YOU FORM YOUR OWN OPINION???? 1ST MISTAKE...WHEN DID PAUL SAY THIS???? WHAT A IDIOT!!! LOL IM STILL WAITING 4 1 SCRIPTURE....YOU SOUND STUPID STOP TAKING SCRIPTURE OUT OF CONTENT
Very well done Veronica, To all those who claim and try to use the Bible to justify their claim,NO WOMAN PASTOR, with due respect, Are DEAF, DUMB, BLIND. Doth not nature itself teach you,? The only thing a woman CANNOT become is a MAN,
Show me any were in the bible were god use a woman to preach,you are mis interpreting scriptures,debra did not preach,or rule over man,why don't you read what god saids the role of a woman is in the scriptures,why do you say Paul was writing letters,when in fact he was filled with the holyspirit,led by god himself.
Rm 16 - Paul specifically tells the MEN and WOMEN church leaders present to ASSIST Phoebe the deacon (minister) , after he commends Phoebe for her invaluable work.
Junia is an aposte. Rm 16:7 Lydia and Priscilla are also church leaders. CHURCHES were held in hiding in other peoples HOMES. .
, Jesus never made any command that women could NOT be priests or preachers. Mary Magdalene btw is the FIRST preacher and heaven forbid - it was JESUS who made her so.
You keep saying "In my opinion" or "I formed my own"..... Lady please!! You cannot form your own, only RESPECT what ORDER the Most High YAH has set things and be OBEDIENT!!!! He NEVER EVER assigned a woman to be an apostle, evangelist, deacon, rev or anything close to it.... Somebody deceived you and they did a good job of it!!!
You are NOT called to preach: Like you said "I formed my own"
1 Timothy 2:11-15 says: 11) Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12) But I suffer NOT A WOMAN TO TEACH, NOR to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13) For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14) And Adam was not deceived, but the WOMAN BEING DECIEVED WAS IN THE TRANSGRESSION. 15) Notwithstanding she SHALL BE SAVED in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
You also mentioned that back then women were uneducated, that being the reason why Paul said to be silent if I'm not mistaken. If that's the case then many of the disciples of Jesus should not have been preaching or teaching because many of them were uneducated as well. That shows that education has nothing to do with qualifications for ministry.
In 1 Timothy, you can notice when Paul talks about the roles of women in the church he brings up right after that the situation with Adam and Eve and the transgression of the women, indicating that it is not based culture or time frame, but it is biblical.
With the women of the OT, we have to keep in mind that there were not many female prophetess throughout the OT and also that the OT is irrelevant when it comes to this topic for the simple fact that we are under a new covenant indeed, which means in a sense a new structure of God's people, which is the body of Christ. With Priscilla and Aquila, we have to keep in mind also that "They took him", meaning they didn't correct him publicly and it doesn't contradict Paul's teaching in 1 Timothy.
God uses men and women, but just in different ways. Paul never said a woman couldn't prophecy, but Paul did however say women should not hold leadership roles or teach within the assembled church. The bible didn't say anything about women not teaching other women and children, in fact it is encouraged. When he said women should be silent or quiet, he meant it in respects to the responsibilities of the roles in the church. A woman can engage in the bible with a man outside of church.
It is not a shock that you have this desire (Gen. 3:16). It is natural for women to desire to lead over men and take men roles. When it comes down to biblical truth, Paul says specifically what men and women are to do in the church.It wasn't cultural but biblical.If im not mistaken, you said Paul didn't know he was writing the bible and maybe so,but God did. Everything in the bible was written for a reason.God gives women gifts to be used in other ways in the church. Inbox me if u want more info
@BYRD1014 Take a closer look and you will see Paul was talking about the conduct,or rather behavior of women in church, women were not allowed to speak or even ask questions in the church, No serious Bible student can use this as reason to condemn women,becoming Pastors or Prophetess,Evangelist or what have you.
@Ekereku in 1 Timothey 3:12 I'm pretty sure he was talking about quietness with respect to the teaching responsibility that is limited in the assembled church, but if it did tell women to be quiet as in not talk at all, if it's the word of God then we should not have any problem with that. Why is that such an issue? Because society does things differently than the church? Maybe things can go on as they please in the world but in the church, we are to conduct ourselves in a different manner.
@Ekereku If you seen my earlier comments, i never "condemned" a woman prophetess or etc. When we say that God wouldn't forbid this or that, we are committing idolatry, making a God to suit ourselves.
@Ekereku Any serious bible student would know to look at a verse in it's context and in 1 Tim. 3, we find that after paul says these things he refers to Adam and Eve, implying that it is biblical.
@BYRD1014 I`ve read 1 Tim. 3 that shows, what the qualifications of a Bishop,and a Deacon must be,and the decorum of their wives.Now what has that got to do with what we are discussing. A WOMAN PASTOR.
@Ekereku Well, in general it is talking about qualifications for elders and overseers, which means a pastor would be included along with deacons and bishops sorry to tell you. Not just a "serious bible student" but any scholar will tell you that.
I dont see any comments here about women cant study and of course that would be erroneuos. I just hope that girl reads these notes and ponders the thoughts as we all agree the answer is yes just not in an ecclesiastical posistion over a man. nuff said!
That's good that u feel the call. But let's clarify things 1st. According to the Word, u CAN, MAY & r ALLOWED to preach, but ONLY to other WOMEN! NOT in mixed company! That, my dear, is Bible. U may teach & preach to women but not to MEN & women. When u preach, men may not be in the congragation. PERIOD! That is Bible. Study the word. U r still young & learning. Study to prove yourself WORTHY to preach what Jesus taught. Women are not to take the place of a man.
I appreciate that you want to preach and women preaching of course is allowed or what would be the point of you being a christian if you didn't share, now being a pastor in the body of christ is not the same. That scripture in timothy is cleary explained,, its not THAT you are women,its BECAUSE you are women. Adam was supposed to protect his wife and he didn't, Paul is saying women shouldn't because they are subjective(generally), this has NOTHING to do with equality just a different role.
I am not trying to agree or disagree with anyone's point. I am saying the whole concept of women can't preach makes absolutely no COMMON SENSE. Think about it.
Jesus picked MEN as apostles and desciples. Not women. Eve dis obeyed God in the Garden and then led Adam to sin. And now women want to preach in church, to take the place of a man? It's not Biblical!
@sirhood2 One of the first things I'm gonna say to Jesus when I get to heaven is "that bible was just too confusing". It left too much room for misunderstandings. You think God will judge us harshly for misunderstanding the bible?
Not allowing women to preach makes absolutely no sense at all. None what so ever. I believe This is a big misinterpretation of the bible. I have given this a lot of thought and it absolutely makes no sense. Why would having estrogen and not testosterone make someone not able to simply open their mouth and teach the bible. It makes no sense. God has given many spiritual women an unction to preach and teach. Makes no sense to hold back a gift for those that are well capable.
@higherground2050 becuase i heard that real god said that he don't want women preachers in his church becuase of women's evil tendacies from the garden of eden and the results to god show that if she betrayed man from the garden of eden than she would do it agian without the garden of eden ! ! ! ! !
@higherground2050 Well capable is one thing. Obeying God's word is another. It makes perfect sence NOT to have a women teaching men from the Bible. They's just start screaching and stuff. AARRRRGGGGGHHHH! No thanks!!!!
we can find thousands of good reasons for let the woman preach, nothing against to that from my side, but in order to do that God will have to be put aside, it is up to the woman to decided, remember the bible said do not trust your heart, “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”
Jeremiah 17:9, we can jump, run, fly, if you want but at the end of the day obedience is what God expect from us. God bless you
Women preaching can be glorifying to God, but it shouldnt be based on a feeling.
Feelings are waaay too fleeting to base my actions upon.
Also, the bible says women should not take leadership over men. (Not that we cant preach) and instead of just looking at the "culture" now and saying, well, women are leading men, we should look at what the Word might mean when it says that.
Like, search it out ( the entire Book) first before just saying Im going to believe what I want to believe.
@raquel40g Show me in the Bible, any part of it, where God Condones women preachers!! You can't, because it just isn't there! Jesus called MEN to follow him and stuff. Not women. Women can teach to each other, but not to men.
@TheGin151 You said it makes no sense that woman were not allowed to study? Sure they are. They can study and teach all they like. But they cannot teach to men. That is the whole point. Makes perfect sense if you study the word, cover to cover. NO WOMEN PREACHERS! Not ONE! NOWHERE in the Bible! Only Men!!!!
time period? Rev22;19. Where's your Chapters and verses? You said that you wonder what gives a man the idea that a woman should not preach in the church? well here it is{1Tim;12}
I understand the cultural perspective but you could equate that to anything. But I'm a woman and I don't think women should preach. My mom has wanted me too so bad. But God ordains you not man. You cannot fool God.
Do you wear pants? I wonder if you apply that "cultural" policy to clothing? I don't think Christians should change based on popular opinion.
It also says it in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Just because Joyce Meyers thinks its OK to disobey God's Word Does Not make it OK to follow her! Read Matt. 7:21-23 and just think what if God says that to anyone of you!
1 Timothy 2:11-15 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12But I suffer not a woman to teach, NOR TO usurp (or to HAVE) AUTHORITY OVER THE MAN, but to be in silence. 13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Paul did NOT want her 2 go preach it if she didn't know, JUST LIKE YOU! Paul was not speaking ONLY about way back than, but also of RIGHT NOW as we speak. Women are 2b silent in the church, and are not 2 preach 2 men, but they can in a women's class so they can talk if needed to be about anything private or personal! Besides that way you won't find a sick kinda guys neither making moves! But God gave Man the leadership in the church! just like all Presidents in the US were always men! hhmmmm
you are 18 yrs old and you think that you have discovered something new from something that is over 2000 years old. you insert so much opinion with absolutely no referances, no greek, no proofs. i would love to see you turn in a paper on this and see you get an f on your paper. is baylor turning out students that cant read, cant cite reputable sources, and cant read anything in context????
Were you referring to me being 18? I am in my mid fifties. I was back in University to continue studies 2009/10. I managed to get a solid B+ average.
Not that it matters, but this is NOT a University paper to be graded, and YOU are not the professor, so I will continue to approach YOUTUBE commentary in this way .... A CASUAL place to discuss things.
Perhaps you want to have references, ? if so, google many websites that are designed to discuss things in the bible.
so you are saying that your word is enough? it does not matter what 100,000 scholars spending 2000 years tudying it come up with because you know more than they. by the way, you do look real good for 50, i thought you were 18. who gets to pick and chose what is truth? jesus did not tell us to follow the ten commandments. he said they would be fofilled, he superceeded them out of his own mouth. it WAS WRITTEN...BUT I SAY UNTO YOU.
I never once said that MY word is enough. I tell people to CHECK it out for themselves. It is NOT my job to do other peoples homework or research.
In FACT those 10's of 1000's of scholars (are more like millions ) do still DISAGREE on some points and agree on others.
So NO one really has 100% truth or authority of the EXACT interpretations of the biblical history, That is WHY scholars still study, debate and bring up new points about the SAME bible.
still the reason professors have ou cite material is because if you wish to prove a point you need citable material. hey do it to train people so they know what they are talking about not just spouting dribble. see jesus spoke with authority and you do not. you deny the bible and its authority, i and no one else has not one reason to accept anything you say. prove your point, dont say i feel, i think. debate or stay on the porch
straight up, the head of man is Jesus and the head of woman is man. it makes no since at all that a man would be the head of a household but his wife is the head of the church. cut it out. and as of a women doin works, we are all called to do works but a woman is not called to lead a CHURCH. being a prophet and a pastor are 2 totally different things. u can teach women and kids and non believers, not THE BODY OF CHRIST. dont add or take away from the Word, cuz u can and will damn yourself
@anotheronem no they are not the same at all. a pastor may have prophetic experiences but a pastor is a shepard of a flock, his job is to teach and grow up babes in Christ to do the work of the Lord, a prophet simply prophecys, if u disagree show me in the Word
The DUTIES of a pastor and a prophet are distinct, but they BOTH have forms of AUTHORITY over others, which is PREACHING and BEING obeyed.
Moses was a prophet, as was Elijah, are they just nobodies? and only telling of prophetic experiences? No, they go hand in hand.
If people listen to a prophet and ABIDE by the vision, that is a FORM of teaching and others obeying the prophet, which is a form of being on a PULPIT, although not as long a time or moments.
@anotheronem Jesus had no female desciples either. he used 12 men to turn the world upside down. im not sayin women dont do works of the Lord, im sayin they have no position leading a church, unless that church is all women and children like the Word of God says. and be obedient to the man which is authority over them. Titus 2
Jesus had Women in his ministry right to the bitter end of his crucifixion and resurrection. Jesus breathed on the 12 in the room, according to what the men chose to right in scripture. But that does NOT prohibit women from being pastors. Otherwise NO other men on earth could be pastors because ONLY 12 men were first apostles. JESUS made NO mention that ONLY men could deliver the gospel.
The pentecost had men and women being anointed with the HOLY SPIRIT too and the list goes on.
@anotheronem so wat ur sayin is the Bible (God's Word) is lieing wen it says no scripture is for private interpretation, and its lieing wen it says ALL scripture is inspired of God, and wen it says the pastor shall be a MAN of one wife not a wife of one husband
Um, as far as Timothy goes (know written by Paul), he discusses a man of ONE wife because MEN had MANY wives back then. Why bring up the NUMBER of wives he can have.
Why bring this up at all in this fashion? The WORDING of that scripture reveals to us that he is talking about POLYGAMY.
Women were NOT allowed to have MORE than one husband so of course it will not mention a wife of one husband.
The bible is perhaps the most beautifully written book in our world. There are 1000's of different NOTIONS in the bible, some to do with the ancient JEWISH peoples journey,
Some has to do with BREAKING away from the mainstream JEWISH religion of 2000 years ago. The MAIN point is the coming of JESUS in the NT.
MORE than 30,000 DIFFERENT CHRISTIAN churches ALL based on the SAME bible.
If more than 30,000 DIFFERENT MEN leading a CHURCH say THEIR interpretation is the ONLY way?
The FACTS are this: the bible is being PRIVATELY interpreted ALL the time. The MEN do it in a GROUP setting (Church) or in bible study or in writing the bible.
The PRIVATE interpretations becomes PUBLIC interpretation when MEN MULL over things enough to FINALLY agree on what the SCRIPTURE means today.
If the bible was so CLEAR - we would have only ONE CHURCH and ONE congregation.
Which brings us back the the POINT of this video.
There is scripture that states WOMEN were leaders in the Church. Jesus did NOT deny women, but they were in his ministry from beginning to his death and resurrection. Mary Magdalene being the official FIRST gospel preacher if one reads that passage properly.
Acts has both MEN and WOMEN receiving the HOLY SPIRIT.
Rm 16 has Paul commending men and women church leaders, with emphasis on Phoebe (minister/deacon) and Junia (apostle).
So, in some respects of course men (you) are correct in saying that an anonymous author in books of Tim, Titus claim women cannot have those positions.
But, I and others are correct in saying, scripture STATES that women WERE indeed church leaders in Romans 16. JESUS did not deny women, but had many women in his walking ministries.
So we are both correct. So one of us has to PICK which one FITS MORE of what JESUS says. Both then and TODAY. For JESUS lives TODAY.
The bible is for all teaching or direction? then HOW come YOU pick and choose as do others.
If you eat pork or shellfish you are guilty of NOT obeying the BIBLE. The basic COUNSEL of JESUS CAN be followed, but the rest is for the most part NOT applicable TODAY.
It most certainly depends ON interpretation and emphasis. Otherwise YOU would emphasis Mary M as being the FIRST preacher and NOT worry about what an anonymous author says about CULTURE forms.
@anotheronem for ur info i dont eat pork or shellfish, and u show me where Jesus spoke against pork and shellfish, now u are contradicting urself and picking and choosing wat part of the Word u wanna believe. i bak up wat i say in scripture, no women have authority over man. and u say the basic counsel of Jesus can be followed like the rest of the Bible isnt about the Lord Jesus Christ. disobey God's order of his church and find out 4 urself, truth has be told, im washing my hands. God bless
1. THAT is MY POINT. I DO PICK and CHOOSE, it is CRITICAL to follow what JESUS says and what JESUS puts in our hearts.
2.. IF JESUS did NOT worry about cultural norms or customs, (WHICH he was a total radical against laws and norms) then we should NOT worry about those things either.
3. People PICK and CHOOSE what they want all the time in the bible. NOT one person can LIVE every single line in the bible. So WHO has the AUTHORITY to tell me or others WHICH LINE of SCRIPTURE to OBEY?
SO YOUR POINT IS i am better than him and no one can do what the bible says anyway so i will do what i want???? logic does alude you doesnt it. you know what you want so you feel god is a imbicile and that you are more powerful than an impident god that cant keep his word true because you refuse to take time to harmonize the bible. you look for what only you see as contradictions, you find some wacko that agrees and then you quote him and call him a scholar. isnt that
God is just fine. It is humans who screw up. Humans also screw up scripture understanding. Most times they cannot figure out what applies to our lives today versus customs or cultural ideals of Jesus time. Do you wear long robes or even a sackcloth like John the Baptist. Do you wear only sandels and take nothing but a light bag to towns like Jesus asked of his disciples?
We are to follow JESUS command to be good and LOVE GOD and ONE ANOTHER and follow the basic 10 commandments.
The bible was written over centuries of time by HUMAN men. WHO made mistakes at times. It is a good book and has lasted, BUT...... humans obviously made errors or misundertand HOW to live as a Christian regarding doctrine and dogma, seeing as there are over 30,000 DIFFERENT Christian Churches based on the SAME bible.
Do not attack me for having the ability to study history and the bible to discern what seems applicable today.
@anotheronem u say but Jesus said no such thing, but paul did 2Timothy 3:16 "all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS:" 2Peter 1:20 says no scripture is for any private interpretation, so to take the Word of God and make it fit as u feel need to is the adding or taking away from the Word and is condemning sin Proverbs 30:5-6 and Revelation 22:18-19
No, I do NOT say anything with AUTHORITY. I am scrutinizing what the BIBLE does say and lining it up with historical context, as well as what OTHER parts of the bible say.
Do people really understand 2 Tim anything. All scripture is for scrutiny, and discernment, and there is still NOT any one right way on SOME issues.
For ONE must discern what is cultural or what is from JESUS.
btw, books of Tim, Titus, Ephesians are almost 100% NOT written by Paul.
it is funny how 2000 years of people trying to pick apart the bible yet is stands. look you are right. denominations have denied it all the time. even though the bible condemns what you want to do, along with homosexuals and murderers and rapists and false teachers you and wacko people with a made up degree from univ. of never neverland say it is ok.
galtions speak about no matter if an angel from heaven comes speaking another gospel..well you my dear are an anathema
2000 years of people - mostly men = ARGUING over the bible. Otherwise ALL CHRISTIAN CHURCHES would be exactly the SAME.
Interesting that the most scolarly and well educated people in CHRISTIAN churches, the really high up people for the last 2000 years have argued, fought and divided the church.
The bible is a book well discussed - translations are still being questioned, as are the number of books to be included and so forth. ie apocryphal books.
The bible condemns rape, murder - of COURSE. BUT, the bible did NOT condemn rape and murder in the OLD TESTAMENT. EVEN MOSES commanded the rape, murder of innocent people from another tribe.
I NEVER said I condoned rape and murder. Not sure what you are spouting off about now.
As for homosexuality? Jesus discusses this and YOU people should LEARN what he MEANT in Matthew 19.11-12
When women disobey the Bible about preaching, compare their personal calling to do what they want to do with the video called "What Women Want is Worship".
sorry love but I don't read or type in personal channels,only on comment pages for all to see. all things be done in the light that it may be known to all. but i am interested in your comment so if u like u can cut and paste it here?
well not only paul said it because he said "as also says the law of Moses" Paul also said to acknowelge what I write is the COMMANDMENT of the lord. There were women doing great works in the bible but not in the CHURCHES the Key words are IN THE CHURCHES. Dear heart you seem like a nice girl but The Bible is the Bible I'm sure that gays feel the way you do but I won't say sorry for the bible because the Bible's perfect.
what women or girl out of the whole bible do you know that was a elders or preachers or apostles and a prophet is not aelder or preachers or apostles and prophet is a person that can see visions and dreams from God
and it says bold in your face that a man is suppose to peach, it says it all through the verses and it says you must be faithful to your wife and even if a male preacher doesnt have a wife he can if he wanted to a woman cannot and it says in the verses you must be head of your house hold because if your not head of your own how can you be head of Gods, and if a male peacher isnt married he is head of his home and if he does get married he still is, a woman can not be married and head of the home
i am saying this in love............the bible was written by God and Jesus an the bible is true, it can not be altered, the old testiment is like a history book that tells what happened back then,plus family tree that leads all the way to jesus and the new testiment is for us today, and the requirements for a peacher or elder is writen in 1 timothy 2, 3, and 4 which is in the new testiment
really there is nothing i can add that has not been said. paul explains exactly why women were not to be teaching or having authority over men in the church....eve ate of the fruit then tempted adam.now you disreguard 2 books in the bible because one rogue liberal scholar says so. look you will do it anyways, you seem set on doing it no matter what the bible say, no matter that 2000 years of theologians and scholars disagree with you. you would seem to be one of those women wanting to beincharge
Gen1 has a beautiful orderly - order of creation, with MALE and FEMALE created simultaneously in "OUR IMAGE" according to God.
Humans are LAST in creation AFTER everything else was created.
But in Gen 2 Adam is alone and animals are NOT yet created? AND we ALL know where babies come from and it is NOT a mans rib. It is a WOMB - from a WOMBAN. Woman.
Woman is the first cocreator of humans along with Gods DESIGN.
please...what does that have to do with anything. note thet man was created in gods image and women was created in mans. the order is clear, the bible says what it says, and either you argue with god or do what he has said. it is to bad that we throw out gods word just so you can do what you want. you have nothing telling you to preach and nothing allowing you to do so. no ground to stand on except you just want to be in charge. that is clear. who is the head of the house?
1. Gen 1 very carefully. male and female are created in OUR image the bible says. And they were created LAST of all creation and God rested on the last day.
2. Gen 2 CONTRADICTS Gen 1. woman is NOT made in the image of man at all. Otherwise she would have male genitals and facial hair etc.
3. Woman MADE and make men, otherwise MEN would BIRTH babies.
The BIBLE also says to KILL those who eat pork and shellfish. Which parts of the bible do YOU pick and choose to follow?
Men too, are in charge of their own bodies, minds and souls.
IF --man and woman wish to marry - then they become EQUAL partners in their HOME and for their children. BUT their LIVES (bodies, minds, spirits) are still their OWN to be in CHARGE of.
Learning the distinction is important.
As for women in "charge" of communities or countries or churches - they have that RIGHT too.
Even in the bible women were leaders. Amazing how men pick and choose, but we can too.
equal partners...is that what the bible says.....simple question, is that what the bible teaches???? or does it say that men are the head of the house?
διάκονος
diakonos
Thayer Definition:
1) one who executes the commands of another, especially of a master, a servant, attendant, minister
i realize you are having problems with context, you will have to get that fixed one of these days. it is much like apostle. it can mean an office created by christ or just someone sent
Gen 2:18 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him."
please notice man was created by god FOR man. to be WHAT? A HELPER, the word there is servant.
also neither are in charge of their bodies, please read 1 cor 7. i supose you think it is fine for a women to kill unborn children because she is IN CHARGE. we are dealing with inside of the church of christ not the church of you. if you wish to have your own church, ok
Gen 1:26 "Then God said, " Let us make mankind in OUR image, in OUR likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. "
i suppose you do not understand the differance between masculine, femine and nuetral. i also can see context is an issue. in the first chapter he gives a general overveiw then goes back in chapter 2 and gives specifics. if you think there are contradictions in gods word then you have bigger issues. so you get to pick and choose what verses can stay and what ones go...i am sure that changes all the time depending on what subject you are on
So, why did men get away with that huge stork fable for 1000's of years? because if people did NOT agree with the men in charge, the men in charge KILLED them.
So, which is it? Gen 1 is correct and Gen 2 wrong or Gen 2 is right WHICH automatically makes GEN 1 wrong. Either way YOU and others will have to deny parts of the bible as truth to agree with one or the other.
you have now denied the parts of gen. you have no bible left....you my dear have shown yourself to be the worst defender of your point of view i have ever seen. i have never known anyone to disregard the very thing that they wish to proclaim...you are a walking oxymoron....you contradict yourself more than obama wants bills passed without reading them. your logic is just not reality
i see the bible as a whole. it does not contradict itself. it is gods word. look if you say you believe there is a god and yet you think he is so wimpy that he can not give us a perfect word without mans pollutions then that god is a false god. that god is weak and must be corrected by you. that god has no way of telling us the truth. sorry my god gave us a perfect truth and in context it never contradicts itself. my god can beat your god
you say you do not deny any part of the bible then say you want to throw out gen. because you dont like it, you throw out titus, you throw away timothy...paul did not write this or that....you are the most ridiculous debater i have ever seen. do you read what you write before you send it. god is the author of scripture, you deny god and the very scriptures you want to preach and it is clear to all, that you are a power hungry person that does not care what god says
1. Do you condone Lot willingness to throw his daughters in the street to be gang raped?
2. Do you condone Moses commanding the death of women and children and kidnapping and raping of virgin women?
3. Do you condone eating pork and shellfish?
4. Did YOU bother to read the CONTRADICTION between Gen 1 and 2. One has to CHOOSE either or, for - they contradict each other. So it is not me rejecting the bible, but choosing to READ the bible carefully.
For if one REALLY reads the bible properly - they realize it is ancient MEN raping, pillaging and being really IGNORANT regarding women and children for many of the Old testament books.
If one really reads the bible, they KNOW full well that MEN wrote the bible, for ancient men, about ancient men, from an ancient male perspective.
WE are to believe in JESUS first and foremost - the God man who existed before the BIBLE was written.
@anotheronem wat the hell? where is that in scripture. women naturally have the wanting in their hearts to play the man role, that was told in Genesis wen God told Eve wat was to come for her sin. no man made this stuff up, God set up this order. how can a woman be over a man wen man was made the head of woman.
Gen 2 is is SEVERE contradiction with Gen 1. Go back and read my posts because I keep repeating myself.
When YOU and others prove that MEN birth babies, come back and expound on Adam and Eve ribs story. Until then we see the glaring HOLES in reverse order of creation to suit some random male agenda in Gen 2.
One either believes Gen 1 is correct or Gen 2. It is impossible to believe both are correct. Otherwise one has to admit one of those books is wrong.
wow you will just throw in your opinion and call god a jerk wont you. so please tell me what bible do you preach from since you rip almost every page out of yours. i see many here trying to show you and you just refuse because you say so. look lot cast his daughter out not god, no one asked him to he did it. why did he do it because he did not want the wrath of god opon him and his house. look gen 1 is god working in creation and gen 2 goes back and covers details as
@anotheronemgen 2 was moses going back to detail gods reason for creating everything. it was for us that we could tend it. moses shows how man just like the animals needed someone else as a helper and god gave it to him. i could point out many verses where god authorized women as slaves wives bought and little choice was given to women. are you ripping those pages out as well. in the end you have no bible to stand upon because you throw it all out and call it chauvinistic...
What do YOU call raping virgins, kidnapping virgins or children and women. What do YOU call killing innocent women and children? YES, you are darn right that those are pages I would LOVE to rip out of the bible. BUT< does that CHANGE that those things happened?
Do we do those things TODAY - well some people do. But we NO longer allow MEN to sanction such things by saying God told me to do it.
You cannot explain away the MASSIVE contradiction from Gen 1 to what exists in Gen 2. Gen 1 animals, vegetation are created PRIOR to humans.
Gen 1 God creates humans in OUR image AT the EXACT same time. . And says that THEY will rule over the animals etc. Gen 2 getting to name newly created animals for him is way out of line.
The big clincher - We all know where BABIES come from and that is a WOMB. Woman, and NOT from a man. Adams rib story came centuries after Gen 1 was relayed. Remember these are stories that were passed DOWN only by word of mouth for centuries.
Adam and Eve story has a huge agenda to control the peoples of that time frame who were honouring fertility goddesses.
How else would GOD become jealous? of whom or what? God is GOD and can do and control everything. It is MEN who are jealous.
@anotheronem you deny christ, the apostles, the bible and all things sacred so that you can just show who is in charge. i answered your questions will you go back and answer mine....
1. I NEVER, EVER - not once denied Christ. NOT once. Show me where I said any such thing - you will not find it! .
2. I never once denied the apostles. NOT once.
3. I never once denied sacred things, not once.
4. HOWEVER,
I, you, others throughout the ages have EVERY right to examine, scrutinize, study history and scripture.
Studying scripture, discovering more information that aids in understanding scripture is my and your right. Ergo your accusations are unfounded and rude.
@anotheronem Intellect and logic will definitely help you to navigate through those so called history books,but with the bible it is different, From your posts it`s clear that you see the bible as just an ordinary book. IT`S NOT and the reason why CERTAIN things appear to be contradictory or foolishness, is simply because you don`t have the Spirit of God. Check out 1st Cor. 2 ;9 - 16
1. I never ONCE said the bible was an ordinary book.
2. I know VERY well the source and history and reverence held regarding the bible.
3. The bible, however, is still a book with words from ancient men, who wrote LONG after JESUS died. Heresay.
4. The TORAH was written earlier (1350 years maybe) before Jesus. Not all of it, but piecemeal, and even then those word written down were 1000's of years AFTER those facts re: 6000 BC. aprox.
6. The bible is a marvel of literature and a peek into the minds of ancient bronze age men. But amazingly well written considering how long ago that was and that many MEN or women do not have good language or written skills even today.
7. Jesus never used a bible.
8. The bible does contradict itself in many places. DUE to the FACT that it was written by many authors over centuries (1000's) of years.
9. The bible first section is the ancient Jewish peoples journey and wanderings to discover God or distinguish God from nature. Ancient men, who were IGNORANT in spite of their written words for the most part.
10. Jesus came along and DISPELLED and did AWAY with ancient ignorance. Jesus said to stop killing, to NOT divorce (men were POLYGAMOUS)
Jesus said to love one another and treat one another as one would treat oneself.
@Ekereku I know VERY well what JESUS said and it is beautiful and we should FOLLOW JESUS. The Holy Spirit cannot be captured in a book (bible) but is outside the bible and comes to one when one turns their LIFE to Christ.
The problem is when men make the bible MORE important than JESUS.
Jesus defied the PHARISEES. Jesus picked wheat on the SABBATH, he ate with sinners. SOULS and relationship with GOD more than they worried about their fleshly desires or material things.
@anotheronem Do you believe in the bible? The reason why I say that is because if you want to make a distinction about who wrote what, the reason we know about Jesus is because one of his followers wrote about him. All scripture is God breathed.
@anotheronem Do you believe in the bible? The reason why I say that is because if you want to make a distinction about who wrote what, the reason we know about Jesus is because one of his followers wrote about him. All scripture is God breathed.
@anotheronem Do you believe in the bible? The reason why I say that is because if you want to make a distinction about who wrote what, the reason we know about Jesus is because one of his followers wrote about him. All scripture is God breathed.
You have some nerve or audacity to declare that I don't have the Holy Spirit.
Just because I don't follow the bible the way YOU or others interpret it, does not make me less a Christian. In fact it makes me an intelligent christian who does not follow MEN blindly.
There is nothing wrong with my comments or understanding of written words in the bible.
There is nothing wrong with my journey with CHRIST.
There is something wrong when people use subliminal or overt intimidation to say their way is the only way. Whereas, it is not. For there are over 30,000 different CHRISTIAN churches that all have almost the same bibles, but they interpret things a lot or a little different. Otherwise there would be ONE church and ONE Christian family on EARTH.
I also do NOT say I have the last word or am the authority. I view the bible as it is written.
Certain things ARE contradictory in the bible - blatant.
We do NOT kill people for eating shellfish or pork today. We do not stone people. Jesus does NOT give man made rules to be with HIM. He gives us freedom to TURN from sin and embrace HIM as our Saviour. Jesus does NOT mention restrictions for women. Jesus FREES all of us. Paul frees people in Gal 3:28.
Rm 16 has women as church leaders. Acts has men and women receiving the first WAVE of the HOLY SPIRIT at the pentecost.
Gen 3:16 To the woman he said, "I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."
...tell me is this verse in your bible or did you rip that one out too.
Tit 1:5 This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you--
Tit 1:6 if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination.
i have tons of new testament that will put the husband as the head of the church are those all false too?
@anotheronem This is the truth, it was because of Polygamy, that Paul said, husband of one wife. Because this was the order from the beginning. When God made male and female. God took one rib, not 4 ribs out of man. And then Jesus said, it was because of the heardness of your hearts that Moses did what he did. And even though God had set things in order with A/E, the mens hearts were only evil continously. There was no Law until, Moses and Abraham.
Thanks for you well thought out response. Although I do not believe in the Adams rib story. I do believe that Jesus was talking about not having more than one wife, in addition Paul took that topic up too and reiterated that men were to only have one wife.
Adams rib on the other hand? Well we all know that women birth babies.
Gen 1 and 2 contradict each other enormously. But that is not for this topic.
ok...i shake the dust off. galatians speaks of those that come with another gospel. first you disregard 1st and 2nd tim. now eph.. you have thrown out the whole bible and claim to have ultimate authority. you know more than 2000 years of orthodox christianity and every theologian and scholar up till the 18th century. you ignore facts and reality. history means nothing but the worst is gods word means nothing to you. repent....
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.” 29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. ...
.....They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so."
So let us examine the order of creation according to Gen 1. God created EVERYTHING before humans, even the animals and plants.
GOD addressed the humans as THEM and did not isolate out male only. But included female at same time.
The text does NOT isolate out a man in a barren lonely land,does NOT have a man naming animals. NOR have man forming a woman AFTER the fact out of his rib.
None of that in Gen 1 and in FACT male and female were created simultaneously in OUR image.
well seeing you have already reverted to profanity, and made a point that has nothing to do with the order of the way god wants things i am sure you have made my point for me. paul said it was man formed first, the women to be his helper. it was eve that was deceived and she decieved adam. the curse was then that the man shall rule over the women. not my words but gods. it was god that said you had to be a husband of one wife in order to be an elder.
Jesus did NOT restrict women either. Mary Magdalene is the FIRST preacher btw.
There were 12 male apostles that he breathed on - but JESUS never restricted anyone from delivering the gospel if they had the Holy Spirit.
If so, HE would have said so. But he sent out the 72 (who many biblical scholars say that these were couples of male and female. The pentecost - men and women. Rm 16 WOMEN are church leaders, which we would classify as priests today.
YOU FORM YOUR OWN OPINION???? 1ST MISTAKE...WHEN DID PAUL SAY THIS???? WHAT A IDIOT!!! LOL IM STILL WAITING 4 1 SCRIPTURE....YOU SOUND STUPID STOP TAKING SCRIPTURE OUT OF CONTENT
EmmanuelPFreeman 4 days ago
Very well done Veronica, To all those who claim and try to use the Bible to justify their claim,NO WOMAN PASTOR, with due respect, Are DEAF, DUMB, BLIND. Doth not nature itself teach you,? The only thing a woman CANNOT become is a MAN,
Ekereku 1 week ago
Go preach the gospel Sis
Ekereku 1 week ago
Show me any were in the bible were god use a woman to preach,you are mis interpreting scriptures,debra did not preach,or rule over man,why don't you read what god saids the role of a woman is in the scriptures,why do you say Paul was writing letters,when in fact he was filled with the holyspirit,led by god himself.
mrtricket 1 week ago
@mrtricket
Rm 16 - Paul specifically tells the MEN and WOMEN church leaders present to ASSIST Phoebe the deacon (minister) , after he commends Phoebe for her invaluable work.
Junia is an aposte. Rm 16:7 Lydia and Priscilla are also church leaders. CHURCHES were held in hiding in other peoples HOMES. .
, Jesus never made any command that women could NOT be priests or preachers. Mary Magdalene btw is the FIRST preacher and heaven forbid - it was JESUS who made her so.
anotheronem 4 days ago
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BYRD1014 1 week ago
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BYRD1014 1 week ago
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BYRD1014 1 week ago
You keep saying "In my opinion" or "I formed my own"..... Lady please!! You cannot form your own, only RESPECT what ORDER the Most High YAH has set things and be OBEDIENT!!!! He NEVER EVER assigned a woman to be an apostle, evangelist, deacon, rev or anything close to it.... Somebody deceived you and they did a good job of it!!!
Colls1870 3 weeks ago
Malachi 3:6
6) For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Colls1870 3 weeks ago
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You are NOT called to preach: Like you said "I formed my own"
1 Timothy 2:11-15 says: 11) Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12) But I suffer NOT A WOMAN TO TEACH, NOR to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13) For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14) And Adam was not deceived, but the WOMAN BEING DECIEVED WAS IN THE TRANSGRESSION. 15) Notwithstanding she SHALL BE SAVED in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Colls1870 3 weeks ago
You also mentioned that back then women were uneducated, that being the reason why Paul said to be silent if I'm not mistaken. If that's the case then many of the disciples of Jesus should not have been preaching or teaching because many of them were uneducated as well. That shows that education has nothing to do with qualifications for ministry.
BYRD1014 1 month ago
@BYRD1014 Amen!
GlorifyGod84 1 month ago
@BYRD1014 It seems I misunderstood you.or I mixed you up with someone else
Ekereku 1 week ago
In 1 Timothy, you can notice when Paul talks about the roles of women in the church he brings up right after that the situation with Adam and Eve and the transgression of the women, indicating that it is not based culture or time frame, but it is biblical.
BYRD1014 1 month ago
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With the women of the OT, we have to keep in mind that there were not many female prophetess throughout the OT and also that the OT is irrelevant when it comes to this topic for the simple fact that we are under a new covenant indeed, which means in a sense a new structure of God's people, which is the body of Christ. With Priscilla and Aquila, we have to keep in mind also that "They took him", meaning they didn't correct him publicly and it doesn't contradict Paul's teaching in 1 Timothy.
BYRD1014 1 month ago
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God uses men and women, but just in different ways. Paul never said a woman couldn't prophecy, but Paul did however say women should not hold leadership roles or teach within the assembled church. The bible didn't say anything about women not teaching other women and children, in fact it is encouraged. When he said women should be silent or quiet, he meant it in respects to the responsibilities of the roles in the church. A woman can engage in the bible with a man outside of church.
BYRD1014 1 month ago
It is not a shock that you have this desire (Gen. 3:16). It is natural for women to desire to lead over men and take men roles. When it comes down to biblical truth, Paul says specifically what men and women are to do in the church.It wasn't cultural but biblical.If im not mistaken, you said Paul didn't know he was writing the bible and maybe so,but God did. Everything in the bible was written for a reason.God gives women gifts to be used in other ways in the church. Inbox me if u want more info
BYRD1014 1 month ago
@BYRD1014 Take a closer look and you will see Paul was talking about the conduct,or rather behavior of women in church, women were not allowed to speak or even ask questions in the church, No serious Bible student can use this as reason to condemn women,becoming Pastors or Prophetess,Evangelist or what have you.
Ekereku 1 week ago
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@Ekereku in 1 Timothey 3:12 I'm pretty sure he was talking about quietness with respect to the teaching responsibility that is limited in the assembled church, but if it did tell women to be quiet as in not talk at all, if it's the word of God then we should not have any problem with that. Why is that such an issue? Because society does things differently than the church? Maybe things can go on as they please in the world but in the church, we are to conduct ourselves in a different manner.
BYRD1014 1 week ago
@Ekereku If you seen my earlier comments, i never "condemned" a woman prophetess or etc. When we say that God wouldn't forbid this or that, we are committing idolatry, making a God to suit ourselves.
BYRD1014 1 week ago
@Ekereku Any serious bible student would know to look at a verse in it's context and in 1 Tim. 3, we find that after paul says these things he refers to Adam and Eve, implying that it is biblical.
BYRD1014 1 week ago
@BYRD1014 I`ve read 1 Tim. 3 that shows, what the qualifications of a Bishop,and a Deacon must be,and the decorum of their wives.Now what has that got to do with what we are discussing. A WOMAN PASTOR.
Ekereku 1 week ago
@Ekereku Well, in general it is talking about qualifications for elders and overseers, which means a pastor would be included along with deacons and bishops sorry to tell you. Not just a "serious bible student" but any scholar will tell you that.
BYRD1014 1 week ago
@BYRD1014
Did you realize that JESUS never once refers to adam or eve.
anotheronem 4 days ago
@anotheronem I realize that, but his trusted followers who he gave authority to did.
BYRD1014 4 days ago
I dont see any comments here about women cant study and of course that would be erroneuos. I just hope that girl reads these notes and ponders the thoughts as we all agree the answer is yes just not in an ecclesiastical posistion over a man. nuff said!
judahbenhur1000 1 month ago
That's good that u feel the call. But let's clarify things 1st. According to the Word, u CAN, MAY & r ALLOWED to preach, but ONLY to other WOMEN! NOT in mixed company! That, my dear, is Bible. U may teach & preach to women but not to MEN & women. When u preach, men may not be in the congragation. PERIOD! That is Bible. Study the word. U r still young & learning. Study to prove yourself WORTHY to preach what Jesus taught. Women are not to take the place of a man.
sirhood2 1 month ago
I appreciate that you want to preach and women preaching of course is allowed or what would be the point of you being a christian if you didn't share, now being a pastor in the body of christ is not the same. That scripture in timothy is cleary explained,, its not THAT you are women,its BECAUSE you are women. Adam was supposed to protect his wife and he didn't, Paul is saying women shouldn't because they are subjective(generally), this has NOTHING to do with equality just a different role.
judahbenhur1000 1 month ago
@judahbenhur1000
sirhood2 1 month ago
Answer ... Nope
peitsch517 1 month ago
I am not trying to agree or disagree with anyone's point. I am saying the whole concept of women can't preach makes absolutely no COMMON SENSE. Think about it.
higherground2050 1 month ago
@higherground2050 its not what you think its what the Bible (GOD'S Final Authority) said about the order of the Church
lljayeee 1 month ago
@higherground2050 Please read John 17:20 / 1 Tim. 3 / Gal. 1:6-8
Jesus picked MEN as apostles and desciples. Not women. Eve dis obeyed God in the Garden and then led Adam to sin. And now women want to preach in church, to take the place of a man? It's not Biblical!
sirhood2 1 month ago
@sirhood2 Women are allowed to preach and teach in church but ONLY to other WOMEN! NOT in mixed company.
sirhood2 1 month ago
@sirhood2 One of the first things I'm gonna say to Jesus when I get to heaven is "that bible was just too confusing". It left too much room for misunderstandings. You think God will judge us harshly for misunderstanding the bible?
higherground2050 1 month ago
Not allowing women to preach makes absolutely no sense at all. None what so ever. I believe This is a big misinterpretation of the bible. I have given this a lot of thought and it absolutely makes no sense. Why would having estrogen and not testosterone make someone not able to simply open their mouth and teach the bible. It makes no sense. God has given many spiritual women an unction to preach and teach. Makes no sense to hold back a gift for those that are well capable.
higherground2050 1 month ago
@higherground2050 becuase i heard that real god said that he don't want women preachers in his church becuase of women's evil tendacies from the garden of eden and the results to god show that if she betrayed man from the garden of eden than she would do it agian without the garden of eden ! ! ! ! !
fairymairah 1 month ago
@higherground2050 Well capable is one thing. Obeying God's word is another. It makes perfect sence NOT to have a women teaching men from the Bible. They's just start screaching and stuff. AARRRRGGGGGHHHH! No thanks!!!!
sirhood2 1 month ago
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we can find thousands of good reasons for let the woman preach, nothing against to that from my side, but in order to do that God will have to be put aside, it is up to the woman to decided, remember the bible said do not trust your heart, “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”
Jeremiah 17:9, we can jump, run, fly, if you want but at the end of the day obedience is what God expect from us. God bless you
amx1234567890 1 month ago
Finally right biblical interpretation is a result of studying the entire book.
The New testament is the old testament revealed! The enitre book is in harmony with itself.
The letters Paul wrote are consistent with teaching from the old testament concerning the headship of (first Christ over His church) men over women.
A right understanding of the text comes from searching more than just the chapter and book we happen to be in.
raquel40g 1 month ago
Women preaching can be glorifying to God, but it shouldnt be based on a feeling.
Feelings are waaay too fleeting to base my actions upon.
Also, the bible says women should not take leadership over men. (Not that we cant preach) and instead of just looking at the "culture" now and saying, well, women are leading men, we should look at what the Word might mean when it says that.
Like, search it out ( the entire Book) first before just saying Im going to believe what I want to believe.
raquel40g 1 month ago
@raquel40g Show me in the Bible, any part of it, where God Condones women preachers!! You can't, because it just isn't there! Jesus called MEN to follow him and stuff. Not women. Women can teach to each other, but not to men.
sirhood2 1 month ago
That is not true that a woman were not allowed to study,that makes no sense!
TheGin151 1 month ago
@TheGin151 You said it makes no sense that woman were not allowed to study? Sure they are. They can study and teach all they like. But they cannot teach to men. That is the whole point. Makes perfect sense if you study the word, cover to cover. NO WOMEN PREACHERS! Not ONE! NOWHERE in the Bible! Only Men!!!!
sirhood2 1 month ago
time period? Rev22;19. Where's your Chapters and verses? You said that you wonder what gives a man the idea that a woman should not preach in the church? well here it is{1Tim;12}
miamicatdaddy1 1 month ago
I understand the cultural perspective but you could equate that to anything. But I'm a woman and I don't think women should preach. My mom has wanted me too so bad. But God ordains you not man. You cannot fool God.
Do you wear pants? I wonder if you apply that "cultural" policy to clothing? I don't think Christians should change based on popular opinion.
HisPhoenixCrusader 2 months ago
It also says it in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Just because Joyce Meyers thinks its OK to disobey God's Word Does Not make it OK to follow her! Read Matt. 7:21-23 and just think what if God says that to anyone of you!
onlyway2christ1 2 months ago
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1 Timothy 2:11-15 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12But I suffer not a woman to teach, NOR TO usurp (or to HAVE) AUTHORITY OVER THE MAN, but to be in silence. 13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Women are still having children today!
onlyway2christ1 2 months ago
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Paul did NOT want her 2 go preach it if she didn't know, JUST LIKE YOU! Paul was not speaking ONLY about way back than, but also of RIGHT NOW as we speak. Women are 2b silent in the church, and are not 2 preach 2 men, but they can in a women's class so they can talk if needed to be about anything private or personal! Besides that way you won't find a sick kinda guys neither making moves! But God gave Man the leadership in the church! just like all Presidents in the US were always men! hhmmmm
onlyway2christ1 2 months ago
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onlyway2christ1 2 months ago
you are 18 yrs old and you think that you have discovered something new from something that is over 2000 years old. you insert so much opinion with absolutely no referances, no greek, no proofs. i would love to see you turn in a paper on this and see you get an f on your paper. is baylor turning out students that cant read, cant cite reputable sources, and cant read anything in context????
jon083166 2 months ago
Were you referring to me being 18? I am in my mid fifties. I was back in University to continue studies 2009/10. I managed to get a solid B+ average.
Not that it matters, but this is NOT a University paper to be graded, and YOU are not the professor, so I will continue to approach YOUTUBE commentary in this way .... A CASUAL place to discuss things.
Perhaps you want to have references, ? if so, google many websites that are designed to discuss things in the bible.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@anotheronem
so you are saying that your word is enough? it does not matter what 100,000 scholars spending 2000 years tudying it come up with because you know more than they. by the way, you do look real good for 50, i thought you were 18. who gets to pick and chose what is truth? jesus did not tell us to follow the ten commandments. he said they would be fofilled, he superceeded them out of his own mouth. it WAS WRITTEN...BUT I SAY UNTO YOU.
jon083166 2 months ago
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@jon083166
I have NO photo on my channel.
anotheronem 2 months ago
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I never once said that MY word is enough. I tell people to CHECK it out for themselves. It is NOT my job to do other peoples homework or research.
In FACT those 10's of 1000's of scholars (are more like millions ) do still DISAGREE on some points and agree on others.
So NO one really has 100% truth or authority of the EXACT interpretations of the biblical history, That is WHY scholars still study, debate and bring up new points about the SAME bible.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@anotheronem
still the reason professors have ou cite material is because if you wish to prove a point you need citable material. hey do it to train people so they know what they are talking about not just spouting dribble. see jesus spoke with authority and you do not. you deny the bible and its authority, i and no one else has not one reason to accept anything you say. prove your point, dont say i feel, i think. debate or stay on the porch
jon083166 2 months ago
straight up, the head of man is Jesus and the head of woman is man. it makes no since at all that a man would be the head of a household but his wife is the head of the church. cut it out. and as of a women doin works, we are all called to do works but a woman is not called to lead a CHURCH. being a prophet and a pastor are 2 totally different things. u can teach women and kids and non believers, not THE BODY OF CHRIST. dont add or take away from the Word, cuz u can and will damn yourself
zoj33 2 months ago
@zoj33 check out my response on lljayeee channel
lljayeee 2 months ago
@zoj33
so says men.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@anotheronem no, so says men of God
zoj33 2 months ago
@zoj33 But Jesus does NOT say any such thing.
Pastor, prophet are the same thing for all intents and purposes. BOTH speak with authority to others in what they envision or see.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@anotheronem no they are not the same at all. a pastor may have prophetic experiences but a pastor is a shepard of a flock, his job is to teach and grow up babes in Christ to do the work of the Lord, a prophet simply prophecys, if u disagree show me in the Word
zoj33 2 months ago
@zoj33
The DUTIES of a pastor and a prophet are distinct, but they BOTH have forms of AUTHORITY over others, which is PREACHING and BEING obeyed.
Moses was a prophet, as was Elijah, are they just nobodies? and only telling of prophetic experiences? No, they go hand in hand.
If people listen to a prophet and ABIDE by the vision, that is a FORM of teaching and others obeying the prophet, which is a form of being on a PULPIT, although not as long a time or moments.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@anotheronem Jesus had no female desciples either. he used 12 men to turn the world upside down. im not sayin women dont do works of the Lord, im sayin they have no position leading a church, unless that church is all women and children like the Word of God says. and be obedient to the man which is authority over them. Titus 2
zoj33 2 months ago
Jesus had Women in his ministry right to the bitter end of his crucifixion and resurrection. Jesus breathed on the 12 in the room, according to what the men chose to right in scripture. But that does NOT prohibit women from being pastors. Otherwise NO other men on earth could be pastors because ONLY 12 men were first apostles. JESUS made NO mention that ONLY men could deliver the gospel.
The pentecost had men and women being anointed with the HOLY SPIRIT too and the list goes on.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@anotheronem so wat ur sayin is the Bible (God's Word) is lieing wen it says no scripture is for private interpretation, and its lieing wen it says ALL scripture is inspired of God, and wen it says the pastor shall be a MAN of one wife not a wife of one husband
zoj33 2 months ago
@zoj33
Um, as far as Timothy goes (know written by Paul), he discusses a man of ONE wife because MEN had MANY wives back then. Why bring up the NUMBER of wives he can have.
Why bring this up at all in this fashion? The WORDING of that scripture reveals to us that he is talking about POLYGAMY.
Women were NOT allowed to have MORE than one husband so of course it will not mention a wife of one husband.
anotheronem 2 months ago
I am not saying the "bible" is lying at all.
The bible is perhaps the most beautifully written book in our world. There are 1000's of different NOTIONS in the bible, some to do with the ancient JEWISH peoples journey,
Some has to do with BREAKING away from the mainstream JEWISH religion of 2000 years ago. The MAIN point is the coming of JESUS in the NT.
MORE than 30,000 DIFFERENT CHRISTIAN churches ALL based on the SAME bible.
Most of them have many things right.
anotheronem 2 months ago
BUT.....
If more than 30,000 DIFFERENT MEN leading a CHURCH say THEIR interpretation is the ONLY way?
The FACTS are this: the bible is being PRIVATELY interpreted ALL the time. The MEN do it in a GROUP setting (Church) or in bible study or in writing the bible.
The PRIVATE interpretations becomes PUBLIC interpretation when MEN MULL over things enough to FINALLY agree on what the SCRIPTURE means today.
If the bible was so CLEAR - we would have only ONE CHURCH and ONE congregation.
anotheronem 2 months ago
Which brings us back the the POINT of this video.
There is scripture that states WOMEN were leaders in the Church. Jesus did NOT deny women, but they were in his ministry from beginning to his death and resurrection. Mary Magdalene being the official FIRST gospel preacher if one reads that passage properly.
Acts has both MEN and WOMEN receiving the HOLY SPIRIT.
Rm 16 has Paul commending men and women church leaders, with emphasis on Phoebe (minister/deacon) and Junia (apostle).
anotheronem 2 months ago
So, in some respects of course men (you) are correct in saying that an anonymous author in books of Tim, Titus claim women cannot have those positions.
But, I and others are correct in saying, scripture STATES that women WERE indeed church leaders in Romans 16. JESUS did not deny women, but had many women in his walking ministries.
So we are both correct. So one of us has to PICK which one FITS MORE of what JESUS says. Both then and TODAY. For JESUS lives TODAY.
God Bless.
anotheronem 2 months ago
The bible is for all teaching or direction? then HOW come YOU pick and choose as do others.
If you eat pork or shellfish you are guilty of NOT obeying the BIBLE. The basic COUNSEL of JESUS CAN be followed, but the rest is for the most part NOT applicable TODAY.
It most certainly depends ON interpretation and emphasis. Otherwise YOU would emphasis Mary M as being the FIRST preacher and NOT worry about what an anonymous author says about CULTURE forms.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@anotheronem for ur info i dont eat pork or shellfish, and u show me where Jesus spoke against pork and shellfish, now u are contradicting urself and picking and choosing wat part of the Word u wanna believe. i bak up wat i say in scripture, no women have authority over man. and u say the basic counsel of Jesus can be followed like the rest of the Bible isnt about the Lord Jesus Christ. disobey God's order of his church and find out 4 urself, truth has be told, im washing my hands. God bless
zoj33 2 months ago
1. THAT is MY POINT. I DO PICK and CHOOSE, it is CRITICAL to follow what JESUS says and what JESUS puts in our hearts.
2.. IF JESUS did NOT worry about cultural norms or customs, (WHICH he was a total radical against laws and norms) then we should NOT worry about those things either.
3. People PICK and CHOOSE what they want all the time in the bible. NOT one person can LIVE every single line in the bible. So WHO has the AUTHORITY to tell me or others WHICH LINE of SCRIPTURE to OBEY?
anotheronem 2 months ago
@anotheronem
SO YOUR POINT IS i am better than him and no one can do what the bible says anyway so i will do what i want???? logic does alude you doesnt it. you know what you want so you feel god is a imbicile and that you are more powerful than an impident god that cant keep his word true because you refuse to take time to harmonize the bible. you look for what only you see as contradictions, you find some wacko that agrees and then you quote him and call him a scholar. isnt that
jon083166 2 months ago
God is just fine. It is humans who screw up. Humans also screw up scripture understanding. Most times they cannot figure out what applies to our lives today versus customs or cultural ideals of Jesus time. Do you wear long robes or even a sackcloth like John the Baptist. Do you wear only sandels and take nothing but a light bag to towns like Jesus asked of his disciples?
We are to follow JESUS command to be good and LOVE GOD and ONE ANOTHER and follow the basic 10 commandments.
anotheronem 2 months ago
Where did I say I am better than God? Where?
The bible was written over centuries of time by HUMAN men. WHO made mistakes at times. It is a good book and has lasted, BUT...... humans obviously made errors or misundertand HOW to live as a Christian regarding doctrine and dogma, seeing as there are over 30,000 DIFFERENT Christian Churches based on the SAME bible.
Do not attack me for having the ability to study history and the bible to discern what seems applicable today.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@anotheronem u say but Jesus said no such thing, but paul did 2Timothy 3:16 "all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS:" 2Peter 1:20 says no scripture is for any private interpretation, so to take the Word of God and make it fit as u feel need to is the adding or taking away from the Word and is condemning sin Proverbs 30:5-6 and Revelation 22:18-19
zoj33 2 months ago
@zoj33
No, I do NOT say anything with AUTHORITY. I am scrutinizing what the BIBLE does say and lining it up with historical context, as well as what OTHER parts of the bible say.
Do people really understand 2 Tim anything. All scripture is for scrutiny, and discernment, and there is still NOT any one right way on SOME issues.
For ONE must discern what is cultural or what is from JESUS.
btw, books of Tim, Titus, Ephesians are almost 100% NOT written by Paul.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@anotheronem
it is funny how 2000 years of people trying to pick apart the bible yet is stands. look you are right. denominations have denied it all the time. even though the bible condemns what you want to do, along with homosexuals and murderers and rapists and false teachers you and wacko people with a made up degree from univ. of never neverland say it is ok.
galtions speak about no matter if an angel from heaven comes speaking another gospel..well you my dear are an anathema
jon083166 2 months ago
@jon083166
2000 years of people - mostly men = ARGUING over the bible. Otherwise ALL CHRISTIAN CHURCHES would be exactly the SAME.
Interesting that the most scolarly and well educated people in CHRISTIAN churches, the really high up people for the last 2000 years have argued, fought and divided the church.
The bible is a book well discussed - translations are still being questioned, as are the number of books to be included and so forth. ie apocryphal books.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@jon083166
Oh and how funny that you tend to write very poorly and not use proper punctuation, yet you try to worry about how I am writing? Wow.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@jon083166
The bible condemns rape, murder - of COURSE. BUT, the bible did NOT condemn rape and murder in the OLD TESTAMENT. EVEN MOSES commanded the rape, murder of innocent people from another tribe.
I NEVER said I condoned rape and murder. Not sure what you are spouting off about now.
As for homosexuality? Jesus discusses this and YOU people should LEARN what he MEANT in Matthew 19.11-12
anotheronem 2 months ago
When women disobey the Bible about preaching, compare their personal calling to do what they want to do with the video called "What Women Want is Worship".
vincent15641 3 months ago
@vincent15641 check out my response on lljayeee channel
lljayeee 2 months ago
sorry love but I don't read or type in personal channels,only on comment pages for all to see. all things be done in the light that it may be known to all. but i am interested in your comment so if u like u can cut and paste it here?
miamicatdaddy1 3 months ago
God bless you, honey! :)
Janochka777 3 months ago
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lljayeee 3 months ago
Obey God little sis.
LadyNemesis2007 3 months ago
@LadyNemesis2007 check out my response on lljayeee channnel
lljayeee 3 months ago
well not only paul said it because he said "as also says the law of Moses" Paul also said to acknowelge what I write is the COMMANDMENT of the lord. There were women doing great works in the bible but not in the CHURCHES the Key words are IN THE CHURCHES. Dear heart you seem like a nice girl but The Bible is the Bible I'm sure that gays feel the way you do but I won't say sorry for the bible because the Bible's perfect.
miamicatdaddy1 3 months ago
@miamicatdaddy1 chech out my response on lljayeee channel
lljayeee 3 months ago
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Checkmate Christian - Got Ya! Type the title below into the YouTube search box above.
"Pac Biggie - Holy Bible - Genesis is FALSE according to Yale University!"
pacbiggiecom 3 months ago
i hope this was helpful and i will be praying that Jesus chance you heart on this subject.......love u
essence648 3 months ago
what women or girl out of the whole bible do you know that was a elders or preachers or apostles and a prophet is not aelder or preachers or apostles and prophet is a person that can see visions and dreams from God
essence648 3 months ago
and it says bold in your face that a man is suppose to peach, it says it all through the verses and it says you must be faithful to your wife and even if a male preacher doesnt have a wife he can if he wanted to a woman cannot and it says in the verses you must be head of your house hold because if your not head of your own how can you be head of Gods, and if a male peacher isnt married he is head of his home and if he does get married he still is, a woman can not be married and head of the home
essence648 3 months ago
i am saying this in love............the bible was written by God and Jesus an the bible is true, it can not be altered, the old testiment is like a history book that tells what happened back then,plus family tree that leads all the way to jesus and the new testiment is for us today, and the requirements for a peacher or elder is writen in 1 timothy 2, 3, and 4 which is in the new testiment
essence648 3 months ago
really there is nothing i can add that has not been said. paul explains exactly why women were not to be teaching or having authority over men in the church....eve ate of the fruit then tempted adam.now you disreguard 2 books in the bible because one rogue liberal scholar says so. look you will do it anyways, you seem set on doing it no matter what the bible say, no matter that 2000 years of theologians and scholars disagree with you. you would seem to be one of those women wanting to beincharge
jon083166 4 months ago
Gen1 has a beautiful orderly - order of creation, with MALE and FEMALE created simultaneously in "OUR IMAGE" according to God.
Humans are LAST in creation AFTER everything else was created.
But in Gen 2 Adam is alone and animals are NOT yet created? AND we ALL know where babies come from and it is NOT a mans rib. It is a WOMB - from a WOMBAN. Woman.
Woman is the first cocreator of humans along with Gods DESIGN.
anotheronem 3 months ago
@anotheronem
please...what does that have to do with anything. note thet man was created in gods image and women was created in mans. the order is clear, the bible says what it says, and either you argue with god or do what he has said. it is to bad that we throw out gods word just so you can do what you want. you have nothing telling you to preach and nothing allowing you to do so. no ground to stand on except you just want to be in charge. that is clear. who is the head of the house?
jon083166 3 months ago
@jon083166
1. Gen 1 very carefully. male and female are created in OUR image the bible says. And they were created LAST of all creation and God rested on the last day.
2. Gen 2 CONTRADICTS Gen 1. woman is NOT made in the image of man at all. Otherwise she would have male genitals and facial hair etc.
3. Woman MADE and make men, otherwise MEN would BIRTH babies.
The BIBLE also says to KILL those who eat pork and shellfish. Which parts of the bible do YOU pick and choose to follow?
anotheronem 3 months ago
As for your lame comment that I just want to "be in charge"? what the hell kind of statement is that.
It has to do with a womans GOD GIVEN right to be IN CHARGE of her own body, mind and soul, with the aid of CHRIST (Holy Spirit).
Man does NOT have a right over her body, mind and soul. A man does not live in her body.
in FACT a MAN is FORMED in a womans body, before HE can have life.
anotheronem 3 months ago
Men too, are in charge of their own bodies, minds and souls.
IF --man and woman wish to marry - then they become EQUAL partners in their HOME and for their children. BUT their LIVES (bodies, minds, spirits) are still their OWN to be in CHARGE of.
Learning the distinction is important.
As for women in "charge" of communities or countries or churches - they have that RIGHT too.
Even in the bible women were leaders. Amazing how men pick and choose, but we can too.
Rm 16
anotheronem 3 months ago
@anotheronem
equal partners...is that what the bible says.....simple question, is that what the bible teaches???? or does it say that men are the head of the house?
διάκονος
diakonos
Thayer Definition:
1) one who executes the commands of another, especially of a master, a servant, attendant, minister
i realize you are having problems with context, you will have to get that fixed one of these days. it is much like apostle. it can mean an office created by christ or just someone sent
jon083166 3 months ago
@anotheronem
Gen 2:18 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him."
please notice man was created by god FOR man. to be WHAT? A HELPER, the word there is servant.
also neither are in charge of their bodies, please read 1 cor 7. i supose you think it is fine for a women to kill unborn children because she is IN CHARGE. we are dealing with inside of the church of christ not the church of you. if you wish to have your own church, ok
jon083166 3 months ago
@jon083166
Again, you are NOT answering the question.
Genesis 1 CONTRADICTS Gen 2.
Gen 1:26 "Then God said, " Let us make mankind in OUR image, in OUR likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. "
anotheronem 3 months ago
@anotheronem
i suppose you do not understand the differance between masculine, femine and nuetral. i also can see context is an issue. in the first chapter he gives a general overveiw then goes back in chapter 2 and gives specifics. if you think there are contradictions in gods word then you have bigger issues. so you get to pick and choose what verses can stay and what ones go...i am sure that changes all the time depending on what subject you are on
jon083166 3 months ago
Gen 2 is NOT giving any specifics other than a male bias extreme story. Gen 2 is OUT of order according the Gen 1 in creation.
Animals and plants were created PRIOR to humans in Gen 1.
Ergo Adam could not have been put in a barren land ALL by himself. NOT at all.
He could NOT have named animals to be his companions if they EXISTED before he was created either.
And for SURE NO woman was ever BORN out of a man, his body or rib.
anotheronem 3 months ago
BUT we do know that WOMEN birth babies.
So, why did men get away with that huge stork fable for 1000's of years? because if people did NOT agree with the men in charge, the men in charge KILLED them.
So, which is it? Gen 1 is correct and Gen 2 wrong or Gen 2 is right WHICH automatically makes GEN 1 wrong. Either way YOU and others will have to deny parts of the bible as truth to agree with one or the other.
anotheronem 3 months ago
@anotheronem
you have now denied the parts of gen. you have no bible left....you my dear have shown yourself to be the worst defender of your point of view i have ever seen. i have never known anyone to disregard the very thing that they wish to proclaim...you are a walking oxymoron....you contradict yourself more than obama wants bills passed without reading them. your logic is just not reality
jon083166 3 months ago
@jon083166
Actually, I am not denying any part of the bible at all.
I am proving to YOU that you are a hypocrit to not see that YOU will be denying parts of the bible to prove you are correct about some things.
Cannot have it both ways.
It is clear that Gen 1 and 2 CONTRADICT the other.
Either YOU believe in the Gen 1 story OR the Gen 2 - it is IMPOSSIBLE to believe in both.
But, my point is that ALL people have to pick and choose. That is how the bible is written. .
anotheronem 3 months ago
@
i see the bible as a whole. it does not contradict itself. it is gods word. look if you say you believe there is a god and yet you think he is so wimpy that he can not give us a perfect word without mans pollutions then that god is a false god. that god is weak and must be corrected by you. that god has no way of telling us the truth. sorry my god gave us a perfect truth and in context it never contradicts itself. my god can beat your god
jon083166 3 months ago
@anotheronem
you say you do not deny any part of the bible then say you want to throw out gen. because you dont like it, you throw out titus, you throw away timothy...paul did not write this or that....you are the most ridiculous debater i have ever seen. do you read what you write before you send it. god is the author of scripture, you deny god and the very scriptures you want to preach and it is clear to all, that you are a power hungry person that does not care what god says
jon083166 2 months ago
@jon083166
1. Do you condone Lot willingness to throw his daughters in the street to be gang raped?
2. Do you condone Moses commanding the death of women and children and kidnapping and raping of virgin women?
3. Do you condone eating pork and shellfish?
4. Did YOU bother to read the CONTRADICTION between Gen 1 and 2. One has to CHOOSE either or, for - they contradict each other. So it is not me rejecting the bible, but choosing to READ the bible carefully.
JESUS NEVER denied women.
anotheronem 2 months ago
For if one REALLY reads the bible properly - they realize it is ancient MEN raping, pillaging and being really IGNORANT regarding women and children for many of the Old testament books.
If one really reads the bible, they KNOW full well that MEN wrote the bible, for ancient men, about ancient men, from an ancient male perspective.
WE are to believe in JESUS first and foremost - the God man who existed before the BIBLE was written.
We can DISCERN and that is fine by JESUS.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@jon083166 I am not "denying the bible". I am READING the bible for what it says.
So, when YOU people tell me that YOU follow EVERY single letter of the LAW or words in the bible, then you will not be hypocrits.
Until then ALL MUST discern the bible for what is possible and what is ancient customs or ancient thought versus what JESUS wants of us.
No WHERE does Jesus say women are less than men or to be LORDED over by men. No where.
God Bless.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@jon083166
I am a person who wants good will toward all. Power hungry people could care less.
Just because I study and read what the bible and history does say, does NOT make me power hungry.
But it does make me very aware that JESUS did not deny women.
And that "many" MEN of authority in the church. (ALL churches) abused their authority now and then,
As a result MEN had their turn at sole leadership. WOMEN are required to BALANCE men in power. PERIOD!
anotheronem 2 months ago
@anotheronem wat the hell? where is that in scripture. women naturally have the wanting in their hearts to play the man role, that was told in Genesis wen God told Eve wat was to come for her sin. no man made this stuff up, God set up this order. how can a woman be over a man wen man was made the head of woman.
zoj33 2 months ago
@zoj33
Gen 2 is is SEVERE contradiction with Gen 1. Go back and read my posts because I keep repeating myself.
When YOU and others prove that MEN birth babies, come back and expound on Adam and Eve ribs story. Until then we see the glaring HOLES in reverse order of creation to suit some random male agenda in Gen 2.
One either believes Gen 1 is correct or Gen 2. It is impossible to believe both are correct. Otherwise one has to admit one of those books is wrong.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@anotheronem
wow you will just throw in your opinion and call god a jerk wont you. so please tell me what bible do you preach from since you rip almost every page out of yours. i see many here trying to show you and you just refuse because you say so. look lot cast his daughter out not god, no one asked him to he did it. why did he do it because he did not want the wrath of god opon him and his house. look gen 1 is god working in creation and gen 2 goes back and covers details as
jon083166 2 months ago
@jon083166
Men who rape, kill or hold women as servants ARE 1000% more than mere chauvenists - they are the WORST murderers and humans on earth.
So, sorry, to tell you that raping and killing actions are NOT the actions of chauvenists. But actions of murderers and vile men who did it.
So don't wishy wash mamby those atrocities in the Old Testament as chauvenist.
Chauvenists is a mild person, compared to some of those men.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@anotheronemgen 2 was moses going back to detail gods reason for creating everything. it was for us that we could tend it. moses shows how man just like the animals needed someone else as a helper and god gave it to him. i could point out many verses where god authorized women as slaves wives bought and little choice was given to women. are you ripping those pages out as well. in the end you have no bible to stand upon because you throw it all out and call it chauvinistic...
jon083166 2 months ago
@jon083166
What do YOU call raping virgins, kidnapping virgins or children and women. What do YOU call killing innocent women and children? YES, you are darn right that those are pages I would LOVE to rip out of the bible. BUT< does that CHANGE that those things happened?
Do we do those things TODAY - well some people do. But we NO longer allow MEN to sanction such things by saying God told me to do it.
anotheronem 2 months ago
You cannot explain away the MASSIVE contradiction from Gen 1 to what exists in Gen 2. Gen 1 animals, vegetation are created PRIOR to humans.
Gen 1 God creates humans in OUR image AT the EXACT same time. . And says that THEY will rule over the animals etc. Gen 2 getting to name newly created animals for him is way out of line.
anotheronem 2 months ago
The big clincher - We all know where BABIES come from and that is a WOMB. Woman, and NOT from a man. Adams rib story came centuries after Gen 1 was relayed. Remember these are stories that were passed DOWN only by word of mouth for centuries.
Adam and Eve story has a huge agenda to control the peoples of that time frame who were honouring fertility goddesses.
How else would GOD become jealous? of whom or what? God is GOD and can do and control everything. It is MEN who are jealous.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@anotheronem you deny christ, the apostles, the bible and all things sacred so that you can just show who is in charge. i answered your questions will you go back and answer mine....
jon083166 2 months ago
1. I NEVER, EVER - not once denied Christ. NOT once. Show me where I said any such thing - you will not find it! .
2. I never once denied the apostles. NOT once.
3. I never once denied sacred things, not once.
4. HOWEVER,
I, you, others throughout the ages have EVERY right to examine, scrutinize, study history and scripture.
Studying scripture, discovering more information that aids in understanding scripture is my and your right. Ergo your accusations are unfounded and rude.
anotheronem 2 months ago
@anotheronem Intellect and logic will definitely help you to navigate through those so called history books,but with the bible it is different, From your posts it`s clear that you see the bible as just an ordinary book. IT`S NOT and the reason why CERTAIN things appear to be contradictory or foolishness, is simply because you don`t have the Spirit of God. Check out 1st Cor. 2 ;9 - 16
Ekereku 1 week ago
@Ekereku
1. I never ONCE said the bible was an ordinary book.
2. I know VERY well the source and history and reverence held regarding the bible.
3. The bible, however, is still a book with words from ancient men, who wrote LONG after JESUS died. Heresay.
4. The TORAH was written earlier (1350 years maybe) before Jesus. Not all of it, but piecemeal, and even then those word written down were 1000's of years AFTER those facts re: 6000 BC. aprox.
anotheronem 4 days ago
5. l never said the bible was foolishness.
6. The bible is a marvel of literature and a peek into the minds of ancient bronze age men. But amazingly well written considering how long ago that was and that many MEN or women do not have good language or written skills even today.
7. Jesus never used a bible.
8. The bible does contradict itself in many places. DUE to the FACT that it was written by many authors over centuries (1000's) of years.
anotheronem 4 days ago
9. The bible first section is the ancient Jewish peoples journey and wanderings to discover God or distinguish God from nature. Ancient men, who were IGNORANT in spite of their written words for the most part.
10. Jesus came along and DISPELLED and did AWAY with ancient ignorance. Jesus said to stop killing, to NOT divorce (men were POLYGAMOUS)
Jesus said to love one another and treat one another as one would treat oneself.
anotheronem 4 days ago
@Ekereku I know VERY well what JESUS said and it is beautiful and we should FOLLOW JESUS. The Holy Spirit cannot be captured in a book (bible) but is outside the bible and comes to one when one turns their LIFE to Christ.
The problem is when men make the bible MORE important than JESUS.
Jesus defied the PHARISEES. Jesus picked wheat on the SABBATH, he ate with sinners. SOULS and relationship with GOD more than they worried about their fleshly desires or material things.
anotheronem 4 days ago
@Ekereku
Tell me, did JESUS write first Corinthians? or did Paul?
Are you a Paulist? or a Christian.
It can be worthy to read the whole bible and know the journey of the Jewish people to the light of Christ.
It can be worthy to read about his followers.
But Paul is NOT Jesus.
Paul also wrote Romans and Acts, whereby, women were with the men to first receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit at pentecost.
Paul also wrote of those early church leaders, men and women.
anotheronem 4 days ago
@anotheronem Do you believe in the bible? The reason why I say that is because if you want to make a distinction about who wrote what, the reason we know about Jesus is because one of his followers wrote about him. All scripture is God breathed.
BYRD1014 4 days ago
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@anotheronem Do you believe in the bible? The reason why I say that is because if you want to make a distinction about who wrote what, the reason we know about Jesus is because one of his followers wrote about him. All scripture is God breathed.
BYRD1014 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@anotheronem Do you believe in the bible? The reason why I say that is because if you want to make a distinction about who wrote what, the reason we know about Jesus is because one of his followers wrote about him. All scripture is God breathed.
BYRD1014 4 days ago
@Ekereku
You have some nerve or audacity to declare that I don't have the Holy Spirit.
Just because I don't follow the bible the way YOU or others interpret it, does not make me less a Christian. In fact it makes me an intelligent christian who does not follow MEN blindly.
There is nothing wrong with my comments or understanding of written words in the bible.
There is nothing wrong with my journey with CHRIST.
anotheronem 4 days ago
There is something wrong when people use subliminal or overt intimidation to say their way is the only way. Whereas, it is not. For there are over 30,000 different CHRISTIAN churches that all have almost the same bibles, but they interpret things a lot or a little different. Otherwise there would be ONE church and ONE Christian family on EARTH.
I also do NOT say I have the last word or am the authority. I view the bible as it is written.
I embrace CHRIST as CHRIST allows me to know HIM.
anotheronem 4 days ago
Certain things ARE contradictory in the bible - blatant.
We do NOT kill people for eating shellfish or pork today. We do not stone people. Jesus does NOT give man made rules to be with HIM. He gives us freedom to TURN from sin and embrace HIM as our Saviour. Jesus does NOT mention restrictions for women. Jesus FREES all of us. Paul frees people in Gal 3:28.
Rm 16 has women as church leaders. Acts has men and women receiving the first WAVE of the HOLY SPIRIT at the pentecost.
anotheronem 4 days ago
Check out the book of JOHN. 1 John 1
Romans 16. Acts.
Seems to me those passages CONTRADICT keeping one segment of the human population in SUBSERVIENCE.
Paul also Advocates ALL to be celibate like him. Are you celibate? Paul thought the end times were in his life time.
Paul said a lot of things, do YOU follow all of them to the T?
Is Paul holding the same authority as JESUS?
Paul discusses states of life and cultural customs. But he can NEVER issue a COMMANDMENT.
anotheronem 4 days ago
You chose what you want to see in the bible. You picked Gen 2 over and above the REAL order of Creation in Gen 1.
You pick and choose to believe an anonymous author in 1 Tim, 2 Tim, Ephesians etc in order to justify lording over women.
You pick and choose to EAT pork or shellfish or not. If one eats those items, they are to be put to death according to the OT.
And so the list goes on.
anotheronem 3 months ago
OUR image ---- is referring to male and female aspects of GOD. That is what intelligent people know.
GOD did NOT say I will create male and then have MALE create female. Because then that would make man a god.
God did NOT say any such thing.
Scriptures are written by ancient men, for men, about men, from a male perspective.
Cultural norms and fables and truths are all mixed in.
Discernment is the key and only with Christ can one discern properly!
anotheronem 3 months ago
@anotheronem
Gen 3:16 To the woman he said, "I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."
...tell me is this verse in your bible or did you rip that one out too.
jon083166 3 months ago
@jon083166
Again - only Gen 1 is the story of creation.
Gen 2-3 and 4-5 have serious issues about FACTS of life.
In addition:
Gen 2 and up are written CENTURIES later - and were NOT EVER written down at all.
These were ORAL stories passed down for 1000's of years.
Gen 2 and up seem to have real problems with dealing with facts of life.
ie WOMEN birth babies not men.
The agenda was to SQUASH female power of thatt time in history.
anotheronem 3 months ago
@anotheronem
just for giggles do you also throw away titus
Tit 1:5 This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you--
Tit 1:6 if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination.
i have tons of new testament that will put the husband as the head of the church are those all false too?
jon083166 3 months ago
@jon083166
Titus is written - but is not authored by Paul. anonymous author in that one too.
As far as your (and others) ----- the husband of ONE wife.
Now why does the NUMBER of wives appear in that statement. Must be the husband of ONE wife.
ONE wife? Why not say he must be married or single? Why add that phrase at all
Because an elder was NOT allowed to practice POLYGAMY as was the social construct of that time in history.
Has nothing to do with elders being only male.
anotheronem 3 months ago
@anotheronem This is the truth, it was because of Polygamy, that Paul said, husband of one wife. Because this was the order from the beginning. When God made male and female. God took one rib, not 4 ribs out of man. And then Jesus said, it was because of the heardness of your hearts that Moses did what he did. And even though God had set things in order with A/E, the mens hearts were only evil continously. There was no Law until, Moses and Abraham.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 3 months ago
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@MsBREATHOFLIFE
Thanks for you well thought out response. Although I do not believe in the Adams rib story. I do believe that Jesus was talking about not having more than one wife, in addition Paul took that topic up too and reiterated that men were to only have one wife.
Adams rib on the other hand? Well we all know that women birth babies.
Gen 1 and 2 contradict each other enormously. But that is not for this topic.
God Bless.
anotheronem 3 months ago
@anotheronem
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
Eph 5:24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
is that equal....what are wives suppose to do here??? there is no escape clause here. either obey god and repent, or create your own bible.
jon083166 3 months ago
@jon083166
1. Paul did NOT write Ephesians by the way.
2. Do you eat pork or shellfish?
3. Romans 16. Phoebe is a deacon, Junia is an apostle and the list goes on.
4. That means that there are contradictions in the bible about many things.
So we USE our GOD given common sense to say that MEN and WOMEN are equal humans and NO one LORDS over the other.
In FACT Jesus washed the disciples feet, so even JESUS said by that gesture that NO one LORDS over another.
anotheronem 3 months ago
Having authority to instruct or lead others is laid out in 1 John 4.
And NO where does JESUS or the book of Matthew, Mark, Luke or John say that MEN LORD over women.
NO WHERE.
Interesting how many men want to find passages that will suit their agenda.
Thank GOD we can read the whole bible and know that the bible is oral tradition, ancient men discussing ancient concepts and CUSTOMS.
JESUS did NEVER say to abide by CUSTOMS, but only abide by CHRIST.
God Bless.
anotheronem 3 months ago
@anotheronem
ok...i shake the dust off. galatians speaks of those that come with another gospel. first you disregard 1st and 2nd tim. now eph.. you have thrown out the whole bible and claim to have ultimate authority. you know more than 2000 years of orthodox christianity and every theologian and scholar up till the 18th century. you ignore facts and reality. history means nothing but the worst is gods word means nothing to you. repent....
jon083166 3 months ago
@jon083166
1 and 2 Tim are not written by Paul either.
anotheronem 3 months ago
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.” 29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. ...
anotheronem 3 months ago
.....They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so."
anotheronem 3 months ago
So let us examine the order of creation according to Gen 1. God created EVERYTHING before humans, even the animals and plants.
GOD addressed the humans as THEM and did not isolate out male only. But included female at same time.
The text does NOT isolate out a man in a barren lonely land,does NOT have a man naming animals. NOR have man forming a woman AFTER the fact out of his rib.
None of that in Gen 1 and in FACT male and female were created simultaneously in OUR image.
anotheronem 3 months ago
@anotheronem
well seeing you have already reverted to profanity, and made a point that has nothing to do with the order of the way god wants things i am sure you have made my point for me. paul said it was man formed first, the women to be his helper. it was eve that was deceived and she decieved adam. the curse was then that the man shall rule over the women. not my words but gods. it was god that said you had to be a husband of one wife in order to be an elder.
jon083166 3 months ago
Jesus did NOT restrict women either. Mary Magdalene is the FIRST preacher btw.
There were 12 male apostles that he breathed on - but JESUS never restricted anyone from delivering the gospel if they had the Holy Spirit.
If so, HE would have said so. But he sent out the 72 (who many biblical scholars say that these were couples of male and female. The pentecost - men and women. Rm 16 WOMEN are church leaders, which we would classify as priests today.
anotheronem 3 months ago