Book of Mormon geography, New World

[zatokk]

Such a Fantastic video....... So what was Zelph doing in Illinois then? Oh shucks, im sure its likely he just wandered off a few thousand miles.

[GmaM11]

Boy, have things changed since I was active. We were told there were a couple million people either spread all over the Americas or there were a couple million people within a small distance. If that is the case....where are the artifacts: A battle between million's of people, cities, artifacts. Emblem cliffs? How is that connected to anything Biblical. It is all fiction. Of course, it is not a Nephite city because there were no Nephites!

[harvestsoulfly]

Beating a dead horse. Get away NOW!!!

[rah01kah]

So you're telling me, that a segment of Isrealites left Jerusalem traveled all the way down the tip of Africa, sailed across the Atlantic and missing all the easier places to land, weaved their way to that isthmus.......COME ON!!!!!

[omiolo]

Why We Forgive

Stunning and moving analysis on why we must forgive. Don't miss it.

By Terry Warner

[omiolo]

While matters of the heart cannot be forced, yet hearts can be prepared to gain a deep and abiding testimony, said Elder H. Burke Peterson. In the Sunday afternoon session, Elder Peterson of...

[omiolo]

Sister Lant expressed confidence that the Web site activities "can be very helpful in creating a reverent atmosphere and having the children engaged in things that are meaningful during that time and be together as a family while they're doing it. They're doing those things, they're watching conference, and they're feeling the Spirit together."

[exmoagogo]

They might as well be looking for Middle Earth......

[TrueChurchLDS]

you might as well throw yourself off a cliff.

[crowofdeath2]

that shows the true LDS ways

[staylr0027]

Interesting piece. I would like to see one of the Fair Mayan experts address the problem of needing phonetic clues to read most of the proper names found in the glyphs including the names of gods, etc. Isn't that why we can't interpret about 20% of the glyphs extant, lack of phonetic clues?

[fairldsorg]

We'll have a full length video, which is currently being edited, that deals with that issue. Since we have only excavated .5% of the cities down there, can't read most of the names of the cities, can't read a lot of the writings that date to BOM times, etc... it makes it more difficult to gather evidence. But we have found several indicating factors which seem to show that the BOM is right on.

[fairldsorg]

For more videos like these, go to FAIRs channel at youtube dot com/user/fairldsorg

[livy111us]

There will be a few videos on byutv called Journey of Faith, and Journey of Faith: The New World which go over many evidences of The Book of Mormon.

Go to byutv dot org. click on top programs on the left and it will give you the dates and times of the showing.

[livy111us]

God knows all and will tell you it is true. That is the most important evidence. God does not lie, but will lead you to truth. There are very few claims out there that ask you to ask God if they are true. Only one that is confident that you will receive an answer. The Spirit of God will tell you that The Book of Mormon is true. What greater witness can you have than that?

[MormonNegro]

Study self-deception. Baptists and Moonies and Catholic mystics also become converted by their personal magical methods. Wake up cult-member.

[TrueChurchLDS]

only bigots call us Cultists or NOT christian. Wake UP, MormonNegro.

Funny the Anti-Christians of the days of the ancient original 12 apostles used the same arguments against the Latter Day Saints in this last dispensation.

fairlds . org

for the truth

[fudley2003]

A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.

[livy111us]

The trail which they took (Frankincense) has been found to be the one which they took.

There are dozens and dozens of parallels between events in The Book of Mormon and Mesoamerica.

The Book of Mormon has been found to contain numerous Hebraisms, stylistic structure, poetry, etc... which show it to have origins in ancient Israel.

There is genetic evidence of a migration from the Middle East to the area of the Maya. But most importantly, you can pray to know if it is true.

[livy111us]

On top of the Bountiful evidence, there has been found numerous parallels between Mesoamerica and The Book of Mormon.

Same population increases and declines in both

Same Movements of people in both

Same geography

Same geological events

all which were unknown in Joseph Smiths time

Nahom (1 Nephi 16:34) has been found in the right place, with the right name, in th righ time period. River of Laman valley of Lemuel (1 Nephi 2:2-11) have been found.

[digestezine]

angola In 1820 a mail route was established between Buffalo and Olean, and a post office was opened at Springville. Two years later a post office designated" Angola" was opened at Taylor Hollow near Gowanda.

[livy111us]

So you are saying that Joseph took the name from a post office, not a town, in the middle of nowhere, in the town of Taylor Hollow? The city Angola didn't even exist then. It was not named until 1855 when John Andrus, and influential man in Evans Station transferred the Post office to there, which is where the name came from.

[digestezine]

there was a post office named Angola in 1822, my opinion, Joseph Smith had a lot of help with the BOM, including from a preacher that traveled

[fairldsorg]

You are right. There was ONE small post office about 120 miles away, in the middle of nowhere, named Angola. Doesn't seem to convincing that he would even know about it.

[digestezine]

The name may be related to the fact that a majority of the residents in Taylor Hollow were Quakers who being missionary-minded helped to support Angola, Africa, as one of their projects.

In 1855 John Andrus, an infuentiall and owner in Evans Station, made application to have the "Angola" Post Office transferred here from Taylor Hollow.

[digestezine]

Where in the BOM does it state that there are two Hill Cumorah ?

[livy111us]

Ether 15:11, Mormon 6:4-6

[Outlaw1257]

According to The Office of The First Presidency of The LDS Church, in a letter to Bishop Darrel L. Brooks, Moore Ward, South Stake, Moore Oklahoma. (73160)

October 16, 1990

"The Church has long maintained, as attested to by references in The Writings of The General Authorities, that the Hill Cummorah in Western New York state IS THE SAME as referenced in The Book of Mormon".

[livy111us]

You should read his follow-up letter. He was speaking of his own thoughts and not the Churchs:

"The Church emphasizes the doctrinal and historical value of the Book of Mormon, not its geography. While some Latter-day Saints have looked for possible locations and explanations [for Book of Mormon geography] because the New York Hill Cumorah does not readily fit the Book of Mormon description of Cumorah, there are no conclusive connections between the Book of Mormon text and any specific site"

[digestezine]

11 And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did hide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred Ether 15:11

please explain how this states that there are 2 Hill Cumorahs ?

[livy111us]

Ramah is the hill where the sacred records were hid, which, according to Mormon 6:6, is the same hill. Ramah and Cumorah are the same.

Mormon 6:6 says that all the records were hid in Cumorah except for the records given to Moroni which he carried for 36 years and recording on them, until he buried them in New York.

[digestezine]

If the Hill Cummorah is in New York and a Indian tribe from New York is named after a Laminite Prophet, do you place the lands of the Book of Mormon in New York ? if not , why?

[livy111us]

I believe there were migrations northward from Mesoamerica, and evidence supports that.

[digestezine]

It says nothing in Onandaga history about Laminites, how can you explain this?

[livy111us]

It also says nothing about a crossing from a land bridge either.

[digestezine]

4 miles south of Palmyra NY is Hill Cumorah, Zelph a white lamanite was a warrior who fought under the prophet "ONANDAGUS" slightly east of Palmyra is "ONANDAGA COUNTY"

[livy111us]

Onandaga county is named after the Indians there. Who were the Indians named after?

[digestezine]

so you are saying that Onandaga county is named after a Laminate Prophet, is that correct?

and the Indians who lived in this area took their name from this Laminite prophet, is that correct?

[livy111us]

It is a possibility

[digestezine]

could the Land of Minon (alma 2:15, 24) be in Ontario county NY which was inhabited by the Minonion Indians ?????? if you place the BOM in a great lake setting it matches up quite well

[livy111us]

They have found ancient mesoamerican sites which are called "Bountiful" (Alma 22:31), on in particular got it's name from another city across the ocean also called Bountiful (1 Nephi 17:5)

[digestezine]

Where is your proof of that statement? and where in Meso America is that found ? precise location please.And also proof that itt was named after a city across the ocean, where across the ocean? proof please.

[livy111us]

Reynaud¹s translation of The Annals of the Cakchiquels

[livy111us]

Found at Pan'chalib and Tabasco

[digestezine]

Concerning Reynaud¹s translation of The Annals of the Cakchiquels Allen Christenson notes that "most of the scriptural material [of the writings of Totonicpán] was taken directly from a Christian tract, the Theologia Indorum, written in 1553 by a Spanish priest named Domingo de Vico. Thus, apparent references in Mesoamerican texts to events known from the Bible cannot always be taken seriously

[livy111us]

Perhaps you should finish reading the article you cut and pasted this from. You may find some interesting material.

[livy111us]

The Thologia Indorum was parts of the Bible translated into Mayan. While some parts of Popul Vuh reflect that, nowhere does the Bible speak about a land Bountiful in the Old World, or a trans-oceanic voyage with Bountiful in the new.

[digestezine]

Concerning Reynaud¹s translation of The Annals of the Cakchiquel livy111us stated "Perhaps you should finish reading the article you cut and pasted this from. You may find some interesting material"

mY rEPLY I found this article on the LDS Farms WEBSITE

[livy111us]

Exactly. You should finish reading the article because it give parallels between The Book of Mormon and Mesoamerica

[digestezine]

sorry i have seen the work of farms, it is hard to belive they are educated people,

[fairldsorg]

They are a group of scholars who have Masters and PhD's, who publish in both LDS and non-LDS scholarly journals. They are scholars. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't change that.

[digestezine]

and what about Minon ?

[livy111us]

Coincidence in names doesn't prove anything

[digestezine]

Could the city of Angola (mormon 2:4) be the city of Angola NY located west of the waters of sidon (Genesee river) the town was incorporated in 1855 but according to maps prior to the BOM was known as angola farms

[livy111us]

reference please

[digestezine]

map of New York circa 1800 New York Library

[livy111us]

a little more specific. A link to the map would be great, with evidence of it being in that library as well

[livy111us]

Something got messed up. I guess you'll have to match the argument to the answer.

[digestezine]

Could Gideon (mosiah 20:17-21) be modled after Chief Tadeuskund of Lehigh county Pa (land of Lehi)

[livy111us]

Both Gideon and Lehigh are Hebrew names, which would have been carried over. Any migration would take names with them

[digestezine]

Could the city of TEANCUM (mormon 4:3 Alma chapters 50-62) be the city of TECUMseh located in the land north (canada) near the sea west (lake erie)

[livy111us]

Tecumseh did not get it's name until nearly a hundred years after The Book of Mormon was in print

[digestezine]

Could the city of Angola (mormon 2:4) be the city of Angola NY located west of the waters of sidon (Genesee river)

[livy111us]

Angola didn't get it's name until 1855, over 20 years after The Book of Mormon was already in print

[digestezine]

yes the town was incorporated at that time but it was known as Angola before that

[digestezine]

Could the Hill Ramah (ether 15:10-11) be near Lake Simcoe Ontario canada where the Rama Indians lived ??????

[livy111us]

Ramah is an Old Testament name. Which would be consistent for those from that area to name their cities after former ones.

[digestezine]

Could the river sidon be the Genesee river in NY which flows south to north and empties into lake Ontario (sea east) alma 50:11

[livy111us]

Or it could be the Grijalva, which matches the description in The Book of Mormon with detail:

[livy111us]

go to bomgeography dot poulsenll dot org

[digestezine]

could the Land of Minon (alma 2:15, 24) be in Ontario county NY which was inhabited by the Minonion Indians ??????

[digestezine]

could the narrow neck of land (alma 22:32)be between Lake Ontario (sea east) and Lake Erie (sea west) ?????

Joseph Smith was from Palmyra NY

[livy111us]

Could be in Mesoamerica as well, which match MUCH better to The Book of Mormon

[funnrun]

I believe, I believe, I believe, ?? Where is the

the fact with out blind faith

[livy111us]

Rom. 1:17--"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."

Beside the point that God can tell you by the Spirit, there is much more. But what more do you need?

[funnrun]

You faith is in a Man. My faith is in God.

You will live your whole life defending Joe. The facts are in and it shows that the DNA & Archaeological Evidence prove Joe made it up.

Joe had no idea what 2008 looked liked, he thought it was the end of time and it's not even close. Joe was about Sex, Money & Power, in that order.

[nathanielmacrae]

If what FAIR say is true, that the civilisations existed within the Meso-american area, why would the Lamanites and Nephites travel thousands upon THOUSANDS of miles to do battle in up-state New York? - which J.Smith claims that the battle took place? Was J.Smith not acting 'prophetically' when he claimed THAT?

[livy111us]

Perhaps you should read up on LDS scholarship on the subject. Straw men are easy to tear down.

[nathanielmacrae]

would it be ok to say that the whole LDS church is one big straw man? Which is why it's pretty easy to tear down? Put it another way, would you be able to point me to a good independent research paper that points to the existence of Lamanite/Nephite society, void of LDS bias?

[livy111us]

There has always been opposition to Christs Church, so comments like these are nothing new.

Not to many non-Mormons have interest in The Book of Mormon or it's geography. Just as not to many athiests have interest in Biblical geography

[elfwizard1975]

Don't you know that everything Joseph smith says is prophecy, except when it doesn't fit the big lie? Didn't he also say he found a skeleton with an arrow in its ribs just a few feet below the ground in New York, knew the dead mans name and everything said he was a nephite warrior.

[nathanielmacrae]

I thought this video is meant to show evidence FOR the BoM?

[livy111us]

No it was not. A future version will show evidence.

[nathanielmacrae]

Ah, thank you. I'm really looking forward to it!  And what would be even more interesting would be to see how LHM respond...oh, the drama continues.. =)

[livy111us]

That won't happen again, I'll let the comments go without censure, to a point.

[HiveRadical]

No. Because Zelph was a remnant Lamanite. There is such a thing as migration. Just because BoM narrative was limited doesn't mean Lamanites didn't spread beyond the context given in the Book of Mormon. In fact history, and other claims about the fate of the remnants, rather indicate that there was varying degrees of dispersion.

[ElderJoseph]

Hive,who are you responding to here ?

[HiveRadical]

It appears that maxpixel's posts were deleted. But that's who I was initially responding to. He was asking both where the the box that held the Book of Mormon was and he was trying to set up Joseph's words about Zelph as being contradictory to the Church's present stance. I was just pointing out that he was misreading.

It appears that livy111us deleted his comments.

[HiveRadical]

It was known to have been washed down the hill and has not been seen since.