if the tories fuck up the nhs they are playing into the snp hands in scotland.the union will be split! people in scotland are sick of voting for labour just for the tories to take office and do things like this and the new welfare act,i voted lab my whole life but its time to go on our own. a free and independent scotland in 3 years thats what i hope will happen and im not the only one sick of the tories destroying OUR health service and making poor people poorer .you voted them in england
The Royal Colleges OPPOSE the Health & Social Care Bill, the BMA OPPOSE the HSCB, the Faculty of Public Health OPPOSE the HSCB, 66% of NHS staff OPPOSE the HSCB, 170,000 petitioners OPPOSE the HSCB, the public OPPOSE the HSCB...
There's STILL time to grow a spine and FIGHT for your grass roots voters!
When this goes horribly wrong the Tories will blame YOU and their voice will be much louder than that of the Lib Dems.
No government will ever admit to privatising your NHS because it would be political suicide.
But that's EXACTLY what these plans are aimed at.
They will increasingly weaken the state and increasingly force the handover to private forces.
America has private healthcare. They spend 16% of GDP on health compared to the British 8.4%. They have a HIGHER infant mortality. They have a LOWER life expectancy. About 50 MILLION people can't get health insurance.
Thatcher might have started the privatisation business on the NHS but Labour really put some welly into it - more and more of our NHS budget each year is going to pay off their PFI stupidity, short-term headlines about building hospitals in the 90s not mentioning it was on the never-never and at the cost of patient care today.
@radicalsystems Every day there 380,000 NHS outpatients, 1 million people see an NHS GP and 180,000 are in an NHS hospital. Poor care is never excusable, but we will find that after this disgraceful Bill is passed it will be harder for the NHS to give good care. The inadequate, inefficient for-profit private hospitals are incapable of delivering good care at that scale.
@richardblogger what bothers me is the murdoch press who are cleaerly doing all they can to descredit the NHS so that the wonder cure of privatisation will 'rescue' it,,,its a classic tory tactic..
@radicalsystems Fine, use your money, and go private. Dividing the NHS up will not solve that kind of problem. In order to save money so the private businesses can make a profit corners will be cut and staffing levels will be reduced, leaving fewer staff to care for elderly patients. That is if they make it into hospital. Many will be refused treatment as their age will leave them with many co-morbidities meaning their treatment will be more complex, costly and less profitable.
@richardblogger Not a hope, Labour don't reverse anything the tory vermin mess up, never have. The tories will bleat about "cost" if the NHS is repaired, but they've been opposed to it since its inception and have been tearing little chunks out of it whenever the electorate are stupid enough to give them power. In this case, they're doing the most damage to our services they've ever done, and they didn't even win the election, & have no mandate. they're rotten to the very core, and we're screwed
Like they reversed all of Thatchers measures? *cough* anti-trade union laws *cough* Don't be so sure. The Tories reverse a lot of what Labour do, Labour deliberately keep Tory changes that are positive for big business. Voting Labour will not keep our NHS safe, the best way to keep the NHS public AND to improve it as a service is to fight for it with industrial action.
Hi figures were from the annual report of my local PCT. Its best if you look at the board papers of your PCT about March, April time and look at the finance report. Proportions will be similar to the ones I used.
@Saberhagen19243 the profit motive does not improve all the private companies do is increase costs and siphon out as much money as they can for profit
The government is destroying everything they touch....and by design too.
I've had it with being a slave to these scumbag demons. I have 2 brothers and a grandmother that all died due to negligence and greed for money in the health care industry.
It's not health care, it's death care and it must be stopped!
@Saberhagen19243 Why is competition a good thing? Has the NHS been inefficient? Is it too expensive? No. The Wanless Report reported a two and a half billion UNDERSPEND during the period 1972-1999.
@Saberhagen19243 Believe me, is a bad thing. And is a bad thing because this Bill will increase the cost of health care, and Government will begin, in a few years, to cut service. Public hospitals, well run, are lot cheaper than private providers.
@Saberhagen19243 Ah now this is the big question. The government is planning to bring in personal budgets which (in a time of austerity) will limit the care you can have for free. Many health policy experts say that this will lead to top-ups (which happen already, whatever you buy at a pharmacist is essentially a top-up), but as austerity bites the top-ups will be needed for more essential care. Look at the charges for dentistry: that's what personal budgets will lead to.
So we are getting all the negative of a socialist AND capitalist system. I am in favour of private health care system over the NHSbut this will not work.
On the 17th of May there is going to be a mass protest against the changes to the NHS, please invite your friends and spread the word, it needs to be huge if we want it to have an impact. OUR HEALTH SERVICE NOT FOR SALE – MARCH TO SAVE THE NHS Tuesday 17 May 5.30pm UCH, Gower St, WC1 (Euston/Euston Sq/Warren St)
The fact is that the NHS is failing thousands every year. Tony Bliar introduced a choice of privately funded treatment centres to help reduce the burdon on the NHS, wonder how many hypocrites on here would turn that choice down if they needed an op?????????
@markyboy1704 The fact that someone can afford it doesn't mean they are scum enough to wish that those who can't afford it shouldn't have it. Has too much hypocrisy made you forget what the word means?
@janebusby No one who cares an iota about the NHS (and wants to be politically consistent) could ever have voted for the tories, at any stage since the NHS was created.
@BLUESGUITARMANIAC In the US half of the hospitals are social enterprises. And these hospitals have the highest paid executives. Yes, you are right, somebody has to make money somewhere.
As a long term sufferer of mental health problems-the one umbrella aspect of mental health services as they stand do NOT provide for my needs and they never did!
With PROFIT the motive foremost i expect this to get WORSE.
Nobody cares i have had the right care for me NOW.
The Government involvement insetting up the commissioning GP consortia is ultimately about phasing in the complete privatisation od healthcare in the UK. The consortia will intially be ( non proft making but certainly surplus making) social enterprise organisations and they inturn will be completely privatised in 5 to 10 years. The universal dynamics of the NHS will go, then citizens health care will depend on how much money they have in their bank accounts
Since you are so clever, I am surprised that you are not aware of the Framework for procuring External Support for Commissioners. This is a list (drawn up by the last government) of preferred private sector providers.
In this case, although the GPs could very well outsource the commisioning to private bodies the actual PCT would still be a public body and thus can be prevented from commisioning services from any private body that might not be representing the public interest.
Sorry to have gone on a bit but I just can't see this happening. Nice pie chart though. In reality what will happen is very little. It will still be the same staff delivering the same services just with a different label.
@thelazer365 while they may be the same staff, what you miss is that as a private company they have to make a profit (compnay law mandates this) this is profit that would have gone into healthcare in a fully public system.
Incidentally, please do make a video about the bank privatisation. I would be interested to see what figures you use.
I could have made a similar video regarding the ridiculous way that both the banks and railways were nationalised under the last government (the former by accident and the latter by stealth) and argue that we were soon to be living in a fascist state. The element of the argument that I would have convieniently missed is that we do in fact live in a democracy and this would have shown to be the case at the last election.
@thelazer365 - Oh? In which case where is the referendum or other democratic apparatus for preventing or reversing the process?
Where is the democratic mechanism for showing my support or lack thereof for a specific policy?
What is the democratic process by which we can choose the ingredients which make up the manifesto of either of the main parties or in anyway avoid the Red Car/Blue Car two party conundrum?
If everyone believes only two parties can win, people will choose the lesser evil.
This argument is about as wooly as the white paper on which it's based on. The video would appear to suggest that the public will lose control of NHS services and will be able to do little to stop that money lining the pockets of rich executives. I would like to know where these private companies are going to come from and how they are going to staff themselves without using staff already employed to provide NHS services and brainwash them into this evil 'private' way of working?
@thelazer365 - There is no brainwashing required, and the Private companies (or consortia) have already shown up: London Commissioning will be handled by KPMG, United Health UK, Healthskills, Morgan Cole, NAPC and co. the staff will continue to do their jobs moving money from A - B, it's just that B will have been selected by private companies with very different priorities to the PCTs.
a) if the NHS is weak and we own it, we fix it, finding the balance between quality and cost of care.
b) if the NHS is weak and we don't own it, the standard private sector argument is valid "You pay your, money you take your choice"
c) there is no way of carrying out an objective comparison. If prices rocket, or quality crumbles, the argument from the private sector will simply be "Market conditions, the NHS would have been worse"
@blacktriangle - GPs' private status is a shame, rather than a catastrophe. The lack of any nationalised or even SE comparison for GPs reinforces the point: we have currently one of the most cost efficient healthcare systems in the world.
We are about to take a huge gamble to try to make it more efficient than has ever been shown, even theoretically, to be possible.
We are not playing catchup: we're vying for the lead but are going to risk a swan dive off a cliff in the hope of edging ahead.
@calorus "Efficiency" is not the point. The NHS needs to be effective at protecting people's health. It's not a firm of accountants, its a health service.
You left wing SA whacks don't know what you're talking about. Government doesn't know how to do anything right. So stop blaming the right and wake up. Government is not the answer.
@garriphillips That's not neo-liberalism, that's still statism. The government is even more involved in healthcare with these reforms because it is regulating both public and private hospitals.
Excellent video. Very informative and enlightening!! The Tories are starting the complete privatisation and deregulization of the NHS. They do not have a mandate to do this and i hope more people see this video and are then inspired to join campaigns to stop them and the Lib Dems from doing this
Excellent video. It explained clearly and articulately what the Tories are about to embark upon, ie the complete privatisation and deregulization of health care in the UK. The Tories do have a mandate to privatise our NHS. More clearly devoloped educational and informative material like this video will hopefully spur people on to join campaigns that will stop the Tories!!!
This is a natural monopoly and allowing it to be for-profit is part of a tollbooth economy as described by economist Michael Hudson. People will pay more money for the same services, or lesser service, so as to make already wealthy people wealthier still.
The point you utterly fail to realise is that when in private hands, Market Forces are much more powerful... The public can vote with their feet (and money), this is what forces SE's/Private Companies to improve services.
You're talking about health here and quite frankly I want the best service I can get, I will go to the best Hospital I can, even if that means I have to travel.pay to/for it.
I'm sorry but this is absurd. How on earth can people "vote with there feet" with health care? are they to go on a disease ridden boycott? And as for going to the "best hospital" wouldn't that overcrowd and stretch the resources of those hospitals? and what about emergency care? are you seriously telling me that if you broke a bone or had a heart attack or had your water break you'd just hang on for a lengthy ride to a better scoring hospital?
OUR NHS, if it's ours then why do WE have no control over it, why do WE not get to decide what tests we should get when our often totally incompetent GPs fail to diagnose properly, and why do WE have an NHS that is effectively an outlet for multinational pharmaceutical giants.
To say its public is a joke, the GP service is private pretending to be public & GMC does not act in the public interest, it strikes off doctors who try to help patients, protects the criminal & works for pharma giants
Your figures are deliberately misleading, the 3% is PCT & SHA running costs & you’re saying this is the total management cost. There is a management/admin cost in running a hospital that you are not showing. You’re also not including the cost of all the quangos in the NHS. I am not Tory/Lib/Lab and I'm sick of the lies on all sides of this argument. If we don't cut the admin/management from the NHS it will end up like the Hospital in Yes Prime Minister.
The issue is the move of the supplyide of the NHS to the private sector, any willing provider and social enterprises. SEs are companies but there are constraints on them and they cannot be taken over as you suggest. It might be that they could sell their contracting asset although the tems of the contract with the DH would probably preclude tht. the present ones do. They cannot sell their estae assets as they are in an asset lock.
I am a little shocked that you say I was being rude. I am not. The fact is, SEs *are* private companies, and the public does not have a say in how they are run. So if a SE hospital decides to change the services they provide the public do not have a say. If a NHS hospital changes its services the public do have a say and politicians jump through hoops to make sure that local communities are properly served. An SE is just another business, politicians have no say over what they do.
@richardblogger There is no failure regime for FTs but there is a SE regulator and there is a failure regime of sorts. I agreee this is an unwelcome risk. But we must prey-in-aid fcts that are correct, or we devalue tha argument. The NHS Ammendment Act 2007 took away the right to challenge supplyside provider changes - Labour did it, not Lansley.
@Lilley324 - what an SE can do is sub-contract all of if its responsibilities.
The onus is on the SE to make a significant profit. There is no protection from an SE, say "NuPCT Limited" contracting all of its responsibilities to US Private care giant Kaiser Permanante or anyone else, for that matter.
No, this is not correct. It is not possible for a private company to take-over a social enterprise. That is why they are a flag of convenience for Ministers to shove NHS services off-shore. the rest it correct.
"The bottom line of this is the abolition of the NHS," Dr David Price of Edinburgh University argues. "It will remove the government's duty to provide a universal healthcare service." His colleague, Professor Allyson Pollock, believes it will lead to "full privatisation". Andy Burnham, who did Lansley's job until May, calls it the "dismantling of all public accountability and national standards in the NHS".
@Lilley324 My point was that private companies will take over services run by the SEs (that is why Monitor will have the power to use competition law, to "open up the market"). Over time, an SE hospital will find the services it provides will shrink as private companies take over. So while there may not be an asset transfer the effect will be the same.
@richardblogger eg the eye consultant in my local NHS/SE hospital may use competition law to open up the cataract clinic to his private company (same guy doing the work, but now he pockets the cash and pays the theatre staff). Monitor could force this through. It will be a private takeover of a service. Just extrapolate this...
@Lilley324 When some of the SEs start to fail (and they WILL fail, as do our NHS trusts from time to time), do you honestly believe that in the event our government wont make it possible for a private business to take over? You have to look further down the line than what they say now. The ConDems will hang us all out to dry for their rich paymasters
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janebusby 1 day ago
if the tories fuck up the nhs they are playing into the snp hands in scotland.the union will be split! people in scotland are sick of voting for labour just for the tories to take office and do things like this and the new welfare act,i voted lab my whole life but its time to go on our own. a free and independent scotland in 3 years thats what i hope will happen and im not the only one sick of the tories destroying OUR health service and making poor people poorer .you voted them in england
tony671 2 days ago
I BLAME GREEDY DOCTORS FOR THIS FUCK UP
chaosTUBEgmail 4 days ago
NHS NOT FOR SALE
chaosTUBEgmail 4 days ago
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NICK CLEGG..
The Royal Colleges OPPOSE the Health & Social Care Bill, the BMA OPPOSE the HSCB, the Faculty of Public Health OPPOSE the HSCB, 66% of NHS staff OPPOSE the HSCB, 170,000 petitioners OPPOSE the HSCB, the public OPPOSE the HSCB...
There's STILL time to grow a spine and FIGHT for your grass roots voters!
When this goes horribly wrong the Tories will blame YOU and their voice will be much louder than that of the Lib Dems.
janebusby 5 days ago
It's time for market-based healthcare.
HandsOffLibya 5 days ago
Tory scum
London2272 1 week ago
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WAKE UP UK!
Your NHS is being PRIVATISED.
No government will ever admit to privatising your NHS because it would be political suicide.
But that's EXACTLY what these plans are aimed at.
They will increasingly weaken the state and increasingly force the handover to private forces.
America has private healthcare. They spend 16% of GDP on health compared to the British 8.4%. They have a HIGHER infant mortality. They have a LOWER life expectancy. About 50 MILLION people can't get health insurance.
janebusby 2 weeks ago
Thatcher might have started the privatisation business on the NHS but Labour really put some welly into it - more and more of our NHS budget each year is going to pay off their PFI stupidity, short-term headlines about building hospitals in the 90s not mentioning it was on the never-never and at the cost of patient care today.
leftgrrl 2 weeks ago
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janebusby 3 weeks ago
The National Hell Service
Elderly patients were left hungry, thirsty and in pain
Mum, 74, died in ‘do not resuscitate’ note blunder
radicalsystems 3 weeks ago
this is the kind of blatant propaganda put out by murdoch press
radicalsystems 3 weeks ago
@radicalsystems Every day there 380,000 NHS outpatients, 1 million people see an NHS GP and 180,000 are in an NHS hospital. Poor care is never excusable, but we will find that after this disgraceful Bill is passed it will be harder for the NHS to give good care. The inadequate, inefficient for-profit private hospitals are incapable of delivering good care at that scale.
richardblogger 3 weeks ago 4
@richardblogger what bothers me is the murdoch press who are cleaerly doing all they can to descredit the NHS so that the wonder cure of privatisation will 'rescue' it,,,its a classic tory tactic..
radicalsystems 3 weeks ago
@radicalsystems Fine, use your money, and go private. Dividing the NHS up will not solve that kind of problem. In order to save money so the private businesses can make a profit corners will be cut and staffing levels will be reduced, leaving fewer staff to care for elderly patients. That is if they make it into hospital. Many will be refused treatment as their age will leave them with many co-morbidities meaning their treatment will be more complex, costly and less profitable.
FairySweetness 2 weeks ago
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janebusby 3 weeks ago
@Saberhagen19243 Competition is fine for football. People's health is too serious to play around with.
NicosNicosNicosNicos 1 month ago 5
@NicosNicosNicosNicos very true
radicalsystems 3 weeks ago
meh.
The next Labour government will just reverse it.
BasilFawlty4444 1 month ago
@BasilFawlty4444 Good. Yet another reason to vote for them
richardblogger 1 month ago
@richardblogger Not true, they won't they started the privatisation.
Rjimppy 1 month ago
@Rjimppy thatcher started the privatisation business..
radicalsystems 3 weeks ago
@richardblogger Not a hope, Labour don't reverse anything the tory vermin mess up, never have. The tories will bleat about "cost" if the NHS is repaired, but they've been opposed to it since its inception and have been tearing little chunks out of it whenever the electorate are stupid enough to give them power. In this case, they're doing the most damage to our services they've ever done, and they didn't even win the election, & have no mandate. they're rotten to the very core, and we're screwed
London2272 1 week ago
@BasilFawlty4444 Tell me what the last Labour government reversed.
antfmcman 2 weeks ago
@antfmcman I don't know about reversed, but for all their faults, the last Labour government did an awful lot of good for the NHS.
BasilFawlty4444 2 weeks ago
@BasilFawlty4444 Labour started this trend
benandbarnet 1 week ago
@BasilFawlty4444
Like they reversed all of Thatchers measures? *cough* anti-trade union laws *cough* Don't be so sure. The Tories reverse a lot of what Labour do, Labour deliberately keep Tory changes that are positive for big business. Voting Labour will not keep our NHS safe, the best way to keep the NHS public AND to improve it as a service is to fight for it with industrial action.
purplesnails22 1 week ago
@BasilFawlty4444 Only if people "reverse" the neoliberal labour leadership first.
NicosNicosNicosNicos 1 week ago
Hi figures were from the annual report of my local PCT. Its best if you look at the board papers of your PCT about March, April time and look at the finance report. Proportions will be similar to the ones I used.
richardblogger 1 month ago
To: richardblogger
Could you please send me a link or give me a reference for the statistics you use?
BasilFawlty4444 1 month ago
watch nxtgenuk's rap
watch?v=Dl1jPqqTdNo&context=C399865aADOEgsToPDskIdzCvYo39a41rAJW7M5JQj
Mac0901Games 2 months ago
@Saberhagen19243 the profit motive does not improve all the private companies do is increase costs and siphon out as much money as they can for profit
Sleck06 2 months ago
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Get rid of the NHS - fed up of paying all this money for incompetent Asian doctors - its outdated in this multicultural shit run nation.
angloengland 4 months ago
The government is destroying everything they touch....and by design too.
I've had it with being a slave to these scumbag demons. I have 2 brothers and a grandmother that all died due to negligence and greed for money in the health care industry.
It's not health care, it's death care and it must be stopped!
SmilingWood 5 months ago
@Saberhagen19243 Why is competition a good thing? Has the NHS been inefficient? Is it too expensive? No. The Wanless Report reported a two and a half billion UNDERSPEND during the period 1972-1999.
Windy22565 5 months ago
Very good and concise video
IA161 8 months ago
@Saberhagen19243 Believe me, is a bad thing. And is a bad thing because this Bill will increase the cost of health care, and Government will begin, in a few years, to cut service. Public hospitals, well run, are lot cheaper than private providers.
Emmets 8 months ago
@Saberhagen19243 Ah now this is the big question. The government is planning to bring in personal budgets which (in a time of austerity) will limit the care you can have for free. Many health policy experts say that this will lead to top-ups (which happen already, whatever you buy at a pharmacist is essentially a top-up), but as austerity bites the top-ups will be needed for more essential care. Look at the charges for dentistry: that's what personal budgets will lead to.
richardblogger 8 months ago 4
ANDREW LANSLEYS integrity has been BOUGHT & PAID FOR by CARE UK !
Here's another voter calling for Lansley to be SACKED!
janebusby 9 months ago 2
So we are getting all the negative of a socialist AND capitalist system. I am in favour of private health care system over the NHSbut this will not work.
sy2pie 9 months ago
On the 17th of May there is going to be a mass protest against the changes to the NHS, please invite your friends and spread the word, it needs to be huge if we want it to have an impact. OUR HEALTH SERVICE NOT FOR SALE – MARCH TO SAVE THE NHS Tuesday 17 May 5.30pm UCH, Gower St, WC1 (Euston/Euston Sq/Warren St)
spfanluke 10 months ago 9
The fact is that the NHS is failing thousands every year. Tony Bliar introduced a choice of privately funded treatment centres to help reduce the burdon on the NHS, wonder how many hypocrites on here would turn that choice down if they needed an op?????????
markyboy1704 11 months ago
@markyboy1704 The fact that someone can afford it doesn't mean they are scum enough to wish that those who can't afford it shouldn't have it. Has too much hypocrisy made you forget what the word means?
NicosNicosNicosNicos 1 month ago
The NHS is the single most important issue to me.
IF THE TORIES & LIB DEMS PUSH THROUGH THESE PLANS I WILL NEVER EVER VOTE FOR EITHER OF THEM EVER AGAIN.
No f*cking joke.
janebusby 11 months ago
@janebusby No one who cares an iota about the NHS (and wants to be politically consistent) could ever have voted for the tories, at any stage since the NHS was created.
NicosNicosNicosNicos 1 month ago
Greedy tories leave OUR NHS alone!
MEADOWBUTTERCUP 11 months ago 2
Running down the N.H.S to force people to take out an insurance policy-this is why there seems to be no profit on the surface.
THANKS Mr Cameron for fucking us!
BLUESGUITARMANIAC 11 months ago
Absolutely NOT!!!
BLUESGUITARMANIAC 11 months ago
If Social enterprises are not for profit then WHY are the private?
If they cannot generate profit then WHY are they unaccountable?
This has to be a falshood.
Somebody will be making money somewhere.
BLUESGUITARMANIAC 11 months ago
@BLUESGUITARMANIAC In the US half of the hospitals are social enterprises. And these hospitals have the highest paid executives. Yes, you are right, somebody has to make money somewhere.
richardblogger 11 months ago
@BLUESGUITARMANIAC they get money from govt contracts rather than joe public..
radicalsystems 3 weeks ago
As a long term sufferer of mental health problems-the one umbrella aspect of mental health services as they stand do NOT provide for my needs and they never did!
With PROFIT the motive foremost i expect this to get WORSE.
Nobody cares i have had the right care for me NOW.
What is it going to like when money comes FIRST?
The tories can FUCK OFF!!!
BLUESGUITARMANIAC 11 months ago
The Government involvement insetting up the commissioning GP consortia is ultimately about phasing in the complete privatisation od healthcare in the UK. The consortia will intially be ( non proft making but certainly surplus making) social enterprise organisations and they inturn will be completely privatised in 5 to 10 years. The universal dynamics of the NHS will go, then citizens health care will depend on how much money they have in their bank accounts
garriphillips 11 months ago
Tories-get your filthy, greedy, grasping, incompetent hands off OUR NHS!
MEADOWBUTTERCUP 11 months ago
socialist liberal party, facebook, give it a look please :)
WereNotFamousAnymore 1 year ago
@viru19c Yeah, it is ours.
richardblogger 1 year ago
Privatisation of (?OUR?) NHS ^
viru19c 1 year ago
Since you are so clever, I am surprised that you are not aware of the Framework for procuring External Support for Commissioners. This is a list (drawn up by the last government) of preferred private sector providers.
richardblogger 1 year ago
In this case, although the GPs could very well outsource the commisioning to private bodies the actual PCT would still be a public body and thus can be prevented from commisioning services from any private body that might not be representing the public interest.
Sorry to have gone on a bit but I just can't see this happening. Nice pie chart though. In reality what will happen is very little. It will still be the same staff delivering the same services just with a different label.
thelazer365 1 year ago
@thelazer365 while they may be the same staff, what you miss is that as a private company they have to make a profit (compnay law mandates this) this is profit that would have gone into healthcare in a fully public system.
Incidentally, please do make a video about the bank privatisation. I would be interested to see what figures you use.
richardblogger 1 year ago
I could have made a similar video regarding the ridiculous way that both the banks and railways were nationalised under the last government (the former by accident and the latter by stealth) and argue that we were soon to be living in a fascist state. The element of the argument that I would have convieniently missed is that we do in fact live in a democracy and this would have shown to be the case at the last election.
thelazer365 1 year ago
@thelazer365 - Oh? In which case where is the referendum or other democratic apparatus for preventing or reversing the process?
Where is the democratic mechanism for showing my support or lack thereof for a specific policy?
What is the democratic process by which we can choose the ingredients which make up the manifesto of either of the main parties or in anyway avoid the Red Car/Blue Car two party conundrum?
If everyone believes only two parties can win, people will choose the lesser evil.
calorus 1 year ago
This argument is about as wooly as the white paper on which it's based on. The video would appear to suggest that the public will lose control of NHS services and will be able to do little to stop that money lining the pockets of rich executives. I would like to know where these private companies are going to come from and how they are going to staff themselves without using staff already employed to provide NHS services and brainwash them into this evil 'private' way of working?
thelazer365 1 year ago
@thelazer365 - There is no brainwashing required, and the Private companies (or consortia) have already shown up: London Commissioning will be handled by KPMG, United Health UK, Healthskills, Morgan Cole, NAPC and co. the staff will continue to do their jobs moving money from A - B, it's just that B will have been selected by private companies with very different priorities to the PCTs.
calorus 1 year ago
NHS by the Tory's=No Health Service
Films4You 1 year ago 2
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Very interesting.
Accepting your point entirely, does it matter how the NHS care is delivered, so long as it is delivered free at the point of access?
Is the NHS the hospitals, the staff, etc
Or is it the care provided?
In the case of GPs, we already accept they are part of the NHS. Should they be nationalised?
blacktriangle 1 year ago
Very interesting.
Accepting your point entirely, does it matter how the NHS care is delivered, so long as it is delivered free at the point of access?
Is the NHS the hospitals, the staff, etc
Or is it the care provided?
In the case of GPs, we already accept they are part of the NHS. Should they be nationalised?
blacktriangle 1 year ago
@blacktriangle - It does matter because
a) if the NHS is weak and we own it, we fix it, finding the balance between quality and cost of care.
b) if the NHS is weak and we don't own it, the standard private sector argument is valid "You pay your, money you take your choice"
c) there is no way of carrying out an objective comparison. If prices rocket, or quality crumbles, the argument from the private sector will simply be "Market conditions, the NHS would have been worse"
calorus 1 year ago
@blacktriangle - GPs' private status is a shame, rather than a catastrophe. The lack of any nationalised or even SE comparison for GPs reinforces the point: we have currently one of the most cost efficient healthcare systems in the world.
We are about to take a huge gamble to try to make it more efficient than has ever been shown, even theoretically, to be possible.
We are not playing catchup: we're vying for the lead but are going to risk a swan dive off a cliff in the hope of edging ahead.
calorus 1 year ago
@calorus "Efficiency" is not the point. The NHS needs to be effective at protecting people's health. It's not a firm of accountants, its a health service.
NicosNicosNicosNicos 1 month ago
They (the elite) are robbing us blind of what our ancestors fought and built for us and selling it back to themselves!
HumanSayNo 1 year ago 2
Oh, and if you mention Rush Limbaugh over on the SA forums, you'll be banned. RUSH LIMBAUGH, RUSH LIMBAUGH, RUSH LIMBAUGH.
TinyFistPump 1 year ago
You left wing SA whacks don't know what you're talking about. Government doesn't know how to do anything right. So stop blaming the right and wake up. Government is not the answer.
TinyFistPump 1 year ago
Morbid Neo Liberalism stalks our political landscape courtesy if the Con Lib Dem coalition
garriphillips 1 year ago
@garriphillips That's not neo-liberalism, that's still statism. The government is even more involved in healthcare with these reforms because it is regulating both public and private hospitals.
erelpc 11 months ago
The Tories and Lib Dems quite simply do not have a mandate to privatise the NHS!!!
garriphillips 1 year ago
Excellent video. Very informative and enlightening!! The Tories are starting the complete privatisation and deregulization of the NHS. They do not have a mandate to do this and i hope more people see this video and are then inspired to join campaigns to stop them and the Lib Dems from doing this
garriphillips 1 year ago
Excellent video. It explained clearly and articulately what the Tories are about to embark upon, ie the complete privatisation and deregulization of health care in the UK. The Tories do have a mandate to privatise our NHS. More clearly devoloped educational and informative material like this video will hopefully spur people on to join campaigns that will stop the Tories!!!
garriphillips 1 year ago 2
This is a natural monopoly and allowing it to be for-profit is part of a tollbooth economy as described by economist Michael Hudson. People will pay more money for the same services, or lesser service, so as to make already wealthy people wealthier still.
lordhighexecutioner 1 year ago
NHS=No Health Service Thank you right-wing Labour
Films4You 1 year ago
The point you utterly fail to realise is that when in private hands, Market Forces are much more powerful... The public can vote with their feet (and money), this is what forces SE's/Private Companies to improve services.
You're talking about health here and quite frankly I want the best service I can get, I will go to the best Hospital I can, even if that means I have to travel.pay to/for it.
salesitv 1 year ago
@salesitv "The public can vote with their feet"
I'm sorry but this is absurd. How on earth can people "vote with there feet" with health care? are they to go on a disease ridden boycott? And as for going to the "best hospital" wouldn't that overcrowd and stretch the resources of those hospitals? and what about emergency care? are you seriously telling me that if you broke a bone or had a heart attack or had your water break you'd just hang on for a lengthy ride to a better scoring hospital?
CommissarRed 1 year ago
@salesitv
Obviously, everybody would like the best care they can get;
but what becomes of those who cannot pay?
Or are you alright Jack?
carysfaerie 1 year ago
OUR NHS, if it's ours then why do WE have no control over it, why do WE not get to decide what tests we should get when our often totally incompetent GPs fail to diagnose properly, and why do WE have an NHS that is effectively an outlet for multinational pharmaceutical giants.
To say its public is a joke, the GP service is private pretending to be public & GMC does not act in the public interest, it strikes off doctors who try to help patients, protects the criminal & works for pharma giants
failzzee 1 year ago
Privatisation by the back door.
grumpyoldgitt 1 year ago 2
Your figures are deliberately misleading, the 3% is PCT & SHA running costs & you’re saying this is the total management cost. There is a management/admin cost in running a hospital that you are not showing. You’re also not including the cost of all the quangos in the NHS. I am not Tory/Lib/Lab and I'm sick of the lies on all sides of this argument. If we don't cut the admin/management from the NHS it will end up like the Hospital in Yes Prime Minister.
TheTrevnan 1 year ago
No, and don't be rude.
The issue is the move of the supplyide of the NHS to the private sector, any willing provider and social enterprises. SEs are companies but there are constraints on them and they cannot be taken over as you suggest. It might be that they could sell their contracting asset although the tems of the contract with the DH would probably preclude tht. the present ones do. They cannot sell their estae assets as they are in an asset lock.
Lilley324 1 year ago
@Lilley324
I am a little shocked that you say I was being rude. I am not. The fact is, SEs *are* private companies, and the public does not have a say in how they are run. So if a SE hospital decides to change the services they provide the public do not have a say. If a NHS hospital changes its services the public do have a say and politicians jump through hoops to make sure that local communities are properly served. An SE is just another business, politicians have no say over what they do.
richardblogger 1 year ago 2
@richardblogger There is no failure regime for FTs but there is a SE regulator and there is a failure regime of sorts. I agreee this is an unwelcome risk. But we must prey-in-aid fcts that are correct, or we devalue tha argument. The NHS Ammendment Act 2007 took away the right to challenge supplyside provider changes - Labour did it, not Lansley.
Lilley324 1 year ago
@Lilley324 - what an SE can do is sub-contract all of if its responsibilities.
The onus is on the SE to make a significant profit. There is no protection from an SE, say "NuPCT Limited" contracting all of its responsibilities to US Private care giant Kaiser Permanante or anyone else, for that matter.
calorus 1 year ago
No, this is not correct. It is not possible for a private company to take-over a social enterprise. That is why they are a flag of convenience for Ministers to shove NHS services off-shore. the rest it correct.
Lilley324 1 year ago
@Lilley324 Blinkered, much.
"The bottom line of this is the abolition of the NHS," Dr David Price of Edinburgh University argues. "It will remove the government's duty to provide a universal healthcare service." His colleague, Professor Allyson Pollock, believes it will lead to "full privatisation". Andy Burnham, who did Lansley's job until May, calls it the "dismantling of all public accountability and national standards in the NHS".
hardworkuk 1 year ago
@Lilley324 My point was that private companies will take over services run by the SEs (that is why Monitor will have the power to use competition law, to "open up the market"). Over time, an SE hospital will find the services it provides will shrink as private companies take over. So while there may not be an asset transfer the effect will be the same.
richardblogger 1 year ago
@richardblogger eg the eye consultant in my local NHS/SE hospital may use competition law to open up the cataract clinic to his private company (same guy doing the work, but now he pockets the cash and pays the theatre staff). Monitor could force this through. It will be a private takeover of a service. Just extrapolate this...
richardblogger 1 year ago
@Lilley324 When some of the SEs start to fail (and they WILL fail, as do our NHS trusts from time to time), do you honestly believe that in the event our government wont make it possible for a private business to take over? You have to look further down the line than what they say now. The ConDems will hang us all out to dry for their rich paymasters
PHRowe 1 year ago