Clay Shirky: Institutions vs. collaboration

[cruxcatalyst]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, CAN EVERYONE IN GOVERNMENT PLEASE WATCH THIS!!?

[KaiTendo174]

@cruxcatalyst They are aware of everything - they are too ball-less to admit it, and to look the people in the fucking eye.

[shrunkensimon]

Saw the SOPA/PIPA video by this man today, found this video afterwards. This is exactly why the internet is so great :)

[mkdelta69]

Looking at it another way ......... the way we value the effort of the top twenty is reduced because the cost of collaborative structure is so low ......... that it's changing the economic structure we have now ......... the present structure makes less and less sense ..........

[ImThinkin11]

Down with groups-up with individuals, always.

We need more Thomas Jeffersons, n'est-ce pas?

[gusphraba]

Didn't the Psycho Milt example show that the single contributions almost always lack value and quality? The Linux example was only hypothetical. Probably all useful contributions come from people who contribue regularly for at least three reasons: 1. They build up respect in the group and want to improve their level of work quality. 2. The more you do it, the better you get. 3. If you only peek in for the moment, you don't get the bigger picture, so your work will only please you.

[ImThinkin11]

@gusphraba He's got that fashionable "scruffy socialist" look I've come to know and distrust so much..

[rocaho001]

@ImThinkin11 you're a socialist and are saying this to provide yourself cover

[ImThinkin11]

@rocaho001 Don't be silly.

[abaex]

@gusphraba And maybe someone else too - just because not everyone needs something doesn't mean that if just one programs something for himself isn't needed from someone else too which can't program in fact that person which can't program won't have a solution EVER because no big group of people needs what he needs~ (I'm thinking about wordpress plugins right now)

[simonbour]

an all time TED classic!

[ajsa25]

Isnt that longtail on iraq photos?

[hoplahey]

I had to stop viewing after 3 mins due to his awfully loud nose breathing sounds. My problem, I know.

[blacksummersound]

its his microphone... too much audio compression, so no matter how low the level... it gets sucked in and amplified.

[savagecabage]

how dare he...

[jclail]

I think this foreshadowed the election of Obama, someone who gets the power of collaborative infrastructure systems

[MarkProffitt]

Collaboration was what happened with Ron Paul breaking the single day fund raising records twice. The idea, organizing, work and then donations was done by individuals with nothing happening from the central Ron Paul campaign.

Obama was and is heavily institutionalize, top down. Obama is very command and control oriented. Some people might work for free but all their actions are passed down from a central authority.

[simonbour]

this guy looks like tom hanks but bold

[savagecabage]

you took the words right out of my mouth!.. or comment... whatever

[Angloth]

interesting shit.

[megamarsvin]

So.. Tagging makes stuff easier to find.. Good talk that -_-'

[xxlimpyleg]

damb spammers.

[jeremmorrow]

Always satisfying.

[atypicalguy]

this could be a political model for the next generation

[quicksite]

((atypicalguy

this could be a political model for the next generation))

( secession101 - Reply Marked as spam

You can bet on it. )

Why in world was that marked as spam? perhaps accidental.

I was very active in the Dean campaign. 4 years later, though Obama campaign has extracted the very best practices & improved upon them, STILL, the bulk of online political interaction is typing text on a screen, no different than back in 1980's when L.A. had BBS systems linked to internet, pre-web.

[secession101]

We're supposed to be getting good at being aware of situations and solving problems in groups. Institutions do it because they get paid money to do it. People do it on their own because they get paid with attention, knowledge or fun while potentially solving hard problems that institutions ignore.

[theimperfektman]

i've been thinking this for years. true socialism :) through mutually beneficial cooperation. i see a bright future in 50 years.. or mass chaos

[quicksite]

Since the Dean campaign, I've worked in a variety of group configurations. Form an entity, network, collective, association, coalition. The truest thing I have determined after 20 years of progressive activism: Collaboration is often foiled because any form of coordination is feared as somehow a threat to the autonomy of one org vs another. Funding turf wars also lead to absurd non-coordination. MoveOn won't work with DFA, and DFA won't work w/ MoveOn. Recipes for serial-failures.

[quicksite]

(2) ... Many experiments in collaboration have failed, or were severely compromised, because no one wants their "brand" tucked up under some coordinating body, no matter how temporary or for what purpose. thus, i've evolved my own practical models for citizen coordination that crosses organizational boundaries. the web enables this fluidity... so people can still participate in their orgs, & they can also participate in individual or multi-entity driven cross-organizational projects focused on

[quicksite]

(3) very specific objectives -- for example -- an economic boycott of Disney-produced entertainment due to that conglomerate's development & ballsy promotion of the phony docudrama "Path to 9/11" which aired despite little pockets of resistance at places like DailyKos & AmericaBlog.

Separate from that discussion, my interests have shifted away from electoral politics, toward what I loosely call "Para-government" -- bypassing official govt completely, focusing on influencing citizens directly.

[wetalmorker]

Thanks to compelled2283 for sharing.

I wish I could sum up my feelings on this to a paragraph, but I can't.

I think this collaborative sharing phenomenon is wonderful. But, I also think it is "the revealing", long foretold... Many will see, few will understand. All of Humanity is a single organism.  If we fail to recognize this, individually, we shall perish.

Just my two cents worth...

[theimperfektman]

you should watch a few other vids on this type of thing: Kevin Kelly and Boahen. also check out greentech/John Doerr. let me know how it goes!

[docwarwick]

Fascinating (the vid)!

[ki6eki]

IM PSYCHO MILT

[lolwtfomfglol]

we are all psycho milt

[savagecabage]

IM PSYCHO MILT AND SO IS MY WIFE

[apophades2]

just applying the pareto principle.

[sexdrugsRnR]

screw socialists!!

[quicksite]

I love this whole premise. And have been working on a collaboration system for cross-organization coordinated actions.

[theimperfektman]

to me the ratios show that laziness/inability are at the heart of the human condition. inability is situational while lethargy can spring from deafeat/lack of motivation. this is the key problem in socialism: motivation and ability. some feel that socialism takes away and gives to all, whne the truth is if you put in you should receive. it's giftgiving! money has to be out of the equation. i hate money myself but that's situational. motivation and ability are so much more pure. my best wishes!!

[truefictions]

Science loves Liberty.

Peace

[eladbari]

i liked this one :]

a change will be coming...

[chikotube]

first we have to get old established organizations and institutions to wake up and listen and actually consider the value! A deeply impeding issue i deal with frequently.

[SpinergyDude]

So far it seems possible. :) I started a group here... And, using nothing more than videos to post in it, some text topic. As people find it who widsh to join it, will be growing the the network... I have found the means to make use of the people like me who do not contribute a zillion things to YouTube, but whjat they do add is PRICELESS.

And, it is this that I am glad to see someone else realizes is possible all thanks to the digital tools we take for granted.

Spinergy

[secession101]

Growing a network is always good, because multiplies the brain power on any topic--being in the network helps you get the questions out to the experts and from there, the answers and ideas just begin to flow.

They just didn't know how powerful the Internet was going to make humanity when they invented it, they were just trying to make a system that would survive a nuclear war.

We only have to reach out and grab the WIN.

[SpinergyDude]

YAY! Finally someone talking about this. :)

[lordofendsville]

Well, good questions, but in the end a long way of saying essentially nothing. I had the question about value of the information by a group, in this case amateurization, but he couldn't decide wether it was a positive or a negative influence. That's great. .

[theiamania]

lordofendsville

Part 1

To answer you question of what we are supposed to get better at:

Since you were a child you have worked and lived in institutionalized working environments and thereby also learned to form such environments - your family, your school, the local football club, your first couple of jobs, have all been structured this way, and that has made you good at them, even though most seem to take it for granted that that's the way the world works.

[theiamania]

part 2

But that will be different in the future. Because the kids of today are growing up with collaborative working groups when they play online, when they share information or when they just work together in new ways to avoid doing there homework on there own. And let me give you an example of a collaborative work group and the power of it which is not happening online. In Europe there is an organisation called EASA (European architect student assembly). It has no president or any kind of

[theiamania]

Part 3

leaders and its average membership last less than a month. It has no office, and not even a webpage. There are no one that earns on being in it or run it, but even though all that, then this organisation manages to hold a 14 day summer school every year for almost 20 years now, that gathers more than 400 students from between 30 and 40 different countries. And every year it happens in a new country, with a new theme, and new workshops.

[theiamania]

Part 4

And that's not even all. This organisation also manages to hold a gathering for 80 - 100 people two times more during the year. All with a budget of $0. That is the magic of collaboration. But it is not something you were born to know how to do. You have to learn it by doing it

[lordofendsville]

So my question is by getting better at , well, amateurization or collaborative models, what in the hell are we supposed to be getting good at and in what context? Business? Information gathering? Or are the possibilities endless and unfocused?

Spinergydude, help a brother out

[SpinergyDude]

The possibilities are endless and have no focus you are 100% correct.

For example I am attempting to create a news network from the outside in. With ZERO money.

Using nothing but tools online I am slowly building it. No donations, no money needed.

So in the end my news site will provide people with disabilities information, be able to allow them to freely report news no need to have me preview and edit things first, and reach more people at no extra cost to them.

Will this work?

[Paulginz]

SpinergyDude.

I don't think your system will work.

I don't know how your infrastructure works, but if it doesn't have a competitive advantage on wikinews+the blogosphere+wikileaks, it is doomed.

To give an example, wikileaks tried a cooperative system to verify the veracity of leaked documents and whistleblower accusations. It didn't work because people have little incentive to pour over pages of pure boredom that might even be totally useless or false. So they institutionalised that part.

[SpinergyDude]

I can agree to a point with this. Pages of boredom will fail. That is why 98% of working aged Americans will be taken adavantage of. They refuse to read some of those pages of boredome. Sadly the medical insurance industry knows this of people...

That equals people being abused all due to them not knowing some boring information they have around them 24/7 for free to access.

Knowledge is only POWER when the people who it is meant for can relate to it, and grasp it.

I translate it.

[Paulginz]

You take the time to translate it and that's really nice of you. I was just saying you shouldn't expect truckloads of spontaneous help with that part.

To be honest, if someone were to read every license agreement of everything they use, (or even just software) it would probably take a year out of their life if not more.

It isn't just a question of laziness or translation, sometimes the time is worth more than the risk.

I'm curious. Can you message me an URL?