The whole situation of the Titanic had to be questioned. The captain and crew had been charged with irresponsibility on that tragedy. Besides that they were sailing under antiquated sailing rules. Which all new regulations were born from the event.
@ligreekguy Actually Collapsible D only had a capacity of 47, as a collapsible. The standard boats had 'floating' capacity of 65, and the two emergency boats (No. 1 and No. 2) had a capacity of 40. Many of the officers and crew were under the impression that a lifeboat with a floating capacity of 65 could only be safely lowered with about 30 people in them, and that more people could be taken in from the lower gangways after the boat had reached the water.
Tim Curry sneaking upon a lifeboat dressed as a woman? are you kidding me? Im suprised they didnt put him in a glittering Edwardian evening gown , jewels and a wig with a elegant spray of egret feathers. Remember His vaugely edwardian getup in The Rocky Horror picture show? they even had him floating around on a Titanic life preserverin the floorshow scene. I wonder if this was a wierd homage to Dr Frankenfurter? lol
@xxzerawriotxx Well he would need a better disguise and I do not think the officers would think that he is a woman in a high class dress the outfit he wears in this covers his whole body better to get in a boat.
@e1r2i3n It is an old sailing custom that predated 1912. After the Titanic on April12th of that year there was hearing in England that reviewed how this disaster was handled. It was learned that things that night were mismanaged. Truth was that the etiquette in sail and handling these such disasters needed to change. So that is why this custom is seen as odd today. This custom is now and evermore outdated our times and standards.
When Mrs. Ryerson gets into the boat, is she not at least wondering if the daughter of her husband's boss is safe? Mr. Ryerson worked in the Chicago law firm of the father of Ann Isham, the latter also a passenger on the ship. She and the Ryersons undoubtedly knew each other, yet Ann was one of the few First Class women to perish. Even more bizarre was that none of the survivors remembered even seeing her anywhere. One theory is that she simply went back to bed, thinking that nothing was wrong.
Another theory is that Ann would not leave her dog or something so she stayed with the dog but this story is not very good one of my favorite first class passengers Archibald Graice had gathered so much information about first class passengers and crew on Titanic yet he has not one bit of information on Isham!
But Mrs. Thayer and some other women visited a grieving Mrs. Ryerson in her cabin. Yet, Ann did not? Was there a rift between Ann and the Ryersons, or was Ann basically anti-social? Or maybe she did visit Mrs. Ryerson, but the latter simply did not wish to talk about her after she died. The story of the dog is not as credible as Ann telling the steward that she was going back to bed, although the crew was adamant about dragging everyone up to the deck, especially First Class.
@ligreekguy I would be very fightened to wake up and find my room full of water. Which is probrably how Ann found it if she woke up. The passengers really locked in there own fates because there was much more room no the lifeboats for example the Astors for some time went to the gym before joining there friends at boat 4.
@ligreekguy She was not seen during the entire ship? Well did she even board she had to be seen by a crewman waiting at the gangway did anyone see her as she went to her room. There was said to be no breakfest room service for even frst class passengers except for tea that the steward would bring in she had to have breakfest. Maybe she was like Mrs. Ryerson she stayed in her cabin for most the voyage because of the tragedy maybe Ann had a tragedy but even during the sinking Ryerson left her room
Well, Colonel Gracie, whose cabin was right next to Ann's, reported never seeing her, and everyone knows how much of a busybody Gracie could be. I think Ann was just one of those people who never stood out in a group, and was sort of easy to ignore or overlook. Again, there is the unproven account of the woman who refused to be rescued without her Great Dane, and was later seen floating dead in the water with her arms around the dog. Some say this was Ann, but no proof exists
@ligreekguy In truth she probrably was no Madeline Astor or Molly Brown who probrably could stand out in a group much more than Ann could but then again if she did socialize people they would report but if she like talking to much more women whos accounts from the sinking were not as known as taken as the men could mean she could had just been lost as any regular high socialite.
I have long felt sorry for Ann, as she has been overshadowed by the other First Class women who perished, and also very curious about her as a result of her mysterious nature. There is a memorial erected to her by her family in Vermont (interesting, because Ann was from Chicago, and had been living in both Paris and New York). Did the Ishams have a home in Vermont? Ann's father started a law firm with Abraham Lincoln's son, and that firm is still around today!
@ligreekguy Ann Isham is really a passenger of mystery who was onboard if she was not seen during the sinking she must have been the most confident passenger to think that the Titanic was unsinkable or maybe she just slept through the steward knockings on her door. Then again se could had blended in with the cords but if the ship was sinking she did have a problem like Mrs. Allison and did not have a husband who she did not want to leave like Mrs. Straus. Maybe she just felt guilty taking a spot
Perhaps, but as I say elsewhere, she could have been a lonely woman with a subtle death wish. She was unmarried, middle aged, and sharing time at the residences of her married sister in Paris and brother in New York. Edith Evans really did not heroically give up the last seat in the last lifeboat either, as there were 26 seats left in Collapsible D. She appears to have simply lost the will to enter a lifeboat.
@ligreekguy Evans is one of those people that I say should had survived the bottom line she wanted to get in a lifeboat and should have but the officer would not let her in thinking the boat was full enough to be lowered down (remember the crew would not lower the boats at maximum capacity because they thought they would buckle).
Perhaps, but what about some of the other boats, such as Number 11, which had seventy passengers? When that did not buckle, could not the crew understand that the risks were minimal? And since Collapsible D could hold seventy people, and there were only forty four passengers inside, could one more woman really cause it to buckle?
@ligreekguy The crew made had been in to much of a rush to lower boats and they may feel ordering the passengers to get the question is if the crew stated the ship was sinking we need everyone in the lifeboats immeditely would that save more lives? Cause panic? Would the first class be less curious and more alarmed ni the beginning? I think the crew were in such a rush later that they did not do a count of ho many entered they just lowered it when they fell like it.
@ligreekguy I know it has been a while but I wanted to ask you this. I personally believe that even if the Titanic had 48 lifeboats which should have been how much it should have carried I think it would had only saved an extra minimal ammount of people. Collapsibles A & B did not even get lowered off but were floated off because the water reached the boat deck. Basically even if there was enough of boats they would had not been all lowered within the 2 hours.
However, Annie Funk, a Second Class passenger who was also a missionary in India, was reported to have given up her seat to a woman whose child was already in a lifeboat. However, there were so many other seats in available boats for women to enter if they chose, at least the ones from First and Second Class. It is possible that Annie felt the same need to remain aboard the ship as did the four clergymen who chose to die.
@ligreekguy It really is the fault of the crew to not lower these boats to their full capacity combined with the fact of the passengers descisions speicifically first and second class because third had a hard time getting to the boats. There are many reasons for the boats not to be lowered with maximum capacity the crew thought they would buckle, Lightoller only allowed women and children and as few crew as possible, and the passengers Boat 7 first to leave only carried 18 people.
There was also Boat 1, which had only twelve people (two women, seven crew members, three male passengers). The two women were Lady Duff Gordon and her maid, and one of the male passengers was Sir Cosmo Duff Gordon.
@ligreekguy To me keeping Boat 1 up and waiting until it left at a reasonable capacity (officers did not lower them at maximum capacity) would had changed the survivors fates that got on collapsibles A, B, and C. As the ship sank all lifeboats were lowered A and B were made sure to be the last but as we know these two were not succesfully lowered as the water finally reached the boat deck would there be less surviviors? What about C how close would the water be to the boat deck when it was sent.
Boat 4, the second to the last to leave the ship (1:55 AM, 25 minutes before the sinking) was known as the "rich ladies' boat". It had actually been set aside and reserved for the wealthier First Class women and their maids: Mrs. Astor, Ryerson, Thayer, Widener, etc. Not any woman was allowed in until it was certain that these women were already in the boat. A lot of people think that Mrs. Astor, etc. barely escaped, but that was not true. The boat was being held for these rich women all along.
@ligreekguy However you must know that these first class passengers were very angry it was said they were suppose to be first to leave the ship becuase they got to what was suppose to be the first boat to be lowered Captain Smith ordered 4 to be lowered to the Promeande deck becuase he thought the windows were open but instead he was mistekn for the olympic so Lightoller all confused just left it there until the end.
Interesting! But, good God, the captain could not tell the difference between the Olympic and the Titanic? People's lives were in the hands of this man? What was he thinking? Really and truly, was he possibly suffering from an early form of dementia or Alzheimer's? I have read so many accounts of Smith often being observed in a dreamlike or absentminded state. Who knows?
@ligreekguy Smith did bot act in such a leader's place officers had go to him and ask should we put people in the boats should we fire rockets. I think Captain Smith was not thinking a disaster could happen to the Titanic because it was his last voyage until retirement and the Titanic was called Unsinkable.
I know that this was his last voyage, and like a lot of people who are about to retire, perhaps he was less attentive toward his duties than when he was younger. No excuse, if that is the case, particularly since his crew seemed to know more than he did.
@ligreekguy Lifeboat 4 wasn't reserved for anyone! It was going to be lowered first, hence all the first class women who were in it, but the launching was delayed due to some technical mishaps. The first class passengers assigned to the boat stood by it until 1:55, when they could finally board and the boat was launched only 12 feet into the water. If the boat was "reserved" for the most "important" passengers, why on earth would the Officers wait for more than an hour before launching it?!
Well, some accounts say that Boat 4 was never in danger of going down with the ship, and that the crew knew just when to launch it. They were supposedly shepherding people away from Boat 4 while the wealthy wives were told to wait alongside it. Evidently, they were waiting to see if any other wealthy women were coming along, as decorum dictated that they should travel together, and not with Second or Third Class passengers.
@emlodik Actually sir you do not seem to understand proper ship policy the lifeboats on board a ship are reserved for the people on board the ship in case of a disaster so they are reserved for people on the ship however they lifeboats are not reserved for people on land unless they board the ship. Once the people onboard the ship leave it the lifeboats are not reserved for them as I said the lifeboats are reserved for the people on board the ship in case of a disaster.
I have no idea, but he probably even believes that Third Class passengers were not purposely kept below the decks for much of the time! I think he is writing revisionist history here!
@ligreekguy He is wirting Titanic fan fiction probrably either that or he is from an alternate universe and something on titanic happened differently!
Some inaccuracies here in terms of the order that the women were getting into the lifeboats. In the movie, Alice Cleaver escapes first, then Molly Brown, then Mrs. Straus' maid (Mrs. Straus refused to get in). Molly actually got away very early, the second boat to be exact. Then came Mrs. Straus' maid in another boat, and somewhat considerably later, Alice Cleaver with baby Trevor. Also, Ismay got away a couple of boats earlier than Mrs. Astor (Mrs. Astor escaped in the second to the last boat!)
@ligreekguy Mrs. Asotr and her maid were the first charatcers to leave the ship in this movie I think! Very inaccurate but I somewhat agree with her leaving first in a certain way because the first class were many first to leave the ship however the scene is very inaccurate boat 4 is one of the first to leave in this movie then after the Astors the Ryersons come and instead of Arthur Ryerson it is Emily who orders her son to be in then the Straus episode takes place at boat 4!
The fictional character, Mrs. Paradine, leaves in Boat 4, and that is the same boat Mrs. Astor and Mrs. Ryerson were in. The rapist-transvestite is also in that boat, yet in the 1953 version (Barbara Stanwyck), he is in Molly Brown's boat! (Though Molly has a fictional name in that version). Mrs. Straus turned down a chance to get into Boat 8, which left much earlier than Boat 4.
One other oddity about the man posing as a woman. For years, Third Class passenger Daniel Buckley was unfairly thought of as that man (he was slandered just like Alice Cleaver). In the Barbara Stanwyck version of 1953, the cross dresser is a fictional First Class passenger, and in the 1996 made for TV movie, he is a member of the crew (and also a rapist). Yikes!
@ligreekguy Yeah well I guess there was raptist First class Steward, a first class man who is a coward, then Mr. Buckely who all fought it was a good idea and then went it a boat together lol or maybe from 1953-1996 Hollywood was crazy about cross dressers. Ever heard of Titanic Thompson thisd man did disguise himself as woman got on a lifeboat and after the disaster his real name Alvon Thompson collected insurance policies of Titanic's victims whome he claimed as relatives!
But is this just an urban legend? There was never a passenger named Alvon Thompson, and to my knowledge, the whole cross dressing thing was also a myth? It was just like the legendary Frank Tower (an oiler by trade: get the connection? Tower? Oiler?) This man supposedly swam away (literally SWAM away) from the Titanic in 1912, the Empress of Ireland in 1914 and the Lusitania in 1915. But there never was such a man.
@ligreekguy See I have a book on crimes there is a chapter called Strange but true a man named Alvon Clarence Thompson sneaked in a boat disguised as a woman and then when he got to New York collected insurance money from victims hwo he claims is victimsbut if you check the three classes and the three crew catorgories you don't find him. But here odd crime story in 1983 skeleton of a woman was found frightened by the discovery a man claims he killed his wife but the skeleton was 1,770 yars old!
I do not think Mr. Straus was given the option of entering a lifeboat with his wife because of his age. Would not one think that he would have chosen to get into the boat if his wife refused to leave without him? Or would the crew not have made him get into the boat in order to save his wife?
@moviegoer1002 The "He's only 13!" thing is included in the movie because the boy was an actual passenger. When Mrs. W. Carter heard this, she took off her hat and covered her son's (Billy Jr's) face with it, to smuggle him onto the same lifeboat along with her and her daughter, knowing that the loading-officer would otherwise split up the family.
@DaniHarmerFan1983 Yeah I remeber the boy was 1st class passenger John Ryerson after his mother Emily Ryersno got in a boat he was about to go in but officer Lightoller said he could not go but John's father Arthur said he was only 13 and hew was allowed in Arthur Ryerson died but his son and wife did not
What was really nasty on the part of Lightoller was that Mrs. Ryerson had just lost her only other son in a car accident. In fact, the family was just returning from claiming his body since he had been killed in Paris. (The body of course was being transported back to America on a different ship). And it was Mr. Ryerson, not his wife, who ordered Lightoller to let the boy into the boat. "No more boys!", said Lightoller. I think he had some sort of emotional or sexual hangup.
@ligreekguy Mrs. Ryerson lost her son in a car accident then her only other son John Ryerson on the Titanic she would have just have extreme emotional problems. She lost one son in a car crash then her other son John with husband Arthur would get lost on the Titanic for me that would be to much to take. Still it was bad enough she losses a son and a husband poor Mrs. Ryerson.
They really should have let Mr. Ryerson into the boat. What troubles me is all these men with wives and children going down with the ship, and these unmarried old ladies surviving? And to think that Lightoller would survive! (Though, in fairness, he did technically go down with the ship, but was lucky enough to get into one of the collapsibles sliding off as it sank). I think of Third Class passenger Rosa Abbott who lost her two sons because they would not let HER 13 year old in.
@ligreekguy My Eyewtiness book on Titanic says boat 4 left with 35 women and children, 1 man, and 4 crew you got 40 people when there was room for 65 Mr. Astor, Ryerson, Thayer, Widener and his son etc. Also maybe these men when they figured out there were not enough boats wer very noble and many second and first class men would let the women and then third class men go first. What pains me is that Murdoch let men and women and children in his boats but Lightoller only women and children n crew.
Yes, Murdoch was the one who let Lawrence Beesley into a boat, the Second Class passenger who would later write a widely read account of the sinking. Part of the problem was that though there were plenty of seats for men (evidently there were no women and children around at the time), the question was which men would be allowed in? Rather than risk a run on the boats by panic stricken men, the decision was made to let none of them in. Even Murdoch did this toward the end.
@ligreekguy It is quite intresting however in the beggining of the sinking the calm and cool first class and second class passengers were allowed in the boats boat 7 when it left carried 12 women 13 men and 3 crew all the passengers were first class but still you have many couples such as Sir Cosmo Duff Gordon and Lady Gordon who did escape becuase they were on Murdoch's side while on Lightoller's side all of the men of New York and Philidelphia society die only Mr. Carter who got on colapsibleC
Ah yes, Mr. Carter! I believe he is the only husband who got into a lifeboat BEFORE his wife and children! He got into Collapsible C (ironically the same boat occupied by Ismay) while Mrs. Carter and her children got into the next boat, Number 4. I do believe Mr. Carter had no idea where his family was when he got into C, and made no special attempt to find them. (I think of the poor Allisons looking for Trevor here). Later on, the Carters were divorced. Coincidence?
@ligreekguy I belive Carter did the right thing we need at least one man from Philidelphia and New York City Socitey to survive. With the other Carters getting into boat 4 I think Lucile Carter knew her husband could look after himself however how did she figure out he left before her that is what I want to know.
I happen to be one of those people who think that any man had the right to look after himself, after all, men want to live as well. My chief criticism of Ismay is that he was the one who urged Smith to attempt to beat the speed record as well as to travel the dangerous northern route. Perhaps Carter was aware that his wife and children already had reserved seats in Boat 4 (the rich ladies' boat), so I am more willing to forgive him. But, yes, men had the right to live as well
@ligreekguy However many men acted differently when the ship was sinking the First class and second class men (some) for example were very noble and would let all women and children as well as thrid class men go before them when it was clear there were not enough boats. I love the scene in part 13 where all the first class men were in the smoking roo and they are having there last cigars and drinks kowing it is the end it would have been nice but it never happened like Asotr went to save his dog
@ligreekguy I want you to see this video it says there was some conspiracy of the Titanic Unfastened coins: titanic conapiracy if you don't see it you can comment me and i will send a message to you with the video I hate so I am rallying Titanic fans to gether to insult this guy with comment and hate mail for this guy on his website in the info people belive him!
@ligreekguy What is very intresting is that boat 4 was said to be the first to leave in that confusion with Smith andLightoller on lowering the boat to a-deck Lightoller left it until near the end however if it was lowered first this could very much effect the chances for the rich men like Astor and Ryerson on them having still a full hour and a half to get to a boat however this could effect other 3rd class women who had one last chance to survive and got on 4
@ligreekguy Some people criticize Ismay for getting in collapsible C but he had the right idea see Ismay probrably did not know this but he was in charge of loading and lowering C! He then went to A-deck to bring more people up to the boat deck to collapsible C he allowed Women and Children but then would allow men at C but when he went down to A-deck Cheif Purser McElroy thinking Ismay was in charge but now with him leaving he was in charge of lowering C as Ismay saw it being lowere he got on
Incidentally, that is yet another urban legend about the Titanic: Murdoch committing suicide in front of everybody after shooting a panic stricken male passenger trying to force his way into a boat. By the end, I suppose there were no more women and children to be placed in the boats: most of Third Class was kept downstairs until it was too late, while in First and Second Class, it was mostly women who refused to leave their husbands.
@ligreekguy However only 4 1st s women died by the time the last few lifeboats were about to leave it was clear to many 1st and 2nd class men knew men there were not enough boats so many of them were noble letting all Women and Children along with 3rd class men I love the scene in part 13 or 14 where the first class men have drinks in cigars in the smoking room knowing this is the end but it never happened only a few men were in the smoking room Astor went to save his dog Kitty in the kennels.
@DaniHarmerFan1983 That is becuase it actually hapened John Ryerson from first class was 13 he was not allowed in the boats by Lightoller but his father Arthur said he was 13 and he was alowed in with his mother Emily Ryerson
i think that titanic/luisitania disaster was like the 9/11 of the first 20 century half
XOPAUXO 1 month ago
so did all the life boats get off in the real thing
NBAKaizer 1 month ago
@NBAKaizer I think only 13 of the 16 lifeboats were recovered.
RpGfreak901 1 month ago
is tim curry nice in person?
LegendOFood 2 months ago
The whole situation of the Titanic had to be questioned. The captain and crew had been charged with irresponsibility on that tragedy. Besides that they were sailing under antiquated sailing rules. Which all new regulations were born from the event.
malisemary1 3 months ago
7:44 subtle
littlemissmoo14 3 months ago
i think the one playing lightoller is in the 97 one as a reg officer
becca5star 4 months ago
So sexist.
IIproductionsII 4 months ago
its molly brown!!!
1lola1javiercool 4 months ago
the real bruce ismay wasn't like that, he only went on collapsible C after helping women on. never pushed and shoved
hitlersucks101 6 months ago
se hubieran escapado los de tercera clase por donde el ladron joven bajo por ahi no lo creen?? todos
refazob22 6 months ago 2
3:02 that's sweet... but it cost them
westkid 7 months ago
good one
chanakya313 7 months ago
Ismay was such a coward
TravisDrago 9 months ago
hey i wonder, if this is the one made in 1996, where can we find the 1997 one?
Prudencecpw 9 months ago
@ligreekguy Actually Collapsible D only had a capacity of 47, as a collapsible. The standard boats had 'floating' capacity of 65, and the two emergency boats (No. 1 and No. 2) had a capacity of 40. Many of the officers and crew were under the impression that a lifeboat with a floating capacity of 65 could only be safely lowered with about 30 people in them, and that more people could be taken in from the lower gangways after the boat had reached the water.
Amy0Rebecca 10 months ago
The part with the Strauss' always makes me sad. "As we have lived together, so shall we die together."
Resimaster 10 months ago
just wait til 2:30 lol
MrInsects 11 months ago
Tim Curry sneaking upon a lifeboat dressed as a woman? are you kidding me? Im suprised they didnt put him in a glittering Edwardian evening gown , jewels and a wig with a elegant spray of egret feathers. Remember His vaugely edwardian getup in The Rocky Horror picture show? they even had him floating around on a Titanic life preserverin the floorshow scene. I wonder if this was a wierd homage to Dr Frankenfurter? lol
xxzerawriotxx 1 year ago
@xxzerawriotxx Well he would need a better disguise and I do not think the officers would think that he is a woman in a high class dress the outfit he wears in this covers his whole body better to get in a boat.
1Historygenius 1 year ago
this is much better than titanic 1997
papiocutie 1 year ago
christians are soo rude
Xcoming2 1 year ago
christians are soo rude
Xcoming2 1 year ago
may i ask why were they only allowing women?
e1r2i3n 1 year ago
@e1r2i3n It is an old sailing custom that predated 1912. After the Titanic on April12th of that year there was hearing in England that reviewed how this disaster was handled. It was learned that things that night were mismanaged. Truth was that the etiquette in sail and handling these such disasters needed to change. So that is why this custom is seen as odd today. This custom is now and evermore outdated our times and standards.
malisemary1 1 year ago
oh jeez thank god for James Cameron.
desireelu 1 year ago
You know what i think i like this version of the titanic
UglyKendallBtr1 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
WHEN `JACK` punched him OMG his face LMAO. - sorry inoe its not a reason to laugh but its really funny! +& RIP ishowww my respect - LUKE
ILarveYheww 1 year ago
@ILarveYheww, IT'S JAIME YOU IDIOT. YOU ARE SO STUPID.
moviegoer1002 1 year ago 23
@moviYOUR MEAN HOW U LIKE THAT
rockergal56783 1 year ago
@moviegoer1002 ur a stupid faggot that doesnt deserve any subscribers douche
writeandsend 1 year ago
@writeandsend did not stop you from watching his videos
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@moviegoer1002 why are you so judge mental is not like we no everything jeezz
coolgirls1603 1 year ago
@coolgirls1603 Yeah because normally in a movie you do not know a main character's name wow.
1Historygenius 1 year ago
where can i watch the 1997 version of this movie? does anyone know?
SuperTHlove 1 year ago
@SuperTHlove type in titanic 1997 movie ex
mrailg20 1 year ago
and wheres brad pitt????^^
SchwarzundWeis 1 year ago
i hate that tim curry asshole!!!
CorruptedCorpseSaku 1 year ago
You know where Simon Gets hit by an oar, they shouldn't have done that. It should have been he goes to jail when they arrive in New York
1BoyAwesome 1 year ago
That guy is a devil STUPID ASHOLEE
yichen100 1 year ago
7:44
Tim Curry escaping disguised as a woman. I guess he IS a sweet transvestite from transsexual Transylvania.
JustPhilNY 1 year ago 34
@JustPhilNY A man did actually get into a lifeboat dressed as a woman, so this bit is true even though its far fetched
louisewhomackable 8 months ago
When Mrs. Ryerson gets into the boat, is she not at least wondering if the daughter of her husband's boss is safe? Mr. Ryerson worked in the Chicago law firm of the father of Ann Isham, the latter also a passenger on the ship. She and the Ryersons undoubtedly knew each other, yet Ann was one of the few First Class women to perish. Even more bizarre was that none of the survivors remembered even seeing her anywhere. One theory is that she simply went back to bed, thinking that nothing was wrong.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
Another theory is that Ann would not leave her dog or something so she stayed with the dog but this story is not very good one of my favorite first class passengers Archibald Graice had gathered so much information about first class passengers and crew on Titanic yet he has not one bit of information on Isham!
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
But Mrs. Thayer and some other women visited a grieving Mrs. Ryerson in her cabin. Yet, Ann did not? Was there a rift between Ann and the Ryersons, or was Ann basically anti-social? Or maybe she did visit Mrs. Ryerson, but the latter simply did not wish to talk about her after she died. The story of the dog is not as credible as Ann telling the steward that she was going back to bed, although the crew was adamant about dragging everyone up to the deck, especially First Class.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy I would be very fightened to wake up and find my room full of water. Which is probrably how Ann found it if she woke up. The passengers really locked in there own fates because there was much more room no the lifeboats for example the Astors for some time went to the gym before joining there friends at boat 4.
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
The fact that Ann was seen by absolutely no one, however, is bizarre. Unless she was a complete recluse, or was ill for much of the trip?
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy She was not seen during the entire ship? Well did she even board she had to be seen by a crewman waiting at the gangway did anyone see her as she went to her room. There was said to be no breakfest room service for even frst class passengers except for tea that the steward would bring in she had to have breakfest. Maybe she was like Mrs. Ryerson she stayed in her cabin for most the voyage because of the tragedy maybe Ann had a tragedy but even during the sinking Ryerson left her room
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
Well, Colonel Gracie, whose cabin was right next to Ann's, reported never seeing her, and everyone knows how much of a busybody Gracie could be. I think Ann was just one of those people who never stood out in a group, and was sort of easy to ignore or overlook. Again, there is the unproven account of the woman who refused to be rescued without her Great Dane, and was later seen floating dead in the water with her arms around the dog. Some say this was Ann, but no proof exists
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy In truth she probrably was no Madeline Astor or Molly Brown who probrably could stand out in a group much more than Ann could but then again if she did socialize people they would report but if she like talking to much more women whos accounts from the sinking were not as known as taken as the men could mean she could had just been lost as any regular high socialite.
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
I have long felt sorry for Ann, as she has been overshadowed by the other First Class women who perished, and also very curious about her as a result of her mysterious nature. There is a memorial erected to her by her family in Vermont (interesting, because Ann was from Chicago, and had been living in both Paris and New York). Did the Ishams have a home in Vermont? Ann's father started a law firm with Abraham Lincoln's son, and that firm is still around today!
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy Ann Isham is really a passenger of mystery who was onboard if she was not seen during the sinking she must have been the most confident passenger to think that the Titanic was unsinkable or maybe she just slept through the steward knockings on her door. Then again se could had blended in with the cords but if the ship was sinking she did have a problem like Mrs. Allison and did not have a husband who she did not want to leave like Mrs. Straus. Maybe she just felt guilty taking a spot
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
Perhaps, but as I say elsewhere, she could have been a lonely woman with a subtle death wish. She was unmarried, middle aged, and sharing time at the residences of her married sister in Paris and brother in New York. Edith Evans really did not heroically give up the last seat in the last lifeboat either, as there were 26 seats left in Collapsible D. She appears to have simply lost the will to enter a lifeboat.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy Evans is one of those people that I say should had survived the bottom line she wanted to get in a lifeboat and should have but the officer would not let her in thinking the boat was full enough to be lowered down (remember the crew would not lower the boats at maximum capacity because they thought they would buckle).
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
Perhaps, but what about some of the other boats, such as Number 11, which had seventy passengers? When that did not buckle, could not the crew understand that the risks were minimal? And since Collapsible D could hold seventy people, and there were only forty four passengers inside, could one more woman really cause it to buckle?
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy The crew made had been in to much of a rush to lower boats and they may feel ordering the passengers to get the question is if the crew stated the ship was sinking we need everyone in the lifeboats immeditely would that save more lives? Cause panic? Would the first class be less curious and more alarmed ni the beginning? I think the crew were in such a rush later that they did not do a count of ho many entered they just lowered it when they fell like it.
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@ligreekguy I know it has been a while but I wanted to ask you this. I personally believe that even if the Titanic had 48 lifeboats which should have been how much it should have carried I think it would had only saved an extra minimal ammount of people. Collapsibles A & B did not even get lowered off but were floated off because the water reached the boat deck. Basically even if there was enough of boats they would had not been all lowered within the 2 hours.
1Historygenius 7 months ago
@1Historygenius
However, Annie Funk, a Second Class passenger who was also a missionary in India, was reported to have given up her seat to a woman whose child was already in a lifeboat. However, there were so many other seats in available boats for women to enter if they chose, at least the ones from First and Second Class. It is possible that Annie felt the same need to remain aboard the ship as did the four clergymen who chose to die.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy It really is the fault of the crew to not lower these boats to their full capacity combined with the fact of the passengers descisions speicifically first and second class because third had a hard time getting to the boats. There are many reasons for the boats not to be lowered with maximum capacity the crew thought they would buckle, Lightoller only allowed women and children and as few crew as possible, and the passengers Boat 7 first to leave only carried 18 people.
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
There was also Boat 1, which had only twelve people (two women, seven crew members, three male passengers). The two women were Lady Duff Gordon and her maid, and one of the male passengers was Sir Cosmo Duff Gordon.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy To me keeping Boat 1 up and waiting until it left at a reasonable capacity (officers did not lower them at maximum capacity) would had changed the survivors fates that got on collapsibles A, B, and C. As the ship sank all lifeboats were lowered A and B were made sure to be the last but as we know these two were not succesfully lowered as the water finally reached the boat deck would there be less surviviors? What about C how close would the water be to the boat deck when it was sent.
1Historygenius 1 year ago
Boat 4, the second to the last to leave the ship (1:55 AM, 25 minutes before the sinking) was known as the "rich ladies' boat". It had actually been set aside and reserved for the wealthier First Class women and their maids: Mrs. Astor, Ryerson, Thayer, Widener, etc. Not any woman was allowed in until it was certain that these women were already in the boat. A lot of people think that Mrs. Astor, etc. barely escaped, but that was not true. The boat was being held for these rich women all along.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy However you must know that these first class passengers were very angry it was said they were suppose to be first to leave the ship becuase they got to what was suppose to be the first boat to be lowered Captain Smith ordered 4 to be lowered to the Promeande deck becuase he thought the windows were open but instead he was mistekn for the olympic so Lightoller all confused just left it there until the end.
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@ligreekguy
Interesting! But, good God, the captain could not tell the difference between the Olympic and the Titanic? People's lives were in the hands of this man? What was he thinking? Really and truly, was he possibly suffering from an early form of dementia or Alzheimer's? I have read so many accounts of Smith often being observed in a dreamlike or absentminded state. Who knows?
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy Smith did bot act in such a leader's place officers had go to him and ask should we put people in the boats should we fire rockets. I think Captain Smith was not thinking a disaster could happen to the Titanic because it was his last voyage until retirement and the Titanic was called Unsinkable.
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
I know that this was his last voyage, and like a lot of people who are about to retire, perhaps he was less attentive toward his duties than when he was younger. No excuse, if that is the case, particularly since his crew seemed to know more than he did.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy And, naturally, you pulled that story out of your ass, right?
emlodik 1 year ago
@emlodik
Whoa! What??????
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy Lifeboat 4 wasn't reserved for anyone! It was going to be lowered first, hence all the first class women who were in it, but the launching was delayed due to some technical mishaps. The first class passengers assigned to the boat stood by it until 1:55, when they could finally board and the boat was launched only 12 feet into the water. If the boat was "reserved" for the most "important" passengers, why on earth would the Officers wait for more than an hour before launching it?!
emlodik 1 year ago
@emlodik
Well, some accounts say that Boat 4 was never in danger of going down with the ship, and that the crew knew just when to launch it. They were supposedly shepherding people away from Boat 4 while the wealthy wives were told to wait alongside it. Evidently, they were waiting to see if any other wealthy women were coming along, as decorum dictated that they should travel together, and not with Second or Third Class passengers.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@emlodik Actually sir you do not seem to understand proper ship policy the lifeboats on board a ship are reserved for the people on board the ship in case of a disaster so they are reserved for people on the ship however they lifeboats are not reserved for people on land unless they board the ship. Once the people onboard the ship leave it the lifeboats are not reserved for them as I said the lifeboats are reserved for the people on board the ship in case of a disaster.
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@ligreekguy what is emlodik on about he seems a little out of his world.
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
I have no idea, but he probably even believes that Third Class passengers were not purposely kept below the decks for much of the time! I think he is writing revisionist history here!
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy He is wirting Titanic fan fiction probrably either that or he is from an alternate universe and something on titanic happened differently!
1Historygenius 1 year ago
Some inaccuracies here in terms of the order that the women were getting into the lifeboats. In the movie, Alice Cleaver escapes first, then Molly Brown, then Mrs. Straus' maid (Mrs. Straus refused to get in). Molly actually got away very early, the second boat to be exact. Then came Mrs. Straus' maid in another boat, and somewhat considerably later, Alice Cleaver with baby Trevor. Also, Ismay got away a couple of boats earlier than Mrs. Astor (Mrs. Astor escaped in the second to the last boat!)
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy Mrs. Asotr and her maid were the first charatcers to leave the ship in this movie I think! Very inaccurate but I somewhat agree with her leaving first in a certain way because the first class were many first to leave the ship however the scene is very inaccurate boat 4 is one of the first to leave in this movie then after the Astors the Ryersons come and instead of Arthur Ryerson it is Emily who orders her son to be in then the Straus episode takes place at boat 4!
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
The fictional character, Mrs. Paradine, leaves in Boat 4, and that is the same boat Mrs. Astor and Mrs. Ryerson were in. The rapist-transvestite is also in that boat, yet in the 1953 version (Barbara Stanwyck), he is in Molly Brown's boat! (Though Molly has a fictional name in that version). Mrs. Straus turned down a chance to get into Boat 8, which left much earlier than Boat 4.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
One other oddity about the man posing as a woman. For years, Third Class passenger Daniel Buckley was unfairly thought of as that man (he was slandered just like Alice Cleaver). In the Barbara Stanwyck version of 1953, the cross dresser is a fictional First Class passenger, and in the 1996 made for TV movie, he is a member of the crew (and also a rapist). Yikes!
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy Yeah well I guess there was raptist First class Steward, a first class man who is a coward, then Mr. Buckely who all fought it was a good idea and then went it a boat together lol or maybe from 1953-1996 Hollywood was crazy about cross dressers. Ever heard of Titanic Thompson thisd man did disguise himself as woman got on a lifeboat and after the disaster his real name Alvon Thompson collected insurance policies of Titanic's victims whome he claimed as relatives!
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
But is this just an urban legend? There was never a passenger named Alvon Thompson, and to my knowledge, the whole cross dressing thing was also a myth? It was just like the legendary Frank Tower (an oiler by trade: get the connection? Tower? Oiler?) This man supposedly swam away (literally SWAM away) from the Titanic in 1912, the Empress of Ireland in 1914 and the Lusitania in 1915. But there never was such a man.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy See I have a book on crimes there is a chapter called Strange but true a man named Alvon Clarence Thompson sneaked in a boat disguised as a woman and then when he got to New York collected insurance money from victims hwo he claims is victimsbut if you check the three classes and the three crew catorgories you don't find him. But here odd crime story in 1983 skeleton of a woman was found frightened by the discovery a man claims he killed his wife but the skeleton was 1,770 yars old!
1Historygenius 1 year ago
I do not think Mr. Straus was given the option of entering a lifeboat with his wife because of his age. Would not one think that he would have chosen to get into the boat if his wife refused to leave without him? Or would the crew not have made him get into the boat in order to save his wife?
ligreekguy 1 year ago
this is similar to 'a night to remember" like the "he's only 13" scene
DaniHarmerFan1983 1 year ago
@DaniHarmerFan1983, i know the same thing happened in there too.
moviegoer1002 1 year ago
@moviegoer1002 The "He's only 13!" thing is included in the movie because the boy was an actual passenger. When Mrs. W. Carter heard this, she took off her hat and covered her son's (Billy Jr's) face with it, to smuggle him onto the same lifeboat along with her and her daughter, knowing that the loading-officer would otherwise split up the family.
Shangas 1 year ago
@DaniHarmerFan1983 Yeah I remeber the boy was 1st class passenger John Ryerson after his mother Emily Ryersno got in a boat he was about to go in but officer Lightoller said he could not go but John's father Arthur said he was only 13 and hew was allowed in Arthur Ryerson died but his son and wife did not
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
What was really nasty on the part of Lightoller was that Mrs. Ryerson had just lost her only other son in a car accident. In fact, the family was just returning from claiming his body since he had been killed in Paris. (The body of course was being transported back to America on a different ship). And it was Mr. Ryerson, not his wife, who ordered Lightoller to let the boy into the boat. "No more boys!", said Lightoller. I think he had some sort of emotional or sexual hangup.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy Mrs. Ryerson lost her son in a car accident then her only other son John Ryerson on the Titanic she would have just have extreme emotional problems. She lost one son in a car crash then her other son John with husband Arthur would get lost on the Titanic for me that would be to much to take. Still it was bad enough she losses a son and a husband poor Mrs. Ryerson.
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@ligreekguy
They really should have let Mr. Ryerson into the boat. What troubles me is all these men with wives and children going down with the ship, and these unmarried old ladies surviving? And to think that Lightoller would survive! (Though, in fairness, he did technically go down with the ship, but was lucky enough to get into one of the collapsibles sliding off as it sank). I think of Third Class passenger Rosa Abbott who lost her two sons because they would not let HER 13 year old in.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy My Eyewtiness book on Titanic says boat 4 left with 35 women and children, 1 man, and 4 crew you got 40 people when there was room for 65 Mr. Astor, Ryerson, Thayer, Widener and his son etc. Also maybe these men when they figured out there were not enough boats wer very noble and many second and first class men would let the women and then third class men go first. What pains me is that Murdoch let men and women and children in his boats but Lightoller only women and children n crew.
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
Yes, Murdoch was the one who let Lawrence Beesley into a boat, the Second Class passenger who would later write a widely read account of the sinking. Part of the problem was that though there were plenty of seats for men (evidently there were no women and children around at the time), the question was which men would be allowed in? Rather than risk a run on the boats by panic stricken men, the decision was made to let none of them in. Even Murdoch did this toward the end.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy It is quite intresting however in the beggining of the sinking the calm and cool first class and second class passengers were allowed in the boats boat 7 when it left carried 12 women 13 men and 3 crew all the passengers were first class but still you have many couples such as Sir Cosmo Duff Gordon and Lady Gordon who did escape becuase they were on Murdoch's side while on Lightoller's side all of the men of New York and Philidelphia society die only Mr. Carter who got on colapsibleC
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
Ah yes, Mr. Carter! I believe he is the only husband who got into a lifeboat BEFORE his wife and children! He got into Collapsible C (ironically the same boat occupied by Ismay) while Mrs. Carter and her children got into the next boat, Number 4. I do believe Mr. Carter had no idea where his family was when he got into C, and made no special attempt to find them. (I think of the poor Allisons looking for Trevor here). Later on, the Carters were divorced. Coincidence?
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy I belive Carter did the right thing we need at least one man from Philidelphia and New York City Socitey to survive. With the other Carters getting into boat 4 I think Lucile Carter knew her husband could look after himself however how did she figure out he left before her that is what I want to know.
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
I happen to be one of those people who think that any man had the right to look after himself, after all, men want to live as well. My chief criticism of Ismay is that he was the one who urged Smith to attempt to beat the speed record as well as to travel the dangerous northern route. Perhaps Carter was aware that his wife and children already had reserved seats in Boat 4 (the rich ladies' boat), so I am more willing to forgive him. But, yes, men had the right to live as well
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy However many men acted differently when the ship was sinking the First class and second class men (some) for example were very noble and would let all women and children as well as thrid class men go before them when it was clear there were not enough boats. I love the scene in part 13 where all the first class men were in the smoking roo and they are having there last cigars and drinks kowing it is the end it would have been nice but it never happened like Asotr went to save his dog
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@ligreekguy I want you to see this video it says there was some conspiracy of the Titanic Unfastened coins: titanic conapiracy if you don't see it you can comment me and i will send a message to you with the video I hate so I am rallying Titanic fans to gether to insult this guy with comment and hate mail for this guy on his website in the info people belive him!
1Historygenius 1 year ago
Comment removed
HewieOfHG 1 year ago
@ligreekguy What is very intresting is that boat 4 was said to be the first to leave in that confusion with Smith andLightoller on lowering the boat to a-deck Lightoller left it until near the end however if it was lowered first this could very much effect the chances for the rich men like Astor and Ryerson on them having still a full hour and a half to get to a boat however this could effect other 3rd class women who had one last chance to survive and got on 4
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@ligreekguy Some people criticize Ismay for getting in collapsible C but he had the right idea see Ismay probrably did not know this but he was in charge of loading and lowering C! He then went to A-deck to bring more people up to the boat deck to collapsible C he allowed Women and Children but then would allow men at C but when he went down to A-deck Cheif Purser McElroy thinking Ismay was in charge but now with him leaving he was in charge of lowering C as Ismay saw it being lowere he got on
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius
Incidentally, that is yet another urban legend about the Titanic: Murdoch committing suicide in front of everybody after shooting a panic stricken male passenger trying to force his way into a boat. By the end, I suppose there were no more women and children to be placed in the boats: most of Third Class was kept downstairs until it was too late, while in First and Second Class, it was mostly women who refused to leave their husbands.
ligreekguy 1 year ago
@ligreekguy However only 4 1st s women died by the time the last few lifeboats were about to leave it was clear to many 1st and 2nd class men knew men there were not enough boats so many of them were noble letting all Women and Children along with 3rd class men I love the scene in part 13 or 14 where the first class men have drinks in cigars in the smoking room knowing this is the end but it never happened only a few men were in the smoking room Astor went to save his dog Kitty in the kennels.
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@DaniHarmerFan1983 That is becuase it actually hapened John Ryerson from first class was 13 he was not allowed in the boats by Lightoller but his father Arthur said he was 13 and he was alowed in with his mother Emily Ryerson
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius ok thanks for the info, also i read that John Ryerson never spoke about the Titanic again only to Walter Lord for his research
DaniHarmerFan1983 1 year ago
@DaniHarmerFan1983 Because it actually happened
sangbum60090 1 year ago
thanks so much for posting been looking for this for ages! :)
MissXenaLawless 1 year ago
thank you for your videos
linkalex76 1 year ago
@linkalex76, anytime.
moviegoer1002 1 year ago