@pigley17 No need to blush, really :-) Hearing a 22 years old brag about his bachelor mark in order to dismiss a whole field of philosophy is rather cute, it even excuses all the pedantry about the "fine literary devices" and so on...
true, but I suppose you are referring mainly to the western christian cultural space (basically to Europe a couple of centuries after Christ and then the two Americas).
Just think of the Athenian pederasty...
So gender has been done & undone numerous times throughout history, as Judith butler would probably say :)
The 'specie' of homosexual was first taxonomized in a medical journal in 1878. Neither the word, nor the essentialist identity connoted to a holder of homosexual impulse did not exist before. It was viewed as a character flaw, a weakness of spirit, an unhealthy activity, or, in more liberal societies throughout history, as a kink, an eccentricity.
And you haven't read my post. I am talking about subject-formation as it pertains to the rise of modern science, not 'the noble love of boys'. Nowhere am I suggesting that the Athenians or the Spartans didn't assfuck boys, mind you - that's Zack Snyder's job ;) - just that we now perceive, always-already, the 'homosexuals' in ancient Greece and the flaming queens on 'Queer Guy for the Straight Guy' as one and the same - a fallacy that your post seems to uphold.
@28g34ajbsd Very true. It's a pretty big challenge for us in our norms and conventions to really understand how the nuances of sexuality in Antiquity would have played themselves out. Flesh and Stone is a great read btw.
@28g34ajbsd So you don't mean Homosexuality at all, you mean camp behaviour which can occur in heterosexuals as well as homosexuals. Just keep going on in your deliberately obscure prose-excrement.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
This clip says it all: she has taken her own anxiety about discovering her sexuality as a teenager and projected it onto the population as a whole. I can understand that it must be unnerving to discover that you are gay in a repressive and sexually intolerant society. But sorry, sweetie, that doesn't mean the rest of us feel, or ever felt, the same way. This is just personal pyschotherapy elevated to some grand theory of sexuality. Rubbish.
You blithely and condescendingly speak for 'the rest of us.' Thus your accusation of Butler's theorising holds true for your own generalising. Your facile dismissal of her invaluable contributions, based soley on 'this clip,' evinces the same kind of intolerance, superficiality and unwillingness to examine contemporary society's double standards that has spawned Prop 8 (as well as ongoing violence against Lesbians, Gays, Transgendered and Bisexual people).
Oh, God, you sorry, sorry little victim. You have completely missed the point. Butler's glib theorizing is little more than personal psychotherapy, and pointing that out has nothing whatsoever to do with Prop 8, double standards or, for God's sake, violence against anyone. Stop gazing at your navel.
Even if she has drawn from personal experience and self-reflection, I don't see how that is any less insightful or more biased then, say, the dogmatic-received brain-science discourse, or, for that matter, Freud, not to mention the great conceptualizations such as that of the "underclass" which burdened sociology's discourse in the 50s and the 60s. What she is actually talking about is subject formation and any psychology scholar will tell you that what you feel is not your own feeling.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Yes, there is a word for such whining: It is traitor and the word Lesbian is no social stigma, at least Sappho was not stigmatized! There is a terrible image of Lesbians? Where does this stupid backward person lives, in some medieval dungeon? Disgusting! But she got a seriously limited personality indeed! I can bear her speaking about Hegel, this feeble little violet, growing in the way of the state, while being not very innocent...
@RationalEmotive: In answer to this insult I shall call you a knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggarly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, super-serviceable finical rogue; one-trunk-inheriting slave; one that wouldst be a bawd, in way of good service, and art nothing but the composition of a knave, beggar, coward, pandar, and the son and heir of a mongrel bitch...
She's gay. Though of course her sexuality need hold no sway on her arguements. Also as sex and gender are preformative, the question could be seen as a bit redundent I guess (when wondering why the thumbs down)
I don't think this commentary gains anything from lingering sentences from you metaphorically wandering about. Nonetheless it is interesting.
Typical Freudian pattern, where your feelings of unease with the subject express themselves in that you address an insignificant detail, in this case even wandering itself.
You recognize that Butler is full of integrity, but not yet have accepted this within yourself.
people are so beautiful when they're in their element
aidanweekes 6 months ago 4
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pigley17 1 year ago
@pigley17 Or... maybe, you, are a load of crap. But that's just a suggestion :)
IZn0g0uDatAll 6 months ago
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pigley17 6 months ago
@pigley17 Fascinating.
IZn0g0uDatAll 6 months ago
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pigley17 6 months ago
@pigley17 Please do. I really feel enlightened.
IZn0g0uDatAll 6 months ago
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pigley17 6 months ago
@pigley17 No need to blush, really :-) Hearing a 22 years old brag about his bachelor mark in order to dismiss a whole field of philosophy is rather cute, it even excuses all the pedantry about the "fine literary devices" and so on...
IZn0g0uDatAll 6 months ago
Comment removed
pigley17 6 months ago
@pigley17 What the fuck are you talking about?
I am a musician, you dumbass. Jesus...
IZn0g0uDatAll 6 months ago
Comment removed
pigley17 6 months ago
@pigley17 My god what a prick.
Hahahaha.
IZn0g0uDatAll 6 months ago
Thanks for uplaoding this - very interesting. If only my French was better!
TricycleTim 1 year ago
to 28g34ajbsd:
true, but I suppose you are referring mainly to the western christian cultural space (basically to Europe a couple of centuries after Christ and then the two Americas).
Just think of the Athenian pederasty...
So gender has been done & undone numerous times throughout history, as Judith butler would probably say :)
alecol2727 2 years ago
The 'specie' of homosexual was first taxonomized in a medical journal in 1878. Neither the word, nor the essentialist identity connoted to a holder of homosexual impulse did not exist before. It was viewed as a character flaw, a weakness of spirit, an unhealthy activity, or, in more liberal societies throughout history, as a kink, an eccentricity.
28g34ajbsd 2 years ago
Actually it did exist in Athenian culture, and Greek culture over-all. You have read too much Foucault and not enough history...
TheVirginQueenShane 2 years ago
And you haven't read my post. I am talking about subject-formation as it pertains to the rise of modern science, not 'the noble love of boys'. Nowhere am I suggesting that the Athenians or the Spartans didn't assfuck boys, mind you - that's Zack Snyder's job ;) - just that we now perceive, always-already, the 'homosexuals' in ancient Greece and the flaming queens on 'Queer Guy for the Straight Guy' as one and the same - a fallacy that your post seems to uphold.
28g34ajbsd 2 years ago
@28g34ajbsd Very true. It's a pretty big challenge for us in our norms and conventions to really understand how the nuances of sexuality in Antiquity would have played themselves out. Flesh and Stone is a great read btw.
dryan22 9 months ago
@28g34ajbsd So you don't mean Homosexuality at all, you mean camp behaviour which can occur in heterosexuals as well as homosexuals. Just keep going on in your deliberately obscure prose-excrement.
TheVirginQueenShane 2 years ago
Special thanks to redetrigan for this excellent and very personal video of Butler.
newfan7 2 years ago 19
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This clip says it all: she has taken her own anxiety about discovering her sexuality as a teenager and projected it onto the population as a whole. I can understand that it must be unnerving to discover that you are gay in a repressive and sexually intolerant society. But sorry, sweetie, that doesn't mean the rest of us feel, or ever felt, the same way. This is just personal pyschotherapy elevated to some grand theory of sexuality. Rubbish.
jclj9000 2 years ago
You blithely and condescendingly speak for 'the rest of us.' Thus your accusation of Butler's theorising holds true for your own generalising. Your facile dismissal of her invaluable contributions, based soley on 'this clip,' evinces the same kind of intolerance, superficiality and unwillingness to examine contemporary society's double standards that has spawned Prop 8 (as well as ongoing violence against Lesbians, Gays, Transgendered and Bisexual people).
tacopie310 2 years ago 6
Oh, God, you sorry, sorry little victim. You have completely missed the point. Butler's glib theorizing is little more than personal psychotherapy, and pointing that out has nothing whatsoever to do with Prop 8, double standards or, for God's sake, violence against anyone. Stop gazing at your navel.
jclj9000 2 years ago
Even if she has drawn from personal experience and self-reflection, I don't see how that is any less insightful or more biased then, say, the dogmatic-received brain-science discourse, or, for that matter, Freud, not to mention the great conceptualizations such as that of the "underclass" which burdened sociology's discourse in the 50s and the 60s. What she is actually talking about is subject formation and any psychology scholar will tell you that what you feel is not your own feeling.
28g34ajbsd 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Yes, there is a word for such whining: It is traitor and the word Lesbian is no social stigma, at least Sappho was not stigmatized! There is a terrible image of Lesbians? Where does this stupid backward person lives, in some medieval dungeon? Disgusting! But she got a seriously limited personality indeed! I can bear her speaking about Hegel, this feeble little violet, growing in the way of the state, while being not very innocent...
GreatGrumbledook 2 years ago
You are a turdhead.
RationalEmotive 2 years ago
@RationalEmotive: In answer to this insult I shall call you a knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggarly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, super-serviceable finical rogue; one-trunk-inheriting slave; one that wouldst be a bawd, in way of good service, and art nothing but the composition of a knave, beggar, coward, pandar, and the son and heir of a mongrel bitch...
GreatGrumbledook 2 years ago
redetrigan, can i know.. is she lesbian or straight please. i really curious about her.
rosyhappyalways 2 years ago
She's gay. Though of course her sexuality need hold no sway on her arguements. Also as sex and gender are preformative, the question could be seen as a bit redundent I guess (when wondering why the thumbs down)
benawl 2 years ago
I don't think this documentary gains anything from the lingering shots of her wandering about, etc. Nonetheless it is interesting.
Thank you very much for posting this redetrigan.
benawl 3 years ago
yeah i agree...and i can't stand the melancholy violins.
Seafead707 2 years ago
I don't think this commentary gains anything from lingering sentences from you metaphorically wandering about. Nonetheless it is interesting.
Typical Freudian pattern, where your feelings of unease with the subject express themselves in that you address an insignificant detail, in this case even wandering itself.
You recognize that Butler is full of integrity, but not yet have accepted this within yourself.
Thanks for making my day.
RationalEmotive 2 years ago