No but just because it happened does not mean there is some God watching over them. What about the babies in Somalia? Will god help them from the rebels ravaging their homes and killing them and their family? Probably not because there is no god. Shit just happens.
What objective standard are you appealing to when you imply that killing babies is a bad thing? The presence of evil doesn't mean God isn't there. Free will was given to all of us, else our love for God wouldn't be love at all. So yeah, shit does happen.
People say god knows all. Why give free will when you know the choice someone is going to make? And god made evil. So god can also BE evil. But there is no god. You are living out of your mind bro. You are also hurting this earth and assisting in murder. But you do not see it because you are just a sheep.
Dodge the question if you must, but your unsubstantiated claim that evil exists is quite arbitrary, so nobody has reason to think that what you say on the matter is true.
Just because He knows what is going to happen, doesn't mean He controls our actions. Evil was a result of His willingness to let us choose. If you want to make God responsible, be my guest.
I like it how people act like they know gods exact plan. You do not know shit. And if you cannot see how you are helping people suffer and die in this world then you never will. You need to find out like I did. On my own. No one lead me. I questioned and looked deeper.
I have a general idea of His character because of the testimonies of men that lived and walked with Jesus Christ. Supernatural claims were made about Christ and they died for those beliefs. I find it hard to believe that they died for a lie.
Unless you can tell me what it is I do that endangers others (I don't see what I've implied in my comments thus far), then I have reason to believe you just want to toss ad hominem attacks my way just for believing in a deity.
Any supernatural claim needs proof. Valid and reasonable proof. Someones testimony is not enough. And like I said I will not tell you anything. No one told me anything. I broke myself out of the god delusion my parents tried to place on me and looked at the world as it is. And its not just you. If you live in America like me its all of Americans. And believe what you want. But until you bring proof its just fiction. I doubt it will ever be fact.
Firstly, what is your standard of proof? Empirical evidence? That presupposes that our senses are the only arbiters of reality (heck, someone on acid could be experiencing reality) and you make a categorical error in saying supernatural claims need proof/evidence in a naturalistic sense of the word. Can you prove that logic, truth, and reality are... real? These are axioms we adhere to, and simply saying that we just know they're real is begging the question.
Allow me to clarify my statement of the "categorical error". Tell me why it logically follows that I must show you empirical evidence of the supernatural. If I were to do such a thing, you would attempt to explain it away naturalistically; it gets us nowhere.
Nevertheless, my justification in the belief in God is the historical evidence that surrounds Jesus Christ's life, death, and resurrection. And yes, there are extrabiblical documents on the matter.
Documents are not enough evidence. Also empirical is to broad range. I want just experimental evidence. Like throwing a virgin who has done nothing but good and preach the word of god off a roof. And you cannot explain away hardcore experimental evidence. And Jesus is not real either. I am done with this. You are obviously caught deep in the delusion. When you die you will see.
We have more historical evidence for Jesus Christ than we do for Julius Caesar.
Someone who parades around with an elitist attitude calling theists delusional doesn't see the irony.
And since you're done, I'll throw in a rhetorical question: Can you show me experimental evidence that our senses are real? Using our senses to justify our senses would simply be circular reasoning.
We do not have historical evidence for the Jesus Christ of the bible like we do Julius Caesar. This is 100% absolute bullshit, show me where you got this from, how you got this, and why it is a reasonable statement. Please. I have never heard something so stupid in my life. No where in the world except for the bible do we hear of a man who walks on water. Give me a break.
So you are saying that you would kill babies if not for your fear of god?
My reason for believing that killing babies is wrong is because it is not beneficial to our species, our evolutionary benefit is that our children are the furthering of our species, without reproduction our species would fail. So we trained through evolution to protect our kin, plus I think killing of any nature is distasteful. I certainly didn't use your god as a moral standard, he's a murderer.
Quite a number of replies, so let me see if I can get to them in.
I never said that you need to believe in a deity to have morals. Without an objective standard, you have no justification for using morals. Your definition of morality is counter-intuitive, if not, self refuting. It basically comes down to being selfish. "I can't have the things I want without others living." So if one wants to keep on killing, then they need to keep the species alive and let some individuals live.
God created life, and has the the right and His reasons to take it away. Just because He doesn't fit in your little box of what He should do to be good (you have questionable morals as it is because it comes down to survival/selfishness), doesn't mean He isn't.
To be intellectually honest here, I meant Tiberius Julius Caesar. He was Roman emperor during Christ's time.
I just got finished explaining to the other kid why I hold to the belief of the Christian God. Historical evidence supports the existence of Christ, and the circumstantial evidence suggests that He did rise from the dead. A dying Messiah would not have been the best lie to purport. Are you telling me 500+ witnesses went insane and saw the exact same thing? That's highly improbable.
You think because God created life he has the right to do what he wants with it?!?!
Okay so let me get this straight, by these circumstances my parents have the right to kill me when they feel like it correct?
And where are these 500+ witnesses spoke about? Only in the bible? Where are their published accounts and what evidence do you have for the following? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
How is my moral reasoning self refuting? We are bred through evolution by the means of tribes and groups to help one another for the benefit of the whole. How is this counter-intuitive? I don't understand how what I'm saying is any way not getting through to you. We started as small tribes, to not help others would be detrimental to the whole of society, if we all lived for ourselves we would have gone extinct a long time ago.
Your parents did not create your mind [I'm not referring to the brain, rather the sentience/consciousness that is you 24/7]
Just because texts are canonized as scripture does not preclude their historical authenticity, that is a genetic fallacy. Try looking up Philo, Tacitus, Polycarp, Irenaeous, Josephus, or Senca. Some of these are secular sources.
Your whole premise for morality is selfishness: "I can't get what I want if I can't survive."
What is more selfish than "I'm going to be good because god is making me, and if I'm not good I won't get into the magical afterlife so I can live forever!"
I do good things even when I know it's all for nothing in the end when we die, but still I strive to help others because I CARE. I don't do it for some promised treasures in some made up fantasy world. I know everyone is going to die and be forgotten eventually but hey I still help people.
You have an ignorance for Christian theology. Christians believe that you can do nothing of yourself to earn a spot in heaven. Christ only.
It's funny to me that you espouse a view of objective morality, but you believe they came about subjectively. I'd suggest you rethink your stance a bit.
The brain does come about in a natural way, but the material (and many immaterial absolutes) are upheld together by something constantly.
Free will. I mentioned it in a previous comment to the other guy.
It's not that simple. There is, of course, forgiveness of sin, but simply proclaiming Christ and living it up like a madman puts that faith into question. The seed of faith produces good fruit. Only God knows where you truly stand. Scripture says even the demons believe in Christ, so no, simply acknowledging His work on the cross doesn't save you. I implore you, don't make radical assumptions about a belief you have little understanding of.
So you do have to do works, you have to beg for forgiveness. You are making excuses for something you yourself have no concept of how it works because it is full of contradictions, I wouldn't expect it to make sense...
Works do not determine salvation, repentance is a work of God because it is the Holy Spirit that is knocking on the door of your heart.
Atheists adhere to contradicting views: it is a lack of belief in God, a belief there is no God, the default position, not a position at all, an approach to theistic claims, whatever you make it to be, nothing in and of itself (contradictory in that statement alone), the truth (although it can't be proven), freedom etc. The list goes on.
Okay the truth is, you can have anyway you want to get into your heaven that's not what I care to even discuss here. I asked you how you know that Thor did not revived the mom on her baby and that it was in fact the god of the bible.
Let me say this one more time for you: I said there is historical evidence for the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The men who knew Christ firsthand attested to this, claiming Him God in the flesh. Now, what was their view on God? There is only one God, and He is eternal; none before and none after.
Okay, you can say all day there is only one god, he is this he is that. But how can you show this to me. If I told you the flying spaghetti monster was the only god no matter what, I wouldn't expect you to just accept it? You still have not even told me what this historical evidence is for the resurrection of Christ is? Of course the Bible says it, it also says Jonah lived in the belly of a whale for 3 days.
Yes, there's also a talking serpent, talking donkey, a period of time the Earth stopped rotating, people surviving in a fire unscathed, and the number of things Jesus did. With a naturalistic mindset, I wouldn't expect you to believe in supernatural occurrences. And even if you experienced anything of the like, you would attempt to explain it away by natural means. I understand your position more than you do, how sad is that?
Seems you are dodging my question once again. You said there is evidence of the resurrection, where is this evidence. You dance around every comment with some other attack on my stance when you don't even possess the rudimentary abilities to reason.
You are insulting me for not believing there is a talking snake that is mentioned in an old book? Are you really going to say that makes me an unreasonable person? Sorry that I care about whats true, I don't follow everything blindly.
So when something that seems supernatural or even natural everyday occurrences happen you cut to the conclusion that it was some kind of divine intervention or spiritual action. And you insult me for finding a natural explanation for a natural occurrence. What have we ever benefited from evoking the supernatural to answer all our questions? We would still be living in the dark ages.
You're not a child, do the research, read, watch vids on the matter.
Here's the problem: you posit that anything can be experienced, regardless if it goes against what we know about physical/natural laws is what occurs naturally. We would then have to surmise that the presupposition for science (the uniformity of nature) is bunk and all prior knowledge of the universe cannot be used to make predictions, i.e. science isn't possible.
I'm in the midst of reconsidering my stance on a young Earth.
So when you are born your brain does not form through natural means? Every brain is made up on the spot by god? If this is true then god made up everyone's mind which is a product of the brain, and causes people to be brain dead, develop autism and become serial killers.
Can someone please prove that god and ONLY god, and not the Flying Spaghetti Monster or an invisible pink unicorn was responsible for these 2 coming back from the dead.
regardless of anyone saying it was God or not, if they had cardiac arrest that means their heart stopped beating and they died. And medical attention at all was resurrected. So believe what you want.
Did everyone walk away and leave them to die or were medical personnel actively trying to save them? Did everyone stop trying to save them and only pray? So the trained professionals used proven techniques to save lives, post heart attack. Yep only explanation is god helped. Really? This is your proof?
Sorry not buying that. But I do have some ocean front property in Arizona for sale if you are interested.
So they wheeled her out of the room and left her aside and provided no further attempts to bring the mother back after her heart stopped?
The answer is of course no. They continued to try to save her and holy shit! Look they did. Praise god the people trained by humans to do a job, did the job and got the result of yeras of study and practice.
So I ask you, is god, the only possible explanation for this outcome? If so, what proof is there that your god and no an invisible pink unicorn or the flying spaghetti monster was in fact the cause.
drealist78 humans are not a virus and there is a god every religion believes in a god buddahist believe in buddah thats there god and YZtwostrokin im not against u im not on anyones side but its truth dat the americans infected the native americans with small pox just to let you know and christains commited crimes not just muslims every religion commited crimes and in the bible jesus died for our crimes/mistakes/sins.
YZtwostrokin your wrong about muslims killing there and other people. some muslims do of course but every religion kill there own and other people look how many murder stories are there on the news and look how many of them r christians im not bagging on any christians but im just saying muslims aren't bad people and muslims are one of the first religion and im not muslim im orthodox dats one of the first christianaty there is also and Drealist87 not all americans are bad and no god is weak.
I was just saying that's one of their punishments, not that they just go around killing each other. Between the different factions of Islam there is war. A few hundred years ago there was war between the different factions of christianity. I know Muslims are generally good people but that doesn't change the fact they have brutal punishments
miracle? Did Gawd bring her back to life or did the medical professionals do their job? Thank Jebus those professionals were successful, but this is not a miracle.
Why do all you Atheist go around behaving like children and insulting any thing and anyone you come across who believes in God? There is no valid reason to do that.
Second, I would love to know more on this medical advancement you speak of that suddenly brings two separate people back to life at the same time with out medical explanation as to how or why. Where was this amazing device used in this situation?
I do it because you God belivers do not realize that they are not living in the current state of reality and are actually harming the world by just praying and not taking action to fix the problems of the world
And I do not know what was used but it definitely would not have been possible for them to be alive if they were not in the hospital. If people claim its a miracle when there is another person near death throw them out the hospital. Let some people pray and see what happens.
For someone who is on a mission to destroy other people's faith, or at least spend a lot of energy talking crap to them, you clearly know very little about Christianity. God is far more intelligent than you r capable of being, when did u learn everything about everything and know how to fix everything thus being a good source of criticism of what God does?
Intelligent? No. Disgusting and worthless. Yes. Your god is not real. You have no talked to god. And you damn sure as hell did not give him an I.Q test.
You have a very clear underlying emotional issue relating to this subject matter, or at least coming out in it. You say we are crazy for believing in God, I submit it is crazy not to. You mean to tell me that the entire universe, intelligent life, all the things in it, as perfectly in sync and setup as they are, is bc of random accident. Do you know the Odds of that? U can't fathom that number. Where did everything come from, why is it here? Nobody can prove he doesn't exist either.
No one can prove because there is nothing to test. Also do you believe in Zeus, Athena? And you have some emotional issue that causes you to find peace in something you cannot even comprehend or understand. That is weak and very scary. And again. No one can prove he cannot exist because there is nothing to test. But the signs of reality move towards there not being a god. Deal with it.
You are a very angry person, and seek to convince people that a religion that teaches peace and love of one another, and that there is God who loves us all no matter what, and has given us the gift of life and the chance to do with it whatever we want. That is psycho. The old saying is misery loves company, and you r clearly angry at life and the world around you. Just bc something has not been discovered does it mean it does not exist? It is far more likely he does exist, than not.
Also your view of the world and your own abilities is very ignorant and arrogant. You act as if humans are all knowing. Through out history events have occurred that have been well documented and witnessed that defy what we accept as science, the laws of physics we believe, etc. Accepted scientific view once thought fact is proven to be false, often way off. 1000's of years, belief in the Judeau-Christian God and his word has not changed. And the wisdom and relivence of his word has not either.
And also another reason I insult god believers because its impossible to have a reasonable and logical conversation with you guys. Can't take people seriously if they think a talking snake is real.
@Drealist87 The other thing is miracles like this are rare, we have free will and are supposed to do things for ourselves, and value hard work. If it is within our ability to do something, we don't pray to be handed it, we pray for courage, or strength and willpower to get through it. God loves us all, even you. He wants us to be good people of strong character, and happy people. Not lazy ppl waiting and begging him for everything we want. It is up to us what we do with the life we are given.
Some people are really not all there (Terry72763 and zombie 161) Appreciate a miracle for what it is... God works miracles everyday this is not unusual!
is the baby going to have mental or physical disabilities? i'm guessing there's a good chance considering how many people that's happened to because of a complication during birth that cut off the air :/
Wow. This is amazing. It kinda reminds of my cousin who just had her baby at 3:00 AM New Years morning. But there's no similarity to what happened in this video, it just reminded me of it. This truly was a miracle.
This is definitely a miracle. All those who think otherwise are just a bunch of losers. I have my own Christmas miracle story to tell. While working on my computer on christmas eve, my OS suddenly froze. No matter what key I pressed, it was unresponsive. My computer literally 'died'. After 4-5 minutes of no response, I powered off my computer. And when I powered it on again, it miraculously came back to life. There is no other explanation for it but as a Christmas miracle.
Miracles began the moment God said "Let there be light", the miracles of God have never ceased. For all critics and believers alike, many things happen that we cannot understand. But miracles are divinely inspired by God and God alone. All of you be blessed in the name of the Lord and Happy New Year!
that's funny. in my book on christianity (bible) there's a part where Jesus said "i go for a time & a time again, but i shall return, there will be healings & miracles, BUT it is NOT by mine nor my fathers powers that these are done."
Have u forgotten there's a GOD powers other?(SATAN) that these are done!!
He (SATAN) has Miracled a great deal of things for u to honor the do'er of. [ Church on SUNday ] the Pagan GOD'S day of worshipping.
Commandment #4; Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you}. GO ye fools to rest on the first day. for they know NOT what they do. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Tomorrow i will REST.
when anything good happens, christians will jump all over it to say it was an act of God. yet when something bad happens they say, "well, God allows satan to do certain things sometimes." that still puts it on God... just a nicer way of saying it so it doesn't make God look bad by saying, "God killed these people."
thats what the bible says, the bible who was written by multiple peoples thoughts. oh wait, god spoke to them through the spirit and told them what to write. but people aren't writing anymore books of the bible. did god stop speaking to people? or is he the same yesterday today and forever? as claimed in the bible?
God takes and gives away for what reason? How does he select? Is is selection just? What made these 2 peoples lives more important then the slaves of Africa, the natives of the land called America, or the people of Palestine being killled? Your god has not helped these people and billions other. These people got lucky thats all.
Yeah, that's right. God should just make life a little dreamworld where noone dies? The downfall of man, sin, is the source of evil in the world. If you start blaming God for the evil in this world, you are a sad soul that cannot account for his own actions or realize the neccessity for death. If we didn't die, life would be pointless. Death gives meaning to life. Without it we would all be robots or at best angels, without a choice.
Everyone believes in their own god. You only believe in a christian god because you happened to be born here. And why does belief need to be a factor for 2-5 year old kids? That sounds sick to me that you can honestly watch something die and say " Well they dont believe in me so fuck em." Such a disgusting god you follow.
It is the religion that say that. No where is it stated, by God himself, that he sends anyone who does not believe in him to hell. People have translated his words, but who can say if they didn't adjust it to their needs? Wouldn't it help someone trying to make a new religion to say "if you don't believe in him, then when you die, you aren't going to heaven." Yes it would.
If you knew anything about the religion you hate, you'd know there is an age of innocence, and all who aren't told of the gospel are spared. And what makes you so positive I'm a christian? There definitely are things about christianity I disagree with and with other religions I disagree with. Why do Muslims chop people's arms off for stealing? Religion is just a crutch for people to fall on anyways.
Right. So the natives of this land America that were living peacefully were killed for what reason? Not some fucking Mayans down south. I am talking about the natives in the midwest and north of this land called america. They lived in peace and in the end were killed off brutally. Your god is not just. He is weak and a bitch. I do not care what religion you have if you think there is a god your a fucking idiot.
Lived peacefully? The tribes of the southern midwest were warring tribes, ever heard of the Apaches? All they did was war. I'm not saying that whites were innocent at all, far from it. But Indians were a far cry from peaceful. And I pretty sure the main killer of Indians was small pox. That's pretty malicious right there. It isn't idiotic to think there is a God either, have you never observed a gorgeous sunset or seen the beauty and power of a thunderstorm and wondered if there was a god?
No. I see kids born with deformities and wonder if there is one though. And peacefully as in a sense they were not going around the world causing widespread pain and suffering. Basically what they did in the past is baby shit compared to what goes on today and still I see no punishment. And how can you believe in a god when things as beautiful as thunderstorms exist along side things as ugly as humans. Yes you me everyone. Humans are currently a virus to this earth.
I am just wondering, if you did watch the video, do you feel happy for the family, you should. The mother and the baby almost ended up really dead, but a miracle happened and they came back to life. That is a great thing to happen. I was just wondering what you think of the story, that's all.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I suppose the previous "Gunman Shoots & Kills Man at Resort, Then Kills Himself" story just counts as Christmas bad luck, right? Why did this mother and child get a miracle, and not the guy who got shot? Did they believe in Jesus more? Does God love them more? What about all the other mothers that died in childbirth that day? None of them were good enough Christians to get a miracle?
Leave it to the faith-based Fox News Channel to report this as a miracle.
So anything that science doesn't understand fully (yet) is a 'miracle'? This is the attitude that stops humanity from exploring the unknown further since terming things as 'miracle' is easy.
It's funny how I predicted religious debates before even looking at the comments section.
WalkAroundDude 2 years ago
I've read this dialog between seinfan9 & Prior23 with great interested. All I can say is that Prior23 is getting trounced!
elihew 2 years ago
Where there's a miracle, there is a God =)
This is a great story! 5 stars!
yosoydame 2 years ago
These christian zealots are getting more and more desperate to try to boast their god around at any moment they can.
So when someone drops dead is that proof that a god doesn't exist?
Prior23 2 years ago
@Prior23 Obviously the family planned to have the mother and child die for a few moments in order to proselytize their faith. Give me a break.
seinfan9 2 years ago
No but just because it happened does not mean there is some God watching over them. What about the babies in Somalia? Will god help them from the rebels ravaging their homes and killing them and their family? Probably not because there is no god. Shit just happens.
Drealist87 2 years ago
What objective standard are you appealing to when you imply that killing babies is a bad thing? The presence of evil doesn't mean God isn't there. Free will was given to all of us, else our love for God wouldn't be love at all. So yeah, shit does happen.
seinfan9 2 years ago
People say god knows all. Why give free will when you know the choice someone is going to make? And god made evil. So god can also BE evil. But there is no god. You are living out of your mind bro. You are also hurting this earth and assisting in murder. But you do not see it because you are just a sheep.
Drealist87 2 years ago
Dodge the question if you must, but your unsubstantiated claim that evil exists is quite arbitrary, so nobody has reason to think that what you say on the matter is true.
Just because He knows what is going to happen, doesn't mean He controls our actions. Evil was a result of His willingness to let us choose. If you want to make God responsible, be my guest.
I'd like to know how I'm assisting in murder.
seinfan9 2 years ago
I like it how people act like they know gods exact plan. You do not know shit. And if you cannot see how you are helping people suffer and die in this world then you never will. You need to find out like I did. On my own. No one lead me. I questioned and looked deeper.
Drealist87 2 years ago
I have a general idea of His character because of the testimonies of men that lived and walked with Jesus Christ. Supernatural claims were made about Christ and they died for those beliefs. I find it hard to believe that they died for a lie.
Unless you can tell me what it is I do that endangers others (I don't see what I've implied in my comments thus far), then I have reason to believe you just want to toss ad hominem attacks my way just for believing in a deity.
seinfan9 2 years ago
Any supernatural claim needs proof. Valid and reasonable proof. Someones testimony is not enough. And like I said I will not tell you anything. No one told me anything. I broke myself out of the god delusion my parents tried to place on me and looked at the world as it is. And its not just you. If you live in America like me its all of Americans. And believe what you want. But until you bring proof its just fiction. I doubt it will ever be fact.
Drealist87 2 years ago
Firstly, what is your standard of proof? Empirical evidence? That presupposes that our senses are the only arbiters of reality (heck, someone on acid could be experiencing reality) and you make a categorical error in saying supernatural claims need proof/evidence in a naturalistic sense of the word. Can you prove that logic, truth, and reality are... real? These are axioms we adhere to, and simply saying that we just know they're real is begging the question.
seinfan9 2 years ago
Do you believe in Zeus? Santa? The tooth fairy? the Easter bunny? Allah? And if you dont then why not? Answer that question and you got your answer.
Drealist87 2 years ago
Ah, yes. The beating of a dead horse.
Allow me to clarify my statement of the "categorical error". Tell me why it logically follows that I must show you empirical evidence of the supernatural. If I were to do such a thing, you would attempt to explain it away naturalistically; it gets us nowhere.
Nevertheless, my justification in the belief in God is the historical evidence that surrounds Jesus Christ's life, death, and resurrection. And yes, there are extrabiblical documents on the matter.
seinfan9 2 years ago
Documents are not enough evidence. Also empirical is to broad range. I want just experimental evidence. Like throwing a virgin who has done nothing but good and preach the word of god off a roof. And you cannot explain away hardcore experimental evidence. And Jesus is not real either. I am done with this. You are obviously caught deep in the delusion. When you die you will see.
Drealist87 2 years ago
We have more historical evidence for Jesus Christ than we do for Julius Caesar.
Someone who parades around with an elitist attitude calling theists delusional doesn't see the irony.
And since you're done, I'll throw in a rhetorical question: Can you show me experimental evidence that our senses are real? Using our senses to justify our senses would simply be circular reasoning.
Take care.
seinfan9 2 years ago
We do not have historical evidence for the Jesus Christ of the bible like we do Julius Caesar. This is 100% absolute bullshit, show me where you got this from, how you got this, and why it is a reasonable statement. Please. I have never heard something so stupid in my life. No where in the world except for the bible do we hear of a man who walks on water. Give me a break.
Prior23 2 years ago
I have one more simple question if you ignore all my others at least answer this one.
How do you know that this was not Thor that saved their baby. Don't dismiss this as a silly question I want to know an exact reason why.
Prior23 2 years ago
Highly doubt.
Drealist87 2 years ago
@seinfan9
So you are saying that you would kill babies if not for your fear of god?
My reason for believing that killing babies is wrong is because it is not beneficial to our species, our evolutionary benefit is that our children are the furthering of our species, without reproduction our species would fail. So we trained through evolution to protect our kin, plus I think killing of any nature is distasteful. I certainly didn't use your god as a moral standard, he's a murderer.
Prior23 2 years ago
Quite a number of replies, so let me see if I can get to them in.
I never said that you need to believe in a deity to have morals. Without an objective standard, you have no justification for using morals. Your definition of morality is counter-intuitive, if not, self refuting. It basically comes down to being selfish. "I can't have the things I want without others living." So if one wants to keep on killing, then they need to keep the species alive and let some individuals live.
[cont]
seinfan9 2 years ago
God created life, and has the the right and His reasons to take it away. Just because He doesn't fit in your little box of what He should do to be good (you have questionable morals as it is because it comes down to survival/selfishness), doesn't mean He isn't.
To be intellectually honest here, I meant Tiberius Julius Caesar. He was Roman emperor during Christ's time.
[cont]
seinfan9 2 years ago
I just got finished explaining to the other kid why I hold to the belief of the Christian God. Historical evidence supports the existence of Christ, and the circumstantial evidence suggests that He did rise from the dead. A dying Messiah would not have been the best lie to purport. Are you telling me 500+ witnesses went insane and saw the exact same thing? That's highly improbable.
seinfan9 2 years ago
You think because God created life he has the right to do what he wants with it?!?!
Okay so let me get this straight, by these circumstances my parents have the right to kill me when they feel like it correct?
And where are these 500+ witnesses spoke about? Only in the bible? Where are their published accounts and what evidence do you have for the following? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Prior23 2 years ago
How is my moral reasoning self refuting? We are bred through evolution by the means of tribes and groups to help one another for the benefit of the whole. How is this counter-intuitive? I don't understand how what I'm saying is any way not getting through to you. We started as small tribes, to not help others would be detrimental to the whole of society, if we all lived for ourselves we would have gone extinct a long time ago.
Prior23 2 years ago
Your parents did not create your mind [I'm not referring to the brain, rather the sentience/consciousness that is you 24/7]
Just because texts are canonized as scripture does not preclude their historical authenticity, that is a genetic fallacy. Try looking up Philo, Tacitus, Polycarp, Irenaeous, Josephus, or Senca. Some of these are secular sources.
Your whole premise for morality is selfishness: "I can't get what I want if I can't survive."
seinfan9 2 years ago
What is more selfish than "I'm going to be good because god is making me, and if I'm not good I won't get into the magical afterlife so I can live forever!"
I do good things even when I know it's all for nothing in the end when we die, but still I strive to help others because I CARE. I don't do it for some promised treasures in some made up fantasy world. I know everyone is going to die and be forgotten eventually but hey I still help people.
Prior23 2 years ago
You have an ignorance for Christian theology. Christians believe that you can do nothing of yourself to earn a spot in heaven. Christ only.
It's funny to me that you espouse a view of objective morality, but you believe they came about subjectively. I'd suggest you rethink your stance a bit.
The brain does come about in a natural way, but the material (and many immaterial absolutes) are upheld together by something constantly.
Free will. I mentioned it in a previous comment to the other guy.
seinfan9 2 years ago
So you can murder and get into heaven as long as you accept Christ as your savior? Sounds like a great methodology.
Prior23 2 years ago
It's not that simple. There is, of course, forgiveness of sin, but simply proclaiming Christ and living it up like a madman puts that faith into question. The seed of faith produces good fruit. Only God knows where you truly stand. Scripture says even the demons believe in Christ, so no, simply acknowledging His work on the cross doesn't save you. I implore you, don't make radical assumptions about a belief you have little understanding of.
seinfan9 2 years ago
So you do have to do works, you have to beg for forgiveness. You are making excuses for something you yourself have no concept of how it works because it is full of contradictions, I wouldn't expect it to make sense...
Prior23 2 years ago
Works do not determine salvation, repentance is a work of God because it is the Holy Spirit that is knocking on the door of your heart.
Atheists adhere to contradicting views: it is a lack of belief in God, a belief there is no God, the default position, not a position at all, an approach to theistic claims, whatever you make it to be, nothing in and of itself (contradictory in that statement alone), the truth (although it can't be proven), freedom etc. The list goes on.
seinfan9 2 years ago
Okay the truth is, you can have anyway you want to get into your heaven that's not what I care to even discuss here. I asked you how you know that Thor did not revived the mom on her baby and that it was in fact the god of the bible.
Prior23 2 years ago
Let me say this one more time for you: I said there is historical evidence for the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The men who knew Christ firsthand attested to this, claiming Him God in the flesh. Now, what was their view on God? There is only one God, and He is eternal; none before and none after.
seinfan9 2 years ago
Okay, you can say all day there is only one god, he is this he is that. But how can you show this to me. If I told you the flying spaghetti monster was the only god no matter what, I wouldn't expect you to just accept it? You still have not even told me what this historical evidence is for the resurrection of Christ is? Of course the Bible says it, it also says Jonah lived in the belly of a whale for 3 days.
Prior23 2 years ago
Yes, there's also a talking serpent, talking donkey, a period of time the Earth stopped rotating, people surviving in a fire unscathed, and the number of things Jesus did. With a naturalistic mindset, I wouldn't expect you to believe in supernatural occurrences. And even if you experienced anything of the like, you would attempt to explain it away by natural means. I understand your position more than you do, how sad is that?
[cont]
seinfan9 2 years ago
I already gave you the names of extrabiblical sources in a comment earlier. Do you have selective memory? You can do the research yourself.
seinfan9 2 years ago
Seems you are dodging my question once again. You said there is evidence of the resurrection, where is this evidence. You dance around every comment with some other attack on my stance when you don't even possess the rudimentary abilities to reason.
You are insulting me for not believing there is a talking snake that is mentioned in an old book? Are you really going to say that makes me an unreasonable person? Sorry that I care about whats true, I don't follow everything blindly.
Prior23 2 years ago
So when something that seems supernatural or even natural everyday occurrences happen you cut to the conclusion that it was some kind of divine intervention or spiritual action. And you insult me for finding a natural explanation for a natural occurrence. What have we ever benefited from evoking the supernatural to answer all our questions? We would still be living in the dark ages.
Prior23 2 years ago
How can you even believe the earth is 6 thousand years old???
Prior23 2 years ago
You're not a child, do the research, read, watch vids on the matter.
Here's the problem: you posit that anything can be experienced, regardless if it goes against what we know about physical/natural laws is what occurs naturally. We would then have to surmise that the presupposition for science (the uniformity of nature) is bunk and all prior knowledge of the universe cannot be used to make predictions, i.e. science isn't possible.
I'm in the midst of reconsidering my stance on a young Earth.
seinfan9 2 years ago
I'm Catholic and I believe in evolution.
Go to 'drcraigvideos'
xtrashed 2 years ago
So when you are born your brain does not form through natural means? Every brain is made up on the spot by god? If this is true then god made up everyone's mind which is a product of the brain, and causes people to be brain dead, develop autism and become serial killers.
Prior23 2 years ago
the even was that they stopped working with the mother, and when the baby was revived the mother immediatly somehow was too. READ THE ARTICLES!!!
supermatt1985 2 years ago
without medical attention i mean.
supermatt1985 2 years ago
Can someone please prove that god and ONLY god, and not the Flying Spaghetti Monster or an invisible pink unicorn was responsible for these 2 coming back from the dead.
Thanks!
Xamaza 2 years ago
regardless of anyone saying it was God or not, if they had cardiac arrest that means their heart stopped beating and they died. And medical attention at all was resurrected. So believe what you want.
supermatt1985 2 years ago
@supermatt1985
Did everyone walk away and leave them to die or were medical personnel actively trying to save them? Did everyone stop trying to save them and only pray? So the trained professionals used proven techniques to save lives, post heart attack. Yep only explanation is god helped. Really? This is your proof?
Sorry not buying that. But I do have some ocean front property in Arizona for sale if you are interested.
Xamaza 2 years ago
ive read about this they tried to continually work on the baby but the mother was declared dead.
supermatt1985 2 years ago
@supermatt1985
So they wheeled her out of the room and left her aside and provided no further attempts to bring the mother back after her heart stopped?
The answer is of course no. They continued to try to save her and holy shit! Look they did. Praise god the people trained by humans to do a job, did the job and got the result of yeras of study and practice.
Xamaza 2 years ago
no they declared her dead and then proceeded to try to resecessate the baby learn to read before you start running your mouth
supermatt1985 2 years ago
@supermatt1985
So I ask you, is god, the only possible explanation for this outcome? If so, what proof is there that your god and no an invisible pink unicorn or the flying spaghetti monster was in fact the cause.
Xamaza 2 years ago
again you need to read i said regardless about GOD they died and came back to life, so yes it was a miracle regardless of your beliefs.
supermatt1985 2 years ago
@supermatt1985
again I ask what proof do you have that the event was :
an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.
Can you prove to me, that her heart did not start beating on its own or the result of CPR or the result of electricity being shot through her body?
I have given suggestions as to the cause which gives the exact same result as your miracle.
Xamaza 2 years ago
It's 2010 and if you still think there's a god then I feel sorry for you.
jwilla11 2 years ago
Is there a scientific explanation to this kind of phenomenon?
TheSenseofTouch 2 years ago
@TheSenseofTouch
Lack of explaination in science does not prove god or divine intervention or miracles.
Xamaza 2 years ago
No. There isn't ^_^
KitsuneTrick 2 years ago
congrats
manuelito1559 2 years ago
drealist78 humans are not a virus and there is a god every religion believes in a god buddahist believe in buddah thats there god and YZtwostrokin im not against u im not on anyones side but its truth dat the americans infected the native americans with small pox just to let you know and christains commited crimes not just muslims every religion commited crimes and in the bible jesus died for our crimes/mistakes/sins.
jovan11001 2 years ago
YZtwostrokin your wrong about muslims killing there and other people. some muslims do of course but every religion kill there own and other people look how many murder stories are there on the news and look how many of them r christians im not bagging on any christians but im just saying muslims aren't bad people and muslims are one of the first religion and im not muslim im orthodox dats one of the first christianaty there is also and Drealist87 not all americans are bad and no god is weak.
jovan11001 2 years ago
I was just saying that's one of their punishments, not that they just go around killing each other. Between the different factions of Islam there is war. A few hundred years ago there was war between the different factions of christianity. I know Muslims are generally good people but that doesn't change the fact they have brutal punishments
YZtwostrokin 2 years ago
miracle? Did Gawd bring her back to life or did the medical professionals do their job? Thank Jebus those professionals were successful, but this is not a miracle.
durtydave420 2 years ago
ooo god bless them! what a very cute baby!
BaB3B001 2 years ago
Wow, thats amazing. Imagine what that must have felt like.
xSlimJimmx 2 years ago
That is awesome! Prayer is a powerful thing. :)
trepidity23 2 years ago 2
Yes, so awesome. What a great Chrismas present; a second chance to live.
TheCaljoy 2 years ago
hahah yeah prayer did this. Not the advancements in the medical field.
Drealist87 2 years ago
A mix between prayer and medical advancements. A miracle either way.
JonasHouse09 2 years ago
Why do all you Atheist go around behaving like children and insulting any thing and anyone you come across who believes in God? There is no valid reason to do that.
Second, I would love to know more on this medical advancement you speak of that suddenly brings two separate people back to life at the same time with out medical explanation as to how or why. Where was this amazing device used in this situation?
trepidity23 2 years ago
I do it because you God belivers do not realize that they are not living in the current state of reality and are actually harming the world by just praying and not taking action to fix the problems of the world
And I do not know what was used but it definitely would not have been possible for them to be alive if they were not in the hospital. If people claim its a miracle when there is another person near death throw them out the hospital. Let some people pray and see what happens.
Drealist87 2 years ago
For someone who is on a mission to destroy other people's faith, or at least spend a lot of energy talking crap to them, you clearly know very little about Christianity. God is far more intelligent than you r capable of being, when did u learn everything about everything and know how to fix everything thus being a good source of criticism of what God does?
trepidity23 2 years ago
Intelligent? No. Disgusting and worthless. Yes. Your god is not real. You have no talked to god. And you damn sure as hell did not give him an I.Q test.
Drealist87 2 years ago
@Drealist87
You have a very clear underlying emotional issue relating to this subject matter, or at least coming out in it. You say we are crazy for believing in God, I submit it is crazy not to. You mean to tell me that the entire universe, intelligent life, all the things in it, as perfectly in sync and setup as they are, is bc of random accident. Do you know the Odds of that? U can't fathom that number. Where did everything come from, why is it here? Nobody can prove he doesn't exist either.
trepidity23 2 years ago
No one can prove because there is nothing to test. Also do you believe in Zeus, Athena? And you have some emotional issue that causes you to find peace in something you cannot even comprehend or understand. That is weak and very scary. And again. No one can prove he cannot exist because there is nothing to test. But the signs of reality move towards there not being a god. Deal with it.
Drealist87 2 years ago
@Drealist87
You are a very angry person, and seek to convince people that a religion that teaches peace and love of one another, and that there is God who loves us all no matter what, and has given us the gift of life and the chance to do with it whatever we want. That is psycho. The old saying is misery loves company, and you r clearly angry at life and the world around you. Just bc something has not been discovered does it mean it does not exist? It is far more likely he does exist, than not.
trepidity23 2 years ago
Also your view of the world and your own abilities is very ignorant and arrogant. You act as if humans are all knowing. Through out history events have occurred that have been well documented and witnessed that defy what we accept as science, the laws of physics we believe, etc. Accepted scientific view once thought fact is proven to be false, often way off. 1000's of years, belief in the Judeau-Christian God and his word has not changed. And the wisdom and relivence of his word has not either.
trepidity23 2 years ago
And also another reason I insult god believers because its impossible to have a reasonable and logical conversation with you guys. Can't take people seriously if they think a talking snake is real.
Drealist87 2 years ago
@Drealist87 The other thing is miracles like this are rare, we have free will and are supposed to do things for ourselves, and value hard work. If it is within our ability to do something, we don't pray to be handed it, we pray for courage, or strength and willpower to get through it. God loves us all, even you. He wants us to be good people of strong character, and happy people. Not lazy ppl waiting and begging him for everything we want. It is up to us what we do with the life we are given.
trepidity23 2 years ago
omg god works in very unusal ways!!!
mzfalfal 2 years ago
Some people are really not all there (Terry72763 and zombie 161) Appreciate a miracle for what it is... God works miracles everyday this is not unusual!
GabeMG53 2 years ago
bullcrap.
pugggs 2 years ago
Is the baby even brain healthy due to lack of oxygen?
A miracle is a normal delivery don't y'a think?
psynema 2 years ago
this only means one thing, global warning is bringing our dead back to life, quick burn our dead so they dont come back.
zombie161 2 years ago
Haha. A zombie epidemic would be awesome, wouldn't it? Talk about fun times!
Dire327 2 years ago
hell yeah ill be talihasie and u be columbus
zombie161 2 years ago
is the baby going to have mental or physical disabilities? i'm guessing there's a good chance considering how many people that's happened to because of a complication during birth that cut off the air :/
jbaileyfour 2 years ago 2
Wow. This is amazing. It kinda reminds of my cousin who just had her baby at 3:00 AM New Years morning. But there's no similarity to what happened in this video, it just reminded me of it. This truly was a miracle.
TANCOthe3rd 2 years ago
Man, that's incredibly.
KrazyKid215 2 years ago
True Miracle by God - this never happens in the first place so the baby isn't at risk for brain damage.
psynema 2 years ago
This is definitely a miracle. All those who think otherwise are just a bunch of losers. I have my own Christmas miracle story to tell. While working on my computer on christmas eve, my OS suddenly froze. No matter what key I pressed, it was unresponsive. My computer literally 'died'. After 4-5 minutes of no response, I powered off my computer. And when I powered it on again, it miraculously came back to life. There is no other explanation for it but as a Christmas miracle.
bhavishyagoel 2 years ago
it has nothing to do with christmas, that could've happened on any other day
it was just luck
NightManiacs 2 years ago 2
You don't really understand sarcasm, do you? Or, you are referring to the original story?
bhavishyagoel 2 years ago
the original one
NightManiacs 2 years ago
Miracles began the moment God said "Let there be light", the miracles of God have never ceased. For all critics and believers alike, many things happen that we cannot understand. But miracles are divinely inspired by God and God alone. All of you be blessed in the name of the Lord and Happy New Year!
jenlyeng001 2 years ago 2
that's funny. in my book on christianity (bible) there's a part where Jesus said "i go for a time & a time again, but i shall return, there will be healings & miracles, BUT it is NOT by mine nor my fathers powers that these are done."
Have u forgotten there's a GOD powers other?(SATAN) that these are done!!
TERRY72763 2 years ago
He (SATAN) has Miracled a great deal of things for u to honor the do'er of. [ Church on SUNday ] the Pagan GOD'S day of worshipping.
Commandment #4; Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you}. GO ye fools to rest on the first day. for they know NOT what they do. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Tomorrow i will REST.
TERRY72763 2 years ago
when anything good happens, christians will jump all over it to say it was an act of God. yet when something bad happens they say, "well, God allows satan to do certain things sometimes." that still puts it on God... just a nicer way of saying it so it doesn't make God look bad by saying, "God killed these people."
pugggs 2 years ago
GOD Gives and takes away. A wise person trust in the Lord. The fear of the Lord is the Beginning of Wisdom. (Proverbs)
yatta428 2 years ago
@yatta428
thats what the bible says, the bible who was written by multiple peoples thoughts. oh wait, god spoke to them through the spirit and told them what to write. but people aren't writing anymore books of the bible. did god stop speaking to people? or is he the same yesterday today and forever? as claimed in the bible?
pugggs 2 years ago
@pugggs the last person that "god spoke too" was joseph smith jr, the founder of mormonism
nickrolars 2 years ago
@nickrolars
anyone who thinks God speaks to them, is a fool.
pugggs 2 years ago
lol so true.
Drealist87 2 years ago
God takes and gives away for what reason? How does he select? Is is selection just? What made these 2 peoples lives more important then the slaves of Africa, the natives of the land called America, or the people of Palestine being killled? Your god has not helped these people and billions other. These people got lucky thats all.
Drealist87 2 years ago
Yeah, that's right. God should just make life a little dreamworld where noone dies? The downfall of man, sin, is the source of evil in the world. If you start blaming God for the evil in this world, you are a sad soul that cannot account for his own actions or realize the neccessity for death. If we didn't die, life would be pointless. Death gives meaning to life. Without it we would all be robots or at best angels, without a choice.
micahszabo 2 years ago
Those people didn't believe in God, nor worship him. Maybe that's why he didn't help them?
YZtwostrokin 2 years ago
Everyone believes in their own god. You only believe in a christian god because you happened to be born here. And why does belief need to be a factor for 2-5 year old kids? That sounds sick to me that you can honestly watch something die and say " Well they dont believe in me so fuck em." Such a disgusting god you follow.
Drealist87 2 years ago
It is the religion that say that. No where is it stated, by God himself, that he sends anyone who does not believe in him to hell. People have translated his words, but who can say if they didn't adjust it to their needs? Wouldn't it help someone trying to make a new religion to say "if you don't believe in him, then when you die, you aren't going to heaven." Yes it would.
JonasHouse09 2 years ago
If you knew anything about the religion you hate, you'd know there is an age of innocence, and all who aren't told of the gospel are spared. And what makes you so positive I'm a christian? There definitely are things about christianity I disagree with and with other religions I disagree with. Why do Muslims chop people's arms off for stealing? Religion is just a crutch for people to fall on anyways.
YZtwostrokin 2 years ago
Right. So the natives of this land America that were living peacefully were killed for what reason? Not some fucking Mayans down south. I am talking about the natives in the midwest and north of this land called america. They lived in peace and in the end were killed off brutally. Your god is not just. He is weak and a bitch. I do not care what religion you have if you think there is a god your a fucking idiot.
Drealist87 2 years ago
Lived peacefully? The tribes of the southern midwest were warring tribes, ever heard of the Apaches? All they did was war. I'm not saying that whites were innocent at all, far from it. But Indians were a far cry from peaceful. And I pretty sure the main killer of Indians was small pox. That's pretty malicious right there. It isn't idiotic to think there is a God either, have you never observed a gorgeous sunset or seen the beauty and power of a thunderstorm and wondered if there was a god?
YZtwostrokin 2 years ago
No. I see kids born with deformities and wonder if there is one though. And peacefully as in a sense they were not going around the world causing widespread pain and suffering. Basically what they did in the past is baby shit compared to what goes on today and still I see no punishment. And how can you believe in a god when things as beautiful as thunderstorms exist along side things as ugly as humans. Yes you me everyone. Humans are currently a virus to this earth.
Drealist87 2 years ago
lol so true
Drealist87 2 years ago
@SamProductionFilms
I am just wondering, if you did watch the video, do you feel happy for the family, you should. The mother and the baby almost ended up really dead, but a miracle happened and they came back to life. That is a great thing to happen. I was just wondering what you think of the story, that's all.
cettca 2 years ago
@cettca it happens all the time. big deal. they didnt die. there heart just stopped. doesnt mean they died.
SamProductionFilms 2 years ago
god bless that family hope they had a wonderful xmas!
bubbles70232 2 years ago 2
there is no god..
SamProductionFilms 2 years ago
It's fine that you don't believe in God, but miracles can happen, it can. Did you watch the video?
cettca 2 years ago 2
Praise God He Is Full Of Miracles!!!
Gianna7448 2 years ago
dang !!!!!!!!
i saw this on yahoo!
this guy better be good and treat his wife and son good! miracles are beautiful!
praise the lord
allanisfresh 2 years ago
God is still in the miracle business. Praise you Jesus and kudos too fox and boo on ABC
gdouglaswarner 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I suppose the previous "Gunman Shoots & Kills Man at Resort, Then Kills Himself" story just counts as Christmas bad luck, right? Why did this mother and child get a miracle, and not the guy who got shot? Did they believe in Jesus more? Does God love them more? What about all the other mothers that died in childbirth that day? None of them were good enough Christians to get a miracle?
Leave it to the faith-based Fox News Channel to report this as a miracle.
fubintien 2 years ago
@fabintien GOD loves us all the same...... so dont blame it on him
:)
coopkiller123 2 years ago
@coopkiller123 Then don't give him the credit, either. :D
fubintien 2 years ago
true :(
coopkiller123 2 years ago
@fubintien when God wants your time to come. It does. God just didnt need them at the time.
Bl4kFoXlegos 2 years ago
he would of lost everything near and dear to him in one day, thankgod. a great miracle
1fredluver 2 years ago
Thats beautiful~
YinYangYoFan13 2 years ago 2
So anything that science doesn't understand fully (yet) is a 'miracle'? This is the attitude that stops humanity from exploring the unknown further since terming things as 'miracle' is easy.
bhavishyagoel 2 years ago
WOW Thats amazing
BorrowedSoldier 2 years ago 4
tinagetchel,
Matthew 10:33
"But whoever denies me before man, I also will deny them before my Father who is in Heaven."
ryen1992 2 years ago
Preach it now! Bringing the Word of God into this is the only way to go!
jenlyeng001 2 years ago
Praise the Lord
jerrysmith29 2 years ago
god is good
yodudeman34 2 years ago 2
@yodudeman34 no no no. god is so good. god is so good. he's so good 2 me. :) iz a song :)
coopkiller123 2 years ago
i love that song! :]]
merx444 2 years ago
DANG! Christmas is a miricle holiday.
tinagetchel 2 years ago
Thank God!
hossh01 2 years ago