Yeah, man. It sounds like a groundbreaking & revolutionizing undertaking of perhaps unequaled importance. So at what level are you in your research? Are you asking for money here? Funding to conduct your research? I'd like to hear how you propose to organize and conduct these studies. Hey.. I'm sold. Yeah. Let's do it. Now.... HOW? Set it up. Stop talking about it (unless you're trying to raise money for it) and goddamn DO IT already.
@drgoldteef The word argument has more than one meaning. It can simply be a coherent series of statements leading from a premise to a conclusion. This lecture certainly contains an argument in this sense of the word.
@MrMZaccone Thank you for clearing that up with your enlightening message. You're about 4 months late to the conversation, though. To get you up to speed: There are two ways to determine someone's argument. You can, A) Watch the f_king video yourself, or B) Ask someone else to watch it for you in the comments section
@hasnain26 - Argument? In this lecture, all he's saying that you don't need religion or God to find out whether a moral decision is right or wrong. We just need our brains.
elitism means that truth and logic should adopt a new set of values that are based on personal appreciation of special people that definition lies outside of universal truth, or universal reason. It justifies sujective thinking based on definitive terms. terms defined by the ELite with no regard to truth. These are the people who need to be killed.
If the elite were the best to do what they make exclusively their right, (that's all democrats and liberals do. priding themselves on making everything putrid) but if they actually were the best, we would be in world properity and world peace. no, they do the opposite. that's why the world is derpress and going to be be in war.
elitism is when the ones do not innovate and progress the world reap the rewards. This is why we have shitty things everywhere. this is why we will have civil war. the crimminal is stealing everything, but doing nothing to make it better world, therefore people will fight. elitism is causeing that.
this guy is a string of false myths that you all take as truth, the delusionaly ones are proven to be these people. Look at the audience. this guy is thinking for them and they are totally brain dead. he spun off false statement after false statement. proven false.All the religious are based on reason .these people have no idea what he's saying. Btw, he's saying, the elite should have no restriction on how they treat the non elite. and that the selfish dishonest people deserve to be the elite.
that is what he is saying. He's saying, the selfish and dishonest make the world progress. But this is a lie. The soviets or the old world artisotracy, was shit on shit compared to the freedom of america.
The atheist said: Religious people are weak and this was the response: Don't freacken call me weak? The reason I am not going to put a bullet in your head is because I respect God. But I still can choose to put seven bullets in your head just to show you, you do not mess with God... Nay, No psychologist is going to convince me not to do what God tells me not to do.
@patrickledford420 I was just alluding to the fact that I wasn't really looking to learn then all of a sudden it was learning time. Also I really appreciate how you were concerned for my feelings. You sir are a gentleman. The interweb could use more patrickledford420's. Good day to you.
@VALEendGIANT this peice of shit evil jew thing said that the only thing religons share in common is that they have no application whatsoever for reason or science in determining morality. This guy should is smart enough to know he sent a hunk of total shit down you idiot throats. That complete utterly evil of him to lie like that, and you people swallow it. His agenda is to have humanity deprived of dignity where the elite do anything to the non elite. Pure evil.
@nVei06 Elitism is a necissity in attempting to find the 'best' direction of progression. Without Elitism any hastily thrown together theory would have to be treated as equal to a heavily investigated and evidentially supported theory, this is idiocy my friend.
@dan012345 No, that;s a bunch of bullshit. Sam harriss should be burned alive. that is progress. the elite pride themselves on their corrupt thinking. they disable progress, excellence, eficiency, justice, and then literally sam hariss determines that is intrinsic to progress. He even likes to mention he feel dishonest people are evolutionary in their selfish dishonest ways. Their dishonestly produces excellence in life standards. he's so unscientific, that make sense to him. yeah ok.
@dan012345 Idiot, ELITISM is saying the privelleged class should have rights and dignities the poor, or abused class do not. Don't listen to this shit tool. ELITISM is nothing asside from that. idiot
@nVei06 You are simply misinformed. Elitism is the belief that some individuals who hold particular attributes are those whose views should be taken more seriously on a subject. Although this could be seen as the 'upper classes' opinions being more important, which I disagree with, it also means that those who are better qualified and practiced in a particular field have more imput into subjects of that field. In that way it is necissary.
Some peoples opinions SHOULD be taken over others
@dan012345 no, elitism means they think, that a certain group has not rights than others. IT wouldn't be elitism if they were merely looking at the best ideas. That is not elitism. They are saying, 'goodness of the idea' is based on who is coming up with the idea, NOT, what the idea is. That is elitism. OThers views are wrong. YOu are wrong. should be killed.
@bstse this guy said nothing intelligent. he said all religions have nothing in common. (that's what he said since the one thing he said they have in common is not what religious people belive. ) if you take the religion of moses, christians, hindus, muslims, you'll find they have almost everything in common. sam harri is a peice of evil. he shoul dbe burned alive. this is true. he didn't make a mistake, he's just trying to convince you of something that he knows is not true. he's trash.
I could barely disagree more with Sam Harris. The notion not only there is objective truth in ethics but that we eventually can know this Truth, is naive, unreflected and I would say stems from Harris' scientistic overriding paradigm.
The cock-sureness of Harris is showing of dogmatism, which is stiff and boring in Harris' case.
"As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. ...And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. " Adolf Hitler
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It is false to say that religions think science is uninvolved in morality - it is precisely the opposite. The Catholic Church teaches that science proves there is a God.
Did you see Expelled? The top evolutionists in the world can only say the "life began on the backs of a crystal" but cannot say WHERE the crystal came from. Science and Faith are married - they coexist dependent on eachother.
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I am a christian and I believe that Science proves that there is a God and so do alot of christians who goes to the university that I go too. Since I am not roman catholic that point is not nullified...
so you mean, that your interpetation of scientific information proves god.
i would suggest that it is in fact your awe with the implications or misunderstandings of scientific discoveries, which is beyond your level of understanding which leads you and others like you, to tack on god as the explaination.
Since an Evolutionist is by definition NOT a Quantum Dynamicist,why would it be incumbent on one to entertain a conundrum of First Cause? Does one seek answers pertinent to the spin of bosons from a Zoologist?
Expelled had many falsehoods in it, there are many videos here on youtube that debunk it, some better than others. Absence of knowledge doesn't confirm the existance of god, only that we don't have the answer yet.
hopokuk: I'm an atheist through and through, but your comment was quite unnecessary... In fact, comments like these only reinforce the fears that Americans have about atheists, that we will destroy their churches and pass laws to prevent them from praying. We can stridently disagree with the opinions of the religious, but I'm not sure active desecration of what they hold dear takes us anywhere.
I understand you. It drives me absolutely nuts sometimes that people are convinced that faith can provide them with the deepest truths - truths that they can then impose upon everyone else... But then I take a deep breath and count to 10 :-)
False CV08, Yahweh was a tribal god among many gods, like Baal, an YHWH was an invented angry volcano god.
The superstitious bronze age people did not understand the world around them and explained natural disasters around them with oral explanations of supernatural occurances that they later recorded with the invention of writing.
These people did not know any better and are as still as dumb now as they were then.
false, ChristianVoice08. again! one doesnt wonder anymore!
that opinion is based on the same premises that are just as opinion and unprovable but make jesus into g0d. only the methodology applied is different.
since you cant prove there is a god or that jesus is a g0d, the "illegitimate hypothesis" makes much more sense when speculating about historicity of jesus.
natural hypotheses make more sense than supernatural. as well, you refuse to test yourself. but you have faith! but you refuse!
A naturalistic explanation could be that the Hebrews could see the smoke from a huge volcanic eruption hundreds of miles away that looked like a pillar of fire at night.
I saw a programme about it on NationalGeo. a Greek island erupted about 1300BC I think.
And monkey's could fly out of my colon, Hop. Facts not in evidence. You are selling us assumptions based on opinioon supported by speculation. That only proves my prior assertion, you are rejecting known facts based on bias driven assumption conveniently made to rule out the real history and account of Judaism and Christianity. I don't know how further to respond to such blind allegiance to error and bias, such brain washing...
what real history are you talking about, ChristainVoice08? the mythical, mystical account? well, why is it called mythical, mystical? i wonder.
your "reality refusal faith" is truly exceptional, cousin. youre talking about biblical histories as facts, yet they havent been verified through science. on the contrary, most of them were rather disproved. just like the creation myth, flood myth, ancient hebrew myth, and of course the whole jesus the mashiah, son of man with the clouds of heaven myth.
Modern science was founded by theists? SO WHAT? 99% of the people alive were theists, so they were the only people there to do the job. It's like saying only ancient Mongolians were the only men capable of inventing the arrow. Well, get over it - they happened to be the ones to do it, but only because of chance. Someone else would have mad that technological advance.
This is tantamount to claiming that NO further science will be advanced by non-theists, which of course is patently false.
I misread neurtheology. I thought you wrote neurology. There is no such thing as neurotheology and neurology still can't account for its own researchers cognitive abilities. Further, it denies the rational minds of the researchers and calls ALL thinking and sanity into question in its blind assent to scientific naturalism.
Religions don't purport to be science and solely based on empirical data. Science that goes beyond the data is religion! You just refuted your own sources, Hop. Also, as for your bogus claim about Tal Brooke, he was not a Christian when he studied under Sai Baba. If you knew anything about his writings or read any of his works, you would have known that. Either way ALL men have biases and presuppositions. Ergo Christians can't be dismissed for that
The consequence of atheism is nihilism. the consequence of anti-theism is disease and biological failure, as in the decline of western populations. I say let the anti-theists abort their children and die off. Its not the job of believers to force them to change their ways of life. (in a secular regime under G_ds law we can save the chilren and raise them to hate their would be killers).
Eco, God does not allow for the hating of ANYONE. Yahweh only allows for the hatred of sin and evil. He calls us to love even our enemies and to feed and clothe our enemies in their suffering. THough He commands that we prepare to defend ourselves with force of arms, it is defense not hatred that pulls the trigger.
Bull, Hop. Christmas is a Catholic pagan high day based on the old cult of Mithras who was legendarily born on Dec 25th. I have not wished ANYONE a Merry Christmas here that I know of. I do not celebrate Christmas myself. And, NO ONE is forcing you to celebrate anything! Still True Christians will not force you to do anything except the cessation of hostilities or the violation of their God-given rights in America. Your claim is blatantly & patently false.
I agree it was already a pagan holiday. Not just Mithras but many gods shared that day as birthday.
There has been no hostilities or violation of rights from me. It would not surprise me at all if a Christians in US was a gun-touting looney.
Check the statistics, the most violent countries are the countries where there is strong belief in abrahamic god. Why don't you have universal free medical health care in America?
False, Hop. Only Mithras had that birthday. If you tie dammuzzi or tammuz to mithras, then, they become one cult with a common god of two names. So, no, there arent many gods with the same celebrated birthday. Zeitgeist is a crock not fact.
As for your war claim, it is false. Muslims have the highest theistic kill rates after communist atheist countries & they DO NOT worship the Christian God. Your claim is false based on false premises based on a lack of knowledge of religion.
There is no 13th book in Lanctitius, DI! Cite a legitimate source. I use encyclopedias and books on mythology. You might try some scholarly study instead of false quotes.
In peasant folklore many gods had there mythological birthdays celebrated on the Winter Solitice :- Jesus, Attis, Buddha, Dionysus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra 25th December.
FALSE, Hop. Horus and krishna were NOT celebrated on Dec. 25th. IT was the mithraic cult of Rome that picked that date and incorporated it into the Catholic tradition in a successful attempt to marry mithraism with paganized Christianity. Cite a legitamate source for such a lie! You can look up the mthraic cult & christmas in the Encyclopedia of Demonology or cults and verify my facts. Do you even know what a reference section or library is???
Of all the Western Secular countries the most violent society is the US and it also the country that has the most people that profess belief in the Christian God. Also divorse, adultery, abortion and inequality between rich and poor is the worse.
Ummm, New Year has NOTHING to do with Christianity, Hop. PLEASE, do some studying and learn history and common knowledge. If our new year were tied into religion, we would be celebrating New Year according to the Jewish calendar. The more you post, the more you lack of education becomes apparent.
Yes but not as much as Jesus of Nazareth changed history. No world religion can make that claim. How does a "cult" change the entire world when the evidence could have disproved it?
Islam has not changed the world, Mormonism has not changed the world, but, you want us to believe that Jesus is a myth like those cults yet he changed the course of human history? No fictional character has EVER been able to boast that. You can't fool everyone & I'd say the same of multiple civilizations!
all religion has a place in history even the ones that are long gone. it has affected us (humans)evolve. maybe some other religions besides Christianity hasn't affected you as much, but how can you think they haven't affected the world as a whole. the christian religion has affected more people than any other, but it doesn't make it true. just because the majority believe it doesn't mean it is accurate.truth isn't in numbers
Look how the cult of Mormon grew from a handful of followers to 13 million adherents in just 170 years.
Look how the Cargo Cults (heard of cargo cults) sprung up in just 60.
So imagine what a cult can become given 2000 years.
Yes I suppose a historical teacher and cult leader called Yeshua may have existed, but it is patently that much that has been written about him can be dismissed as legend.
Cults grow fast but don't change the world, Hop. Islam in all its efforts to evangellize by the sword like Catholicism has failed to have the same impact on history as the Historical Jesus and His true followers.
Your comparison fails to refute my argument regarding the positive impact and absolute alterations of the history of man and the western world by Jesus, God Who entered His creation and walked the earth.
Hop, you're blind. NO ONE is persecuting you. If we were, you wouldn't have a voice. Try shouting against the Catholic church in Spain and you'll see persecution. America still allows free voice to everyone even the minorities like yourself. No one has ignored you either. We have reviewed the leading atheist arguments and post here to let you know that we have listened and identified the errors & are willing to dialog w/you. If hearing an opposing view offends you,then, YOU are the fascist!
You think you have problems. I live in Britain. Mass immigration from the islamic world outbreeding us. 'multi-culturalism' , 'multi-faith' , and the next King charles 'defender of faith' he's a muslim or might as well be.
As for communism that does not fit naturalistic humanistic principles.
I understand & worry for you there in the UK. Canada is also overwhelmed by muslims. We are trying to educate people here in America that sharia law naturally follows the rise to power of muslims. But the political correctness movement here is trying to silence us. I may soon be arrested in the US for my public speaking against the intolerance of the "tolerant" ones despite our Constitutional acknowledgment that freedom and free speech are God given rights and unalienable.
you can't be arrested for speaking up against someone, and the political correctness movement is doing no such thing. they are trying to silence those in government, not the people. you can say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean the government can. they have to be politically correct, because if they weren't then they wouldn't be acting fair.this isn't a majority rules country.
It is true that when Muslim populations grow in size in Western secular countries they want to have their own Sharia laws separate from the laws of the country.
The UN was set up to protect human rights not to protects religions.
i was rather thinking of satanic as a possible synonym for evil, but surely, gullible religious people, especially theists, whether mono or poly, might tend to believe that, just like our cousin CV08 demonstrates...
i see ChristianVoice08, you are again applying your deficient logical skills. quote me where i claimed within the context of this specific debate that shaytan was god. im very eager to see that quote...
you are applying a common straw man distraction only, thusly the weight of your rhetorics squibs away, just like the jinn from a broken flask...
"you are applying a common straw man distraction only, thusly the weight of your rhetorics squibs away, just like the jinn from a broken flask..."
What??? more denials without refutation. If I hear "strawman" again without a legitimate evidence of a strawman argument from me, I am going to ignore the ignorant denial as I hope will others.
what? where did i claim satan was god? you made this claim that i allegedly made. you cant prove that, thus its very likely you have misrepresented one of my claims about "shaytanic" being used a possible synonym for "evil". the connection to mono and polytheism comes through the likelihood that believers following those religious streams will recognize shaytan as the evil.
you are in heavy denial. you show exceptional lack of rhetorical logical skills...
No, Chris, luciferian doctrine does not call him evil as a noun or equivalent. Christian monotheism does not teach that either & has NOTHING in common with polytheism. YOU are the one using strawman arguments.
haha... im not talking about luciferians. thats something for you. so again another straw man of yours.
christian doctrine teaches satan is the lord of this world. "it" must be evil since it tries to pull over jesus to its side. as well "it" tries to deceive the "good" christians through "trickery", blah, blah, blah.
there are polytheist religions that have similar characters like satan. thats all. A GENERALIZATION. if you didnt understand that, then you have a serious problem...
Hop, you are a fool! You cannot say what someone else has really seen and touched when YOU weren't there! You are insulting veracible sources who had PhD's not high school GEDs. Any evidence of the supernatural that you see, you are going to try and ad hominem into thin air. You reject the truth. You will reject ALL evidence to hold to your brain washed religion.
yeah ChristianVoice08, they all have phds and yet they cant demonstrate what they "teach". you know what? such phds are worth not more than toilet paper.
you still havent provided the "truth". any naturalist has the naturally given right through applying reason to strongly dismiss your bogus claims. you claim the suspension of the "laws" but never demonstrate anything. you relate to shaytanic powers, but are easily exposed through one little vid. where is the evidence? here?
They cannot demonstrate the power that they witnessed because they are not POSSESSED. Read "riders of the Cosmic Circuit". Superpossession is a discussed demonic condition. Possession is a commonly recognized condition not some mystical magical state unproven. I have watched videos on Reputable News Programs showing demonic miracles. I have witnessed individuals with superhuman shtrength. Go watch a voodoo ceremony for yourself. QUIT quoting others. Do some real research, chris.
"They cannot demonstrate the power that they witnessed because they are not POSSESSED."
this is nonsense, ChristianVoice08. the bible (NT) doesnt say you have to be POSSESSED when asking for healing or requiring protection from poison. all it requires is having faith and eventually a summoning of more believers.
"QUIT quoting others. Do some real research, chris."
HA! you dont like when i come up with peer reviewed studies. you want me to engage in pseudoscience and crackpotery like you do!
You are haughty and that is your hubris. You only need to repeat and test any event that may appear to be supernatural and you will find that it is in fact entirely naturalistic. In all cases evidences for the supernatural amounts to nothing more than anecdotes.
Hop, you just prove my point. You don't want to know God. You hate Him and no ammount of evidence will change your mind. Your desire is to ignore God at all costs. I leave you to your delusions. 2000 years of history is alll a lie... Modern science wasn't founded by theists...Atheism was always the predominant world view despite its irreconcilable internal contradictions...Go back to sleep...
Don't post to me anymore & I will leave you alone.
Atheism is on the rise in Europe as a result of modernism and war. But, on a greater ground swell is neo-paganism & Islam. So, the current popularity of atheism in areas of Europe will soon subside and merge into a disgusting neo-pagan religious movement that will absorb atheists as they become disillusioned with the spiritual vacuum of atheism & science degrades into religion finally embracing the supernatural through Dharmic laws of eastern mysticism & "experiments" proving the immaterial...
QUOTE-...new science of Neurotheology will weed out the problem.
Ah, here it is...the pope & his ring again. I knew we would get another promise of evidence that MAY one day arise as long as we hum the mantra & blindly follow the mystics of the modern religion, science. Let us don our white lab coats & blindly hope that the evidence that refutes naturalism will one day be explained away by discoveries made by scientific naturalism. Sad when you accuse us of such blindness, Hop!
Hop, you are simply dismissing the evidence without excuse or reason as you can't refute it or explain it away. That is ignorance of the highest order. I am wasting time on a brain washed naive follower and not a free thinker who will reject God if Jesus appeared to you tomorrow. You have decided that you hate God and are just fabricating a tapestry of deception to hide behind.
If astronauts found the 10 Commandments written in huge letters on the dark side of the moon and it radiodated to 4 billion years or more, and was verified not a hoax, that would strong evidence for Jehovah (or aliens).
I've been to several English cathedrals, they are like lit up caverns with statues, iconography, and graves. God is not there. God is not on the hills or in the fields and woods either. God is in books and the minds of believers, like a concept.
Scientific laws are DESCRIPTIVE not PRESCRIPTIVE. They show that during man's observation certain things occur. It is your theoretical physicists trying to explain away logic & God who say when you study X, you alter X and therefore you can't trust your results. Christians say because God is logical, He created a logical universe where 2+2 ALWAYS =4! You don't get that certainty from the philosophy of scientific naturalism. It hides an unproved premise in it's title denying God w/o evidence.
They never change their view as the philosophy precludes theism by a hidden premise of atheism in the definition. And even if it didn't, science is the study of the natural world not the supernatural universe. Ergo, they'll never consider theism. Try again, Hop.
Science shows that in all trials we have found X results. It does NOT disprove that roughly 2000 years ago, Y may have happened. Science is not history, logic or math. Biological sciences are about understanding biology and the common usual results of biological processes. No one has ever disproved the eyewitness accounts of the New Testament because no one was there. Those of us including doctor who have seen actual miracles cannot disprove prior miracles that defy natural law.
Provide the genetic sequence for migratory patterns or homing navigation in animals. You are full of it, Hop. Genes DON'T code for information such as memory or instinct.
What do you think geneticists study. You are appealing to a gap. scientists could easily study that funding, time, and faster technology is still needed.
The migratory patterns are genetically coded into the neurocircuitry.
No, Hop. NO such finding from genetics has been made. Please, cite a study if there is one. Your fallacy is similar to an argument from ignorance with a twist. But, it's still arguing facts NOT in evidence.
"Facial Expression Of Emotion Is Hardwired Say Scientists"
medicalnewstoday,com/articles/134190,php
"Spontaneous Facial Expressions of Emotion in Congenitally and Non-Congenitally Blind Individuals".
David Matsumoto and Bob Willingham.
Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Vol. 96, No.1, January 2009."
"warmly" recommended, ChristianVoice08. another of your world views destroyed. the actual study will be published just in a few days or perhaps hours... :)
What is it about your religion that makes you feel the need to go to places where you know atheists and other heathen are going to be, and crank on about Jesus and the Bible until the cows come home?
Is it because you have brainwashed yourself into believing that you can win a closer seat next to Christ in paradise by "saving souls".
To do otherwise is to err intentionally applying a bias against the NT that we do not hold against any other ancient writing of that genre & style. On the other hand if we hold this false rule against the NT, then, to be even and honest we have to throw out the majority of the records from the antiquities including Plato's Republic as we have no proof that it in any way represents the genuine text of Plato w/only 6 copies extant. If we throw out all the other accounts, we knoe nothing of history
yes, we apply a "bias", but this "bias approach" called scientific inquiry is the best approach we have ever had. in other words, there is simply not a better one, unless and until you can provide for one. have you already published your studies? no? how come?
your claim here is just a continuation of your straw man argument we find in your previous claim.
the whole point is, you claim the extraordinary, so deliver the extraordinary proof! test yourself! good luck with that cup of poison...
Hop, I have to point this out. Aristotle's dictum on ancient historical accounts is that they are true until proven false by contemporary alternate accounts. You guys have all been claiming that the NT is false mainly as no other accounts mention Jesus other than Josephus. However, you have yet to present a single account of that time that disproved or showed the Gospels were incorrect. On this alone, we MUST trust the NT like we do all the other historical accounts like Diodorus & Strabo.
The accounts were not written by an historian, they were by Christians as religious texts. That is what they are religious texts, not historical texts.
I have no feelings about Dawkin's fantasy spaghetti monster. I don't hate krishna or dislike allah or begrudge thor, frei, saturn, zues, apollo, osiris, bacchus, or damuzzi. They don't exist. If you really believe God doesn't exist, you could pass my test. No one has ever passed it. You could say Praise Jesus the Christ, God come in the flesh. And it wouldn't bother you if He wasn't real, Hop.
False, Hop. I can shred any world religion and its god especially pantheism and polytheism due to their internal contraddictions on the nature of God. Christian theism is the ONLY theological system without ANY internal contradictions on the nature of God. My debates with theists are easy because they are logical & respond to logic even when it corrects their beliefs. Atheists just deny everything including their own logical contradictions, so the debates are frustrating & chidish by comparison.
Just because one guy's theory of gravity was erroneous, it does not mean that gravity doesn't exist. Just as a complete explanation of gravity has never been given, just because we can't understand everything about God, it does not mean that He does not exist. Study, verify, learn, but, don't sit on your butts making claims to cover your laziness or outright rejection of God as though it were simply intellectually based. You hate God & You wouldn't if God actually didn't exist. I have no feeling
It depend upon what God you are speaking about and the attributes you give to it. To say that you know that God exists and you know which God and you know the mind of God and what God wants is ludicrous. No, I agree Sam Harris point that 'faith' is perhaps the biggest danger facing the survival of the human race. I do not agree on everything Harris has to say having read both his books.
Asking science to do what religion has been doing is asking for corrupting science.
SheStillRuns 2 months ago
If it perorates, its not science anymore.
SheStillRuns 2 months ago
Yeah, man. It sounds like a groundbreaking & revolutionizing undertaking of perhaps unequaled importance. So at what level are you in your research? Are you asking for money here? Funding to conduct your research? I'd like to hear how you propose to organize and conduct these studies. Hey.. I'm sold. Yeah. Let's do it. Now.... HOW? Set it up. Stop talking about it (unless you're trying to raise money for it) and goddamn DO IT already.
xxxHYPNOTISTxxx 8 months ago
Would you kill ant because it crawled on you, IF you knew it had the same level of consciousness as a human? No?
Therefore knowledge (and the means to gain knowledge i.e. science) can influence moral decisions.
Done
surroundedbysilly 1 year ago
Argument? This is a lecture, not a debate. School much?
drgoldteef 1 year ago
@drgoldteef The word argument has more than one meaning. It can simply be a coherent series of statements leading from a premise to a conclusion. This lecture certainly contains an argument in this sense of the word.
MrMZaccone 11 months ago
@MrMZaccone Thank you for clearing that up with your enlightening message. You're about 4 months late to the conversation, though. To get you up to speed: There are two ways to determine someone's argument. You can, A) Watch the f_king video yourself, or B) Ask someone else to watch it for you in the comments section
drgoldteef 11 months ago
@drgoldteef And your point is?
MrMZaccone 11 months ago
@MrMZaccone My point is that you are akin to Captain Obvious showing up to the conversation 1/3 of a year late with diarrhea of the keyboard. :)
drgoldteef 11 months ago
What is his main argument?
hasnain26 1 year ago
@hasnain26 - Argument? In this lecture, all he's saying that you don't need religion or God to find out whether a moral decision is right or wrong. We just need our brains.
redchango 9 months ago
@redchango haha thank you. I had to do this analysis on his speech (8 months ago :p) but thank you anyway.
hasnain26 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
what are sam harris arguments?
MrAnfield31 1 year ago
what are sam harris arguments?
MrAnfield31 1 year ago
lawerence is there what a man
johnnyd101 1 year ago
elitism means that truth and logic should adopt a new set of values that are based on personal appreciation of special people that definition lies outside of universal truth, or universal reason. It justifies sujective thinking based on definitive terms. terms defined by the ELite with no regard to truth. These are the people who need to be killed.
nVei06 1 year ago
If the elite were the best to do what they make exclusively their right, (that's all democrats and liberals do. priding themselves on making everything putrid) but if they actually were the best, we would be in world properity and world peace. no, they do the opposite. that's why the world is derpress and going to be be in war.
nVei06 1 year ago
elitism is when the ones do not innovate and progress the world reap the rewards. This is why we have shitty things everywhere. this is why we will have civil war. the crimminal is stealing everything, but doing nothing to make it better world, therefore people will fight. elitism is causeing that.
nVei06 1 year ago
this guy is a string of false myths that you all take as truth, the delusionaly ones are proven to be these people. Look at the audience. this guy is thinking for them and they are totally brain dead. he spun off false statement after false statement. proven false.All the religious are based on reason .these people have no idea what he's saying. Btw, he's saying, the elite should have no restriction on how they treat the non elite. and that the selfish dishonest people deserve to be the elite.
nVei06 1 year ago
that is what he is saying. He's saying, the selfish and dishonest make the world progress. But this is a lie. The soviets or the old world artisotracy, was shit on shit compared to the freedom of america.
nVei06 1 year ago
@nVei06 I ask you to define what you mean by "the freedom of america".
dan012345 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The atheist said: Religious people are weak and this was the response: Don't freacken call me weak? The reason I am not going to put a bullet in your head is because I respect God. But I still can choose to put seven bullets in your head just to show you, you do not mess with God... Nay, No psychologist is going to convince me not to do what God tells me not to do.
Airlightf 1 year ago
I love the interweb. Here I am just sitting around smoking pot watching some youtube then BLAM! KNOWLEDGE!!!!!
VALEendGIANT 1 year ago
@VALEendGIANT lol yeh internet where lazy people go to learn no offence just saying
patrickledford420 1 year ago
@patrickledford420 I was just alluding to the fact that I wasn't really looking to learn then all of a sudden it was learning time. Also I really appreciate how you were concerned for my feelings. You sir are a gentleman. The interweb could use more patrickledford420's. Good day to you.
VALEendGIANT 1 year ago
@VALEendGIANT i know thats what u were saying thats what i was saying but yes its great isnt it every fact ever known is in the enternet
patrickledford420 1 year ago
@VALEendGIANT haha yeh - good ol interweb
fishybishbash 1 year ago
@VALEendGIANT this peice of shit evil jew thing said that the only thing religons share in common is that they have no application whatsoever for reason or science in determining morality. This guy should is smart enough to know he sent a hunk of total shit down you idiot throats. That complete utterly evil of him to lie like that, and you people swallow it. His agenda is to have humanity deprived of dignity where the elite do anything to the non elite. Pure evil.
nVei06 1 year ago
@nVei06 Elitism is a necissity in attempting to find the 'best' direction of progression. Without Elitism any hastily thrown together theory would have to be treated as equal to a heavily investigated and evidentially supported theory, this is idiocy my friend.
dan012345 1 year ago
@dan012345 No, that;s a bunch of bullshit. Sam harriss should be burned alive. that is progress. the elite pride themselves on their corrupt thinking. they disable progress, excellence, eficiency, justice, and then literally sam hariss determines that is intrinsic to progress. He even likes to mention he feel dishonest people are evolutionary in their selfish dishonest ways. Their dishonestly produces excellence in life standards. he's so unscientific, that make sense to him. yeah ok.
nVei06 1 year ago
@dan012345 Idiot, ELITISM is saying the privelleged class should have rights and dignities the poor, or abused class do not. Don't listen to this shit tool. ELITISM is nothing asside from that. idiot
nVei06 1 year ago
@nVei06 You are simply misinformed. Elitism is the belief that some individuals who hold particular attributes are those whose views should be taken more seriously on a subject. Although this could be seen as the 'upper classes' opinions being more important, which I disagree with, it also means that those who are better qualified and practiced in a particular field have more imput into subjects of that field. In that way it is necissary.
Some peoples opinions SHOULD be taken over others
dan012345 1 year ago
@dan012345 no, elitism means they think, that a certain group has not rights than others. IT wouldn't be elitism if they were merely looking at the best ideas. That is not elitism. They are saying, 'goodness of the idea' is based on who is coming up with the idea, NOT, what the idea is. That is elitism. OThers views are wrong. YOu are wrong. should be killed.
nVei06 1 year ago
smart guy
bstse 1 year ago
@bstse this guy said nothing intelligent. he said all religions have nothing in common. (that's what he said since the one thing he said they have in common is not what religious people belive. ) if you take the religion of moses, christians, hindus, muslims, you'll find they have almost everything in common. sam harri is a peice of evil. he shoul dbe burned alive. this is true. he didn't make a mistake, he's just trying to convince you of something that he knows is not true. he's trash.
nVei06 1 year ago
I refuse to believe that Sam Harris is a moral realist. He is too smart for that.
zefreak 1 year ago 3
@zefreak this shit turd?
nVei06 1 year ago
How is this theatre not packed with people?!!!!
ANDREWSABAT 2 years ago 7
@ANDREWSABAT
It was a conference not open to the public.
SinfulMessiah 2 years ago
@ANDREWSABAT I think that they wanted to make him look bad. It looks like an "image set up"
tonyrosana1 1 year ago
I could barely disagree more with Sam Harris. The notion not only there is objective truth in ethics but that we eventually can know this Truth, is naive, unreflected and I would say stems from Harris' scientistic overriding paradigm.
The cock-sureness of Harris is showing of dogmatism, which is stiff and boring in Harris' case.
hyperseauton 2 years ago
@hyperseauton Yeah! We can only get good information of that kind from the babbling of ancient patriarchs, or getting high!
hymnofashes 1 year ago
That is exactly what skepticism, pragmatism and postmodernism is all about: Ancient patriarchs.
Watch user/Professoranton here on youtube.
Learn a little contemporary philosophy.
hyperseauton 1 year ago
@hymnofashes it's quite clear that sam hariss and you people should be killed in the name of science, truth and progress,
nVei06 1 year ago
good vid on ethics and the brain is:
Dan Siegel Google Talk
qaplatlhinganmaH 2 years ago
"As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. ...And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. " Adolf Hitler
qaplatlhinganmaH 2 years ago 6
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weird how wrong he is about some stuff
faithm 2 years ago
such as?
kksf1979 2 years ago 3
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It is false to say that religions think science is uninvolved in morality - it is precisely the opposite. The Catholic Church teaches that science proves there is a God.
Did you see Expelled? The top evolutionists in the world can only say the "life began on the backs of a crystal" but cannot say WHERE the crystal came from. Science and Faith are married - they coexist dependent on eachother.
RockTheFacts 2 years ago
The catholic church is one of the most corrupt and hypocritical entities out there, therefore using them as example nullifies your point.
uckfeconservs 2 years ago 16
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I am a christian and I believe that Science proves that there is a God and so do alot of christians who goes to the university that I go too. Since I am not roman catholic that point is not nullified...
starr7491 2 years ago
so you mean, that your interpetation of scientific information proves god.
i would suggest that it is in fact your awe with the implications or misunderstandings of scientific discoveries, which is beyond your level of understanding which leads you and others like you, to tack on god as the explaination.
jhnthnh 2 years ago
Since an Evolutionist is by definition NOT a Quantum Dynamicist,why would it be incumbent on one to entertain a conundrum of First Cause? Does one seek answers pertinent to the spin of bosons from a Zoologist?
djnross 2 years ago 6
Evolution doesn't say life began on the backs of crystals. Evolution doesn't cover how life began at all, that's abiogenesis.
Science doesn't know how life started (yet), but is happy to say it doesn't know. Unlike the religious, who chant 'god did it.'
davealton999 2 years ago 16
Expelled is the worst movie ever made and Ben Stein is a giant douche.
Ragnaros12345 2 years ago 56
Expelled had many falsehoods in it, there are many videos here on youtube that debunk it, some better than others. Absence of knowledge doesn't confirm the existance of god, only that we don't have the answer yet.
jesse1018 2 years ago 40
very interesting...
tiberux 2 years ago 2
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Sam Harris is my least favourite atheist lecturer. I'm sticking to Dawkins before my head sinks into the desk...
RedDaVincy 3 years ago
Jesus was an illegitimate fatherless bastard.
hopokuk 3 years ago 2
hopokuk: I'm an atheist through and through, but your comment was quite unnecessary... In fact, comments like these only reinforce the fears that Americans have about atheists, that we will destroy their churches and pass laws to prevent them from praying. We can stridently disagree with the opinions of the religious, but I'm not sure active desecration of what they hold dear takes us anywhere.
vp1981ad 3 years ago
"bastard" was over the top. point taken.
but I hold the truth to be dear, when you have this idea that you can establish the truth through faith, that its revealed.. I dunno tut tut
no way would I, and I cannot imagine any atheist/agnostic descrating a church.
hopokuk 3 years ago
I understand you. It drives me absolutely nuts sometimes that people are convinced that faith can provide them with the deepest truths - truths that they can then impose upon everyone else... But then I take a deep breath and count to 10 :-)
vp1981ad 3 years ago
Christianity is a pagan religion. All religions are pagan.
hopokuk 3 years ago 2
False, Christianity is anti-pagan by definition as is Judaism, its foundation. Nice try, Hop.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
False CV08, Yahweh was a tribal god among many gods, like Baal, an YHWH was an invented angry volcano god.
The superstitious bronze age people did not understand the world around them and explained natural disasters around them with oral explanations of supernatural occurances that they later recorded with the invention of writing.
These people did not know any better and are as still as dumb now as they were then.
hopokuk 3 years ago 5
False, Hop. That is an opinion based on premises that are opinion and unprovable. Nice try though, common fallacy.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
false, ChristianVoice08. again! one doesnt wonder anymore!
that opinion is based on the same premises that are just as opinion and unprovable but make jesus into g0d. only the methodology applied is different.
since you cant prove there is a god or that jesus is a g0d, the "illegitimate hypothesis" makes much more sense when speculating about historicity of jesus.
natural hypotheses make more sense than supernatural. as well, you refuse to test yourself. but you have faith! but you refuse!
pikechris1 3 years ago
A naturalistic explanation could be that the Hebrews could see the smoke from a huge volcanic eruption hundreds of miles away that looked like a pillar of fire at night.
I saw a programme about it on NationalGeo. a Greek island erupted about 1300BC I think.
hopokuk 3 years ago
And monkey's could fly out of my colon, Hop. Facts not in evidence. You are selling us assumptions based on opinioon supported by speculation. That only proves my prior assertion, you are rejecting known facts based on bias driven assumption conveniently made to rule out the real history and account of Judaism and Christianity. I don't know how further to respond to such blind allegiance to error and bias, such brain washing...
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
what real history are you talking about, ChristainVoice08? the mythical, mystical account? well, why is it called mythical, mystical? i wonder.
your "reality refusal faith" is truly exceptional, cousin. youre talking about biblical histories as facts, yet they havent been verified through science. on the contrary, most of them were rather disproved. just like the creation myth, flood myth, ancient hebrew myth, and of course the whole jesus the mashiah, son of man with the clouds of heaven myth.
pikechris1 3 years ago
The OT fairy tales are based on oral traditions, you have faith bias, we evolved from apes so don't disrespect monkeys.
brain washed by who? I am a freethinker.
hopokuk 3 years ago 4
QUOTE "you are rejecting known facts"
please inform us of these facts?
hopokuk 3 years ago 4
>You are selling us assumptions based on opinioon supported by speculation
Pot calling the kettle black.
Echelon030 2 years ago
Thank you for posting. Mr. Harris is always interesting, thought-provoking, inspiring, and...damn likable.
williambenton 3 years ago 2
Modern science was founded by theists? SO WHAT? 99% of the people alive were theists, so they were the only people there to do the job. It's like saying only ancient Mongolians were the only men capable of inventing the arrow. Well, get over it - they happened to be the ones to do it, but only because of chance. Someone else would have mad that technological advance.
This is tantamount to claiming that NO further science will be advanced by non-theists, which of course is patently false.
nixonfanatic 3 years ago 2
I misread neurtheology. I thought you wrote neurology. There is no such thing as neurotheology and neurology still can't account for its own researchers cognitive abilities. Further, it denies the rational minds of the researchers and calls ALL thinking and sanity into question in its blind assent to scientific naturalism.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
you can buy books on Neurotheology / Biotheology. I have a 5 parts series 'God on the Brain' about the subject listed on my favourites.
hopokuk 3 years ago
Hop, the books are going beyond the data available. Please, email me the ISBN number or the title & author that I may review them.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
2 that I own -
The God Part of The Brain - Mathhew Alper
The Psychological Roots of Religious Belief - M. D. Faber
Also -
Neurotheology: Brain, Science, Spirituality, Religious Experience by Rhawn Joseph, Andrew, M.D. Newberg, Matthew Alper, and Carol Albright Rausch
What Is Neurotheology? by Brian C. Alston
Biotheology: A New Synthesis of Science and Religion by Michael Cavanaugh
hopokuk 3 years ago 2
Religions go beyond the data available.
hopokuk 3 years ago 2
Or so they would have the gullible and wishful believe, at any rate.
TithonusSyndrome 3 years ago
QUOTE Religions go beyond the data available
Religions don't purport to be science and solely based on empirical data. Science that goes beyond the data is religion! You just refuted your own sources, Hop. Also, as for your bogus claim about Tal Brooke, he was not a Christian when he studied under Sai Baba. If you knew anything about his writings or read any of his works, you would have known that. Either way ALL men have biases and presuppositions. Ergo Christians can't be dismissed for that
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
You have not read the two books I cited. They are neutral and nontheistic. We do not claim to know things we could not possibly know.
You cannot silence atheists for expressing their opinions as to why they have chosen not to believe in any religion.
hopokuk 3 years ago 2
You (Christains) treat other beliefs like crap by imposing "christ"-mas on everyone.
hopokuk 3 years ago 4
The consequence of atheism is nihilism. the consequence of anti-theism is disease and biological failure, as in the decline of western populations. I say let the anti-theists abort their children and die off. Its not the job of believers to force them to change their ways of life. (in a secular regime under G_ds law we can save the chilren and raise them to hate their would be killers).
Ecothearcy 3 years ago
Perhaps you have not met many people who don't believe in gods. I've encountered plenty of atheists but I've never met a nihilist.
hopokuk 3 years ago
"... and raise them to hate ..."
'You're gravely mistaken, you won't convert me as you did my father.' -- Luke Skywalker
coylh 3 years ago
Eco, God does not allow for the hating of ANYONE. Yahweh only allows for the hatred of sin and evil. He calls us to love even our enemies and to feed and clothe our enemies in their suffering. THough He commands that we prepare to defend ourselves with force of arms, it is defense not hatred that pulls the trigger.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
Bull, Hop. Christmas is a Catholic pagan high day based on the old cult of Mithras who was legendarily born on Dec 25th. I have not wished ANYONE a Merry Christmas here that I know of. I do not celebrate Christmas myself. And, NO ONE is forcing you to celebrate anything! Still True Christians will not force you to do anything except the cessation of hostilities or the violation of their God-given rights in America. Your claim is blatantly & patently false.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
I agree it was already a pagan holiday. Not just Mithras but many gods shared that day as birthday.
There has been no hostilities or violation of rights from me. It would not surprise me at all if a Christians in US was a gun-touting looney.
Check the statistics, the most violent countries are the countries where there is strong belief in abrahamic god. Why don't you have universal free medical health care in America?
hopokuk 3 years ago 2
False, Hop. Only Mithras had that birthday. If you tie dammuzzi or tammuz to mithras, then, they become one cult with a common god of two names. So, no, there arent many gods with the same celebrated birthday. Zeitgeist is a crock not fact.
As for your war claim, it is false. Muslims have the highest theistic kill rates after communist atheist countries & they DO NOT worship the Christian God. Your claim is false based on false premises based on a lack of knowledge of religion.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
false, ChristiaVoice08, false once again!
Lactantius, Divine institutes IN.13.2-4, 14.2-5.
pikechris1 3 years ago
There is no 13th book in Lanctitius, DI! Cite a legitimate source. I use encyclopedias and books on mythology. You might try some scholarly study instead of false quotes.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
i dont claim there is one...
pikechris1 3 years ago
In peasant folklore many gods had there mythological birthdays celebrated on the Winter Solitice :- Jesus, Attis, Buddha, Dionysus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra 25th December.
hopokuk 3 years ago 2
FALSE, Hop. Horus and krishna were NOT celebrated on Dec. 25th. IT was the mithraic cult of Rome that picked that date and incorporated it into the Catholic tradition in a successful attempt to marry mithraism with paganized Christianity. Cite a legitamate source for such a lie! You can look up the mthraic cult & christmas in the Encyclopedia of Demonology or cults and verify my facts. Do you even know what a reference section or library is???
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
That 'Encyclopedia of Demonology' is 50 years out of date. New research and discoveries have been made since then.
Horus - 'The Pagan Christ' by Tom Harpur
hopokuk 3 years ago 2
No, encyclopedias covering ancient knowledge are better the older they are!!!
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
I am was talking of violent crimes.
Of all the Western Secular countries the most violent society is the US and it also the country that has the most people that profess belief in the Christian God. Also divorse, adultery, abortion and inequality between rich and poor is the worse.
hopokuk 3 years ago 3
And all this New Year's celebration 2008/09, when is that dated from? The alleged birth of a myth?
Scientific Naturalists should invent a new Star Date calender and use that instead.
hopokuk 3 years ago 2
Ummm, New Year has NOTHING to do with Christianity, Hop. PLEASE, do some studying and learn history and common knowledge. If our new year were tied into religion, we would be celebrating New Year according to the Jewish calendar. The more you post, the more you lack of education becomes apparent.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
AD , BC - the calender is reckoned from the year of conception or birth of Jesus Christ.
So what if we say bce or CE it still gets on my wick, why date it from that?
hopokuk 3 years ago 3
because of a wicked tradition. answers one why, but doesnt answer the other, why we should continue using that...
pikechris1 3 years ago
Because, Jesus the Christ changed history, Hop. You can't change history. You can only ignore it.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
Paul, Constantine and Rome changed history.
hopokuk 3 years ago
Yes but not as much as Jesus of Nazareth changed history. No world religion can make that claim. How does a "cult" change the entire world when the evidence could have disproved it?
Islam has not changed the world, Mormonism has not changed the world, but, you want us to believe that Jesus is a myth like those cults yet he changed the course of human history? No fictional character has EVER been able to boast that. You can't fool everyone & I'd say the same of multiple civilizations!
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
all religion has a place in history even the ones that are long gone. it has affected us (humans)evolve. maybe some other religions besides Christianity hasn't affected you as much, but how can you think they haven't affected the world as a whole. the christian religion has affected more people than any other, but it doesn't make it true. just because the majority believe it doesn't mean it is accurate.truth isn't in numbers
slytherinspy1960 3 years ago
Look how the cult of Mormon grew from a handful of followers to 13 million adherents in just 170 years.
Look how the Cargo Cults (heard of cargo cults) sprung up in just 60.
So imagine what a cult can become given 2000 years.
Yes I suppose a historical teacher and cult leader called Yeshua may have existed, but it is patently that much that has been written about him can be dismissed as legend.
hopokuk 3 years ago
Cults grow fast but don't change the world, Hop. Islam in all its efforts to evangellize by the sword like Catholicism has failed to have the same impact on history as the Historical Jesus and His true followers.
Your comparison fails to refute my argument regarding the positive impact and absolute alterations of the history of man and the western world by Jesus, God Who entered His creation and walked the earth.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
Christianity created Islam, CV08.
False CV08, cults grow to become religions as the numbers of believers increases and that does affect the world's population.
You are stuck in your circular logic of 'That What Will Be, Will Be' and you call that 'God's will'.
hopokuk 3 years ago
edit: what will be will be
hopokuk 3 years ago
Persecuting us. We've had enough of all the Bull.
16% non-religious in America today, 30% in 2 decades. Western Europe majority secular non-religious. You can't ignore us.
hopokuk 3 years ago 4
Hop, you're blind. NO ONE is persecuting you. If we were, you wouldn't have a voice. Try shouting against the Catholic church in Spain and you'll see persecution. America still allows free voice to everyone even the minorities like yourself. No one has ignored you either. We have reviewed the leading atheist arguments and post here to let you know that we have listened and identified the errors & are willing to dialog w/you. If hearing an opposing view offends you,then, YOU are the fascist!
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
THE UN HAS A BLASPHEMY LAW CV08
Albeit it is more the case that Muslim scum are bullying us.
hopokuk 3 years ago 3
The laws of Islam oppress us all. That is why we are fighting them now. They are slaying Christians almost as fast as the Communists.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
You think you have problems. I live in Britain. Mass immigration from the islamic world outbreeding us. 'multi-culturalism' , 'multi-faith' , and the next King charles 'defender of faith' he's a muslim or might as well be.
As for communism that does not fit naturalistic humanistic principles.
hopokuk 3 years ago
I understand & worry for you there in the UK. Canada is also overwhelmed by muslims. We are trying to educate people here in America that sharia law naturally follows the rise to power of muslims. But the political correctness movement here is trying to silence us. I may soon be arrested in the US for my public speaking against the intolerance of the "tolerant" ones despite our Constitutional acknowledgment that freedom and free speech are God given rights and unalienable.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
you can't be arrested for speaking up against someone, and the political correctness movement is doing no such thing. they are trying to silence those in government, not the people. you can say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean the government can. they have to be politically correct, because if they weren't then they wouldn't be acting fair.this isn't a majority rules country.
slytherinspy1960 3 years ago
It is true that when Muslim populations grow in size in Western secular countries they want to have their own Sharia laws separate from the laws of the country.
The UN was set up to protect human rights not to protects religions.
hopokuk 3 years ago
watch?v=uyZ5NI_QjXw
so this are the satanic powers? perhaps with plenty of fantasy and when overstating, one could call trickery satanic.
besides, reminds me of the cheap tricks performed by uri geller... :)
pikechris1 3 years ago
Only a credulous, gullible, superstitious, ignorant moron would believe that Sai Baba possessed supernatural 'satanic power'.
Like a religious person. They might believe it.
hopokuk 3 years ago
i was rather thinking of satanic as a possible synonym for evil, but surely, gullible religious people, especially theists, whether mono or poly, might tend to believe that, just like our cousin CV08 demonstrates...
pikechris1 3 years ago
satan is not a god. Maybe your are shooting for dualism which has internal contradiction & is thusly proved false.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
i see ChristianVoice08, you are again applying your deficient logical skills. quote me where i claimed within the context of this specific debate that shaytan was god. im very eager to see that quote...
you are applying a common straw man distraction only, thusly the weight of your rhetorics squibs away, just like the jinn from a broken flask...
pikechris1 3 years ago
QUOTE CHRIS
"you are applying a common straw man distraction only, thusly the weight of your rhetorics squibs away, just like the jinn from a broken flask..."
What??? more denials without refutation. If I hear "strawman" again without a legitimate evidence of a strawman argument from me, I am going to ignore the ignorant denial as I hope will others.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
what? where did i claim satan was god? you made this claim that i allegedly made. you cant prove that, thus its very likely you have misrepresented one of my claims about "shaytanic" being used a possible synonym for "evil". the connection to mono and polytheism comes through the likelihood that believers following those religious streams will recognize shaytan as the evil.
you are in heavy denial. you show exceptional lack of rhetorical logical skills...
pikechris1 3 years ago
No, Chris, luciferian doctrine does not call him evil as a noun or equivalent. Christian monotheism does not teach that either & has NOTHING in common with polytheism. YOU are the one using strawman arguments.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
haha... im not talking about luciferians. thats something for you. so again another straw man of yours.
christian doctrine teaches satan is the lord of this world. "it" must be evil since it tries to pull over jesus to its side. as well "it" tries to deceive the "good" christians through "trickery", blah, blah, blah.
there are polytheist religions that have similar characters like satan. thats all. A GENERALIZATION. if you didnt understand that, then you have a serious problem...
pikechris1 3 years ago
Hop, you are a fool! You cannot say what someone else has really seen and touched when YOU weren't there! You are insulting veracible sources who had PhD's not high school GEDs. Any evidence of the supernatural that you see, you are going to try and ad hominem into thin air. You reject the truth. You will reject ALL evidence to hold to your brain washed religion.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
yeah ChristianVoice08, they all have phds and yet they cant demonstrate what they "teach". you know what? such phds are worth not more than toilet paper.
you still havent provided the "truth". any naturalist has the naturally given right through applying reason to strongly dismiss your bogus claims. you claim the suspension of the "laws" but never demonstrate anything. you relate to shaytanic powers, but are easily exposed through one little vid. where is the evidence? here?
watch?v=uyZ5NI_QjXw
pikechris1 3 years ago
They cannot demonstrate the power that they witnessed because they are not POSSESSED. Read "riders of the Cosmic Circuit". Superpossession is a discussed demonic condition. Possession is a commonly recognized condition not some mystical magical state unproven. I have watched videos on Reputable News Programs showing demonic miracles. I have witnessed individuals with superhuman shtrength. Go watch a voodoo ceremony for yourself. QUIT quoting others. Do some real research, chris.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
"They cannot demonstrate the power that they witnessed because they are not POSSESSED."
this is nonsense, ChristianVoice08. the bible (NT) doesnt say you have to be POSSESSED when asking for healing or requiring protection from poison. all it requires is having faith and eventually a summoning of more believers.
"QUIT quoting others. Do some real research, chris."
HA! you dont like when i come up with peer reviewed studies. you want me to engage in pseudoscience and crackpotery like you do!
pikechris1 3 years ago
You are haughty and that is your hubris. You only need to repeat and test any event that may appear to be supernatural and you will find that it is in fact entirely naturalistic. In all cases evidences for the supernatural amounts to nothing more than anecdotes.
hopokuk 3 years ago 3
Hop, you just prove my point. You don't want to know God. You hate Him and no ammount of evidence will change your mind. Your desire is to ignore God at all costs. I leave you to your delusions. 2000 years of history is alll a lie... Modern science wasn't founded by theists...Atheism was always the predominant world view despite its irreconcilable internal contradictions...Go back to sleep...
Don't post to me anymore & I will leave you alone.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
Duh... there is a time differential across The Pond.
There are two types of people naturalists and supernaturalists.
Agree to disagree?
hopokuk 3 years ago
Atheism is on the rise in Europe as a result of modernism and war. But, on a greater ground swell is neo-paganism & Islam. So, the current popularity of atheism in areas of Europe will soon subside and merge into a disgusting neo-pagan religious movement that will absorb atheists as they become disillusioned with the spiritual vacuum of atheism & science degrades into religion finally embracing the supernatural through Dharmic laws of eastern mysticism & "experiments" proving the immaterial...
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
The exciting and advancing new science of Neurotheology will weed out the problem.
hopokuk 3 years ago
QUOTE-...new science of Neurotheology will weed out the problem.
Ah, here it is...the pope & his ring again. I knew we would get another promise of evidence that MAY one day arise as long as we hum the mantra & blindly follow the mystics of the modern religion, science. Let us don our white lab coats & blindly hope that the evidence that refutes naturalism will one day be explained away by discoveries made by scientific naturalism. Sad when you accuse us of such blindness, Hop!
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
Hop, you are simply dismissing the evidence without excuse or reason as you can't refute it or explain it away. That is ignorance of the highest order. I am wasting time on a brain washed naive follower and not a free thinker who will reject God if Jesus appeared to you tomorrow. You have decided that you hate God and are just fabricating a tapestry of deception to hide behind.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
Jesus is not here.
If Jesus appeared tomorrow religion would be a science.
hopokuk 3 years ago
If astronauts found the 10 Commandments written in huge letters on the dark side of the moon and it radiodated to 4 billion years or more, and was verified not a hoax, that would strong evidence for Jehovah (or aliens).
hopokuk 3 years ago
but not books, however ancient, that have the hallmark of being manmade.
hopokuk 3 years ago
I've been to several English cathedrals, they are like lit up caverns with statues, iconography, and graves. God is not there. God is not on the hills or in the fields and woods either. God is in books and the minds of believers, like a concept.
hopokuk 3 years ago
Duh. I am not arguing for false Christian cults like Anglicanism or Catholicism. They have been disproved prior to the Reformation.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
Scientific laws are DESCRIPTIVE not PRESCRIPTIVE. They show that during man's observation certain things occur. It is your theoretical physicists trying to explain away logic & God who say when you study X, you alter X and therefore you can't trust your results. Christians say because God is logical, He created a logical universe where 2+2 ALWAYS =4! You don't get that certainty from the philosophy of scientific naturalism. It hides an unproved premise in it's title denying God w/o evidence.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
Wrong, you have to be ready to change what you believe whenever you discover new evidence, so there is agnosticism in that philosophy.
hopokuk 3 years ago
They never change their view as the philosophy precludes theism by a hidden premise of atheism in the definition. And even if it didn't, science is the study of the natural world not the supernatural universe. Ergo, they'll never consider theism. Try again, Hop.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
Neutral in defintion.
Science can study Overlapping Magisteria.
hopokuk 3 years ago
Science shows that in all trials we have found X results. It does NOT disprove that roughly 2000 years ago, Y may have happened. Science is not history, logic or math. Biological sciences are about understanding biology and the common usual results of biological processes. No one has ever disproved the eyewitness accounts of the New Testament because no one was there. Those of us including doctor who have seen actual miracles cannot disprove prior miracles that defy natural law.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
I makes no sense to fly in believing extraordinary anncient claims when you know instinctively they just ain't true.
hopokuk 3 years ago
If you know instinctively ANYTHING, then, there is a God. Sorry, genetics doesn't account for instinct. Thanks for the theistic argument, Hop.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
Of course genetics accounts for instincts. Now you are being ignorant.
hopokuk 3 years ago
Provide the genetic sequence for migratory patterns or homing navigation in animals. You are full of it, Hop. Genes DON'T code for information such as memory or instinct.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
What do you think geneticists study. You are appealing to a gap. scientists could easily study that funding, time, and faster technology is still needed.
The migratory patterns are genetically coded into the neurocircuitry.
hopokuk 3 years ago 3
No, Hop. NO such finding from genetics has been made. Please, cite a study if there is one. Your fallacy is similar to an argument from ignorance with a twist. But, it's still arguing facts NOT in evidence.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
"Flexibility in a Gene Network Affecting a Simple Behavior in Drosophila melanogaster."
hopokuk 3 years ago
"Facial Expression Of Emotion Is Hardwired Say Scientists"
medicalnewstoday,com/articles/134190,php
"Spontaneous Facial Expressions of Emotion in Congenitally and Non-Congenitally Blind Individuals".
David Matsumoto and Bob Willingham.
Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Vol. 96, No.1, January 2009."
"warmly" recommended, ChristianVoice08. another of your world views destroyed. the actual study will be published just in a few days or perhaps hours... :)
pikechris1 3 years ago
Did Ahaziah's reign begin when he was 22 or 42?
Did Solomon have 40,000 stalls for his horses or 4000?
It's all a manmade work, hence all the discrepancies.
hopokuk 3 years ago 2
How difficult is it not to believe in a fairy tale?
hopokuk 3 years ago 3
What is it about your religion that makes you feel the need to go to places where you know atheists and other heathen are going to be, and crank on about Jesus and the Bible until the cows come home?
Is it because you have brainwashed yourself into believing that you can win a closer seat next to Christ in paradise by "saving souls".
hopokuk 3 years ago 3
To do otherwise is to err intentionally applying a bias against the NT that we do not hold against any other ancient writing of that genre & style. On the other hand if we hold this false rule against the NT, then, to be even and honest we have to throw out the majority of the records from the antiquities including Plato's Republic as we have no proof that it in any way represents the genuine text of Plato w/only 6 copies extant. If we throw out all the other accounts, we knoe nothing of history
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
yes, we apply a "bias", but this "bias approach" called scientific inquiry is the best approach we have ever had. in other words, there is simply not a better one, unless and until you can provide for one. have you already published your studies? no? how come?
your claim here is just a continuation of your straw man argument we find in your previous claim.
the whole point is, you claim the extraordinary, so deliver the extraordinary proof! test yourself! good luck with that cup of poison...
pikechris1 3 years ago
Hop, I have to point this out. Aristotle's dictum on ancient historical accounts is that they are true until proven false by contemporary alternate accounts. You guys have all been claiming that the NT is false mainly as no other accounts mention Jesus other than Josephus. However, you have yet to present a single account of that time that disproved or showed the Gospels were incorrect. On this alone, we MUST trust the NT like we do all the other historical accounts like Diodorus & Strabo.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
nice straw man, ChristianVoice08. what does that mean? your claim is totally invalid here.
yeah! once again...
pikechris1 3 years ago
The accounts were not written by an historian, they were by Christians as religious texts. That is what they are religious texts, not historical texts.
BTW there is no cliff near Nazareth.
hopokuk 3 years ago 3
yes, there is a cliff there, we just dont see it, because our hearts are sealed...
pikechris1 3 years ago
CONT
I have no feelings about Dawkin's fantasy spaghetti monster. I don't hate krishna or dislike allah or begrudge thor, frei, saturn, zues, apollo, osiris, bacchus, or damuzzi. They don't exist. If you really believe God doesn't exist, you could pass my test. No one has ever passed it. You could say Praise Jesus the Christ, God come in the flesh. And it wouldn't bother you if He wasn't real, Hop.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
Yes but you must understand that there are people, millions, who can dismiss all of those gods as easily as they can dismiss yours.
hopokuk 3 years ago
False, Hop. I can shred any world religion and its god especially pantheism and polytheism due to their internal contraddictions on the nature of God. Christian theism is the ONLY theological system without ANY internal contradictions on the nature of God. My debates with theists are easy because they are logical & respond to logic even when it corrects their beliefs. Atheists just deny everything including their own logical contradictions, so the debates are frustrating & chidish by comparison.
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
Just because one guy's theory of gravity was erroneous, it does not mean that gravity doesn't exist. Just as a complete explanation of gravity has never been given, just because we can't understand everything about God, it does not mean that He does not exist. Study, verify, learn, but, don't sit on your butts making claims to cover your laziness or outright rejection of God as though it were simply intellectually based. You hate God & You wouldn't if God actually didn't exist. I have no feeling
ChristianVoice08 3 years ago
It depend upon what God you are speaking about and the attributes you give to it. To say that you know that God exists and you know which God and you know the mind of God and what God wants is ludicrous. No, I agree Sam Harris point that 'faith' is perhaps the biggest danger facing the survival of the human race. I do not agree on everything Harris has to say having read both his books.
hopokuk 3 years ago
False, Hop. If you respond to the Gospel of Jesus and try Him, you kno the Bible is true and His mind