Tatiana Gutsu - 1992 Olympics AA - Vault 2

[Planetimage2]

Miller fans are the sickest and most ******* people out there! Stop pretending she is the coming jusus

[mgymnast99]

I think they should've tied. They were both amazing gymnasts.

[SuperBodee1]

Okay has anyone ever noticed that shannon, although meticuluous to detail, elegant, ect, does not have much power to her work? on beam, yes i know, her best event, her back layouts dont show alot of height. besides precision, theres no wow factor for me with shannon. ever. i prefer watching any soviet or chinese gymanst over shannon any day. any event.

[drm025]

Forgetting about the other apparatuses completely, you would have to be delusional to think that there shouldn't be a bigger difference between gutsu's and miller's vault scores. The fact that miller only scored 0.025 higher on her vault is insane. Her vault had better form and a better landing (Gutsu was heavily bent over)

[Ricoblack2012]

@drm025 totally

[moopoo66]

great gymnast great vault but i think this vault was more of a 9.937 not a 9.950 but i'm glad she won , but all you miller crazy people out there i am a miller fan i love her but she was happy with her silver medal finish why can't you? I mean a silver medal at the olympic's is amazing and that is nothing to fight over!

[all4uanew]

Beautiful gymnast! She absolutely deserved the silver medal.

[ants2876]

@all4uanew yes and Shannon deserved the pewter medal. What a gift Shannon got with her scores on both beam and floor!

[mikeouej]

Sure this vault was not really worth a 9.950, but it was very fair for Gutsu to win the AA : she was underscored on beam ( I still don't get how Miller could have scored higher than Gutsu on beam '-' ) so I think this was the right thing to do for the judges

[gymnasticsloverxoxo]

I entirely agree. I personally think a 9.950 was fine for this, Shannon's got a 9.975 but Gutsu had some leg separation so thats where she got deducted.

[GosfordAbercrombie]

quite ugly but i guess!!!! i'd give it a 9.925

[Rytent]

I am American and a Miller fan, but I also recognize superior athletes and respect Olympic outcomes. I think Gutsu was very deserving of the AA gold, and I can't stand the annoying plague of Miller bitches running around on youtube trying to convince the world Shannon was robbed. It's gymnastics... and a loss by .012 is just life. It sucks if you come in silver by that much but get over it.

[maxy7792]

yeah tell that to shannon miller, obviousley her vaults were better than gutsus, better form, and landed with her legs together, she wasent robbed but she deserved the gold. but what are we going to do about it know it just sucks miller desereved it more than gustu just saying

[mokkyboo]

aw god! like Rytent said, .012 is REALLY close already, and shannon must have been proud of that. shannon didn't get a gold in '92, she worked her ass off for 4 years, and she was rewarded by 2 GOLDS 4 years later. shannon didn't sit there brooding over her loss, she thought about how she could win and make up for the loss.

not that i am a miller fan, but seriously, it was 16 years ago, get over it.

[Selecious]

oh my this is precious.

[dashagl]

Oh my God... is this comment for real?

[gymnasticsloverxoxo]

Shannon was pretty disappointed in her loss actually

[soberanis100]

@Rytent PREACH! :)

[KarenLovesGymnastics]

These Miller fanatics are giving me Miller-o-phobia :S

[kerstenfanatic]

She deserved gold here but she is lucky that the beautiful and stunning Dagmar Kersten was not in the event.

[audie83]

The beautiful, and stunning Dagmar Kersten was a fine gymnast-and had no where near the level of difficulty displayed by Gutsu, or Miller in 1992.

[kerstenfanatic]

Difficulty always upgrades with team. For 88 standards Kersten had great difficulty. If she were in her prime in 92 she would do more then she had in 88 of course, and gymnasts like Miller and Gutsu would have done alot less if their primes were in 88 instead. Even Silivas and Shushunova had nowhere near the difficulty of Miller and Gutsu, but do you really believe this would be the case had they been born later?

[audie83]

I am sorry-I never considered Dagmar Kersten a great gymnast. She was good on uneven bars with some form issues there and elsewhere-she looked untidy to me compared to the sublime grace, line and execution of gymnasts like Omelianchik, Silivas, Shushonova and perhaps especially Dobre. Kersten WAS however a very beautiful girl, with pretty curls and I loved her smile. She should have been a petite model.

[grafgirl27]

I agree on Kersten. She was a nice girl who was good on bars, but overall she is not even in the same league as someone like Maxi Gnauck who came just before her as the top East German.

[audie83]

Maxi I believe actually swept the European medals one year-1981 I think. And long before Khorkina she dominated on bars and won co-silver AA along the great Nadia in 1980. Kersten got on the podium in 1985 I think because better gymnasts like Szabo and Yurchenko were off their game and fell. In today's code she probably could not keep pace with those who were her contemporaries.

[alexandrite105]

i'm sorry my previous few comments are all nearly the same, i was trying to respond to specific comments already posted and it didn't come out like that.

[gymiskrunk]

I don't know about all this "Gutsu rightfully won" stuff. She didn't even "rightfully" qualify for the competition! Yes, she is a good gymnast, and everyone slips up; but in the Olympics you can't afford to...and she did. Yet she still got to be in the AA? Lame, and not a rightful win at all.

[gymnasticsforever95]

she only came home with 5 but yeah

[audie83]

Miller nearly slide out of bounds on her second FX pass the piked double-and she made mistakes on her beam event like Gutsu. Minor mistakes and the judges chose to ignore them all for both athletes.

[gymnasticsforever95]

im gonna be nit picky for deductios o ths vault but im not gona score it: legs spread as hands hit horse (saw in replay in other video), TINY TINYslide forward on landing, and low shoulders on landing as well

[audie83]

She did not slide forward on landing-her feet never even move. She leaned a little forward though-but that did not count just as it didn't for Shushunova in '88.

[grantsherman23]

I don' think you could call it a step. She hardly even moved at all.

[lambielkwanfan]

I am not sure what you are referring to but Gutsu-

bars dismount-stuck cold

beam dismount- near stick, tiny foot movement

floor dismount- stuck cold

vault- stuck 2nd vault that counted cold

If you mean her 1st vault well that was thrown out anyway since the best of 2 count. Her first tumbling pass on floor had a big step but would not be referred to as her dismount but her mount.

[gymnasticsforever95]

what are you talking about her floor dismount?? tat full in??? oh please..tat was the crappiest landing ive ever seen on that move

[audie83]

She didn't move her feet-and that's all that counted then.

[jackmini]

miller BONED the first vault, stuck cold. Gutsu Landed this vault low with a balance check "stick".

[Dunntosh]

Well actually... If you saw Millers second vault... She tried to stick, but didn't hide it completely. The judges HATE THAT!!! Plus they were about equal on this vault. They both stuck one and slightly shifted on the other. Who cares who should have won or not, It's ancient history... Gutsu won, thats all there is to it. If you want to insult Gutsu, go join the air heads on Millers vault vid.

[gymnasticsforever17]

finally!!!!!! ive been telling everyone millers second vault was not stuck she disguised the stick!!!!!!!

[peepers2221]

@Dunntosh lmfao. The thing is miller SHOULD have won because her first vault was a perfect 10, gutsu's best vault was a 9.950. But of course letting an american win the olympic title was unheard of. If gutsu would of done shannon's vault she would of got a perfect 10. but no.. And gutsu shouldn't have been their in the first place. But i have respect for both gymnasts.... My personal opinion is that shannon should of won the title.

[Ricoblack2012]

@peepers2221 i agree

[thespion]

@Dunntosh Miller's first vault should have been a 10. AA Gold Medal - End of Story. Of course, it's popular to bash Shannon Miller and if that makes you feel cool then please, carry on.

[jpalmettoguy]

no one was robbed of anything. think outside your american box.

[russianskatingfan]

It maybe was controversial in the U.S where you live but not in rest of World. Miller's vault was a bit better and she got a bit better score, 9.975 to 9.950 but still loses.

Miller was overscored on floor and beam in fact. I would accuse you of bias being an American, except you put a Chinese ahead of Miller in beam finals who Miller should have beat. So I dont think it U.S bias then, I think you are just dumb.

[todosobretodo]

Miller's vault was not "a bit better" like you say. It was MUCH MUCH better. Form, heigth, precision, and stuck! A difference of 0.025 here is NOT ACCURATE!

[Gymnfan]

Yes, Miller's vault was leaps and bounds better than Gutsu's was.

[russianskatingfan]

She got a lower score then Shannon 9.975 to 9.950. 8 gymnasts got a 9.950 or higher on vault that day. So there is nothing controversial about that, or the final result, even if Miller's vault was a bit better.

Only Americans seem to think Miller was robbed, none of us in Europe feel that.

[muffycat26]

If you want to nitpick scores though:

Miller's beam routine was the worst of the 3 optional ones she did at the Olympics with 2 obvious balance breaks. She still got her highest score of the 3-9.925 which made no sense. As for vault, Miller did score higher then Gutsu on the AA vault, and as for a 10, 10s were very hard to come by in 92 so doing something great does not always mean a 10. Miller's floor routine had hard landings on each pass and easier tumbling and was lucky to get a 9.9.

[tmc8802]

and gutsu's floor should also have been significantly lower. the first pass should have been a .2-.3 deduction in itself. shannon had better lines, execution, artistry, and definitely deserved that title.

[AngieP2008]

I absolutely agree with you tmc8802!

[todosobretodo]

Not true. Miller's weakest beam routine at the Olympics came in the team optionals. Thoush she did have slight breaks in the all-around on both of her tumbling elements, they were extremely difficult. And she absolutely stuck her full in dismount. Her 9.925 was well deserved!!!

[grafgirl27]

No Miller's 9.925 on beam in the AA was a huge gift compared to Gutsu's score. Gutsu's tiny balance check and tiny step on the landing were smaller then Miller's 2 wobbles, and Gutsu had a much more difficult beam routine. If Gutsu was given the higher beam score like she should have it would not have even been closer. If Miller deserved a 9.925 on beam Gutsu deserved a 9.987 or something.

[todosobretodo]

I do not agree! The execution alone should have cost Gutsu more than 0.1, this in addition to the bobble and big step on the dismount. Shannon did wobble after each series (very slightly), but her form was MUCH MUCH better!! And she absolutely stuck her dismount!

[applepie708]

I agree. I just watched Miller's AA beam routine on youtube and the judges completely ignored two significant balance breaks. She should have scored a 9.725 on beam instead of a 9.925 if the appropriate deductions were taken. Thank god Miller didnt win over Gutsu, she was lucky enough to win AA silver with her beam score which turned a blind eye to her errors.

[gymnasticsforever95]

its 1992 scoring...what are you gonna do about it?? and tatianas floor was over scored...she came up short on all her passes and recieved a 9.912....i would have given it lke a 96 because it was so bad!

[audie83]

Gutsu did not come up short on ALL of her passes-your preference for Miller is blinding you to the fact that she stuck all but her first tumbling pass-and her first pass even today is nothing to sneeze at. Few gymnasts have performed the split-legged double layout back-why? Because it is tremendously difficult and only Gutsu had the guts to try it in 1992.

[gymnasticsforever95]

she did come up short on ALL her passes. first pass HUGE lunge forward. second pass step forward. last lading small step forward. if gutsus floor gotta 9.925 then millers shoul have got a 9.950!!!

[audie83]

No she did not-watch it again. She came up short on her FIRST pass and too ONE Step forward-that's it. She nailed her middle and final passes. Please point out her mistakes in those passes? Is is the CONTROLLED dance step in her middle pass which is allowed? She doesn't move her feet at all on her final pass so where do you see her coming up short there or in her middle pass? Nowhere.

[gymnasticsforever95]

i dont think the dance step after her second pass was aloud. i would of dducted it. and yeah i have to say, her last pass wasn't short, but it was the crappiest lnded/controlled full in piked ive ever seen. she couldnt do it like onodi if she tried

[beckerbombs]

You are such a liar. Gutsu had a mistake on her first tumbling pass on floor but stuck her other 2 cold. Miller had just as big a mistake on her 2nd pass as Gutsu on her 1st, and if anyone was close to being off on all 3 landings it was Miller who even took an exagerrated and hard lunge on the other 2, which were all easier passes then Gutsu to begin with. I would actually say if Gutsu deserved 9.925 on floor then Miller deserved 9.85.

[gymnasticsforever95]

what are you talking about? watch gutsus second pass again. the step forward. thats a sign of under rotation, it shouldve been a deduction. and millers one mistake shouldnt have cost her as much as it did.

[beckerbombs]

Miller's mistake shouldnt have cost her as much as it did!?!?! Miller got a 9.9 on floor. She didnt have anywhere near the tumbling difficulty of a few of the girls to begin with so that was already her top score. So she was in fact somehow deducted NOTHING for her big mistake on floor in fact. As I said her other two passes were closer to bad landings then Gutsu's other two passes to, but of course the judges ignored it. Miller was much luckier with her floor score then Gutsu.

[gymnasticsforever95]

no shannons floor routine was being scored out of a 10! it couldnt of been a 9.9 since the second pass was a slight deduction

[beckerbombs]

I am not talking about her start value. I am saying something in the 9.9 range was the best Miller was capable of on floor anyway. Just because your SV was 10 doesnt mean you wer egoing to get a 10. She wasnt good enough on floor to get a 10 since there were people like Bontas, Milosovici, Gutsu, and Onodi who were better on the event. So the fact she got a 9.9 means she was wrongfully not deducted at all for her big mistake on the 2nd pass since that is what her score was going to be anyway.

[gymnasticsforever95]

how much do you tink the seocnd pass should lose? like i know gutsu is a more dynamic gymnast but her first pass shouldve cost her more then shannons whole floorr routine!! being a dynamic gymnast doesn't afect anything

[beckerbombs]

I think under the much easier rules of the time Gutsu's first pass should have been half a tenth, and Miller's second pass should have been about half a tenth. I thought they were about equally bad to each other as a mistake. Miller is only worth about a 9.9 on floor even with a perfect routine so she should have scored a 9.85. Since she scored a 9.9 I found her overscored on floor. Gutsu is worth about a 9.975 with a perfect routne so a 9.925 was about right for her.

[TuesdayPillow]

Now that's just pure speculation. You are basing this solely on tumbling. A floor routine is - or at least WAS - more than just the tumbling. Shannon beat Gutsu in like and presentation by far. I think their floor routines should have scored 9.9 each.

[quirotmutolafan]

Miller's dance is nice but the "presentation" of her floor routine was in fact a bore. She showed no personality and chose boring violin music. Gutsu presented much better overall, showing more personality and entertainment, while also doing much harder and more powerful tumbling. Gutsu's floor score was about right but Miller's was really too high on that event for me too.

[TuesdayPillow]

Gutsu barely presented and looked like a mime directing traffic. I guess it's a matter of opinion there. But you have to admit, the mistake on her split leg double layout was pretty big.

[quirotmutolafan]

Well like you said presentation is a matter of taste. Miller's floor routine was much too prissy for my liking but to each their own.

Gutsu's mistake on the double layout pretty big? Well even by 95-96 scoring standards it would be, however scoring back then was pretty lenient. The top gymansts all scored 9.9+ on almost every routine, most of which were quite imperfect. Thank goodness they toughened up the scoring after that, since gymnasts as a whole were scoring much too close for a 10.

[alexandrite105]

gutsu had a balance break too, and didn't stick the dimount, so they should somewhat even out there in my opinion.

[alexandrite105]

miller and gutsu balanced each other out on beam because miller had two balance checks and gutsu had one and a step on the landing. and let's not forget that gutsu shouldn't have been in that competition anyway.

[alexandrite105]

gift nothing, gutsu had her own share of balance breaks and a step on the dismount so they evened out. except for the fact that gutsu shouldn't have even been there.

[muffycat26]

The sour grapes spew to this day from some of you. Both are great gymnasts. It was a close competition and Gutsu won. Whine whine away, nothing will change, and it wont suddenly became some Sale/Pelletier like scandal. Get over it.

[redsoxgirl0280]

gutsu had 2 slight wobbles and a step on the landing of her dismount off of beam...her double layout on floor was WAY short of rotation. any other gymnast would have received a tenth and a half deduction for the lunge forward...Gutsu's vault was okay, but Miller's should have been a 10.0 to give her the gold.

[gk891]

Miller was overscored as well (except on vault). Her BB routine had 2 significant wobbles, her UB routine had little amplitude, and her FX routine was kind of prissy (although Gutsu's wasn't much better albeit for very different reasons!).

[Darkangel127]

It's Gutsu, smarty, not Gutso! "She didn't deserve gold?" Should I remind you that she had E elements in all of her routines? What about her full back on the BB, or her double layout on FX? As much as I like Shanon Miller, Tatiana totally deserved to win the AA because she had more difficulty than any other gymnast and executed them brilliantly!

[whipback]

Tatiana was over scored in most of her routines.

[muffycat26]

Exactly. The womens field that year was incredible but Gutsu had the most difficulty of everyone on beam and floor imparticular. Except for 1 error on floor she executed them brilliantly as well. Her win was more then justified.

[todosobretodo]

I strongly disagree!

[datsrightbitches]

shannon miller pwned. gutso didnt deserve gold.

[msvague]

they were both good that year, but I have to say tatiana deserved the win....he performed and executed more difficult tricks.

[tramngu]

i agree. i am an american who was 19 when i watched this '92 olympics, and i was glad tatiana won. i think even an untrained eye could tell that she had greater difficulty and was a more dynamic gymnast. she also didn't have this air about her like she was entitled to the gold. americans are such greedy bastards; it's annoying. shannon was the best american gymnastic at the olympics, but not the best in the world.

[msvague]

Yup, yup! No doubt Shannon was the best American gymnast at the Olympics, but unfortunately not the best in the world. Gutsu was and won rightfully so.

[gymnastman919]

even though she shouldnt have competed there in the first place but........

[audie83]

But she did-so get over it. Let it go. Shannon took home 6 that is SIX Olympic medals. I am sure she is not holding any kind of grudge over that if she ever did. She seems to be a happy young lady, proud of what she achieved in gymnastics. And not at all bitter about being the first American to medal in the All-Around at a non-boycotted Olympics (Retton won her AA with the then top Soviets and third best East German team not in attendance with a pro-American crowd).

[alexandrite105]

it's true she has so much to be proud of, but that doesn't mean that she didn't want more, or that she shouldn't have gotten more. and i don't know i wouldn't be quick to say an olympian is okay with coming in second-best with the most coveted title in gymnastics when they should have won.

[KarenLovesGymnastics]

I fear Miller FANS care more about this than Miller herself. Leave Gutsu alone, don't be angry because she was the best and she won.

[audie83]

I agree. I've watched this competition several times over the years and really I feel overall-this is a sport and Gutsu had the harder tricks at the end of the day-maybe not so tidy but by 1992 beautiful lines seemed to be less, and less appreciated. They should comfort themselves in the knowldege that had their not been new life Miller would have won by a comfortable margin.

[KarenLovesGymnastics]

Gutsu was not as elegant as Miller on floor, butMilller's beam score was a complete joke. Gutsu had a better, more difficult routine and scored lower than Miller. And like Darkangel27 said she had E elements in all of her routines!

[audie83]

Agreed again. Just to pick out one of Tatiana's skills-I still remember watching Gutsu perform her standing full on beam-that was rather an awesome skill for the day. It reminded me of Olessia Dudnik's full-twisting near-layout back on beam. I think a standing full is maybe a bit more difficult because you don't get the momentum from the round-off or handspring depending how a gymnast approaches it-perhaps I'm wrong. The consecutive layouts that Miller did were pretty much stock by then.

[KarenLovesGymnastics]

I'm not a COP expert so I'm not sure which is harder, but I think you're right. Also the rulfova and the 3 backhandsrings to full- in her routine were also amazing.

[KarenLovesGymnastics]

Not to mention the standing full is still a very difficult sill today!

[beckerbombs]

You are so right. I like Miller but some of her fanatics on this site are downright sick. Dedicating their lives to 24/7 bitching about how she didnt win an event that happened 16 years ago, LOL! Gutsu is lucky she didnt compete in gymnastics after 92 and sit in a chair close to the stands. One of these psycho Miller fanatics probably would have stabbed her the way Seles was to clear the way for their beloved Miller.

[KarenLovesGymnastics]

LOL XD

[quirotmutolafan]

I like Miller but I am not surprised to hear of Miller fanatics out there. The Americans on this site seem to be fanatical to their own to the point they think bad form clowns Atler and Maloney are great gymnasts. So if they even think talentless nobodies from the U.S are great, then I would expect it is euphoria over an actual talentend and great U.S gymnast like Miller.

[SuperBodee1]

@quirotmutolafan ugh maloney.

[audie83]

Lol!!

[alexandrite105]

gutsu did anything but win rightfully so. she should not have been in the all-around competition. she didn't qualify, and even if she had she was too young (her age was lied about) so she shouldn't have been at the olympics in the first place!