Dogfights: Supersonic - Phil Handley

[esacjack]

its an f4d according to phil.

[RichKilla86ers]

Never say never to rotary cannon. Lessons learned in Nam.

[prowlus]

@thelleht

surprised they still had AIM-4s at that time and stuck them on the poor F-4e . Did they run out of Aim-9s at that time?

[overlord77ful]

@thelleht yeah,those missile we're a dim as the night

[overlord77ful]

that the biggest mistake of the U.S. in dsigning th F-4E,no guns!

[n74jw]

I didn't think a gun was effective at supersonic speeds. F-4C/D' could have a 20mm gun pod fitted under the aircraft, in the centerline station.

[covingtonium]

Goddamn this is so fucking badass! I should have joined the air force! :D

[captnav135]

The story is all true, and I was close by, and involved in refueling Lt. Col. Handley & Lt. Jack Smallwood only a few minutes after the event, and beleive me what is told is all true. Jack (Karst) was a valued friend, and all who knew him will never forget him.

Lt. Col. Handley's wing man Brenda 2 still owes my crew a beer for the "Save" we made that same day just a few minutes earlier.

[LethalPenguin92]

I love this show!

[Sueeln64]

SWEET!

[lordmonstermags]

why 240p f@cking gay dude........

[bigbengamer]

why did you have to butcher the video? lame...

[CVKent317]

I'm surprised you'd see condensation on the wings at supersonic speed

[michael747400]

NICE!!!!

[jamesW849]

its called the flight recorder would have recored the kill so he is not full of it, its a conferimed kill

[MajSolo]

I mean, except for the decision to remove guns from the fighters many strategies AFTER 1970 has been sound.

I mean I heared the NAMES of people participating in the Apollo project or the manhattan project.

But I NEVER heared the name of those brainy guys who removed the guns from the new jests.

I guess dead pilots 4 feet under, veterans, and new pilots wonder the same .... who were these guys .... their names please??!??

[MajSolo]

During the years I grown some respect of some of U.S.A.F trategies and actual experience from a wide varitey of theatres on what is needed to become successful in ACTUAL combat. Aces and newbies. They want them all to make kills.

And how do you do that?

I don't care if the caliber on U.S. weapons go up, but, I am (pretty) sure they never will let rate of fire go down.

[MajSolo]

I see I wrote wrong .... sorry. I hope you smile.

What I want to point at ... lower caliber higher rate of fire is what makes the day end up like a very nice day with beatiful weather ...

[dannyboy673]

the guns that were added was not a lower caliber it is a 20mm Gatling almost twice as big as a 50 cal and the gun used was the M61 Vulcan 20mm Gatling it can shot 6000 rounds a minute so they had more, bigger, heavier and faster rounds on target

[MajSolo]

yes, but , what I am saying is , IF, U.S. forces have 10 guns types to go for they will go for rate of fire. BUT, they will also analyze the weight of the "lead" the gun can put out per second. Weight = harm. It isn't the caliber they prefer but rate of fire and the total weight of all lead put into the air.

---

Some people accuse the M61 for being inaccurate .. well, it was on purpose, like a buck shot, how do you make newbies and aces successful in wild combat with the same hardware,. M61

[MajSolo]

and since it is so inaccurate it prolly is a good tool to strafe the jungle with.

[MajSolo]

if it is like the vid shows it really is a GREAT shot ...... he could have been firing 800 feet above or 800 feet below the taargets plane of turn .... as it happens, he hit it , and I can understand .... everybody who saw it said "way to go" ....

There was TOO high speeds involved here, and all that could solve it it American strategy in designing weapons ...

You just remeber that for any future conflict!

I am trying to give you something here!

[MajSolo]

Sorry guys, another comment:

This F-4 pilot REALLY has his horns out. If you think about everything fuel management, etc etc, forget life! Lets go for the kill!!! :) ( that guy is at least half crazy ( with love ) ))

[MajSolo]

I just have to add if someone will comment on my comments ....

A gatling is better than a cannon. How much lead per second they put in the air I don't remember but the importance is to get some hit whatsoever on the enemy to criple him some .... after that you can send another burst when he i crippled, and after that you can send in the final burst.

In any case, I scratch my head, those airforces that goes for the opposite!!??!!

What are they thinking???

rate of fire above cal

[MajSolo]

Anyways, this guy is no bullshit, ( sorry for the language ) it is just that he only ( like other aces ) only says the critical words ( which is similar to how they need to think in combat ) fuel management , angles, turn rate, etc. I do like him for how he decribes his recollection of this fight.

( in any case , just listen to those who were there and make notes :) )

well I just like these U.S. pilots ....

Cause their harware is not perfect but they keep fighting and make it work!!!!

[rokoescarto]

Jesus!!! This is damn exiting!!!

[Gameday2159]

when is this show on the history channel?

[xXCloudKunXx]

0:09 Hahahahah, his last name is Smallwood. hahaha.

[adrastea99]

First and only recorded gun kill at supersonic speed?

What about the mirage III kill?

[MajSolo]

How about just setteling for it was the first recorded supersonic gun kill.

Mirage III ..... what age is that aircraft from ????

Anyways, this is the same for ALL U.S. aircraft since WWII, they like high firing rate above the size of the caliber of the rounds shot.

And when you come in , in a high speed as this, according to the documentary anyway, he is trying a blind shot, geez, it is only fire rate of finer calber that would produce a hit and not heavy canon shells.

Way to go!!

[adrastea99]

Actually Mirage IIICJ flown by an Israeli pilot scored a gun kill on a Syrian MiG 21 seconds after it breached Mach

Don't know why everyone is talking about this Phil guy, his stuff is moot because he fired two missiles beforehand so he could easily be lying

[pwnage0013]

F-4 had no gun they had to use a centerline mounted "pod" that was full of 20 MM ammo.

It worked!

[VigilanteAgumon]

The -E and -F had internal cannons.

[Naruto8849081]

hero :D so to say

[vtwinmesa]

why the hell moonshot , why not sunshot?

[maureencora1]

If the F-4s had guns we may had double aces in the Air Force and Navy in Vietnam Air War.

[chimichanga1254]

in the begining they didnt but then later they put them on

[54thAggressors]

Even when the F-4's put guns on there turn radius at operating speed is that of a mack truck without power steering, they are not meant to dogfight in ACM they are fast, unstable at low airspeed , they used way too much fuel, there medium range weapon systems were not sufficient for the role they were doing, this aircraft is a dog, a fast dog but not made to do anything great but do a few things good, this airframe design changed the way we make fighter aircraft

[ironfalcon100]

The tail code ZF.

What squadron did the F-4E Phantoms in Brenda flight belong to? The 58th TFS?

[maureencora1]

Sometimes I wonder what was worst in the U.S.A in the 1960s and 70s some of ours cars or air to air missles?

[VigilanteAgumon]

Missiles. The Sparrow only had an 11% success rate. I'm not sure if the Falcon was any better.

[Paulmichael9]

no way the falcons are any better th sidewinder is best

[MajSolo]

U R right the Falcons suck BIG time and the sidewinders were a little bit better. Who was it that told you Falcons were better? I think you can relax. Your perception is right.... Cheers

[Paulmichael9]

@MajSolo My friend said he thinks no gun means no gutts because i love the F-4 phantoms the F-16 flacon is what my friend's got i played with him in ys flight The F-4 was supersonuc I nearly over shoot him so I shoot him with my last sidewinder Its too late for him to react so he got killed doesn't mean no luck doesn't mean no luck. Cheers my friend loves to show off

[MajSolo]

Sims are great in that they teach u the basic stuff, you been there, you done the maneuvering you seen the angles and the difficulties in satisfying the conditions for a missile launch. Most sims thought perhaps ALL, does not teach you how it really works. But when you watch documentaries you will know what the pilots recalling an engagement is talking about. And who want to be without a gun. They are simply a great tool if u get into a close in dogfight, easier than trying to use a missile.

[Paulmichael9]

@MajSolo I know guns can be a great tool and srry made a mistake 'no gun doesn't mean no gut' Yesterday i went head with him Me flying G4M vs B-29 my simple tactics got him into trouble

[polarhusky4]

doesnt matter what we do, we will always go back to the gun when necessary... or wish we had them...

[oldmanzangetshu]

even if d external tanks are full do pilots always have to jettison it to engage.........due to weight!.......seems like wastage of precious fuel to me.........but then again it increases d chances of fire init?

[tommybship]

You cant pull as many gs....cant maneuver as sharply as you could. Weight also.

[mightycowhero]

gun never fails.

[dannyboy673]

guns can fail if the plane is under to many gs or sometimes just jam u see it a couple times in other episodes of dogfights

[YouT00ber]

depends... you got any candy in that van of yours?

[Fastwunz]

im sorry but this is just brilliant.

[markbart7]

It wasnt hundreds dieing because of no gun- it was mainly having to let kills go. Most American aircraft losses were from SAMs.

But the F4 was origionally built witht he idea that guns were obsolete, and missile would take out enemies before they could be seen, which is flawed, of course. The gun will always be necessary.

[kdraper2007]

True about the gun, Currently F/A-18E's & F's are using more gun Ammo then any other weapon. as the terrorists have learned to get really close to our troops before they attack & the gun is the best weapon for that kind of close in air support.

[nomad1545]

Really? Now that I din´t know. I always saw the F-4 a fighter whitout a machine gun.

[nomad1545]

What? An F-4 phantom whit a cannon? Since when?

[YouT00ber]

This was the F-4E, a later model of the F-4, which did have a 20mm gun in it.

Note this happened in 1972, which was late in the Vietnam war.

[acKarasawa]

did the navy have any F-4E's? because most of the navy phantoms i've seen only have guided missles.

[YouT00ber]

Just a guess, but chances are the Air Force got F-4Es, and the Navy had F-4A-D's, or sth like that, ie: Navy may not have gotten any, but the Air Force did.

I'd google for more, but I'm lazy. sorry

[VigilanteAgumon]

The A was the Prototype.

The Navy and Marines had the B, J, N, and S.

The Air Force had the C, D, E, and G.

The F was an export for the Luftwaffe.

[VigilanteAgumon]

Also, the -K and -M were exports for the UK.

[sakoshooter48]

@nomad1545 Ummmm, hello, McFly. Can you say F-4E.  Come on, get with the program boot!

[Sven828]

crazy good

[alielhaddad]

hey sven where is eight.

[unico]

lol accent

[LTDcunuk]

simply amazing

[Blue387]

Good shooting.

[Raywollesenfortes]

Nice shooting Phil! Hell, you just pulled a difficult shot off.. Superbly amazing! Splash one MiG!

[Raptor747]

Wait, so he's the ONLY one to ever score a gun kill while at supersonic speed? The only fighter pilot in history?

[jasthejasper]

The only one recorded by military or some other peopel.. there could have been a couple more, but it's difficult and requires luck and skill... =\

[KUNYSZZ]

Yes, he is the only pilot to score a gun kill at supersonic speed. The speed was about Mach 1.2, about 990 mph.

[KUNYSZZ]

Yes, he is the only pilot to score a gun kill at supersonic speed. the speed was about Mach 1.2, about 990-1100 mph.

[driftkingz109]

mach 1.2 is 1200km/h.

[KUNYSZZ]

Yes, Phil Handley is the only pilot to score a gun kill at supersonic speed at about Mach 1.2. that is about 990 mph. the plane he used was an F-4E, the gun-equiped version of the Phantom. The engines the F-4 had were two Pratt & Whitney J-79 turbojets and it has a whole lot of power.