F18 Versus F111

[Antifaith29]

18's arent that fast? theyre plenty fast it's just that you compared it with a aircraft renowned for its speed.

[IIproductionsII]

Now we've gotten rid of the F-111's we need to get another bomber this is stupid, a b1 wouldbe nice.

[joshae95]

the f-111 is retired (november 2010) replaced by super hornets.... cant wait for f 35's in 2017

[Antifaith29]

@joshae95 Might want to look into the 35's before getting so exited about them.

[joshae95]

@Antifaith29 ive heard... but still be good to get some new tech into our inventory

[MAF152SEB]

if australia kept the F-111 and brang in the f-18 australia would be a force to reckon with as the legendary F-111 would have a massive effect on ground targets while the F-18 would be an escourt to protect the F-111 from fighters but the F-18's wouldn't be needed for night strikes under radar but still the F-111 is better

[hellraiser125]

@MAF152SEB we have both of them in service in australia and have had for 20 or more year (not to sure when they where put into survice but remember them flying around as a kid.

[405chevy]

f-18's are designed for in-air (Airiel) Combat, they are more agile and swift than the f-11s, they can turn, fire, flip and spin more and faster than the f111. They are also much lighter. f111's are for ground bombing - they are much faster and much more armoured than an f-18 - Just because they are bigger you may think they are louder but you would be wrong - If you sitting down, you look up and see an f-18 speeding up, blok ur ears - prepare for sonic boom XD

[VocalIntuition]

@405chevy You couldnt be more correct sir, they are also both beautiful planes :P

[txaggie100]

Shitty Music

[TheGamezshak]

f-18 is a fighter f111 is a bomber therefore u cant compare them/.

[ripper9191]

why no vs raptor ';..;'

[krashdown102]

Do we have to have one or the other? why not keep the F-111s and get some F-18s aswell or maybe F22s instead :-/

Either way, I don't think that we should be getting rid of them just yet.

[hogey74]

@krashdown102 they are irreplaceable thats true. Nothing can fly as far, as fast and carrying as much as them. It will take two super hornets plus tankers to do the same job as one. But they are getting too expensive to maintain and now the US has phased out the f14s which use the same motors it will get harder yet. Plus it would cost a bomb to bring them up to the standard of joint-networked avionics that the super hornets and all our allies aircraft are at. Sad but true.

[TheDudeFrom0Z]

@krashdown102

yer i reckon they should create a new f111 squadron and keep the f18s at amberley. then australia would have a huge airpower

[seenitdoneit]

@TheDudeFrom0Z Have you seen the F111 grave yard at Amberley, won't be able to keep them flying for too much longer even if they wanted to I think. The F111 will be sorely missed and it's kind of funny how the people of south east Queensland love the thing so much, fuel dump I guess. I am one of those people. The F18 just doesn't have the same presence. Got REAL close to one at Indy last year. You could feel the air pulse as it went ovrhead.

[TheDudeFrom0Z]

@seenitdoneit haha yep. i go to cadets at amberley and it shakes the whole squadron when one of the F18s go up.

[seenitdoneit]

@TheDudeFrom0Z I should have said that it was an F111 that flew over my head. got some wicked footage that would be good for youtube.

[TreyHWood]

Who cares if the F-111 is faster? That's all. It's a good plane but overall F/A-18 is a far better aircraft.

[chrisdef15]

@TreyHWood

Much better aricraft at what?

The F111 can carry more payload, faster and a longer distance.

[falcon2160]

I can believe it.

[piepiepie250]

the big f-111 is only faster because it has swing wings which alows it to change its wing configuration, where a the f-18 only has a strait wing

[spectre55x]

@ kalxtube... The F-111 is actually considered an "strike", deep interdiction aircraft. The FB was a bomber (usually carried nukes). We had a few aircraft on alert here at Plattsburgh that were loaded and ready to go, 24/7. We never scrambled them, but did scramble a couple of alert tankers during my time here. Once for the mission in Panama and once for Libya. Even launched one with no water injection on one engine. A Colonel told me to close the cowling and let it go. I did! No problem.

[spectre55x]

In FSX, I use the add-on panel that has the working TFR. It works pretty well, so long as you aren't going too fast at very low AGL. It's fine over flat land or rolling hills, but don't try the Rockies unless your wings are swept a couple notches forward and speed at about mach 1. I don't fly lower than 1400 AGL in that terrain. I still came close to clipping some peaks a few times. :)

[kalxtube]

one is a fighter the other is a bomber ? may as well compare a pc9 with a tanker.

[peterogr]

well fighter/bomber then

[Rbrownsword]

@peterogr , but the swept wing US F1-11 is the bomber, it could break the sound barrier at 100ft. Kept us all safe for quite a few years.

[WeedIsGood4Y0u]

@kalxtube true!

or a Formula one car with a Rally car.

maybe not as good a metaphor as urs but yeah lol

[gothekittycats]

@kalxtube to my knowledge they are both fighter/bombers

[MudRat02]

@gothekittycats The Hornet has potent fighter and bomber capability, the F-111 does not. The F-111 doesn't' have the radar required for engaging air targets but can carry obsolete sidewinder missiles (nothing else) which have a short range as you'd know, but it still can't manoeuvre into a position to use them. Even trainers can out-turn and out-fight the F-111 (the Hawk et al.). The F-111 is a "strike bomber" according to the RAAF, and it did that job well.

[mrbishi1000]

@MudRat02 Your right! The F-111 has good bomber capability. It's fast on the deck and when it drops its payload and heads up and home your not gonna catch it and its range is bigger than a Hornet which means it gets home from S.E.A. Read the stats on the first Gulf War where comparison was made between the B-117 and the F-111. It came out on top. We got the Shock Jocky's who ride high to mix with the fighters, but what have we got for the long range strikes now.

[MudRat02]

@mrbishi1000 Super Hornet with the projected next gen JDAM-ER and JSOW will have significant long range strike capability, with greater accuracy and won't have to drop down to within small arms range and won't need a fighter escort to do it. If there's one thing the Gulf War did show us, is that that concept of operations is unnecessarily risky in today's theatre as demonstrated by several Tornado losses performing similar missions. The vast majority of jets damaged there were operating low.

[spectre55x]

The only jet, other than the newest models, that was faster then the -111 was the SR-71. I worked as an engine technician on the FB-111A for almost 10 years and I know for a fact that one hit mach 2.7 during an FCF (Functional Check Flight). This was at high altitude, or course. They couldn't fly much faster than mach 1.3 at low level,

[FBK289]

@spectre55x hey that's really interesting, Australia is just retiring it's last F-111's. that's pretty fast although i didn't realise it fell to 1.3 at low altitude, still supersonic tho

[ilovewindydays]

@spectre55x

I flew the D model at Canon AFB and I have been 1.7 at 100' and 2.8 at 37000'

The F model could go supersonic in mil at low altitude and 3.0 at high altidude.

[spectre55x]

The F models were definitely faster, using the -P109 engines. While in Iceland, I heard two jets come screaming over the dorms. I could tell they were -111s. A few minutes later two F-15s that were stationed there tried catching them. The FBs had flown from England for a unannounced attack on Keflavik. The F15s couldn't scramble quickly enough to catch them. One of the FBs shelled out a turbine. They caught our guys completely off guard since they came in at about 100 feet above the water.

[VTXman196]

@spectre55x actually, the F model had P111+ engines. the G model had the P109's

furthermore, there were no FB-111 in england.  the 2 bases in england had F models (Lakenheath) and E models and EF-111 (Upper Heyford). the FB's were stationed in the states ate Pease and Platesburg and were later sent to Cannon and became the F-111G. I was a crew chief on all of the different models at one time or another.

[smudgeller]

Well, I flew the fa/18 in this vid and as the wings pull back on the one eleven, I think its an unfair advantage! The music suits as I like the song for that reason alone. The fa/18 is flat out at the time, but not level so the speedometer may make a difference. A challenge is a challenge. No matter how much fun it is.

well done pete

it still looks good!!!

cheers

Smithy

[FBK289]

@smudgeller yep i think you did a good job with this experiment, do you think the modelling was accurate?

[jonesy97]

And this music is befitting of aircraft like the F-111 how?

[tommyaust]

where ya download that f-111?

[peterogr]

aplhasim, i think its freeware now

[SuperRaptor22]

i reckon austrlia should mak a new version of the f-111 if it is so good.

[SuperRaptor22]

nahh i dont think they would. Australia allready bought the f/a-18s i think. ps: i know how to spell Australia just a typo.

[yoyoyoyoshua]

yeah but the super hornet only goes mach 1.6 and and the hornet goes mach 1.8

[SuperRaptor22]

so? f-111's were so capable at doing there job so well! they could fly for many hours with out refueling carry alot more bombs and etc... and it had swooped wings, i heard these things can travel mach 2.0+ !!!!! so if they made a more compact version or jsut modify the plane it would become such a good role for everything

[FBK289]

@SuperRaptor22 yeah you would think so aye??? i guess sometimes you pull a few aardvarks out of the hat....so to speak!

[spectre55x]

Great! ps: It's they're. LOL

[NeilsShoe]

The F-111 would be shot down or not reach as far in places a B2 Bomber could go.

[peterogr]

I have nor bothered to even look at this lately, interesting tho in the B2 discussion. 1 billion would be a cheap one I think it ranges from 1.3 to 2.2. I also thought there were only 21 of them ever delivered. Obviously an incredible piece of machiney, stealth tho, hmm it took the serbian modifying old aa only a couple of months to refine the radar to shoot down F117s. Stealth means low observability not invisible.

[peterogr]

Sometimes it does not pay to be too clever as the countermeasures to some of these technologies are often much cheaper and easier to develop. I guess one way to win a battle, scare your enemy then watch their economy collapse under the strain of building stuff they neither need or can use effectively, but that wouldnt happen anywhere would it now?

[hogey74]

@peterogr yeah a few years ago I heard that a potential issue for stealthy aircraft is mobile phone systems - that a system of modified radars can pick up mobile signals bouncing off the flat undersides of these aircraft. I guess they can be knocked out on day one of a war but I assume the principle could be used with hardened military transmitters positioned around the place.

[simonjevan]

yawn

[eastonsteve]

The F-111 went away for only one reason, politics. Some politicians wanted to build new unneeded bombers so they could keep people at home working. The B-2 bomber is the biggest waste of money in American history. Cost's 1 billion a copy and can't fly much faster than a C-130. A few 111's could lay bombs on target in Afghanistan at 1,000 mph or faster and be almost back home while a B-2 would be still out over the Atlantic Ocean.

[Brodzy123]

They have decided to not retire the f-111's until a few more years

[amsterdamacrylics]

Why did somebody give a thumbs down? Its bloody true. The RAAF will retire the F-111 in 2010

[ToiletGreece]

It's a stealth bomber. It isn't necessarily about flying extremely fast when you can do it in absolute stealth.

[sandw321]

the f/18 didnt even have full throttle on when you were passing it.

[peterogr]

you cant see afterburner effects on the multiplayer plane thats all, its fs9.

I used to work on these babies

[derro1989]

the f-111 is way better than the f-18. it would take 4 f-18s 2 carry the same amount of ordanance of just 1 f-111, and the f-18 would have to be refueled at least twice to even come close 2 the range of the f-111, as for dogfighting, the f-111 has far superior speed, and would easilly escape any likely confrontation

[sandw321]

actully your rong. f/a-18 waste alot of fuel like every plane on full throttle. but the f-111 as atleast im not exactly shore but atleast more than 20 years. the size of it is absolutley massive!!!. and yet a fighter ship could fit more f/18s on it than f-111. believe me f-18s are better. but ever since i have lived in brisbane and have gone to the city fire. there dump and burns are brilliant!

[usmcandrew16]

In a dogfight the F-18 would dominate the f-111, thats not even fair...

[peterogr]

and an F111 would out dogfight a herc, different roles, read the whole post

[usmcandrew16]

i know they have different roles- im just saying that an F-18 would dominate the F-111. and the F-22 Raptor would dominate both of them at the same time oh yeaaaah

[peterogr]

yep

[srsairbags]

a modernization/rebuild is not the answer when you are dealing with air superiority . . . 3rd gen plane may not be able to hold with the like of . . .say Su 30MKi . .

[peterogr]

an f111 flys 1000klms further than an su30 on internal fuel only, is faster and would probably arrive undetected, by the time they are in the air after it, it is too far away to be worried and will not need in flight refueling. for long range bombing it is estimated that it may take up to 4 f18s to complete the job of 1 F111. it is estimated that although the F18s would successfully fend off any fighters they would not go for the aircraft just take out the tanker, lots of floating 18s

[L1QU1DSelva]

Completely agree, the only reason why the F-111's are still flying, however not for much longer, is because there is no other aircraft that can effectively do it's job. there have been aircraft designed to do the same, but they failed. the pig is in a league of it's own, and the fact they can fly very low and very quick (comparison for their job) just shows the amount of engineering that doesn't go into aircraft these days. they are just getting too expensive to maintain. 40 year old aircraft.

[peterogr]

Air Marshal Shepherd—Regarding the figures I gave about the increase in range over the classic Hornet, I said about 30 per cent. That was substantially correct. It is a 35 per cent average increase in combat range and a 45 per cent increase in aircraft ferry range over our current Hornet models.

[peterogr]

CHAIR—Off the top of your head, can you tell us how that compares with the F111? Air Marshal Shepherd—It certainly does not match the F111. There is no aircraft in production in the world today that will match the F111. It is, however, about 75 per cent of an F111. COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA Official Committee Hansard SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE ESTIMATES (Additional Budget Estimates) WEDNESDAY, 14 FEBRUARY 2007 CANBERRA

[peterogr]

I think they estimated 150 mill per year to keep the F111s going but are actually going to spend 2.4billion on a temp (fuperhornet) untill the JSF. You will find that doc it is real interesting reading. You might be right about the cheap and nasty thing, they looked at retiring the F18s at same time as the 111, now thats funny, even funnier is, it looks like the old 18 is harder to maintain than the 111. Full glass is available for the 111 and the airframe is probably still good AFTER 2020.

[sandw321]

i more likley think that the jets are to expensive! yeh we can afford a couple but not loads! but teh big disadvantage for an f-111 is the size. f-18s are much smaller and have foladable winds. more room saved! but the f-111 have great dump and burns.

[derro1989]

the yanks tried using f-111s on carriers, i believe they were the f-111b model, too heave 2 be used on carriers, but doesnt matter anyway, australia doesnt have an aircraft carrier, and isnt likely 2 have 1 soon, and at any rate, in the time it would take 2 launch 4 f-18s from a carrier,(the number needed to drop as many bombs as an f-111) the f-111 would have dropped its bombs and already be half way home.

[sandw321]

i presume so but the planes are getting to old. if the f-111 was that good i dont see why they should go buying f/18s why couldnt they make a new model of the f-111? update it kinda. but its my dream to be in the airforce. beeen trying hard. still in grade 9 a bit longer.

[peterogr]

you are right, Brendon Nelson is a moron and yes they should

[derro1989]

brendon nelson is a tool, i wouldnt be surprised if he thought an f-111 was some sorta army rifle, lol, yes the f-111 is old, but the arizona desert in america is chocka-block full of f-111s that dont fly anymore. and theres no reason y parts from these planes cant be used to keep our fleet of f-111s from flying on for at least another 10 years.

[srsairbags]

but i dont blame them . . . the 111 was built in late 60s and these are 30 year old planes . . they may be fast and may have some maneuverability . . . . but still gen wise and maintainability wise . . to keep them air worthy for long is a bad idea . . . .

[peterogr]

we totally rebuild them including the wing, they reckon another 20 years without problems if we wanted. There are no restrictions placed on their envelope due to age.

[srsairbags]

this thing youll loose on the EW suite alone . . . and dont under estimate the f18 airframe . . . . remember . . . the prowler and the f18 are the only planes which have shot down the f22 in combat sims . . . .

[peterogr]

The Aussie F111s have all the latest EW systems as well as the interoperability packages, but 111s are not about dogfights, gee the missiles are only marginaly faster than the 111. And you have to know its coming first to get a chance. Didn't know an F18 got an F22 (well theoreticaly speaking) Its all about roles. The gooses here just thought they can replace an F111 with an F18 in the F111 role. Fraction of the payload and range no TFR and slower by a lot not good.

[AnonymousDiv0]

Impossible to reverse? I'm no expert, but I can't figure out how it could be too late to reverse the decision until the aircraft are actually scrapped, or sold to somebody else.

We already ordered the Super Hornets as "replacements", but they should simply be considered as a supplement.

I've heard of the F-22 variant, but the price wouldn't nearly be worth it. And that's assuming the US would even sell them to us. They're understandably keen to maintain their exclusive monopoly on the F-22.

[peterogr]

The people sought employment elsewhere once they knew it was getting scrapped. Well, thats what he said. He was specificaly asked about the F111s at the press club and claimed one of the first things he wanted to do was stop the scrapping.

[AnonymousDiv0]

Who sought employment elsewhere? The people responsible for the maintenance?

Even if that was the case, hiring the personnel back would have to be cheaper than the per-unit cost of replacing every F-111 with a new aircraft. F-18F aircraft are apparently US$55 million each, and US$83 million for the F-35. Multiply the cost by 21, to replace the active F-111's on a 1:1 basis.

Hire the personnel back, refurbish all our current F-111's, even buy some new ones, and we would still come out ahead.

[peterogr]

I agree, you got any government contacts?

I would be buying more of em, not scrapping them.

So they claim, since I was there apparently a lot of this stuff is done outside the RAAF.

The US has apparently offered us spare parts almost indefinitely at cost. Local developments have extended the airframe life almost indefinitely, I dunno, go figure?

I cant imagine a much scarier bomber than the F111 with the latest avionics/engines.

The Russians didnt like it much.

[AnonymousDiv0]

Unfortunately I'm all out of government contacts.

The PM was in my city a week or so back, but unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity to sit him down for a bit of a chat.

I have a couple of more things to discus with him, too - like public education policy and Internet censorship.

I'm not sold on the idea of outside contractors doing military work. I imagine it would ultimately be cheaper, more secure, and higher quality controls for the personnel to work directly for the Air Force.

[peterogr]

The Rudd government is all about spin and photo ops anyway, Yes it should be all In House. He doesnt answer my letters either... maybe if I win the Aus Open he will stand next to me? He wont do anything about internet censorship, he thought it sounded good at the time, lets face it he hasnt really done anything since he has been in, oh, he is sorry tho.

[AnonymousDiv0]

I know they can't keep flying forever, but it really is a shame the RAAF are retiring the F-111's.

Surely the US has a few barely used F-111F's and F-111G's mothballed, that they'd be willing to part with for a reasonable price.

I don't think there's actually any alternative options to the long range strike capability provided by the F-111. As neat as the F-18 Super Hornets and F-35 JSF are, using them to "replace" the F-111 totally nerfs Australia's long-range strike and recon capabilities.

[peterogr]

Apparently we can maintain the airframe indefinitely. Parts are available to at least 2020. There are heaps in the desert in perfect nic. They didnt scrap em just sidelined em.

[AnonymousDiv0]

Ah, excellent. I haven't been keeping up on the news - Are you aware if the Rudd government has made any policy changes to the defence operational and procurement policies set by the Howard government?

[peterogr]

The incoming minister tried to reverse the F111 retirement but by that stage all the expertise was dispersing or dispersed. He claims it was impossible to reverse the decision. Nelson was a moron who played into the hands of Boeing who convinced him the F111s were falling apart. Apparently given the retirement they agree the F18 super is a suitable stopgap and the JSF is the go. There is an F22 variant that could replace the F111, but not yet. Cant imagine the price!

[HEINZUNIMOG]

f18 a whoping 1.8 mach F111 tops out at 2.8+ look at it this way the F111 is faster than a bulet . give that some thout

[djfrogsak]

my dad used 2 work at Edinburgh RAAF base in south australia nd we had the oppotunity 2 c them go head 2 head on a training exercise, at 5000ft both in full afterburner dead level, the F-18 pulled away from the F-111 from word go, sure the F-111 may hav caught it in the end but the pick up in speed from the F-18 left the F-111 behind, by the time the F-111 got up 2 speed, the F-18 was gone, mind u, this was bak in 1992, nd if u no so much then u shulda known that

[peterogr]

It said straight line speed (yeh I should have checked the typo before I posted) not DRAG RACE, I used to drag them on the road on the base next to the runway on my bike, I could beat them off the mark too, does that count? You are not very old are you?

[djfrogsak]

wat was ur bike, a moped?, lol, jj, anything can beat a jet off the mark on a runway, even a person on foot, of course the victory will b very short lived, bt the F-18 pulled away nd kept going, F-111 didnt catch up 4 a while, on an aircraft carrier ur bike wuld b left 4 dead off the mark, even if it was a hyabusa 1300cc turbo, im turning 30 in march if u must know, fighter jets has been sumfin iv loved ever since me old man took me 2 the RAAF base wen i was 4

[peterogr]

I dont think we really disagree on anything, maybe I am just having difficulty coming to grips with your abbreviated/bro form of the english language. I am curious to know as to how it was possible to observe this demonstration over land given speed the restrictions in force and the distances involved. From low speed, low altitude, short distance and even 20 miles is a short distance in aviation terms, the 18 wins hands down, At only 600kts you travel 5 miles every 30secs.

[peterogr]

The bottom line. F18 mach 1.8 the F111 2.5plus. Add to that, double the range and double the payload with greater penetration capabilities and no need for in flight refueling. It is generally accepted that (for example only) you would require 4 F18s to replace each F111 on a run to Jakarta. Most of the 18s would be lost along with the tanker. Most 18s would end up out of fuel and in the ocean. Most F111s would return un touched.

[djfrogsak]

i understand ur view point, Edinburgh RAAF base isnt far from the salt plains near Two Wells and Waterloo Corner beach so as soon as they get ther they hav no speed restrictions, i dont doubt the F-111 has far more capabilitys than the F-18 as in range, straight line speed and payload, we spoke 2 alot of pilots at the base, the F-111 nd F-18 went over us at the base 2gether but wen they got out over the ocean was where it took place

[peterogr]

From another site...

SOME basic speed info F18 mach 1.80 / F22 mach 1.72 / B1B mach 1.25 {replacment in us inventory for the f111] and the F111 mach 2.5/F111 in ASSF inventory mach 2.8-3 THE only reson the F111 is not in service with the US at this time Russia would not agree to nuclear disarmerment unless the F111 was removed from europ and fased out of service . as for F18/F22 you have no hope in hell of catching a F111. I have spoken to someone who had mach 3 out of one.

[djfrogsak]

mach 3 out of an F-111?, damn thats quik, they shuldnt hav replaced them, i know they can do mach 2.5 easy but i didnt no they culd go that quik, lol, same with the F-14 Tomcats, shuldnt hav taken them outa service, Tomcat is 1 of the best all rounders in their days, the only good thing bout the F-22 is the manouverability, same with the SU-37, that was built 2 match the Raptor

[peterogr]

You are absolutely right, Brendan Nelson needs his backside kicked severely and constantly. They did 2.5-7 before all the engine upgrades

[HEINZUNIMOG]

combat range. the F18 has a range of around 540km/330mil. the F111 has a combat radius of 2,140km/1,330mil. so the f18 while going slower and caries less of a load still needs to refule 4 times .

[skyranch05]

um not to sound smart but mabey the f-111 beet the f-18 because the f-18 was at cruise and the f-111 was in afterburner;) just a hint xD

[peterogr]

You dont see the afterburner effects on that plane in multiplayer

[UnsungSandwhich]

what game/simulator is this?

[LoudS1l3nc3]

I think its FS2004 by the way the afterburners lit on

[6V92TA]

oh hell yea. An F-111 would kick a Hornet's ass speed wise. Imagine an F-111 with GE F110s instead of those shitty Pratt Whitney engines that came with it. Or better yet, the new Pratt/Whitney F119-PW-100 engines!! WHOA!

[peterogr]

Funny enough in the early 80s i think it was we replaced the engines with, does TF100 mean anything? I think they have been completely replaced again, dont know what with. From memory it nearly added an extra 5000lbs per engine, but that sounds like a lot extra, maybe im gettin old.

[macdonaldjohnstonfan]

They now have PW TF33 engines.

[peterogr]

Thanks, I was thinking of the TF30s, came to me just after I posted. I am getting old.

[orbitup]

I need to know what game I can pay to fly an F-111! Please!

[treeintervention]

f111 is not a fighter but blows the f18 away with speed power and noise anyway!

[UnsungSandwhich]

true the F-111 is not a fighter it is used primarily as a bomber but it still has the capbilities to be a fighter (well about 20 years ago)..

[MajorC44]

Technically, yes. It was only classed as a fighter to me SALT agreements in NATO. It always flew with Sparrows on the wing tips and thereby was classified as a fighter. At one point, they even had a gun mount in the center bay, but whats the worth of a gun at M2.5?

[HEINZUNIMOG]

verry nice go pig go

[Gromit801]

I was a Vark crew chief, and we had a few bird come home with the paint burnt off the leading edges. They zip along very, very nicely.

[jaredfloyd1]

Ive seen a10s do the same thing. Missing paint means nothing!

[Gromit801]

It does when you're in a position to know just how fast the Varks really were.

[peterogr]

I worked on the Avionics on the F111 not too long after we first took delivery. Jared, the paint wasnt missing, it was stripped off by dust/heat. They go much faster than the published figures and the Aus engines are not standard.

[xj6001991]

nope no chance in hell go the PIG

[youarthurhu]

Tomcats can also do M2.5

Original Cobra was optimized for M1.something because that's where most air combat is.

[peterogr]

but would imageine only at altitude, i know persoanly of an real F111 at 3.2 to 3.5 in a shallow dive.The 111 is def not a fighter in the modern sense, but 20,000 payload and 32,000 fuel unmatched

[MajorC44]

Yep, but not sustained. At M2.5 the Tomcat is out a fuel in 10 min.

[staviation]

Ha Ha gr8 pete