Sen. Hagel (R-NE) Lines Up with Obama, Against Cheney

[XMADDMARSX]

you make the belly bigger with the beer

[Richardgwm]

Somebody is going to have to apologize to Rush for this.

[tigerakabj]

1. He won't b/c he isn't an elected official anymore.

2. Hagel already called Rush out, telling him, "if you've got all the answers, run then."

If and when Sec. of Defense retires, either Hagel or Wesley Clark should be nominated. Hagel talks too much sense to be part of the GOP right now. Just ask Powell (being run out of the party by King Rush).

[JBeatty17]

I'd vote for him over any Democrat who voted against moving the prisoners out of Guantanamo into U.S. supermax prisons.

[ehkinoh]

But a terrorist in a supermax prison is practically in our back yards!!!

.... ahhhhhh run away!!!!

[DoctorDoubleX]

lol why the hell do we fear people who have crappy educations and hide out in caves??

THIS IS AMERICA .. FUCK YEAH!!

[SkyDaddy7]

Is it not funny how tough these right wingers talk but then act like huge pussies when it comes to adding 250 or so terrorist to the 1000 we already have in our Super Max Prison systems?

I guess the cover is off their tough talk as they would rather torture and hold people in off shore prisons out of fear!! Makes sense as that is all they know is fear and hate.

[tigerakabj]

You noctice they don't have an answer when somebody brings up the incarceration of Tim McVeigh and Charles Manson.

Look at Hannity....freakin' douche talked that loud game about being paid $1000 to be waterboarded, and he has yet to back it up.

[SkyDaddy7]

Right...All the GOP is right now is HOT AIR! They talk a big talk but are not about to walk that walk. They use religion, hate and fear mixed with a cocktail of lies...The sad part is this has worked for decades. The good part is it appears America is now entering a post Christian era which leaves the GOP with nothing to offer America. As if they had anything to offer b4. No nation can advance on a platform based on nothing but crap.

[lukismaximus]

that pretty much is us, except for the caves.

[mccainisthrough]

Hagel is tough but fair, not an extremist like the rest of the gop, which is disappearing faster than a Dixie Cup of Oxycontin at limbaugh's pig pen. In 10 years the gop will be a shadow of a bad memory, and Senators like Hagel will join with the Democrats. Now it's time to try and prosecute bush and cheney for their War Crimes and restore America's integrity and credibility with the World.

[mexcurmudgeon]

O'bomber is no different from Cheney except he's a little more well-spoken. He was saying we can use indefinite detention (without charges) and "enhanced interrogation" (torture) against anyone from anywhere for any duration, and never allow them a fair trial. But he wants to do this within the "rule of law", despite the fact that it's illegal by US law to detain and torture people indefinitely without charging them!

Saying that Cheney and O'Bomber were opposing is highly misleading!

[SkyDaddy7]

I think you need to review the FACTS and stop with the simple minded idea that the two ideas are the same.

Obama wants to set up a system with congressional oversight not sole power within the Executive like Cheney set up...That is a huge difference. Yes, in a time of war it is legal under the constitution and International law to hold people until conflict ends.

The fact is Obama is yeilding power to congress in order to set up a system in which our values are upheld. READ & THINK!

[BMovieWackiness]

Not to denigrate your other points, but we never declared war. This isn't a "war" we're fighting as far as the Constitution is concerned.

[SkyDaddy7]

I totally agree! We are in unprecedented times! Like Obama said there are those on the left who think we should let people like KSM go because Bush/Cheney tortured the shit out him and can't be brought into the federal court system. And there are many other cases that are very complex. Now, unlike Bush, Obama is setting up a system with congressional oversight and other C&B and actually giving up the executive power that Bush used to hold people. We can't put National Security aside.

[DoctorMeh]

Yeah, and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon.

[VonSchnutze]

Nebraska puts out some of the better republicans.

[fixergood]

LOL Awesome Chuck. Finally somebody who isn't AFRAID to tell the truth about these chickenturds and their fearmongering so they can do anything they want. Boy the traitors aint gonna have nice things to say about you dude.

[insylogo]

Countdown until he is symbolically removed from the republican party by Limbaugh/Steele starts now...

[milkgodnl]

Under this circumstance my dormmates and I would have bought squares .. hummm .. I give Hagel between one and three months .. tops .. 12 squares please!

[hajqbvii]

I always wanted Hagel to be vice president and not Biden.....oh well....

[dimmutaker]

I said the same thing from the moment i did my research on him almost 2 years ago. I dont like all his views and all, but the man is a smart guy and knows a LOT about foreign policies and domestics too. To bad Obama didnt put him as secretary of state or something similar.

[scipio2009]

The political math doesn't add up to an Obama win, with Hagel as VP.

Drop Biden off the ticket, and immediately PA, MI,FL, and chunks of the Northeast or in play for the general. No offense, but you have to look at the politics first.

When Secretary Gates steps aside, Hagel or General Wesley Clark could be good fits at DoD.

[k166a]

Respect points to Hagel!

[sugarpuddin88]

Preventative Indefinite Detention

Right after condemning Bush operating outside the law, Obama announced today that he will: Develop a legal strategy outside US Law & Military Law to indefinitely detain people who MIGHT commit a crime! What he calls preventive indefinite detention, (just like in the Tom Cruise Movie, Minority Report)!

So you can be locked up for 10 or more years without any trial, indictment, or hearing because of what someone thinks you MIGHT do sometime in the future!

[milkgodnl]

sugarpuddin,

.. stop spreading that tired old rumor .. it was fresh and even plausible back in '86 with the passage of the Uniform Crime Bill, but .. just .... stop.

[SkyDaddy7]

Obama is setting up a legal system WITHIN US & International law...If Obama just let those guys go like some on the left want they would blame him when they came back to attack us...Some people simply like to bitch!

[sugarpuddin88]

milkgodnl

If you need the link to the news story drop me a line

But we both know your real problem: You are too weak-minded to take your head out of the sand

[milkgodnl]

Sugarpuddin,

Please grace us with a link or just upload the video yourself of Obama announcing :

".. that (in your words) he will: Develop a legal strategy outside US Law & Military Law to indefinitely detain people who MIGHT commit a crime!"

I am sure all patriotic Americans would want to see that video .. Until then I put your post in the same category as the birth certificate controversy.

[sugarpuddin88]

Milk

I would be delighted too:

watch?v=1uuWVHT1WUY

[roaches146]

wait... are you STILL hung up on the birth certificate shit? i don't think he would be president right now if it was a big deal... am i right?

[scipio2009]

lol

So you say we just release them back to where they came from?

That kind of thinking is why people make fun of people like you!

Klalid Sheik Muhammed should be released! The only information we ever got from the guy was solicited through forced confessions, and that is often not permissable in courts! No evidence, then no case! Let him go! If he comes back and kills more people on the frontlines, oh well; he has that right!

lol. Be real

[sugarpuddin88]

Preventative Indefinite Detention

Right after condemning Bush operating outside the law, Obama announced today that he will: Develop a legal strategy outside US Law & Military Law to indefinitely detain people who MIGHT commit a crime! What he calls preventive indefinite detention, (just like in the Tom Cruise Movie, Minority Report)!

So you can be locked up for 10 or more years without any trial, indictment, or hearing because of what someone thinks you MIGHT do sometime in the future!

[scipio2009]

And the second that the people, who you are clamoring to see released, actually go back and contribute to the crumble of Afghanistan, we'll see you up, on the same soapbox, crying about how the U.S. has destroyed the world on its own.

Don't make me laugh

[sugarpuddin88]

America's most decorated soldiers says it best: General S Butler

In, War Is a Racket, Butler presented an exposé and trenchant condemnation of the profit motive behind warfare

I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for Amer oil interests in 1914

[sugarpuddin88]

I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903.

[sugarpuddin88]

In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

[scipio2009]

Yet, you still give no answer to the serious and, based on your beliefs, likely consequence of what we would do, with an individual like Khalid Sheik Muhhamad!

You can throw out all the hyperbole that you want, but the fact still stands that we have no case against KSM, the "Squealer" of Al Quaeda.

The "confession" that we got from the man was taken under durress, and wouldn't hold up in any court!

He walks free, and then what happens.

Try answering a question, instead of just redirecting it

[sugarpuddin88]

Scipio

Pick something to debate me with if you have the guts

I can't even tell what exactly you disagree with me over... You are hiding behind your monitor

[scipio2009]

I just gave you the same topic that you continue to duck:

What does the Constitution say we do with Khalid Sheik Muhammad?

It's a simple question, and you keep ducking it!

And the fact is, you keep ducking that question because following like you would preach would lead to a top 5 Al Quaeda member being released back into the fight!

Who's hiding!

[sugarpuddin88]

Indict & prosecute according to the law

[scipio2009]

And since the case against KSM is based on information, found after placing the man under durress, the case cannot hold up in any civilian court!

You, my friend, just released Al Quaeda's top propaganda back into the fight.

Have fun living with that

[sugarpuddin88]

911 was a public snuff film used to shock the public and enact the end of the Bill of Rights & invasion of oil bearing countries, & make money for private companies like Halliburton, (stock from 10 to 50 a share)!

By destroying the WTC, they were able to cover up theft of gold bullion & destroy illegal financial transaction records performed just prior to the attacks

Silverstein spends 140 million to make 7 billion almost over night; Silverstein said it was demolished by explosives, (pull it)

[sugarpuddin88]

It reminds me of CIA man Byrd, the owner of TX School Book Depository, who turned a 2.5 million insider purchase into 26 million dollars thanks to JFK assassination!

Supposedly due to a few small fires, WTC7 came down at free fall speed into its own foot print; wasnt hit by a plane; it was the furthest away from the Twin Towers, (the other smaller WTC bldgs were impacted by debris); it was reported by the BBC 20 minutes before it even happened

[scipio2009]

And again, after being faced with an absolutely clear example of the stupidity of your claims, you try and redirect the subject to a copy/paste blurb that you probably picked up from some dork's blog post.

It's honestly sad.

If you actually came forward with a point, and were willing to defend it, you might deserve a shred of credibility.

But, you don't!

[scipio2009]

Since it seems like you don't even understand how to debate a point, I'll give you an example: Fmr. Congressman Joe Scarborough (FL).

The host of Morning Joe, on MSNBC, has often voiced a position on detainee policy, that I staunchly disagree with, but I can respect his opinion, because he backs his position with valid information.

His opinion is that the CIA, in the quest to obtain information neccessary to defend the country, should have access to all tools possible, and do so by any means.

[scipio2009]

That's his opinion. He defends his opinion, no matter what questions people bring, and he does so with information.

I disagree with Scarborough; there is only so far that I believe the CIA must be allowed to go to gain information.

Still, the fact the debate is civil and is backed by actionable information makes it a rational disagreement.

Why don't you try and think stuff out before you just regurgitate what you read from the "anti-war bloggers"

lol

[sugarpuddin88]

Fact: History & Science prove legitimate information does not come from torture; In fact, an al Qaeda member confessed to al-Qaeda's Deputy Operations Chief Ayman al-Zawahiris location specifically because his captors were decent & fair

Moreover, heads of the DOD demonstrated that people joined against America as a direct result of Americas horrific atrocities at Gitmo; & that just as many Americans have died as a direct result of those atrocities at Gitmo as have died in the WTC towers!

[scipio2009]

No one is saying that torture was effective in attaining information! I'm not saying that torture was effective, or has ever been effective, in attaining information! And the fact that you are still trying to push that talking point is beyond ignorant.

The matter at hand is that currently, at Gitmo, we have 250 people held there, many of whom have been deemed to be dangerous, but we lack the evidence to prove a case against any of them in the court of law!

Bluster all you want!

[scipio2009]

So, the question becomes "what do we do with these 250 prisoners at Gitmo?"

Until you understand that THAT is the key question that needs to be answered, you'll continue to sound like an idiot.

[scipio2009]

FACT: Torture is illegal; our interrogators should never torture.

FACT: Under the Geneva Conventions, waterboarding is torture

FACT: 250 prisoners are held at Gitmo

FACT: The current case against KSM is based on information discovered under durress, and is not admissable in any court.

FACT: KSM is the top propganda man for Al Quaeda.

FACT: We have no case against KSM.

Until you can bring an idea to square away even that ONE example, your opinion is worthless on the matter.

Goodday

[ver506]

Tell 'em, sen. Hagel!!!

I think Chuck Hagel will be getting a job in the pentagon under Obama in the future...i have a sneaking suspicion!

[DaPharaoh06]

*applause* Thank you, Sen. Hagel... Too bad he's not still in the U.S. Senate. The GOP could use more principled men like him!

[TWDtv]

Thank you for putting this video up TPM. Hagel whipped ass here. Andrea Mitchell was silenced.

[smathis98]

One of the few remaining Republicans who makes any sense at all. So he's toast in the primaries.

[ERAUPRCWA]

unfortunately... I actually respect a rational minded Republican, I think the core ideology is something to be valued but the current party has turned into a party of Rush Limbaugh's, Sean Hannity's and Dick Cheney's... that's not the Republican party of Lincoln.

[Aiden057]

If we have anyone or anything to fear, it is Cheney himself. It was under HIS administration that 9/11/01 took place! So, Dick, who "kept American safe?" NOT YOU! Now, crawl back into your box, and as your good buddy on Fox (Hoax News) says: SHUT UP. Dick, don't you support the President, the Commander-in-Chief in TIME OF WAR?

[zndprophet]

Why does Dick Cheney hate America so much?

[OlivierdeAthos]

Bush Administration put Condi Rice (an expert on the USSR) in as National Security Advisor in 2000. First thing she and Cheney did was demote Richard Clarke (anti-terrorism Czar) and re-boot the old Reagan-era STAR WARS program from the 1980s! They clearly didn't think anti-terrorism was improtant.

Nine months into their administration the country is attacked by terrorists. What do they do? Blame it on Clinton, of course.

[hb2998]

Excellent points, but lets add one more which has been made:

America has not been attacked since 9-11 because the we have sent our soldiers for the terrorists to target in their own backyard.

[taoofmichael]

2001 -- 50 worldwide suicide bomb attacks.

2005 -- 500 worldwide suicide bomb attacks.

I guess America is safe. But the rest of the world is a shooting gallery, because of Cheney, his Iraq war, torture, Guantanamo, and Abu Graib.

And the constitution is toilet paper.

I am a progressive Obama fan, on most things. But the constitution is still toilet paper, until we get back to the rule of law.

[scipio2009]

No offense, but why is that point always brought up, when people try to defend the Bush Administration? It' the definition of a "red herring" statement!

Before 9/11 happened, when was the last time we were attacked, by a foreign power, on U.S. soil? Pearl Harbor?

If anything, we've been the least safe under Bush the Younger.

[scipio2009]

After 9 months in office, after the intelligence apparently told the Bush Administration that something was coming for months, Bush/Cheney leave office with the lives of almost 10,000 Americans on their hands, counting those who died on 9/11 and the soldiers from the war in Afghanistan and the invasion of Iraq.

What's worse is that Afghanistan is in the same shape, if not worse shape, than it was when things started, yet we're safer?

[faifaalelei]

Wow, lets see if Limbaugh got anything to say towards this man.

[SubmarinerAndroid]

If there is one Republican who will not bow to Rush it's Hagel.

[rickamabob13]

Cool, Sen Hagel(R-NE) a man with intellegence displaying common sense.

[OlivierdeAthos]

Absolutely. He's the last moderate, common sense Republican. Which probably explains why he's not running for re-election. He'd never survive the primary.

[grazon]

There are two others in Maine and they're both Senators.