Omar Baddar & Jeff Robbins debate Israel's assault on Gaza -- Part 1 (of 8)

[andersbra]

To claim that all human rights org. has an anti-Israel bias is simply not correct; and distorting facts-as documentation proves many have done- is the antithesis to human rights. The distortion of facts by many 'human rights organisations' is documented - hard facts - on e.g. CAMERA and 'NGO Monitor' [Google them]. Israeli army is of course not perfect, but they are taught to do their best to avoid civilian causalties. Part 2 of 2

[andersbra]

@omarbaddar0 : Different definitions of human shields are used. The two persons you mentioned were prosecuted and acted against the IDF-poilcy. To my knowledge, Shaul Mofaz didn’t endorse such incidents in 2005 either. The reader of this article must read the articles I referred to in order to understand the difference. Once again CAMERA (dot) org presents facts without distortions-the reader can and is recommended to research it by himself/herself. Part 1 of 2

[andersbra]

@ombaddar0, CAMERA (dot) org articles use hard facts. You try to imply that they distort the facts, but your statements lack proofs! What you would label 'credible media' is regularly found containing many errors -and many ignore to correct even after CAMERA points them out - by the research of CAMERA. I study both sources. The IDF forbids what the soldiers you mention did, so you can't use that as an example to describe the IDF.

[omarbaddar0]

@andersbra - if you bother watch the debate you're commenting on, you'll see that the IDF threw a fit when the Supreme Court banned the use of human shields (a recent ban I might add). So what you have is the Israeli military on record arguing in favor of using human shields, you have Israeli soldiers getting convicted of using human shields, and you have eye-witness testimony documented by independent human rights organizations of the extensive use of it. Consider acknowledging reality.

[andersbra]

@omarbaddar0 I recommend

the ‘Op-ed: Should IDF be allowed to use Arab civilians in order to minimize risk to soldiers?’ on Ynet [just Google it] by Yoaz Hendel. BBC wrote an article ‘IDF to appeal human shield ban’ [2005] and Shaul Mofaz reasons are reasonable. The reader of this post must read the articles and not assume anything, to understand what IDF endorsed at that time. Part 1 of 2

[omarbaddar0]

@andersbra - for the record, you started with saying that there is no proof that the IDF used human shields in Gaza. When I presented you w/ the record, you said it didn't reflect on the IDF because they were outlaws & were prosecuted. When I presented you w/ the IDF arguing in favor of the policy, you said their reasons were reasonable. As such, there is no winning with you. & if you want to believe that one propaganda outlet is more credible than every human rights org in the world, feel free.

[andersbra]

@omarbaddar0 You are talking about 'eye-witness reports' from persons in Gaza voting in the Hamas-terror regime and not putting a finger to stop Hamas terrorists-attacks. How can you know they are credible?

’Independent human rights organizations’: The bias and distorted ‘facts’ of many of these organisations are debunked by facts on CAMERA (dot) org

[omarbaddar0]

"no proofs whatsoever of Israeli soldiers using human shields in Gaza"

Compare that to the headline appearing in one of Israel's leading papers, Ha'aretz, just a couple of months ago which reads "IDF soldiers convicted of using 11-year-old as human shield in Gaza" (look it up). You would do well to spend less time on propaganda outlets like CAMERA & more time reading actual facts from credible outlets.

[andersbra]

@meshzzizk : You are quoting the Goldstone-report, which has been proven to contain many errors by the research published on CAMERA (dot) org.

There are no proofs whatsoever of Israeli soldiers using human shields in Gaza.

Yes, Hamas von the election. The people of Gaza – choose by their own free will to vote in Gaza. This shows that the majority of the people of Gaza support Hamas terrorism against civilians.

[omarbaddar0]

@andersbra --

"no proofs whatsoever of Israeli soldiers using human shields in Gaza"

Compare that to the headline appearing in one of Israel's leading papers, Ha'aretz, just a couple of months ago which reads "IDF soldiers convicted of using 11-year-old as human shield in Gaza" (look it up). You would do well to spend less time on propaganda outlets like CAMERA & more time reading actual facts from credible outlets.

[araps39]

Where I do agree with you to some extent is regarding Hamas winning the election. Instead of Israel taking sides with Fatah Israel should have declared recognition of any election result. Israel should note if any missile should be shot the representatives  and people of that government are responsible and will bare the consequences. In Democracies you have the right to vote – but you also bare the consequences.

[araps39]

First, Amnesty International - one cannot apply the same rules to Hamas and Israel. While Israel promises ALL its citizens it will protect them of all eveil (1.2 million Arabs included); Hamas hides behind them hoping they die for they are Shahid. Israel is a Democraticely ellected government while Hamas took over the Gaza strip by force and is not recognized by the international community. To compare the Two as on the same level is mistaken, wrong, and decietfull.

[meshzzizk]

@araps39 Nearly everything in your post is inaccurate. Only Israel was found guilty of human shielding in the UN report on Operation Cast Lead. Arab citizens of Israel just had their village torn down by the Israeli gov't in al-Arakib. Hamas won an internationally supervised democratic election for leadership in Gaza; Fatah was forced out when their US-backed attempt at a violent coup failed. 

[araps39]

@meshzzizk What do you mean when you say ONLY Israel was found guilty. There is endless footage of Hamas fighters Shooting a missile and running into a crowd of Children grabbing them so Israel wont shoot. Are you denying this happened? Are you against such an act? I am against it and think its sick.

[meshzzizk]

@araps39 Just reread my post. It is accurate on this point. And of course I'm against using civilians as human shields.

[araps39]

@meshzzizk I only ment to comment that Israel and Hamas are 2 different planets apart and needs to be looked at differently. You cant compare the pirates in Africa to US government of French or Russain. One is a gange which still acts as one the other accepted International rules and norms. One is a Terrorist organization committed to death of Jews while One is a protector and defender of a country.

[meshzzizk]

@araps39 That strikes me as a pretty silly thing to say. Israel routinely violates international law and is responsible for far more civilian casualties than Hamas. To consider a ragtag government militia living under occupation with one of the world's most powerful military forces is definitely unfair -- unfair to Hamas.

[araps39]

@meshzzizk Israel does not routinly violate international law but upholds it and promots it. You misslead and lie if you claim Israel violates intl law. Give me one situation where Israel acted illegaly? give me situation where they acted illegaly and werent lawfully put infront of a judge or investigated. Israel is a lot more critical of itself then other countries are and that should be praized, encouraged and promoted to countries which treat their citizens like crap and slaves

[araps39]

@meshzzizk Hamas is a ragtag govt militia because its run by uneducated Islamic gunmen who run on populist agenda and not Palestinian National Interest. Hamas leaders grew up hating and wishing death to Jews.

[araps39]

@meshzzizk Hamas lives under siege because they kidnapped Shalit, shoot missiles into Israel and teach their kids to kill Jews whenever they can. Hamas can return Shalit, stop shooting at Israel, stop promoting Gihad to 8 year olds, stop promoting hate and death of Jews and there will be peace. Israel has proven it wishes peace by signing peace accords with Jordan and Egypt. And I think Jordanian and Egyptian people are benefiting greatly from their relations with Israel

[araps39]

@meshzzizk Arab citizens in Israel are treated better then in any Arab country. They enjoy equal rights, freedom of speach and equality under law. I dont know the exact situation in al arakib but I know there are issues with the Beduins in Israel. Beduins live the land but Israel (governmental authority) doesnt recognize their location as habitable. There are rules and laws in every country, you can do out of Zoning or goverment plans. That said Israel should help the Beduins live respectfully