An estimated 7.5 million died in america during about the same amount of time, im sure Stalin planned the great depression too. I've noticed how most of the comments here use this convienient period of time to push ignorance and hate. Americans, the propoganda fed too you was more effective then anything the soviets ever fabricated.
Unintentional famines caused by weather conditions and error and aggravated by harsh Soviet policies due to unawareness of the extent of shortage and the need to industrialize because of foreign military threat and Stalin's paranoia do not constitute genocide. The idea that it was planned by Stalin against ethnic Ukrainians is little more than a conspiracy theory.
@IPlayWithFire135 what weather conditions are you talking about? every Holodomor surviver in UA says that there was no problems with harvest, all was simply taken from people and often sent abroad EVTH that could have been eaten was taken away from people and it had nothing to do with collectivization
@talinnia There was bad weather and wheat crop rust in many areas, extending outside the borders of the Soviet Union. In fact, by 1932 there had been two poor harvests in a row. One thing that escalated it was the fact that Ukraine was a designated producer region because of its normally lush harvests, so the grain from Ukraine fed the whole USSR and formed the bulk of exports. Because of that it got hit harder than other areas. It had everything to do with weather and collectivization.
It is well known that the USSR did have severe weather issues. I could send you the relevant sources, none are by communists. And there was famine all over the USSR, even in places like Siberia. One odd thing about anti-ukrainian theory is that almost as many Ukrainians of ethnic Russian descent died in Ukraine as Ukrainians of Ukrainian descent! A story by a token relative doesn't prove it was a genocide made by Stalin, it proves a Soviet soldier didn't like Ukrainians.
@IPlayWithFire135 Ukraine didn't have severe weather issues. USSR was a big stupid country. Bad weather conditions in one part didnät mean it happened in another part. This year the harvest in UA was good, so good that USSR could send the grain collected in UA to Europe for free, as humanitarian aid.
@IPlayWithFire135 To cut off all trafic from/to starving territorries, how does this has to do with collectivization? to deliberately isolate starving people, to make it totally impossible to find food anywhere, what has it to do with collectivization? why only few km away from boarder with Kharkiv obl., in Russia, people were not starving? some ukr managed to exchange their clothes etc for food
@IPlayWithFire135 kolhosp property decree meant death penalty for stealing grain in the field. Unproductive villages in Ukraineand the Kuban were deprived of manufactured goods and food stuffs. Villages were cordoned off and left to starve.
@IPlayWithFire135 the discussion with you is so meaningless, on your channel you posted soviet symbols - your opinion is known in advance. Same story we'ver heard many times since the soviet era, same arguments... Sad...
@IPlayWithFire135 but what to do, there are some marginal, unexepted by the thinking population groups, as neo-nazis and neo-communists... thank god you are only marginal
Stalin clearly didn't want to lose the Ukraine. He repeatedly berated his people there over shortages. He ordered bad policies stopped and released emergency stores of food. That said, I have no doubt some of the local bureaucrats had intentions to ethinically cleanse Ukraine, thus allowing no food. Many of them were sent to the GULAG camp system afterward for the extent of the Holodomor in Ukraine. Blame them, not Jews or communists or Russians.
By 1933, Moscow realized the extent of shortages and stopped the no-grain-until- quotas-are-met policy. Most of the USSR at the time was a peasant society, which are notoriously vulnerable to famine.
Think how history would have gone if Stalin hadn't taken measures to industrialize the USSR. The Nazis would have won in Europe and countless millions more Jews, Slavs and others would have been slaughtered. Stalin saved far more than he supposedly killed.
@IPlayWithFire135 bullshit you learned from your communist compatriots. It is wellknown that Ukraine didn't have any problems with harvest these years. Evth that could be eaten was taken away, not only the grain, absolutely evth. If people were seen eating the soup - it was emmediately poured out. Only few km away from Kharkiv reg e.g. in Russia people were not starving.
@IPlayWithFire135 those ukrainians who tried to go to neigbouring russian territorry to search for food were stoped and any food they could find was confiscated. Some UA territorry was blocked so that people could not leave the starving villages. Relative to one of my friend survived HOlodomor.
@IPlayWithFire135 Stalin had many political reasons to do so: 1 the communist party in Ukraine refused to support his politics. As he said it himself he was loosing his grip on Ukraine, he thought he would loose it. In 1 of his letter he wrote that this problem needed to be solved immediately. 2. ukr villages were the most powerfull opposition to his politics. Nationalism grew fast. At that time several paysants strikes took place every day.
@IPlayWithFire135 soviet symbols on your profile shows that you are a real lover of its retarded ideology, it would be stupid to expect some like that to have some understanding of soviets crimes. All normal people already understood what evil it was, but for others, obviously, it may take much longer time to get it...
This is a typical 'soviet' type of propaganda trying to keep the genie in the bottle. Unfortunately, too bad for Putin and all the surviving ex-NKVD cadres the genie has already escaped and you cannot hide the truth. Even Stalin cannot!
True Russians died from the NKVD however, the HOLODOMOR was the greatest mass murder ever conceived in human history.
It is time for Russia to do as Germany in Nuremberg did and rid itself of communists. Prosecute the alive perpetrators of this genocide!
Perhaps, died less, than 6 millions of Jews. However, it can't justify other Hitler's crmes... Hitler exterminated many Russians, Poles. Belorussians, and as well, Ukrainians...
this is a genicide im ukrainian this shit is sad homie .. n no one wants 2 reconize this shit as a genocide fuck it man UKRAINIAN PRIDE ITS UKRAINIAN IN MY BLOOD ALL UKRAINIANS HAVE UR PRIDE BE PROUD
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it must be a duck. The Holodomor was real, and was a planned genocide of the Ukrainian people. That is a historical reality, a historical truth and no matter how you whitewash or revise history this dark era cannot be changed. This Holodomor happened to wipe out the Ukrainian narod.
This is a quote from a communist leader speaking in the Kharkiv region in 1934:
"Famine in Ukraine was brought on to decrease the number of Ukrainians, replace the dead with people from other parts of the USSR, and thereby to kill the slightest thought of any Ukrainian independence."
- V. Danilov et al., Sovetskaia derevnia glazami OGPU_NKVD. T. 3, kn.2. Moscow 2004. P.572
Kobzatoronto, my hero! Moskal Zhids in collusion with Finns and Mongols conspire to wioe out the true slavic race of Canadians who think they are Ukrainian! They killed millions of us!
Clearly YOU do not.. Karl Marx was a Jew, Trotsky (Bronstein) was a jew, Lenin? Of 500 leaders in the first Bolshvik congress (or whatever it was called) 430 were jews, the commissars were often jews - yes Stalin had purges against jews as they were in many positions of power which he wanted to fill with trusted lieutenants (but have a paranoid maniac anyway).. Don't focus on WWII and after, look at history pre-WWII - the jews were running the show!
The Holodomor was not only against Ukrainians, but also against anti-communist conservative Russian middle-class and rural kulaks (farmers) who resisted the Bolshevist tyranny of Stalin-Kaganovich-Lenin-Trotsky-Yagoda-Drzezinski. It was not committed by "the" Russian people, but by Marxists like Lazar Moses'ivich Kaganovich and Levi Yagoda (Bär) and other Bolshevik apparatnicks. Yushenko is wrong, and Putin is wrong too. Solzhenytsin was right. But the Holodomor happened, really!!!
I never said all Russians are guilty. Only those who cooperated as NKVD, GPU and Cheka forces were guilty of the Holodomor true holocaust. Many conservative anticommunist Russians also died. But mostly the Ukrainian people suffered. The Russians are not guilty: the principal guilty persons are Stalin, Yagoda and first and foremost Lazar Moses Kaganovich.
Then answer me a question! The country at us at that time was uniform! Correctly? The authority had everything, both Russian, and Georgians, and Jews (them was most of all)! There was no concept Russia, was the USSR! Into People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs entered as all! Because the uniform USSR!
I know. It was internationalist Soviet Union, and I know many were Jews. We cannot blame all Jews, nor all Russians. It was individuals who were responsible. Although Kaganovich' genocidal activities caused much antisemitism among Ukrainian survivors.... The Holodomor belongs into the Blackbook of Communist Crimes against Humanity. It was not a "Russian vs. Ukrainians" genocide exactly. We agree?
Yes, I with you agree! By the way, as I already wrote to someone, in Ukraine suffered not only inhabitants of Ukraine! Those years in Ukraine in the city of Donetsk my Grandfather was born! His father was Russian and they too have strongly suffered!
Thats my opinion as well (I'm British though) - the USSR was not 'Russia'; many people had no choice but to go along with it all as many patriots had been killed in WWI and the White VS Red battles - criminals were freed from jails to be policemen and all richer/educated/aristocratic parts of society were murdered.. Russians and Ukranians are brothers with a shared history!
i completely agree on what you said for Russians and Ukranians being brothers with a shared history. Ukranians have betrayed their slavanic roots and resulted into pushing themselves as far away from russia as possible. However, you noted on Jews running the USSR before WWII, however I was speaking of the USSR after WWII. After Stalin came into power, the high anti-semitism stepped into play and very little Jews remained in power.
Lazar Kaganovich remained in power under Stalin's rule and Yuri Andropov was Jewish too, in fact, but the latter hid his ethnic origins. Still, until 1949 even under Stalin the majority of the Party leadership were Jews. Nazis could just quote the list. They needed no propaganda. And remember Iljah Ehrenburg?
@P1B1U1H1 Molotov was a successor to Maxim Litvinov, who was Soviet foreign minister until July 1939, and Jewish. Molotov was married to a Jewish lady though, who was a girlfriend of Golda Meir. Are you trying to deny these facts. Until 1948, the Stalin-Trotsky conflict did not divide Communism. In the USSR, the Communist Party had a large Jewish majority. Even in Holland, our party leader Saul de Groot was Jewish.
@IustitiaPax Litvinov was not responsible for the Ukraine famine. Molotov was NOT Jewish, as you just admitted; his wife is irrelevant. There were also three other guys, none of whom were Jewish, who were in charge. You can blame Jews for as much as you wish; this does not make Stalin or Beria Jewish. Trotsky, the prototypical Jew, was exiled before the famine. NO JEWS NOT IN THE USSR AT THE TIME CAN BE BLAMED FOR THE ACTS OF RUSSIANS, JEWISH OR OTHERWISE. Was Mao Tse Tung Jewish to you?
@P1B1U1H1 1. Of course I do not blame non-Soviet Jews for the crimes of the Holodomor by Kaganovich and the OGPU. Although Jewish media cartells like the New York Times already in 1932 spread propaganda denying the Holodomor constantly. 2. Before the exile of Trotsky, already millions of civilians had been murdered and enslaved by the Bolshevik regime. 3. I never stated that all Soviet leaders were Jewish. Not at all, but Jews were disproportionately represented.
@IustitiaPax Those who want Jews facing a wall before bullets are put in their brains use terms like your orthographically interesting "Jewish media cartells".
@P1B1U1H1 Your repulsive sacrilegious "laughing" about the Holodomor victims is hypocritical, given the reaction you would give on Holocaust revisionism.
@P1B1U1H1 You are a paid activist from Yesha or Sheli? Molotov was part of the Soviet regime during the Holodomor, and organized grain export and the cover-up of the Holodomor to the Polish and Romanian governments. Kaganovich was Jewish. Yagoda was Jewish. Again, I am not blaming all Jews for Bolshevism. I would never oversimplify and blame the isolationist and ultra-orthodox Jews of Hungary or Transcarpathian Ruthenia for secular Marxist Jews' crimes.
@P1B1U1H1 Please take back your calumnious statement, that I "wish to blame Jews". This is not the case. I just made a factual comment. I know Sheli, Yesha and the ADL all deny the Holodomor and want it denied and minimized. This is what Abe Foxman was in Kiev for in 2008. I even own a video of it. And Yoav Shamir thematized it in his Israeli documentary "Defamation". There are enormous lists of the Jewish regional leaders of the OGPU, NKVD. Or think of Lev Kamenev.
@IustitiaPax The leadership of any government is small minority of the population. No one has ever blamed Georgians. Stalin and Beria were both from Georgia. Russia today (not including those breakaways): 141,927,297; Georgia today: 4,436,000 By this bigoted analysis, a population less than one thirtieth that of Russia killed 10,000,000 people. No, wait, it's 20,000,000. Oh, my gosh, it's up to 100,000,000 persons today.
@P1B1U1H1 Mao Tse Tung was not Jewish. But Mikhail Borodin (Mikhail Gruzenberg), the Comintern advisor to Sun Yat Sen and sponsor of the rise of Mao, was a Soviet Jew. Important Komintern agent until 1949, when he was purged by Kaganovich. Karl Radek (Karol Sobelsohn) of the Komintern criticized all non-Maoists in the 1920s, but he felt Republic of China was not yet ready for full revolution.
@IustitiaPax Sun Yat Sen is revered by both Chinas; it would follow, were Borodin responsible for Mao, he would also be responsible for one of the greatest Chinese political figures of the twentieth century (he was responsible for neither). Borodin was expelled from China in 1928. He served as deputy director of the Tass news agency and editor of the Moscow Daily News (1932 – 49). Stalin purged him as part of an effort to rid Russia of Jewish intellectuals.
@P1B1U1H1 I told you, that the Komintern and the creation of the CPC was influenced determinantly by Jewish Communists. Borodin was never purged until 1949. This was during the anti-Zionist campaign of Soviet secret services. Not of Jewish intellectuals. But of "Trotskyists" and "Zionist spies". Kaganovich and other pro-Stalin Soviet Jewish notables lived on without any problems.
@IustitiaPax Seems like Stalin murdered an awful lot of Jews in high places. That axe in Trotsky's head appears to be philosemitism to you. Oh, what the heck, you won't be satisfied until you get to shoot every Jew on the planet. Why people are so interested in murdering others intrigues.
@P1B1U1H1 Sorry for you dude. I would have to kill my Jewish Roman Catholic convert grandmother. I am not an antisemite. I am not. I just oppose your perversion of historical facts which causally preceded and supported HaShoah. Trotsky was killed by NKVD agent, informed of his presence by a Jewish pro-Stalinist Communist from Texas (USA). Not every time an internal Jewish feud or everything a Jew is killed, it is antisemitism. In 1940, most Jews still sided with Stalin, especially in Poland.
@P1B1U1H1 Stalin was philosemitic always. He was always pro-Zionist, while also promoting assimilation of the religious Jews of the USSR territory into model Soviet citizens (without national identification, only with Soviet system). This worked: millions were assimilated, especially in the late 1940s. Stalin supported the creation of the State of Israel and by Czechoslovak arms supplies despite the embargo, helped Haganah and Israeli Army to win the Arab-Israeli War of 1947-48. Facts!
@P1B1U1H1 The Doctors' Plot was exclusively an affair of Anti-Zionism. Mátyás Rosenfeld (Rákosi) of Hungary also enacted the same policy, himself a Jew. Marxist anti-Zionism is not antisemitism. Stalin was convinced that Jewish nationalism (Zionism) was bourgeois and a toy of American OSS and CIA. In some aspects he was right. A lot of Communist Jews supported Stalin on this. The Doctors' Plot was not a machination. You just repeat the Lavrentiy Beria version after Stalin's death by poison.
@P1B1U1H1 Josif Stalin was not an antisemite. It is the version of history of Trotskyism and Zionism after Golda Meir, to claim Stalin was an antisemite. He was never, ever. His daughters married Jews, he married Sarah Kaganovich as his third wife in fact. Stalin was until the end of 1948 a convinced pro-Zionist, but by early 1949 started to become an Anti-Zionist. That is all. Of course many Trotskyists were Jews, because they had an international outlook.
@P1B1U1H1 He was the first to give jews a homeland, even tho it failed during his last year it is today one of the odlest places where jews have had a self governed (autonomous) nation to live in, free from political bullshit found in Israel.
@P1B1U1H1 Stalin became merely anti-Zionist by 1948 and 1949, when Israeli foreign policy alligned with the USA, while harbouring leading Trotskists too. As for Jewish stalinism. Our CPN (Communist Party of the Netherlands) was led by Saul de Groot. And other Jewish stalinists include: Harry Dexter White, Aleksandr Orlov/Felbing, Abraham Silverman etc. etc. You do not fool me.
@P1B1U1H1 I think very unbiasedly by the way; my grandfather was a Communist (non-Jewish), my kind neighbour was a rich Amsterdam Jewish anti-communist, married to a Catholic lady who died recently. He even fled to Suriname in 1956 and already in 1938 warned Jews in Holland not to continue pro-Communist activities, but to promote emancipation in peace and harmony. Compared to Danes and Frisian and French neighbours, I am extremely philosemitic and considered "pro-Zionist" for some of my stances!
@P1B1U1H1 You chap do not understand, that the Calvinist cultural spheres never actively embraced antisemitism every. I may be Catholic, but I was influenced by this Calvinist view sociologically. That is why I defend Israeli citizens. Most European intellectuals at my university think like Helen Thomas that "Jews should go back to Poland, Russia and Germany from Palestine". I just tend to hate anti-historical Hollywood and DC myths on Jewish political history. I am not a fool, chap.
@P1B1U1H1 You cannot provide arguments against my statements of facts and my listing of Communist pro-Stalinist Jewish individuals, that you resort to name-calling. My posts bear no falsehood. yours do sadly enough.
@IustitiaPax Of course, Stalin and Beria were not Jewish. Moreover, Stalin really got to hate the Jews; he killed off Trotsky after all. Find out about the Doctor's plot.
@P1B1U1H1 Nonsense. At the time of the Holodomor Lazar Kaganovich ruled, who was Jewish. Also the secret police OGPU was ruled by Henrikh Yagoda, also Jewish and controlled by Jewish officers (secular Jews of course). The conflict between Trotsky and Stalin was not on Jewish ancestry at all. This is all post-1953 rewriting of Soviet history by American Jewish historians, who sympathize with Trotskyism. Trotsky also murdered millions of civilians in the USSR until 1929.
@IustitiaPax Andropov was the son of a railway official Vladimir Konstantinovich Andropov, who was a member of a Don Cossack noble family.His mother was Yevgenia Karlovna Fleckenstein, a daughter of a wealthy Moscow businessman, German Karl Franzovich Fleckenstein, of Finland origin from Vyborg. Andropov is a name of Greek origin. Fleckenstein is a German habitational name from a lost place called Fleckenstein, in the Vosges mountains (Alsace).
Putin Russia is implicated, because they still venerate Stalin as "The Greatest Russian Ever" (he was not even Russian) and because Russian children are told to love Stalin. Stalin was not even Russian, but Ossetian-Georgian. In Georgia (or in Gori) the schoolchildren are taught about Stalin's genocides and crimes, NOT about how great Stalin was. It seems the Russian government wants to glorify Stalin as father of the Russians? That is falsification. KGB strategy.
I think it is incorrect that the Russian people must "answer". I do not agree with Yushenko or NATO instrumentalization of the Holodomor. I know the Ukrainians were most numerous victims of this genocide, but it was a Communist genocide against Christians (incl. Ukrainians, but also some Russians and numerous Cossacks too).
Georgians and Kazahks were not in the government officially, and their modern governments do not defend Stalin anymore, like Putin Russia still does sadly enough.
By the way, if you do not know, already our parents learned, that Stalin was the vermin! In the USSR in 1956 have begun сносить all his monuments! There was only one in GORI!
De-Stalinization in the Soviet Union and Russia was reversed after 1998. Putin restored Stalin to honour. Stalin is again venerated by Russian Communists, sadly enough. Even by United Rossiya Party of Putin and Medvedev....
Well we shall tell that in Russia communists remained very little! Basically they are supported by old men (very few old men of them support), young for them does not vote! The communist party dies!
I really do not understand, why we do not have day of grief on victims during famine! But for this purpose as has told Medvedev, it is necessary to gather to all injured peoples and to make uniform day of mourning!
Holodomor should include Ukrainians (majority of victims), Cossacks, Russians and Kazachs. They were all targetted by the Bolshevists of Kaganovich. As to Marxism in Rossiya: the Communist Party of the Russian Federation has only 15 % voters, but Putin and Medvedev and all elite persons are from the KGB (FSB now). That is true, not? Was not KGB the international Marxist revolution's apparatus until recently? Is Putin a Marxist, or a national-Russian-marxist?
Ukraine and Russia are both terrible places to live in. I am happy here in United States. I gave up on both countries, because I feel no proudness having back ground from there. It is sad indeed, but what can we do? I am glad that I am half English. At least I have something to be proud of.
Don't give me that attitude chap. In America you are allowed to express your opinion as well as in Russia and Ukraine. I said nothing about the country being bad; however, the economy is very unstable. Although America's economy is doing terrible too, Russian and Ukrainian well-being is sinking down the drain. A citizen has a chance to have a better life here in United States. Ask yourself, why do people move to US? To have a better life mate...
Yes, on the account of KGB you are right! But in Putin I personally from marxist I do not see anything! The marxism is in fact idea of general equality! All authority to working class! Now in Russia absolutely on another! The poor class has remained. The middle class started to appear! At last for 70 years the freedom of speech has appeared!
Know, I do not support Putin's policy(politics) inside the country! But problems inside the country it is our problems! And you for certain with me agree. And here I completely support foreign policy of our president! And you can criticize me for it)
By the way, at me the question has appeared. Why you have taken that Putin прекрывает Stalin's politics! It on the contrary criticizes he. Compares Saakashvily to Stalin! It can to you so present, but at us in the country, once again I speak, Stalin - one of the main enemies of people!!!!
Where and when did KGB-officer Vladimir Putin call Stalin an "enemy of the people"? Where did he criticize Stalin? Never. Never a criticism of Yagoda or Drzhezinsky (KGB founder)? Never. Despite millions of murders in GULAG etc.
Watch not only Poland TV. Today in St. Petersburg he critisised Stalin for famine. So shut up about "when did he criticize". Open your eyes and watch some other channels, not only Polish.
I am not from Poland, I am from Holland. I do not even understand most of Polish tv. I would like reference, content, date and hour when Vladimir Putin (KGB) criticized Stalin. Of course a minor criticism of Stalin, like the criminal Marxist Mr Nikita Chrusev gave in 1955 and 1959, do not suffice. When did Vladimir Putin officially condemn Soviet atrocities and Stalin's rule? And Marxism? In 2005 Putin said he laments the demise of the Soviet Union, and that he wants it restored for Russia..!
If to you do not show, it does not mean that it is not present! At us show on the TV, write in newspapers! Can to you do not show, what you badly would think of us? That most likely! To us in fact too quite often about you badly speak.
I just want a source. Given me a source. It is not reported by RIANovosti or Pravda. Instead, I constantly see Stalin Memorials restored, which were demolished under Nikita Khruchev. I do not think bad about Russians, I just oppose Marxism-Leninism and Soviet atrocities. The Soviet "glory" was not moral glory of the Russian nation. Solzhenytsin was, Soloviev was, St. Vladimir was.
Putin participated in a memorial day, see Kommersant of 31/10/2007 (archives on the site). And he gave this attitude: "tragedies of this kind happened repeatedly in the history of mankind when they tried to put some idea above the principal values — human life, rights and freedoms of a person".
Putin never said he wants SSSR restored, even if he did say that the end of it was a "major geopolitical catastrophe". In the next part of that speach he talked of Russias sharing european values;)
Putin said that people who do not want to restore the Soviet Union, do not have hearts. But that it is not possible in the present economic world system (yet). I am not anti-Putin per se, you know. I know certain Western leaders are untrustworthy too and internationalists. Like the Marxists of Soviet Union.
Actually, I think that this quotation goes like this: "Those, who do not miss CCCP, do not have a heart. And those who want it back, do not have a brain".
I am not sure that Putin is the author of this one, maybe he only repeated it.
I know, but I meant another quote. The KGB-FSB wants a new Russian-nationalist and semi-socialist (they are already nationalizing industries - like Obama in the US, see reports by Pat Buchanan paleocons) system. The old Soviet system was bankrupt and not efficient. They know this. People no longer believed that system. But did Putin really abjure materialism, Marxist atheism? Why is abortion so high in Russia still! With a shrinking population! Still allowed! Such a shame. Not in PL even!
Sirs, here at the some people logic such: " everything perished for famine, but famine has been all the same directed against inhabitants of Ukraine! Well this idiocy! If Stalin was not the Georgian, Georgians too would start talking about HOLODOMOR)))
Stalin was Georgian and Southern Ossetian. This is proven. And his adoptive spiritual father was a Jewish merchant, who brought him from the Russian Orthodox and Georgian Orthodox seminaries into contact with the Marxist parties' revolutionaries, who all destroyed the Russian Empire and true Russian culture. And Ukrainian culture in the Holodomor by Lazar Kaganovich.
His father Beso Dzhugashvili and mother Kaka Geladze, have completely the Georgian names and were citizens of Georgia! He was born in Georgian city Gori! Where you have read, what he the Osset? He in Russian plainly did not talk))))
WHAT Americans about голодоморе can know? The Russian historians have correspondences and Stalin's documentation! Famine has concerned all grain countries (Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan)
"Голод на Україні був викликаний для того, щоб зменшити кількість українців, пересилити на їхнє місце людей з іншої частини СРСР і цим убити будь-яку думку про самостійність."
,,, Прокопенко, уповноважений Сахновщинського районного виконавчого комітету (Харківської області) проговорився про голод перед групою колгоспників 12 травня 1934 р.
- V. Danilov et al., Sovetskaia derevnia glazami OGPU_NKVD. T. 3, kn.2. Moscow 2004. P.572
Funny how some people (mostly from USA) have known about Holodomor just few hours ago, and thought that they are historical experts )) This is really crazy.
Wow! The horrible effects of socialism/communism. And we in the US just elected a socialist president, a socialist democratic congress. The genocide of abortion has already murdered 45 million in US alone since 1973. All governments ultimately end in committing genocide against people. The governments of the world are the beast spoken of in the Book of Revelations.
Facts and arguments are always uncomfortable for Americans. No surprise. The funniest thing that such persons like you always think that their opinion is ONLY ONE TRUE. Naive morons.
Russia many time ago recognize this famine as criminal action against Soviet people
BUT NOT ONLY AGAINST UKRAINIANS. How fuckin' stupid people can't understand it? No one argue that is was horrible action of Stalin regime. But ALL FACTS denied the "genocide" of Ukrainians. This is political moment of USA and their puppets (Ushenko never said about millions of deaths in Russia and Kazakhstan, you know why). And as history say, Ukrainians local authorities response on deaths of Ukrainians.
The Soviet famines and Holodomor were used by Lazar Mosesovich Kaganovich (d. 1991) and Genrikh Yagoda (d. 1938) and Joseph Stalin to reduce the numbers of anti-communist conservative and Christian farmers, mostly among the Ukrainian people, but also among cossacks and ethnic Russians. It was a Political Genocide. Stalin was a tyrant and murderer, and NKVD cooperated. Russia should admit this. Ukraine should stop alleging it was Russians who planned the H. Kaganovich was no Russian, nor Yagoda.
Holodomor is a fact. But modern Ukraine may not abuse the Genocide against Ukrainians (and Russian conservative farmers and kulaks and Christian Cossacks), in its battle with Putin Russia. It was Kaganovich and Bolshevists who caused the Genocide and planned it. Not the Russian people. The Russian people were victims too, although far less than the Ukrainian SSR's inhabitants.
I think that the newly emerged Cossack organizations in the Kuban and the Don should bring up the holodomor issue that tok place on their lands as well. There could be many songs written composed and sung by the Kuban Cossack Chorus for example dealing with the holodomor etc...
Who ever is responsible for the famine, they are monsters.
I blame the Worlds richest families, the Oligarchy, the Banksters. They caused the market crashes and the World Wars. Every last one of them should have been rounded up, thrown in jail and put on trial.
We should not show any mercy to these same families today because their inheritors are causing a repeat of those dark days of the past.
It was Stalin and his pals diabolic plan. It effected whole USSR and hit Ukraine hardest (because of biggest % of farmers). I think they didnt target Ukraine people because of some master plan to wipe them. They simply targeted farmers. Russia had larger urban population so they were less affected.
So it was genocide against farmers of USSR.
I think that is what Russia need to say. Nothing more.
Russia under the current KGB leadership will not admit "great" Stalin's reputation to be tainted. It was the NKVD (pre-KGB) which helped in creating the Holodomor and the Genocide against the cossacks, Ukrainians, Christian Russian kulaks and other "enemies of the people" (of the Marxist system).
Ass for the hate against russians, i think it would help if russia recognized this as a genocide. it is true, it's not vova's or medveedev's fault this had happened, it was stalin who's mother was georgian, and his close comrades, but then why won't russia recognize this as genocide? why do they so strongly protest against it? the answer is simple, they feel guilty about it. i think if russians finally want to live as brothers, the first step should be to support holodomor.
Why is there no holodomor memorial to commemorate the millions who died among the Don Cossacks, Kuban Cossacks and farmers of southern Russia, Lower Volga and central chornozem? Why doesn't the Russian government have similar memorials instead of victory day parades every May? The same for Kazakhstan. Many died in the Kazakh famine yet what has the post-soviet Kazakh government done to commemorate their famine?
That's a completely different story. in those cases there was poor harvest, and no food.
In ukraine, the soldiers would walk out on the fields and burn crops, walk in the house and take away all the food, this wasn't a poor harvest, this was more like stealing food from starving families and then claiming it was poor harvest.
Anyway, that's what i heard, but if it's just another cummunist propaganda, if it was genocide in volga, don and kuban region, then they should too recognize genocide.
Actually in the Don and Kuban the grain requisitions were the same as in Ukraine with high quotas. In Kuban the procuremnts were harsher than in Ukraine. In Conquest's Book "Harvest of Sorrow" there is a chapter on Kuban where he quotes eyewitnesses seeing whole Cossack stanitsas in rebellion and where red Army forces were sent in with tanks, personnel carriers and even artillery. In various places peasants and cossacks were engaged in uprisings and acts of violence against soviet authorities.
as ukrainians, we should be ashamed of ourselves. Even though many countries have recognized holodomor as genocide against ukrainians, i have read in ukrainian newspaper two weeks ago, that the ukrainian politicians are still arguing whether it should be recognized as genocide!!! Especially the communist party and regionals, if we have such politicians, then i am afraid for my country and its future.
Uschenko is just another zionist and inciting national strife to russians is meaning of his life. Wake up people!!! We should live in friendship and respect each other.
..russia denounces.. how typical.
Trinivalts 10 months ago
Jewish communists-crimes against humanity.Smash the communist jews once and for all.
Bronxloyalist 10 months ago
Genocide is typical of any version of any totalitarian rule.
JuanitaEstrada 1 year ago
This genocide was done on purpose, facts support the case, there is no doubt.
Great Depression caused, made worse, and lengthened by FDR who was a progressive which is basically the same type of thinking as a communist/marxist.
JuanitaEstrada 1 year ago
Hitler was right
EasternEuropean86 1 year ago
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Ukrainians don't run the US, don't possess media, don't control finance like the Jews..
but they are not second class people and their dead must be remembered.
rambo753 1 year ago
An estimated 7.5 million died in america during about the same amount of time, im sure Stalin planned the great depression too. I've noticed how most of the comments here use this convienient period of time to push ignorance and hate. Americans, the propoganda fed too you was more effective then anything the soviets ever fabricated.
handofhashut 1 year ago
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watcherwatcher2 1 year ago
Your title is deceiving.
It was indeed a genocide,
carried out by the Jewish Lead Bolsheviks.
That why you never hear about it in the Media.
Owned by the same dung on God's plate.
TheMinistryOfDefense 1 year ago
Unintentional famines caused by weather conditions and error and aggravated by harsh Soviet policies due to unawareness of the extent of shortage and the need to industrialize because of foreign military threat and Stalin's paranoia do not constitute genocide. The idea that it was planned by Stalin against ethnic Ukrainians is little more than a conspiracy theory.
IPlayWithFire135 1 year ago
@IPlayWithFire135 what weather conditions are you talking about? every Holodomor surviver in UA says that there was no problems with harvest, all was simply taken from people and often sent abroad EVTH that could have been eaten was taken away from people and it had nothing to do with collectivization
talinnia 1 year ago
@talinnia There was bad weather and wheat crop rust in many areas, extending outside the borders of the Soviet Union. In fact, by 1932 there had been two poor harvests in a row. One thing that escalated it was the fact that Ukraine was a designated producer region because of its normally lush harvests, so the grain from Ukraine fed the whole USSR and formed the bulk of exports. Because of that it got hit harder than other areas. It had everything to do with weather and collectivization.
IPlayWithFire135 1 year ago
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talinnia 1 year ago
@talinnia
It is well known that the USSR did have severe weather issues. I could send you the relevant sources, none are by communists. And there was famine all over the USSR, even in places like Siberia. One odd thing about anti-ukrainian theory is that almost as many Ukrainians of ethnic Russian descent died in Ukraine as Ukrainians of Ukrainian descent! A story by a token relative doesn't prove it was a genocide made by Stalin, it proves a Soviet soldier didn't like Ukrainians.
IPlayWithFire135 1 year ago
@IPlayWithFire135 Ukraine didn't have severe weather issues. USSR was a big stupid country. Bad weather conditions in one part didnät mean it happened in another part. This year the harvest in UA was good, so good that USSR could send the grain collected in UA to Europe for free, as humanitarian aid.
talinnia 1 year ago
@IPlayWithFire135 To cut off all trafic from/to starving territorries, how does this has to do with collectivization? to deliberately isolate starving people, to make it totally impossible to find food anywhere, what has it to do with collectivization? why only few km away from boarder with Kharkiv obl., in Russia, people were not starving? some ukr managed to exchange their clothes etc for food
talinnia 1 year ago
@IPlayWithFire135 thi soldier was hired by communists to do so. Evth he or other soldiers did came from the top
talinnia 1 year ago
@IPlayWithFire135 kolhosp property decree meant death penalty for stealing grain in the field. Unproductive villages in Ukraineand the Kuban were deprived of manufactured goods and food stuffs. Villages were cordoned off and left to starve.
talinnia 1 year ago
@talinnia worth to mention that the majority of Kubans population were ukrainians
talinnia 1 year ago
@talinnia
Hahaha. Ok. You obviously have read nothing I write and keep slinging retarded ad-hominems at me, so answer me this:
If it was a genocide of Ukraine, then why was the entire of the USSR affected?
If it was a genocide of Ukrainians, why didn't they finish the job?
If it was a genocide of Ukrainians, why were relief measures taken?
And areas were blocked off to contain famine. This is common sense.
IPlayWithFire135 1 year ago
@IPlayWithFire135 the discussion with you is so meaningless, on your channel you posted soviet symbols - your opinion is known in advance. Same story we'ver heard many times since the soviet era, same arguments... Sad...
talinnia 1 year ago
@IPlayWithFire135 but what to do, there are some marginal, unexepted by the thinking population groups, as neo-nazis and neo-communists... thank god you are only marginal
talinnia 1 year ago
@talinnia
Stalin clearly didn't want to lose the Ukraine. He repeatedly berated his people there over shortages. He ordered bad policies stopped and released emergency stores of food. That said, I have no doubt some of the local bureaucrats had intentions to ethinically cleanse Ukraine, thus allowing no food. Many of them were sent to the GULAG camp system afterward for the extent of the Holodomor in Ukraine. Blame them, not Jews or communists or Russians.
IPlayWithFire135 1 year ago
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talinnia 1 year ago
@IPlayWithFire135 Trying to leave his village he was stopped by a soldier who said that the village will be blocked "untill the last ukrainian dies"
talinnia 1 year ago
@talinnia
By 1933, Moscow realized the extent of shortages and stopped the no-grain-until- quotas-are-met policy. Most of the USSR at the time was a peasant society, which are notoriously vulnerable to famine.
Think how history would have gone if Stalin hadn't taken measures to industrialize the USSR. The Nazis would have won in Europe and countless millions more Jews, Slavs and others would have been slaughtered. Stalin saved far more than he supposedly killed.
IPlayWithFire135 1 year ago
@IPlayWithFire135 bullshit you learned from your communist compatriots. It is wellknown that Ukraine didn't have any problems with harvest these years. Evth that could be eaten was taken away, not only the grain, absolutely evth. If people were seen eating the soup - it was emmediately poured out. Only few km away from Kharkiv reg e.g. in Russia people were not starving.
talinnia 1 second ago
talinnia 1 year ago
@IPlayWithFire135 those ukrainians who tried to go to neigbouring russian territorry to search for food were stoped and any food they could find was confiscated. Some UA territorry was blocked so that people could not leave the starving villages. Relative to one of my friend survived HOlodomor.
talinnia 1 year ago
@IPlayWithFire135 Stalin had many political reasons to do so: 1 the communist party in Ukraine refused to support his politics. As he said it himself he was loosing his grip on Ukraine, he thought he would loose it. In 1 of his letter he wrote that this problem needed to be solved immediately. 2. ukr villages were the most powerfull opposition to his politics. Nationalism grew fast. At that time several paysants strikes took place every day.
talinnia 1 year ago
@IPlayWithFire135 nobody of the Holodomor survivers have any doubt about it beeing the act of genocide, but you think you know best...
talinnia 1 year ago
@IPlayWithFire135 shame on you to deny such a mass killing. NOne of the researchers nowadays doubts that it was an artificial famine.
talinnia 1 year ago
@IPlayWithFire135 soviet symbols on your profile shows that you are a real lover of its retarded ideology, it would be stupid to expect some like that to have some understanding of soviets crimes. All normal people already understood what evil it was, but for others, obviously, it may take much longer time to get it...
talinnia 1 year ago
@talinnia
So now in defeat you resort to ad-homs. The hammer and sickle is not only a Soviet symbol. Many who fly it hate the USSR.
It's no coincidence these videos turn into circle-jerks for Nazis and anti-semites of all kinds.
IPlayWithFire135 1 year ago
I hate Communists murderous bastards, I hope the Stalin Burning in hell with his Kollectif!! And i am not Ukrainian, i am Russian.
MrRobokoper 2 years ago
Judeo-bolchevik moscow made upp the ukrainian socialist sovietic republic.
Judeo-liberal moscow gave it its "independence" as a third-world banana republic.
The hollowdork never happened!
Ukraine is a lie invented by bolchevik Moscow to divide and better control russia!
Stop immigrating to my country and take care of your own if it really counts to you, you refugee vermine!
CraxiaI666 2 years ago
This is a typical 'soviet' type of propaganda trying to keep the genie in the bottle. Unfortunately, too bad for Putin and all the surviving ex-NKVD cadres the genie has already escaped and you cannot hide the truth. Even Stalin cannot!
True Russians died from the NKVD however, the HOLODOMOR was the greatest mass murder ever conceived in human history.
It is time for Russia to do as Germany in Nuremberg did and rid itself of communists. Prosecute the alive perpetrators of this genocide!
burko890 2 years ago 9
@burko890
Far worse than Holocaust and it happened in just one year. Why are the lives of Jews worth more than Ukrainians?
HokiesAndDawgs 1 year ago
@burko890
it wasn't in russia, but in ukraine, it isn't the same
philipsthebest 6 months ago
i hope the jews pay for this.
ashkenazimindcontrol 2 years ago
"Ukrainian genocide" is international lie!!!!!!!!!!!!
FalconfromRF 2 years ago
actually Jewish Holocaust is international yiddish lie.
ashkenazimindcontrol 2 years ago 3
Perhaps, died less, than 6 millions of Jews. However, it can't justify other Hitler's crmes... Hitler exterminated many Russians, Poles. Belorussians, and as well, Ukrainians...
FalconfromRF 2 years ago
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@ashkenazimindcontrol I believe that 6 million jews died and 7 million ukrainians died
siralucard19 8 months ago
this is a genicide im ukrainian this shit is sad homie .. n no one wants 2 reconize this shit as a genocide fuck it man UKRAINIAN PRIDE ITS UKRAINIAN IN MY BLOOD ALL UKRAINIANS HAVE UR PRIDE BE PROUD
RUSSOx7 3 years ago
Judeo-bolchevik mosocw created your false country, to divide the former Russian Empire.
Judeo-liberal Moscow gave it "independence", as a third-world mafia ruled banana republic.
CraxiaI666 2 years ago
@CraxiaI666 oh my god, so intelligent you are--- hope you understand irony :))))
talinnia 1 year ago
it was not socialism that did that. it was poor dealing within kremlin
12valvepower1 3 years ago
This was a crime against humanity and is definatly a genocide. No wonder they are running away from mother Russia.
murk2002 3 years ago 2
Another Kremlin diabolical deed:
See Youtube:
Ukrainians Honor 100 000 Killed in Forest by the Communist
(by Williamus)
Kobzatoronto 3 years ago
777Sim..
Ти один великий пердун.
Kobzatoronto 3 years ago
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it must be a duck. The Holodomor was real, and was a planned genocide of the Ukrainian people. That is a historical reality, a historical truth and no matter how you whitewash or revise history this dark era cannot be changed. This Holodomor happened to wipe out the Ukrainian narod.
jerrykoc 3 years ago 2
Сьогоднішний Кремл - одна велика брехня!
Втим і його керівники - Путін і Медведев!
Kobzatoronto 3 years ago
This is a quote from a communist leader speaking in the Kharkiv region in 1934:
"Famine in Ukraine was brought on to decrease the number of Ukrainians, replace the dead with people from other parts of the USSR, and thereby to kill the slightest thought of any Ukrainian independence."
- V. Danilov et al., Sovetskaia derevnia glazami OGPU_NKVD. T. 3, kn.2. Moscow 2004. P.572
Kobzatoronto 3 years ago
right no brother
jerrykoc 3 years ago
Kobzatoronto, my hero! Moskal Zhids in collusion with Finns and Mongols conspire to wioe out the true slavic race of Canadians who think they are Ukrainian! They killed millions of us!
KobzaPhantomShitter 2 years ago
Jewish communists killing Ukranian Christians?
Holocaust? Its perfectly acceptable whem Jews kill Christians,but not when Christians kill Jews...
satanic73 3 years ago 2
what Jews you idiot, there was a huge anti-semistic movement in the USSR, you clearly know nothing about history.
RADILSYAVCCCR 3 years ago
Clearly YOU do not.. Karl Marx was a Jew, Trotsky (Bronstein) was a jew, Lenin? Of 500 leaders in the first Bolshvik congress (or whatever it was called) 430 were jews, the commissars were often jews - yes Stalin had purges against jews as they were in many positions of power which he wanted to fill with trusted lieutenants (but have a paranoid maniac anyway).. Don't focus on WWII and after, look at history pre-WWII - the jews were running the show!
andy7666 3 years ago
Please watch the Youtube video:
The Jewish Bolshevik Movement
andy7666 3 years ago
The Holodomor was not only against Ukrainians, but also against anti-communist conservative Russian middle-class and rural kulaks (farmers) who resisted the Bolshevist tyranny of Stalin-Kaganovich-Lenin-Trotsky-Yagoda-Drzezinski. It was not committed by "the" Russian people, but by Marxists like Lazar Moses'ivich Kaganovich and Levi Yagoda (Bär) and other Bolshevik apparatnicks. Yushenko is wrong, and Putin is wrong too. Solzhenytsin was right. But the Holodomor happened, really!!!
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
And here I with you completely agree!
Anahay777 3 years ago
I cannot simply understand, why are guilty Russian?
Anahay777 3 years ago
I never said all Russians are guilty. Only those who cooperated as NKVD, GPU and Cheka forces were guilty of the Holodomor true holocaust. Many conservative anticommunist Russians also died. But mostly the Ukrainian people suffered. The Russians are not guilty: the principal guilty persons are Stalin, Yagoda and first and foremost Lazar Moses Kaganovich.
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
Then answer me a question! The country at us at that time was uniform! Correctly? The authority had everything, both Russian, and Georgians, and Jews (them was most of all)! There was no concept Russia, was the USSR! Into People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs entered as all! Because the uniform USSR!
Anahay777 3 years ago
I know. It was internationalist Soviet Union, and I know many were Jews. We cannot blame all Jews, nor all Russians. It was individuals who were responsible. Although Kaganovich' genocidal activities caused much antisemitism among Ukrainian survivors.... The Holodomor belongs into the Blackbook of Communist Crimes against Humanity. It was not a "Russian vs. Ukrainians" genocide exactly. We agree?
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
Yes, I with you agree! By the way, as I already wrote to someone, in Ukraine suffered not only inhabitants of Ukraine! Those years in Ukraine in the city of Donetsk my Grandfather was born! His father was Russian and they too have strongly suffered!
Anahay777 3 years ago
Thats my opinion as well (I'm British though) - the USSR was not 'Russia'; many people had no choice but to go along with it all as many patriots had been killed in WWI and the White VS Red battles - criminals were freed from jails to be policemen and all richer/educated/aristocratic parts of society were murdered.. Russians and Ukranians are brothers with a shared history!
andy7666 3 years ago
i completely agree on what you said for Russians and Ukranians being brothers with a shared history. Ukranians have betrayed their slavanic roots and resulted into pushing themselves as far away from russia as possible. However, you noted on Jews running the USSR before WWII, however I was speaking of the USSR after WWII. After Stalin came into power, the high anti-semitism stepped into play and very little Jews remained in power.
RADILSYAVCCCR 3 years ago
Lazar Kaganovich remained in power under Stalin's rule and Yuri Andropov was Jewish too, in fact, but the latter hid his ethnic origins. Still, until 1949 even under Stalin the majority of the Party leadership were Jews. Nazis could just quote the list. They needed no propaganda. And remember Iljah Ehrenburg?
IustitiaPax 3 years ago 5
yea but they had limited political power, after WWII and Stalin's death they lost a lot of the power they had before the war.
RADILSYAVCCCR 3 years ago
@IustitiaPax Why not find out what happened to Kaganovich.
P1B1U1H1 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 Died in 1991 in Moscow in peace. With rich pension. After 1956 in Destalinization he was fired of course, as Lazar was a strict Stalinist.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Exactly. Also, note that four other persons were not Jewish, including Molotov, who negotiated the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact.
P1B1U1H1 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 Molotov was a successor to Maxim Litvinov, who was Soviet foreign minister until July 1939, and Jewish. Molotov was married to a Jewish lady though, who was a girlfriend of Golda Meir. Are you trying to deny these facts. Until 1948, the Stalin-Trotsky conflict did not divide Communism. In the USSR, the Communist Party had a large Jewish majority. Even in Holland, our party leader Saul de Groot was Jewish.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Litvinov was not responsible for the Ukraine famine. Molotov was NOT Jewish, as you just admitted; his wife is irrelevant. There were also three other guys, none of whom were Jewish, who were in charge. You can blame Jews for as much as you wish; this does not make Stalin or Beria Jewish. Trotsky, the prototypical Jew, was exiled before the famine. NO JEWS NOT IN THE USSR AT THE TIME CAN BE BLAMED FOR THE ACTS OF RUSSIANS, JEWISH OR OTHERWISE. Was Mao Tse Tung Jewish to you?
P1B1U1H1 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 1. Of course I do not blame non-Soviet Jews for the crimes of the Holodomor by Kaganovich and the OGPU. Although Jewish media cartells like the New York Times already in 1932 spread propaganda denying the Holodomor constantly. 2. Before the exile of Trotsky, already millions of civilians had been murdered and enslaved by the Bolshevik regime. 3. I never stated that all Soviet leaders were Jewish. Not at all, but Jews were disproportionately represented.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Those who want Jews facing a wall before bullets are put in their brains use terms like your orthographically interesting "Jewish media cartells".
P1B1U1H1 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 The Sulzberger family is not Jewish?
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 Your repulsive sacrilegious "laughing" about the Holodomor victims is hypocritical, given the reaction you would give on Holocaust revisionism.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 You are a paid activist from Yesha or Sheli? Molotov was part of the Soviet regime during the Holodomor, and organized grain export and the cover-up of the Holodomor to the Polish and Romanian governments. Kaganovich was Jewish. Yagoda was Jewish. Again, I am not blaming all Jews for Bolshevism. I would never oversimplify and blame the isolationist and ultra-orthodox Jews of Hungary or Transcarpathian Ruthenia for secular Marxist Jews' crimes.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 Please take back your calumnious statement, that I "wish to blame Jews". This is not the case. I just made a factual comment. I know Sheli, Yesha and the ADL all deny the Holodomor and want it denied and minimized. This is what Abe Foxman was in Kiev for in 2008. I even own a video of it. And Yoav Shamir thematized it in his Israeli documentary "Defamation". There are enormous lists of the Jewish regional leaders of the OGPU, NKVD. Or think of Lev Kamenev.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax The leadership of any government is small minority of the population. No one has ever blamed Georgians. Stalin and Beria were both from Georgia. Russia today (not including those breakaways): 141,927,297; Georgia today: 4,436,000 By this bigoted analysis, a population less than one thirtieth that of Russia killed 10,000,000 people. No, wait, it's 20,000,000. Oh, my gosh, it's up to 100,000,000 persons today.
P1B1U1H1 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 You deny the Holodomor, and you deny the Jewish involvement in the Bolshevik movement. You unmask yourself.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 Mao Tse Tung was not Jewish. But Mikhail Borodin (Mikhail Gruzenberg), the Comintern advisor to Sun Yat Sen and sponsor of the rise of Mao, was a Soviet Jew. Important Komintern agent until 1949, when he was purged by Kaganovich. Karl Radek (Karol Sobelsohn) of the Komintern criticized all non-Maoists in the 1920s, but he felt Republic of China was not yet ready for full revolution.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Sun Yat Sen is revered by both Chinas; it would follow, were Borodin responsible for Mao, he would also be responsible for one of the greatest Chinese political figures of the twentieth century (he was responsible for neither). Borodin was expelled from China in 1928. He served as deputy director of the Tass news agency and editor of the Moscow Daily News (1932 – 49). Stalin purged him as part of an effort to rid Russia of Jewish intellectuals.
P1B1U1H1 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 I told you, that the Komintern and the creation of the CPC was influenced determinantly by Jewish Communists. Borodin was never purged until 1949. This was during the anti-Zionist campaign of Soviet secret services. Not of Jewish intellectuals. But of "Trotskyists" and "Zionist spies". Kaganovich and other pro-Stalin Soviet Jewish notables lived on without any problems.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Seems like Stalin murdered an awful lot of Jews in high places. That axe in Trotsky's head appears to be philosemitism to you. Oh, what the heck, you won't be satisfied until you get to shoot every Jew on the planet. Why people are so interested in murdering others intrigues.
P1B1U1H1 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 Sorry for you dude. I would have to kill my Jewish Roman Catholic convert grandmother. I am not an antisemite. I am not. I just oppose your perversion of historical facts which causally preceded and supported HaShoah. Trotsky was killed by NKVD agent, informed of his presence by a Jewish pro-Stalinist Communist from Texas (USA). Not every time an internal Jewish feud or everything a Jew is killed, it is antisemitism. In 1940, most Jews still sided with Stalin, especially in Poland.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 Stalin was philosemitic always. He was always pro-Zionist, while also promoting assimilation of the religious Jews of the USSR territory into model Soviet citizens (without national identification, only with Soviet system). This worked: millions were assimilated, especially in the late 1940s. Stalin supported the creation of the State of Israel and by Czechoslovak arms supplies despite the embargo, helped Haganah and Israeli Army to win the Arab-Israeli War of 1947-48. Facts!
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Stalin became a well known Jew Hater. One need only look at the Doctor's Plot for confirmation. .
P1B1U1H1 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 The Doctors' Plot was exclusively an affair of Anti-Zionism. Mátyás Rosenfeld (Rákosi) of Hungary also enacted the same policy, himself a Jew. Marxist anti-Zionism is not antisemitism. Stalin was convinced that Jewish nationalism (Zionism) was bourgeois and a toy of American OSS and CIA. In some aspects he was right. A lot of Communist Jews supported Stalin on this. The Doctors' Plot was not a machination. You just repeat the Lavrentiy Beria version after Stalin's death by poison.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 Josif Stalin was not an antisemite. It is the version of history of Trotskyism and Zionism after Golda Meir, to claim Stalin was an antisemite. He was never, ever. His daughters married Jews, he married Sarah Kaganovich as his third wife in fact. Stalin was until the end of 1948 a convinced pro-Zionist, but by early 1949 started to become an Anti-Zionist. That is all. Of course many Trotskyists were Jews, because they had an international outlook.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 He was the first to give jews a homeland, even tho it failed during his last year it is today one of the odlest places where jews have had a self governed (autonomous) nation to live in, free from political bullshit found in Israel.
X97531X 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 Stalin became merely anti-Zionist by 1948 and 1949, when Israeli foreign policy alligned with the USA, while harbouring leading Trotskists too. As for Jewish stalinism. Our CPN (Communist Party of the Netherlands) was led by Saul de Groot. And other Jewish stalinists include: Harry Dexter White, Aleksandr Orlov/Felbing, Abraham Silverman etc. etc. You do not fool me.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 I think very unbiasedly by the way; my grandfather was a Communist (non-Jewish), my kind neighbour was a rich Amsterdam Jewish anti-communist, married to a Catholic lady who died recently. He even fled to Suriname in 1956 and already in 1938 warned Jews in Holland not to continue pro-Communist activities, but to promote emancipation in peace and harmony. Compared to Danes and Frisian and French neighbours, I am extremely philosemitic and considered "pro-Zionist" for some of my stances!
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 You chap do not understand, that the Calvinist cultural spheres never actively embraced antisemitism every. I may be Catholic, but I was influenced by this Calvinist view sociologically. That is why I defend Israeli citizens. Most European intellectuals at my university think like Helen Thomas that "Jews should go back to Poland, Russia and Germany from Palestine". I just tend to hate anti-historical Hollywood and DC myths on Jewish political history. I am not a fool, chap.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Could be. On the other hand, your posts's bearing so much falsehood, such as Borodin, makes one wonder.
P1B1U1H1 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 You cannot provide arguments against my statements of facts and my listing of Communist pro-Stalinist Jewish individuals, that you resort to name-calling. My posts bear no falsehood. yours do sadly enough.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Of course, Stalin and Beria were not Jewish. Moreover, Stalin really got to hate the Jews; he killed off Trotsky after all. Find out about the Doctor's plot.
P1B1U1H1 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 Nonsense. At the time of the Holodomor Lazar Kaganovich ruled, who was Jewish. Also the secret police OGPU was ruled by Henrikh Yagoda, also Jewish and controlled by Jewish officers (secular Jews of course). The conflict between Trotsky and Stalin was not on Jewish ancestry at all. This is all post-1953 rewriting of Soviet history by American Jewish historians, who sympathize with Trotskyism. Trotsky also murdered millions of civilians in the USSR until 1929.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Andropov was the son of a railway official Vladimir Konstantinovich Andropov, who was a member of a Don Cossack noble family.His mother was Yevgenia Karlovna Fleckenstein, a daughter of a wealthy Moscow businessman, German Karl Franzovich Fleckenstein, of Finland origin from Vyborg. Andropov is a name of Greek origin. Fleckenstein is a German habitational name from a lost place called Fleckenstein, in the Vosges mountains (Alsace).
P1B1U1H1 1 year ago
@P1B1U1H1 Yes, and Irving Berlin was named after Berlin. Andropov was of Jewish descent. Vyborg had Jews too. Baltic Jews.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
Putin Russia is implicated, because they still venerate Stalin as "The Greatest Russian Ever" (he was not even Russian) and because Russian children are told to love Stalin. Stalin was not even Russian, but Ossetian-Georgian. In Georgia (or in Gori) the schoolchildren are taught about Stalin's genocides and crimes, NOT about how great Stalin was. It seems the Russian government wants to glorify Stalin as father of the Russians? That is falsification. KGB strategy.
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
And so tell to me if the country was uniform so why we should answer only? Why not Georgians, not Kazakhs, not still somebody, namely we?
Anahay777 3 years ago
I think it is incorrect that the Russian people must "answer". I do not agree with Yushenko or NATO instrumentalization of the Holodomor. I know the Ukrainians were most numerous victims of this genocide, but it was a Communist genocide against Christians (incl. Ukrainians, but also some Russians and numerous Cossacks too).
Georgians and Kazahks were not in the government officially, and their modern governments do not defend Stalin anymore, like Putin Russia still does sadly enough.
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
By the way, if you do not know, already our parents learned, that Stalin was the vermin! In the USSR in 1956 have begun сносить all his monuments! There was only one in GORI!
Anahay777 3 years ago
De-Stalinization in the Soviet Union and Russia was reversed after 1998. Putin restored Stalin to honour. Stalin is again venerated by Russian Communists, sadly enough. Even by United Rossiya Party of Putin and Medvedev....
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
Well we shall tell that in Russia communists remained very little! Basically they are supported by old men (very few old men of them support), young for them does not vote! The communist party dies!
Anahay777 3 years ago
I really do not understand, why we do not have day of grief on victims during famine! But for this purpose as has told Medvedev, it is necessary to gather to all injured peoples and to make uniform day of mourning!
Anahay777 3 years ago
Holodomor should include Ukrainians (majority of victims), Cossacks, Russians and Kazachs. They were all targetted by the Bolshevists of Kaganovich. As to Marxism in Rossiya: the Communist Party of the Russian Federation has only 15 % voters, but Putin and Medvedev and all elite persons are from the KGB (FSB now). That is true, not? Was not KGB the international Marxist revolution's apparatus until recently? Is Putin a Marxist, or a national-Russian-marxist?
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
Ukraine and Russia are both terrible places to live in. I am happy here in United States. I gave up on both countries, because I feel no proudness having back ground from there. It is sad indeed, but what can we do? I am glad that I am half English. At least I have something to be proud of.
russianbadboy2 3 years ago
fuck u then
RussianBoxer84 3 years ago
Don't give me that attitude chap. In America you are allowed to express your opinion as well as in Russia and Ukraine. I said nothing about the country being bad; however, the economy is very unstable. Although America's economy is doing terrible too, Russian and Ukrainian well-being is sinking down the drain. A citizen has a chance to have a better life here in United States. Ask yourself, why do people move to US? To have a better life mate...
russianbadboy2 3 years ago
Yes, on the account of KGB you are right! But in Putin I personally from marxist I do not see anything! The marxism is in fact idea of general equality! All authority to working class! Now in Russia absolutely on another! The poor class has remained. The middle class started to appear! At last for 70 years the freedom of speech has appeared!
Anahay777 3 years ago
Know, I do not support Putin's policy(politics) inside the country! But problems inside the country it is our problems! And you for certain with me agree. And here I completely support foreign policy of our president! And you can criticize me for it)
Anahay777 3 years ago
By the way, at me the question has appeared. Why you have taken that Putin прекрывает Stalin's politics! It on the contrary criticizes he. Compares Saakashvily to Stalin! It can to you so present, but at us in the country, once again I speak, Stalin - one of the main enemies of people!!!!
Anahay777 3 years ago
Where and when did KGB-officer Vladimir Putin call Stalin an "enemy of the people"? Where did he criticize Stalin? Never. Never a criticism of Yagoda or Drzhezinsky (KGB founder)? Never. Despite millions of murders in GULAG etc.
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
Watch not only Poland TV. Today in St. Petersburg he critisised Stalin for famine. So shut up about "when did he criticize". Open your eyes and watch some other channels, not only Polish.
igorvasilevsky 3 years ago
I am not from Poland, I am from Holland. I do not even understand most of Polish tv. I would like reference, content, date and hour when Vladimir Putin (KGB) criticized Stalin. Of course a minor criticism of Stalin, like the criminal Marxist Mr Nikita Chrusev gave in 1955 and 1959, do not suffice. When did Vladimir Putin officially condemn Soviet atrocities and Stalin's rule? And Marxism? In 2005 Putin said he laments the demise of the Soviet Union, and that he wants it restored for Russia..!
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
If to you do not show, it does not mean that it is not present! At us show on the TV, write in newspapers! Can to you do not show, what you badly would think of us? That most likely! To us in fact too quite often about you badly speak.
Anahay777 3 years ago
I just want a source. Given me a source. It is not reported by RIANovosti or Pravda. Instead, I constantly see Stalin Memorials restored, which were demolished under Nikita Khruchev. I do not think bad about Russians, I just oppose Marxism-Leninism and Soviet atrocities. The Soviet "glory" was not moral glory of the Russian nation. Solzhenytsin was, Soloviev was, St. Vladimir was.
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
As soon as I shall find something, I shall necessarily send you!
Anahay777 3 years ago
Putin participated in a memorial day, see Kommersant of 31/10/2007 (archives on the site). And he gave this attitude: "tragedies of this kind happened repeatedly in the history of mankind when they tried to put some idea above the principal values — human life, rights and freedoms of a person".
Putin never said he wants SSSR restored, even if he did say that the end of it was a "major geopolitical catastrophe". In the next part of that speach he talked of Russias sharing european values;)
ika6toze 3 years ago
Putin said that people who do not want to restore the Soviet Union, do not have hearts. But that it is not possible in the present economic world system (yet). I am not anti-Putin per se, you know. I know certain Western leaders are untrustworthy too and internationalists. Like the Marxists of Soviet Union.
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
Actually, I think that this quotation goes like this: "Those, who do not miss CCCP, do not have a heart. And those who want it back, do not have a brain".
I am not sure that Putin is the author of this one, maybe he only repeated it.
ika6toze 3 years ago
I know, but I meant another quote. The KGB-FSB wants a new Russian-nationalist and semi-socialist (they are already nationalizing industries - like Obama in the US, see reports by Pat Buchanan paleocons) system. The old Soviet system was bankrupt and not efficient. They know this. People no longer believed that system. But did Putin really abjure materialism, Marxist atheism? Why is abortion so high in Russia still! With a shrinking population! Still allowed! Such a shame. Not in PL even!
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
Instead of as makes the government of Ukraine! But to us that should be clear, that it is made for the sake of NATO and the European Community!
Anahay777 3 years ago
Sirs, here at the some people logic such: " everything perished for famine, but famine has been all the same directed against inhabitants of Ukraine! Well this idiocy! If Stalin was not the Georgian, Georgians too would start talking about HOLODOMOR)))
Anahay777 3 years ago 2
Stalin was Georgian and Southern Ossetian. This is proven. And his adoptive spiritual father was a Jewish merchant, who brought him from the Russian Orthodox and Georgian Orthodox seminaries into contact with the Marxist parties' revolutionaries, who all destroyed the Russian Empire and true Russian culture. And Ukrainian culture in the Holodomor by Lazar Kaganovich.
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
His father Beso Dzhugashvili and mother Kaka Geladze, have completely the Georgian names and were citizens of Georgia! He was born in Georgian city Gori! Where you have read, what he the Osset? He in Russian plainly did not talk))))
Anahay777 3 years ago
WHAT Americans about голодоморе can know? The Russian historians have correspondences and Stalin's documentation! Famine has concerned all grain countries (Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan)
ManDaR1N899 3 years ago 2
Idiots. Stalin was the Georgian:) (Stalin is a nickname) Stalin had surname Dzhugashvili!
ManDaR1N899 3 years ago
Сьогоднішний Кремл - одна велика брехня!
Втим і його керівники - Путін і Медведев!
Kobzatoronto 3 years ago
Kharkiv statement in original:
"Голод на Україні був викликаний для того, щоб зменшити кількість українців, пересилити на їхнє місце людей з іншої частини СРСР і цим убити будь-яку думку про самостійність."
Комуніст Прокопенко, ....
Kobzatoronto 3 years ago
продовження
,,, Прокопенко, уповноважений Сахновщинського районного виконавчого комітету (Харківської області) проговорився про голод перед групою колгоспників 12 травня 1934 р.
- V. Danilov et al., Sovetskaia derevnia glazami OGPU_NKVD. T. 3, kn.2. Moscow 2004. P.572
Kobzatoronto 3 years ago
igor..
Have a look at youtube:
Holodomor 1933
By one of the Russian propaganda channels.
You can't lie the truth away.
Kobzatoronto 3 years ago
Funny how some people (mostly from USA) have known about Holodomor just few hours ago, and thought that they are historical experts )) This is really crazy.
igorvasilevsky 3 years ago
Shame on you. Life will punish you, very hard
AlexRussman 3 years ago 2
Wow! The horrible effects of socialism/communism. And we in the US just elected a socialist president, a socialist democratic congress. The genocide of abortion has already murdered 45 million in US alone since 1973. All governments ultimately end in committing genocide against people. The governments of the world are the beast spoken of in the Book of Revelations.
fredphellipssdriver 3 years ago
You sound crazier than Igor Vasilevsky. I'm ashamed to share a country, even a planet, with the likes of you.
specultr 3 years ago
Facts and arguments are always uncomfortable for Americans. No surprise. The funniest thing that such persons like you always think that their opinion is ONLY ONE TRUE. Naive morons.
igorvasilevsky 3 years ago 3
How can president with 3% rating can represent Ukrainian nation? LOL
I know many Ukrainians and ALL THEM are against this lie about "genocide", like all historicans (Russians, Ukrainians, foreign).
Another moment of Ushenko's policy is glorification of fascists. So it's not surprise, that this liar accuse Russia now. He is criminal puppet.
igorvasilevsky 3 years ago
Russia many time ago recognize this famine as criminal action against Soviet people
BUT NOT ONLY AGAINST UKRAINIANS. How fuckin' stupid people can't understand it? No one argue that is was horrible action of Stalin regime. But ALL FACTS denied the "genocide" of Ukrainians. This is political moment of USA and their puppets (Ushenko never said about millions of deaths in Russia and Kazakhstan, you know why). And as history say, Ukrainians local authorities response on deaths of Ukrainians.
igorvasilevsky 3 years ago 2
The Soviet famines and Holodomor were used by Lazar Mosesovich Kaganovich (d. 1991) and Genrikh Yagoda (d. 1938) and Joseph Stalin to reduce the numbers of anti-communist conservative and Christian farmers, mostly among the Ukrainian people, but also among cossacks and ethnic Russians. It was a Political Genocide. Stalin was a tyrant and murderer, and NKVD cooperated. Russia should admit this. Ukraine should stop alleging it was Russians who planned the H. Kaganovich was no Russian, nor Yagoda.
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
Holodomor is a fact. But modern Ukraine may not abuse the Genocide against Ukrainians (and Russian conservative farmers and kulaks and Christian Cossacks), in its battle with Putin Russia. It was Kaganovich and Bolshevists who caused the Genocide and planned it. Not the Russian people. The Russian people were victims too, although far less than the Ukrainian SSR's inhabitants.
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
I think that the newly emerged Cossack organizations in the Kuban and the Don should bring up the holodomor issue that tok place on their lands as well. There could be many songs written composed and sung by the Kuban Cossack Chorus for example dealing with the holodomor etc...
MiddletownDreamz 3 years ago
stalin is georgian , they should accuse georgia for that hahhaa
7nevski7 3 years ago 3
Stalin was a South Ossete. He was Ossetian. Ossetians are pro-Russian, and Russia's allies? Not. Stalin is from Dzhinvali.
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
Stalin was born not in Tskhinvali, and in Gori! So thrust the false propagation to itself in...!
Anahay777 3 years ago
If do not trust, can look in Google a planet the Earth! There in city centre Gori there is a monument to Stalin! Tell that you simply hate Russian!
Anahay777 3 years ago
Who ever is responsible for the famine, they are monsters.
I blame the Worlds richest families, the Oligarchy, the Banksters. They caused the market crashes and the World Wars. Every last one of them should have been rounded up, thrown in jail and put on trial.
We should not show any mercy to these same families today because their inheritors are causing a repeat of those dark days of the past.
minstral2 3 years ago
Stalin was an evil Red (neck) from Georgia
ebonics4everyone 3 years ago 2
It was Stalin and his pals diabolic plan. It effected whole USSR and hit Ukraine hardest (because of biggest % of farmers). I think they didnt target Ukraine people because of some master plan to wipe them. They simply targeted farmers. Russia had larger urban population so they were less affected.
So it was genocide against farmers of USSR.
I think that is what Russia need to say. Nothing more.
ReliktBG 3 years ago
Russia under the current KGB leadership will not admit "great" Stalin's reputation to be tainted. It was the NKVD (pre-KGB) which helped in creating the Holodomor and the Genocide against the cossacks, Ukrainians, Christian Russian kulaks and other "enemies of the people" (of the Marxist system).
IustitiaPax 3 years ago
many happy returns of this day, ukrainian
zheka74 3 years ago
Ass for the hate against russians, i think it would help if russia recognized this as a genocide. it is true, it's not vova's or medveedev's fault this had happened, it was stalin who's mother was georgian, and his close comrades, but then why won't russia recognize this as genocide? why do they so strongly protest against it? the answer is simple, they feel guilty about it. i think if russians finally want to live as brothers, the first step should be to support holodomor.
shevadabest11 3 years ago
Because it wasn't a genocide. End of.
SlavaRossii1945 3 years ago
Why is there no holodomor memorial to commemorate the millions who died among the Don Cossacks, Kuban Cossacks and farmers of southern Russia, Lower Volga and central chornozem? Why doesn't the Russian government have similar memorials instead of victory day parades every May? The same for Kazakhstan. Many died in the Kazakh famine yet what has the post-soviet Kazakh government done to commemorate their famine?
MiddletownDreamz 3 years ago 3
That's a completely different story. in those cases there was poor harvest, and no food.
In ukraine, the soldiers would walk out on the fields and burn crops, walk in the house and take away all the food, this wasn't a poor harvest, this was more like stealing food from starving families and then claiming it was poor harvest.
Anyway, that's what i heard, but if it's just another cummunist propaganda, if it was genocide in volga, don and kuban region, then they should too recognize genocide.
shevadabest11 3 years ago
Actually in the Don and Kuban the grain requisitions were the same as in Ukraine with high quotas. In Kuban the procuremnts were harsher than in Ukraine. In Conquest's Book "Harvest of Sorrow" there is a chapter on Kuban where he quotes eyewitnesses seeing whole Cossack stanitsas in rebellion and where red Army forces were sent in with tanks, personnel carriers and even artillery. In various places peasants and cossacks were engaged in uprisings and acts of violence against soviet authorities.
MiddletownDreamz 3 years ago
as ukrainians, we should be ashamed of ourselves. Even though many countries have recognized holodomor as genocide against ukrainians, i have read in ukrainian newspaper two weeks ago, that the ukrainian politicians are still arguing whether it should be recognized as genocide!!! Especially the communist party and regionals, if we have such politicians, then i am afraid for my country and its future.
shevadabest11 3 years ago
Uschenko is just another zionist and inciting national strife to russians is meaning of his life. Wake up people!!! We should live in friendship and respect each other.
alex2kk 3 years ago
трагедия Украины в том что у нас до власти
дорвалась жлобов отморозков -
ющара со своей бандой
которые сначала ограбили нас гиперинфляциями
а теперь они же пытаются втянуть нашу нейтральную страну
в войну с братским русским народом ?
777Simsalabim 3 years ago
Украина и Россия на веки вместе!!!!!!!!
Anahay777 3 years ago 2
as long as russians stop calling us little brothers and ukraine - malarossia and treat us as equals, yeah sure, russia and ukraine together forever!
shevadabest11