I just watched this for the first time since you posted it. (i.e. my second time). I get what you're saying, but at the same time I'm not sure people who shouldn't go to college are the exception. I really think the number of people who need undergraduate education is much lower than that of those that don't.
Obviously, because of the current state of our k-12 system, your argument is a bit more valid, but I still don't think the majority of people need 4 years of university.
I honestly think it depends on the student. Some students need that professor there pushing them to do better, others are lucky enough to have that shelf push to make themselves better (which then learning outside of college could be a good idea) and there are some careers where college is a waste of time. BUT (at the same time) for a lot of careers you NEED that degree to get a job.
The best thing to do is to self-educate and then claim on your resume that you were educated via the institutional method. That way, you save the money that would be spent yet you still get the recognition of post-secondary training. And anyone who claims that employers will verify the accuracy of your resume, in most cases at least, are much misinformed.
Thanks for your thoughts on those videos, I feel as though I have reached ataraxia. What would be more interesting is if you purposefully framed both theses as a dialectic and then came to a more tangible synthesis. I just find it funny when someone who feels strongly about laissez-faire capitalism uses a hegelian method. Not that Hegel would have understood the joke but commandeering the dialectic by those interested in economics is just so rooted in Marxism. Do it in parody if you wish.
ty for the vid, i actually was worried about college teaching me how to learn. I was worried they where not going to teach me how but just tell me to remember crap and spit it back out for the teacher to hear.
@HowTheWorldWorks Under the labour government(now gone), we have 20% dropping out in the uk. Everyone wants to go to university, but there are so many doing soft degrees-golf management etc that have no worth to employers, they get into debt afterwards and would of been better off not going.
Im currently studying zoology at university and have chosen a sociology subjec as one of my options and yes its extremly subjective, especially compared to the more solid subjects im taking and have taken (chemistry, biology, ect) but thats how soclology works, its more about discussing issues and working out a way to solve them aswell as figuring out why things are the way they are in society.
No hard science is a commonly used terminology for the those subjects more traditionally seen as science ie. physics, chem, bio as compared with social sciences which are not sciences in the traditional sense...
Its not a qualifying term on their level of difficulty...
I don't normally watch your channel. This video is better than what I remember of you in the past where you read off the screen constantly and quickly. This is really much better, very improved over what I had seen before. I totally agree about the different experiences aspect of various programs at college, a very good point.
As you mention, you can't talk about 'education at universities' in general. There are nowadays an awful lot of degrees/majors that are in my opinion not worth very much. To me the exact sciences are the most valuable, although society often doesn't necessarily value them the most any more.
So it's hard to compare some freshly made up degree to the 'real' sciences that are and will remain challenging. I think Dan should at least have mentioned something about the different 'levels' of degrees.
Agreed with most of what you said, don't like the words "Hard Science" since since I don't think any of the sciences are easy. Maybe certain courses are easier, but almost all the subjects are hard if you do them properly. No reason that that doesn't include Social Science etc. ( Except electromagnetic physics, everyone knows that's just faffing about. ) There are countless books and a hell of a lot to learn on most of these subjects. (Again except electromagnetic physics.. wasters!)
I think it's high-time that this mustache style should come back. Why not HowTheWorldWorks? Too bad Hitler gave this great style such a bad rap! Go How..., you got my fashion vote!
I understand where you're coming from on the social sciences/liberal arts issue, but I have to disagree. What these courses of study do is teach students to think critically about information provided to them, which is an invaluable skill that can't be learned on one's own, or even in a sciences classroom.
Agreed . I wrote Dan a while back that he should try to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem . Youtube is right now but what happens in time when youtube looses it's attaction to the masses and people get bored with it . Too much advertising ; best people leave etc what ever ! When Dan is 35 , has a wife , kids , bills to pay and suddenly money becomes an issue ; he will wish he had a degree or at least something to fall back on . Good vid .
@rabbitwho You are probably right there about youtube being around for a while yet , but as you said, people get bored really fast and suddenly the unsubscribe button is pressed . Plus burn-out ; how many ideas can these people come up with ? A lot are tapped out already . Dan seems quite intelligent and to see him or many others in a dead end when it could be avoided , sucks . THX
I am an English Education major (a major many would consider a social science). I do not think that what was said about social science majors was entirely accurate as most of my classes have been extremely beneficial.
Most of the "political indoctrination" I have experienced has been from feminists and anti-racists. I don't view this "indoctrination" as a bad thing.
Another thing to note is that Dan Brown dropped out during his freshman year. His experience was primarily lecture based.
One experience I have had in college that would not have been possible from just reading books is actual experience doing what I plan on doing later in life. For example, I have had the opportunity to "teach other students This has been invaluable to me.
NONE. Just think about it, even Harvard's graduate program in mathematics blatantly states that "The only thing a competent student needs for a complete education is an expansive library". Let's just face it if you're a relatively intelligent person the only practicality a university offers over a BOOK is a meterstick for corporations and institutions to judge you by.
I would disagree. Often classes will use a textbook as a basis for a subject but will often teach things differently or more in depth than what a textbook teaches. As well classes will help you understand the material much better.
Although I disagree with you on a number of matters, I agree that university "teaches you to learn". Coming from a science background, I've been able to apply the techniques I've learnt for learning to other areas.
I learnt French in High School. Hated it (although ended up doing pretty well in it). I forgot all of it, but the skills I learnt there and at university helped me to teach myself Spanish.
If anyone can be swayed to quit school just because some hyper dude on YouTube did, maybe they just don't belong in college
Seriously, I had to quit college due to financial and health issues. So it pisses me off when elitist jerks act as if anyone who chooses not to pursue a college degree is a moron destined to spend their life flipping burgers. Quitting was the right choice for me. And, if I end up regretting it later, I can always go back. Universities aren't going to disappear anytime soon
I recently looked at an FCAT math practice exam for 3rd grade. If what I saw is the subject matter that is being taught in Florida Schools; I have to disagree with you.
The level of Critical Thinking required to successfully complete this exam was impressive, and I was pleasantly surprised, because my kids went to private schools in Florida. I might have wasted a lot of money.
I agree -- you need to have the ambition to do the work for yourself and learn more than what your professors are (often times) indoctrinating you should stay in college just so you have some solid proof of your work.
I can't wait to go to college, but I'm gonna' stick to the hard sciences for sure. I'm way more interested in philosophy and social sciences, but I just don't know enough about anything else. And they can't politicize 2 + 2 = 4.
Most , if not all HR managers are college grads, therefore to validate their education, they hire only college grads, so if you want a job that pays a living wage, you better go to college, or learn a special skill like plumbing.
If people look at how real education spending at the federal level has rocketed up in the last few decades, pupils per teacher have fallen & how test scores have remained flat--it's easy to see how more gov't involvement (at least at the federal level) has actually damaged our education system.
This may not be totally germane to the video, but it's the truth nontheless.
This video only focuses on the people who want to be lawyers, doctors or engineers. You don't need college for most jobs. The jobs that make the economy continue to function. I think we have enough lawyers and politicians. And people at thank tanks do nothing for world. They sit around congratulating each other at how smart they are.
Dropping out of college would be the smartest thing anyone could do right now. The economy is close to collapse. If you are taking out loans get out while you can and get your loans paid off!!!! Find any job, stay with your family, buy gold and silver bullion. After the economic collapse go back to college. Don't waste your time with some worthless University that will not give you a classical education. - A Mathematics Teacher
Also, I've never been impressed with thunderf00t. He always seems like just another guy that doesn't understand science or logic, yet tries to speak on each's behalf (as if it were a person) trying to convince people with how his assumptions are best and anyone that disagrees with him is an unscientific, illogical idiot.
Competitive, hard science classes at research universities tend to be annoying. From personal experience, you might be expected to read 3 or 4 physics books to supplement the professors greater interest in his or her research. I've had a number of professors that would lecture on book A, give homework on book B, and test on book C, but say the whole time that book C was completely optional. I've been in classes where more than half failed.
Self education is important. I've read, perhaps, 20-30 books on economics, seen thousands of hours of lectures and shows, and I've managed to build quite an investment strategy that yields returns for me.
But as far as the formal education goes, I don't really see the point whatsoever to ever get a public science degree. It has about sa much value as toilet paper. Instead I'm getting an engineering degree, because I'm smart enough to get one and it is so much more valued in the market.
I don't ignore what I either know is true or has such a significant amount of evidence that it's practically impossible for it not to be true. The existence of a higher power, however you may believe in it, is one that I take as beyond a shadow of a doubt. How can I believe? Faith. I can't see many things that I have such confidence exist.
If you're an atheist, knock yourself out, but don't act like I'm clueless because I think the world is too complex not to have a Creator.
@MRaverz, any significant changes to a species likely render it unable to replicate and it dies. Also, I'll take modern science which is way more advanced than science pre-Darwin. Proteins are extremely complex, where did they come from? You have fossils of creatures I'd say are quite complex (a sabertooth cat? a mammoth? dinosaurs?). Who made them? Oh wait, cockroaches combined to be a dinosaur, or maybe a higher power.
Yes, likely, those that do survive, those hat do have benefical mutations - they prosper. Then add time. Time you can't even comprehend. What you get is spontaneous organization, this is used in computer programming for mapping and for AI development.
Again, microevolution, not a major change. As for time I can't comprehend, if you sent me back 5 years I would wonder how we survived back them... actually more like other people would freak out more since they're so techy, but you get the idea.
As for spontaneous head explosion, that's what happens when I pull and all nighter, know I'm not sleeping for another 17 hours, and I'm debating people... again...
@MRaverz, from what I've been told by people who have no reason to lie and also read is that there's plenty more evidence for the Bible than there is for a lot of ancient documents... quite possibly it's the most reliable.
By the way, in my line of reasoning, my God is not a deceiver, my God is omnipotent ("all powerful") and can do what he damn well pleases... including creating a universe out of nothing, and I don't know anyone who says the universe is eternal, it had a beginning.
At first I almost skipped this video once I saw what the topic was but I watched the whole thing and you made a very good point about "experiences" which is something people often forget as people shape their world view around their own experiences while failing to realize that their experiences are not universal and thus incomplete. We are all incomplete, that is why it is important to listen with with a certain amount of emotional disconnection from your own biases.
The thing is with college is that they cover topics that you won't use in everyday life. Though those topics are good to learn it can be a waste of money. In my opinion trade school is the best route to go. Go learn a trade come out and be productive. Then periodically go back to school to keep up with the modern technology that they incorporate in that trade.
Good point about going back to school to pick up things here and there. I spent about $120k (tuition and expenses) on two degrees I do not use any more. I am back in school now just taking core courses in accounting 9.5 yrs since I was out of college. I would really like to see a return to apprenticeships, but the AICPA, the Bar exam, etc. make money requiring going to an accredited college... that part is such a scam. Undergrad should also be able to be just 3 years, not 4.
Glenn Beck is launching an online College-ish education package for 6$ a month (for a year 36$) and he's supposed to be gathering the best of the best in professors (ppl presidents go to for answers etc) there'll be videos, & no tests.
I've always thought education would go this way (at least in part)
I wonder if there'll ever be a resurgence of degrees being worth much outside of the hard sciences (Maybe even with something like a modified version Beck's package; with tests).
Schools are indoctrination camps. They teach many things, but EVERY single one of them is underlined by one consistent lesson and that is to follow orders. That's why religious control freak type people are drawn to the teaching position.
The school system as is, is a complete failure dissociating children from their own brilliance.
Good work!! We are born already into what we do in life!..before schools existed!!..education became a system for profit!..to pay ! to learn!,,school will be free! in the future!! and it will change from the system put into place by authority?..and they caused peer pressure..ect...school be be voluntary for those born into what they will do in life...It will be choice !! not dictation!! ...Cheers!! all on the job learning!!
God created, God can re-create and change things as he wishes. If you believe what the Bible says, God created "the Man," Adam, from the earth, hence why Adam means "Son of red earth," if I'm not mistaken.
The legacy we inherit is our forefathers will to live.The right to decide between wrong and right, to fulfill whatever our distiny is, but we have become mindless cattle and slaves to foriegn goals. Our ancestors laid down thier lives for FREEDOM. Many feel this sprirt has left the soul of this land. The endeavors of t...he past still dwell within the few. The last stand for FREEDOM IS HERE AND NOW WE MUST STOP OBAMA!!!
Economics... I would HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY! recommend anything from Paul Zane Pilzer... he is very profound and also a little controversial... anyways, here is what i have to say about the Videos purpose. College: Yes people should go IF! they want to land a job in certain sciences and the like OR if they just want to be further learned in certain areas. However, if people wish to increase their personal economy then it is (unlike the common populous would tell you) in fact, very ineffective
School is only good for gettinga diploma, not for truly educateing except for absolute sciences such as math, and math related science. Schools should be privatized, and the money that goes to public schools should be divided amongst the students, so that the students can go to private schools. Im not one for distribution of mone (communism) but this would bolster the private education sector. And the govenrment shouldnt pay for all tuission necesarily but some.
One thing about your view and thunderf00t's on education. You view it as a personal responsibility, he views it as a source of positive societal impact. You are both right. Taken to extremes, educated people (regardless of the education) are more capable for providing for themselves than non educated people, allowing more personal responsibility. This capability facilitates creation of prosperity, which in turn has economic benefits for all of society.
I have two college degrees and the only jobs I can find are retail and sanitation. How that will pay off the $150,000 in debt I racked up, who knows. And I did very well. I wasn't a slacker by any stretch of the imagination. Good to college only wrecked by financial standing for life and left me no better off than a high school drop out. Explain to me again the value of going to college?
I've gotten that suggestion before and its really not for me. One, most of my debt is in private loans so I'd probably have to make a career in the military just to pay the interest. Two, I know my limitations. I have no business being in the military.
Well good luck finding some work in your field. I've known a lot of people with student loans and it's taken along time but they have managed to get their debt under control. Private loans just the same, time and effort. I'm sure you'll make the best choices.
Plenty of them are pretty worthless anyway. Others are just as good as getting some experience in some given field, but then you also get paid for doing that.
Very good video, Lee. I agree - having taken Engineering my views on everything differ enormously from people who majored in Political Science or Art Majors. Not to be boastful, but 5 years after graduation, comparing my situation as an Engineer to those who took Poli Sci or Art - I would say I am in a far better economic situation than any of them - not because I'm wealthier, but because my education has given me greater long term stability.
If you don't have a skill that can provide a living for yourself, go to college. Otherwise read a book, join the Army, do something with you life. Just as long as your not sucking off of others.
Education IS essentially an individual benefit. It's human capital, and just like any other capital, people will seek to acquire it to the extent that they benefit from it. From the economic aspect, they will seek education if the benefits (presumably increased income) outweight the costs (money spent on education plus the opportunity cost of not entering the workforce). Another option that many people discount (wrongly, in my mind) is vocational school, and going at it from the financial...
I think you can be successful without going to college IF you're intelligent and self-motivated, and can put off short-term goals for long-term gains. I think the main reason why people have this image of dropouts as losers is that the same qualities that would allow someone to be successful if they dropped out also make them more likely to finish anyway. In fact, I think Thomas Sowell made this point when explaining why the importance of college on earnings potential was overblown.
One of the major problems with university is the class size vs the tuition. I went to a small college, but my nephew, for example, goes to a large school and has to sit in classrooms with 700 students and 1 lecturer. We are talking about 40k plus per year to sit in a class of 700 kids. I also strongly disagree with the TF when he says his first job as a university teacher is to be a researcher. The kids should be his first priority, not a side job.
There are people (like me) who do learn better on their own. In high school many of my classmates faltered in Physics where I had known the concepts since I was a small child from watching programs like Mr Wizard and Bill Nye.
Learning those basics on my own and so young developed a way of thinking where I could expand that knowledge towards nearly anything engineering related.
Physics would have been an interesting class.... but I decided to leave high school early because I had the credits to do so :D
My interests lean toward the electomagnetic side of physics. Anything in that particular area tends to spark my interest.
And yes modern istitutions should focus less on trying to memorize facts and focus more on teaching the student so he or she can understand why things are the way they are and not simple THAT they are.
It's clear that from the tfoot and brown videos two conclusions can safely be drawn.
Neither of them know much about life or the work environment.
I think both of them are very naive. Yes, certainly a college education CAN help you. Only a fool would think it couldnt help you. But it in no way, shape, or form is a guarantee of employment, nor of intelligence.
A degree is worthless if you do nothing with it. However, without one, you had better have a solid plan, and ambition or (tbc)
(cont) you will have limited opportunities available to you. You will definately have to think outside the box or be forced to not think at all, in some mindless job, working for someone else for an hourly wage.
Take for instance my mechanic. He owns his own business, and he deals in only high end cars. Mazeratti, Ferarri, Lamborghini, Porsche, Audi etc. He dresses any way he likes, owns his own building, and charges rates that make doctors look poor.
(cont) The man is most definately in the top 1% of income earners, and he never went to school.
The thing is, unless Brown has a skill like this, that he is going to work hard at until he can support himself, then it's fairly naive of him to make his statements.
The most important thing to me, that I have noticed from college. It isnt the actual degree you receive, since most people never even apply their degree once out of school, but the most important thing to get in school are the
CONNECTION and NETWORKING that you establish while in school. Odds are the rest of the people in school all around you are trying to "make it" in life just like we all are, and so one person may branch into a career or employer that you might actually find interesting and worth pursuing.
So yes, my opinion is that neither of those two really know much about "how the world works" haha.
I believe everyone SHOULD get a college education even if it a liberal arts degree. Why? Because, as Lee touched on, it helps teach you to THINK and it develops the mind. It also provides more choices about which path your life will take once you graduate. Without a degree, you may be limiting yourself in ways that might not be apparent until much later in life. 4 years is not a long time to invest in something that may pay great dividends later on.
Great video. I struggled mightily with formal education and watched my sisters sail past me with their academic achievements. It was a very frustrating time because I was led to believe that if I couldn't pass exams I was a failure.
Education is vital but we should do it in the most effective way, schools/universities are not a one size fits all solution.
Nice video I think everybody is way smart in their own way. They just need to figure out what they are smart in. Like the Genius thing some people think you only have to be a genius in stuff like Math, Science and all the college/school subjects but there is also Geniuses in other ways like to me Richard Pryor was a genius in comedy.
You can pick and choose stuff you enjoy, rather than learning the entire field toi get the full picture.
Ignorance is dangerous.
And yes, you are correct, technical studies should be discussed separately from humanist studies, which are creating intellectuals, not capable engineers and scientists (who can prove to be equally capable intellectuals btw.).
I have walked away from two colleges in two areas of discipline. I can't stand structured education and can't justify it to myself. Like @MarcinP2 said, I do lean towards topics that I like but it settles the difficulty of "learning to learn" once you find somethings you like and want to learn about them you learn more and more about the topic and how to find the information.
Well, to be fair, I forgot to mention I meant a good college, the poor ones do not deserve a mention. ;)
Could have been the colleges you tried were just poor.
Anyway, if I may add something: after a while you find it easy to learn things regardless of if they do or don't match your interests. The mind gets more flexible and you seem to shed the preferences.
I am finishing collage right now and in my opinion I could learn anything, from any field, if I had the need.
thesorrowlives its more about the job market really if there was a massive need you would have been sorted its why im a little worried now im trying to get into law and the area is starting to look a little saturated :/
You are right about Social Sciences, I graduated with a BSc in Psychology and it was a giant waste of time. Had to go back and do Nursing, a degree orientated towards skills and a profession. A far better choice.
I see your point and under stand where you are coming from. Cool.
I also appreciate that you did ramble a little in this video. It tells a little more about how you may interact unscripted and in the real world. Thanks.
I think what you have failed to mention also is the value in learning technical skills. I too studied the physical sciences and found them to be less than ideal for my personal use. I did drop out for a year and led a self motivated study through application of knowledge I attained. I have returned to college to learn some technical skills in reference to video production because it is obviously the way of the future. I'm enjoying school now! Whoulda thunk that if you studied something cool...
I agree with you about the social sciences, but also I know many bio majors who never went into pre-med or nursing like they wanted and are working menial positions. My sister on the other hand, went to a technical college for a mere 2 years, is a physical therapist assistant and is now making about 40k a year. I could only dream of making that much money! But I also know that with time and experience, my skills will increase in value and thus my ability to make money will also. Patience!
WTF?....Glen Beck called- he wants his rambling back- lol.
No...I tease. I was with you till like the 5 minute mark and then I zone out and went back to surfing porn. "The English Patience" was less confusing....lol.
In the business world, most folks find is that employers don't look for personal education -- rather they look for a degree. They don't care if you know as much or more than other folks who have degrees if you don't have a degree, they want to see that you earned a degree. There are certain fields, however, where what you know is at least as important as whether you have the degree (doctors, lawyers, scientists) but most office jobs only care about the "piece of paper" & not the substance.
None of us are saying "college is the only way," it is one way.
Not sure of your thoughts on Glenn Beck, but his highest completed formal education is high school, and he tends to keep up with Double Masters educated Bill O'Reilly.
To be honest, this channel is good for some educating to an extent.
I have lived on both sides of the aisle - my first degree was in philosophy, i am close to finishing another in engineering - and can substantiate the claim that the expeirences are unimaginably different. For my liberal arts degree, the emphasis remains on creating spaces for meaning and evaluating ideas - and constant indoctrination. In engineering, it is more math and process driven, with no real room for a political patina on say Newton's law of cooling - but both have been fun.
I'm 23 and just going back to school, sometimes you need to get out, work and make some money and just realize what you actually want to do. I started college at 17, and that was a MISTAKE. Self education is necessary, but formalized education is very valuable. Also, Lee: If you want another good Economics read, look at Murray Rothbard's "Man, Economy, and the State." Cheers :)
I think it depends on what a person plans to actually do. I just find it rather odd how one who defends a form of educational "old school" structure blasts a known working society structure. maybe that is me just searching for the ironic. No one knows how people can apply what they know. I know a few college drop outs worth millions personally and even know a billionaire who didn't go to college until AFTER they were a self made millaire and it took them 10 years to get a degree going part time
I also know a few college grads who sell cars. Not that it is a bad job as if you are good at it you can make a really good living. i think it really boils down to how well a person can apply themselves into whatever they want to dive into will ultimately determin sucess for the simple fact that you always must keep up in learning in most any field you get into.
But that doesn't answer my question. There are such people who believe in what they call "Theistic Evolution"--like Francis Collins for example.
Accepting the fact of evolution doesn't make someone a non-theist entirely. Only in the sense of literal interpretation of the Abrahamic religions, but not entirely.
Just because someone reads "The Bible" doesn't make them a Christian, and believing that the world might be billions of years old and that evolution does exist in a way doesn't say that someone doesn't believe in Creation as well, or can't. God's time is not our time, so I say teach "Intelligent Design" and "Evolution," and some will pick one side, some the other, and some may marry the two ("God created evolution").
Like a scientist can see his work as learning more about their God.
I agree with you 100% that college teaches people HOW to learn. I recently graduated with one of those "worthless degrees" but I still feel that I am better off because of it simply because I know how to learn now and if I want I can go back and get a more marketable degree that I probably would have failed in if I had attempted it my first go around.
lee this is the kind of stupid pandering i expect from you. good job!
on a side note, am i the only one that finds it utterly hilarious that thundertARd is walking around like a wwf tag-team manager from the 80's during that video?? not to mention the ultra cheesy green screen background. god that video was funny.
While it's true that a great doctor or engineer can be produced outside of our current education system, the question of them actually getting a job without the degree is questionable. At least with the way things are set up now.
I agree. A doctor or an engineer needs a college education in order to work in their field.
I studied fine art, which needless to say, doesn't lead to a lot of career choices. Nevertheless I, personally, benefited a great deal from completing my degree.
I wish we could resurrect the idea of trade schools or apprenticeships. I suppose for this to work we would need more "masters", and I don't mean people with the degree.
If you think doctors and engineers cannot be produced without a college education, think again. Have you heard of Apprenticeship? You become the apprentice of a reputed doctor or engineer, who you learn and work with tell they are confident that you can go alone and lets you know that in writing. The better the reputation, the more your skill gets recognized, i.e until you build your own reputation. There is no class room used. No mass production. Class rooms trade quality for quantity.
Apprenticeship is not practiced these days because you have one person teaching one, maybe two people. He may teach them well, but he is not teaching many people. Class rooms may not teach everyone well, but there is quantity. Quantity over quality was preferred in the twentieth century. But in the 19th century, you could still become a doctor, lawyer, engineer through apprenticeship. You may have to sit for the exam to get your degree or pass the bar.
In my personal opinion i have recently discovered how great self-education can be. I favor self-education over college. Self- education stems from two sources: Reading and the Internet. When you self-educate you can teach yourself anything within your own interest as well as how much.
Whereas college on the other hand, you are forced to take certain classes you may not enjoy for credits and can end up hurting the best learning experience possible. Most importantly, self education is free
Thunderf00t was projecting extreme bitterness the way he made his two videos. Using dubious arguments he was trying to create a false dichotomy type of situation when there wan not one. I suppose that is what you get when you are solely a product of the formal education and did not learn for yourself as well. Like Lee did, when he learned economics for himself and Law at college. It makes sense. Traditionally the teaching establishment vehemently resists competition.
My college degrees have not helped me one bit, in the real world. I have had to work hard and learn things and do jobs that have had no relation to my college education. If I had that college money back, I would be far better off now, and richer.
If I could go back in time, first thing I would change.
There used to be a time when the sum total of all human learning was contained with an university. Those days are long gone. The education system has plenty of room for innovation. The trouble is, its rigidity is present by design. And the purpose of the design was primarily to fulfill a state agenda and to restrict education to those that can meet the state constraints. Those contraints remain, but the monopoly these instituions used to have is fast disappearing.
Oh the college drop out still speaks. How is your spot on fox news working out? Oh it was a fail....sorry
GabrielGrewal 1 day ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Could it be any more obvious that you are reading from a script
hatriarch 6 months ago
wow.. this assclown still berating the internets with his particular brand of clueless know-fuckall-ology, mutton dressed as lamb?
guy, seriously, time to get up, leave.
TheRealityofNature 7 months ago
@TheRealityofNature Right back at you lefty.
illinoislibertarian 1 month ago
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@illinoislibertarian
oh noes, yet another giant that thought the glossary section of sociology textbook had too many big words in it to be bother with.
cock knockers like you probably should have your eyeballs glued open and your brains hotwired to force you to learn these things.
"lefty" enough for ya, droog? run along, you bother me.
TheRealityofNature 1 month ago
I just watched this for the first time since you posted it. (i.e. my second time). I get what you're saying, but at the same time I'm not sure people who shouldn't go to college are the exception. I really think the number of people who need undergraduate education is much lower than that of those that don't.
Obviously, because of the current state of our k-12 system, your argument is a bit more valid, but I still don't think the majority of people need 4 years of university.
WideWorldOfWisdom 10 months ago
I honestly think it depends on the student. Some students need that professor there pushing them to do better, others are lucky enough to have that shelf push to make themselves better (which then learning outside of college could be a good idea) and there are some careers where college is a waste of time. BUT (at the same time) for a lot of careers you NEED that degree to get a job.
Mrschelseabishop 10 months ago
Idiot's delight...
2Majesties 10 months ago
The best thing to do is to self-educate and then claim on your resume that you were educated via the institutional method. That way, you save the money that would be spent yet you still get the recognition of post-secondary training. And anyone who claims that employers will verify the accuracy of your resume, in most cases at least, are much misinformed.
espntimestwo 1 year ago
fuck off HTWW no one cares
no one wants to hear your 'realistic' self-enlightened views on how the world works
"oh yeah lets have news report music and globe spinning to introduce my dire pretense for an intellectual news report on youtube.
rehanabey 1 year ago
@rehanabey except the thousands of people who watch his videos? Nobody cares what YOU say, sorry. Oh the irony...
david52875 11 months ago
Thanks for your thoughts on those videos, I feel as though I have reached ataraxia. What would be more interesting is if you purposefully framed both theses as a dialectic and then came to a more tangible synthesis. I just find it funny when someone who feels strongly about laissez-faire capitalism uses a hegelian method. Not that Hegel would have understood the joke but commandeering the dialectic by those interested in economics is just so rooted in Marxism. Do it in parody if you wish.
tacojohn9 1 year ago
ty for the vid, i actually was worried about college teaching me how to learn. I was worried they where not going to teach me how but just tell me to remember crap and spit it back out for the teacher to hear.
MirageScience 1 year ago
@howtheworldworks There are very few leftists in the USA. Even the democrats are on the right. Man, you need to travel more.
Darkconis 1 year ago
@HowTheWorldWorks Under the labour government(now gone), we have 20% dropping out in the uk. Everyone wants to go to university, but there are so many doing soft degrees-golf management etc that have no worth to employers, they get into debt afterwards and would of been better off not going.
MysterySparkStudios 1 year ago
Im currently studying zoology at university and have chosen a sociology subjec as one of my options and yes its extremly subjective, especially compared to the more solid subjects im taking and have taken (chemistry, biology, ect) but thats how soclology works, its more about discussing issues and working out a way to solve them aswell as figuring out why things are the way they are in society.
Erech01 1 year ago
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@rabbitwho:
No hard science is a commonly used terminology for the those subjects more traditionally seen as science ie. physics, chem, bio as compared with social sciences which are not sciences in the traditional sense...
Its not a qualifying term on their level of difficulty...
mariajoseph 1 year ago
I don't normally watch your channel. This video is better than what I remember of you in the past where you read off the screen constantly and quickly. This is really much better, very improved over what I had seen before. I totally agree about the different experiences aspect of various programs at college, a very good point.
inouveaution 1 year ago
pogobat "Dan Brown" is just expressing what is right for him right now. Its all about timing.
pssx77 1 year ago
As you mention, you can't talk about 'education at universities' in general. There are nowadays an awful lot of degrees/majors that are in my opinion not worth very much. To me the exact sciences are the most valuable, although society often doesn't necessarily value them the most any more.
So it's hard to compare some freshly made up degree to the 'real' sciences that are and will remain challenging. I think Dan should at least have mentioned something about the different 'levels' of degrees.
Dionamuh 1 year ago
Agreed with most of what you said, don't like the words "Hard Science" since since I don't think any of the sciences are easy. Maybe certain courses are easier, but almost all the subjects are hard if you do them properly. No reason that that doesn't include Social Science etc. ( Except electromagnetic physics, everyone knows that's just faffing about. ) There are countless books and a hell of a lot to learn on most of these subjects. (Again except electromagnetic physics.. wasters!)
rabbitwho 1 year ago
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mariajoseph 1 year ago
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mattbroderick 1 year ago
@mattbroderick hi, look at the date on the comment, thanks. bye.
rabbitwho 1 year ago
@rabbitwho Whoops, sorry. Will remove.
mattbroderick 1 year ago
first
mAwesome334 1 year ago
I think it's high-time that this mustache style should come back. Why not HowTheWorldWorks? Too bad Hitler gave this great style such a bad rap! Go How..., you got my fashion vote!
penael 1 year ago
Lee..... Agreeing with thunderf00t...... the world is coming to an end gentlemen and ladies....
hawkwreak 1 year ago
Some great points, and generally very well placed and relevant insight!
satanicaa 1 year ago
I understand where you're coming from on the social sciences/liberal arts issue, but I have to disagree. What these courses of study do is teach students to think critically about information provided to them, which is an invaluable skill that can't be learned on one's own, or even in a sciences classroom.
broadwaybaybe9490 1 year ago 2
Agreed . I wrote Dan a while back that he should try to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem . Youtube is right now but what happens in time when youtube looses it's attaction to the masses and people get bored with it . Too much advertising ; best people leave etc what ever ! When Dan is 35 , has a wife , kids , bills to pay and suddenly money becomes an issue ; he will wish he had a degree or at least something to fall back on . Good vid .
jujitsu62 1 year ago
I don't think people will get sick of youtube, but there isn't a celebrity on the face of the earth that people won't get sick of.
rabbitwho 1 year ago
@rabbitwho You are probably right there about youtube being around for a while yet , but as you said, people get bored really fast and suddenly the unsubscribe button is pressed . Plus burn-out ; how many ideas can these people come up with ? A lot are tapped out already . Dan seems quite intelligent and to see him or many others in a dead end when it could be avoided , sucks . THX
jujitsu62 1 year ago
I am an English Education major (a major many would consider a social science). I do not think that what was said about social science majors was entirely accurate as most of my classes have been extremely beneficial.
Most of the "political indoctrination" I have experienced has been from feminists and anti-racists. I don't view this "indoctrination" as a bad thing.
Another thing to note is that Dan Brown dropped out during his freshman year. His experience was primarily lecture based.
timothystulken 1 year ago
Could you share with us what experiences you got in college that you couldn't have gotten at home reading books?
rabbitwho 1 year ago
@rabbitwho
One experience I have had in college that would not have been possible from just reading books is actual experience doing what I plan on doing later in life. For example, I have had the opportunity to "teach other students This has been invaluable to me.
timothystulken 1 year ago
NONE. Just think about it, even Harvard's graduate program in mathematics blatantly states that "The only thing a competent student needs for a complete education is an expansive library". Let's just face it if you're a relatively intelligent person the only practicality a university offers over a BOOK is a meterstick for corporations and institutions to judge you by.
iridethewave 1 year ago
@iridethewave
I would disagree. Often classes will use a textbook as a basis for a subject but will often teach things differently or more in depth than what a textbook teaches. As well classes will help you understand the material much better.
MrAsaphelps 1 year ago
Hit the nail on the head. Thanks for the excellent response. I'll be continuing this discussion with a new video tomorrow :D
pogobat 1 year ago 13
This comment has received too many negative votes show
nice Hitler mustache....
darthrender2010 1 year ago
fail
satanicaa 1 year ago
Yea this moron has to add his 2 cents as well great!
LiberateEXinfernus 1 year ago
Although I disagree with you on a number of matters, I agree that university "teaches you to learn". Coming from a science background, I've been able to apply the techniques I've learnt for learning to other areas.
I learnt French in High School. Hated it (although ended up doing pretty well in it). I forgot all of it, but the skills I learnt there and at university helped me to teach myself Spanish.
frodoondabass 1 year ago
If anyone can be swayed to quit school just because some hyper dude on YouTube did, maybe they just don't belong in college
Seriously, I had to quit college due to financial and health issues. So it pisses me off when elitist jerks act as if anyone who chooses not to pursue a college degree is a moron destined to spend their life flipping burgers. Quitting was the right choice for me. And, if I end up regretting it later, I can always go back. Universities aren't going to disappear anytime soon
MsBrendalina 1 year ago 22
Well said.
joehassmallarms 1 year ago
Pokets:
I recently looked at an FCAT math practice exam for 3rd grade. If what I saw is the subject matter that is being taught in Florida Schools; I have to disagree with you.
The level of Critical Thinking required to successfully complete this exam was impressive, and I was pleasantly surprised, because my kids went to private schools in Florida. I might have wasted a lot of money.
captaindiesalot 1 year ago
Lee, with this video i just might become a fan of your channel.
stylovore 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Stupid athiest xD
RestoredLifeCOD 1 year ago
Lee can you do a video on your top ten educational books you read, including Basic Economics! Please :)
dunk88 1 year ago
I agree -- you need to have the ambition to do the work for yourself and learn more than what your professors are (often times) indoctrinating you should stay in college just so you have some solid proof of your work.
KDxLiberty 1 year ago 2
I can't wait to go to college, but I'm gonna' stick to the hard sciences for sure. I'm way more interested in philosophy and social sciences, but I just don't know enough about anything else. And they can't politicize 2 + 2 = 4.
Fetchdafish 1 year ago 2
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MsBrendalina 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
""And they can't politicize 2 + 2 = 4""
You would be surprised.
MsBrendalina 1 year ago
People are born with the innate ability to learn. You don't have to learn how to learn.
juliecranford 1 year ago 2
I've done hard sciences and I think school is crap.
juliecranford 1 year ago
the only economics books that count are basics of macro and microeconomics. those books you support are biased.
LouieArrighi 1 year ago
@LouieArrighi
If only you understood the irony of your statement.
HowTheWorldWorks 1 year ago 15
subjectivity is biased
LouieArrighi 1 year ago
@LouieArrighi
Lee is biased? No way....next you'll be saying Fox News is biased....the hell you say, sir.
Eldeecue 1 year ago
Most , if not all HR managers are college grads, therefore to validate their education, they hire only college grads, so if you want a job that pays a living wage, you better go to college, or learn a special skill like plumbing.
How self educated you are is of no relevances.
mrgetrealpeople 1 year ago
If people look at how real education spending at the federal level has rocketed up in the last few decades, pupils per teacher have fallen & how test scores have remained flat--it's easy to see how more gov't involvement (at least at the federal level) has actually damaged our education system.
This may not be totally germane to the video, but it's the truth nontheless.
UTubekookdetector 1 year ago
Lee, once again, I appreciate that you have a level of integrity that is often unseen on either side of the political spectrum.
Neilsama 1 year ago
Ceiling fan at 7:45!!!
sveardze 1 year ago
Dude you look like Hitler with that mustache!
cerritoboy 1 year ago
This video only focuses on the people who want to be lawyers, doctors or engineers. You don't need college for most jobs. The jobs that make the economy continue to function. I think we have enough lawyers and politicians. And people at thank tanks do nothing for world. They sit around congratulating each other at how smart they are.
aarondavid826 2 years ago
Dropping out of college would be the smartest thing anyone could do right now. The economy is close to collapse. If you are taking out loans get out while you can and get your loans paid off!!!! Find any job, stay with your family, buy gold and silver bullion. After the economic collapse go back to college. Don't waste your time with some worthless University that will not give you a classical education. - A Mathematics Teacher
FreeMenOwnGuns 2 years ago
Man, seriously? The hard and soft science departments at my school kicks ass.
jacobromu 2 years ago
Also, I've never been impressed with thunderf00t. He always seems like just another guy that doesn't understand science or logic, yet tries to speak on each's behalf (as if it were a person) trying to convince people with how his assumptions are best and anyone that disagrees with him is an unscientific, illogical idiot.
JohnBreadForger 2 years ago
Competitive, hard science classes at research universities tend to be annoying. From personal experience, you might be expected to read 3 or 4 physics books to supplement the professors greater interest in his or her research. I've had a number of professors that would lecture on book A, give homework on book B, and test on book C, but say the whole time that book C was completely optional. I've been in classes where more than half failed.
JohnBreadForger 2 years ago 2
wow, an intelligent video. Youre doing alot better then your angry WRONG videos. Still think we should bomb the world, howtheworldworks?
grendelee 2 years ago
Self education is important. I've read, perhaps, 20-30 books on economics, seen thousands of hours of lectures and shows, and I've managed to build quite an investment strategy that yields returns for me.
But as far as the formal education goes, I don't really see the point whatsoever to ever get a public science degree. It has about sa much value as toilet paper. Instead I'm getting an engineering degree, because I'm smart enough to get one and it is so much more valued in the market.
Visfen 2 years ago
@MRaverz,
I don't ignore what I either know is true or has such a significant amount of evidence that it's practically impossible for it not to be true. The existence of a higher power, however you may believe in it, is one that I take as beyond a shadow of a doubt. How can I believe? Faith. I can't see many things that I have such confidence exist.
If you're an atheist, knock yourself out, but don't act like I'm clueless because I think the world is too complex not to have a Creator.
wesleywildcat84 2 years ago
@MRaverz, any significant changes to a species likely render it unable to replicate and it dies. Also, I'll take modern science which is way more advanced than science pre-Darwin. Proteins are extremely complex, where did they come from? You have fossils of creatures I'd say are quite complex (a sabertooth cat? a mammoth? dinosaurs?). Who made them? Oh wait, cockroaches combined to be a dinosaur, or maybe a higher power.
wesleywildcat84 2 years ago
Yes, likely, those that do survive, those hat do have benefical mutations - they prosper. Then add time. Time you can't even comprehend. What you get is spontaneous organization, this is used in computer programming for mapping and for AI development.
Visfen 2 years ago
@Visfen,
Again, microevolution, not a major change. As for time I can't comprehend, if you sent me back 5 years I would wonder how we survived back them... actually more like other people would freak out more since they're so techy, but you get the idea.
As for spontaneous head explosion, that's what happens when I pull and all nighter, know I'm not sleeping for another 17 hours, and I'm debating people... again...
wesleywildcat84 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Oh wait, cockroaches combined to be a dinosaur, or maybe a higher power." what the fuck did i just read
grendelee 2 years ago
@MRaverz, from what I've been told by people who have no reason to lie and also read is that there's plenty more evidence for the Bible than there is for a lot of ancient documents... quite possibly it's the most reliable.
By the way, in my line of reasoning, my God is not a deceiver, my God is omnipotent ("all powerful") and can do what he damn well pleases... including creating a universe out of nothing, and I don't know anyone who says the universe is eternal, it had a beginning.
wesleywildcat84 2 years ago
At first I almost skipped this video once I saw what the topic was but I watched the whole thing and you made a very good point about "experiences" which is something people often forget as people shape their world view around their own experiences while failing to realize that their experiences are not universal and thus incomplete. We are all incomplete, that is why it is important to listen with with a certain amount of emotional disconnection from your own biases.
.
kmg501 2 years ago
The thing is with college is that they cover topics that you won't use in everyday life. Though those topics are good to learn it can be a waste of money. In my opinion trade school is the best route to go. Go learn a trade come out and be productive. Then periodically go back to school to keep up with the modern technology that they incorporate in that trade.
Halo2100 2 years ago
Good point about going back to school to pick up things here and there. I spent about $120k (tuition and expenses) on two degrees I do not use any more. I am back in school now just taking core courses in accounting 9.5 yrs since I was out of college. I would really like to see a return to apprenticeships, but the AICPA, the Bar exam, etc. make money requiring going to an accredited college... that part is such a scam. Undergrad should also be able to be just 3 years, not 4.
uflnuceng 2 years ago
Glenn Beck is launching an online College-ish education package for 6$ a month (for a year 36$) and he's supposed to be gathering the best of the best in professors (ppl presidents go to for answers etc) there'll be videos, & no tests.
I've always thought education would go this way (at least in part)
I wonder if there'll ever be a resurgence of degrees being worth much outside of the hard sciences (Maybe even with something like a modified version Beck's package; with tests).
asderathos 2 years ago
Schools are indoctrination camps. They teach many things, but EVERY single one of them is underlined by one consistent lesson and that is to follow orders. That's why religious control freak type people are drawn to the teaching position.
The school system as is, is a complete failure dissociating children from their own brilliance.
I am not as familiar with university.
blapperz 2 years ago
Bill Gates is NOT an exception. He learned all he needed long before university. Whoever said he's an exception is absolutely talking out their ass!
blapperz 2 years ago
What about the mercury bulb behind you?
raishisou 2 years ago
College is drinking beer and hooking up. Stay in school. The real world is no where near as much fun. Cold beer and hot girls.
UtherPendragan 2 years ago
Good work!! We are born already into what we do in life!..before schools existed!!..education became a system for profit!..to pay ! to learn!,,school will be free! in the future!! and it will change from the system put into place by authority?..and they caused peer pressure..ect...school be be voluntary for those born into what they will do in life...It will be choice !! not dictation!! ...Cheers!! all on the job learning!!
HABAKKUP 2 years ago
@MRaverz,
God created, God can re-create and change things as he wishes. If you believe what the Bible says, God created "the Man," Adam, from the earth, hence why Adam means "Son of red earth," if I'm not mistaken.
wesleywildcat84 2 years ago
I think Dan's video was really just made for his own benefit, a sort of self-justification that he decided to post publicly.
KagarBeardtooth 2 years ago
The legacy we inherit is our forefathers will to live.The right to decide between wrong and right, to fulfill whatever our distiny is, but we have become mindless cattle and slaves to foriegn goals. Our ancestors laid down thier lives for FREEDOM. Many feel this sprirt has left the soul of this land. The endeavors of t...he past still dwell within the few. The last stand for FREEDOM IS HERE AND NOW WE MUST STOP OBAMA!!!
jaddaway 2 years ago
Economics... I would HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY! recommend anything from Paul Zane Pilzer... he is very profound and also a little controversial... anyways, here is what i have to say about the Videos purpose. College: Yes people should go IF! they want to land a job in certain sciences and the like OR if they just want to be further learned in certain areas. However, if people wish to increase their personal economy then it is (unlike the common populous would tell you) in fact, very ineffective
TetsukenZ 2 years ago
Great video Lee--I think it summed up my thoughts on the issue perfectly.
LPBguy 2 years ago
You'd of thought Dan Brown would bemaking plenty of his books.
Ho ho ho
I made a funny
BlackRaptor31 2 years ago
School is only good for gettinga diploma, not for truly educateing except for absolute sciences such as math, and math related science. Schools should be privatized, and the money that goes to public schools should be divided amongst the students, so that the students can go to private schools. Im not one for distribution of mone (communism) but this would bolster the private education sector. And the govenrment shouldnt pay for all tuission necesarily but some.
RadioHyperactive 2 years ago
One thing about your view and thunderf00t's on education. You view it as a personal responsibility, he views it as a source of positive societal impact. You are both right. Taken to extremes, educated people (regardless of the education) are more capable for providing for themselves than non educated people, allowing more personal responsibility. This capability facilitates creation of prosperity, which in turn has economic benefits for all of society.
HarblTheCat1 2 years ago 3
I have two college degrees and the only jobs I can find are retail and sanitation. How that will pay off the $150,000 in debt I racked up, who knows. And I did very well. I wasn't a slacker by any stretch of the imagination. Good to college only wrecked by financial standing for life and left me no better off than a high school drop out. Explain to me again the value of going to college?
mrwednesdaynight 2 years ago
4 years in the military can knock off some of your debt. Just a suggestion.
LokiScoutSniper 2 years ago
I've gotten that suggestion before and its really not for me. One, most of my debt is in private loans so I'd probably have to make a career in the military just to pay the interest. Two, I know my limitations. I have no business being in the military.
mrwednesdaynight 2 years ago
Well good luck finding some work in your field. I've known a lot of people with student loans and it's taken along time but they have managed to get their debt under control. Private loans just the same, time and effort. I'm sure you'll make the best choices.
LokiScoutSniper 2 years ago
It depends what degrees you got.
Plenty of them are pretty worthless anyway. Others are just as good as getting some experience in some given field, but then you also get paid for doing that.
BlackRaptor31 2 years ago
Very good video, Lee. I agree - having taken Engineering my views on everything differ enormously from people who majored in Political Science or Art Majors. Not to be boastful, but 5 years after graduation, comparing my situation as an Engineer to those who took Poli Sci or Art - I would say I am in a far better economic situation than any of them - not because I'm wealthier, but because my education has given me greater long term stability.
HarblTheCat1 2 years ago
If you don't have a skill that can provide a living for yourself, go to college. Otherwise read a book, join the Army, do something with you life. Just as long as your not sucking off of others.
LokiScoutSniper 2 years ago
...side of things, it may be a lot better than going to college for an liberal arts degree.
nonantianarchist 2 years ago
Education IS essentially an individual benefit. It's human capital, and just like any other capital, people will seek to acquire it to the extent that they benefit from it. From the economic aspect, they will seek education if the benefits (presumably increased income) outweight the costs (money spent on education plus the opportunity cost of not entering the workforce). Another option that many people discount (wrongly, in my mind) is vocational school, and going at it from the financial...
nonantianarchist 2 years ago
I think you can be successful without going to college IF you're intelligent and self-motivated, and can put off short-term goals for long-term gains. I think the main reason why people have this image of dropouts as losers is that the same qualities that would allow someone to be successful if they dropped out also make them more likely to finish anyway. In fact, I think Thomas Sowell made this point when explaining why the importance of college on earnings potential was overblown.
nonantianarchist 2 years ago
One of the major problems with university is the class size vs the tuition. I went to a small college, but my nephew, for example, goes to a large school and has to sit in classrooms with 700 students and 1 lecturer. We are talking about 40k plus per year to sit in a class of 700 kids. I also strongly disagree with the TF when he says his first job as a university teacher is to be a researcher. The kids should be his first priority, not a side job.
christo930 2 years ago
There are people (like me) who do learn better on their own. In high school many of my classmates faltered in Physics where I had known the concepts since I was a small child from watching programs like Mr Wizard and Bill Nye.
Learning those basics on my own and so young developed a way of thinking where I could expand that knowledge towards nearly anything engineering related.
zer0load 2 years ago
Physics would have been an interesting class.... but I decided to leave high school early because I had the credits to do so :D
My interests lean toward the electomagnetic side of physics. Anything in that particular area tends to spark my interest.
And yes modern istitutions should focus less on trying to memorize facts and focus more on teaching the student so he or she can understand why things are the way they are and not simple THAT they are.
Elzon1 2 years ago
Oh look spelling mistake ooops, happens to the best of us :P
Elzon1 2 years ago
Not your best Lee.
mcoop221 2 years ago
rotfl Maybe the college of hard knocks.
Bob 2012!!
TheDrZeus 2 years ago
It's clear that from the tfoot and brown videos two conclusions can safely be drawn.
Neither of them know much about life or the work environment.
I think both of them are very naive. Yes, certainly a college education CAN help you. Only a fool would think it couldnt help you. But it in no way, shape, or form is a guarantee of employment, nor of intelligence.
A degree is worthless if you do nothing with it. However, without one, you had better have a solid plan, and ambition or (tbc)
AvatarOfAvatar 2 years ago 2
(cont) you will have limited opportunities available to you. You will definately have to think outside the box or be forced to not think at all, in some mindless job, working for someone else for an hourly wage.
Take for instance my mechanic. He owns his own business, and he deals in only high end cars. Mazeratti, Ferarri, Lamborghini, Porsche, Audi etc. He dresses any way he likes, owns his own building, and charges rates that make doctors look poor.
AvatarOfAvatar 2 years ago
(cont) The man is most definately in the top 1% of income earners, and he never went to school.
The thing is, unless Brown has a skill like this, that he is going to work hard at until he can support himself, then it's fairly naive of him to make his statements.
The most important thing to me, that I have noticed from college. It isnt the actual degree you receive, since most people never even apply their degree once out of school, but the most important thing to get in school are the
AvatarOfAvatar 2 years ago
CONNECTION and NETWORKING that you establish while in school. Odds are the rest of the people in school all around you are trying to "make it" in life just like we all are, and so one person may branch into a career or employer that you might actually find interesting and worth pursuing.
So yes, my opinion is that neither of those two really know much about "how the world works" haha.
AvatarOfAvatar 2 years ago
I believe everyone SHOULD get a college education even if it a liberal arts degree. Why? Because, as Lee touched on, it helps teach you to THINK and it develops the mind. It also provides more choices about which path your life will take once you graduate. Without a degree, you may be limiting yourself in ways that might not be apparent until much later in life. 4 years is not a long time to invest in something that may pay great dividends later on.
purcellfinancial 2 years ago
Great video. I struggled mightily with formal education and watched my sisters sail past me with their academic achievements. It was a very frustrating time because I was led to believe that if I couldn't pass exams I was a failure.
Education is vital but we should do it in the most effective way, schools/universities are not a one size fits all solution.
versanil 2 years ago
This is how a video should be made - not by calling other people "money-grubbing subscriber whore".. Remember that T-F00t?
Clausfarre 2 years ago 2
Nice video I think everybody is way smart in their own way. They just need to figure out what they are smart in. Like the Genius thing some people think you only have to be a genius in stuff like Math, Science and all the college/school subjects but there is also Geniuses in other ways like to me Richard Pryor was a genius in comedy.
smeefan 2 years ago
Self education does not challenge you.
You can pick and choose stuff you enjoy, rather than learning the entire field toi get the full picture.
Ignorance is dangerous.
And yes, you are correct, technical studies should be discussed separately from humanist studies, which are creating intellectuals, not capable engineers and scientists (who can prove to be equally capable intellectuals btw.).
MarcinP2 2 years ago
I have walked away from two colleges in two areas of discipline. I can't stand structured education and can't justify it to myself. Like @MarcinP2 said, I do lean towards topics that I like but it settles the difficulty of "learning to learn" once you find somethings you like and want to learn about them you learn more and more about the topic and how to find the information.
zer0load 2 years ago
Well, to be fair, I forgot to mention I meant a good college, the poor ones do not deserve a mention. ;)
Could have been the colleges you tried were just poor.
Anyway, if I may add something: after a while you find it easy to learn things regardless of if they do or don't match your interests. The mind gets more flexible and you seem to shed the preferences.
I am finishing collage right now and in my opinion I could learn anything, from any field, if I had the need.
MarcinP2 2 years ago
Very good video, Lee. One of your bests in a while.
5b 2 years ago
thesorrowlives its more about the job market really if there was a massive need you would have been sorted its why im a little worried now im trying to get into law and the area is starting to look a little saturated :/
dunndudebemelol 2 years ago
You are right about Social Sciences, I graduated with a BSc in Psychology and it was a giant waste of time. Had to go back and do Nursing, a degree orientated towards skills and a profession. A far better choice.
TheSorrowLives 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This video is too long and boring, you don't get to the point quickly enough.
EconomicImperialist 2 years ago
I was hoping Doren would join in.
FUZZYisBIG 2 years ago
I see your point and under stand where you are coming from. Cool.
I also appreciate that you did ramble a little in this video. It tells a little more about how you may interact unscripted and in the real world. Thanks.
rtottenc 2 years ago
Behold , a lucky predator in the making .
hieronomy 2 years ago
I think what you have failed to mention also is the value in learning technical skills. I too studied the physical sciences and found them to be less than ideal for my personal use. I did drop out for a year and led a self motivated study through application of knowledge I attained. I have returned to college to learn some technical skills in reference to video production because it is obviously the way of the future. I'm enjoying school now! Whoulda thunk that if you studied something cool...
HomesteadProvocateur 2 years ago
I agree with you about the social sciences, but also I know many bio majors who never went into pre-med or nursing like they wanted and are working menial positions. My sister on the other hand, went to a technical college for a mere 2 years, is a physical therapist assistant and is now making about 40k a year. I could only dream of making that much money! But I also know that with time and experience, my skills will increase in value and thus my ability to make money will also. Patience!
HomesteadProvocateur 2 years ago
WTF?....Glen Beck called- he wants his rambling back- lol.
No...I tease. I was with you till like the 5 minute mark and then I zone out and went back to surfing porn. "The English Patience" was less confusing....lol.
IDOLSMASHER 2 years ago
In the business world, most folks find is that employers don't look for personal education -- rather they look for a degree. They don't care if you know as much or more than other folks who have degrees if you don't have a degree, they want to see that you earned a degree. There are certain fields, however, where what you know is at least as important as whether you have the degree (doctors, lawyers, scientists) but most office jobs only care about the "piece of paper" & not the substance.
tchapman1977 2 years ago
None of us are saying "college is the only way," it is one way.
Not sure of your thoughts on Glenn Beck, but his highest completed formal education is high school, and he tends to keep up with Double Masters educated Bill O'Reilly.
To be honest, this channel is good for some educating to an extent.
wesleywildcat84 2 years ago
I have lived on both sides of the aisle - my first degree was in philosophy, i am close to finishing another in engineering - and can substantiate the claim that the expeirences are unimaginably different. For my liberal arts degree, the emphasis remains on creating spaces for meaning and evaluating ideas - and constant indoctrination. In engineering, it is more math and process driven, with no real room for a political patina on say Newton's law of cooling - but both have been fun.
mephamphetamine24 2 years ago
Best video you have ever made. Ever.
Adveloq 2 years ago
I'm 23 and just going back to school, sometimes you need to get out, work and make some money and just realize what you actually want to do. I started college at 17, and that was a MISTAKE. Self education is necessary, but formalized education is very valuable. Also, Lee: If you want another good Economics read, look at Murray Rothbard's "Man, Economy, and the State." Cheers :)
tylerwylie 2 years ago
I think it depends on what a person plans to actually do. I just find it rather odd how one who defends a form of educational "old school" structure blasts a known working society structure. maybe that is me just searching for the ironic. No one knows how people can apply what they know. I know a few college drop outs worth millions personally and even know a billionaire who didn't go to college until AFTER they were a self made millaire and it took them 10 years to get a degree going part time
tubaboy71 2 years ago
I also know a few college grads who sell cars. Not that it is a bad job as if you are good at it you can make a really good living. i think it really boils down to how well a person can apply themselves into whatever they want to dive into will ultimately determin sucess for the simple fact that you always must keep up in learning in most any field you get into.
tubaboy71 2 years ago
But that doesn't answer my question. There are such people who believe in what they call "Theistic Evolution"--like Francis Collins for example.
Accepting the fact of evolution doesn't make someone a non-theist entirely. Only in the sense of literal interpretation of the Abrahamic religions, but not entirely.
RationalPeace 2 years ago
Just because someone reads "The Bible" doesn't make them a Christian, and believing that the world might be billions of years old and that evolution does exist in a way doesn't say that someone doesn't believe in Creation as well, or can't. God's time is not our time, so I say teach "Intelligent Design" and "Evolution," and some will pick one side, some the other, and some may marry the two ("God created evolution").
Like a scientist can see his work as learning more about their God.
wesleywildcat84 2 years ago
Okay you may possibly have a point, but I must say....it has nothing to do with my question to Lee...lol
RationalPeace 2 years ago
I agree with you 100% that college teaches people HOW to learn. I recently graduated with one of those "worthless degrees" but I still feel that I am better off because of it simply because I know how to learn now and if I want I can go back and get a more marketable degree that I probably would have failed in if I had attempted it my first go around.
bigbrownanimal 2 years ago
You can get a decent job with an anthropology, or psychology degree. they are not considered "hard sciences"
EmperorBarbarosa 2 years ago
Basic Economics is The Selfish Gene for economics: best analogy ever. You rock man.
littlebier8 2 years ago
GO BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
reggiokid9 2 years ago
Very insightful. I'm going back to college once I make enough money.
bsharker 2 years ago
lee this is the kind of stupid pandering i expect from you. good job!
on a side note, am i the only one that finds it utterly hilarious that thundertARd is walking around like a wwf tag-team manager from the 80's during that video?? not to mention the ultra cheesy green screen background. god that video was funny.
oiuoiu988 2 years ago 2
He needs to snuff out the cheek beard growth.
tubaboy71 2 years ago
yea i never really noticed the hair growing out of weird places on his face until that video, i think ive only seen him in 1 other vid though.
oiuoiu988 2 years ago
Cheek beard the pirate.
tubaboy71 2 years ago
teen wolf all grown up?? omg that just made me realize a video of him playing basketball would make me laugh myself to death.
oiuoiu988 2 years ago
While it's true that a great doctor or engineer can be produced outside of our current education system, the question of them actually getting a job without the degree is questionable. At least with the way things are set up now.
schmotzypotz 2 years ago
Comment removed
tubaboy71 2 years ago
well the engineer would get a job with no problem if he was good at it. unfortunately doctor's arent allowed to work without an accredited degree.
oiuoiu988 2 years ago
Yes, I have heard of them. I actually mentioned them in my comment.
schmotzypotz 2 years ago
I agree. A doctor or an engineer needs a college education in order to work in their field.
I studied fine art, which needless to say, doesn't lead to a lot of career choices. Nevertheless I, personally, benefited a great deal from completing my degree.
I wish we could resurrect the idea of trade schools or apprenticeships. I suppose for this to work we would need more "masters", and I don't mean people with the degree.
schmotzypotz 2 years ago
If you think doctors and engineers cannot be produced without a college education, think again. Have you heard of Apprenticeship? You become the apprentice of a reputed doctor or engineer, who you learn and work with tell they are confident that you can go alone and lets you know that in writing. The better the reputation, the more your skill gets recognized, i.e until you build your own reputation. There is no class room used. No mass production. Class rooms trade quality for quantity.
82abhilash 2 years ago
Name a doctor that got there because of an apprenticeship.
ctlaurin 2 years ago
Apprenticeship is not practiced these days because you have one person teaching one, maybe two people. He may teach them well, but he is not teaching many people. Class rooms may not teach everyone well, but there is quantity. Quantity over quality was preferred in the twentieth century. But in the 19th century, you could still become a doctor, lawyer, engineer through apprenticeship. You may have to sit for the exam to get your degree or pass the bar.
82abhilash 2 years ago
In my personal opinion i have recently discovered how great self-education can be. I favor self-education over college. Self- education stems from two sources: Reading and the Internet. When you self-educate you can teach yourself anything within your own interest as well as how much.
Whereas college on the other hand, you are forced to take certain classes you may not enjoy for credits and can end up hurting the best learning experience possible. Most importantly, self education is free
altamuramarc 2 years ago
Thunderf00t was projecting extreme bitterness the way he made his two videos. Using dubious arguments he was trying to create a false dichotomy type of situation when there wan not one. I suppose that is what you get when you are solely a product of the formal education and did not learn for yourself as well. Like Lee did, when he learned economics for himself and Law at college. It makes sense. Traditionally the teaching establishment vehemently resists competition.
82abhilash 2 years ago
Think about it. Would the teacher's union ever want you to know that you can get educated without their help?
82abhilash 2 years ago
I never went to college in my life...though I did work in one for 2 months.
With the way the college is run by extreme doses of psychonutism, I'm glad I didn't go.
THEsquirrel3d 2 years ago
Oh crap, not again.
My college degrees have not helped me one bit, in the real world. I have had to work hard and learn things and do jobs that have had no relation to my college education. If I had that college money back, I would be far better off now, and richer.
If I could go back in time, first thing I would change.
ShereKhanTiger 2 years ago
There used to be a time when the sum total of all human learning was contained with an university. Those days are long gone. The education system has plenty of room for innovation. The trouble is, its rigidity is present by design. And the purpose of the design was primarily to fulfill a state agenda and to restrict education to those that can meet the state constraints. Those contraints remain, but the monopoly these instituions used to have is fast disappearing.
82abhilash 2 years ago