Re: John 3:16 Conference: Former Calvinist in the Q&A Session

[Isaiah1v18]

@Providential1611

This gnostic deity "commands" people to obey, but has SOVEREIGNLY DECREED for them to disobey to BURN them FOREVER, who purposed their DAMANTION from the FOUNDATION of the WORLD, "BEFORE they were born or had done anything either good or bad" for His GOOD pleasure to Glorify Himself, then tries to justify his deception under the illusion that they're going to hell for 'sin'

There is no "choice", God has SOVEREIGNLY FATED EVERY end-result, for every human being on Earth.

[Maestrohbill]

That's because like every other bully you ever encountered, he's a big, tough man - but doesn't have the balls to put his position on the line despite claiming he can debate. Guys who talk into cameras like this are the equivalent of guys at the gym who can bench press 500 lbs - barbells don't hit back & cameras prevent an evaluation. He's doing this here because he's been skinned alive with his phony "toughness" on ever board he ever posted. It's compensating for a certain masculine deficiency

[Providential1611]

@Maestrohbill And Bitter Bill Brown, bored with life, and apparently a short period without strife and railing, has appeared again to tell MORE LIES because he is possessed with a LYING SPIRIT--they usually come in religious form--and present fiction as fact. Unlike Bill, who coulnd't bench press 20 lbs, I am spiritually and physically fit. I simply stopped wasting time with a man on a CORRUPTLY RUN forum whereslanderers like him could do no wrong, but we are censored always

[Providential1611]

@Maestrohbill And Bitter Bill Brown, bored with life, and apparently a short period without strife and railing, has appeared again to tell MORE LIES because he is possessed with a LYING SPIRIT--they usually come in religious form--and present fiction as fact. Unlike Bill, who coulnd't bench press 20 lbs, I am spiritually and physically fit. Repent Bill. Your lying ways will find you out. The Lord knows all and sees all.

[Providential1611]

@Maestrohbill And Bitter Bill Brown, bored with life, and apparently a short period without strife and railing, has appeared again to tell MORE LIES because he is possessed with a LYING SPIRIT--they usually come in religious form--and present fiction as fact. Unlike Bill, who coulnd't bench press 20 lbs, I am spiritually and physically fit. Repent Bill. Your lying ways will find you out. The Lord knows all and sees all.

[Providential1611]

@Maestrohbill And Bitter Bill Brown, bored with life, and apparently a short period without strife and railing, has appeared again to tell MORE LIES because he is possessed with a LYING SPIRIT--they usually come in religious form--and present fiction as fact. Unlike Bill, who coulnd't bench press 20 pounds, I am spiritually and physically fit. Repent Bill. Your lying ways will find you out. The Lord knows all and sees all.

[skoobalon]

you always look and sound like you're ready to rumble

[bull1504]

Are you playing a game here Providential1611? Your boy giving his 5 minute "testimony" clearly implied that CALVINISTS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS...don't twist it around now saying that calvinism is not christianity ...stop it!!

again...your boy DIDN'T SAY THAT CALVINISM IS NOT CHRISTIANITY rather HE IMPLIED THAT CALVINISTS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS

[christian333faith]

ANY CALVINIST HERE??? PLS REPLY.. pls read this Ezekiel 18:22-32 God does not desire to the death of the wicked.......!!!

[bull1504]

@christian333faith YET THE WICKED CHOOSE TO SIN AND LOVE TO BE IN DARKNESS JOHN 3:19

THE WICKED WILL PERISH BECAUSE THEY LOVE THEIR SIN

[dsullfbc]

Isn't this just your opinion? If you look back in church history, you will find that a lot of preachers and churches had a reformed theology ... Sorry to burst your bubble. But I am a Christian and I also am a calvinist. And to say I am not a Christian is treading on thine waters my friend.

[Jehu30]

Good vid. bro, I find Calvinism detestable, & the hyper form of it, the prettier sister of fatalistic Islam.

[marcelobetel]

And as we can see, some (not just a few, btw) believed in Jesus:

"Still, however, also out of the rulers did many believe in him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing, that they might not be put out of the synagogue," (Jo 12:42, YLT)

See? The men that could NOT believe did not believe because Isaiah said, that's the reality to those that can only "see" material things like they was doing.

They will NEVER see 'till they loose everything (Is 6:10-13). They trust in material..

[jphillip213]

By the way: I wish you the best, and that your mind might be led captive to the Word of God and be freed from philosophy and myths. It is so good just to be able to believe what the text says! As to ICHABOD- the churches that depart from Calvinism are usually the liberal ones- b/c one departure from the text leads to others

A return to Arminianism is a return to the theology of Rome from which we REFORMED I'll stand on the text. Seriously: answer q's 2 and 3 from the text of John 12..

[jphillip213]

Seriously: "C's ruin everything" is not an argument that works. Deal with the text and stop the insults.

Yes or no: could the people in John 12:37-40 believe? Simple answers, no philosophy or retorts, please! Answer three questions to show you are honest, and able to interact honestly with the Bible: 1) Could they believe? a. yes or b. no? 2) Who blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts? a. God or b. themselves? 3) Why did he do this? a. Lest they see and repent? or b. John 3:16!!!!

[Providential1611]

@jphillip213 Calvinists DO ruin everything, that is a sad HISTORICAL, DOCUMENTABLE FACT. So it is QUITE THE ARGUMENT--a tree is known by its fruits.

Yes those people COULD BELIEVE. The reason it went that way for them is CLEARLY EXPLAINED in Romans 1:18-32,

Do you DENY that God SO LOVED THE WORLD??? Why yes, you do, in typical Calvinist fashion

[jphillip213]

@Providential1611 Thanks for demonstrating again for me why I am not an Arminian. The text (and the Holy Spirit) says they "could not believe" and you say "they COULD BELIEVE" even being so bold as to use all caps to rage against the Word of God! If you won't let people appeal to other verses to explain John 3:16, why don't you stick to the context of John 12? Outos gar agapasen ton kosmon: I believe John 3:16, AND don't deny its power as you do!

Care to answer questions 2) and 3)?????

[marcelobetel]

@jphillip213 Excuse me; I just want to question about your peseption about SIGNS to prove that Jesus Christ IS THE MESSIAH and something different. Do you know the difference? Did you read Isaiah 53, right? Did you ever got flue after become a calvinist "christian"? Did you ever read Is 53:4-5?

Well, that's for those who really believe. The text says that THEY WOULDN'T believe in ISAIAH/Jesus and because of that they couldn't believe (recognze) The Messiah and live the benefits of HIS, right?

[jphillip213]

That is so ironic! As the Father raises the dead, so the Son quickens whom he will! (John 5:21). I guess Lazarus had a choice as to whether or not to live when Jesus called him out of the tomb, huh? Your system is the one that denies the power of God to quicken dead sinners by the word of his power. But, I guess John 1:13 means that they really were born of the will of the flesh... Can you answer my questions regarding John 12:37-40 using arminianism? That should be fun to read...

[gossippguy]

good job. calvinism is freakin false.... God reached out to save us.. he sent his ONLY son so we'd have the choice to be saved and people come up with bull crap like this.... nice way to appreciate God giving up his only son

[jphillip213]

Oh, help me out in my ignorance. Yes or no: could the people in John 12:37-40 believe? Simple answers, no philosophy, please! Answer three questions to show you are honest, and able to interact honestly with the Bible: 1) Could they believe? a. yes or b. no? 2) Who blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts? a. God or b. themselves? 3) Why did he do this? a. Lest they see and repent? or b. John 3:16!!!!

[jphillip213]

Pride and unteachableness? Really? Your presentation absolutely drips with pride. Your comments are condescending rather than interactive with the Scripture. So, will all that the Father gives to Jesus come to him? Will any of them that come be lost? Just curious... Also, do you think Southern is better or worse since a Calvinist took the helm? "Calvinists" began the Baptist church... and many of them had a better than fourth grade comprehension...of English, Greek and Hebrew! LBC 1689

[Providential1611]

@jphillip213 Calvinists ruin everything. Yes, they may help Southern in some edumacation, but having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof is what they are known for, therefore ICHABOD is the future of any group that comes under the DELUSION of Calvinism.

[Haukman66]

Hah, nice try bud! LOL. Again, no scripture support for your silly assertions. What a shame.

[Providential1611]

@Haukman66 My point required no Scripture, as the assertion that Calvinism is NOT the gospel is obvious, If you can produce the verse that says Calvinism is the gospel---go right ahead. IT IS NOT.

[Haukman66]

@Providential1611 According to your silly logic, the Trinity doesnt exist either, as there is no verse in the bible, that says there is! So do you deny the Trinity too? Try again!

[Providential1611]

@Haukman66 Logic? Calvinists ought not appeal to that which they don't understand and which they and their doctrine violate at every turn. The GOSPEL is spelled out in 1Cor. 15:1-4. The man who says Calvinism is the gospel is preaching another gospel.

[Haukman66]

@Providential1611 Sovereignty is an attribute of God. You deny this. All men are sinful and depraved in their natural state! You deny this. Natural man can do nothing to please God, or to merit salvation. You deny this. What is the gospel? That Christ came and lived a perfect life, was crucified, died and was buried and rose again on the third day, that by doing so, He said "It is finished"!! Salvation was secured for His elect! You deny this. So what was the Gospel to you?

[Providential1611]

@Haukman66 Show me where Sovereingty is mentioned in Paul's summary of the GOSPEL THAT SAVES in 1Cor. 15:1-4. Show me where ANY POINTS of the TULIP are mentioned. They are NOT. You would do better to simply ADMIT what I have said is true, and the there is NO CALVINISM in the GOSPEL THAT SAVES we find in Paul's summary, rather than engaging as a Calvinist apologist. Don't learn their lying ways. Christ calls you to light, integrity and honesty. Think about it.

[Haukman66]

@Providential1611 LOL, you are ridiculous.  Man is depraved. Dead in sin. Eph. 2:1, Col. 2:13. Natural man does not receive the things of God, nor can he. 1Cor. 2:14. Also see, Romans 6:13, 8:7-8. maybe check the ot for depravity. Gen. 6:5, 8:21,Isaiah 64:6, Jer. 17:9. So you deny this? You think you were good? Bible refutes you. And I never said, that Paul made mention of Sovereignty in 1Cor. 15. But he knew, it was God who saves, not man. Its all over the bible.

[Providential1611]

@Haukman66 So you want no part of 1Cor. 15:1-4, which PROVES that Calvinism IS NOT CHRISTIANITY, which is the point of my video, and which proves James White is a deceiver.

Once again, SHOW ME from 1Cor. 15:1-4 where Paul declares Calvinism and its points to be part and parcel of the Gospel.

[Haukman66]

@Providential1611 Show me where the word Trinity is in the bible. Or show me where in 1Cor. 15, it says that we must believe in Jesus. This meaning, to do with the gospel. James White claims Calvinism is christianity, and he is right. The 5 points of calvinism, makeup the doctrines, christians hold to. And this is shown from scripture. I see you will not address my total depravity verses. 

[Providential1611]

@Haukman66 Why don't you just admit that WHITE IS WRONG, which is often the case with him, and that the Gospel THAT SAVES, plainly spelled out by Paul, has no Calvinism in it? Why can't you admit what IS OBVIOUS to anyone with an ounce of integrity and a fourth grade level of English comprehension?  Well, I say its the DISEASE called Calvinist that makes you incapable of such. Sad

[Haukman66]

@Providential1611 I keep hearing alot of accusations, and alot of talking, but nothing to refute me. LOL. I am still waiting for you to refute total depravity! Because you cant. You said, all of calvinism is false. Show me. And I have said, the gospel does save. there is no disagreement there. And White would agree. But you add your freewill to it. Which is unbiblical! I am still waiting.....

[Providential1611]

@Haukman66 No, you are not "hearing" anything. You have been refuted, as has White. You can't admit it. You are a Calvinst. Calvinism steeps men in pride and unteachableness. So you can't learn anything or see anything. The blind-James White, leads the blind-you.

[iamnotbutinoiam]

idk guys i seriously dont understand why there is so much hate towards some1 who believes that God saved me and gave me the GIFT of faith and the GIFT of repentance and if it wasn't for God's work i would be lost... I hated God and would continue to hate God unless He acted in me FIRST..."We love Him because He first loved us" ring a bell to you? idk im just saying if God did not save me i wouldn't be saved because i used my "free will" to reject God until God decided to open my eyes... but idk.

[iamnotbutinoiam]

@tgillspy1 haha did my comment describe something unchristian??? or unbiblical??? i mean if you want i can give you verses that show that God has mercy on whom He chooses?? heres a cool quote think about it :P..

"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." John Owen

[AugmentedMinor]

Wow, another Arminian trying to hold his position with no Scripture...and you say Calvinists aren't Christians? XD

[jofandkerstin]

I find it very interesting that the Armenian view as portrayed on these posts attempts to argue against calvinism emotively and without any biblical basis. Please provide a sound exegesis of texts such as John 6, Eph 1 and Romans 8 and 9 so that us ignorant calvinists may be enlightened. Scripture teaches that man is both spiritually dead and in bondage to sin, just wondering how much so called 'free will' a dead slave has? Soli Deo Gloria. God Bless

[veloce22]

I hope your right about calvinists being Christian......I really don't see a bibical Jesus in their belief system.....If it wasn't for Mani from the second century there would be NO calvinist....

[u2bMODERATOR]

3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4For while one saith, I am of ARMINIUS ; and another, I am of CALVIN; are ye not carnal? 5Who then is ARMINIUS , and who is CALVIN, but ministers( ?) by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

21Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's;

1 CORINTHIANS 3

[Providential1611]

@u2bMODERATOR That is right. And when men like James White stop disobeying 1Cor 3, and when they stop LYING by claiming "Calvinism is the gospel", we will stop refuting and exposing their carnality and lies.  Until then, we must earnestly contend for the faith and refute deceivers.

[u2bMODERATOR]

@Providential1611 The problem with their thoughts is incoherence:They Say: God is sovereign and all is his decision . And also they say men is totality evil .1+1 , and we have the result: "God is sovereign but he makes men evil". Also , they say that the elects can commit sins in spots , but not living in sin. So what we can say about Calvin that lived with a so huge angry against Servet and it ended in his murder? They are saying then, that they follow the doctrine of a non elected .

[jofandkerstin]

@u2bMODERATOR whilst I appreciate the sentiment, it does not really assist in the discussion - these are exactly the issues that Christians should debate so long as it done in a respectful and Christlike manner and not ad hominem. Nobody is claiming to be of Calvin or Armenius in the corinthian sense but we use these terms for the convenience of describing our theological position. Soli Deo Gloria.

[iamnotbutinoiam]

@u2bMODERATOR you have a common misconception when i say i am a calvinist that just means that i believe in the doctrines of grace its just like me saying i believe in the doctrine of regeneration it is not going against scripture to say that i believe the doctrines of calvinism its just an interpretation of scripture and its an easy way to know exactly what doctrine one believes in... i never even read anything from calvin so when i say im a calvinist i dont put my allegiance in him at all

[bregan8813]

"god is love, but love is not god" If you believe that, and that is what christianity believes (which I doubt) you just removed any respect that I had for YOUR backward, narrow and unsubstantiated view of your religion. My goodness, you are alienating people who believe essentially the same thing! What is wrong with you?!

[Providential1611]

@bregan8813 I doubt you have any respect for any religion, if your posts on evolution are true and you aren't a troll. If you don't understand the difference between "God is love" vs "love is God", then the problem is with your ability to comprehend English and concepts. In that same epistle I referenced, we are told that "love is OF God". Not only are you not a scientist, you are no theologian. Lastly, I do not care how you judge me and God's Word. We'll see what Jesus says about you & me

[u2bMODERATOR]

@bregan8813 iT IS THE SAME OF SAYING: iCE IS FORMED BY WATER, BUT WATER IS NOT ICE.

[iamnotbutinoiam]

haha ok buddy so believing in a totally sovereign God and living for His glory alone and saying that salvation comes only by the power of God isn't christian???.... answer me a question can you choose to not die in the next couple mins? can you by your own power guarantee your next breathe? does God not have mercy on whom ever He CHOOSES not whomever chooses to make God have mercy on him?

[dhkocher]

Sorry P1611 - your logic fails. Straw men arguments don't make your case. Get off your soapbox and read Eph. 1.

[grantedimustbeinsane]

ummmm......... in 2000 years of church history calvinism has been the prevaling doctrines. up until the last 70 years...........

I would rather not debate calvinism but to say that it is not historical is REALLLLLLY stretching history to fit your belief

[Providential1611]

@grantedimustbeinsane There is only two points to make to you:

1- You have innocently drank the Kool-aid the Calvinists have given you, where they tell you lies like what you posted...or

2- You are deliberately dishonest.

Anyone who has READ the 8 volumes of the anteNicene fathers, and who has furthered studied church history and the history of doctrine, knows Augustine was THE FIRST TO INTRODUCE Calvinistic ideas into Christianity, and he was rejected universally. FACT.

[grantedimustbeinsane]

@Providential1611 He would not be considered a saint if he was not accepted by the Christian community at large.

Martin luther believed in single predestination but said God had no part in choosing who was not to be saved. which is not logical in itself but it is a start, calvin came to the conclusion of double predestination, calvinism became the leader in protestantism. That lead to many other denominations but predominantly, the Baptists. i just assume your a baptist btw.

[grantedimustbeinsane]

@Providential1611 Whe i read 1611 i assume you to be a KJV ONLY person? Well i can reason with a Christian who uses the kjv, I cannot reason with a person who consideres it the only bible to use because of some back flip you make with scripture. so i am out of this conversaion unless the 1611 in your name is a coincidence

[Providential1611]

@grantedimustbeinsane Perhaps if you knew what the word providential meant, then you would understand why I tied it to 1611.

[theembracedofgod]

Calvinism is Christianity lol.

your whole video is false. 

[Providential1611]

@theembracedofgod Calvinism is heretical blasphemy. Your comments are false

[theembracedofgod]

Calvinism is demonstrated through out scripture my friend... your kind hates that.

I assure you given the basic Arminian's philosophy of the biblical text and the Calvinist's biblical exegesis, Calvinism always comes out on top. you know this... you just can't accept it. Like the mormon who can not accept that the book of mormon was fabricated likewise any arminian who can't accept that Arminianism was also a fabrication of falsehood embraced by the Roman Catholic Church.

[Providential1611]

@theembracedofgod  Calvinists TWIST the Bible and texts, they don't do exegesis! They are surely EXPERTS at PERVERTING the words of the living God. Every cultists can take lessons from Calvinism on how to pervert the Bible..

Calvinism is APOSTASY. It is a departure from the faith of the Ante-Nicene period, which was Arminian at all places and times. Augustine the apostate was THE FIRST to introduce his FATALISTIC PHILOSOPHY into Christianity. You are following a heretic.

[theembracedofgod]

Arminians twist the bible and texts! they don't do exegesis! they are experts at perverting the words of the living holy God, your an cultist that can not allow Gods divine word speak for itself.

come on, buddy aren't you tired of speaking foolishness rather than getting to the real issue?

Calvinism still beats you using biblical evidence. Mindless humanism/arminianism philosophy can never match its standing biblically ever....

[Providential1611]

@theembracedofgod You have yet to DEMONSTRATE any exegesis or Biblical argumentation. You are yet another Ad Hominem troll. You are also in sin according to Matthew 5:22. Not that you care, most Calvinist apologists don't. They are so used to be in the flesh all the time that they have no conscience, hence they can rail and lie all day long without a tinge of conscience. Your doctrine is demonic

[theembracedofgod]

I have not made any sin. and not even towards your attempt to apply scripture where it doesn't belong. You made a shallow comment, and by example I replied the same to show you how meaningless it is.

again aren't you tired of speaking foolishness rather than getting to the real issue?

humanism/Arminianism philosophy has no biblical evidence to provide a good bases of salvation.

You have a doctrine of Works based salvation... you need to read all of Hebrews for your own sake.

[Providential1611]

@theembracedofgod You called me a "fool". In Matthew 5:22 Christ said if you call your brother a "fool", you are in danger of HELL FIRE. Repent. The "humanist" is the one, when faced with his blatant sin, will not own it and repent, like David did.

[theembracedofgod]

you are a foolish man, I'm just stating a fact. do you prefer false teacher?

false teachers are in danger of hell fire too, I guess we all are going to Hell huh.

[theembracedofgod]

have not made any sin. and not even towards your attempt to apply scripture where it doesn't belong. You made a shallow comment, and by example I replied the same to show you how meaningless it is.

again aren't you tired of speaking foolishness rather than getting to the real issue?

humanism/Arminianism philosophy has no biblical evidence to provide a good bases of salvation.

You have a doctrine of Works based salvation... you need to read all of Hebrews for your own sake.

[stegokitty]

Calvinists believe that God saves sinners. Everyone else believe that God helps sinners to save themselves.

Calvinism is Christianity.

[MrSheptical]

@stegokitty Your assertion that everyone else believes that God helps sinners to save themselves is categorically false. Just because I believe as a Christian that God allows us free will to choose does not mean that I believe we save ourselves. "8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

[stegokitty]

@MrSheptical - First you must define what you mean by "free will" and then define the "whom" it is who has "free will".

The Word of God says that we are born into this world sinners, guilty by association with Adam's sin, and of our own sin, and suffering the consequences thereof; that we are DEAD spiritually, blind and deaf to God; enslaved to sin and Satan, enemies of God, unable to understand spiritual things, fleshly, unable to please God and unwilling to. Sound like a "free" will to you?

[MrSheptical]

@stegokitty Question: how can we be blind and deaf if we're dead? That doesn't make logical sense. Obviously when the Bible talks of us being "dead" it's referring to us being separated from God, not spiritually annihilated. But does that mean that we don't still hear God or understand him? If so, then how do you explain Genesis 3:10? Is Adam not fallen at that point? Is he not spiritually "dead"? How could he hear God then? How could he understand?

[stegokitty]

@MrSheptical - Answer: Because the Bible says we are blind and deaf and dead. And logically speaking, all dead people are ipso facto blind and deaf by default.

No one ever mentioned "spiritual annihilation". I don't even know what that means. Please expound. We can understand the words, we cannot respond to them properly unless and until we are born from above. Jesus said UNLESS you are born again, you can neither see nor enter the kingdom. God may have regenerated Adam already at that point.

[MrSheptical]

@stegokitty You say that you can't respond to the words, yet we are commanded to. We all are, believers and non-believers alike. Why would God command someone that can't heed to his commands? You said that we must be born again in order to respond to them but what would be the point of responding to them if we're already born again? cont....

[stegokitty]

@MrSheptical - Jesus said "No one CAN (has the ability) to come to me UNLESS the Father DRAWS (literally compels) him." The command goes into the ears of all who hear, but the command goes into the elect as an awakening call. They hear the call, are awakened, thusly enabled to see their sin, hate it, turn to Christ in repentance and faith. They cannot do this (because they will not) UNLESS their hearts are changed by God.

[MrSheptical]

@stegokitty ...cont. And you saying that God may have regenerated Adam is just your speculative opinion. Further, how could he be regenerated before Christ's sacrifice? Is time just a matter of flux capacitors and flying Deloreans now? Does God just change history when and however he wants to? If God could regenerate Adam before Christ's sacrifice, what was the point of Christ's sacrifice?

[stegokitty]

@MrSheptical - What on earth??? Buddy, no one has ever been saved but by the exact same way that they are saved even to this day: by God's grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Christ is everlasting to everlasting. Abraham was regenerated by the Holy Spirit just as every believer. You have no basis to suggest otherwise. Everything you've said is mere conjecture of your imagination and is opposed to the revelation of Scripture. The wickedness of Dispensationalism spews forth again.

[stegokitty]

@MrSheptical - Jesus said "I lay down my life for the Sheep." Christ's sheep are all over the world (not just Jews) and from the beginning of time to the return of Christ. Christ's death was the payment in full for the sins of His people. I don't even know what the goofy "If God could regenerate Adam before Christ's sacrifice" silliness even means. God power has never been restricted. Your faulty theology has you believing thusly without Biblical support.

[MrSheptical]

@stegokitty FWIW, I'm not trying to offend with any of my comments. I just want to make that known. Much of Calvinism, to me, appears to be very contradictory to the Bible. I'm not saying that there aren't Calvinists who are Christians or even that God can't use Calvinist theology to bring people to him. God can use a rock on the ground if need be. This world is broken. That much we can agree on, and regardless we can agree that only through Christ can you be saved.

[stegokitty]

@MrSheptical - Actually you were trying to offend. If you've changed your mind, then that's great, and I'm willing to forgive and forget and move on in good dialogue. But making assertions doesn't prove anything. You claim that Calvinism contradicts the Bible. So, where? And not only are we fallen men broken, we are enemies of God from birth! We hate holiness UNTIL our hearts of stone are changed to hearts of flesh by the Spirit of God.

[MrSheptical]

@stegokitty What part of what I said was me "trying to offend"?

[stegokitty]

@MrSheptical - I've been around long enough to know when someone is baiting, and that's what you were doing. All we Biblical Christians wish is for people to accuse us of believing what we actually believe, rather than playing the faggotty, cowardly game like GBFNorwalk (et al) who do nothing but erect straw men, and clam to "refute" Calvinism. These are nothing more than cowards, and are not worthy of any respect. Want to join their ranks or actually engage someone in meaningful dialogue?

[rkg62976]

2Pet. 3:9-- Context: the 'parousia', or, Second Advent, and the fact that there will be scoffers and mockers (v.3-7).

Address: "beloved", "us"(v.1-2, 8-9)= Believers; "they" (v.3-7)= Unbelievers.

v.8-9-- Peter is addressing believers (the "us"), verses the "they" (scoffers/mockers).

2Pet.3:9-- "..is longsuffering to US-WARD, not willing that any [of us] should perish, but that all [of us] should come to repentance."

*Exegesis of 2Pet.3:9 ;)

[rkg62976]

Providential1611 says, "God is love". I recommend everyone read 1Jn.4:8,16, and then asks yourselves, is there particularity in these verses? Is the apostle not making a distinction between those who show no love and those that do? "And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him." (1Jn.4:16).

*Truly amazing the way Arminians can take Biblical texts out of the context in which they were written.

[Providential1611]

@rkg62976 Hogwash. 1John 4:14 "We have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour OF THE WORLD". That is our testimony. Calvin and those after him reject this testimony and have argued against it for 500 years. Nice try. It is YOU who takes verse out of context.

[Providential1611]

@Providential1611 Experiencing God's love is had by those who believe, but God IS LOVE, and desires all to be saved because He SO LOVED THE WORLD. Calvinists reject this. They receive not the testimony of the Father or the Son

[rkg62976]

@Providential1611 You simply reveal your eisgetical interpretations of 2Pet.3:9 and Jn.3:16-- both passages which Calvinists have addressed numerous times.

You would not be able to defend your traditional reading of these texts with someone who actually knows what these texts are speaking of.

"Calvinists...receive not the testimony of the Father or the Son"

*We have seen clearly that your false assertions are indefensible.

[Providential1611]

@rkg62976 More false assertions. I BELIEVE what I read, Calvinists DO NOT. I have read the Calvinists interpretation of these verses, and it is every bit as twisted as a Watchtower article "interpreting" John 1:1 or 20:28.

I am quite capable of not only defending what these texts CLEARLY SAY, but I am also able to refute the Calvinist nonsense written to overthrow them.

[Providential1611]

@rkg62976 More false assertions. I BELIEVE what I read, Calvinists DO NOT. I have read the Calvinists interpretation of these verses, and it is every bit as twisted as a Watchtower article "interpreting" John 1:1 or 20:28.

I am quite capable of not only defending what these texts CLEARLY SAY, but I am also able to refute the Calvinist nonsense written to overthrow them

[Providential1611]

@rkg62976 @rkg62976 More false assertions. I BELIEVE what I read, Calvinists DO NOT. I have read the Calvinists interpretation of these verses, and it is every bit as twisted as a Watchtower article "interpreting" John 1:1 or 20:28.

I am quite capable of not only defending what these texts CLEARLY SAY, but I am also able to refute the Calvinist nonsense written to overthrow them

[rkg62976]

@Providential1611 And you assume that the term "kosmos" (world) in 1Jn.4:14, 1Jn.2:2, and Jn.1:29, means "every single individual human being". I assure you, it does not. The word "propitiation", means: "a satisfaction of wrath". Propitiation has also an expiatory element, which means: "a covering and remission of sin". So unless you believe in universal salvation (which is unbiblical), you must admit that the propitiation was not made for every single human being.

[rkg62976]

@Providential1611 1Jn.4:14-- the term "world" in this particular passage is referring to the "kosmos" (world) in the sense of CREATION. Indeed, Jesus Christ alone is the Saviour of the world. There are NO OTHERS! Not Buddha; not Krishna; not Mohammed; not Ghandi.

Do you not believe that God will create the WORLD anew, with only His people inhabiting it? (Is.64:17, 66:22; Rev.21:1,3,5)

[CBALLEN]

I'll put it this way,what Calvinists believe is Christianity.Providential1611,­what should worry you is,why is God hiding the truth from you and allowing you to be deceived so that you will deceive others?That's the real issue here.

[CBALLEN]

@CBALLEN I became a "Calvinist"before I read any Calvin,it just so happens that the way I've have come to understand scripture and the way Clavin understood it,lines up pretty close.All Clavin did,is believe what was written in the scriptures and so do all Calvinsts.

[Providential1611]

What I stated is HISTORICAL FACT. How can God be "hiding" the truth from me? I stated the truth. Ah yes, simple logic like this is always a problem for Calvinism.

[CBALLEN]

@Providential1611 If you read ACT13:48,you can see that those who are ordained to eternal life will believe,not all who believe are appointed to eternal life.

[tgillspy]

Calvinism is of course evil and yes it is completely hypocritical for reformers to align their theology with a murderer. The irony of course, is that paul the apostle was converted. He turned to God from his wicked way being a persecutor of the church ,which he evidently was, in that he was consenting to stephens death. Did calvin repent from burning servetus at the stake- probably not - what a wicked theology........

[October31st1517]

Saved out of Calvinism?

[Providential1611]

Hello Oct 31, long time no hear. I hope all is well with you.

[Bamboiyes]

someone could understand the idea of calvinism and not be saved, but if someone fully understands calvinism and says they are calvinist there is noway they are not a Christian. fully Believing calvinism IS the understanding that Jesus Christ died for you when you did not deserve it at all, and paid for your sins so that you don't have to. I am not saying that your not a christian if you are not calvinist, but if you really fully understand and believe calvinism you are christian

[Providential1611]

I disagree. The gospel that saves is spelled out in 1Cor 15:1-2, and Calvinism is not there. I have not quite a few Calvinists that were slaves to their Theology, like the Pharisees were, but were bereft of the love of God. Calvin was the quintessential Pharisee. While pretending to champion orthodoxy and God's "soveregnty", he persectued and had people put to death for their beliefs, or for insulting him.

[NewDirection4us]

But who had more people killed in the name of religion; Calvin or the Roman Catholic leaders and popes who had many protestant brothers and sisters murdered as "heretics".

[Providential1611]

Who cares? Both of them were evil,both o them were following Augustine and his heresies, and both of them murdered ARMINIANS OF EVERY STRIPE.

[NewDirection4us]

The doctrines of grace are abundant in the scriptures. Jesus said clearly that God choose the elect, not based on the goods works of any man, but in spite of being a sinner. He choses whom He will, based on His own good pleasure and desire. That he grants mercy to some, and not all, is really what bothers you Arminians.

[Providential1611]

The doctrines of grace are in the Bible, Calvinism IS NOT. You want to call Calvinism the doctrines of grace, and so make the issue whether or not we are for the doctrines of grace. Who could be against that.

These kinds of tactics are deceitful, but very Calvinistic.

What bothers me is that Calvinism is blasphemy and very unBiblical

[NewDirection4us]

You could be against it. In fact, all Arminians are against the doctrines of grace. Grace cannot exist with salvation by works, which is what you and so many misguided people believe. Grace is unmerited favor which God bestows on sinners like me in having the Holy Spirit to indwell in me, and change me. Your doctrine has man responsible for receiving the Holy Spirit by making a good decision "to accept" Jesus. You have it backwards. Your praise goes to men for making a good decision!

[Providential1611]

Arminians are NOT against the "doctrines of grace", we are against the fraud parading itself as the doctrines of grace--Calvinism.

You beg the question. Your premise is the VERY ISSUE OF DEBATE--is Calvinism Biblical. By wrapping the phrase "doctrines of grace", you engage is fallacy and dishonesty.

Calvinism is more accurately called The Doctrines of Disgrace.

You are for the Doctrines of Disgrace-Calvinism

I am for the Doctrines of Grace--Arminianism.

[NewDirection4us]

Read John Chap. 17. How many times does Jesus have to say that He saves those whom the Father has given to Him. He prays not for the world, but for those whom the father has given him. The chosen, the elect, His sheep, the ones He came to save. All you have to do is to read the scriptures. Jesus says it over and over. Paul says it. John says it. We are saved by God having chosen us and by Christ accomplishing it at the cross. It's not rocket science. Just read it with n open mind!

[Providential1611]

Uh yes, we learn that those "given to Christ" refers to the Original 12 Apostles, and we also learn in verse 11 that even one of those 12, who were given to Christ, was lost!

Anyone doing honest exegesis can see that those given to Christ refer directly to the 12, and there is another group Christ refers to as "those who believe on their word". That would be all after the 12. Well, I have always said that when we use John 17 to intrepret John 6, Calvinism is refuted.

[NewDirection4us]

... That would be all of the elect after the Apostles, not all as in everybody. Christ either died to save some people, or he died to make some or all people saveable. One way he accomplished why he came to Earth; the other way he didn't. It's really an insult to his knowledge to say that he died for everybody because if that was the case thgen he failed. No, He succeeded and actually saved all of those whom the Father has chosen.

[Providential1611]

Nonsense. Calvinists endlessly reframe the debate and play word games. Christ is the Saviour of all men, especially those who believe-1Tim 4:10. Here Paul affirms Christ is the Saviour of both those who believe and those who don't! He says he is the Savior of ALL MEN! Calvinism is utterly destroyed by this one verse.

And I see you do not wish to examine John 17 too closely. Once we see those "given to Christ" clearly ONLY REFERS to the 12, John 6 no longer helps the Calvinist

[CBALLEN]

.Man must first be BORN OF GOD,the one who changes man's evil nature and takes the blinders off ,so man can see just what kind of hoplessness he's in,before man could or would come to Christ,once this happens we are given to Christ ,who never lets go.

[x8xMIDNIGHTMAREx8x]

@Providential1611 - If Christ is the savior of all men, then why does he condemn some into the lake of fire?

What kind of God is the savior of ALL, and then eternally punishes some?

Not the God of the Bible.

If He is the savior of all, then All are saved. If the Atonement covers every sin of every man universally, then that would include the sin of REJECTION of Christ.

which means that sin is being covered, and God has no basis for which to condemn anyone...that is Universalism...

[x8xMIDNIGHTMAREx8x]

@Providential1611

- " I see you do not wish to examine John 17 too closely. Once we see those "given to Christ" clearly ONLY REFERS to the 12"

Really... What about verse 20 and 21??

"Joh 17:20 NEITHER PRAY I FOR THESE ALONE BUT FOR THEM ALSO WHICH SHALL BELIEVE ON ME THROUGH THEIR WORD; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. "

Looks like we have a context problem...

[ethdaman1985]

No scripture cited, this is just theological and intellectual excrement.

[Providential1611]

It was a response to a premise White had, and I cited HISTORICAL FACT. That is all what is needed.  The "excrement" is your comment and attitude. Let the readers always remember, LOGIC is a subject foregin to Calvinists, who violate every rule of it in order to argue their unBiblical and blasphemous position

[dubvishun]

seems extreme..but theres just no-way any grown man who knows scripture could possibly actually beieve that calvy doctrine,, only 2 things they could possibly be..1- an agent to spread gospel disinfo to help satan ..OR 2 - they are massively retarted..i mean complete morons....but then ya hear the likes of paul washer ..you really cant see how he could be any kinda agent..he sounds like he believes it ..so ones like washer are just plain dumb..example of an educated moron., who means well?

[dubvishun]

white states "no-one gets up to show the young man his error" ..notice his prideful vain intent within is facial expressions - arrogant context as he discredits that "conference he cries ''"i wasnt even told" .i ponder if white does know his error & could posssibly be working thru the vatican to spread this calvy doctrine . ..notice the convenient campaign of this mess scattered about the web shortly after 911 & all the conspiracy stuff for the primed biblically ignorant masses

[edwardpf123]

Amen brother!

[RPM11111]

For Calvinists...

1 Cor 1:11-13

For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. (or I am of Calvin)

Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? (was Calvin crucified for you or were you baptized in the name of Calvin?)

Follow Christ.

Peace

[YoungCalvinist08]

Nope - Calvin wasn't crucified for me, neither was I baptized into the name of Calvin. My use of the name "Calvinist" in my YouTube name is nothing more than a nickname. In everyday life, I'm your everyday, evangelistic, Bible-teaching, Bible-believing Christian.

[RPM11111]

Then listen to what Paul is warning about here. Don't use another's name for the title of you beliefs on what Christ has done.

Whatever you deem the details of it, the work is Christ's, not Calvin's.

Peace.

[scribe7580]

The appellation 'calvinism' is merely a description of a theological system, to suggest the contrary is to all assert that arminians are tagging along behind arminius, you see how silly this can get?

[RPM11111]

No. I don't see how silly it can get. I see how silly it has become.

I would present the same argument to Arminians or anybody else who adopts the name of another for the title of their beliefs. All Bible truth belongs to Christ, not Calvin or Arminius, or anybody else for that matter.

It's what Paul warned about in 1 Cor 1:11-13. When we start to follow after men, other than Christ (I don't mean worship), we divide the body of Christ. 1 Jn 2:27 makes clear who teaches the Body of Christ.

[RPM11111]

Brothers and sisters (men and women) may be in agreement/disagreement with each other in what they believe the Holy Spirit has revealed to them in Christ, but they shouldn't adopt the name of that brother or sister as the 'title' of the Bible truth as they have come to understand it.

I'm sure you get my point.

Peace.

[scribe7580]

Where do you fellowship, who are your theological influences... Do you subscribe to the concept of the trinity?

[RPM11111]

Anywhere where 2 or more are gathered in His name.

I share doctrinal beliefs with many brothers and sisters.

GOD the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit are all in the Bible and are used interchangeably when describing the same attributes.

[scribe7580]

Matthew 18 has nothing to do w/ a prayer meeting..the context is church discipline.

I'm a trinitarian...

[scribe7580]

RPM,

You are far from traditionless, though I would agree that we should me Christocentric and not anthropocentric...btw , it is a strawman argument to say calvinists follow calvin, no calvinist I know of believes that.

[RPM11111]

Tell me about my traditions, please brother?

Strawman???

Many call themselves 'Calvinists'. Have you ever referred to yourself as a Calvinist?

If 'yes', then where is the strawman?

I'm not saying you worship Calvin, but you have his name for the title of your beliefs.

I'm a Christian. I expect you are too. Stop chanting Calvin if your Christocentric.

Peace.

[scribe7580]

Yes I have but merely as an apellation of my theological framwork. I do have traditions...I read scripture within that framwork...do you not as well?

[RefutingCalvinism]

Amen! Amen! AND AMEN!!!

[scribe7580]

Denying original sin, huh...highly unbiblical and heretical.

[RefutingCalvinism]

Believe in Calvinism, huh...highly unbiblical and heretical...

[scribe7580]

Never did answer my question...I can prove biblically that you are dead wrong on original sin...

[Providential1611]

I deny calvinism's doctrine of Total Depravity. It is unBiblical. Men can BECOME totally depraved as per Romans 1:18-32, but they don't start out that way.

[scribe7580]

Hmm, Romans 5:12, Psalm 51: 5....

[AaronM144000]

Amen!