Apparently, some people view the Bible as nothing more than a book of rules, and anything mentioned therein is given as an example to be followed. This is about as far from the truth as it gets, but what can you expect?
Man u r like dancin around in circles just answer the qustions strait up like for instance the bible says u should kill homosexuals, then the bible says thou should not kill, then it wants to say who is wit out sin cast the first stone it sounds to me like jesus was contradictin himself an couldnt make up his damn mind which explains your answers
at one time the world was so wicked that God had to flood the world and save only a few. the world is heading again into that path. but this time the church wont be here when everything goes to hell . Jesus himself will come back for his people . there is a reason why Christians are getting more vocal. we know that time is coming closer. we are trying to save our love ones before its too late. people are constantly getting mislead by false prophets and false preachers.
If there is such a thing as a gay christian, then we can conclude that there are murdering christians, lesbian christians, lying christians, prostitute christians, whoremongering christians, stealing christians. In the book of Titus, we are told: They profess that they know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. The first and last message of Christ was a message of REPENTANCE. TURN OR BURN, REPENT, OR PERISH.
The Atheist Argument Against God DESTROYED-cont'd There are actual eyewitnesses, many of them choosing a martyr's death by fire or consumption rather than deny what they knew to be true.Men and women die for many things; but no one dies for a myth...except maybe Al Gore, when it comes to global warming. In fact, there is more evidence for Christianity's Christ than there is for history's Julius Caesar.
"As Christians, we are often asked by atheists and scientists to prove that God exists; proof, by one definition, meaning empirical and falsifiable evidence, without which religion in general, and Christianity specifically, is nothing more than a myth. But is God a myth? And if so, how do you prove a myth?
Unlike the myths and legends of old, Christianity really did happen.
@Brucev7 A sexual sin is a sin when your lusting having sex without love remember church and state only recognize the committed relationship between two people in your case a man and women but Yehoshua recognize and seals it. But as far as you preying for me please don't I don't need your preyer's... You need to prey for yourself and hope you make it to heave when I face to face with the only one high and mighty I will deal with my judgement a lone so you need to mind your own business.
NO! He dont condemn homosexuals, they condemn their selves.They sin,they comit abomination agains God temple,and the price is HELL.They are the most inmoral and corrupt people of the world.They are monsters,a demond possesed persons.There is no diferent between an murderer and homosexual.Do you know how many people they kill their soul by seducin they to be homosexuals.They no only destroy their selves,they allways try to destroy others.And yes Jesus conden homosexuals and all sins.
If you can't take all the bible literally then you shouldn't take none of it literally. If you can't love you're enemies like GOD said then you can't condemn anything that Jesus nor GOD didn't condemned. That statement alone show that people no matter how educated or uneducated they are in the biblical translations they all take verses they like and uphold them higher then others. Case closed work on getting your own self in heaven, no man is perfect and all will be judged
@Tommy4503 Not the issue. the Bible is literature. You must interpret scripture within scripture. Psalm 50:10
for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills. Is it cattle on, or only on or only one-thousand hills? No. God owns everything.
@Brucev7 Well Bruce I really think a lot of people really don't get the bible and they almost all the time include bible scriptures with their own personal feelings. And that's fine if you believe what you want to but in the end we will all find out the truth and what says the Lord GOD. Yeshua / Yahoshua the just like the name JESUS is not his name and was created based on a lie you can just keep believing the rest of those tails.
@Tommy4503 Not about me, not about you. About the Creator who created you and I who loved is first and has the best plan, here and now for our lives. But as He says, men will love the darkness(sin) and not seek the light(truth), when it is the best they could ever find for their lives.
@Brucev7 What you are interpreting in sin is not but what you are doing is and the casting Judgement and yes you are doing that because I'm gay your telling me that I a sinner hehe your funny the I've researched the Hebrew bible the Hebrew bible does not condemn homosexuals and almost any other bible out there does not add up to the real Hebrew bible. And I'm done with this conversation you can say what you what to and believe what you want to I challenge you to do your research.
@Tommy4503 Not the issue. God in His Word does instruct to not engage in sexual sins, engage in acts outside of marriage between a man and a woman. This is His plan for family. To be fruitful and multiply. Homosexuality is not for procreation and is harmful. Biologically incorrect. It will not serve any purpose to try to explain a sin choice, a disobedience to God's commands and plan.
@Brucev7 And some of us are sent to earth to do just that complete a mission and go back home without leaving fruits behind. Some people should not be married or have kids everyday people are not marrying their intended partner's because the are rushing to copy the best friends and someone else relationship they are simply lost and off track and some will die not even known what their purpose in life was are never knowing the life that GOD did intend for them to have because they choose to rush
@Brucev7 and live a lie.... You will never shame me because I'm been me and will never live a lie I'm who Yehoshua created me to be and understand and no my purpose in life.... I will never give up who I am to please you are anyone else.,! The only way I would give up my partner is only if GOD say so and take the desires away. My life is my life and mine alone and when I face to face with Yehoshua / GOD we will deal with until then you need to mind you own life and stay out of mine
@Tommy4503 Tommy, tommy, it's not about me. When you sin, you sin not against me, you sin against God. I am just a messenger. God will give anyone Hell is they choose that. Live now, party, die later(or today), as the rich man in Luke who was hoarding in his barns. He is not a Puppet Master. he has given all people, His creation, free will.
@Brucev7 Your not a messenger you just think your one..... When you come up with so line that I have not herd already and when you can throw some sound proof that me been homosexual is a sin then I'll believe you. GOD/Yehoshua never spoke on the subject and never condemn homosexuals he condemned many from his own mouth but never homosexuals. Let me make clear for you even in that mistranslated book you call the holy bible the KJV if you read between the lines you'll find the truth and what Paul
@Tommy4503 what you really mean is you do not want to hear God, nor His message of freeing you from a life enslaved to sin. as long as you will tune God out, do not realize what your life is missing, you will never want the truth. You know very well Homosexuality is on the minimal, Biologically incorrect and that it does not fir into society. Not even counting the medical issues, lack of stablility in relationships, higher drug abuse, higher suicide rate, lack of following God's commands.
@Brucev7 Luke and the others were truly talking about and even then you need to research ancient man to really, Truly understand 2 refer to rape (Genesis 19:5, Judges 19:22)
@Brucev7 4 are nonspecific (Leviticus 18:21-22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26-27, 1 Timothy 1:8-10) and Leviticus law in the KING JAMES is a LIE Original Hebrew Text reads: Two men shell not engage in sexual activities in a women bed it is ritually unclean and the reason I included these four verses is because they are all the same nothing deferent just re-worded. I don't need to go back a forth with you becuase what you are say is only 5% truth a have no truth whatsoever!!!
10 His disciples said to him, "If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry." 11But he said to them, "Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can."
@Brucev7 I feel so sorry for you but then I don't because the truth is out there you just need to seek the truth for yourself and stop believing those tales you herd over the years and the lies or misinterpretation the KJV has input in what should be a holy book and remember KING JAMES was a HOMOSEXUAL himself.... LIE & DECEPTION
@Tommy4503 LOL. Oh don't feel sorry for moi, I have received the free gift. And even if James was, which I never have heard a valid Historian state that, so what?
@Brucev7 Look you idiot the roman Catholic Church Got you assholes mind twisted. 1. Male & Female produce other lives =babies that what nature intended with the two engage in sexual active. Regardless of anyone sexual perf. most of ever one can be fruitful but not ever one should and can't., do you not understand the the problems we would have if ever one was fruitful. Live by Jesus example and not by the world example GOD came to execute his mission without living any "fruits" behind.
@Tommy4503 I'm sure you've had are may still have your issues that you will have to take up with GOD someday that's what you need to worried about and not mine. My sins will be addressed with the most high I have to answer to no man including you so you can stop with your bible counter attacks because I know the bible like the back of my hand there is nothing you can tell me that I don't know or understand. Your KJV bible is full of lie's and misinterpretations even the name JESUS is a lie.
@Tommy4503 No Tommy, a follower of Jesus Christ, the godhead, should respond in love, obedience, willingness to "want" to live a sinless life, reflecting the life of Jesus Christ while he lived on this Earth. Do not make a cruicial mistake and 'wait' to see where the chips may fall. Don't wait Tommy. God is calling you. You have much work to do. Another Massive Earthquake is coming, tsunami, Flood...How can they hear?
@Tommy4503 My sin is being removed by the Holy Spirit. A follower must be willing to be pruned. You are refusing to be made in His image, sanctified. Set apart. That's Human stubbornness.
@Tommy4503 Tom, tom, catch your breath. I am not RC. And watch it with your choice of language. You are just demonstrating your agenda is defending your sin choices. Exactly, what I have trying to tell you! Following God's plan for Marriage, between a man and a woman, then a family.
@Brucev7 Bruce the only reason why gay men and women even want to get married is to enjoy the benefits of a committed couple. I don't know too many men that exited about marriage in the first place. And your talking about marriage like men and women really up hold marriage high. 1. Your killing each other 2. Marrying for money. 3 Marrying just because. 4. devoicing left and right straight couple have some many fucking issues dude I really don't won't to hear what you got to say anymore
@Tommy4503 But you do realize, the marriage your describing is a 'Human' designed marriage. Outside of God's provision. Of the flesh. The marriage of and by God is a trinity with God, if you picture a triangle, at the top.
loved being married. God did a lot of work on me in marriage. Probably my wife as well. I didn't know that till later. Well, Tom, if you keep your mind and heart closed to God, eternal life spent with Him, I think that is what I was trying to tell you before.
This man is somewhat educated but is laking a lot of knowledge and have not conducted any research, The only reason why he come to the conclusion that Jesus / GOD condemned homosexuality is because he's reading the newer translation of the Hebrew text thats been translated inaccurately. Leviticus law in the original Hebrew text read: Two men must not engage in sexual activity in a women bed it is ritually unclean.. He's clearly not educated in the area he speak on
Jesus has no opinion on homosexuality, because he is an invention of the Roman Catholic Church. How can you people still believe in the lies of the sin factory, the same one that altered the scriptures, and obliterated the name Yeshua like the Pharaohs of old.
@stoodOnAnArk, How can you even say that when there wasn't even a single one bishop of Rome until the second century and we have writings of Paul discussing Jesus in 1 Corinthians 15:3 that date back to within 4 to 7 years after Jesus' death?.
How can you say the New Testament was altered when we have 5,700 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament dating closer to the original than any other work in classical history as well as over one million quotations of the NT from the patristic fathers?
@52blades The Catholic cult claims in pride to exist back as far as the 12 Apostles. You know the ones that betrayed and murdered Christ. We didn't know him, we wasn't with him, and one delivered him up. Who killed Christ? They thought they killed God, only the messenger. We shall unremmber his name, let our Jesus sit on his face. This is usually where Christians have a hissy fit and go mental, are you still with me?
1) Romanism hadn’t developed during the authorship of the New Testament and wouldn't do so until 313 A.D. when it would have been impossible to alter the scriptures.
2) Your claim about the "altering of scriptures” is pure speculation and refuted by textual criticism.
I won’t pursue you because I don’t care to entertain you.
@52blades The oldest of all Greek manuscripts does not contain the precursor for the lie of the Jesus name. Even Paul refutes this name as a pale horse substitute of the genuine Christ's Jewish name. I find it interesting that you completely refute the last reply. Is it truth? Did I lie?
@stoodOnAnArk, Iesous is the only way to transliterate Yeshua into Greek, that is why the Gospel writers use it. There is no other possible translation. There is no yod or shin in Greek and an “S” must be added to the end for grammatical reasons. The pronunciation of Iesous with a J arose because it was transliterated into German. It’s not like it’s a secret being foisted on the masses.
@52blades Codex Siniticus the oldest complete Greek manuscript of the New Testament does NOT, I repeat NOT, contain the word "iesous" this mistranslation came later.. "IYXT" Revelation 1:1 Codex Siniticus, is closest to Yahu. Yahuahshua (English) the correct name revealed to the Yahudi, Yeshua in Aramaic. His Creator Yahuah of hosts. Christians killed the messenger not the creator, Christ did not speak to himself, you know? Nor would he approve of worshiping dead men of crosses.
@stoodOnAnArk The Hebrew text thats been translated inaccurately Leviticus. Law in the original Hebrew text read: Two men must not engage in sexual activity in a women bed it is ritually unclean.. He's clearly not educated in the area he speak on. You need to do your research the KJV has been mistranslated go get educated
Man how can a person talk so much about something so simple, Jesus always condemn something that is bad for one self or/& others. It doesn't take much thought to see that homosexuality is bad for oneself & others. But I want you to tell me if eating dog poop is condemned by Christ? LOL If I did a 18 min. diatribe on dog poop eating, one would think I was loco, just getting high off from my intellectualism, but I don't need a book to tell me what's right or wrong, even as imperfect as I am.
@sparkiersuperjet Is that your evidence for homosexuality? So now if you love someone, and console them in some way, or let them rest their head on you (shoulder or chest or whatever), that is deemed homosexual? No, it is not. Definition of homosexuality; "a sexual attraction to (or sexual relations with) persons of the same sex". Also note, there are different types of love too, in case you didn't know. I'm sure when you were hugging your mom or dad, you didn't want to make love to him/her...
this guy is so annoying, he can't seem to say anything without adding a lot of blabber in between. how did he get this job without basic communication skills?
on the homosexuality thing, he's just another homophobe taking the bible out of context for to persecute homosexuals.
ask him if he thinks slavery is OK, the OT is quite supportive of slavery, poygamy too. it's funny how you bring that up and they say those laws aren't valid anymore, but somehow the anti-gay ones still are. hypocrites!
No, he doesn't take the Bible out of context. It's clear. Homosexuality is an abomination to God. And why would he think slavery is ok? Christianity got rid of slavery in the US. If you want to talk about slavery, go to Islam. They still practice it.
wow, you sure don't know shit about the bible then, because the same parts that call homosexuality an abomination also say it's ok to take slaves from neighboring countries and sell your daughters into slavery too. it also says farmers who grow two kinds of crops should be stoned to death, and animals must be sacrificed to god on special occasions. that was my point, if you believe those passages about homosexuality you must believe all the others too, if you cherry pick them you're a hypocrite.
actually the bible does not say that its okay. what it says is that since that was already practiced by society that christians have a responsibility to treat any slaves they own well and decently
First you say that homophobes take the Bible out of context wrt to homosexuality. Then you admit that the Bible calls homosexuality an abomination. Who's the hypocrite? It's obvious to me that you don't know your Bible AND you don't know God.
Homosexuality is a sin, plain and simple. You either commit it willingly, or you abhor and hate it because it's against the way God created us and against the way He wants us to live.
Holy crap how many times to I have to explain it before you ppl can understand my point? The bible DOES say homosexuality is an abomination in the OT, that same book of the bible says that you can't wear blended fabrics, or touch a menstruating woman, or trim your sideburns. it says you can kill your children, or sell them into slavery. THE POINT is that you cannot accept the homosexuality law and reject the others, that is hypocritical, understand yet?
The point is, the title of his video is "Did Jesus condemn homosexuality". His answer was yes. You criticized him for being a homophobe and said he was taking the Bible out of context. My response was he was not taking the Bible out of context. Now you agree that the Bible does say that homosexuality is an abomination. You are the hypocrite.
By bringing in other Levitical laws, you seek to create a strawman argument to discredit what he says about homosexuality. You are a bad little monkey.
it's funny, you can lead the fundamentalist to logic and reason but you can't make him understand.
i don't think you understand what "taking out of context" means. the context of leviticus is old hebrew laws that jesus supposedly freed us from. so for him to quote lev 25:44 as still applicable, but dismiss the others, is hypocritical. that's logic 101, and if you can't understand that then there's no hope for you.
define the terms however you want to fit your warped view of god. the end, bye.
i think i just figured this out! i was just sitting here thinking about this idea you're repeating and realized that you definitely do not understand the term "taking out of context." you think it means something akin to "putting it in your own words." let me define it for you. taking out of context is where a passage is removed, word for word if you want, from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning. look it up, because you obviously don't understand the term.
ha! one more thing. it's obvious you didn't watch the video! because he never ever says the answer to "Did Jesus condemn homosexuality" is yes. Now it's really obvious you haven't read your Jesus, because Jesus never, ever condemns homosexuality! Ever! Get out a red letter bible and try to find one single place he ever even brings up the subject. Jesus does NOT! Man you really are just batting out of your league, I'm not wasting any more time on you. Educate yourself, then open your mouth!
Yes you're right. He did not directly condemn it. Like the Greg says however, this does not necessarily mean he supports it either although he did not condemn it. He did however emphasize greatly the completion that happens through the marriage of a man and a women. He says "they become one flesh." So did he condemn it, no. Did he teach for it, no.
It's obvious to me YOU don't know YOUR bible. Get out leviticus, open to the 25th book and read that list of "God's Laws," by the time you get to the homosexuality rule you will have read about 2 dozen of "God's Laws" that you have been breaking all your life. Somehow it's OK for you hypocrites to ignore the animal sacrifice, slavery and menstruation laws but then still condemn homosexuality, when they come from the same list of rules. THEN go get a dictionary and look up the word HYPOCRITE.
you are just trying to confuse the issue now, i'm not going to say it again. it's really obvious to anyone with basic reasoning skills what my point is by bringing those things up. lev 25:44 is part of that list of rules, you choose to call that one valid and ignore the rest, hypocritical, the end. you have no credible argument so now you're trying to lead the discussion in circles. you are determined to believe something that makes no sense, so believe it.
i didn't admit anything, i never denied the bible says that. you just don't understand the term "taking out of context." HA! you are busted little ignoramus! that is just so damn funny! but at least now i understand what you're trying to say! you need a little more study before you try to debate with the big boys. start by reading books, and looking up terms you don't understand, like taking out of context!
Today christians do not practice the old jewish laws set out in Leviticus. Why? Because they believe that Jesus freed us from those laws, and now we "live in grace." So for any christian to quote old jewish laws in an argument against homosexuality is simply hypocritical, because if they are not practicing those laws and don't believe they are sinning because of it, how can they say it's a sin for others?
It's just a hypocritical way for the bigots to justify their predjudices.
Really. That must mean that murder is now OK, stealing is OK, adultery is just fine, respecting your mother and father is no longer necessary just to name a few. Your interpretation of scripture needs a lot of work. In addition, both the old and the new testaments condemn homosexuality as wrong. Take a look at Romans.
Really. That must mean morality doesn't exist outside the bible, that no other religion or philosophy ever in the history of man condemned murder, stealing, etc. Your logic needs some work, because my point was not that nothing in the bible is valid, my point was that the bible is not an infallible document, take from it what's worth taking, take the rest with a grain of salt (or in some cases, a pile.)
I take the words of Jesus as God's word, everything else is questionable, including Paul.
I do find it interesting that you are happy to use the convenient parts of scripture that you like serious and then just chuck the rest and say it must not be God's Word because I disagree with what it says. Homosexuality is one of the consistent wrongs presented in scripture, both OT and NT. You can't name for me one passage in the entire bible that calls homosexuality a good thing, yet I can name dozens of passages that call it a bad thing. Case closed.
i didn't say "chuck the rest," stop putting words in my mouth. i said "take with a grain of salt." do you know what that means? it does not mean chucking anything. like the part that says it's ok to kill your kid if they insult you, am i to take that literally? i don't and i doubt you do either. i put it in the context of the time, same with the anti-gay stuff. same with the shellfish and mestruation laws, and the polygamy and animal sacrifice. so do you, you're just a bigot abusing the bible.
"take it with a grain of salt" in practice means "ignore the parts I don't like." Sounds like chucking it to me. Second, all these passages have to be studied in context if we are going to understand their meaning. The "kill your kid" was never recorded to have been done ever and if someone was to try to do it they had to take their kid to court first in order to justify it which was a vast improvement over the commonly accepted "honor killing" ways of their neighbors.
No, it absolutely does not mean that. Look it up, you really don't know what that experession means? It means that it should not be blindly accepted and believed without any doubt or reservation. If you are past the junior college stage you should be looking up definitions, not making them up.
You are putting that "kill your kid" scripture in the context of the times right there, so you don't take it literally as God's word then?
Once again, you're avoiding the main point. Ignoring the parts of scripture you don't like just because you don't like them is a pretty lame excuse. If the bible consistently has one message and one message alone in regards to an issue, then you have to be honest enough with the text to say that it has a clear message on that issue. Everywhere it is mentioned in scripture, homosexuality is condemned. Therefore, the obvious teaching of scripture is that homosexuality is wrong.
Aren't you doing the same thing every time you eat shellfish? The bible consistently forbids eating it. It even calls shellfish an ABOMINATION, in two places! It has a clear message on the issue of shellfish, they are an ABOMINATION, so every time you eat shrimp or lobster you have committed an abominable sin against God, right? Everywhere it is mentioned in scripture, eating shellfish is condemned. Therefore the obvious teaching of scripture is that eating shellfish is wrong.
Like I said, eating kosher was an act of obedience. There was nothing wrong with eating shellfish except that God called the Israelites not to eat them. Besides, God specifically calls off the ban to Peter in Acts, so you have no argument.
so abomination when referring to homosexuality means evil, but only means obedience in reference to shellfish? You create your own definitions to fit your hateful views, so you have no argument. And Acts was not written by God. Just because something is in the bible does not make it the word of God. That's the thing we will never, ever agree on. And thankfully there are many other church going christians who use their brain instead of blindly believing anything written in the bible.
So in other words, your ultimate guide to morality is your heart. If something doesn't agree with your PERFECT sense of right and wrong, something must be wrong with it, not your heart. Because your heart couldn't possibly believe something that is a lie. Your heart couldn't possibly lead you astray. You don't consider it at least a little arrogant to believe that your heart is the ultimate guide to right and wrong?
i didn't mean that at all, the heart is not a good guide to morality, neither is reason, or the conscience, NEITHER IS THE BIBLE. Why? Because back when the church was in charge, there were witch burnings and crusades and spanish inquisitions and all sorts of violent and horriblly IMMORAL things done in the name of Christianity, in the name of GOD. The majority determines morality on a pragmatic level, as in, who goes to prison and why. On a spiritual level only God can be the judge.
You never judge a religion by its adherants, but by its teaching. Which is why I believe homosexuality to be wrong. Because God's word teaches it. If God says it is wrong, it is.
Again that's where we'll never agree, what you call God's word I call words inspired by God. There is no proof that God ever intended the bible to be taken literally as his word, and there never will be. Fundamentalism is damaging to christianity, it deters people from Jesus gospel.
Ridiculous. Books of law are not meant to be taken subjectively (The Torah). Books of history are not meant to be taken subjectively (Joshua-Esther). Certainly, the books of poetry and prophecy have an element of figurative language just as all books in those genres were meant to be taken somewhat figuratively. I take the books of the bible as they were meant to be taken. And if you do enough study of those books, you can pretty well figure it out.
You obviously didn't get my point about the difference between laws of obedience and pointing out evil acts. Evil is evil. The OT and NT call homosexuality an abomination. That's about as evil as you can get. That doesn't change over time. Shellfish, menstruation laws and animal sacrifice are all obedience factors, not evil acts. And polygamy was never condoned by God in scripture. That was a cultural thing, but it was never propped up by God as good.
Again, you're making up your own definitions! Abomination does not mean evil in ANY book.
Seriously show me a dictionary that defines "abomination" as evil! It means "a vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, habit, etc." So if you admit those are obedience factors, why don't you have to obey now? Aren't you in violation of God's law?
The bible uses the term "abomination" only about things it considers the worst of the worst, ie evil. If you can't be honest with the text, that's not my problem. And there are some things that are considered more than just being disobedient in scripture. They are evil in all times, places and cultures. One is murder. Another is adultery. And another is homosexuality. All 3 of them are condemned as wrong throughout scripture, OT and NT. Once again, case closed.
No, you show me where the biblical definition of abomination is different from the dictionary definition. You talketh out thy ass. Stealing and murder are imprisonable and capital offenses respectively, but homosexuality is neither, why? Because homosexuality does not hurt anyone.
Since the bible was written in Hebrew and Greek before English came into existence, it seems to me you are the one taking liberties. Murder, adultery and homosexuality all had the death penalty in the OT because God wanted to demonstrate how serious all of these sins were. And if you think cutting off 20 years of your life, which is the typical amount of years less a homosexual has on this planet, is not hurting anyone, you aren't as "compassionate" as I thought you were.
there were lots of offenses that carried the death penalty in the OT, including insulting your parents, blasphemy, prostitution and my personal favorite...sleeping with your mother in law. do we kill people for these things today? no. why? because this is the age of logic and reason, not superstition and tyranny.
your determination to keep that kind of tyranny alive is what turns people off from the gospel as a whole. they see it as a violent and ugly religion because of people like you.
"So for any christian to quote old jewish laws in an argument against homosexuality is simply hypocritical, because if they are not practicing those laws and don't believe they are sinning because of it, how can they say it's a sin for others?"
This was the quote I was addressing and I showed you how ridiculous it is. Christians use the 10 Commandments all the time specifically because they are relevant for today.
but how can you say what's relevant and what's not? animal sacrifice, shellfish, trimming your sideburns, if those are truly god's laws who are you to decide they are obsolete? how is it so hard to get that it's hypocritical to accept lev 20-13 as literal and blow off the others? it's willful delusion, you are cherry picking that law to support your predjudice. case closed. i'm not going to repeat it again, if you can't understand that point you are very unintelligent or willfully delusional.
I assume we're both past the junior high stage, so why don't you stop with the personal attacks and debate like a man. We're both intelligent and we're both seeking the truth, so why don't you at least attempt to stick to logic and stop with the ad hominem attacks. Otherwise, it shows the weakness of your arguments that you need to resort to errors in logic such as ad hominem attacks in order to "prove" your point.
Sorry. That's like the pot calling the kettle black. I'm the one who takes seriously the entirety of scripture and deals with every passage that talks about homosexuality at face value. Since homosexuality is condemned throughout the entirety of scripture every time it is mentioned, and there is not one passage from scripture that says it is a good thing, logically you don't have a case from a scriptural standpoint. Unless you can name chapter and verse. Good luck.
It doesn't say baseball is a good thing either, so it that a basis for condemning baseball? Jesus never condemned homosexuality. It was condemned by ignorant people falsely claiming to speak for God, including Paul. Jesus is my lord and savior, not Paul or anyone else involved in writing the bible. Fundamentalism is a fairly recent phenomenon, even the people that assembled the bible didn't expect it to be taken as God's literal word.
The bible doesn't condemn baseball as wrong in the OT or the NT as far as I know, does it? Then it doesn't say one way or another. That is not the case with homosexuality. The bible says it is wrong every time it is mentioned. And Paul was a tremendous amount more knowledgeable about what Jesus said and did then you or I considering he walked and talked with those who knew him. And the condemnation of homosexuality has been universal in the church up until 50 years ago.
Maybe he did, but he wasn't universally accepted by them as an apostle, he gave himself that title, based on a vision he had that was different every time he told about it, with witnesses he could not name. He had himself put on house arrest and then held himself up as a martyr imprisoned by the romans for his beliefs. He was also a pagan, all our "christian" holidays are renamed pagan holidays because of his paganized version of christianity. He was a carpetbagger of the Jesus movement.
Yikes. You've been reading 1 too many sci-fi novels. Not sure where you got this crap, but it's about time you read the truth in the book of Acts. To say that you know better what Paul was like than the 100s of scholars who chose to put his letters into the canon of scripture 1500 years before you were born is a little presumptuous.
you didn't refute anything i said directly, so i guess you have no rebuttal. paul was a charlatan, and i'm not even close to the only person that thinks so. use the power of google to find the vast amount of qualified criticism of paul out there. there were political reasons to include his letters, and just because he was backed by some scholars doesn't make him above criticism. paul hijacked the jesus movement, and there is a mountain of evidence out there if you only are willing to look at it.
I'm happy to look at evidence, but I already know what the overwhelming majority of scholarship throughout the history of the Christian church believes about Paul, and so I know your scholars are in the vast minority ie the fringe. To say that Paul hijacked Christianity is simply delusional. Are you a 9/11 truther as well?
yes i am, are you a 9/11 doofer? you believe buildings can collapse perfectly at near freefall speed into dust from being hit by planes? now that's real faith. and it confirms that you are not a critical thinker. you respect the majority view simply because it's the majority view. you aren't interested in the truth, the official propaganda suits you fine. oh, and sorry if you feel insulted by this, but you're really boring too. and unfortunately i am allergic to boredom so i'm moving on.
I believe that the engineers from Popular Mechanics know a heck of a lot more about when buildings collapse than you or I do. And it seems that conspiracies are your thing since you hold to so many of them. Hopefully eventually you will begin to become a little more selective in which websites to believe. It would make you a little more credible.
the architects and engineers for 9/11 truth are no less qualified. the pilots for 9/11 truth are also experts, but unlike the pop mechanics guys, they are not a hearst publication, a major media conglomerate with ulterior motives. but anyway this is a different subject, if you want to go there, fine, but you're going to get floored because i'm much more studied on the subject.
You're right. I don't study cooky conspiracy theories very often. I'm sure you are more studied on it than I do. I simply don't like to spend my precious time on things I know are inherently ridiculous. If you believe it, that's your problem, not mine.
how do you know they are inherently ridiculous if you don't study them? you can't possibly know the truth about something you've chosen to remain ignorant about. but that's what makes horrible things like 9/11 possible, the cocksure ignorance of people who blindly trust the government and the corporate media. and the 9/11 truth movement is no longer fringe either, the number of people who believe the government had something to do with it is now over 30%, and that's CNN's numbers.
@jwallbanger That's frightening. Have you seen the DVD "The Third Jihad"? It is about a moderate Muslim who has dedicated his life to exposing radical Islam.
God does not change what is right or wrong. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. What he does change is how he relates to his people. Working on the Sabbath was a way to show obedience to God. So God eventually changed it. Eating kosher was also a way to show obedience to God. So he changed it. Murder, stealing, homosexuality, envy are always wrong because they are called evil in scripture. Evil acts are always wrong in scripture no matter what time period you are in.
Oh BS. You can't lump homosexuality in with murder and stealing. Homosexuality hurts no one. And why is it that if you're so pro 10 commandments you aren't out protesting and debating polytheism and taking the lord's name in vain? Why do you single out homosexuality to make an issue out of? It's the same as when southern christians used the bible to justify their racism. you are not using it to grow in grace as a child of God, you are abusing it to justify your predjudices, "case closed."
I can lump it in with murder and stealing because both the OT and NT call it an abomination. It is evil according to scripture, just the same as murder and stealing. And by the way, I do debate polytheism and taking the lord's name in vain as wrong. So I am consistent. And anyone can make the bible say anything if they don't take scripture in context. Hitler could take a few verses from scripture and try to justify his cause. Doesn't make it a valid interpretation of scripture.
Again, look up "abomination." Anyone can call a BS interpretation of scripture valid, including YOU.
And I don't care if I convince you or anyone, I just think it's sad that so many see Christianity as narrow and hateful because of people like you.
They throw out Jesus beautiful message of salvation because of all the nasty, gutterball bigotry in my religion. We are all sinners, and Jesus told us to fix our own sin before pointing out other people's, and not to judge other people's souls either.
Since you like Jesus' words so much, let me share a quote:
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
So Jesus called the way of salvation narrow, not I. And I find it interesting that because I defend the biblical position that I'm called hateful, nasty and a bigot. Is that loving? Wow. And aren't you judging me as well?
Narrow by a different definition, are you sure you went to college? The way I used it it meant small minded.
I believe that quote, I believe everything Jesus said as the infallible word of God. I do not believe homosexuals are excluded from finding the narrow gate because of their sexuality.
Jesus is clear that we are to focus on our own sins, not other people's. You are judging people's sins, and I am simply pointing out that your motive is prejudice, not religious righteousness.
First of all, you have no idea what my motive is, so don't even try. Only God knows the thoughts and intents of our hearts. I have just as pure motives as you do. Secondly, I never said people who commit homosexual acts are excluded from heaven, merely stating that the bible very clearly condemns homosexuality as sin. Thirdly, you are judging my motives as wrong in this very post, aren't you? Fourthly, Jesus judged the Pharisees and his disciples all the time.
reason dictates that the only possible motive for cherry picking one sin out of a long list, and disregarding the rest, is that you have some kind of personal bias regarding that one sin. no amount of pseudo-intellectual sophistry can prove otherwise, it is simply hypocritical and bigoted behavior. the end.
For someone who says I shouldn't judge, you sure do an awful lot of judging. I'm hypocritical and bigoted because I dare to take the bible seriously and merely uphold what it says. I knew you couldn't hold off on the ad hominem attacks. "pseudo-intellectual?" The personal attacks keep coming and coming and coming...
Sorry. Never once did I judge someone's soul. I judged their actions. Through this entire discussion, I have referred to homosexuality as a sin, not condemning homosexuals. Big difference and one you need to figure out. Because I judge someone's actions has nothing to do with whether I judge someone's soul. 2 distinct things. Especially if I have god backing me up throughout scripture as a source. God has a lot better idea of what is right and wrong than you do. Or me for that matter.
Was Jesus following his own advice? Or are we to understand his saying differently? Of course our central concern should be our own sinfulness. But to say that we don't call sin sin is a ridiculous statement. If we don't judge other people, then we really shouldn't judge murderers. Or stealers. Or people who kill 6 million Jews. Or people who guide planes into buildings. After all, we need to be concerned with our own sin, right?
there is a big difference between morality and sin, just like there's a big difference between morality and law. sometimes the are congruent, sometimes not. you are either misunderstanding what i said or intentionally twisting my meaning.
judging the morality of another's actions is different than judging another person's soul.
Man can judge man's actions, but only God is qualified to judge a soul. or do you think matt 7-5 is not spiritual in meaning?
Who ever judges someones soul in this entire conversation? Certainly not I. I said homosexuality was a sin according to scripture. That's all I've been defending this entire time. How is that judging someone's soul? Please tell me?
you never said "according to scripture" you've been saying it's sin according to god's word. ok i'm done because this is argument is skipping like a broken record. if you want to switch to 9/11 fine, but the last thing i'll say is that you need to start looking up word's you don't understand. so far you've misused "take with a grain of salt, " "abomination," "narrow" and "ad hominem attack." seriously, get a dictionary. use it.
Thanks for the patronization, but I know exactly what each of them mean not only as dictionary definitions but in practical terms where the rubber meets the road. Apparently, you haven't developed that skill yet. Hope you do in the near future.
Well one good patronization deserves another. You are full of BS though with your practical rubber spiel. I say prove it. Demonstrate where I used an ad hominem argument. You don't understand the term. Show me where abomination is defined as evil, show me where "take with a grain of salt" is defined as throwing out what you don't like.
oh and another thing, there may have been some christians in the abolitionist movement, but there were a lot more in the south that used those old testament slavery laws to defend slavery. you can't say christianity got rid of slavery without mentioning the vast christian movement that defended slavery as well, or again, you're a HYPOCRITE.
What an ignorant fool you are. Did you bother to watch the video all the way through? Do you know the difference between the Old Testament and the New? Do you know what the OT Law was about - who it was given to and for what purpose?
I don't know why I even waste my time with people like you. You have no interest in real discussion and you spout off nonsense when you don't even know what you're talking about. Goodbye.
And you just made my entire point, suggesting you didn't bother to even try to understand my post. My point is that even though Christians believe that Jesus freed us from the old laws set out in Exodus and Leviticus, they still quote Lev. 20-13 as God's infallible rule against homosexuality. They cherry pick that rule out of all the others considered no longer valid and say it still applies. You responded with immature insults and I responded with rational, evidence based civil discussion.
Oh and as a Christian you should know better than to call me a fool, because now, according to Matthew 5:22, you are going to hell for calling me that.
when you use words like undoubtedly, this would seem to suggest that the vast majority of New Testament scholars hold to the position which you just stated. The problem with that statement is that the vast morjority of New Testament scholars do not hold to that position. Your comment shows a lack of understanding for honest history.
L 25-44 " 'Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Yeah, Jesus has credibility - among Christians. The way Koukl presents it, you'd think Jews, Hindus, atheists, etc. all use Jesus as an authority figure when they argue amongst themselves.
Non-Christians cite Jesus (the words attributed to him by the whoever wrote the gospels, anyway) to Christians as a way of shutting them up.
>"If there is anything of value in the Judeo-Christian death cult it is the seductive message of universal love. "Judge not lest ye be judged," "do unto others...," "love thy neighbor..." and "this above all: love one another" pretty much sum it up, & come from traditions thousands of years older than Judaism. The rest of the Bible is political manipulation and threats meant to strike fear in the hearts of primitive tribal nomads. This doubletalking propagandist appeals to ignorance."
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There is no discussion with Judeo-Christian death cult inmates. They are brainwashed from birth to believe that their bigoted hatred is love. Multimillionaire professional like the cynical asshole in this video fan the flames.
Refute his rhetoric point by point if indeed it is nonsense. I don't think you can. It's one thing to say someone has spoken nonsense it's another to demonstrate it.
Trust me, if there were such a thing as the God of the Hebrews as described in that hodgepodge called "The Bible" he would have better things to do than worry about where a bunch of closet case hillbillies stick their little wee-wees.
All you Judeo-Christian-Muslim repressed homosexuals should just learn to enjoy having sex with each other and stop torturing the rest of the world. Leave us in peace, you crazy motherfuckers, before you blow up the planet.
@Brucev7 "Denial" is the latest pop psychology term hijacked by Bible thumpers in their effort to disparage rational people who laugh at their god delusions. Denial more accurately describes what repressed homosexual preachers go through as they spread their irrational hate against gay people. Criminal insanity.
@funboy7979 'Rational?' Compared to what? 'repressed homosexual preachers.' You call your statement rational? How? Defending sin is not rational. That is the same as defending, setting someone's house on fire.
Apparently, some people view the Bible as nothing more than a book of rules, and anything mentioned therein is given as an example to be followed. This is about as far from the truth as it gets, but what can you expect?
OneEyedJack1970 5 months ago
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Man u r like dancin around in circles just answer the qustions strait up like for instance the bible says u should kill homosexuals, then the bible says thou should not kill, then it wants to say who is wit out sin cast the first stone it sounds to me like jesus was contradictin himself an couldnt make up his damn mind which explains your answers
isaac3rdcoin 6 months ago
at one time the world was so wicked that God had to flood the world and save only a few. the world is heading again into that path. but this time the church wont be here when everything goes to hell . Jesus himself will come back for his people . there is a reason why Christians are getting more vocal. we know that time is coming closer. we are trying to save our love ones before its too late. people are constantly getting mislead by false prophets and false preachers.
d731andre 8 months ago
One more thing, God is everything and everything is God...Yipee God is a homosexual too!
kelsorocs3 10 months ago
Damn...Have to love the karma ya'll are building on a website. Your "bible" is a joke for the most part. Never trust anything made by man.
kelsorocs3 10 months ago
If there is such a thing as a gay christian, then we can conclude that there are murdering christians, lesbian christians, lying christians, prostitute christians, whoremongering christians, stealing christians. In the book of Titus, we are told: They profess that they know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. The first and last message of Christ was a message of REPENTANCE. TURN OR BURN, REPENT, OR PERISH.
moseseseseses 11 months ago
The Atheist Argument Against God DESTROYED-cont'd There are actual eyewitnesses, many of them choosing a martyr's death by fire or consumption rather than deny what they knew to be true.Men and women die for many things; but no one dies for a myth...except maybe Al Gore, when it comes to global warming. In fact, there is more evidence for Christianity's Christ than there is for history's Julius Caesar.
Brucev7 11 months ago
The Atheist Argument Against God DESTROYED
Seeded by Anathema6205
You better run and hide Richard Dawkins!
"As Christians, we are often asked by atheists and scientists to prove that God exists; proof, by one definition, meaning empirical and falsifiable evidence, without which religion in general, and Christianity specifically, is nothing more than a myth. But is God a myth? And if so, how do you prove a myth?
Unlike the myths and legends of old, Christianity really did happen.
Brucev7 11 months ago
@Brucev7 A sexual sin is a sin when your lusting having sex without love remember church and state only recognize the committed relationship between two people in your case a man and women but Yehoshua recognize and seals it. But as far as you preying for me please don't I don't need your preyer's... You need to prey for yourself and hope you make it to heave when I face to face with the only one high and mighty I will deal with my judgement a lone so you need to mind your own business.
Tommy4503 11 months ago
NO! He dont condemn homosexuals, they condemn their selves.They sin,they comit abomination agains God temple,and the price is HELL.They are the most inmoral and corrupt people of the world.They are monsters,a demond possesed persons.There is no diferent between an murderer and homosexual.Do you know how many people they kill their soul by seducin they to be homosexuals.They no only destroy their selves,they allways try to destroy others.And yes Jesus conden homosexuals and all sins.
elreciodragon 11 months ago
If you can't take all the bible literally then you shouldn't take none of it literally. If you can't love you're enemies like GOD said then you can't condemn anything that Jesus nor GOD didn't condemned. That statement alone show that people no matter how educated or uneducated they are in the biblical translations they all take verses they like and uphold them higher then others. Case closed work on getting your own self in heaven, no man is perfect and all will be judged
Tommy4503 1 year ago
@Tommy4503 Not the issue. the Bible is literature. You must interpret scripture within scripture. Psalm 50:10
for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills. Is it cattle on, or only on or only one-thousand hills? No. God owns everything.
Brucev7 11 months ago
@Brucev7 Well Bruce I really think a lot of people really don't get the bible and they almost all the time include bible scriptures with their own personal feelings. And that's fine if you believe what you want to but in the end we will all find out the truth and what says the Lord GOD. Yeshua / Yahoshua the just like the name JESUS is not his name and was created based on a lie you can just keep believing the rest of those tails.
Tommy4503 11 months ago
@Tommy4503 Not about me, not about you. About the Creator who created you and I who loved is first and has the best plan, here and now for our lives. But as He says, men will love the darkness(sin) and not seek the light(truth), when it is the best they could ever find for their lives.
Brucev7 11 months ago
@Tommy4503 Your icon says a lot.
Brucev7 11 months ago
@Brucev7 My Icon what does the mean.??? Don't cast Judgement because the profile picture is me
Tommy4503 11 months ago
@Brucev7 What you are interpreting in sin is not but what you are doing is and the casting Judgement and yes you are doing that because I'm gay your telling me that I a sinner hehe your funny the I've researched the Hebrew bible the Hebrew bible does not condemn homosexuals and almost any other bible out there does not add up to the real Hebrew bible. And I'm done with this conversation you can say what you what to and believe what you want to I challenge you to do your research.
Tommy4503 11 months ago
@Tommy4503 Not the issue. God in His Word does instruct to not engage in sexual sins, engage in acts outside of marriage between a man and a woman. This is His plan for family. To be fruitful and multiply. Homosexuality is not for procreation and is harmful. Biologically incorrect. It will not serve any purpose to try to explain a sin choice, a disobedience to God's commands and plan.
Brucev7 11 months ago
@Brucev7 And some of us are sent to earth to do just that complete a mission and go back home without leaving fruits behind. Some people should not be married or have kids everyday people are not marrying their intended partner's because the are rushing to copy the best friends and someone else relationship they are simply lost and off track and some will die not even known what their purpose in life was are never knowing the life that GOD did intend for them to have because they choose to rush
Tommy4503 11 months ago
@Brucev7 and live a lie.... You will never shame me because I'm been me and will never live a lie I'm who Yehoshua created me to be and understand and no my purpose in life.... I will never give up who I am to please you are anyone else.,! The only way I would give up my partner is only if GOD say so and take the desires away. My life is my life and mine alone and when I face to face with Yehoshua / GOD we will deal with until then you need to mind you own life and stay out of mine
Tommy4503 11 months ago
@Tommy4503 Tommy, tommy, it's not about me. When you sin, you sin not against me, you sin against God. I am just a messenger. God will give anyone Hell is they choose that. Live now, party, die later(or today), as the rich man in Luke who was hoarding in his barns. He is not a Puppet Master. he has given all people, His creation, free will.
Brucev7 11 months ago
@Brucev7 Your not a messenger you just think your one..... When you come up with so line that I have not herd already and when you can throw some sound proof that me been homosexual is a sin then I'll believe you. GOD/Yehoshua never spoke on the subject and never condemn homosexuals he condemned many from his own mouth but never homosexuals. Let me make clear for you even in that mistranslated book you call the holy bible the KJV if you read between the lines you'll find the truth and what Paul
Tommy4503 11 months ago
@Tommy4503 what you really mean is you do not want to hear God, nor His message of freeing you from a life enslaved to sin. as long as you will tune God out, do not realize what your life is missing, you will never want the truth. You know very well Homosexuality is on the minimal, Biologically incorrect and that it does not fir into society. Not even counting the medical issues, lack of stablility in relationships, higher drug abuse, higher suicide rate, lack of following God's commands.
Brucev7 11 months ago
@Brucev7 Luke and the others were truly talking about and even then you need to research ancient man to really, Truly understand 2 refer to rape (Genesis 19:5, Judges 19:22)
5 refer to cult prostitution (Deuteronomy 23:17-18, 1 Kings 14:23-24, 15:12-13, 22:46, 2 Kings 23:6-8)
1 refers to prostitution and pederasty (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
4 are nonspecific (Leviticus 18:21-22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26-27, 1 Timothy 1:8-10)
Your Just another Christian Lost in translation man
Tommy4503 11 months ago
@Brucev7 4 are nonspecific (Leviticus 18:21-22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26-27, 1 Timothy 1:8-10) and Leviticus law in the KING JAMES is a LIE Original Hebrew Text reads: Two men shell not engage in sexual activities in a women bed it is ritually unclean and the reason I included these four verses is because they are all the same nothing deferent just re-worded. I don't need to go back a forth with you becuase what you are say is only 5% truth a have no truth whatsoever!!!
Tommy4503 11 months ago
@Tommy4503 a sexual sin is a sexual sin. All throughout the Bible No marriage except for a man and a woman. You can deny God's Word, very unwise.
Brucev7 11 months ago
@Brucev7 If your going to come for me do your research other then let me be leave me a lone you live you life and I will live mine....
Tommy4503 11 months ago
@Tommy4503 Bye. I will pray for you. Time is short.
Brucev7 11 months ago
@Brucev7 Matthew 19:10-12 (Words of Jesus in red)
10 His disciples said to him, "If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry." 11But he said to them, "Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can."
Tommy4503 11 months ago
@Tommy4503 Yes, in service to the kingdom, it is better, less likely to seek carnal things if single. Are you going to? I am.
Brucev7 11 months ago
@Brucev7 I feel so sorry for you but then I don't because the truth is out there you just need to seek the truth for yourself and stop believing those tales you herd over the years and the lies or misinterpretation the KJV has input in what should be a holy book and remember KING JAMES was a HOMOSEXUAL himself.... LIE & DECEPTION
Tommy4503 11 months ago
@Tommy4503 LOL. Oh don't feel sorry for moi, I have received the free gift. And even if James was, which I never have heard a valid Historian state that, so what?
Brucev7 11 months ago
@Brucev7 Look you idiot the roman Catholic Church Got you assholes mind twisted. 1. Male & Female produce other lives =babies that what nature intended with the two engage in sexual active. Regardless of anyone sexual perf. most of ever one can be fruitful but not ever one should and can't., do you not understand the the problems we would have if ever one was fruitful. Live by Jesus example and not by the world example GOD came to execute his mission without living any "fruits" behind.
Tommy4503 11 months ago
@Tommy4503 I'm sure you've had are may still have your issues that you will have to take up with GOD someday that's what you need to worried about and not mine. My sins will be addressed with the most high I have to answer to no man including you so you can stop with your bible counter attacks because I know the bible like the back of my hand there is nothing you can tell me that I don't know or understand. Your KJV bible is full of lie's and misinterpretations even the name JESUS is a lie.
Tommy4503 11 months ago
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@Tommy4503 No Tommy, a follower of Jesus Christ, the godhead, should respond in love, obedience, willingness to "want" to live a sinless life, reflecting the life of Jesus Christ while he lived on this Earth. Do not make a cruicial mistake and 'wait' to see where the chips may fall. Don't wait Tommy. God is calling you. You have much work to do. Another Massive Earthquake is coming, tsunami, Flood...How can they hear?
Brucev7 11 months ago
@Tommy4503 My sin is being removed by the Holy Spirit. A follower must be willing to be pruned. You are refusing to be made in His image, sanctified. Set apart. That's Human stubbornness.
Brucev7 11 months ago
@Tommy4503 Oh also, it does hurt. But a Diamond does not remain a piece of coal without a lot of pressure.
Brucev7 11 months ago
@Tommy4503 Tom, tom, catch your breath. I am not RC. And watch it with your choice of language. You are just demonstrating your agenda is defending your sin choices. Exactly, what I have trying to tell you! Following God's plan for Marriage, between a man and a woman, then a family.
Brucev7 11 months ago
@Brucev7 Bruce the only reason why gay men and women even want to get married is to enjoy the benefits of a committed couple. I don't know too many men that exited about marriage in the first place. And your talking about marriage like men and women really up hold marriage high. 1. Your killing each other 2. Marrying for money. 3 Marrying just because. 4. devoicing left and right straight couple have some many fucking issues dude I really don't won't to hear what you got to say anymore
Tommy4503 11 months ago
@Tommy4503 But you do realize, the marriage your describing is a 'Human' designed marriage. Outside of God's provision. Of the flesh. The marriage of and by God is a trinity with God, if you picture a triangle, at the top.
loved being married. God did a lot of work on me in marriage. Probably my wife as well. I didn't know that till later. Well, Tom, if you keep your mind and heart closed to God, eternal life spent with Him, I think that is what I was trying to tell you before.
Brucev7 11 months ago
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Tommy4503 1 year ago
This man is somewhat educated but is laking a lot of knowledge and have not conducted any research, The only reason why he come to the conclusion that Jesus / GOD condemned homosexuality is because he's reading the newer translation of the Hebrew text thats been translated inaccurately. Leviticus law in the original Hebrew text read: Two men must not engage in sexual activity in a women bed it is ritually unclean.. He's clearly not educated in the area he speak on
Tommy4503 1 year ago
@Tommy4503 Not the issue. Sexual impurity is just that.
Brucev7 11 months ago
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Tommy4503 11 months ago
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Tommy4503 1 year ago
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Tommy4503 1 year ago
How about Romans 1 the entire chapter. Jesus turns them over to a debased mind
harleycraig1 1 year ago
Jesus has no opinion on homosexuality, because he is an invention of the Roman Catholic Church. How can you people still believe in the lies of the sin factory, the same one that altered the scriptures, and obliterated the name Yeshua like the Pharaohs of old.
stoodOnAnArk 1 year ago
@stoodOnAnArk, How can you even say that when there wasn't even a single one bishop of Rome until the second century and we have writings of Paul discussing Jesus in 1 Corinthians 15:3 that date back to within 4 to 7 years after Jesus' death?.
How can you say the New Testament was altered when we have 5,700 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament dating closer to the original than any other work in classical history as well as over one million quotations of the NT from the patristic fathers?
52blades 1 year ago
@52blades The Catholic cult claims in pride to exist back as far as the 12 Apostles. You know the ones that betrayed and murdered Christ. We didn't know him, we wasn't with him, and one delivered him up. Who killed Christ? They thought they killed God, only the messenger. We shall unremmber his name, let our Jesus sit on his face. This is usually where Christians have a hissy fit and go mental, are you still with me?
stoodOnAnArk 1 year ago
@stoodOnAnArk,
1) Romanism hadn’t developed during the authorship of the New Testament and wouldn't do so until 313 A.D. when it would have been impossible to alter the scriptures.
2) Your claim about the "altering of scriptures” is pure speculation and refuted by textual criticism.
I won’t pursue you because I don’t care to entertain you.
52blades 1 year ago
@52blades The oldest of all Greek manuscripts does not contain the precursor for the lie of the Jesus name. Even Paul refutes this name as a pale horse substitute of the genuine Christ's Jewish name. I find it interesting that you completely refute the last reply. Is it truth? Did I lie?
stoodOnAnArk 1 year ago
@stoodOnAnArk, Iesous is the only way to transliterate Yeshua into Greek, that is why the Gospel writers use it. There is no other possible translation. There is no yod or shin in Greek and an “S” must be added to the end for grammatical reasons. The pronunciation of Iesous with a J arose because it was transliterated into German. It’s not like it’s a secret being foisted on the masses.
52blades 1 year ago
@52blades Codex Siniticus the oldest complete Greek manuscript of the New Testament does NOT, I repeat NOT, contain the word "iesous" this mistranslation came later.. "IYXT" Revelation 1:1 Codex Siniticus, is closest to Yahu. Yahuahshua (English) the correct name revealed to the Yahudi, Yeshua in Aramaic. His Creator Yahuah of hosts. Christians killed the messenger not the creator, Christ did not speak to himself, you know? Nor would he approve of worshiping dead men of crosses.
stoodOnAnArk 1 year ago
@stoodOnAnArk The Hebrew text thats been translated inaccurately Leviticus. Law in the original Hebrew text read: Two men must not engage in sexual activity in a women bed it is ritually unclean.. He's clearly not educated in the area he speak on. You need to do your research the KJV has been mistranslated go get educated
Tommy4503 1 year ago
Man how can a person talk so much about something so simple, Jesus always condemn something that is bad for one self or/& others. It doesn't take much thought to see that homosexuality is bad for oneself & others. But I want you to tell me if eating dog poop is condemned by Christ? LOL If I did a 18 min. diatribe on dog poop eating, one would think I was loco, just getting high off from my intellectualism, but I don't need a book to tell me what's right or wrong, even as imperfect as I am.
johnbevington 1 year ago
(king James Version)(John)(Jn-13-23)(Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.)
sparkiersuperjet 1 year ago
@sparkiersuperjet Is that your evidence for homosexuality? So now if you love someone, and console them in some way, or let them rest their head on you (shoulder or chest or whatever), that is deemed homosexual? No, it is not. Definition of homosexuality; "a sexual attraction to (or sexual relations with) persons of the same sex". Also note, there are different types of love too, in case you didn't know. I'm sure when you were hugging your mom or dad, you didn't want to make love to him/her...
Kyousuke687 1 year ago
GAY PEOPLE ARE AWESOME!!!!!!! and no he didn't condemn homosexuality..he never even mentions it..but he does mention love!
matt111able22 2 years ago
this guy is so annoying, he can't seem to say anything without adding a lot of blabber in between. how did he get this job without basic communication skills?
on the homosexuality thing, he's just another homophobe taking the bible out of context for to persecute homosexuals.
ask him if he thinks slavery is OK, the OT is quite supportive of slavery, poygamy too. it's funny how you bring that up and they say those laws aren't valid anymore, but somehow the anti-gay ones still are. hypocrites!
jwallbanger 2 years ago
No, he doesn't take the Bible out of context. It's clear. Homosexuality is an abomination to God. And why would he think slavery is ok? Christianity got rid of slavery in the US. If you want to talk about slavery, go to Islam. They still practice it.
FlashGordon288 2 years ago
wow, you sure don't know shit about the bible then, because the same parts that call homosexuality an abomination also say it's ok to take slaves from neighboring countries and sell your daughters into slavery too. it also says farmers who grow two kinds of crops should be stoned to death, and animals must be sacrificed to god on special occasions. that was my point, if you believe those passages about homosexuality you must believe all the others too, if you cherry pick them you're a hypocrite.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
actually the bible does not say that its okay. what it says is that since that was already practiced by society that christians have a responsibility to treat any slaves they own well and decently
HaxxyHagberg 2 years ago
First you say that homophobes take the Bible out of context wrt to homosexuality. Then you admit that the Bible calls homosexuality an abomination. Who's the hypocrite? It's obvious to me that you don't know your Bible AND you don't know God.
Homosexuality is a sin, plain and simple. You either commit it willingly, or you abhor and hate it because it's against the way God created us and against the way He wants us to live.
FlashGordon288 2 years ago
Holy crap how many times to I have to explain it before you ppl can understand my point? The bible DOES say homosexuality is an abomination in the OT, that same book of the bible says that you can't wear blended fabrics, or touch a menstruating woman, or trim your sideburns. it says you can kill your children, or sell them into slavery. THE POINT is that you cannot accept the homosexuality law and reject the others, that is hypocritical, understand yet?
or do I need to say it in baby talk?
jwallbanger 2 years ago
The point is, the title of his video is "Did Jesus condemn homosexuality". His answer was yes. You criticized him for being a homophobe and said he was taking the Bible out of context. My response was he was not taking the Bible out of context. Now you agree that the Bible does say that homosexuality is an abomination. You are the hypocrite.
By bringing in other Levitical laws, you seek to create a strawman argument to discredit what he says about homosexuality. You are a bad little monkey.
FlashGordon288 2 years ago
it's funny, you can lead the fundamentalist to logic and reason but you can't make him understand.
i don't think you understand what "taking out of context" means. the context of leviticus is old hebrew laws that jesus supposedly freed us from. so for him to quote lev 25:44 as still applicable, but dismiss the others, is hypocritical. that's logic 101, and if you can't understand that then there's no hope for you.
define the terms however you want to fit your warped view of god. the end, bye.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
i think i just figured this out! i was just sitting here thinking about this idea you're repeating and realized that you definitely do not understand the term "taking out of context." you think it means something akin to "putting it in your own words." let me define it for you. taking out of context is where a passage is removed, word for word if you want, from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning. look it up, because you obviously don't understand the term.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
ha! one more thing. it's obvious you didn't watch the video! because he never ever says the answer to "Did Jesus condemn homosexuality" is yes. Now it's really obvious you haven't read your Jesus, because Jesus never, ever condemns homosexuality! Ever! Get out a red letter bible and try to find one single place he ever even brings up the subject. Jesus does NOT! Man you really are just batting out of your league, I'm not wasting any more time on you. Educate yourself, then open your mouth!
jwallbanger 2 years ago
Yes you're right. He did not directly condemn it. Like the Greg says however, this does not necessarily mean he supports it either although he did not condemn it. He did however emphasize greatly the completion that happens through the marriage of a man and a women. He says "they become one flesh." So did he condemn it, no. Did he teach for it, no.
swimmer1293 2 years ago
It's obvious to me YOU don't know YOUR bible. Get out leviticus, open to the 25th book and read that list of "God's Laws," by the time you get to the homosexuality rule you will have read about 2 dozen of "God's Laws" that you have been breaking all your life. Somehow it's OK for you hypocrites to ignore the animal sacrifice, slavery and menstruation laws but then still condemn homosexuality, when they come from the same list of rules. THEN go get a dictionary and look up the word HYPOCRITE.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
Ah, but we're talking about homosexuality. Stay on topic.
FlashGordon288 2 years ago
you are just trying to confuse the issue now, i'm not going to say it again. it's really obvious to anyone with basic reasoning skills what my point is by bringing those things up. lev 25:44 is part of that list of rules, you choose to call that one valid and ignore the rest, hypocritical, the end. you have no credible argument so now you're trying to lead the discussion in circles. you are determined to believe something that makes no sense, so believe it.
twist reality to fit your bigotry. bye
jwallbanger 2 years ago
i didn't admit anything, i never denied the bible says that. you just don't understand the term "taking out of context." HA! you are busted little ignoramus! that is just so damn funny! but at least now i understand what you're trying to say! you need a little more study before you try to debate with the big boys. start by reading books, and looking up terms you don't understand, like taking out of context!
LMAO
jwallbanger 2 years ago
my final note:
Today christians do not practice the old jewish laws set out in Leviticus. Why? Because they believe that Jesus freed us from those laws, and now we "live in grace." So for any christian to quote old jewish laws in an argument against homosexuality is simply hypocritical, because if they are not practicing those laws and don't believe they are sinning because of it, how can they say it's a sin for others?
It's just a hypocritical way for the bigots to justify their predjudices.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
Really. That must mean that murder is now OK, stealing is OK, adultery is just fine, respecting your mother and father is no longer necessary just to name a few. Your interpretation of scripture needs a lot of work. In addition, both the old and the new testaments condemn homosexuality as wrong. Take a look at Romans.
sirluce 2 years ago
Really. That must mean morality doesn't exist outside the bible, that no other religion or philosophy ever in the history of man condemned murder, stealing, etc. Your logic needs some work, because my point was not that nothing in the bible is valid, my point was that the bible is not an infallible document, take from it what's worth taking, take the rest with a grain of salt (or in some cases, a pile.)
I take the words of Jesus as God's word, everything else is questionable, including Paul.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
I do find it interesting that you are happy to use the convenient parts of scripture that you like serious and then just chuck the rest and say it must not be God's Word because I disagree with what it says. Homosexuality is one of the consistent wrongs presented in scripture, both OT and NT. You can't name for me one passage in the entire bible that calls homosexuality a good thing, yet I can name dozens of passages that call it a bad thing. Case closed.
sirluce 2 years ago
i didn't say "chuck the rest," stop putting words in my mouth. i said "take with a grain of salt." do you know what that means? it does not mean chucking anything. like the part that says it's ok to kill your kid if they insult you, am i to take that literally? i don't and i doubt you do either. i put it in the context of the time, same with the anti-gay stuff. same with the shellfish and mestruation laws, and the polygamy and animal sacrifice. so do you, you're just a bigot abusing the bible.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
"take it with a grain of salt" in practice means "ignore the parts I don't like." Sounds like chucking it to me. Second, all these passages have to be studied in context if we are going to understand their meaning. The "kill your kid" was never recorded to have been done ever and if someone was to try to do it they had to take their kid to court first in order to justify it which was a vast improvement over the commonly accepted "honor killing" ways of their neighbors.
sirluce 2 years ago
No, it absolutely does not mean that. Look it up, you really don't know what that experession means? It means that it should not be blindly accepted and believed without any doubt or reservation. If you are past the junior college stage you should be looking up definitions, not making them up.
You are putting that "kill your kid" scripture in the context of the times right there, so you don't take it literally as God's word then?
You take it with a "grain of salt?"
jwallbanger 2 years ago
Once again, you're avoiding the main point. Ignoring the parts of scripture you don't like just because you don't like them is a pretty lame excuse. If the bible consistently has one message and one message alone in regards to an issue, then you have to be honest enough with the text to say that it has a clear message on that issue. Everywhere it is mentioned in scripture, homosexuality is condemned. Therefore, the obvious teaching of scripture is that homosexuality is wrong.
sirluce 2 years ago
Aren't you doing the same thing every time you eat shellfish? The bible consistently forbids eating it. It even calls shellfish an ABOMINATION, in two places! It has a clear message on the issue of shellfish, they are an ABOMINATION, so every time you eat shrimp or lobster you have committed an abominable sin against God, right? Everywhere it is mentioned in scripture, eating shellfish is condemned. Therefore the obvious teaching of scripture is that eating shellfish is wrong.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
Like I said, eating kosher was an act of obedience. There was nothing wrong with eating shellfish except that God called the Israelites not to eat them. Besides, God specifically calls off the ban to Peter in Acts, so you have no argument.
sirluce 2 years ago
so abomination when referring to homosexuality means evil, but only means obedience in reference to shellfish? You create your own definitions to fit your hateful views, so you have no argument. And Acts was not written by God. Just because something is in the bible does not make it the word of God. That's the thing we will never, ever agree on. And thankfully there are many other church going christians who use their brain instead of blindly believing anything written in the bible.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
So in other words, your ultimate guide to morality is your heart. If something doesn't agree with your PERFECT sense of right and wrong, something must be wrong with it, not your heart. Because your heart couldn't possibly believe something that is a lie. Your heart couldn't possibly lead you astray. You don't consider it at least a little arrogant to believe that your heart is the ultimate guide to right and wrong?
sirluce 2 years ago
i didn't mean that at all, the heart is not a good guide to morality, neither is reason, or the conscience, NEITHER IS THE BIBLE. Why? Because back when the church was in charge, there were witch burnings and crusades and spanish inquisitions and all sorts of violent and horriblly IMMORAL things done in the name of Christianity, in the name of GOD. The majority determines morality on a pragmatic level, as in, who goes to prison and why. On a spiritual level only God can be the judge.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
You never judge a religion by its adherants, but by its teaching. Which is why I believe homosexuality to be wrong. Because God's word teaches it. If God says it is wrong, it is.
sirluce 2 years ago
Again that's where we'll never agree, what you call God's word I call words inspired by God. There is no proof that God ever intended the bible to be taken literally as his word, and there never will be. Fundamentalism is damaging to christianity, it deters people from Jesus gospel.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
Ridiculous. Books of law are not meant to be taken subjectively (The Torah). Books of history are not meant to be taken subjectively (Joshua-Esther). Certainly, the books of poetry and prophecy have an element of figurative language just as all books in those genres were meant to be taken somewhat figuratively. I take the books of the bible as they were meant to be taken. And if you do enough study of those books, you can pretty well figure it out.
sirluce 2 years ago
@sirluce Also because homosexuality is against God's nature.
americanzero 2 years ago
You obviously didn't get my point about the difference between laws of obedience and pointing out evil acts. Evil is evil. The OT and NT call homosexuality an abomination. That's about as evil as you can get. That doesn't change over time. Shellfish, menstruation laws and animal sacrifice are all obedience factors, not evil acts. And polygamy was never condoned by God in scripture. That was a cultural thing, but it was never propped up by God as good.
sirluce 2 years ago
Again, you're making up your own definitions! Abomination does not mean evil in ANY book.
Seriously show me a dictionary that defines "abomination" as evil! It means "a vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, habit, etc." So if you admit those are obedience factors, why don't you have to obey now? Aren't you in violation of God's law?
jwallbanger 2 years ago
The bible uses the term "abomination" only about things it considers the worst of the worst, ie evil. If you can't be honest with the text, that's not my problem. And there are some things that are considered more than just being disobedient in scripture. They are evil in all times, places and cultures. One is murder. Another is adultery. And another is homosexuality. All 3 of them are condemned as wrong throughout scripture, OT and NT. Once again, case closed.
sirluce 2 years ago
No, you show me where the biblical definition of abomination is different from the dictionary definition. You talketh out thy ass. Stealing and murder are imprisonable and capital offenses respectively, but homosexuality is neither, why? Because homosexuality does not hurt anyone.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
Since the bible was written in Hebrew and Greek before English came into existence, it seems to me you are the one taking liberties. Murder, adultery and homosexuality all had the death penalty in the OT because God wanted to demonstrate how serious all of these sins were. And if you think cutting off 20 years of your life, which is the typical amount of years less a homosexual has on this planet, is not hurting anyone, you aren't as "compassionate" as I thought you were.
sirluce 2 years ago
there were lots of offenses that carried the death penalty in the OT, including insulting your parents, blasphemy, prostitution and my personal favorite...sleeping with your mother in law. do we kill people for these things today? no. why? because this is the age of logic and reason, not superstition and tyranny.
your determination to keep that kind of tyranny alive is what turns people off from the gospel as a whole. they see it as a violent and ugly religion because of people like you.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
"So for any christian to quote old jewish laws in an argument against homosexuality is simply hypocritical, because if they are not practicing those laws and don't believe they are sinning because of it, how can they say it's a sin for others?"
This was the quote I was addressing and I showed you how ridiculous it is. Christians use the 10 Commandments all the time specifically because they are relevant for today.
sirluce 2 years ago
but how can you say what's relevant and what's not? animal sacrifice, shellfish, trimming your sideburns, if those are truly god's laws who are you to decide they are obsolete? how is it so hard to get that it's hypocritical to accept lev 20-13 as literal and blow off the others? it's willful delusion, you are cherry picking that law to support your predjudice. case closed. i'm not going to repeat it again, if you can't understand that point you are very unintelligent or willfully delusional.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
I assume we're both past the junior high stage, so why don't you stop with the personal attacks and debate like a man. We're both intelligent and we're both seeking the truth, so why don't you at least attempt to stick to logic and stop with the ad hominem attacks. Otherwise, it shows the weakness of your arguments that you need to resort to errors in logic such as ad hominem attacks in order to "prove" your point.
sirluce 2 years ago
Sorry. That's like the pot calling the kettle black. I'm the one who takes seriously the entirety of scripture and deals with every passage that talks about homosexuality at face value. Since homosexuality is condemned throughout the entirety of scripture every time it is mentioned, and there is not one passage from scripture that says it is a good thing, logically you don't have a case from a scriptural standpoint. Unless you can name chapter and verse. Good luck.
sirluce 2 years ago
It doesn't say baseball is a good thing either, so it that a basis for condemning baseball? Jesus never condemned homosexuality. It was condemned by ignorant people falsely claiming to speak for God, including Paul. Jesus is my lord and savior, not Paul or anyone else involved in writing the bible. Fundamentalism is a fairly recent phenomenon, even the people that assembled the bible didn't expect it to be taken as God's literal word.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
The bible doesn't condemn baseball as wrong in the OT or the NT as far as I know, does it? Then it doesn't say one way or another. That is not the case with homosexuality. The bible says it is wrong every time it is mentioned. And Paul was a tremendous amount more knowledgeable about what Jesus said and did then you or I considering he walked and talked with those who knew him. And the condemnation of homosexuality has been universal in the church up until 50 years ago.
sirluce 2 years ago
Maybe he did, but he wasn't universally accepted by them as an apostle, he gave himself that title, based on a vision he had that was different every time he told about it, with witnesses he could not name. He had himself put on house arrest and then held himself up as a martyr imprisoned by the romans for his beliefs. He was also a pagan, all our "christian" holidays are renamed pagan holidays because of his paganized version of christianity. He was a carpetbagger of the Jesus movement.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
Yikes. You've been reading 1 too many sci-fi novels. Not sure where you got this crap, but it's about time you read the truth in the book of Acts. To say that you know better what Paul was like than the 100s of scholars who chose to put his letters into the canon of scripture 1500 years before you were born is a little presumptuous.
sirluce 2 years ago
you didn't refute anything i said directly, so i guess you have no rebuttal. paul was a charlatan, and i'm not even close to the only person that thinks so. use the power of google to find the vast amount of qualified criticism of paul out there. there were political reasons to include his letters, and just because he was backed by some scholars doesn't make him above criticism. paul hijacked the jesus movement, and there is a mountain of evidence out there if you only are willing to look at it.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
I'm happy to look at evidence, but I already know what the overwhelming majority of scholarship throughout the history of the Christian church believes about Paul, and so I know your scholars are in the vast minority ie the fringe. To say that Paul hijacked Christianity is simply delusional. Are you a 9/11 truther as well?
sirluce 2 years ago
yes i am, are you a 9/11 doofer? you believe buildings can collapse perfectly at near freefall speed into dust from being hit by planes? now that's real faith. and it confirms that you are not a critical thinker. you respect the majority view simply because it's the majority view. you aren't interested in the truth, the official propaganda suits you fine. oh, and sorry if you feel insulted by this, but you're really boring too. and unfortunately i am allergic to boredom so i'm moving on.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
I believe that the engineers from Popular Mechanics know a heck of a lot more about when buildings collapse than you or I do. And it seems that conspiracies are your thing since you hold to so many of them. Hopefully eventually you will begin to become a little more selective in which websites to believe. It would make you a little more credible.
sirluce 2 years ago
the architects and engineers for 9/11 truth are no less qualified. the pilots for 9/11 truth are also experts, but unlike the pop mechanics guys, they are not a hearst publication, a major media conglomerate with ulterior motives. but anyway this is a different subject, if you want to go there, fine, but you're going to get floored because i'm much more studied on the subject.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
You're right. I don't study cooky conspiracy theories very often. I'm sure you are more studied on it than I do. I simply don't like to spend my precious time on things I know are inherently ridiculous. If you believe it, that's your problem, not mine.
sirluce 2 years ago
how do you know they are inherently ridiculous if you don't study them? you can't possibly know the truth about something you've chosen to remain ignorant about. but that's what makes horrible things like 9/11 possible, the cocksure ignorance of people who blindly trust the government and the corporate media. and the 9/11 truth movement is no longer fringe either, the number of people who believe the government had something to do with it is now over 30%, and that's CNN's numbers.
jwallbanger 2 years ago 2
@jwallbanger That's frightening. Have you seen the DVD "The Third Jihad"? It is about a moderate Muslim who has dedicated his life to exposing radical Islam.
BBBradH 1 year ago
God does not change what is right or wrong. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. What he does change is how he relates to his people. Working on the Sabbath was a way to show obedience to God. So God eventually changed it. Eating kosher was also a way to show obedience to God. So he changed it. Murder, stealing, homosexuality, envy are always wrong because they are called evil in scripture. Evil acts are always wrong in scripture no matter what time period you are in.
sirluce 2 years ago
Oh BS. You can't lump homosexuality in with murder and stealing. Homosexuality hurts no one. And why is it that if you're so pro 10 commandments you aren't out protesting and debating polytheism and taking the lord's name in vain? Why do you single out homosexuality to make an issue out of? It's the same as when southern christians used the bible to justify their racism. you are not using it to grow in grace as a child of God, you are abusing it to justify your predjudices, "case closed."
jwallbanger 2 years ago
I can lump it in with murder and stealing because both the OT and NT call it an abomination. It is evil according to scripture, just the same as murder and stealing. And by the way, I do debate polytheism and taking the lord's name in vain as wrong. So I am consistent. And anyone can make the bible say anything if they don't take scripture in context. Hitler could take a few verses from scripture and try to justify his cause. Doesn't make it a valid interpretation of scripture.
sirluce 2 years ago
Again, look up "abomination." Anyone can call a BS interpretation of scripture valid, including YOU.
And I don't care if I convince you or anyone, I just think it's sad that so many see Christianity as narrow and hateful because of people like you.
They throw out Jesus beautiful message of salvation because of all the nasty, gutterball bigotry in my religion. We are all sinners, and Jesus told us to fix our own sin before pointing out other people's, and not to judge other people's souls either.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
Since you like Jesus' words so much, let me share a quote:
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
So Jesus called the way of salvation narrow, not I. And I find it interesting that because I defend the biblical position that I'm called hateful, nasty and a bigot. Is that loving? Wow. And aren't you judging me as well?
sirluce 2 years ago
Narrow by a different definition, are you sure you went to college? The way I used it it meant small minded.
I believe that quote, I believe everything Jesus said as the infallible word of God. I do not believe homosexuals are excluded from finding the narrow gate because of their sexuality.
Jesus is clear that we are to focus on our own sins, not other people's. You are judging people's sins, and I am simply pointing out that your motive is prejudice, not religious righteousness.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
First of all, you have no idea what my motive is, so don't even try. Only God knows the thoughts and intents of our hearts. I have just as pure motives as you do. Secondly, I never said people who commit homosexual acts are excluded from heaven, merely stating that the bible very clearly condemns homosexuality as sin. Thirdly, you are judging my motives as wrong in this very post, aren't you? Fourthly, Jesus judged the Pharisees and his disciples all the time.
sirluce 2 years ago
reason dictates that the only possible motive for cherry picking one sin out of a long list, and disregarding the rest, is that you have some kind of personal bias regarding that one sin. no amount of pseudo-intellectual sophistry can prove otherwise, it is simply hypocritical and bigoted behavior. the end.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
For someone who says I shouldn't judge, you sure do an awful lot of judging. I'm hypocritical and bigoted because I dare to take the bible seriously and merely uphold what it says. I knew you couldn't hold off on the ad hominem attacks. "pseudo-intellectual?" The personal attacks keep coming and coming and coming...
sirluce 2 years ago
i do not judge your soul. i'm sorry you have such trouble understanding an obvious point.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
I haven't judged anyone else's soul as well. I just called homosexuality wrong.
sirluce 2 years ago
you called it evil. you called it a sin. you called it condemned by god. that is judging a person's soul.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
Sorry. Never once did I judge someone's soul. I judged their actions. Through this entire discussion, I have referred to homosexuality as a sin, not condemning homosexuals. Big difference and one you need to figure out. Because I judge someone's actions has nothing to do with whether I judge someone's soul. 2 distinct things. Especially if I have god backing me up throughout scripture as a source. God has a lot better idea of what is right and wrong than you do. Or me for that matter.
sirluce 2 years ago
Was Jesus following his own advice? Or are we to understand his saying differently? Of course our central concern should be our own sinfulness. But to say that we don't call sin sin is a ridiculous statement. If we don't judge other people, then we really shouldn't judge murderers. Or stealers. Or people who kill 6 million Jews. Or people who guide planes into buildings. After all, we need to be concerned with our own sin, right?
sirluce 2 years ago
there is a big difference between morality and sin, just like there's a big difference between morality and law. sometimes the are congruent, sometimes not. you are either misunderstanding what i said or intentionally twisting my meaning.
judging the morality of another's actions is different than judging another person's soul.
Man can judge man's actions, but only God is qualified to judge a soul. or do you think matt 7-5 is not spiritual in meaning?
jwallbanger 2 years ago
Who ever judges someones soul in this entire conversation? Certainly not I. I said homosexuality was a sin according to scripture. That's all I've been defending this entire time. How is that judging someone's soul? Please tell me?
sirluce 2 years ago
you never said "according to scripture" you've been saying it's sin according to god's word. ok i'm done because this is argument is skipping like a broken record. if you want to switch to 9/11 fine, but the last thing i'll say is that you need to start looking up word's you don't understand. so far you've misused "take with a grain of salt, " "abomination," "narrow" and "ad hominem attack." seriously, get a dictionary. use it.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
Thanks for the patronization, but I know exactly what each of them mean not only as dictionary definitions but in practical terms where the rubber meets the road. Apparently, you haven't developed that skill yet. Hope you do in the near future.
sirluce 2 years ago
Well one good patronization deserves another. You are full of BS though with your practical rubber spiel. I say prove it. Demonstrate where I used an ad hominem argument. You don't understand the term. Show me where abomination is defined as evil, show me where "take with a grain of salt" is defined as throwing out what you don't like.
You're completely full of it.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
yep, that's exactly what i thought.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
oh and another thing, there may have been some christians in the abolitionist movement, but there were a lot more in the south that used those old testament slavery laws to defend slavery. you can't say christianity got rid of slavery without mentioning the vast christian movement that defended slavery as well, or again, you're a HYPOCRITE.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
that is somewhat true. both sides of the civil war and the abolitionist movement believed that god was on their side
HaxxyHagberg 2 years ago
LOL! Did you even bother to listen to what he was actually saying? Of course not. That might require actual thought.
What ignorance you're spouting off here. When's the first, last or any time you actually read the entire bible? Or even one book of it? LOL!
Yesica1993 2 years ago
you don't believe those rules are there? then you're the one who hasn't read the bible. LOL! LOL! LOL! see I can do it too LOL! LOL!
jwallbanger 2 years ago
What an ignorant fool you are. Did you bother to watch the video all the way through? Do you know the difference between the Old Testament and the New? Do you know what the OT Law was about - who it was given to and for what purpose?
I don't know why I even waste my time with people like you. You have no interest in real discussion and you spout off nonsense when you don't even know what you're talking about. Goodbye.
Yesica1993 2 years ago
And you just made my entire point, suggesting you didn't bother to even try to understand my post. My point is that even though Christians believe that Jesus freed us from the old laws set out in Exodus and Leviticus, they still quote Lev. 20-13 as God's infallible rule against homosexuality. They cherry pick that rule out of all the others considered no longer valid and say it still applies. You responded with immature insults and I responded with rational, evidence based civil discussion.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
Oh and as a Christian you should know better than to call me a fool, because now, according to Matthew 5:22, you are going to hell for calling me that.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
Do you know what a fake, self-righteous, hypocritical person is?
uraine7626 2 years ago
Jesus was undoubtedly a gay man so 'why' would anyone think he condemned homosexuality?
tracer740 2 years ago
when you use words like undoubtedly, this would seem to suggest that the vast majority of New Testament scholars hold to the position which you just stated. The problem with that statement is that the vast morjority of New Testament scholars do not hold to that position. Your comment shows a lack of understanding for honest history.
DRod3186 2 years ago
And you have evidence of this how? What stupidity.
Yesica1993 2 years ago
L 25-44 " 'Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
jwallbanger 2 years ago
If jesus loves everyone then why would he be so judgemental of everyone?
mikeywikeybikey 2 years ago
Jesus was judgmental of all those who didn't love God in their hearts and seek to obey Him.
FlashGordon288 2 years ago 2
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HaxxyHagberg 2 years ago
Jesus Can judge. But those without sin can only cast the first stone.
uraine7626 2 years ago
Yeah, Jesus has credibility - among Christians. The way Koukl presents it, you'd think Jews, Hindus, atheists, etc. all use Jesus as an authority figure when they argue amongst themselves.
Non-Christians cite Jesus (the words attributed to him by the whoever wrote the gospels, anyway) to Christians as a way of shutting them up.
army103 2 years ago
Word.
>"If there is anything of value in the Judeo-Christian death cult it is the seductive message of universal love. "Judge not lest ye be judged," "do unto others...," "love thy neighbor..." and "this above all: love one another" pretty much sum it up, & come from traditions thousands of years older than Judaism. The rest of the Bible is political manipulation and threats meant to strike fear in the hearts of primitive tribal nomads. This doubletalking propagandist appeals to ignorance."
bc9021010001 3 years ago
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There is no discussion with Judeo-Christian death cult inmates. They are brainwashed from birth to believe that their bigoted hatred is love. Multimillionaire professional like the cynical asshole in this video fan the flames.
tonzimala 3 years ago
Your statement is chock full of irony.
girzwald3 3 years ago
do u have anything to say in response to what he actually said, or just insults.
veritaslogos 3 years ago
Rhetoric like this is completely useless in the public square. You fan the flames just as much with nonsense like this.
obietom 3 years ago
Refute his rhetoric point by point if indeed it is nonsense. I don't think you can. It's one thing to say someone has spoken nonsense it's another to demonstrate it.
DRod3186 2 years ago 2
Trust me, if there were such a thing as the God of the Hebrews as described in that hodgepodge called "The Bible" he would have better things to do than worry about where a bunch of closet case hillbillies stick their little wee-wees.
All you Judeo-Christian-Muslim repressed homosexuals should just learn to enjoy having sex with each other and stop torturing the rest of the world. Leave us in peace, you crazy motherfuckers, before you blow up the planet.
funboy7979 3 years ago 19
all homosexuals can do is emote
veritaslogos 3 years ago
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@funboy7979 LOL It will be the unbelievers that blow-up, destroy anything. Always has been. Denial.
Brucev7 11 months ago
@Brucev7 "Denial" is the latest pop psychology term hijacked by Bible thumpers in their effort to disparage rational people who laugh at their god delusions. Denial more accurately describes what repressed homosexual preachers go through as they spread their irrational hate against gay people. Criminal insanity.
funboy7979 11 months ago
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@funboy7979 'Rational?' Compared to what? 'repressed homosexual preachers.' You call your statement rational? How? Defending sin is not rational. That is the same as defending, setting someone's house on fire.
Brucev7 11 months ago