How many times do you beat your wife like your cult book tells you to? Where did you park the buraq , the flying mythological animal of mu-ham-mad? brainwashed idiots that believe in mythology and a pedophile.
western values my ass in your mother mouth. america is pimpmobile, the largest porn industry .
i wonder when will christians produce the well known stories of mary didlimg with her supersons penis to lick it.
4 horses of monkee faces of the book of shamvelation where bugs and cockroaches will devour the white swine who number millions in their offspring of bastards
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hey just wondering, where is the hadith about using the toothbrush u talked about in the beginning of the video? i noe its there, but i cant find it anymore...do u have the citations? thanks :)
There was also Juwairiya, another woman who belonged to the tribe of Bani Mustaliq, also attacked.
Another thing to note is that you said 4:34 says to beat lightly, yet only Yusuf Ali translates it this way. The Arabic itself does not say "lightly":
Also islam781, I advise u to read sira written bsy muslims and consult with muslim scholars, and not some orientalist junk, what I forgot people of Juwayriya embraced Islam;
as for wife beating there is hadith: Fear Allah regarding women, for they are your assistants. You have the right on them that they do not allow any person whom you dislike to step on your mat. However, IF they do that, you are allowed to DISCIPLINE them LIGHTLY. They have a right on you that you provide them with their provision and clothes, in a reasonable manner" and there r many hadith and cases on this subject, ex.the prophet didnt beat any of his wifes...
Well, Muhammad did not marry Aisha for political purposes. It seems odd that he would, seeing as how he already has good ties with Abu Bakr, her father. There is also Safiyah, wife of Kinana, who was the leader of the Jews of Khaybar, which was attacked, and Kinnana was killed. Who has Muhammad trying to make an allegiance with? There is also Rayhanah, 15 year old girl from the tribe of Banu Quraiza, which was also attacked and all of its men killed. What allegiance there?
These tribes bani quraydha and the jews of haybar betrayed the prophet allied themselfes with the pagans, these women by the way embraced Islam, From some of them we even have hadith tansmitted, like Juwayriya from bani Mustaliq, youre r lying when u say her people was attacked after the marriage, these were in war against the muslims prior, fought the muslims and the muslims captured them, when Muhammed a.s. married Juwayriya they we ALL set free, set your dacts straight
furthermore, with hadith it is sometimes difficult. the entire context of the hadith may not be availible, and perhaps any special circumstances may not be mentioned
I never quoted kathir's tafsir, All i said was that Kathir disagreed with your opinion. I quoted jalalyn.
anyway, here is the quote from ibn kathir that you refered to: "There is a third type of divorce, which is NEITHER a Sunnah NOR AN INNOVATION where one divorces a young wife who has not begun to have menses." Innovation (bid'ah) is considered a sin in islam. With this in mind, Kathir is basically saying that divorcing prepubecent girls is neither supported by Sunnah nor condemned by it...
....Ibn Kathir has a neutral opinion. He likely never encountered the hadith I quoted above!
Later on, however, ibn-kathir writes: (divorce is) "The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause."
it is clear from the above quote that he interprets 65:4 the same way that jalalyn does. His only issue is whether it supported by sunnah or not! I have shown from bukhari hadith that it IS supported by the sunnah.
Ok fair enough i have looked into that matter and it appears you are correct HOWEVER all commentary i have read on sura 65 does not mention child brides.
bid'ah can be further defined into categories. taraweeh prayer is a bid'a, but is practiced in every mosque. it is important to keep in mind that perhaps these scholars did not have complete information, and their opinions are by no means binding, as al-tabari states in the beginning of his tafsir.
ozzycda, you say in this video that sura 65:4 does not refer to child marriage. Respected Islamic Scholars such as ibn kathir and al-jalalyn both disagree with you on this issue. al-jalalyn, in his tafsir, states that the waiting period for divorcing a child-wife is as follows: "[also for] those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age, their period shall [also] be three months"
It it is clear from this quote that muslims can have PRE-PUBESCENT wives....disgusting!
Additionally, In Sahih Muslim Book 4, Number 2127 - It is reported that muhammad hit Aisha: Aisha says, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain." in the comments below you wrote that "the best of muslims don't beat their wives." If this is the case, than logic dictates that Muhammad cannot be one of the "best of the muslims" since he hit his child-wife.
IF you had read the phrase before this sentence regarding Ibn Kathir, it states that this form of divorce(regarding pre-pubescent) is not SUNNAH, meaning that Prophet Muhammad never spoke on this topic. Therefore it is an opinion, please read the Tafsir in context. Thank you.
What the heck are you talking about that it not part of sunnah? YES IT IS! here is the proof: Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 63:
The Prophet; said, "No. Do you know some
of the Quran (by heart)?" He said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "Go, I have agreed to marry her to you with what you know of the Qur'an (as her Mahr)." 'And for those who have no courses (i.e. they are still immature). (65.4) And the 'Iddat for the girl before puberty is three months (in the above Verse).
You quoted Ibn Kathir's Tafsir out of context and I showed you the context. Ibn Kathir says with regards to the divorce of young wives, that is not Sunnah, with regards to the menses. GO re-read it. I'll check up that Hadtih and see what the context....peace
actually the third stage is that, when this verse was revealed, muhammad(pbuh) told everyone that what the word beat actually means, he took a miwak(stick used to brush teeth, it is softer than a toothbrush you can easily break it, its like pencil) he tapped that on himself and said the word beat means tapping (no more than that) even this has rules, you cant tap on her face, you shouldnt tap in such way, that will leave the mark, and you cant tap infront of children
Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.(Numbers 31:17-18)"
You are right, Daniel did not get married, he was a eunuch. Other than that, most of our prophets were polygamists!
Hoshea married a prostitute... Solomon had 700 wives, David commited adultery and murdered Batsheva's husband... Judah visited at least one (recorded) prostitute, Tamar was raped by her brother... the list goes on and on!
Sure they did. Remember, wherever the quran doesn't directly 'correct' the Bible, the Biblical verse has the weight of authority. Since The quran nowhere rejects the rape of Tamar by her brother, the rape is true.
Also, why does it shock you that the Biblical Prophets behaved so badly from time to time? Your own 'prophet' took the wife of Zayed in order the satisfty his sexual lusts[Q 33:37]
Many scholars do not advocate beating of women since the Hadith advocate the best among men are those who do not beat their wives. Plus, why is it the women the USA get beat up a lot more, domestic violence is higher in the USA then anywhere else, explain to me where that motivation comes from for american men to beat their wives?
I don't know if you are correct ozzycda that the USA average is higher when it comes to violence against woman then other countries.
I do know that in my own country people with a Muslim background are 3 times as often involed in violent crimes against there female spouses then non-Muslims.
When the meccan prophet handed over the toothbrush as an example of what to use to beat your wife, he was explaining the thickness of the object to be used, not describing a light slap with a small toothbrush.
Show your proof of this. This is not the understanding of the Islamic position. Plus look at all the Hadith I showed that Spencer did not talk about or even actknowledge can be found among the Hadiths
What Islamic position? The historical one which is praticed in the islamic world, or the one you are trying to spoon-feed to the West?
My understanding of the meccan's words come directly from the islamic practice of beating women with a stick 'no thinker than a man's thumb', which is about as thick as a toothbrush. The islamic position can be found in nations that put to practice the words of the meccan.
The exact word for 'beating' of women in Arabic is 'idreb' and it is the same word commonly used to describe the punishment for hostile horses and felons. It appears 12 times in the Quran.
Tell me how it means to 'tap lightly'. Use an Arabic lexicon, and lets talk about the root which describes things like 'beating eggs' and 'beating a carpet' [The Concise Oxford English-Arabic Dictionary; The Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic].
One of the obstacles is that Quaraysh Arabic hasn't been spoken in centuries, and words from dead languages, even with similar origins and shared alphabets, often take on wildly different meanings. For example there is great division of the word 'NUSHUZ' which according to some means 'disobedience' while to others it means 'rebellion' and to some, 'desertion'. In English, a far more advanced language, there are enormous differences in these words. So, islamic practice becomes a real truthteller.
24:30 Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and GUARD their modesty. (there is also a requirement for the men clothing)
24:31 Says the same thing as to GUARD their modesty but it explains what to guard "that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands"
24:30. "Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do."
31. "And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof;" [continued below]
24:31. [continued] "that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex;" [continued below]
24:31 [continued] "and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss."
A thousands words... Men hav little to guard but when it came to women, it explains little about the men and why they hav to guard their modesty, but then it tells women what to cover and who to cover from. It is a long verse but talks bout few points.
except to their husbands,...small children who have no sense of the shame of sex;" -Talks bout one point in detials
My friend to understand Isalm fully you must also read the Hadith were clothing is discussed in great detail for MEN AND WOMEN. thank you once again for your comments.
The words "first", "next", "last", and "lightly" do not appear in the original Arabic. All punishments are to be done in conjunction, and there is no "lightly" requirement.
After seeing his adopted son's wife in partial dress, he requested that his son divorce her, Mohammad subsequently married her and made his adopted son go back to using his name before the adoption. See was, by many accounts very beautiful.
He "married" the wife of a widowed "chieftain". Mohammad promised her as "spoils" to one of his men until he saw her & took her for himself. He pitched his tent and "consummated" his "marriage" right then and there. May not have been lust, but he had to have her right away. No one knows how she felt about it. Of course that wouldn't matter, she was the wife of an Infidel.
Abdkrm7: I believe the issue is that Muhammad had sex with her when he was 55 and she was nine. She was also stuck by Muhammad in the chest & many Muslim men point to this (as well as other incidents to justify hitting their wives. Yes she was also involved in the war for succession of power in Islam instigating war against Ali in the 1st Fitna.
Hero or villian depending on who's story you are reading.
No prove that Muhammad had sex with her at 9, he did live wit her at nine. As for the hadith bout her being hit in the chest I will hav to look that up.
And plz do u kno details about the war? She was involved but doesnt mean she was against Ali.
After the death of Uthman, many including Aisha wanted to avenge the death of Uthman. Ali and others refuse to avenge the death which will lead to civil war. He then had peace talks with Aisha and but side agree not to fight. But those among Ali's Army under the leadership of Abdullah bin Saba attacked Aisha which lead to a battle. But later on Ali stopped the battle and told Aisha about the confusion.
Aaishah said: "Allaah's Messenger never hit anything with his hand ever, except when fighting in the path of Allah. Nor did he ever hit a servant or a woman." [Recorded by Ibn Maajah.
There is a mistranslation of the hadith.
The word used is (dafa'a)"to push"
The hadith should read "He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore"
abdkrm7: Zaynab bint Khuzayma although a widow, was also a child when married to Muhammad. There are no accurate accounts of all the slaves he took as concubines and how many were children.
Re the battle, you need to read about it if you think Aisha was not against Ali. How it was resolved is irrelevant to that issue. The accounts are that she spent the rest of her life under "house arrest" after her side lost.
abdkrm7: I missed your discussion about Muhammad's act of hitting Aisha in the chest. She said he hit her in the chest causing her pain. What ever the reason, it happened and some Muslims use that (along with other Qur'anic verses) as justification for beating their wives. In many of the 57 Islamic states, there are no legal protections for women who are beaten by husbands, brothers, fathers etc. Honor killings are often not prosecuted.
i recommend you read the whole hadith for yourself.
It is said that he would place his hand on his companions as a sign of appreciation just like patting someone on the back.
(Bukhari and Muslim) I mentioned it to the Messenger of Allah who then struck his hand on my chest so hard that I could see the trace of his fingers on it, saying: 'O Allah! Grant him steadfastness and make him a guide of righteousness and a rightly-guided one!'
abdkrm7: I think the west would be more accepting of Islam and Muslims, if, they would quit trying to deny women's second class status and Islam's call for subjugation of Kafir & just admit the truth and work toward reforming those aspects of Ialam. So many things are so crystal clear yet I see, especially Western Muslims trying to cover up those issues that are embarrising in the 21st century.
abdkrm7; Wow, where does one start. (2:282) Two women count as one man as witness in court.(4:11) & 4:176) Women share of inheritance less than a man's. Divorce (talaq). (4:34) Women are subject to a man's will. (2:228) Women are below men. Sura (2:223) Wives are property. (4:3) Polygamy. (4:129) mens needs come 1st. (4:24)(5:87) Nikah Mut'ah or temporary marriage. Bukhari (52:250) Women cannot travel alone.
inheritance: the women does not hav to support the husband or the family with her money, so of course she will get less than the husband who MUST provide for the family.
4:34- A man is naturally stronger than he women giving him the ability to protect and provide for the family. Who will protect the wife other than the husband?
2:228 a mistranslation again. If u read the context it is talking bout rights between men and women. It then says "men have a degree(of responsibility) over them.
abdkrm7: Your arguments make my point, there is no equality between the sexes. What part don't you get? If she does not have to support her husband, that is unequal, the reason for the inequality is not the issue, the issue is equality. The deductions I made from the quoted verses were not mine, but conclusions by Islamic scholars.
Sorry, bout I dont recount any one other than Aisha that he took when he was a child. Also plz read bout slaves in Islam.
The Battle: On her way from Hajj, Aisha learns bout Uthmaan's death. She wanted to avenge his death. Ali refused to cause civil war since n one knew for sure who carried out the plan. Ali and many other companions refused to fight but Ali had no option so he went to talk to Aisha, they agreed on terms but during the night a group attacked Aisha's and battle broke out.
abdkrm7:Hafsa bint Umar & Zaynab bint Khuzayma both were said to be about the same age as Aisha when they married Mohammad. Althouht their exact age is unknown, they were married to him about three years after his marriage to Aisha. which would put them some where between 11 and 14.
abdkrm7: you say "Hafsa bint Umar and Zaynab were not the same age as Aisha." Their were two wives named Zaynab, (Zaynab bint Khuzayma the younger one and Zaynab bint Jahsh the daughter in law.) the younger one only lived eight months after her marriage to the Prophet. Both Hafsa and Zaynab bint Khuzayma are described as being "about the same age as Aisha" they were married to the Prophet about three years after Aisha's marriage. Do the math. 11 to 14 at the time of marriage.
Only credible reference to her age at the time of the marriage was "close to the age of Aisha" died eight months after marriage, which was three years after the marriage of Aisha.
2) Zaynab bint Jahsh Muhammad's cousin and daughter-in-law age 35 when married to the Prophet.
this Zainab died 8months after the marriage. She was also well known in the Pre-Islamic era.
For her to be well known as "Mother of the destitute" you must have been quite old at the time, definitely not little girl. She was also previously married. She MUST have been bout 27+. 13+4 = 17 which would be considered that she was born at the advent of Islam. But since she was well known she must have been born prior to Islam
abskrm7: Please direct me to references which suggest that Zaynab bint Khuzayma was well known in Pre-Islamic era. With girls marrying at 9 and 10, a previous marriage does not give any evidence suggesting her age. Again the only account I have ever seen regarding her age was that she was near the age of Aisha. Three years after Aisha's marriage. 9+3 = 12 add a couple years for boot 14.
abdkrm7:Battle of Bassorah (Battle of the Camel, or Battle of Jamal) took place at Basra, Iraq in 656 between forces allied to Ali (Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law) and forces allied to Aisha.
As for Zainab bint Jahsh: Zainab came from a known lineage of high status unlike that of Zaid. When Muhammad recommend Zaid to Zainab she got mad and something similar to "How could I marry someone who has no lineage and was a slave?" Then Muhammad said similar to "Lineage status is part of the Pre-islamic era and that everyone is equal regardless of lineage" So Zainab married Zaid since she did not want to go against Muhammad, but problems arose between the two. So later Muhammad married Zainab
abdkrm7: the issue here is that Muhammad married his adopted son's wife. (His daughter in law). He "conveniently" had a revelation wherein Allah revealed to him that it was okay to do what had been a serious taboo. He apparently saw her nearly nude and wanted her for her beauty (lust). Most of us who look at these issues have no problem with the wives, but with the hypocrisy and pedophilia of Muhammad and how his actions have adversely affected women in Islam.
Where is that prove that he saw her nearly naked or are u just repeating wut u heard?
The hypocrisy and pedophilla of Muhammad?
What hypocrisy?
Pedophilia? I already stated the issue about Aisha, the only one of his wives that was below 18 and the one of the 2 only virgins he married.
U see him marrying Zainab to be wrong bcuz of the Pre-Islamic customs but u dont see Zainab marrying Zaid to be wrong even tho it is not acceptable accoding to customs
abdkrm7:pedophilia is when an adult has sexual contact with a child.
Al-Tabari:nearly naked: Al-Tabari: ""Zaynab had dressed in haste when she was told "the Messenger of God is at the door." She jumped up in haste and excited the admiration of the Messenger of God, so that he turned away murmuring something that could scarcely be understood. However, he did say overtly: "Glory be to God the Almighty! Glory be to God, who causes the hearts to turn!""
abdkrm7: "pe·do·phil·ia: sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object"
It is much like being a cock sucker, you only have to do it once. It is clear from the Hadeth, from the mouth of Aisha herself, that she was his favorite wife. She was 18 when he died, do the math. Muhammad fucked children, sorry, it's true.
Like I said in my earlier comments. He married Aisha cuz he saw the potential of her being a great scholar of Islam. Also what do you think Aisha would say if she was alive today?
Bukhari:Book 7:Volume 62:Hadith 156
Narrated 'Aisha:
I never felt so jealous of any wife of Allah's Apostle as I did of Khadija
Children? Aisha was the only one he married at such a young age and there was a reason for it
Abdkrum: How can one tell if someone is going to be a great scholar of Islam when at the time they were betrothed, she was 6 yrs old? and the religion was so new that an argument that contimplating scholorship experise is hot air and one would have to really bend logic or common sence to buy into that BS.
Well, She was born after her parents became muslim so she was free from the evil of the Pagans. She was known for her formidable memory, she did not hesitate to ask questions. And Aisha said that Muhammad told her he saw her in a dream meaning it was a decree from God. But I doubt u believe that.
So since she was his best friend daughter, he choose her to train for the purpose of Islam
Abdkrum: I meant to ask you earlier, do you know any 6 year olds? 9 year olds? even 16 yr olds? Can you imagine yourself under any circumstance having your 55 year old uncle having sex with any of those children? Any sexual act between a man that old and a young (even 16-17) is a totally selfish (sexual) act on the part of the adult.
abdkrm7: Regarding Aisha, again, I guess you cannot read, but look these up:
abdkrm7:Age 9: Sahih Bukhari Vol 5 bk 58 #234 & #236 Vol 7 book 62 #s 62,64,65,88
Sahih Muslim Book 8 #s 3309,3310,3311
Sunnan Abu Dawud Bk 41 #s 4915 & 4917
Unless you have a different understanding of the meaning of "consummated" within the context of marriage, it is clear the marriage was consummated at age 9.
I left out Tabara as you don't believe that is credible.
abdkrm, I was scanning these comments and saw where you had said, "he never had 11 at a time but he did have 11 total." Having just discussed this elsewhere, and with the info on my mind, I'm passing to you so you don't repeat your error.
Aloha, Several errors in your video Re #5. You chastise "hypocrites" citing polygamy in the Judao-Christian History. With respect to polygamy you must separate Judaism and Christianity, as polygamy has never been part of the Christian tradition, scripture or teaching.
It can never pe proved one way or the other regarding Mohammad marrying for lust, but there are several instances wherein the evidence is that he did. Two I recall from memory, not perfect but easy for you to research.below
After seeing his adopted son's wife in partial dress, he requested that his son divorce her, Mohammad subsequently her and made his adopted son go back to using his name before the adoption. Also, he married the wife of a widowed "chieftain". (She became a widow during one of Mohammad's peaceful "conversions" of Infidels) Mohammad promised her as "spoils" to one of his followers until he saw her and took her for himself.
the marriage to Aisha. Then you ask muslim people to provide you with evidence backing your claim. This seems to be the wrong methodology. I order to search for the truth
(if ever attainable) you should resort to
neutral historical investigation and not rely solely on accounts of muslim readers,for obvious reasons.
My mentioning of Muslims to back up my cliams, was not of ALL the claims but of the issue of the Shia muslims. Please watch carefully my friend. But I enjoy the fact that you have takes an interest on my videos. Yes I know that toothbrushes did not exsist, they are some stick, not sure of the arabic name....
Also, it is agreed upon most scholars that hitting the wife is the LAST resort, considering that the verse right after says that if nothing can be done, then a meeting of the family should occur to discuss the marriage or divorce. Also as I mentioned it is importent to relaize that Muhammad never beat any of his wives. So if Muslims where to acutally follow the Sunnah of the Prophet, they would not make wife a beating a commone practices. Peace
The name of the stick is Miswak and its literally a small twig! as it would have to be if was to be used as a tooth brush! you can usually get them from an Islamic center or a mosque shop.If ANYONE wants to confirm the size of one,& when u see the size of it you will know that if someone hits u with it (Miswak) it would probably tickle u more then anything! I suggest u go & see what one looks like people!! Its almost as dangerous as a ballistic missile(lol).peace.
No problems my friend, thanks for takeing an interest in the subject and my videos! Let us go on a enlightning search together! Peace!
One more thing, of course not ALL of Muhammad's where for political reasons only. He loved his wives, its no mistake that political alliances and other issues of that nature arose out of those bonds. Look at Ali and Aisha, PEACE!
Colin, now why are you trying to make an apologetic exegesis of the contentious quranic verses ? Are you a muslim theologian ?
I guess not, hence what is your real intention actually ? It seems to be an attempt of apology at all costs. Why? What are your motives ? Could it be the Sockholm-syndrome,or simply the reluctance to have to cope with things that simply are the way they are ?
No my friend, my goal is to expose Robert Spencer for doing a diservice to the Islamic text. I enjoy theology and cant stand it when people are praised for doing a diservice to scholarly work. I am not a theologian..yet I am a student. Please actually WATCH my videos and judge them on the actual CONTENT. Thank you for your support, and peace!
I am not trying to be "apologetic" I am just stateing the fact that I own almost ALL of the sources Robert Spencer uses in his book, and I found that he is not mentioning all verses and he his cherry picking his sources. Please watch my many examples on this topic, peace
@ozzycda. That`s what I am trying to do, judge the actual CONTENT and not degrade or malign you. Now to start with one of the issues:it is not a question to "beat the hell out of her", merely to beat her, is imo reprehensible. Moreover, take notice of the fact,that the verse(4;24) says: if you FEAR disloyalty ! In dubio pro rero!!! It implies that a husband could claim he fears etc. without the necessity of proving the commtment of a disloyal action.
Sure my friend, but most commentaries, such as Yusuf Ali, claim that that disloyalty must be attached to sinning in some fashion. And any Hadith on thhe subject, which I mention in Part 2 of Ch.5 shows that this is a rare occasions that beating of wives occures. Also, the Hadith that Muhammad told his friend when asked what to hit his wife with, he told him to hit her with a tooth brush
Also almost all translations saw spank, or hit ligthly, and tape, your wife. That is why I said in the video, NOT beat the hell out of her. Also in the Sublime Quran translation, the Arabic word that is usually translated as hit or beat, can also be translated as leave OR depart from her. Peace!
@ozzycda. Well, let us stick to beat. This is the translation in all editions and by virtually all translators, not only into english but into other languages as well. Thus it can not be wrong. Attempts to give a
hello ozzycda.Now to come back again, the verse says"if you fear that...etc." You didn`t mention this relevant aspect. The exegesis of Yusuf Ali might not take it take into account either, other tafsirs can have a different opinion. However, that`s not the point. The point is the allowance to punish wifes physically (even though lightly)by Muhammad and the fact, that Muhammad claimed it to be a divine permit.
about the actual practice of wife beating, they merely report of particular episodes. Thus, the practice of the quranic permission in the muslim community, can not be deduced
from particular hadiths as you claim.
By the way, to pick up a detail you mentioned ;in those days, toothbrushes as we know now, did not exist. I suppose they were
little sticks, at least that`s what I have seen in Ethiopia being used by poor people.
The exact word for 'beating' of women in Arabic is 'idreb' and it is the same word commonly used to describe the punishment for hostile horses and felons. It appears 12 times in the Quran.
Tell me how it means to 'tap lightly'. Use an Arabic lexicon, and lets talk about the root which describes things like 'beating eggs' and 'beating a carpet' [The Concise Oxford English-Arabic Dictionary; The Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic].
@lothairlorraine can you please stop commenting on islamic issues cuz u are not a scholar of islam u better learn about ur own bible u have prob with wife beating now wat about this one...If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.(Deuteronomy 25:11-12)..amazing stuffs right dont u have any problem with this one
The points that you maid about the Prophet Mohammad giving advice to certain individuals that they must marry and divorce inorder to get remarried again, could be that he wanted them to be very sure that they wanted this original divorce.
Because of the natural jealousy that is in humans, one would think twice or be really sure that he/she wants a divorce. Do to the condition set forth that your partner must marry again and get divorced inorder to remarry.
Good points. Also note that the word used for "BEAT" is "DHARB", which is in singular format. (not DHARABAT which would be plural, hence it s a hit, not a "BEATING")
Moses also "DHARB"ed the sea with his Cane. He didnt beat the living crap out of the sea, he hit it once.
lol, muslims are funny brainwashed morons.
I bet this comment will be deleted.
How many times do you beat your wife like your cult book tells you to? Where did you park the buraq , the flying mythological animal of mu-ham-mad? brainwashed idiots that believe in mythology and a pedophile.
westernvaluesdefense 2 years ago
western values my ass in your mother mouth. america is pimpmobile, the largest porn industry .
i wonder when will christians produce the well known stories of mary didlimg with her supersons penis to lick it.
4 horses of monkee faces of the book of shamvelation where bugs and cockroaches will devour the white swine who number millions in their offspring of bastards
yahwehdirtydog 2 years ago
brainwashed motherwhoring morons murdered 30 million natives , that is western values. go fuck your mother
yahwehdirtydog 2 years ago
what happened to the audio !!!!!!
hurbaga 3 years ago 3
There is a bug going around youtube that has infected some of my videos. Check the description section on this video to see further details. Thanks for your support!
ozzycda 3 years ago
is ur video bugged because of criticism on islam or is it merely coincidence?
dromycatcher 3 years ago
Not to mention most of his wives were old.
AAAhmed46 3 years ago
hey just wondering, where is the hadith about using the toothbrush u talked about in the beginning of the video? i noe its there, but i cant find it anymore...do u have the citations? thanks :)
Farhanizzle 3 years ago
Not sure in all honesty, I know Yusuf Estes mentions it, it is in a video here on youtube.
ozzycda 3 years ago
There was also Juwairiya, another woman who belonged to the tribe of Bani Mustaliq, also attacked.
Another thing to note is that you said 4:34 says to beat lightly, yet only Yusuf Ali translates it this way. The Arabic itself does not say "lightly":
قَانِتَاتٌ حَافِظَاتٌ لِلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللَّهُ وَاللَّاتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلَا تَبْغُوا عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلًا إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيرًا
Islam781 3 years ago
Also islam781, I advise u to read sira written bsy muslims and consult with muslim scholars, and not some orientalist junk, what I forgot people of Juwayriya embraced Islam;
penkalli 3 years ago
as for wife beating there is hadith: Fear Allah regarding women, for they are your assistants. You have the right on them that they do not allow any person whom you dislike to step on your mat. However, IF they do that, you are allowed to DISCIPLINE them LIGHTLY. They have a right on you that you provide them with their provision and clothes, in a reasonable manner" and there r many hadith and cases on this subject, ex.the prophet didnt beat any of his wifes...
penkalli 3 years ago
Well, Muhammad did not marry Aisha for political purposes. It seems odd that he would, seeing as how he already has good ties with Abu Bakr, her father. There is also Safiyah, wife of Kinana, who was the leader of the Jews of Khaybar, which was attacked, and Kinnana was killed. Who has Muhammad trying to make an allegiance with? There is also Rayhanah, 15 year old girl from the tribe of Banu Quraiza, which was also attacked and all of its men killed. What allegiance there?
Islam781 3 years ago
These tribes bani quraydha and the jews of haybar betrayed the prophet allied themselfes with the pagans, these women by the way embraced Islam, From some of them we even have hadith tansmitted, like Juwayriya from bani Mustaliq, youre r lying when u say her people was attacked after the marriage, these were in war against the muslims prior, fought the muslims and the muslims captured them, when Muhammed a.s. married Juwayriya they we ALL set free, set your dacts straight
penkalli 3 years ago
furthermore, with hadith it is sometimes difficult. the entire context of the hadith may not be availible, and perhaps any special circumstances may not be mentioned
hazzek89 3 years ago
I never quoted kathir's tafsir, All i said was that Kathir disagreed with your opinion. I quoted jalalyn.
anyway, here is the quote from ibn kathir that you refered to: "There is a third type of divorce, which is NEITHER a Sunnah NOR AN INNOVATION where one divorces a young wife who has not begun to have menses." Innovation (bid'ah) is considered a sin in islam. With this in mind, Kathir is basically saying that divorcing prepubecent girls is neither supported by Sunnah nor condemned by it...
Hammer7972 3 years ago
....Ibn Kathir has a neutral opinion. He likely never encountered the hadith I quoted above!
Later on, however, ibn-kathir writes: (divorce is) "The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause."
it is clear from the above quote that he interprets 65:4 the same way that jalalyn does. His only issue is whether it supported by sunnah or not! I have shown from bukhari hadith that it IS supported by the sunnah.
Hammer7972 3 years ago
Ok fair enough i have looked into that matter and it appears you are correct HOWEVER all commentary i have read on sura 65 does not mention child brides.
ozzycda 3 years ago
bid'ah can be further defined into categories. taraweeh prayer is a bid'a, but is practiced in every mosque. it is important to keep in mind that perhaps these scholars did not have complete information, and their opinions are by no means binding, as al-tabari states in the beginning of his tafsir.
hazzek89 3 years ago
ozzycda, you say in this video that sura 65:4 does not refer to child marriage. Respected Islamic Scholars such as ibn kathir and al-jalalyn both disagree with you on this issue. al-jalalyn, in his tafsir, states that the waiting period for divorcing a child-wife is as follows: "[also for] those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age, their period shall [also] be three months"
It it is clear from this quote that muslims can have PRE-PUBESCENT wives....disgusting!
Hammer7972 3 years ago
Additionally, In Sahih Muslim Book 4, Number 2127 - It is reported that muhammad hit Aisha: Aisha says, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain." in the comments below you wrote that "the best of muslims don't beat their wives." If this is the case, than logic dictates that Muhammad cannot be one of the "best of the muslims" since he hit his child-wife.
Hammer7972 3 years ago
You are taking the Tafsirs and the Hadiths out of context, thank you for playing.
ozzycda 3 years ago
IF you had read the phrase before this sentence regarding Ibn Kathir, it states that this form of divorce(regarding pre-pubescent) is not SUNNAH, meaning that Prophet Muhammad never spoke on this topic. Therefore it is an opinion, please read the Tafsir in context. Thank you.
ozzycda 3 years ago
What the heck are you talking about that it not part of sunnah? YES IT IS! here is the proof: Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 63:
The Prophet; said, "No. Do you know some
of the Quran (by heart)?" He said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "Go, I have agreed to marry her to you with what you know of the Qur'an (as her Mahr)." 'And for those who have no courses (i.e. they are still immature). (65.4) And the 'Iddat for the girl before puberty is three months (in the above Verse).
Hammer7972 3 years ago
You quoted Ibn Kathir's Tafsir out of context and I showed you the context. Ibn Kathir says with regards to the divorce of young wives, that is not Sunnah, with regards to the menses. GO re-read it. I'll check up that Hadtih and see what the context....peace
ozzycda 3 years ago
actually the third stage is that, when this verse was revealed, muhammad(pbuh) told everyone that what the word beat actually means, he took a miwak(stick used to brush teeth, it is softer than a toothbrush you can easily break it, its like pencil) he tapped that on himself and said the word beat means tapping (no more than that) even this has rules, you cant tap on her face, you shouldnt tap in such way, that will leave the mark, and you cant tap infront of children
Muslim Here!
antichristawakens 3 years ago
You will not find this in the Quran;
Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.(Numbers 31:17-18)"
Bible
mjay22 4 years ago
Nice video, bro!
You are right, Daniel did not get married, he was a eunuch. Other than that, most of our prophets were polygamists!
Hoshea married a prostitute... Solomon had 700 wives, David commited adultery and murdered Batsheva's husband... Judah visited at least one (recorded) prostitute, Tamar was raped by her brother... the list goes on and on!
:-P
TheRantingMidwife 4 years ago
None of the Prophets did such things...
farhan00 4 years ago
Thats where we disagree Farhan... the Torah and Quran differ on the sinfullness of the Prophets...
In the Quran did Moses kill the Egyptian? And was it purposefull?
TheRantingMidwife 4 years ago
Sure they did. Remember, wherever the quran doesn't directly 'correct' the Bible, the Biblical verse has the weight of authority. Since The quran nowhere rejects the rape of Tamar by her brother, the rape is true.
Also, why does it shock you that the Biblical Prophets behaved so badly from time to time? Your own 'prophet' took the wife of Zayed in order the satisfty his sexual lusts[Q 33:37]
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
So if a man beats his wife because she doesn't follow Islamic law he is wrong?
I think this is a very important point you are advocating, i think you should move to the Islamic world and teach the scholars.
That they cannot beat woman.
Batavian187 4 years ago
Many scholars do not advocate beating of women since the Hadith advocate the best among men are those who do not beat their wives. Plus, why is it the women the USA get beat up a lot more, domestic violence is higher in the USA then anywhere else, explain to me where that motivation comes from for american men to beat their wives?
ozzycda 4 years ago
I don't know if you are correct ozzycda that the USA average is higher when it comes to violence against woman then other countries.
I do know that in my own country people with a Muslim background are 3 times as often involed in violent crimes against there female spouses then non-Muslims.
We even have special safe houses for them.
Batavian187 4 years ago
By the way i think that any violence comes from the concept that the other the person who the violence is directed at is a lesser human being.
Batavian187 4 years ago
When the meccan prophet handed over the toothbrush as an example of what to use to beat your wife, he was explaining the thickness of the object to be used, not describing a light slap with a small toothbrush.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
Show your proof of this. This is not the understanding of the Islamic position. Plus look at all the Hadith I showed that Spencer did not talk about or even actknowledge can be found among the Hadiths
ozzycda 4 years ago
What Islamic position? The historical one which is praticed in the islamic world, or the one you are trying to spoon-feed to the West?
My understanding of the meccan's words come directly from the islamic practice of beating women with a stick 'no thinker than a man's thumb', which is about as thick as a toothbrush. The islamic position can be found in nations that put to practice the words of the meccan.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
But you are ignoring everything I said in my video regarding this concept of women and "beating", do you see what I'm getting at?
ozzycda 4 years ago
The exact word for 'beating' of women in Arabic is 'idreb' and it is the same word commonly used to describe the punishment for hostile horses and felons. It appears 12 times in the Quran.
Tell me how it means to 'tap lightly'. Use an Arabic lexicon, and lets talk about the root which describes things like 'beating eggs' and 'beating a carpet' [The Concise Oxford English-Arabic Dictionary; The Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic].
The real meaning of 'idreb' is obvious.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
One of the obstacles is that Quaraysh Arabic hasn't been spoken in centuries, and words from dead languages, even with similar origins and shared alphabets, often take on wildly different meanings. For example there is great division of the word 'NUSHUZ' which according to some means 'disobedience' while to others it means 'rebellion' and to some, 'desertion'. In English, a far more advanced language, there are enormous differences in these words. So, islamic practice becomes a real truthteller.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
But didnt he say " Do not beat your wives" and "The Best of you are those who do not be there wives" ?
abdkrm7 4 years ago
Yes he did, hence watch all of my video lol
ozzycda 4 years ago
All the while teaching that beating is an option.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
Read and listen to the other Hadiths my friend he said he best among you are one ones who DONT BEAT THEIR WIVES
ozzycda 4 years ago
All the while he still tells his disciples hat beating women is an option.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
And like I said earlier, what would Aisha say about the accusations if she was around today? Would she defend Muhammad or attack him?
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm7: Please read Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234 & Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915
Aisha herself says the marriage was consummated when she was nine.
If she would defend him or not is irrelevant. Are you now admitting he needs defending?
konagnu 4 years ago
Like I said the word consummated in english cannot be used to define arabic.
I meant would Aisha agree wit u or would she clear Muhammad of the accusations
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm, good question. The answer of course depends on whether she was in Saudi Arabic or the U.S. when she was asked about it.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
the answer to what?
abdkrm7 4 years ago
Im sorry, the answer to wether Aisha would exonnerate your prophet or not. It would depend on where she was when asked to comment.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
Robert Spencer is notorious for taking ayats from the Quran and using them out of context to lure an audience.
new1islam 4 years ago
24:30 does not come close to mentioning about men what 24:31 does about women.
The only thing that 24:30 says about men is, essentially, don't gawk. There is nothing specified for men regarding clothing etc.
gorgonzolaaa 4 years ago
24:30 Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and GUARD their modesty. (there is also a requirement for the men clothing)
24:31 Says the same thing as to GUARD their modesty but it explains what to guard "that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands"
A man also has to cover part of his body
abdkrm7 4 years ago
24:30. "Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do."
gorgonzolaaa 4 years ago
31. "And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof;" [continued below]
gorgonzolaaa 4 years ago
24:31. [continued] "that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex;" [continued below]
gorgonzolaaa 4 years ago
24:31 [continued] "and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss."
gorgonzolaaa 4 years ago
For men, one sentence; for women, one thousand words. You decide.
gorgonzolaaa 4 years ago
A thousands words... Men hav little to guard but when it came to women, it explains little about the men and why they hav to guard their modesty, but then it tells women what to cover and who to cover from. It is a long verse but talks bout few points.
except to their husbands,...small children who have no sense of the shame of sex;" -Talks bout one point in detials
abdkrm7 4 years ago
Quite the contrary; the men have the most to guard: their women.
gorgonzolaaa 4 years ago
My friend to understand Isalm fully you must also read the Hadith were clothing is discussed in great detail for MEN AND WOMEN. thank you once again for your comments.
ozzycda 4 years ago
The words "first", "next", "last", and "lightly" do not appear in the original Arabic. All punishments are to be done in conjunction, and there is no "lightly" requirement.
gorgonzolaaa 4 years ago
Ok thank you for the info...that still does not change the overall point of the video...peace be with you and thanks for watching.
ozzycda 4 years ago
You are quite welcome.
gorgonzolaaa 4 years ago
Thank you for understanding my religion. I really admire the way you analize. Thank you
IEDrock 4 years ago
After seeing his adopted son's wife in partial dress, he requested that his son divorce her, Mohammad subsequently married her and made his adopted son go back to using his name before the adoption. See was, by many accounts very beautiful.
konagnu 4 years ago
He "married" the wife of a widowed "chieftain". Mohammad promised her as "spoils" to one of his men until he saw her & took her for himself. He pitched his tent and "consummated" his "marriage" right then and there. May not have been lust, but he had to have her right away. No one knows how she felt about it. Of course that wouldn't matter, she was the wife of an Infidel.
konagnu 4 years ago
Konagnu, if u still want to discuss the marriage of Muhammad I would be glad too.
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm7: Which marriage would you like to discuss? He had many. 11 or 13 wives at one time (the number depending on the account).
konagnu 4 years ago
no he never had 11 at a time but he di hav 11 total.
Well which marriage do u want to discuss?
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm7: You could start with Aisha,or his adopted son's wife Zaynab bint Jahsh.
konagnu 4 years ago
Aisha: Unlike wat many want to potrait of the marriage of Aisha being for sexual purposes is totally false. He married Aisha bcuz:
1. She was his best friend daughter
2. She had a good memory and does not hesitate to ask questions
3. He saw in her the ability to become of the most knowledgeable scholar of her time, which she later did after Muhammad's death.
It is said that witout Aisha more than half of Muhammad's Sunnah would be lost.
She was of the top 4 narrators of Hadiths
abdkrm7 4 years ago
Abdkrm7: I believe the issue is that Muhammad had sex with her when he was 55 and she was nine. She was also stuck by Muhammad in the chest & many Muslim men point to this (as well as other incidents to justify hitting their wives. Yes she was also involved in the war for succession of power in Islam instigating war against Ali in the 1st Fitna.
Hero or villian depending on who's story you are reading.
konagnu 4 years ago
No prove that Muhammad had sex with her at 9, he did live wit her at nine. As for the hadith bout her being hit in the chest I will hav to look that up.
And plz do u kno details about the war? She was involved but doesnt mean she was against Ali.
abdkrm7 4 years ago
After the death of Uthman, many including Aisha wanted to avenge the death of Uthman. Ali and others refuse to avenge the death which will lead to civil war. He then had peace talks with Aisha and but side agree not to fight. But those among Ali's Army under the leadership of Abdullah bin Saba attacked Aisha which lead to a battle. But later on Ali stopped the battle and told Aisha about the confusion.
abdkrm7 4 years ago
As for him hitting Aisha:
Aaishah said: "Allaah's Messenger never hit anything with his hand ever, except when fighting in the path of Allah. Nor did he ever hit a servant or a woman." [Recorded by Ibn Maajah.
There is a mistranslation of the hadith.
The word used is (dafa'a)"to push"
The hadith should read "He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore"
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm7:Age 9: Sahih Bukhari Vol 5 bk 58 #234 & #236 Vol 7 book 62 #s 62,64,65,88
Sahih Muslim Book 8 #s 3309,3310,3311
Sunnan Abu Dawud Bk 41 #s 4915 & 4917
Tabari Vol 9 pg 131, Vol 7, pg 7
Hitting Aisha: Sahih Muslim(4:2127)Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."
konagnu 4 years ago
I agree Aisha was nine but dont agree that Muhammad had sexual relations with her at 9.
and I already discuss the part bout hitting Aisha or should I explain further?
ANd plz read about the Battle of the Camel for yourself and what led up to it and how it was resolved or do I have to explain it oo?
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm7: Zaynab bint Khuzayma although a widow, was also a child when married to Muhammad. There are no accurate accounts of all the slaves he took as concubines and how many were children.
Re the battle, you need to read about it if you think Aisha was not against Ali. How it was resolved is irrelevant to that issue. The accounts are that she spent the rest of her life under "house arrest" after her side lost.
konagnu 4 years ago
abdkrm7: I missed your discussion about Muhammad's act of hitting Aisha in the chest. She said he hit her in the chest causing her pain. What ever the reason, it happened and some Muslims use that (along with other Qur'anic verses) as justification for beating their wives. In many of the 57 Islamic states, there are no legal protections for women who are beaten by husbands, brothers, fathers etc. Honor killings are often not prosecuted.
konagnu 4 years ago
I hav never heard of people using the claim to hit their wive. I dont care bout the 52+
"muslim" countries and I would prefer they perish.
like I said earlier the Hadith was mistranslated.
the word used is dafa'a "to push"
It should read "He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore"
abdkrm7 4 years ago
i recommend you read the whole hadith for yourself.
It is said that he would place his hand on his companions as a sign of appreciation just like patting someone on the back.
(Bukhari and Muslim) I mentioned it to the Messenger of Allah who then struck his hand on my chest so hard that I could see the trace of his fingers on it, saying: 'O Allah! Grant him steadfastness and make him a guide of righteousness and a rightly-guided one!'
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm7: I think the west would be more accepting of Islam and Muslims, if, they would quit trying to deny women's second class status and Islam's call for subjugation of Kafir & just admit the truth and work toward reforming those aspects of Ialam. So many things are so crystal clear yet I see, especially Western Muslims trying to cover up those issues that are embarrising in the 21st century.
konagnu 4 years ago
Women's 2nd class status? Subjugation of Kafirs? Islam doesnt need reformation
abdkrm7 4 years ago
How does Islam give women 2nd class status and how does it subjugate kafirs?
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm7; Wow, where does one start. (2:282) Two women count as one man as witness in court.(4:11) & 4:176) Women share of inheritance less than a man's. Divorce (talaq). (4:34) Women are subject to a man's will. (2:228) Women are below men. Sura (2:223) Wives are property. (4:3) Polygamy. (4:129) mens needs come 1st. (4:24)(5:87) Nikah Mut'ah or temporary marriage. Bukhari (52:250) Women cannot travel alone.
konagnu 4 years ago
inheritance: the women does not hav to support the husband or the family with her money, so of course she will get less than the husband who MUST provide for the family.
4:34- A man is naturally stronger than he women giving him the ability to protect and provide for the family. Who will protect the wife other than the husband?
2:228 a mistranslation again. If u read the context it is talking bout rights between men and women. It then says "men have a degree(of responsibility) over them.
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm7: Your arguments make my point, there is no equality between the sexes. What part don't you get? If she does not have to support her husband, that is unequal, the reason for the inequality is not the issue, the issue is equality. The deductions I made from the quoted verses were not mine, but conclusions by Islamic scholars.
konagnu 4 years ago
Men and women are equal but not the same.
Mary the Copt: It was known that she became muslim and bore Ibrahim but it is not certain that Muhammad married her or she remained a slave.
abdkrm7 4 years ago
2:223- Your wive are something rich for you so do to them good during intercourse- something similar to that
4:129 dunno how u derive that from the verse
4:24 proves nothing when read in context.
Narrated Saburah ibn Ma'bad al-Juhani: "The Apostle of Allah prohibited temporary marriage with women. (Sunan Abu-Dawud)
The other hadith about temporary marriage is only for that specific time.
Bukhari 52:250: Also for the specific time for it wasnt safe that time to cross the desert alone.
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm7:You posted "Narrated Saburah ibn Ma'bad al-Juhani: "The Apostle of Allah prohibited temporary marriage with women."
Then please explain Mary the copt.
konagnu 4 years ago
Sorry, bout I dont recount any one other than Aisha that he took when he was a child. Also plz read bout slaves in Islam.
The Battle: On her way from Hajj, Aisha learns bout Uthmaan's death. She wanted to avenge his death. Ali refused to cause civil war since n one knew for sure who carried out the plan. Ali and many other companions refused to fight but Ali had no option so he went to talk to Aisha, they agreed on terms but during the night a group attacked Aisha's and battle broke out.
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm7:Hafsa bint Umar & Zaynab bint Khuzayma both were said to be about the same age as Aisha when they married Mohammad. Althouht their exact age is unknown, they were married to him about three years after his marriage to Aisha. which would put them some where between 11 and 14.
konagnu 4 years ago
Hafsa bint Umar and Zaynab were not the same age as Aisha.
Hafsah was 18+ when he married her and she was a widow
And zaynab was quite old for she was well known in the pre-islamic era she was also a widow.
abdkrm7 4 years ago 2
abdkrm7: you say "Hafsa bint Umar and Zaynab were not the same age as Aisha." Their were two wives named Zaynab, (Zaynab bint Khuzayma the younger one and Zaynab bint Jahsh the daughter in law.) the younger one only lived eight months after her marriage to the Prophet. Both Hafsa and Zaynab bint Khuzayma are described as being "about the same age as Aisha" they were married to the Prophet about three years after Aisha's marriage. Do the math. 11 to 14 at the time of marriage.
konagnu 4 years ago
Where do u get ur info from lol?
Hafsa: Married to Khunays ibn hadhafah who later passed away. She then married Muhammad in 3 A.H. She died in 45 A.H at age of 60. Do you math.
Zainab: Widow of ubaydha ibn Harith, married Muhammad in 4 A.H. Known as "Mother of the destitute" during the pre-islamic Era. Do you math
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm7: TWO DIFFERENT WIVES Named Zaynab.
1) Zaynab bint Khuzayma married 626 died 627
Only credible reference to her age at the time of the marriage was "close to the age of Aisha" died eight months after marriage, which was three years after the marriage of Aisha.
2) Zaynab bint Jahsh Muhammad's cousin and daughter-in-law age 35 when married to the Prophet.
konagnu 4 years ago
lol I kno the difference between the 2 Zaynab.
this Zainab died 8months after the marriage. She was also well known in the Pre-Islamic era.
For her to be well known as "Mother of the destitute" you must have been quite old at the time, definitely not little girl. She was also previously married. She MUST have been bout 27+. 13+4 = 17 which would be considered that she was born at the advent of Islam. But since she was well known she must have been born prior to Islam
abdkrm7 4 years ago
And Zaynab bint Jahsh married Muhammad in 5 A.H. and died in 20.A.H. at age of 53
53-15 = 38 at time of marriage.
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abskrm7: Please direct me to references which suggest that Zaynab bint Khuzayma was well known in Pre-Islamic era. With girls marrying at 9 and 10, a previous marriage does not give any evidence suggesting her age. Again the only account I have ever seen regarding her age was that she was near the age of Aisha. Three years after Aisha's marriage. 9+3 = 12 add a couple years for boot 14.
konagnu 4 years ago
When the Moon Split by Safiur Rahman. But srry i cant find hadith on Zainab, but only in the Seerah. And you can search her up on numerous sites.
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm7:Battle of Bassorah (Battle of the Camel, or Battle of Jamal) took place at Basra, Iraq in 656 between forces allied to Ali (Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law) and forces allied to Aisha.
History of Ibn al-Athir, v3, p206
Lisan al-Arab, v14, p141
al-Iqd al-Farid, v4, p290
Sharh Ibn Abil Hadid, v16, pp 220-223
konagnu 4 years ago
As for Zainab bint Jahsh: Zainab came from a known lineage of high status unlike that of Zaid. When Muhammad recommend Zaid to Zainab she got mad and something similar to "How could I marry someone who has no lineage and was a slave?" Then Muhammad said similar to "Lineage status is part of the Pre-islamic era and that everyone is equal regardless of lineage" So Zainab married Zaid since she did not want to go against Muhammad, but problems arose between the two. So later Muhammad married Zainab
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm7: the issue here is that Muhammad married his adopted son's wife. (His daughter in law). He "conveniently" had a revelation wherein Allah revealed to him that it was okay to do what had been a serious taboo. He apparently saw her nearly nude and wanted her for her beauty (lust). Most of us who look at these issues have no problem with the wives, but with the hypocrisy and pedophilia of Muhammad and how his actions have adversely affected women in Islam.
konagnu 4 years ago
Where is that prove that he saw her nearly naked or are u just repeating wut u heard?
The hypocrisy and pedophilla of Muhammad?
What hypocrisy?
Pedophilia? I already stated the issue about Aisha, the only one of his wives that was below 18 and the one of the 2 only virgins he married.
U see him marrying Zainab to be wrong bcuz of the Pre-Islamic customs but u dont see Zainab marrying Zaid to be wrong even tho it is not acceptable accoding to customs
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm7:pedophilia is when an adult has sexual contact with a child.
Al-Tabari:nearly naked: Al-Tabari: ""Zaynab had dressed in haste when she was told "the Messenger of God is at the door." She jumped up in haste and excited the admiration of the Messenger of God, so that he turned away murmuring something that could scarcely be understood. However, he did say overtly: "Glory be to God the Almighty! Glory be to God, who causes the hearts to turn!""
konagnu 4 years ago
sorry no need quoting Tabari he isnt an authentic source.
pe·do·phil·ia: sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object
Having 1 out of 11 wives below 18 and 2 wives that were not widows
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm7: "pe·do·phil·ia: sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object"
It is much like being a cock sucker, you only have to do it once. It is clear from the Hadeth, from the mouth of Aisha herself, that she was his favorite wife. She was 18 when he died, do the math. Muhammad fucked children, sorry, it's true.
konagnu 4 years ago
Like I said in my earlier comments. He married Aisha cuz he saw the potential of her being a great scholar of Islam. Also what do you think Aisha would say if she was alive today?
Bukhari:Book 7:Volume 62:Hadith 156
Narrated 'Aisha:
I never felt so jealous of any wife of Allah's Apostle as I did of Khadija
Children? Aisha was the only one he married at such a young age and there was a reason for it
abdkrm7 4 years ago
Abdkrum: How can one tell if someone is going to be a great scholar of Islam when at the time they were betrothed, she was 6 yrs old? and the religion was so new that an argument that contimplating scholorship experise is hot air and one would have to really bend logic or common sence to buy into that BS.
konagnu 4 years ago
Well, She was born after her parents became muslim so she was free from the evil of the Pagans. She was known for her formidable memory, she did not hesitate to ask questions. And Aisha said that Muhammad told her he saw her in a dream meaning it was a decree from God. But I doubt u believe that.
So since she was his best friend daughter, he choose her to train for the purpose of Islam
abdkrm7 4 years ago 2
Abdkrum: YOu quoted in support of Aisha'a having potential to be a great scholar of Islam. How does the following Hadith support that contention?
Bukhari:Book 7:Volume 62:Hadith 156
Narrated 'Aisha:
I never felt so jealous of any wife of Allah's Apostle as I did of Khadija
konagnu 4 years ago
No, that was in reply to another comment of yours.
abdkrm7 4 years ago
Abdkrum: I meant to ask you earlier, do you know any 6 year olds? 9 year olds? even 16 yr olds? Can you imagine yourself under any circumstance having your 55 year old uncle having sex with any of those children? Any sexual act between a man that old and a young (even 16-17) is a totally selfish (sexual) act on the part of the adult.
konagnu 4 years ago
Like I said there is no valid proof that he had sexual relations with Aisha at such a young age. He did live with her when she was nine tho.
And what would Aisha say about the accusations if she was around today?
Her parents agreed, the enemies of Islam who had more enmity toward Islam than you do did use that argument against him.
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm7: Regarding Aisha, again, I guess you cannot read, but look these up:
abdkrm7:Age 9: Sahih Bukhari Vol 5 bk 58 #234 & #236 Vol 7 book 62 #s 62,64,65,88
Sahih Muslim Book 8 #s 3309,3310,3311
Sunnan Abu Dawud Bk 41 #s 4915 & 4917
Unless you have a different understanding of the meaning of "consummated" within the context of marriage, it is clear the marriage was consummated at age 9.
I left out Tabara as you don't believe that is credible.
konagnu 4 years ago
lol how can u use english to define arabic?
Consummate: a: finish complete, b: to make perfect,
:to make (marital union) complete by sexual intercourse
:to become perfected
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm, you might want to read Bukhari Vol 1, Book 5, Number 268; it tells of MO visiting all his (11) wives in a day.
WRpeach 4 years ago
hmm, so wats ur point?
abdkrm7 4 years ago
abdkrm, I was scanning these comments and saw where you had said, "he never had 11 at a time but he did have 11 total." Having just discussed this elsewhere, and with the info on my mind, I'm passing to you so you don't repeat your error.
WRpeach 4 years ago
I might hav made the mistake but it also says in the hadith "And Sa'id said on the authority of Qatada that Anas had told him about nine wives only "
abdkrm7 4 years ago
Aloha, Several errors in your video Re #5. You chastise "hypocrites" citing polygamy in the Judao-Christian History. With respect to polygamy you must separate Judaism and Christianity, as polygamy has never been part of the Christian tradition, scripture or teaching.
It can never pe proved one way or the other regarding Mohammad marrying for lust, but there are several instances wherein the evidence is that he did. Two I recall from memory, not perfect but easy for you to research.below
konagnu 4 years ago
After seeing his adopted son's wife in partial dress, he requested that his son divorce her, Mohammad subsequently her and made his adopted son go back to using his name before the adoption. Also, he married the wife of a widowed "chieftain". (She became a widow during one of Mohammad's peaceful "conversions" of Infidels) Mohammad promised her as "spoils" to one of his followers until he saw her and took her for himself.
konagnu 4 years ago
I`ll tackle other aspects of your exposition.
The marriages of Muhammad. You claim that all
of them were for political reasons, including
the marriage to Aisha. Then you ask muslim people to provide you with evidence backing your claim. This seems to be the wrong methodology. I order to search for the truth
(if ever attainable) you should resort to
neutral historical investigation and not rely solely on accounts of muslim readers,for obvious reasons.
namemexy 4 years ago
My mentioning of Muslims to back up my cliams, was not of ALL the claims but of the issue of the Shia muslims. Please watch carefully my friend. But I enjoy the fact that you have takes an interest on my videos. Yes I know that toothbrushes did not exsist, they are some stick, not sure of the arabic name....
ozzycda 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Also, it is agreed upon most scholars that hitting the wife is the LAST resort, considering that the verse right after says that if nothing can be done, then a meeting of the family should occur to discuss the marriage or divorce. Also as I mentioned it is importent to relaize that Muhammad never beat any of his wives. So if Muslims where to acutally follow the Sunnah of the Prophet, they would not make wife a beating a commone practices. Peace
ozzycda 4 years ago
The name of the stick is Miswak and its literally a small twig! as it would have to be if was to be used as a tooth brush! you can usually get them from an Islamic center or a mosque shop.If ANYONE wants to confirm the size of one,& when u see the size of it you will know that if someone hits u with it (Miswak) it would probably tickle u more then anything! I suggest u go & see what one looks like people!! Its almost as dangerous as a ballistic missile(lol).peace.
muslim610 4 years ago
I meant: in order to search...not I (1stperson) order.Sorry!
namemexy 4 years ago
No problems my friend, thanks for takeing an interest in the subject and my videos! Let us go on a enlightning search together! Peace!
One more thing, of course not ALL of Muhammad's where for political reasons only. He loved his wives, its no mistake that political alliances and other issues of that nature arose out of those bonds. Look at Ali and Aisha, PEACE!
ozzycda 4 years ago
Colin, now why are you trying to make an apologetic exegesis of the contentious quranic verses ? Are you a muslim theologian ?
I guess not, hence what is your real intention actually ? It seems to be an attempt of apology at all costs. Why? What are your motives ? Could it be the Sockholm-syndrome,or simply the reluctance to have to cope with things that simply are the way they are ?
namemexy 4 years ago
No my friend, my goal is to expose Robert Spencer for doing a diservice to the Islamic text. I enjoy theology and cant stand it when people are praised for doing a diservice to scholarly work. I am not a theologian..yet I am a student. Please actually WATCH my videos and judge them on the actual CONTENT. Thank you for your support, and peace!
ozzycda 4 years ago
One more thing namemexy,
I am not trying to be "apologetic" I am just stateing the fact that I own almost ALL of the sources Robert Spencer uses in his book, and I found that he is not mentioning all verses and he his cherry picking his sources. Please watch my many examples on this topic, peace
ozzycda 4 years ago
@ozzycda. That`s what I am trying to do, judge the actual CONTENT and not degrade or malign you. Now to start with one of the issues:it is not a question to "beat the hell out of her", merely to beat her, is imo reprehensible. Moreover, take notice of the fact,that the verse(4;24) says: if you FEAR disloyalty ! In dubio pro rero!!! It implies that a husband could claim he fears etc. without the necessity of proving the commtment of a disloyal action.
namemexy 4 years ago
Sure my friend, but most commentaries, such as Yusuf Ali, claim that that disloyalty must be attached to sinning in some fashion. And any Hadith on thhe subject, which I mention in Part 2 of Ch.5 shows that this is a rare occasions that beating of wives occures. Also, the Hadith that Muhammad told his friend when asked what to hit his wife with, he told him to hit her with a tooth brush
ozzycda 4 years ago
Also almost all translations saw spank, or hit ligthly, and tape, your wife. That is why I said in the video, NOT beat the hell out of her. Also in the Sublime Quran translation, the Arabic word that is usually translated as hit or beat, can also be translated as leave OR depart from her. Peace!
ozzycda 4 years ago
@ozzycda. Well, let us stick to beat. This is the translation in all editions and by virtually all translators, not only into english but into other languages as well. Thus it can not be wrong. Attempts to give a
somewhat more benign meaning to the arabic
word raise the suspect of twisting apologetics
which -as you mentioned -is not your goal.
namemexy 4 years ago
So now 'beat' can mean 'depart'....you have got to be kidding?!
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
hello ozzycda.Now to come back again, the verse says"if you fear that...etc." You didn`t mention this relevant aspect. The exegesis of Yusuf Ali might not take it take into account either, other tafsirs can have a different opinion. However, that`s not the point. The point is the allowance to punish wifes physically (even though lightly)by Muhammad and the fact, that Muhammad claimed it to be a divine permit.
namemexy 4 years ago
Furthermore,the hadiths do not give evidence
about the actual practice of wife beating, they merely report of particular episodes. Thus, the practice of the quranic permission in the muslim community, can not be deduced
from particular hadiths as you claim.
By the way, to pick up a detail you mentioned ;in those days, toothbrushes as we know now, did not exist. I suppose they were
little sticks, at least that`s what I have seen in Ethiopia being used by poor people.
can not be deduced
namemexy 4 years ago
The exact word for 'beating' of women in Arabic is 'idreb' and it is the same word commonly used to describe the punishment for hostile horses and felons. It appears 12 times in the Quran.
Tell me how it means to 'tap lightly'. Use an Arabic lexicon, and lets talk about the root which describes things like 'beating eggs' and 'beating a carpet' [The Concise Oxford English-Arabic Dictionary; The Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic].
The real meaning of 'idreb' is obvious.
LothairLorraine 4 years ago
@lothairlorraine can you please stop commenting on islamic issues cuz u are not a scholar of islam u better learn about ur own bible u have prob with wife beating now wat about this one...If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.(Deuteronomy 25:11-12)..amazing stuffs right dont u have any problem with this one
jaed123 3 years ago
interesting intellectual review
NotYourEnemy 4 years ago
The points that you maid about the Prophet Mohammad giving advice to certain individuals that they must marry and divorce inorder to get remarried again, could be that he wanted them to be very sure that they wanted this original divorce.
Because of the natural jealousy that is in humans, one would think twice or be really sure that he/she wants a divorce. Do to the condition set forth that your partner must marry again and get divorced inorder to remarry.
ankroo 4 years ago
You should be on CNN debating this guy.
ankroo 4 years ago
excellent points!
ankroo 4 years ago
amazing job
as usual
Birne4Truth 4 years ago
excellent
Kafka05 4 years ago
Good points. Also note that the word used for "BEAT" is "DHARB", which is in singular format. (not DHARABAT which would be plural, hence it s a hit, not a "BEATING")
Moses also "DHARB"ed the sea with his Cane. He didnt beat the living crap out of the sea, he hit it once.
amooballer 4 years ago
nice tolerant point of view.
r9nger0ver 4 years ago
Awesome :-) Thanks for another great video! Salam!
LMartella 4 years ago
great video bro.
servant2000 4 years ago
Glad to have to have you back boss.
sofyan 4 years ago