn8o
Nonsense. That pertained to continuance of the tribe. I assume you abstain from pork, shellfish and even rabbit, as that book demands. If you have a boil or a burn, do you run to the priest so he can examine it?
Leviticus is the book of laws. Jesus freed us from the law. Nothing in the gospels deals with homosexuality.
One more thing. I think you and some of the others on this string are way, way, WAY too obsessed with gay people.
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
@poetryandbeyond No, I'm not obsessed with Gay people, but I am obsessed with the fact that there are sacrileges going on at Xavier, and they need to stop. Gay people just happen to be in the middle of it. Just remember what happened to Sodom...
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
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poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
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@LouisvilleTorn8o
Then go stop them. Who's standing in your way? As long as you bring up Sodom, Lot did his daughters no favors by offering them up to be raped, nor did they do him (or themselves) any favors by getting him drunk and taking turns sleeping with him.
According to Ezekial 16:49, the sins of Sodom were pride, gluttony and lavish living. Sounds more like Goldman Sachs and less like Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, doesn't it?
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
@poetryandbeyond Then how about Isaiah 3:9?
And how can you support such a wicked thing as homosexual acts, and nullify the word of God for the sake of supporting those acts, then have the nerve to go up and receive our Lord? I don't see any problem with having friends who are Gay, but the problem comes if you support their sinful acts.
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
@LouisvilleTorn8o
"They proclaim their sin like Sodom" Yeah. and? What's the sin? I don't poll parishioners on how they conduct their lives, so I don't know what they're doing. I concern myself with myself. You don't like it? Tough toenails. If God has an issue with me, it's between God and me. You're not part of the equation. Nor is anyone else on the planet. Got it?
As for your "some of my best friends are gay"-type line, give it a rest.
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
@poetryandbeyond I'm just trying to worn you as a brother, like the Bible says. If you want to persist in supporting evil acts, even after a brother in Christ has warned you, then yes, that's between you and God, but be warned, you may have to answer to God if you persist in supporting these acts. Have a good day.
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
@LouisvilleTorn8o
Just saw this. Wicked is a small coterie of Wall St. types gaming the system to enrich themselves and causing people to lose their homes and jobs. Wicked is a family one medical bill away from bankruptcy because it can't afford insurance. Wicked is poor children going hungry. Life begins at conception. Does it end at birth? Wicked is the Westboro "church" tormenting mourners at funerals with its psychotic antics. Two men in love? Hardly in the same category.
RegainedParadise 11 months ago
@RegainedParadise Two men or two women practicing homosexual acts are equally as wicked as what the WBC do at funerals. In fact, it is one of the worst of abominations in the Bible.
How can you and people like Poetryandbeyond even claim to be Catholics let alone Christians and spew out the garbage that you do?
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
@LouisvilleTorn8o
The same way you can sit in overfed self-satisfaction, glorify yourself as Catholic 2.0 and judge others. How can such a proud and judgmental church diva call himself a Catholic, let alone a Christian?
I just looked up the 10 Commandments. Nowhere does it say "Thou shalt not like 'South Pacific.'"
Sorry, but I have trouble taking you seriously.
RegainedParadise 11 months ago
@RegainedParadise It is not me who makes these judgements, but rather, it is Scripture and the CCC. Any priest or bishop in good standing with Rome would deny any known unrepentant practicing homosexual the Eucharist. The Bible says that homosexual acts are an abomination, and the CCC says that they are a mortal sin.
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
@LouisvilleTorn8o
"Known practicing homosexual." Sounds like the USSR. How does the priest know what anyone, gay or straight, is doing unless he asks?
Just because you read the Bible doesn't mean you're a good Christian or even that you understand it. I read From the Earth to the Moon, but that doesn't make me an astronaut.
When I was a child, missing Mass was a sin, which put it on a par with murder, also a mortal sin. Kind of silly, no?
RegainedParadise 11 months ago
@LouisvilleTorn8o
I'm not done. In December, gays and lesbians from Xavier spent an evening wrapping Christmas gifts for disadvantaged children. You're right. That's wicked. We should have burned those gifts so the kids didn't get gay cooties. One Sunday, gays from Xavier volunteered at the welcome table to serve food to the needy. You're right. That's wicked. A couple of homeless men started singing show tunes after they ate.
Give my regards to Fred Phelps.
RegainedParadise 11 months ago
@RegainedParadise Roma locuta est, causa finita est.
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
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RegainedParadise 11 months ago
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@LouisvilleTorn8o
Yes, it always sounds more imperious and intimidating in Latin. Let me add one. ECASA ter die sumendus. That means aspirin three times a day.
Last I heard, there's no Latin in the Bible (the Vulgate doesn't count), just Hebrew and Greek
RegainedParadise 11 months ago
@LouisvilleTorn8o
Actually, let me help. I guess the weekly welcome table, monthly food pantry, the shelter for homeless men and the Mass for the disabled are all disgraceful and damn it, we must put a stop to them. No real Catholic would dare have anything to do with the unfortunate, helpless and despised. We Catholics are the original Tea Party. It's about me, me, me, me, me, me. Are you listening??? IT'S ABOUT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
poetryandbeyond 11 months ago
After researching this, I think the pope is rather against the homosexual acts of priests that have damaged the church in the view of most people. The church to me is a sanctuary to anyone needing shelter and help. The world and people's perception is constantly changing with the times. Our moralities need to change and adapt accordingly. I love that my church is progressive and welcoming to anyone needing spiritual counsel and love.
sfxavier 1 year ago
@sfxavier Your parish is in great need of an FSSP take-over. They would sure straighten things out.
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
I was an alter boy at SFX in the late 60's. To this day, outside of St Patricks Cathedral, Sf Francis Xavier church still is the most beautiful church I have ever had the pleasure to attend. I am pleased beyond words to see my church look so great and to see it packed with parishoners. On the topic of homosexuality, the current vatican stance is quite clearly against homosexual acts. To see SFX welcome gays and lesbians is confusing. Is SFX operating against the vatican's edict?
sfxavier 1 year ago
This is the problem we have with many of our self-styled "religious" people like "WatchingMedia1". They are all caught up in the institutional "rules" and "laws" of the church and forget all about the more important things that Christ taught us: Love, mercy, brotherhood, compassion, understanding, and ofcourse, NOT THROWING STONES AT OTHERS.
warrenpaine 1 year ago
Cardinal Egan is truly a Church bureaucrat. No wonder he was hated by even the holy people of the Archdiocese of New York.
yahooveritas 1 year ago
Bless you, Fr. Constantino. =)
ominoreg 1 year ago 2
Choirs and musicians have traditionally been in the rear of the church, not alongside the sacred altar. The latter = liturgical innovation after Vatican II. Why is this so hard to understand?
MyBetty111 1 year ago
@MyBetty111
As I said before, I have been to Mass at Roman Catholic churches in at least six states, including two cathedrals. The singers and musicians have all been up front and to the side. Maybe the fact there was no place for them in the back of the church had something to do with it. Be that as it may, the location of the choir didn't disrupt what was transpiring on the altar,
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
This is sad, and a promotion of sacrilege of the body of our Lord in the Eucharist. How can they tell themselves it's okay to do such things and then still go up to receive communion. Next thing you know there's going to be a Catholic pro-abortion committee in our parishes. Please pray for these people.
stevestone88 1 year ago
If you want to be called "CATHOLIC", you must live up to the "CATECHISM of the Catholic Church, Second Edition".
The Catholic Church is not a salad bar, and you can not pick and choose what you want to believe.
Go to the USCCB web site, and check out #2357, #2120, and #1868.
My previous post is accurate and stands - per documentation.
Personal opinions are a dime a dozen and mean nothing.
Documentation counts.
WatchingMedia1 1 year ago 10
@WatchingMedia1
I just logged onto the USCCB website. There is a big banner across the top that reads "How is the Catholic Church combating sexual abuse?" There's a valid reason it's there. That's not a personal opinion. There's documentation.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@poetryandbeyond
If you click on the banner, you will find that it has to do with "protecting children". Headlines or book titles is not documentation.
That has to do with the sinful abuse cases that took place over many years, and those priests are dead or in jail where they belong.
Please do not confuse the two separate MORTAL sins of abuse, and homosexual acts.
The "CCC, 2nd Ed" is the Church's teaching on Faith and Morals that Catholics are REQUIRED to adhere to.
WatchingMedia1 1 year ago 2
The "CATECHISM of the Catholic Church, Second Edition" is very clear that under no circumstances can homosexual acts be approved. #2357
Anyone participating in or supporting homosexual actions are in a state of mortal sin, and can not receive Holy Communion without committing sacrilege. #2120 and #1868
WatchingMedia1 1 year ago 11
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poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@poetryandbeyond
You are absolutely correct. NO ONE may receive Holy Communion in a state of Mortal sin.
If so, they would be commiting Sacrilege.
Sexual acts are reserved for married persons only - defined as between one man and one woman.
It would be best if you read the CCC and then discussed it with your Bishop.
Xavior has not preached from the pulput that homosexual acts are sinful, and told all parishoners to read the CCC., nor do they have a link to the CCC on their web site.
WatchingMedia1 1 year ago 2
@WatchingMedia1
I have to commend your consistency.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@WatchingMedia1 if there born gay but dont have sex acts i guess its ok too accept them its if they act on there compulsions thats a sin same as a hetrosexual preist if he dont have sex with a woman hes not sinning. but being gay shouldnt be promoted or overly advertized but only god is the judge god bless
roquespear 1 year ago
5:29 catholic lesbian group, what's going on that goes against catholic teaching
777gameplayer 1 year ago 3
@777gameplayer
To reiterate what I posted several weeks ago, Xavier is not a country club that prizes exclusion. We worship a loving, welcoming God, not a God who is vain, selfish, angry, vindictive and cruel. The former is the Father that Jesus espoused, not a celestial Idi Amin.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
Poetry and Beyond, you are funny but deluded. Read Michael Davies, Malachi Martin. There is a massive return to tradition happening all over the world.
MyBetty111 1 year ago
@MyBetty111
Deluded? Moi? Au contraire. You speak of the Latin rite, but the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s permitted the use of the vernacular. As I mentioned earlier, I've been to Mass in at least six states. Every Mass was in English, and every priest faced the congregation. The placement of the choir seems more an issue of feng shui than religiosity.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
If you believe the Mass is a meal, you are NOT Catholic. Join the Methodist Church.
MyBetty111 1 year ago
@MyBetty111
I won't even dignify your nonsensical post with the reply I was planning.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
The first churches were also in caves, does this mean Catholics should build caves instead of churches. Your logic is twisted. The Mass is a sacrifice, it symbolizes Calvary, it is NOT a casual meal. People who believe it is a meal do not believe in the Real Presence. Read Malachi Martin.
MyBetty111 1 year ago
@MyBetty111
Where in any of my postings so far do I say Mass is a meal? What are you reading?
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@MyBetty111
If a priest says a Mass in a person's home, is it not a legitimate Mass? Apparently not, based on what you wrote.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
What is the Pope going to do? INsist that the choir be moved to the rear of the church where it has always been (traditionally) for centuries? The trendy idea of putting musicians and the choir alongside the altar and the priest is a NEW thing, and it clutters the altar are3a, and makes stars out of the choir and the musicians. The Mass is not an MTV show. Choirs belong in the rear of the church.
MyBetty111 1 year ago
@MyBetty111
You can't be serious. Do you honestly think he just showed up that day and said "Tell me where to go"? The arrangements were made long in advance of the Mass day. And I guaranatee you the Pope's representatives knew every detail of that event down to the placement of the candles.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
Vatican II did not call for the destruction of Catholic church interiros. Read Michael Rose's book, Ugly as Sin, on post-Vatican II architecture. Yes, your church has kept the high altar--good for your church, but other churches have not. Julia Child's table is too pedestrian anyway. The Mass is not a meal, it is a sacrifice!
MyBetty111 1 year ago
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poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
Protestant-style liturgy: A plain table rather than a high altar; too many lay ministers standing around the altar in secular clothing; women/liturgical dancers swinging incense bowls; handshaking mayhem at the Kiss of Peace; no incense; tacky Newchurch hymns in place of traditional chant; communion in the hand; altar girls. The list is endless. Thank God for the Traditional Latin Mass and the Eastern Catholic Church, where there are no trendy innovations.
MyBetty111 1 year ago
@MyBetty111
Sorry, but plain tables facing the congregation are not endemic to Xavier. They are in other RC churches. As a matter of fact, if you watch the daily Mass on EWTN, you will see a plain table facing the communicants. By the way, Xavier does have a high altar. The lay Eucharistic ministers compensate for a dwindling population of priests. It is permitted. What "tacky newchurch (not a word - i think you meant new church) hymn" did you hear in the clip?
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@MyBetty111 The Ordinary Form AKA the Novus Ordo is not the problem. It's people like the people who are having this "Mass" that are the real problem. The return of the TLM to this parish would definitely straighten things out, but the TLM isn't the only valid and licit form of the Mass. There are plenty of reverent OF Masses, like the ones on EWTN for example.
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
Obviously when the Pope came to Saint Patrick's he could not insist that the cathedral move the choir to the rear of the church. He had to play the "game" as it was presented to him. US bishops have taken extraordinary liberties in the Liturgy, the design of churches, altar girls and so forth. (The Pope forbade altar girls but the US bishops disobeyed him). The list is endless. Lay women carrying around bowls of incense is not Catholic--it is Newchurch Novus Ordo, a liturgical abuse.
MyBetty111 1 year ago
@MyBetty111
"He had to play the 'game."" You can't possibly be serious.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
The choir according to the traditional Catholic liturgy should be in the rear of the church, not the front.
MyBetty111 1 year ago
@MyBetty111
Traditional liturgy also prescribed a Latin Mass. Have you ever heard of the Second Vatican Council?
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
Dancing liturgical women with portable incense boats? Awful!
MyBetty111 1 year ago
Novus Ordo Newchurch with a Protestant style liturgy. Why is it that parishes that opt to be openly friendly to gays and lesbians always have an awful, Protestant style liturgy? Eucharistic ministers should NOT wear secular clothing when they distribute Communion. This looks like a really predictable Novus Ordo parish. Awful.
MyBetty111 1 year ago
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poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
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@MyBetty111
As a Xavier parishioner, I can't tell you how ridiculous you sound. Protestant-style? How so? I attend Mass there every Sunday. I also have attended Mass in NJ, Nevada, Louisiana and Vermont, as well as Xavier, and all the churches, Xavier included, have the same Mass. By the way, the singers at the churches in NJ, Nevada and Vermont stand at the front. When Pope Benedict said Mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral in NY, the choir was up front. Is he not Catholic enough for you?
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@MyBetty111
On what basis do you make such a sweeping statement? How is Xavier's liturgy Protestant? You write with such certainty, you must have attended services at Xavier and are basing your assessment on first-hand observation. Please enlighten us all with the results of your in-depth research.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@MyBetty111 It could be that your area doesn't offer any reverent OF Masses, which would be a shame. At the parish I attend, the choir is in the back, and musical settings of the Mass like Missa De Angelis, and the Rossini Propers, are still used even at our 11 o'clock OF. It's really sad if you've never attended a reverent OF. When attending the EF, you should attend one said by a priest in good standing with Rome.
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
Typical Novus Ordo mess. Liturgical dancing style women with swirling incense boats. An altar table, no high altar. Potato sack Novus Ordo vestments. An emphasis on social justice rather than personal salvation. I bet the Mass is very Protestant looking. Thank God people are returning to tradition. The choir also belongs in the REAR of the church.
MyBetty111 1 year ago
@MyBetty111
If we were to return to tradition as far back as tradition goes, we'd have married priests. They married in the early church.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
PS - When Christ was 12 and taught the Scriptures in the Temple, He proclaimed that "today in your hearing the Scripture is fulfilled." He was telling them that the Messiah they had long awaited had come and it was He. They could not accept the grace that was given to them and so did not accept the Truth. He was not a Jewish heresy, he was the Jewish fulfillment. Contrast that to Simeon, who recognized Him at once. Think about which side you are on. .
1600ny 1 year ago
@1600ny
Webster definition of "essence": a basic underlying or constituting entity. Definition of "essential": having or realizing in itself the essence of its kind.
In other words, one essential truth: Christ is Lord. Unless you accept that, you are not a Christian, and all the other truths are hardly essential.
He proclaimed Himself the Messiah and freed His followers from the law. That most certainly was heretical behavior at the time.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
"The Catholic Church professes one essential truth: Christ is Lord." Wrong again, poet. The Catholic Church professes all of Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magesterium to be essential Truths. It's time for you to start your own religion. Leave us Catholics and our sacred Churches out of it.
1600ny 1 year ago
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1600ny 1 year ago
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1600ny 1 year ago
"In other words, unless one meets your criteria to be a Christian, one must be driven away." No, poetry. You've got it wrong. Unless one believes in what the Catholic Church professes to be true, he/she is not a Catholic. Simple as that. Common sense. I disagree with the core beliefs of Judaism, for example - hence, it would never occur to me to identify myself as Jewish. I wouldn't try to distort/subvert another's faith by putting myself and my own ideas at the center of the universe.
1600ny 1 year ago
@1600ny
"I disagree with the core beliefs of Judaism." The entire Old Testament, which generally provides the first of three readings at the Mass, is Judaic scripture. Christ thought of himself and practiced as a Jew who challenged established authority. Christianity essentially began as a Jewish heresy. The term Christian first appears in Acts, which takes place well after Christ's earthly tenure. But you knew all that.
The Catholic Church professes one essential truth: Christ is Lord.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
"Put all the good works in the world against one Holy Mass; they will be as a grain of sand beside a mountain." - St. John, Vianney, The Cure of Ars.
Do you see the enormity of desecrating the Mass?
1600ny 1 year ago
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poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
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poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
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poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
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poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
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poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
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@1600ny
In other words, unless one meets your criteria to be a Christian, one must be driven away.
I'm more than happy to talk about the enormity of desecrating the Mass, provided you reference Cardinal Law and the Boston diocese.
Incidentally, I can quote Edgar Allan Poe, but that doesn't make me an American lit scholar.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
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poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
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poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
Poet/Matt/host: Re your gay lifestyle I'll tell you something your Pastor will not. God loves you. God created you. God created your intellect. He created your body. You are better than that (the sinful lifestyle). Don't sell yourself short! Do some research about why the CC requires all people outside of a valid marriage to be chaste. Reform your life, go to confession to a faithful priest, and receive Communion worthily. You'll have a clear heart and conscience. Then praise Jesus!
1600ny 1 year ago
@1600ny
Whatever you mean by it, you are assuming we're all engaged in a gay lifestyle. Is that not a little presumptuous? I welcome the presence of the disabled at Xavier. I am not disabled.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
(Fatima Prayer) The Pardon Prayer: My God, I believe, I adore, I trust and I love Thee! I ask pardon for those who do not believe, do not adore, do not trust, and do not love Thee.
Jesus I trust in You
Truism1000 1 year ago
Straight up, what exactly do you believe as a supposed member of the Catholic Church? I'm guessing more than one sacrament doesn't work for you.
Truism1000 1 year ago
As for you, perhaps you were never taught the truth. You may have been the student of a twisted take on the Church. You may be a pawn in someone else's agenda. Have you ever considered going to another church or becoming an atheist, to satisfy your craving to reign supreme? You have no right to hijack my Church. If you have come to rob me I will stand up and defend my Church.
Truism1000 1 year ago
@Truism1000
To reiterate my response to another poster below, locate the passages in the gospels where Christ talks of homosexuality. He doesn't. What he does inveigh against are the proud and the self-righteous.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@poetryandbeyond There are many things Christ talked about and did, but not everything can be part of Scripture or it woul be never ending. This is where we rely on Tradition handed down from the Apostles and the Church fathers.
catholicarchangel 1 year ago
You miss the point, poetryandbeyond. Either that or you purposely choose not to stick to the topic. By your logic, if Hitler fed the poor, the Holocaust doesn't matter. If a well-known mafia chief buys ice cream for kids, his murders don't matter. The point is that active gay agenda is not unnoticed or discounted because you hand out bread to the poor. You can do that in a secular setting with no intention of honoring God. At least then, some honesty might enter in.
Truism1000 1 year ago
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poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@Truism1000
Hitler didn't feed the poor, so the analogy is not only shallow, but idiotic. My point is that Xavier, a Roman Catholic parish, is living Christ's teachings, which do not deny mercy and love to those who crave it. Xavier does not promote an active gay agenda, whatever that's supposed to mean. What it does promote is a welcoming forum for worship to those who otherwise - apparently, by the likes of you - would be marginalized. Christ sat at dinner with the marginalized.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
Why would anyone think this parish is in defiance of Catholic teachings? This parish embraces Catholic teaching by extending a welcome to those people who would not be welcomed elsewhere. Compare this parish to your own, do you feed people who need it? Do you provide a homeless shelter? Do you welcome those on the edge of society? If they were doing something wrong it would not be broadcast on video and for everyone to see. You have ears but do not hear to the gospel.
catholichost 1 year ago
Cheers to St. Francis Xavier! The church looks magnificent! Can't wait to go there and worship! God is good!
Lenny10455 1 year ago
Mattdeos: It is YOU who have brought your bedrooms to US by holding parades where many participants galavant in little more than underwear and simulate gay relations - for all the world to see. The Gay Pride Paraders are the most unashamedly, hyper-sexual, in-your-face group known to man. Are you proud of that? You don't think that offends God? It is heinous that a Catholic parish would participate in such human degradation.
1600ny 1 year ago
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poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@1600ny
And what is your stand on degradations like poverty, hunger, homelessness, torture and war? I don't think Christ looked too kindly on them. Xavier takes great strides through its shelter, welcome table and food pantry to clothe, feed and offer comfort to people who are desperately poor, ill and distraught. What is your personal contribution to that struggle?
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
catholichost: Just like catholicarchangel, I too turned my back on Church teachings for many years. Once I embraced and obeyed the Truth of the Church, my life became ordered again (i.e., God first). People like archangel want to help, not hurt you. Why don't you at least attempt to live an authentic Catholic life and then see how you feel? No need to be angry and attack. BTW, it's an act of mercy to correct a sinner.
1600ny 1 year ago
P.S. Let's remember that the CC is CLEAR on the teachings of homosexuality. Chaste gays are not in sin. Those in an active gay lifestyle are in mortal sin and are forbidden to receive Communion. THAT is what we MUST believe if we are to identify ourselves as Catholic. And no-a "liberal" pastor or bishop cannot change that truth. Fr Costantino might "see the rainbow", Dolan might give a thumbs-up - but all that means is they are in grave error, not that they can change Jesus' teachings.
1600ny 1 year ago
@1600ny
I defy you to show where in the four gospels Jesus makes any mention at all of homosexuality. He doesn't.
The true hypocrites are those who stand proudly and belligerently decide who is deserving of God's love while draping themselves in a cloak of self-righteousness that they themselves made.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
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@poetryandbeyond "The true hypocrites are those who stand proudly and belligerently decide who is deserving of God's love while draping themselves in a cloak of self-righteousness
that they themselves made."
And that is EXACTLY what these Gay "Catholics" are doing.
Egan and the others involved are enabling these people to dance with the Devil, but still drink of the cup of the Lord...
LouisvilleTorn8o 1 year ago
C/host: Let me say that I agree with the sentiments of truism, et al. They are not in defiance of the hierarchy; it is indeed you are in defiance of the teachings of Catholicism, the Pope and God's Commandments. I would like to ask you an honest question as a person who believes that those born gay are as much God's children and loved by Him as anyone. Why do you insist on subverting the teachings of the C.C.? Why not either live a chaste life or join a rel. that supports active homosexuality?
1600ny 1 year ago
@1600ny Because people like him (her) are too prideful to put themselves aside and follow God's will. Before my return to the Faith one thing I loved was being with many women, I could care less about them, but God humbled me and showed me my err. I didn't come into the Church promoting a "players" life-style, but I changed my ways.
catholicarchangel 1 year ago
@catholicarchangel
The one who loudly proclaims that God has humbled him is hardly a humble man.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@poetryandbeyond I never claimed to be a humble person, but at that moment when God showed me my err I was humbled through His grace to be able to see my wrong doing. I would rather proclaim that the Lord has givin me the gift of humilty rather than proclaiming that God accepts my sinful lifestyle.
catholicarchangel 1 year ago
@catholicarchangel
If you feel humbled by grace and are willing to bear witness to your own wrongdoing, then I commend you. What I do not commend is someone who takes it upon himself or herself to decide who is worthy of being a follower of Christ. That is between the individual and Christ, no one else.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@poetryandbeyond Actually you are wrong, if someone feels that the Catholic Church is not the right way to God then so be it, thats their choice and I would not force them to be in the Church. But when you enter into the Faith that has been around 2000 years, and you take it uppon yourself to choose what teachings you want to follow and not only that but promote a sinful life and call for a change that would be heresy, well then my friend thats where you and like-minded people are wrong
catholicarchangel 1 year ago
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poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@catholicarchangel
The Church of St. Francis Xavier is right for me, not to mention many others. That's why I'm a parishioner. It is not up for discussion, neither with you nor anyone else. To reiterate what I wrote in an earlier posting, we worship a welcoming, loving God, not a snarling bully throwing a perpetual temper tantrum.
Before you house yourself in your imagined cocoon of celestial light, I suggest you curtail your search for sin in others. Act like the Christian you claim to be.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@poetryandbeyond If you want to continue being a pick and choose catholic than so be it, but don't get mad when the Vatican finally comes down on this Church. I will continue to live my life (through God's grace) as the Church wants me to, with the laws and teachings of Jesus Christ. May God bless and hopefully one day you will see the truth of God and not your truth.
catholicarchangel 1 year ago
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poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@catholicarchangel
The Vatican has far greater things to concern itself with than the benign desire of gays and lesbians to worship. I refer you to the front page of today's edition of The New York Times, specifically to a lengthy article about the Church hierarchy's failure to investigate and stop the abuse of children by priests. Those clerics and their superiors are the ones who've acted contrary to Christ's ministry and - to borrow the words of another poster - desecrated the Mass.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@poetryandbeyond The New York Times! really? That's one of the worst media outlets when it comes to the Catholic Churches, twice already it's been busted with putting out false news about the Church. You still don't get it do you? You think that I am against gays comming into the Church and worshipping and living the Gospel according to the REAL teachings of the Catholic Church? It's not that at all! I am against gays, liberals, conservatice, or anyone who comes into the Church and
catholicarchangel 1 year ago
@catholicarchangel
I'd like you to cite the two instances where the NY Times was "busted" for publishing false reports about the Church. If you don't like the NY Times, I suggest you try any number of media outlets that have carried similar news. Pretending it never happened doesn't mean it never happened.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@poetryandbeyond expecting the Church to change her 2000 year old teachings according to their sinful lifestyles. This my freind is what I and true Catholics are against! GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. Quit using the defence that we are bigots or intolerant. You preach all about "tolerance" for everyone, but as soon as you see someone who is against your "views" you become the most intolerant people of them all! I am sorry if I come out has harsh, not my intention, but I do care about these peopl
catholicarchangel 1 year ago
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poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
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poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@catholicarchangel
Temper, temper. Instead of arguing from a position of ignorance, why don't you attend Mass at Xavier one Sunday and see exactly what the parish promotes?
Further, the pastor and the Jesuit order are more cogent than you or I could ever be in addressing the Church's teachings, how Xavier complies with them and still ministers to gay and lesbian Catholics. Further still, Xavier is not operating in a vacuum. Other Catholic parishes minister to gays, as grock 1841 noted.
poetryandbeyond 1 year ago
@poetryandbeyond Ignorance, sorry my friend but you are the one who is ignorant because a lot of things you have said do not go hand in hand with actual Church teaching. Even if I wanted to attend mass at Xavier, I could not as I live in the midwest and I don't plant to visit NYC in a while. And no there is not temper. But I am done with trying to tell you truth, if you still want to keep posting than type away. God bless.
catholicarchangel 1 year ago