The "screams" are called kiai, and are part of this kata. They have a purpose in that they help project the fighting spirit, and also help shake the opponent.
the screams put me off at the beginning, but this guy has awesome bo skills. wish i was that good. i can only imagine how long he had to train to be this familiar with his weapon. its like its part of his body or something.
I've read about the Genbukan and the rank system (10th kyu - 10th dan) but what is involved in the first rank testing in Genbukan?? What fundamentals does somebody have to become good at to progress further??
@SketcherM Well the very first rank test is basically ukemi (rolls and breakfalls) and several different types of rei-ho (bows). You must first learn to fall correctly or you will injure yourself, so this is very important. Also, learning proper manners with the bows is also extremely important. Manners is the most important thing according to Tanemura Soke. On the Genbukan website there are links for the syllabus of each kyu level, so you can see for yourself the names of the techniques.
@brownsound1....Thanks a lot for the help man. I checked the website and I noticed two techniques in the 10th kyu syllabus towards the end of the page( zenpo tenkai and koho tenkai). Is it a requirement for a beginner to know how to do the handsprings even they have no previous martial art/gymnastics experience? And what is the purpose of these techniques, would you use them in combat??
@SketcherM I wouldn't worry too much about those two techniques. They are included as part of the syllabus for that level, but not being able to perform those two will not effect your test...as in they are optional techniques. If you read other materials you'll see it says "it is of no importance if a person can perform zenpo tenkai or koho tenkai." The purpose of them is to get the hell out of the way, and yes they could be used in combat.
Unlike bujinkan which rank is being given like banana In genbukan knowledge is the key to get rank.
I don't insult budo taijutsu members , I'm Nidan in Bujinkan too. But in my life i saw really bad things from bujinkan and how high ranking masters of bujinkan are giving people rank for business .
In genbukan you can train whatever ninpo schools you want, but your ranks are not recognized by Genbukan
Actually, in the Genbukan, weapons are taught and ranked separately from your taijutsu ranking. Your also taught more than three weapons, but you only rank in bikenjutsu and bojutsu/hanbojutsu.
As far as I have researched, the Jinenkan supposedly focuses on mastery of the fundamental techniques of Taijutsu, I am not too familiar with how they teach weapons. As of now, I would like to train Bujinkan and Jinenkan. Whatever system you choose, at the end of your journey you will have learned pretty much the same skills, but the path is different. Either way, people should stop arguing and not worry so much about how other people train, Ninjutsu is great, whatever the organization.
No one is saying what happened between Hatsumi and Tanemura, but I do know they had some misunderstandings, and most likely it was personal issues, but either way, Tanemura was in the Bujinkan at one point, and so was Manaka of the Jinenkan. Between all 3 of the systems, they do pretty much the same thing, but it is structured quite differently. The Genbukan teaches 2-3 weapons to get to black belt, the sword, and Hanbo, and Bo. Bujinkan teaches about 10, but your knowledge is basic.
The Genbukan is a great organization, as well as the Jinenkan, I am with the Bujinkan right now, and yes it is true that no 2 dojos do the same thing. One of my issues with the Genbukan is that it is a little bit too strict at times, if you train Genbukan, you are not allowed to train in the Jinenkan or Bujinkan. One of the highest ranked Jinenkan students in the US is making an association for everyone, regardless of previous associations to train in, I think that this is great.
@fardisghomeshi No such thing as developing your own thing? That's exactly what Hatsumi has done. If you think he is teaching the art as Takamatsu did then you are sadly mistaken.
@fardisghomeshi While Tanemura Soke did leave the Bujinkan, he is representative of the arts. He received menkyo kaiden in 6 of the 9 Bujinkan ryu-ha, as well as receiving menkyo kaiden in other arts from Takamatsu sensei from other students such as Sato Kinbei sensei, Kimura sensei, etc. He has every right to teach and represent ninpo.
@brownsound i dont doubt his skills but once a personn leave hatsumi's teachings or guidance they are no longer progressing in the art hence no longer a part or reprsentive of it. hatsumi with all his skills ans experience is still learning from his old teacher.i think if you want to represent the art you should be still part it and learnig from hatsumi.
@fardisghomeshi Time out, you do realize that Hatsumi's teacher, Takamatsu Sensei, died in 1972. Tanemura soke received full transmissions (menkyo kaiden) in Koto Ryu, Gyokko Ryu, Togakure Ryu, Kukishin Ryu, Takagi Yoshin Ryu, and Shinden Fudo Ryu from Hatsumi. He also received a menkyo kaiden in Togakure ryu from Fukumoto Yoshio sensei, who was also a student of Takamatsu sensei. So how much more are you going to progress after you receive the full transmission of the art?
@fardisghomeshi Also, Tanemura Soke has received sokeship of Gikan ryu..has the scrolls to prove it, so that's 7 of the 9 ryu ha supposed taught in the Bujinkan. Tanemura Soke has continued to seek out instruction since leaving the Bujinkan, and has studied MANY arts, and received mastership licenses in them from other direct students of Takamatsu sensei in things that aren't even taught in the Bujikan, but came from Takamatsu.
@fardisghomeshi No he doesn't have to be under Hatsumi. You obviously don't understand what menkyo kaiden means...total transmission, as in complete. How do you think so many ryu-ha have been started over the years? Someone receives menkyo kaiden, then leaves their teacher to develop their own thing. Look up the meaning of "shu ha ri."
@brownsound1 the art is just barely alive.there is no such thing as developing your own thing.i see your point for me i like to stay with a treacher till the end.there are lots of pitfalls a teacher can fall into during his training i like to avoid those.tan has skills but i know thngs about him that would make u think diffrently about him.if its not hatsumi then its nothing.
The Genbukan follows a strict syllabus by which gradings are done, and puts a great amount of emphasis on doing things in a strict, traditional format. The Bujinkan is all over the place as an organization on grading, and you'd be hard pressed to find two dojo who do the same thing. The Genbukan also has a sister organization (KJJR) that trains in various jujutsu ryuha that aren't taught in the Bujinkan.
jwills yo are very close minded and you need to realize all aspects and forms of martial arts study. Some study theory and idea you study the actuall technique. There is nothing wrong with either. Keeping an open mind in my view is Tanemura's only weakness. Although his techniques are spectacular he can expand his skills by so much by studying newer or more unorthodox technuiqes. However he his techniques have worked so far so until they are somehow redered useless he should keep things the same
How do you know Tanemura Soke isn't studying newer, unorthodoxed techniques?
Please not that what you're watching here is traditional martial arts, but within the Genbukan there is also the study of Goshinjutsu which is how to apply these traditional techniques to all kinds of attacks. Instructors may also add to that particular curriculum as well.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
How have his "techniques" worked you asshole? Where and when did he actually use them against non-compliant, resisting opponents? Where is the evidence that this fraud has ever fought anyone even once in his life? You're a fucking credulous fool if you believe this total bunk; go fuck yourself.
Bullshit. His techniques don't fucking work you retard. If they did, it would be easy for him to show them against a non-compliant student. We will never see that; because how else will he be able to dazzle losers such as you.
You deny that he was a police officer? It's hard to demonstrate true sword fighting techniques against a non-compliant opponent - the result would be kendo
What the fuck does it matter if he was a police officer? It doesn't matter a goddamn bit; that is the logical fallacy of argument from authority. His bullshit either works or it does not. If all he can show is a compliant retard demonstration and he cannot show these same moves and dramatic bullshit against a non-compliant opponent, then guess what idiot? It doesn't work!
It matters because he was a police officer and used true martial arts in true situations, whereas you are arguing on the internet. Who are people gonna believe?
I'm not going to believe him; he has to prove it. Just because someone tells you something doesn't mean it's true you idiot. If he is such an expert, let's see his techniques, just as we see demonstrated here, against a non-compliant opponent. It will never happen.
Where are your videos, oh master of fighting arts? Like I told you before, he'll be in Kitchener, Ontario September 19 and 20th. Go challenge him, or even better challenge the person in this video who's name is James Wright, he'll be there as well. I say you're chicken shit.
Hahahahaha Shihan Wright is a beast and he hurts like hell, trust me. I agree with Brownsound1, This is for Blndrfist, I guarantee you wouldn't need Tanemura Soke to prove his worth, Just test it on his Shihan especially Shihan Wright. LMAO you REALLY dont understand...
hello and sorry for the intrusion but I am also a police officer in my country and not all police oficers work in the streets catching bad guys. In fact he could have worked at desk or in an non-operative compartiment. Anyway I respect both Bujinkan and Genbukan.
You "belive"? Do you have any official sources to back that up? In my country both Public Order and Special Intervention Units are made of tall strong men. I am not saying Tanemura isn't good at what he does but he doesnt fit the profile for such a "job"!
The info is included in several written bios of Tanemura Soke. I said, "I believe" because I was recalling from memory what I had read. One other thing, unless your country is Japan, then I'd say it doesn't matter that all of the Special Intervention Units are tall and strong guys. If you are that concerned, and question it so much, write the Tokyo Metropolitan Police and ask.
Bios written by himself? Point me to some authentic biography please. Oh and ALL of the other countries Special forces are made up by strong people who pass certain endurance tests. But I guess that in Japan the intervention forces is made out of midgets since their population is made small people.I am not that concerned about this Tanemura fellow because he doesent impress me that much, but its people like you who brag about him that he was this special police agent.maybe working behind a desk.
Like I said, go ask the Tokyo Metropolitan Police if you would like verification. They would certainly have the info to prove or disprove the claim. The minimum requirement for national police in Japan is 5'2" 110 lbs. Their Kidotai would obviously be on average bigger than that, but probably not like here in the US or other countries. The riot section doesn't even carry firearms. Of course how many riots does Japan have...
@marya4u2006 tanemura might not be very tall but if you think he's not strong go to saitama and let him deck you in the face for making such a stupid comment, i'm sure you'll reevaluate what your idea of strong is
Tanemura is the best martial artist I have seen. I doesn´t matter Bujinkan has a lot of schools, videos and scrolls. It has to do with the techinique. Tanemura has Samurai blood and if you see his videos, you will se the great difference, he´s the closest thing to a Samurai, it´s like seeing the past. You can see his movements are perfect, he doesn´t struggle like Hatsumi, when Tanemura attacks, he attacks, when he grabs, he grabs. Period.
Mr. Dawkins, Who do you think taught him most of those techniques? Mr. Hatsumi! His training withthe other teachers is quite short compared to the training with Mr. Hatsumi. Also Mr. Hatsumi fights like a person reaching 80 yrs old, like he is suppose to. I would like to see you move better at his age.
Do you really think I speak of things I do not know? I have been perfectly well informed about Hatsumi and Tanemura. Shoto Tanemura studied with Takamatsu and many senior students of him after he died. There is a picture where Shoto Tanemura is with Takamatsu. And Takamatsu is performing a technique on Shoto in another picture. If you are not such an ignorant, you know a grandmaster would not attack a normal student, Shoto was a high student.
Shoto Tanemura has the BEST technique in Ninpo and Jujutsu on Earth. I you cannot see, you are blind. Hatsumi struggles when he does something and constantly fails. Shoto Tanemura´s technique is ALWAYS perfect and definitive, he does not struggle at all. Any person that did some exercise during his life could move like Hatsumi...
I hope this helps you to understand: Shoto Tanemura can TODAY at his age jump from a very high tree, land and roll. NO ONE on earth is able to do that. Hatsumi was in Bujinkan some years, and then he created Genbukan a WAY MORE traditional martial arts school. Bujinkan has no discipline, Genbukan has an enourmous discipline. Most of the members of the Bujinkan are weak and slow. The senior students of Genbukan are BETTER than the special forces of any country.
It does not matter if Hatsumi thought many techniques to Tanemura. The fact is that Hatsumi does not understand how to use them, and Tanemura does. A teacher can teach you math, but he will be a normal teacher for ever, you can get the nobel prize althought he teached you math. This is the case of Tanemura.
You think the students of Tanemura can beat all the Special forces on the planet? Have you met all the Special forces on the planet. Special Forces, are people, who have actually killed people for a living. Why don't you ask Tanemura and his group who has killed a person before? Once again your comments show your ignorance. You seem to be quite young as well.
Bryce your comments sound like a fool living in fairytale land. Best on the Planet!!! have you actually met everyone on the planet? Do you really think he is the only person who can fall from high tree and roll. If watch the original discovery channel special you can see it was his student who fell from the high tree and back rolled. That right there shows your ignorance and obvious stupidity.
No, they sound like that because you seem to be under the influence of some kind of drug. Or maybe you are just an ignorant like I said. You see... Ignorant people has always believed that something they could not understand had to do something with magic, this is your case. Your retarded brain block you from seeing nothing is absolute, when I say no one, it doesn´t mean actually no one, like superman.
If I say, that woman is the most beautiful on earth, it doesn´t actually mean, that among over 3 billion women on Earth, she is the most beautiful one. You have no abstraction, you are like a block of ice. Whoever intelligent person that is able to look at your comments can predict you are a person used to close people´s mouth, this is not my case, I alwaya win my discussions because I give argument, unlike you, that compares me with fairy tales.
Understand I am not an amateur. I am a elite professional of martial arts. You have very serious issues, I never said the senior students of Tanemura could beat the speacil forces of ANY planet. You sick bastar... I said, they were better than most of them, meaning their fitness obviously. For ninjas have no firearms...
Killing doesn´t not give you power you ignorant. The willpower not to kill is what gives you true power. Shoto Tanemura has been mugged, or at least they tried, over 10 Yakuza and he beat them, WITHOUT killing anyone, that´s a TRUE grandmaster. People who haven´t had any real martial arts training can´t understand the level of people like Tanemura. When I didn´t know anything, I say punches, and throws like it was nothing, now that I´ve felt them, I can see how hard is it.
Conclusion: Genbukan has the most elite martial arts system on Earth. Since I have to explain it to you... Mabe some old man in India inside the rainforest is better, WE DON´T KNOW. Tanemura offers teaching of hand to hand, hand to knife, knife to knife, sword, long stick, short stick, chain, naginata, throwing stars, throwing sticks, throwing cards, etc... If you are seeing the evidence right here of the level of the Genbukan members, Why can´t you accept Tanemura is one of the best on Earth?
Conclusion: Genbukan has the most elite martial arts system on Earth. Since I have to explain it to you... Mabe some old man in India inside the rainforest is better, WE DON´T KNOW. Tanemura offers teaching of hand to hand, hand to knife, knife to knife, sword, long stick, short stick, chain, naginata, throwing stars, throwing sticks, throwing cards, etc... If you are seeing the evidence right here of the level of the Genbukan members, Why can´t you accept Tanemura is one of the best on Earth?
You are stupid because when you say something is absolute and don't believe it then it is false or a lie. So you are a stupid bastard because you don't understand the words you are using. Are you a native English speaker or just a young ignorant person. Once again how do you know if they are better than other elite groups? Have you trained with them?.....NO probably not.
You are just a piece of garbage asshole, close your fucking mouth. You keep spitting words giving no argument. You copy the things I say, and you are uncapable to understand. Wake up asshole.
I have given an argument for everything you have said. The problem is you can't give a good counter argument. You have been saying all these things you admit you don't believe. You are starting to realize you are wrong. Now you are getting really upset and name calling instead saying something intelligent. You are still the fool. You shut your mouth because all stupidity is coming out.
I think you are the one who needs to wake up. You don't even understand what you are saying. How are you suppose to have an understanding of an deeper meaning? Mr. Elite Professional of Martial Arts.(These are your words) You are complete idiot and sound like Ashida Kim. Another internet warrior aka BryceDawkins.
You are only repeating what has been written in books. The reason why I'm telling you don't know anything is because I live in Japan now. I have met both people we are discussing. (Hatsumi&Tanemura) Have you? I doubt it?
That right there shows people who are listening you are stupid. You think you understand martial arts by simply spitting out everything you read in books about Mr. Tanemura. No one with any real skill calls themselves an elite professional of martial arts. Not even Mr. Tanemura despite his high level of skill. No matter what you call me your own words show everybody your are a fool.
If say someone is the most beautiful on earth and you don't believe it then you are a fool or a liar. If you don't really believe the statements you are making about Mr. Tanemura then why say them. If you don't really believe it then we agree. Why are you arguing and calling people bastards. You are the stupid as dirt.
this is not ninjutsu. It is Kukishin ryu. One of the 9 schools in the Bujinkan(only 3 are ninjutsu)and however many in the Genbukan. Still alot of debate who holds ownership, Shoto or Hatsumi.
There is no debate; they both hold menkyo kaiden in said arts. Tanemura's lineage of arts is a bit more complicated due to his splitting from Hatsumi and seeking out other Takamatsu students (who also held scrolls). It is from Takamatsu that multiple "lines" emerged for some schools.
Tanemura sensei learned kukishinden ryu from Hatsumi. if you look on genbukan dot org. you will see that all of the 'Tanemura-ha' arts are the arts he learned from Hatsumi sensei. he started calling them Tanemura ha after he broke from the bujinkan dojo and Hatsumi sensei. it also has some links that explain why he left the bujinkan.
suffice to say (to the entire world) neither of these men are frauds. the so called conflicting sokeships are not conflicting at all. some are 'Tanemura ha' and some are different lineages, lines or den (branches) ie..why they call it kukishinden ryu, because it is not the original kukishin ryu. but a branch of it. hence the reason neither man is listed as soke of kukishin ryu on any of their websites.
actually he doesn't because hatsumi doesn't have any scrolls in kukishin ryu (at least not related to physical techniques). he has sokeship of a made up ryu called kukishinden happo biken and if i remember correctly he has some amatsu tatara scrolls as well which are pretty important, but do not outlay martial technique. my memory is a bit rusty about amatsu tatara though.
Hm, I would indeed never prefer a weapon since they are all kind of the same, if for example you are at a restaurant and attacked by two guys who are carrying bats, I would ( if the change is there ) use the chair and fight it the same basic way as I would fight with a bo, if there is not such a change I would simply use my arms in the same way, cause the tools we use for it are all extensions from our arms. Ofcourse using only my arms and body I would have to shorten te distance.
Notice how the bo spinning knocks the bokken back. The ends of the bo are kept on his center line, protecting him, with each spin. This is how it's done! Great stuff. I train in the Bujinkan and we do it the same way, naturally.
Well, katas are only the very basic foundations of the skills. By necessity you HAVE to deviate a little bit. Otherwise everyone would have the same styles and attacks. It's knowing when and where to apply certain things that counts.
And yes, I do understand the importance of switching stances, I merely commented on his penchance to keep going for very aggressive stances, which doesn't necessarily goad attacks.
Ok, first of all, none of those techniques are real. Why would someone using a bokken go straight for a leg sweep after a vertical slice? Also, why would he lift his sword in a stance against a bo staff user, thus removing his advantage of extended blade?
As for the bo staff user, why would he use a stance that's raised above his head, thus negating his advantage of reach?
Overall, all of the movements and attacks looked strangely stiff and planned. Crappy demonstration overall.
"Also, why would he lift his sword in a stance against a bo staff user, thus removing his advantage of extended blade?" I'm not trying to be confrontational, but that stance is called jodan no kamae, a very agressive stance that is found in most koryu kenjutsu waza when dealing with a polearm.
"As for the bo staff user, why would he use a stance that's raised above his head, thus negating his advantage of reach?"
That position is called "tensho no kamae" or heaven and earth stance and is actually very applicable to most polearm techniques. You can find it in the Katori system as well as other jojutsu schools like Shinto Ryu.
As for the bokken positions, I am completely aware of what the stances are and what they are good for. Through 13 years of experience I have come to understand (very early on and consistently supported throughout my years of training) that the neutral stance is ALWAYS the safest and most effective stance. Aggression is an important tool, but not at the cost of one's own safety.
As for dealing with a polearm, that stance is negligibly weak, considering it makes the practitioner extremely vulnerable to a simple sweeping attack (if you study the very traditionalist or very modern forms of kendo/bojutsu this is obvious).
I admit that I am not as experience in bo fighting, but I have dabbled in it and, thus far, I have found that the neutral half-length stance is far more useful than any other fancy looking stance. But, like I said, I'm not as experienced in this aspect, so whatever. But, with every martial art I have learned, I have never seen a stance other than the neutral one to ever be truly effective in a bout. Martial arts is about keeping the fight in balance, so it makes no sense to not start in balance.
you bring up some good points, yknow we could argue this until the sun burns out so im sorry for starting a quarrel over theoretical technique without being able to physically practice them with you. good luck in your future training. GANBATTE!
"Martial arts is about keeping the fight in balance, so it makes no sense to not start in balance." It does when you're trying to bait your opponent into a committed attack. If both fighters are in a perfectly guarded stance, neither can launch an effective attack. You have to show an opening and when you do, you will know where your opponent's attack will most likely go. You should try to limit your opponent's options otherwise you can never know what his next attack will be.
13 years is nothing. The techniques demoed were from the Kukishin ryu school and were used in real combat before your fake, trophy plagued karate kid tournaments
Actually, this is the dueling form of bojutsu, so no, it was never used in combat. It was ALWAYS used in sparring matches in "comparisons of techniques", and I was merely commenting on these practitioners' poor implementations of the techniques they learned. They don't seem to have grasped the actual practicality of the moves they are using.
One last thing I'd like to add: I don't think the credibility of my credentials are an issue, and, before you bring it up, those guys' rankings aren't an issue either. Rank has little to do with skill: it's just a formality. And I resent that you call my dojang fake and trophy-plaqued. We've never used kendo for the purpose of getting trophies or shit like that. It's always been for self-improvement.
Dude you have no idea of even what you are looking at. you don'e even know what Japanese bojutsu is. Its not the dueling for you dork. These are kata (no hyung or okinawan kata dojang boy). ths is not that pis poor korean staff work either. These were used in the sengoku jidai era. You even know what that is? i can assure you as well, line up your bo with them and I;me sure they can show you
Kendo is the modern sport form of Kenjutsu, it has nothing to do with real combat either. How about you post some of your shit on the internet so we can all review it then?
Let me break it down real slow, so even a modern trophy boy like yourself can understand. These are Kata of Japanese bojutsu, they were handed down from one generation to another in the form of scrolls, they stemmed from actual combat hundreds of years ago. Its not sport or sparring and they don't wear stats and stripes unifomrs like modern Take Yo Dough
Lol, your complete lack of understanding of what any of this means is tickling. Y'know, forget it. Keep hiding behind your 10-second Wikipediaed research. I don't need to justify this "arguement" with my presence anymore.
Yeah whatever trophy boy. You are obviously that doens't know anything about bojutsu, with your LOL "neutral" stance. Don't you mean neutered stance, because I'me pretty sure if you came up against a real bojutsu man I could guess where all 6 ft of the bo is going. Can anyone say popsicle?
So where are your videos of you doing musical kata to bo, or how about your neutered stance?
*sigh* Okay, this is going to be my last post on this thing. Everything else you say is going to fall on deaf ears.
First, I don't need to justify my skills by taking videos of myself and posting them online. Not only is that arrogant but it speaks for lack of confidence in my ability (namely, that I feel I need to show off to have people affirm to me that I'm good at what I do).
Second, you have an extremely childish attitude when it comes to martial arts, which makes me completely doubt any validity you have in martial arts period. It also makes me sad that there are possibly people like you practicing martial arts out there and defaming it with such childish arrogance.
Third, you would understand that the neutral stance, in any martial art, is about 90% of the time the best stance to at least START with. There's a reason that it's the first and most inferred stance, because it is the most balanced of all stances. Like I said, if you actually knew anything about martial arts, this would be crystal clear. This is first time in the dojang stuff.
Lastly, again, if you were really of the martial arts caliber, you'd realize that using your skills in an pre-emptive manner, like you're suggesting, is a universal no-no. Shame on you.
How many posts does it take you to actually say god bye there trophy boy? How old are you? 20 or 19? I was practicing bojutsu before you were a gleam in your pappy's eye.
When you come on here taling about universal no no's in styles you have never trained in and have no experience in it really maked your immaturity show. I could really care less if you lie what I am sayin and about protocal, because you threw that all out the windw when you come on here talking crap about people who could pound your weeny a@@ with the bo staff.
Tropy boy, if your "music man", honestly my man, you don't look strong enough to pick up a bo, it might be a little heavy for you. Anyone say Devo doing bojutsu. Revenge of the neerd, Revenge of the nerds.
2. The neutral stance is not an American made-up bullshit. Every martial arts has a neutral stance...this is not something I am making up, it is an integral part of the training. What are you talking about? Also, I think you fail to realize I learned for genuine masters, not bullshit belt-ranking assholes who think they know anything.
3. If you REALLY are that much older than me (I'm 18)...well I dunno what to say. I didn't know genuine non-bullshitting adults like you wasted their time arguing martial arts on an obscure topic on YouTube using bullshit points that don't even make sense and use childish comebacks riddled with mind-numbing typos and grammar. You're funny.
In fact, I think I'm going to keep retorting on this post with you until you stop. It's actually become sort of fun. I do like to see these supposed "old-timers" make fools of themselves over nothing.
Let me say Dragz, I have studied martial arts since 1979, and Ninpo since 1986, which includes Kukishin ryu bojutsu, in Japan and abroad. What is the origin of your studies?
One last point Dragz, the kata as shown are not meant to be seen as "sparring" or "dueling", they were combat scenarios that happened and thats the way they are practiced as well now, but the practicioner does not expect to use bojutsu like that in a real time encounter, but each kata contains a Gokui or hidden teaching for the martial artist.
1. I actually did not have the pleasure of learning abroad, but I did learn from a bojutsu grandmaster in Los Angeles. I also regularly practice jeet kune do with various sparring partners (this is not a wholly "official" method of learning I know, but it's been pretty successful so far in MMA situations and stuff.)
2. I can clearly see now that, whether you are telling the truth or not (because every single thing you are saying is easily bsable) we have a radical difference in opinion. You adhere to the "traditionalist" view of adhereing to katas and technique whereas I adhere to a "modernist" view of learning through sparring matches and practical technique.
(Ironically, I could argue that my method is technically more traditionalist considering that that is the origin of many of the katas and techniques you hold very dearly to, but I digress)
In any case, you believe your methodology is better, I believe mine is better. I guess we couldn't really know unless we had a match, but I don't think that's plausibly arrangable.
3. Your first used term is Kukishin ryu Bojutsu? C'mon...that's in the damn title of this video. That's like answering a question on a test with part of the question. Although...I really don't care at this point: it's extremely easy for anyone to just Wikipedia the terms and toss them out for brownie points anyway.
In any case, if you respond, which I'm sure you'll do, forgive any belated reply, considering I am going to be busy for a bit. Toodles.
P.S. I'm not saying either method is better than the other...actually, I kind of AM saying mine is better, but that's just my opinion, and I can't be sure of it until I've seen you actually sparring, eh?
Also, FYI, I loathe tournaments. Only ever been to one.
The bowing at the start is called reih-ho as in seiza rei, the kamae by the bo man is Jodan no Kamae, the swordsman is in Seigan no kamae, the spinning of the staff is called Hoshi Furi Gata, the strikes to the body are called do uchi, the strikes to the head are called tento uchi and men uchi,one of the patterns show is called GoHo, or the five ways. Some of the schools shown and related are Hontai Kukishin ryu, Tenshin Hyohi ryu, etc. Do I need to continue?
Yes as far as Jeet Kune Do goes, I looked at studied on the subjet many years before you were born, and to be honest have never been impressed, not saying its bad, not just my cup of tea though. Always been a big Bruce Lee fan, but feel those types of arts are not that great.
Well, my primary reasoning for picking up jeet kune do was for learning more effective hand-to-hand combat in the absence of a weapon, although I think that it's pretty much been extendable to any martial art I've tried. It's terribly fun if you just want to have freestyle sparring sessions.
Also, sparring is a very traditional concept. After all, that was how dojos compared techniques with one another.
"Sparring" is not a traditional concept at all in Japanese Bujutsu and is more akin to modern korean oint sytems(been there done that) In the Edo period i Japan there were alot of challenge matches(all out), but they were all out. There was no bouncing around, round house kicks and spinning back kicks, points etc.
In Japanese bujutsu, there are no rules, it was life and death. Sparring, UFC type matches, etc are sports and not Bujutsu because of the rules involved.
When two people even meet at a predetermined place and time and decide on restrictions to there encounter it is sport True traditional arts are there to protect you from they guy that is trying to rob you, maim,and kill you or your loved ones.
True combat has no rules, no weight classes and no referee to save you. True, older, traditional arts from Japan are not like this. Randori and resistance training is useful, but its a different concept than modern "sparring"
In respects to sparring, that is attributed to modern sportive arts, that are not Japanese bujutsu. We do randori. Which includes strikes and grappling.
Your basing you comments off of limited experience in different systems that really have no parrallel. Eveything your saying, such as the "neutral" stance, etc points to a lack of knowledge in traditional arts. It also points to the fact that your teachers are making up things as they go.
Mm...not really. Just because I don't use traditional terms (I'd like you to name some for me btw) doesn't mean I don't understand how they work. In fact, I probably have a better fundamental understanding of what the meanings of the teachings of bojutsu are than you do because you seem to be stuck on terms and formalities rather than the spirit of the art. Quite a shame, considering how much younger I am supposedly than you are.
The first term I would use would be the name of the school these kata are demonstrated from which are Kukishin Ryu Bojutsu. As I already explained to you they were used in combat hundreds of years ago, the only techniques that survived to be recorded in the densho and makimono were ones that worked, the others didn't make it.
You have to understand the principles that the kata are teaching before you get the spirit of the art. The only way to do that is to practice the kata properly and not try to modify it because it "didn't work" for you. If you don't know how to get it to work, the problem is your teacher or your training, not the kata. Eventually, you can practice using the principles in randori or sparring training. There is a purpose for every kamae or "stance". The kata show us these.
Dragz, just because you learn the terms and names of the teachings as well as the formalities, thats a good thing, not a bad thing, many of the secret meanings of the technqiues were even actually hidden in the names, that only the initiated could understand
This guy is awesome
101whalesushi 5 months ago
genbukan, bujinkan, whatever, kukishin ryu ROCKS EPICLY, that is the important point
great video guys
KhedK 6 months ago
The "screams" are called kiai, and are part of this kata. They have a purpose in that they help project the fighting spirit, and also help shake the opponent.
brownsound1 1 year ago
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brownsound1 1 year ago
the screams put me off at the beginning, but this guy has awesome bo skills. wish i was that good. i can only imagine how long he had to train to be this familiar with his weapon. its like its part of his body or something.
superdruid999 1 year ago
I've read about the Genbukan and the rank system (10th kyu - 10th dan) but what is involved in the first rank testing in Genbukan?? What fundamentals does somebody have to become good at to progress further??
SketcherM 1 year ago
@SketcherM Well the very first rank test is basically ukemi (rolls and breakfalls) and several different types of rei-ho (bows). You must first learn to fall correctly or you will injure yourself, so this is very important. Also, learning proper manners with the bows is also extremely important. Manners is the most important thing according to Tanemura Soke. On the Genbukan website there are links for the syllabus of each kyu level, so you can see for yourself the names of the techniques.
brownsound1 1 year ago
@brownsound1....Thanks a lot for the help man. I checked the website and I noticed two techniques in the 10th kyu syllabus towards the end of the page( zenpo tenkai and koho tenkai). Is it a requirement for a beginner to know how to do the handsprings even they have no previous martial art/gymnastics experience? And what is the purpose of these techniques, would you use them in combat??
SketcherM 1 year ago
@SketcherM I wouldn't worry too much about those two techniques. They are included as part of the syllabus for that level, but not being able to perform those two will not effect your test...as in they are optional techniques. If you read other materials you'll see it says "it is of no importance if a person can perform zenpo tenkai or koho tenkai." The purpose of them is to get the hell out of the way, and yes they could be used in combat.
brownsound1 1 year ago
@SketcherM
Unlike bujinkan which rank is being given like banana In genbukan knowledge is the key to get rank.
I don't insult budo taijutsu members , I'm Nidan in Bujinkan too. But in my life i saw really bad things from bujinkan and how high ranking masters of bujinkan are giving people rank for business .
In genbukan you can train whatever ninpo schools you want, but your ranks are not recognized by Genbukan
azarbadegan 1 year ago
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LedZeppieFreak 1 year ago
@azarbadegan I wouldn't say you can train in whatever ninpo schools you want, because that is strictly forbidden per the membership rules.
brownsound1 1 year ago
Actually, in the Genbukan, weapons are taught and ranked separately from your taijutsu ranking. Your also taught more than three weapons, but you only rank in bikenjutsu and bojutsu/hanbojutsu.
brownsound1 1 year ago
If you are in the Bujinkan, then you are not supposed to train with any other ninpo organization either. That is a rule from Hatsumi himself.
brownsound1 1 year ago
wow nice bo technique feirce wow i would love to study this style of ninpo
bajanninja 1 year ago
As far as I have researched, the Jinenkan supposedly focuses on mastery of the fundamental techniques of Taijutsu, I am not too familiar with how they teach weapons. As of now, I would like to train Bujinkan and Jinenkan. Whatever system you choose, at the end of your journey you will have learned pretty much the same skills, but the path is different. Either way, people should stop arguing and not worry so much about how other people train, Ninjutsu is great, whatever the organization.
tonydelacruz45 1 year ago
No one is saying what happened between Hatsumi and Tanemura, but I do know they had some misunderstandings, and most likely it was personal issues, but either way, Tanemura was in the Bujinkan at one point, and so was Manaka of the Jinenkan. Between all 3 of the systems, they do pretty much the same thing, but it is structured quite differently. The Genbukan teaches 2-3 weapons to get to black belt, the sword, and Hanbo, and Bo. Bujinkan teaches about 10, but your knowledge is basic.
tonydelacruz45 1 year ago
The Genbukan is a great organization, as well as the Jinenkan, I am with the Bujinkan right now, and yes it is true that no 2 dojos do the same thing. One of my issues with the Genbukan is that it is a little bit too strict at times, if you train Genbukan, you are not allowed to train in the Jinenkan or Bujinkan. One of the highest ranked Jinenkan students in the US is making an association for everyone, regardless of previous associations to train in, I think that this is great.
tonydelacruz45 1 year ago
@fardisghomeshi No such thing as developing your own thing? That's exactly what Hatsumi has done. If you think he is teaching the art as Takamatsu did then you are sadly mistaken.
brownsound1 1 year ago
tan left bujinkan so he is no longer part of or a representative of the arts.
fardisghomeshi 1 year ago
@fardisghomeshi While Tanemura Soke did leave the Bujinkan, he is representative of the arts. He received menkyo kaiden in 6 of the 9 Bujinkan ryu-ha, as well as receiving menkyo kaiden in other arts from Takamatsu sensei from other students such as Sato Kinbei sensei, Kimura sensei, etc. He has every right to teach and represent ninpo.
brownsound1 1 year ago
@brownsound i dont doubt his skills but once a personn leave hatsumi's teachings or guidance they are no longer progressing in the art hence no longer a part or reprsentive of it. hatsumi with all his skills ans experience is still learning from his old teacher.i think if you want to represent the art you should be still part it and learnig from hatsumi.
fardisghomeshi 1 year ago
@fardisghomeshi Time out, you do realize that Hatsumi's teacher, Takamatsu Sensei, died in 1972. Tanemura soke received full transmissions (menkyo kaiden) in Koto Ryu, Gyokko Ryu, Togakure Ryu, Kukishin Ryu, Takagi Yoshin Ryu, and Shinden Fudo Ryu from Hatsumi. He also received a menkyo kaiden in Togakure ryu from Fukumoto Yoshio sensei, who was also a student of Takamatsu sensei. So how much more are you going to progress after you receive the full transmission of the art?
brownsound1 1 year ago
@fardisghomeshi Also, Tanemura Soke has received sokeship of Gikan ryu..has the scrolls to prove it, so that's 7 of the 9 ryu ha supposed taught in the Bujinkan. Tanemura Soke has continued to seek out instruction since leaving the Bujinkan, and has studied MANY arts, and received mastership licenses in them from other direct students of Takamatsu sensei in things that aren't even taught in the Bujikan, but came from Takamatsu.
brownsound1 1 year ago
@brownsound1 he has to be under hatsumi.
fardisghomeshi 1 year ago
@fardisghomeshi No he doesn't have to be under Hatsumi. You obviously don't understand what menkyo kaiden means...total transmission, as in complete. How do you think so many ryu-ha have been started over the years? Someone receives menkyo kaiden, then leaves their teacher to develop their own thing. Look up the meaning of "shu ha ri."
brownsound1 1 year ago
@brownsound1 the art is just barely alive.there is no such thing as developing your own thing.i see your point for me i like to stay with a treacher till the end.there are lots of pitfalls a teacher can fall into during his training i like to avoid those.tan has skills but i know thngs about him that would make u think diffrently about him.if its not hatsumi then its nothing.
fardisghomeshi 1 year ago
A person who wields a sword is called a swordsman. What do you call a person who wields a bo staff?
philosophermike 1 year ago
probably the only decent genbukan video I've ever seen.
chucknorrispranks 2 years ago
At least these guys actually earned their ranks, unlike some other organizations I can think of.
brownsound1 2 years ago
lol...I couldn't agree more. Bujis are trash the majority of the time and completely pull their rank out of their ass.
chucknorrispranks 2 years ago
Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinenkan are ALL GREAT. HANDS DOWN.
MyoushinRyuNinjutsu 2 years ago
So whats the difference between the Bujinkan and the Genbukan?
5TR33T 2 years ago
The Genbukan follows a strict syllabus by which gradings are done, and puts a great amount of emphasis on doing things in a strict, traditional format. The Bujinkan is all over the place as an organization on grading, and you'd be hard pressed to find two dojo who do the same thing. The Genbukan also has a sister organization (KJJR) that trains in various jujutsu ryuha that aren't taught in the Bujinkan.
brownsound1 2 years ago 14
Kl thnx for the reply
5TR33T 2 years ago
Amazing technique.
Haku92292 2 years ago 2
jwills yo are very close minded and you need to realize all aspects and forms of martial arts study. Some study theory and idea you study the actuall technique. There is nothing wrong with either. Keeping an open mind in my view is Tanemura's only weakness. Although his techniques are spectacular he can expand his skills by so much by studying newer or more unorthodox technuiqes. However he his techniques have worked so far so until they are somehow redered useless he should keep things the same
UrielVentrice 2 years ago
How do you know Tanemura Soke isn't studying newer, unorthodoxed techniques?
Please not that what you're watching here is traditional martial arts, but within the Genbukan there is also the study of Goshinjutsu which is how to apply these traditional techniques to all kinds of attacks. Instructors may also add to that particular curriculum as well.
brownsound1 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
How have his "techniques" worked you asshole? Where and when did he actually use them against non-compliant, resisting opponents? Where is the evidence that this fraud has ever fought anyone even once in his life? You're a fucking credulous fool if you believe this total bunk; go fuck yourself.
Blndrfist 2 years ago
He used traditional jujutsu and goshinjutsu whilst a Tokyo police officer. Criminals are known for being "noncompliant".
pacificimporters 2 years ago 3
Bullshit. His techniques don't fucking work you retard. If they did, it would be easy for him to show them against a non-compliant student. We will never see that; because how else will he be able to dazzle losers such as you.
Blndrfist 2 years ago
You deny that he was a police officer? It's hard to demonstrate true sword fighting techniques against a non-compliant opponent - the result would be kendo
pacificimporters 2 years ago
What the fuck does it matter if he was a police officer? It doesn't matter a goddamn bit; that is the logical fallacy of argument from authority. His bullshit either works or it does not. If all he can show is a compliant retard demonstration and he cannot show these same moves and dramatic bullshit against a non-compliant opponent, then guess what idiot? It doesn't work!
Blndrfist 2 years ago
It matters because he was a police officer and used true martial arts in true situations, whereas you are arguing on the internet. Who are people gonna believe?
pacificimporters 2 years ago 3
I'm not going to believe him; he has to prove it. Just because someone tells you something doesn't mean it's true you idiot. If he is such an expert, let's see his techniques, just as we see demonstrated here, against a non-compliant opponent. It will never happen.
Blndrfist 2 years ago
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pacificimporters 2 years ago 7
Where are your videos, oh master of fighting arts? Like I told you before, he'll be in Kitchener, Ontario September 19 and 20th. Go challenge him, or even better challenge the person in this video who's name is James Wright, he'll be there as well. I say you're chicken shit.
brownsound1 2 years ago
Hahahahaha Shihan Wright is a beast and he hurts like hell, trust me. I agree with Brownsound1, This is for Blndrfist, I guarantee you wouldn't need Tanemura Soke to prove his worth, Just test it on his Shihan especially Shihan Wright. LMAO you REALLY dont understand...
Ongyokage6389 2 years ago
hello and sorry for the intrusion but I am also a police officer in my country and not all police oficers work in the streets catching bad guys. In fact he could have worked at desk or in an non-operative compartiment. Anyway I respect both Bujinkan and Genbukan.
enemarius 2 years ago
I believe Tanemura Soke was on the riot and anti-terrorist squad, then eventually becoming a police self defense instructor.
brownsound1 2 years ago
You "belive"? Do you have any official sources to back that up? In my country both Public Order and Special Intervention Units are made of tall strong men. I am not saying Tanemura isn't good at what he does but he doesnt fit the profile for such a "job"!
marya4u2006 2 years ago
The info is included in several written bios of Tanemura Soke. I said, "I believe" because I was recalling from memory what I had read. One other thing, unless your country is Japan, then I'd say it doesn't matter that all of the Special Intervention Units are tall and strong guys. If you are that concerned, and question it so much, write the Tokyo Metropolitan Police and ask.
brownsound1 2 years ago
Bios written by himself? Point me to some authentic biography please. Oh and ALL of the other countries Special forces are made up by strong people who pass certain endurance tests. But I guess that in Japan the intervention forces is made out of midgets since their population is made small people.I am not that concerned about this Tanemura fellow because he doesent impress me that much, but its people like you who brag about him that he was this special police agent.maybe working behind a desk.
enemarius 2 years ago
Like I said, go ask the Tokyo Metropolitan Police if you would like verification. They would certainly have the info to prove or disprove the claim. The minimum requirement for national police in Japan is 5'2" 110 lbs. Their Kidotai would obviously be on average bigger than that, but probably not like here in the US or other countries. The riot section doesn't even carry firearms. Of course how many riots does Japan have...
brownsound1 2 years ago
@marya4u2006 tanemura might not be very tall but if you think he's not strong go to saitama and let him deck you in the face for making such a stupid comment, i'm sure you'll reevaluate what your idea of strong is
itsumonihon 1 year ago
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brownsound1 2 years ago
such clean bojutsu skill, i love kukishin ryu stuff...pure samurai brutality.
its a shame theres pretty much no good video of kukishin kenjutsu on the internet that i can find..
chucknorrispranks 2 years ago
excelent,bo is one of my favorites
shinobivandal 3 years ago
Bujikan looks sooooo fake. And Hatsumi's bujikan rules piss me off. I can't wait to take Genbukan.
MartialArts4Ever 3 years ago 3
All how its trained...I must admit though, there isn't enough quality control, but not all Bujinkan is bad.
KiddReige 3 years ago
Bella impostazione ed eleganza, quasi simile alla Disciplina di Uguale od Opposto.
Ciao
Gyosephildo 3 years ago
Tanemura is the best martial artist I have seen. I doesn´t matter Bujinkan has a lot of schools, videos and scrolls. It has to do with the techinique. Tanemura has Samurai blood and if you see his videos, you will se the great difference, he´s the closest thing to a Samurai, it´s like seeing the past. You can see his movements are perfect, he doesn´t struggle like Hatsumi, when Tanemura attacks, he attacks, when he grabs, he grabs. Period.
BryceDawkins 3 years ago
Thank you, thank you, thank you, finally someone sees the difference.
jocelyndownie 3 years ago
Mr. Dawkins, Who do you think taught him most of those techniques? Mr. Hatsumi! His training withthe other teachers is quite short compared to the training with Mr. Hatsumi. Also Mr. Hatsumi fights like a person reaching 80 yrs old, like he is suppose to. I would like to see you move better at his age.
jwills79 3 years ago
Mr. Ignorant.
Do you really think I speak of things I do not know? I have been perfectly well informed about Hatsumi and Tanemura. Shoto Tanemura studied with Takamatsu and many senior students of him after he died. There is a picture where Shoto Tanemura is with Takamatsu. And Takamatsu is performing a technique on Shoto in another picture. If you are not such an ignorant, you know a grandmaster would not attack a normal student, Shoto was a high student.
BryceDawkins 3 years ago
Shoto Tanemura has the BEST technique in Ninpo and Jujutsu on Earth. I you cannot see, you are blind. Hatsumi struggles when he does something and constantly fails. Shoto Tanemura´s technique is ALWAYS perfect and definitive, he does not struggle at all. Any person that did some exercise during his life could move like Hatsumi...
BryceDawkins 3 years ago
I hope this helps you to understand: Shoto Tanemura can TODAY at his age jump from a very high tree, land and roll. NO ONE on earth is able to do that. Hatsumi was in Bujinkan some years, and then he created Genbukan a WAY MORE traditional martial arts school. Bujinkan has no discipline, Genbukan has an enourmous discipline. Most of the members of the Bujinkan are weak and slow. The senior students of Genbukan are BETTER than the special forces of any country.
BryceDawkins 3 years ago
It does not matter if Hatsumi thought many techniques to Tanemura. The fact is that Hatsumi does not understand how to use them, and Tanemura does. A teacher can teach you math, but he will be a normal teacher for ever, you can get the nobel prize althought he teached you math. This is the case of Tanemura.
BryceDawkins 3 years ago
Shoto Tanemura created Genbukan obviously, not Hatsumi. I was typing too fast...
BryceDawkins 3 years ago
You think the students of Tanemura can beat all the Special forces on the planet? Have you met all the Special forces on the planet. Special Forces, are people, who have actually killed people for a living. Why don't you ask Tanemura and his group who has killed a person before? Once again your comments show your ignorance. You seem to be quite young as well.
jwills79 3 years ago
Bryce your comments sound like a fool living in fairytale land. Best on the Planet!!! have you actually met everyone on the planet? Do you really think he is the only person who can fall from high tree and roll. If watch the original discovery channel special you can see it was his student who fell from the high tree and back rolled. That right there shows your ignorance and obvious stupidity.
jwills79 3 years ago
No, they sound like that because you seem to be under the influence of some kind of drug. Or maybe you are just an ignorant like I said. You see... Ignorant people has always believed that something they could not understand had to do something with magic, this is your case. Your retarded brain block you from seeing nothing is absolute, when I say no one, it doesn´t mean actually no one, like superman.
BryceDawkins 3 years ago
If I say, that woman is the most beautiful on earth, it doesn´t actually mean, that among over 3 billion women on Earth, she is the most beautiful one. You have no abstraction, you are like a block of ice. Whoever intelligent person that is able to look at your comments can predict you are a person used to close people´s mouth, this is not my case, I alwaya win my discussions because I give argument, unlike you, that compares me with fairy tales.
BryceDawkins 3 years ago
Understand I am not an amateur. I am a elite professional of martial arts. You have very serious issues, I never said the senior students of Tanemura could beat the speacil forces of ANY planet. You sick bastar... I said, they were better than most of them, meaning their fitness obviously. For ninjas have no firearms...
BryceDawkins 3 years ago
Killing doesn´t not give you power you ignorant. The willpower not to kill is what gives you true power. Shoto Tanemura has been mugged, or at least they tried, over 10 Yakuza and he beat them, WITHOUT killing anyone, that´s a TRUE grandmaster. People who haven´t had any real martial arts training can´t understand the level of people like Tanemura. When I didn´t know anything, I say punches, and throws like it was nothing, now that I´ve felt them, I can see how hard is it.
BryceDawkins 3 years ago
Conclusion: Genbukan has the most elite martial arts system on Earth. Since I have to explain it to you... Mabe some old man in India inside the rainforest is better, WE DON´T KNOW. Tanemura offers teaching of hand to hand, hand to knife, knife to knife, sword, long stick, short stick, chain, naginata, throwing stars, throwing sticks, throwing cards, etc... If you are seeing the evidence right here of the level of the Genbukan members, Why can´t you accept Tanemura is one of the best on Earth?
BryceDawkins 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Conclusion: Genbukan has the most elite martial arts system on Earth. Since I have to explain it to you... Mabe some old man in India inside the rainforest is better, WE DON´T KNOW. Tanemura offers teaching of hand to hand, hand to knife, knife to knife, sword, long stick, short stick, chain, naginata, throwing stars, throwing sticks, throwing cards, etc... If you are seeing the evidence right here of the level of the Genbukan members, Why can´t you accept Tanemura is one of the best on Earth?
BryceDawkins 3 years ago
And lastly... Remember you were the one that attacked Tanemura´s technique...
BryceDawkins 3 years ago
You are stupid because when you say something is absolute and don't believe it then it is false or a lie. So you are a stupid bastard because you don't understand the words you are using. Are you a native English speaker or just a young ignorant person. Once again how do you know if they are better than other elite groups? Have you trained with them?.....NO probably not.
jwills79 3 years ago
You are just a piece of garbage asshole, close your fucking mouth. You keep spitting words giving no argument. You copy the things I say, and you are uncapable to understand. Wake up asshole.
BryceDawkins 3 years ago
I have given an argument for everything you have said. The problem is you can't give a good counter argument. You have been saying all these things you admit you don't believe. You are starting to realize you are wrong. Now you are getting really upset and name calling instead saying something intelligent. You are still the fool. You shut your mouth because all stupidity is coming out.
jwills79 3 years ago
I think you are the one who needs to wake up. You don't even understand what you are saying. How are you suppose to have an understanding of an deeper meaning? Mr. Elite Professional of Martial Arts.(These are your words) You are complete idiot and sound like Ashida Kim. Another internet warrior aka BryceDawkins.
jwills79 3 years ago 2
You are only repeating what has been written in books. The reason why I'm telling you don't know anything is because I live in Japan now. I have met both people we are discussing. (Hatsumi&Tanemura) Have you? I doubt it?
jwills79 3 years ago
That right there shows people who are listening you are stupid. You think you understand martial arts by simply spitting out everything you read in books about Mr. Tanemura. No one with any real skill calls themselves an elite professional of martial arts. Not even Mr. Tanemura despite his high level of skill. No matter what you call me your own words show everybody your are a fool.
jwills79 3 years ago
If say someone is the most beautiful on earth and you don't believe it then you are a fool or a liar. If you don't really believe the statements you are making about Mr. Tanemura then why say them. If you don't really believe it then we agree. Why are you arguing and calling people bastards. You are the stupid as dirt.
jwills79 3 years ago
Awcome!! 10 out of 10
genbukanninja 4 years ago
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williamiscrazy 4 years ago
this is not ninjutsu. It is Kukishin ryu. One of the 9 schools in the Bujinkan(only 3 are ninjutsu)and however many in the Genbukan. Still alot of debate who holds ownership, Shoto or Hatsumi.
I
sullivan92604 4 years ago
There is no debate; they both hold menkyo kaiden in said arts. Tanemura's lineage of arts is a bit more complicated due to his splitting from Hatsumi and seeking out other Takamatsu students (who also held scrolls). It is from Takamatsu that multiple "lines" emerged for some schools.
EvilWays316 4 years ago
Tanemura sensei learned kukishinden ryu from Hatsumi. if you look on genbukan dot org. you will see that all of the 'Tanemura-ha' arts are the arts he learned from Hatsumi sensei. he started calling them Tanemura ha after he broke from the bujinkan dojo and Hatsumi sensei. it also has some links that explain why he left the bujinkan.
kempobrad 4 years ago 2
suffice to say (to the entire world) neither of these men are frauds. the so called conflicting sokeships are not conflicting at all. some are 'Tanemura ha' and some are different lineages, lines or den (branches) ie..why they call it kukishinden ryu, because it is not the original kukishin ryu. but a branch of it. hence the reason neither man is listed as soke of kukishin ryu on any of their websites.
kempobrad 4 years ago 3
well dont you know your shit
YourFavouriteSkater 4 years ago
actually he doesn't because hatsumi doesn't have any scrolls in kukishin ryu (at least not related to physical techniques). he has sokeship of a made up ryu called kukishinden happo biken and if i remember correctly he has some amatsu tatara scrolls as well which are pretty important, but do not outlay martial technique. my memory is a bit rusty about amatsu tatara though.
itsumonihon 3 years ago
the katas are terribly slow, but I'd hate to fight the guy with the bo. Personally I prefer the jo for better movement, but a bo has its charm
jaasien 4 years ago
I wouldn't suggest picking favorites with weapons when it comes to fighting
seathswift 4 years ago
Hm, I would indeed never prefer a weapon since they are all kind of the same, if for example you are at a restaurant and attacked by two guys who are carrying bats, I would ( if the change is there ) use the chair and fight it the same basic way as I would fight with a bo, if there is not such a change I would simply use my arms in the same way, cause the tools we use for it are all extensions from our arms. Ofcourse using only my arms and body I would have to shorten te distance.
tommyfirewire 4 years ago
everyone has a favorite though, just dont ignore any of the others.
kempobrad 4 years ago
Very impressive!
PMACoralSprings 4 years ago
Notice how the bo spinning knocks the bokken back. The ends of the bo are kept on his center line, protecting him, with each spin. This is how it's done! Great stuff. I train in the Bujinkan and we do it the same way, naturally.
dbonanno 4 years ago
Well, katas are only the very basic foundations of the skills. By necessity you HAVE to deviate a little bit. Otherwise everyone would have the same styles and attacks. It's knowing when and where to apply certain things that counts.
And yes, I do understand the importance of switching stances, I merely commented on his penchance to keep going for very aggressive stances, which doesn't necessarily goad attacks.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
Smoothest bojutsu ever.
Idiedintothe 4 years ago
Drag, try some free sparring. Your speculation is flawed, and text won't really show why. That said, it does look a bit over-acted.
JinsukeHP 5 years ago
o_O
Ok, first of all, none of those techniques are real. Why would someone using a bokken go straight for a leg sweep after a vertical slice? Also, why would he lift his sword in a stance against a bo staff user, thus removing his advantage of extended blade?
As for the bo staff user, why would he use a stance that's raised above his head, thus negating his advantage of reach?
Overall, all of the movements and attacks looked strangely stiff and planned. Crappy demonstration overall.
DRaGZ141 5 years ago
A demo or kata is planned. They could have just gone for it, but then training is put on hold a while to nurse a shattered wrist.
esubadog 5 years ago
"Also, why would he lift his sword in a stance against a bo staff user, thus removing his advantage of extended blade?" I'm not trying to be confrontational, but that stance is called jodan no kamae, a very agressive stance that is found in most koryu kenjutsu waza when dealing with a polearm.
EishinRyu 4 years ago
"As for the bo staff user, why would he use a stance that's raised above his head, thus negating his advantage of reach?"
That position is called "tensho no kamae" or heaven and earth stance and is actually very applicable to most polearm techniques. You can find it in the Katori system as well as other jojutsu schools like Shinto Ryu.
EishinRyu 4 years ago
I'm aware of the positions, but in terms of practicality, they are useless (if you go to any martial arts tournaments, you'd see why).
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
As for the bokken positions, I am completely aware of what the stances are and what they are good for. Through 13 years of experience I have come to understand (very early on and consistently supported throughout my years of training) that the neutral stance is ALWAYS the safest and most effective stance. Aggression is an important tool, but not at the cost of one's own safety.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
As for dealing with a polearm, that stance is negligibly weak, considering it makes the practitioner extremely vulnerable to a simple sweeping attack (if you study the very traditionalist or very modern forms of kendo/bojutsu this is obvious).
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
I admit that I am not as experience in bo fighting, but I have dabbled in it and, thus far, I have found that the neutral half-length stance is far more useful than any other fancy looking stance. But, like I said, I'm not as experienced in this aspect, so whatever. But, with every martial art I have learned, I have never seen a stance other than the neutral one to ever be truly effective in a bout. Martial arts is about keeping the fight in balance, so it makes no sense to not start in balance.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
you bring up some good points, yknow we could argue this until the sun burns out so im sorry for starting a quarrel over theoretical technique without being able to physically practice them with you. good luck in your future training. GANBATTE!
EishinRyu 4 years ago
"Martial arts is about keeping the fight in balance, so it makes no sense to not start in balance." It does when you're trying to bait your opponent into a committed attack. If both fighters are in a perfectly guarded stance, neither can launch an effective attack. You have to show an opening and when you do, you will know where your opponent's attack will most likely go. You should try to limit your opponent's options otherwise you can never know what his next attack will be.
dbonanno 4 years ago
13 years is nothing. The techniques demoed were from the Kukishin ryu school and were used in real combat before your fake, trophy plagued karate kid tournaments
tessa2003 4 years ago
Actually, this is the dueling form of bojutsu, so no, it was never used in combat. It was ALWAYS used in sparring matches in "comparisons of techniques", and I was merely commenting on these practitioners' poor implementations of the techniques they learned. They don't seem to have grasped the actual practicality of the moves they are using.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
One last thing I'd like to add: I don't think the credibility of my credentials are an issue, and, before you bring it up, those guys' rankings aren't an issue either. Rank has little to do with skill: it's just a formality. And I resent that you call my dojang fake and trophy-plaqued. We've never used kendo for the purpose of getting trophies or shit like that. It's always been for self-improvement.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
Dude you have no idea of even what you are looking at. you don'e even know what Japanese bojutsu is. Its not the dueling for you dork. These are kata (no hyung or okinawan kata dojang boy). ths is not that pis poor korean staff work either. These were used in the sengoku jidai era. You even know what that is? i can assure you as well, line up your bo with them and I;me sure they can show you
tessa2003 4 years ago
Kendo is the modern sport form of Kenjutsu, it has nothing to do with real combat either. How about you post some of your shit on the internet so we can all review it then?
tessa2003 4 years ago
Let me break it down real slow, so even a modern trophy boy like yourself can understand. These are Kata of Japanese bojutsu, they were handed down from one generation to another in the form of scrolls, they stemmed from actual combat hundreds of years ago. Its not sport or sparring and they don't wear stats and stripes unifomrs like modern Take Yo Dough
tessa2003 4 years ago
Lol, your complete lack of understanding of what any of this means is tickling. Y'know, forget it. Keep hiding behind your 10-second Wikipediaed research. I don't need to justify this "arguement" with my presence anymore.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
Yeah whatever trophy boy. You are obviously that doens't know anything about bojutsu, with your LOL "neutral" stance. Don't you mean neutered stance, because I'me pretty sure if you came up against a real bojutsu man I could guess where all 6 ft of the bo is going. Can anyone say popsicle?
So where are your videos of you doing musical kata to bo, or how about your neutered stance?
tessa2003 4 years ago
*sigh* Okay, this is going to be my last post on this thing. Everything else you say is going to fall on deaf ears.
First, I don't need to justify my skills by taking videos of myself and posting them online. Not only is that arrogant but it speaks for lack of confidence in my ability (namely, that I feel I need to show off to have people affirm to me that I'm good at what I do).
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
Second, you have an extremely childish attitude when it comes to martial arts, which makes me completely doubt any validity you have in martial arts period. It also makes me sad that there are possibly people like you practicing martial arts out there and defaming it with such childish arrogance.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
Third, you would understand that the neutral stance, in any martial art, is about 90% of the time the best stance to at least START with. There's a reason that it's the first and most inferred stance, because it is the most balanced of all stances. Like I said, if you actually knew anything about martial arts, this would be crystal clear. This is first time in the dojang stuff.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
Lastly, again, if you were really of the martial arts caliber, you'd realize that using your skills in an pre-emptive manner, like you're suggesting, is a universal no-no. Shame on you.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
How many posts does it take you to actually say god bye there trophy boy? How old are you? 20 or 19? I was practicing bojutsu before you were a gleam in your pappy's eye.
tessa2003 4 years ago
When you come on here taling about universal no no's in styles you have never trained in and have no experience in it really maked your immaturity show. I could really care less if you lie what I am sayin and about protocal, because you threw that all out the windw when you come on here talking crap about people who could pound your weeny a@@ with the bo staff.
tessa2003 4 years ago
Lastly your "neutral" stance is just some made up american bulshit
tessa2003 4 years ago
Tropy boy, if your "music man", honestly my man, you don't look strong enough to pick up a bo, it might be a little heavy for you. Anyone say Devo doing bojutsu. Revenge of the neerd, Revenge of the nerds.
tessa2003 4 years ago
Dangit...I couldn't help it. But I AM going to just clarify a few thing and now listen to your pasty-faced insults:
1. I'm not the "Music Man". That's a mockumentary I was doing. Thanks for noticing though.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
2. The neutral stance is not an American made-up bullshit. Every martial arts has a neutral stance...this is not something I am making up, it is an integral part of the training. What are you talking about? Also, I think you fail to realize I learned for genuine masters, not bullshit belt-ranking assholes who think they know anything.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
3. If you REALLY are that much older than me (I'm 18)...well I dunno what to say. I didn't know genuine non-bullshitting adults like you wasted their time arguing martial arts on an obscure topic on YouTube using bullshit points that don't even make sense and use childish comebacks riddled with mind-numbing typos and grammar. You're funny.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
In fact, I think I'm going to keep retorting on this post with you until you stop. It's actually become sort of fun. I do like to see these supposed "old-timers" make fools of themselves over nothing.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
Ha ha, now run along and go play with your tinker sized bo, tropy boy
tessa2003 4 years ago
Damn...you really got me there pal. I feel so terrible now. Ow-wee.
Can't even make a properly biting response. What a shame...I have overestimated you greatly.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
No..what you under estimate are arts that you have no experience in, such as traditional Japanese bojutsu
tessa2003 4 years ago
Let me say Dragz, I have studied martial arts since 1979, and Ninpo since 1986, which includes Kukishin ryu bojutsu, in Japan and abroad. What is the origin of your studies?
tessa2003 4 years ago
One last point Dragz, the kata as shown are not meant to be seen as "sparring" or "dueling", they were combat scenarios that happened and thats the way they are practiced as well now, but the practicioner does not expect to use bojutsu like that in a real time encounter, but each kata contains a Gokui or hidden teaching for the martial artist.
tessa2003 4 years ago
Okay a few points:
1. I actually did not have the pleasure of learning abroad, but I did learn from a bojutsu grandmaster in Los Angeles. I also regularly practice jeet kune do with various sparring partners (this is not a wholly "official" method of learning I know, but it's been pretty successful so far in MMA situations and stuff.)
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
2. I can clearly see now that, whether you are telling the truth or not (because every single thing you are saying is easily bsable) we have a radical difference in opinion. You adhere to the "traditionalist" view of adhereing to katas and technique whereas I adhere to a "modernist" view of learning through sparring matches and practical technique.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
(Ironically, I could argue that my method is technically more traditionalist considering that that is the origin of many of the katas and techniques you hold very dearly to, but I digress)
In any case, you believe your methodology is better, I believe mine is better. I guess we couldn't really know unless we had a match, but I don't think that's plausibly arrangable.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
3. Your first used term is Kukishin ryu Bojutsu? C'mon...that's in the damn title of this video. That's like answering a question on a test with part of the question. Although...I really don't care at this point: it's extremely easy for anyone to just Wikipedia the terms and toss them out for brownie points anyway.
In any case, if you respond, which I'm sure you'll do, forgive any belated reply, considering I am going to be busy for a bit. Toodles.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
P.S. I'm not saying either method is better than the other...actually, I kind of AM saying mine is better, but that's just my opinion, and I can't be sure of it until I've seen you actually sparring, eh?
Also, FYI, I loathe tournaments. Only ever been to one.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
The bowing at the start is called reih-ho as in seiza rei, the kamae by the bo man is Jodan no Kamae, the swordsman is in Seigan no kamae, the spinning of the staff is called Hoshi Furi Gata, the strikes to the body are called do uchi, the strikes to the head are called tento uchi and men uchi,one of the patterns show is called GoHo, or the five ways. Some of the schools shown and related are Hontai Kukishin ryu, Tenshin Hyohi ryu, etc. Do I need to continue?
tessa2003 4 years ago
Yes as far as Jeet Kune Do goes, I looked at studied on the subjet many years before you were born, and to be honest have never been impressed, not saying its bad, not just my cup of tea though. Always been a big Bruce Lee fan, but feel those types of arts are not that great.
tessa2003 4 years ago
Well, my primary reasoning for picking up jeet kune do was for learning more effective hand-to-hand combat in the absence of a weapon, although I think that it's pretty much been extendable to any martial art I've tried. It's terribly fun if you just want to have freestyle sparring sessions.
Also, sparring is a very traditional concept. After all, that was how dojos compared techniques with one another.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
"Sparring" is not a traditional concept at all in Japanese Bujutsu and is more akin to modern korean oint sytems(been there done that) In the Edo period i Japan there were alot of challenge matches(all out), but they were all out. There was no bouncing around, round house kicks and spinning back kicks, points etc.
tessa2003 4 years ago
In Japanese bujutsu, there are no rules, it was life and death. Sparring, UFC type matches, etc are sports and not Bujutsu because of the rules involved.
tessa2003 4 years ago
When two people even meet at a predetermined place and time and decide on restrictions to there encounter it is sport True traditional arts are there to protect you from they guy that is trying to rob you, maim,and kill you or your loved ones.
tessa2003 4 years ago
True combat has no rules, no weight classes and no referee to save you. True, older, traditional arts from Japan are not like this. Randori and resistance training is useful, but its a different concept than modern "sparring"
tessa2003 4 years ago
Ah...I see what you're getting at. Then you're absolutely right, yes.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
1. I actually did not have the pleasure of learning abroad, but I did learn from a bojutsu grandmaster in Los Angeles.>>
Okay, so who is the Grandmaster and what style of bojutsu is it?
tessa2003 4 years ago
In respects to sparring, that is attributed to modern sportive arts, that are not Japanese bujutsu. We do randori. Which includes strikes and grappling.
tessa2003 4 years ago
What I have a problem is a unexperienced person such as yourself making comments on arts and systems that you have no idea, how they work.
tessa2003 4 years ago
Your basing you comments off of limited experience in different systems that really have no parrallel. Eveything your saying, such as the "neutral" stance, etc points to a lack of knowledge in traditional arts. It also points to the fact that your teachers are making up things as they go.
tessa2003 4 years ago
Mm...not really. Just because I don't use traditional terms (I'd like you to name some for me btw) doesn't mean I don't understand how they work. In fact, I probably have a better fundamental understanding of what the meanings of the teachings of bojutsu are than you do because you seem to be stuck on terms and formalities rather than the spirit of the art. Quite a shame, considering how much younger I am supposedly than you are.
DRaGZ141 4 years ago
The first term I would use would be the name of the school these kata are demonstrated from which are Kukishin Ryu Bojutsu. As I already explained to you they were used in combat hundreds of years ago, the only techniques that survived to be recorded in the densho and makimono were ones that worked, the others didn't make it.
tessa2003 4 years ago
You have to understand the principles that the kata are teaching before you get the spirit of the art. The only way to do that is to practice the kata properly and not try to modify it because it "didn't work" for you. If you don't know how to get it to work, the problem is your teacher or your training, not the kata. Eventually, you can practice using the principles in randori or sparring training. There is a purpose for every kamae or "stance". The kata show us these.
dbonanno 4 years ago
Dragz, just because you learn the terms and names of the teachings as well as the formalities, thats a good thing, not a bad thing, many of the secret meanings of the technqiues were even actually hidden in the names, that only the initiated could understand
tessa2003 4 years ago
Thats Shihan James Wright.
Gaybo21 5 years ago
looks like the bo beats the jo
coolchiller5 5 years ago
A weapon cannot beat another weapon.
nutunes 5 years ago 2
of course it can but it requires specific situations. but thats a bokken not a jo.
scottbaioisdead 5 years ago
Very impressive bojutsu!
EastWestNinja 5 years ago
Very good video and the techniques, the best! congratulations. Good work!.
jriesco 5 years ago