The Great Reformation [The Reformation Day Show] (Apologetics.com)

[devinkilhan]

Happy reformation day!!

[Lukyo1984]

Happy reformation Day 2010!

[hardcorelegendns]

Great video. Long live Presbyterianism and the UK. Get the false prophet pope off our shores in september. Martin Luther # 1

[MatthewInAnalog]

This show radically tied together

[billyysands]

the english didnt persecute cathlics

who puts this out cromwell and ian paisely

[billyysands]

Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven....The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why?

[billyysands]

He also held to Catholic doctrines such as that of free will, which some Protestant Reformers rejected in favor of the doctrine of predestination. His middle road disappointed and even angered many Protestants, such as Martin Luther, as well as conservative Catholics. He died in Basel in 1536 and was buried in the formerly Catholic cathedral there, recently converted to a Reformed church

[billyysands]

Erasmus lived through the Reformation period and he consistently criticized some contemporary popular Christian beliefs. In relation to clerical abuses in the Church, Erasmus remained committed to reforming the Church from within

[billyysands]

Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus (sometimes known as Desiderius Erasmus of Rotterdam) (October 27, 1466/1469, Rotterdam  July 12, 1536, Basel) was a Dutch Renaissance humanist and a Catholic Christian theologian. His scholarly name Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus comprises the following three elements: the Latin noun desiderium ("longing" or "desire"; the name being a genuine Late Latin name); the Greek adjective ἐράσμιος (erásmios) meaning "desired", and, in the form Erasmus,

[billyysands]

great you know i was afraid when i heard that music oh gawd this wont be academic this is some papist diatribe against the reformation, well its MUCH worse its some illiterate bible thumping fanatical evangelical protestant, the reformation did NOT save civilization

how did it save civilization?

the french revolution and the enlightenement created the secular society we enjoy today..al the reformation did was start another religious Massacre

[TheHonestTheist]

/watch?v=fFH0khjgA0U

[yendelwendal]

Scripture does not teach infant baptism, it's futile to talk about it.

[exrcatholic7]

Gal 2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[Gusdaberean]

why do we baptize children? Because Gods covenant, has not been changed. There has been no instruction which says that God has altered His operation, with regard to infants participating in the covenant sign as John Murray pointed out. The promise says, I will be your God and you will be my people, given to Abraham and his family stands; and of Peter, for you and for your children. Children would be subjects of baptism just as they were of circumcision in the Old Testament.

[exrcatholic7]

Rom 9:13 Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.

Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.

Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy.

[yendelwendal]

ShadowGhost78

Please put monergism in your search engine, that is if you really love truth.

[ShadowGhost78]

Someone please tell me: which church of the "reformation" is the most accurate in doctrine?

[yendelwendal]

Please put "monergism" in your search engine, that is if you love truth.

[Gusdaberean]

Babies will not be saved without faith in Jesus. Parents who think they are placing their children under God's grace by "dedicating" them are deceiving themselves. The only dedication that the New Testament knows of is the "dedication" that take place via baptism. That is why infants should be baptized. Like everyone else, they desperately need forgiveness. If infants die before they believe in Jesus, they will be eternally condemned.

[yendelwendal]

Gusdaberean, Amen to that.

The word of God tells us, he that BELIEVES and is baptized will be saved.

Does a baby understand the gospel? NO.

According to Romans 8&9 God has chosen His children before He created the earth. Man wil not manipulate or twart with YHWH's predetermined plan.

[Gusdaberean]

we believe (because of what the Bible says about baptism) that when an infant is baptized God creates faith in the heart of that infant. This faith cannot yet, of course, be expressed or articulated, yet it is real and present all the same (1 Pet 3:21; Acts 2:38-39; Titus 3:5-6; Matt. 18:6; Luke 1:15; 2 Tim.3:15; Gal. 3:26-27; Rom. 6:4; 1 Cor. 12:13)

Faith is more than intellectual assent to a set of propositions. If that was the criterion than the demons believe also and thereby have faith.

[Gusdaberean]

Paul takes it up in Romans 5:18: "So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

Furthermore, Jesus said, "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved; he who believes not shall be damned" (Mark 16:16). According to Jesus, ANYONE who does not believe in Him will be damned. Jesus makes no exception for infants.

[steve2746]

How could GOD spare David's child? Samuel 12:23 He said, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, Who knows whether the LORD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

23 But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me."

[Gusdaberean]

Scripture says nothing about an "Age of Accountability" that begins at the age of reason. Its message is that accountability begins at conception. David confesses in Psalm 51:5, "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me." The Bible teaches original sin, that the corruption and guilt of Adam's sin is passed on to every human being at conception. Jesus affirms this teaching when He says, "Flesh gives birth to flesh" (John 3:5).

[Smaskens133]

Deuteronomy 1:39 your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it." there God promised the promised land to those who do not know the difference between good and evil.

Isaiah 7:16 For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken.

[Smaskens133]

So yes, the Bible says that there is an age when you start knowing the difference between good and evil, and before you get to that age, you are an inheritor automatically of the promised land.

Or maybe the trillions of infants who have died at birth age are now in hell, is that what you're saying?

So yes, the bible talks about an age of accountability, so your claim has now been thoroughly debunked. All infants who die will get to heaven, end of story.

[fishboi87]

even if god sends them to hell he would still be just. mans is concieved in sin and shaped in sin (palms 51). But God is good, and always remember he isnt obligated to save anyone.

[Smaskens133]

exactly :)

[johnorigen]

I find it interesting that limited atonement says Jesus did not die for everyone yet people progating that belied guarantee the children were died for in the "limited atonement" process. If the Bible does teach limited atonement and it is God's choice who goes to heaven it seems limited atonement progaters can at best say they don't know which baby Jesus died for.

[yendelwendal]

Age of accountability is a myth, YHWH is under no obligation to save anybody, if He saves anybody that's a schock, nobody deserves the love of God, nobody. Babies die because of the curse of sin upon them. The only way a baby could make it to heaven would be by the intervention of God's grace.

[Gusdaberean]

I agree that the only way a baby can make it to heaven just as adults is by God's grace alone. The problem is that you just dont think that the sacrament of baptism is an administration of that grace and the gospel. Nor do you believe in spite of the reformers and the heralders of the doctrines of grace (doctrines you believe in) that baptism should be given to infants. John Knox wrote, God has promised that He will be a God to us and the God of our children unto the thousandth generation"

[Smaskens133]

I didn't say babies deserve to go to heaven. No one deserves to have such a great God. I think that God doesn't account babies for their corrupt nature, and by his grace makes them pure in Christ Jesus. Just like I don't say that we deserve to go to heaven, even though we do, because we are saved by grace through faith; likewise humans of less age are saved by grace through Christ's imputed righteousness.

[billyysands]

Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven....The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why?

[Gusdaberean]

That is the early church believed that infants baptized were recepients of the Spirit of God just as infants circumcised in the OT were considered members of the church of God which was israel at the time. And infants just like adults need faith and to be born again so they can enter heaven because they have the stain of sin. Otherwise you have to just count on God letting them enter into heaven though they have sin in them. Sin is a spiritual but also physical disease (Rom. 8:20,21).

[Smaskens133]

The early church also had popes that determined what was right and wrong, so I don't think that serves as an argument. There have always been people rebelling against the catholic church. Just because pope said that infant baptism is right, it doesn't necessarely make it right.

[Gusdaberean]

Popes didnt come until the 5th century. I said "The early church" Secondly, it wasnt a pope but the apostolic fathers and post apostolic fathers that believed in and taught infant baptism.

[Smaskens133]

And in 195 AD, Pope Victor I, in what is seen as an exercise of Roman authority over other churches, excommunicated the Quartodecimans for observing Easter on the 14th of Nisan

that's from wikipedia. according to that information atleast the popes came much sooner :), but I have to admit, I'm no expert on the subject of popes...

[Gusdaberean]

Im sure that was a Catholic influenced statement. But there is no discussion or acknowledgement of popery in the apostolic and post apostolic writings. The first recognizable pope was like Gregory who was a 4th-5th century icon. This debate is also what fractured the East versus the west. Orthodox from the Catholic.

[yendelwendal]

Faith is a gift given to the elect only, the elect were chosen before the earth was created as written in Romans 8&9.

Faith enables a depraved person to believe at God's appointed time, this gift of faith is not given to everybody as Rome teaches. Regeneration preceeds faith, Regeneration preceeds faith, Regeneration preceeds faith. Rom 3:12 They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable; There is none that doeth good, no, not, so much as one:

[Gusdaberean]

Noone ever contested that regneration precedes faith. You assume that paedo-baptists are inferring such. Paedo-baptists believe that regeneration occurs through the waters of baptism for "infants." For adults we truly dont know when it occurs save by their confession of faith. You presume that because a baby cannot verbalize its faith that it is unregenerate. We say that you cannot assume such. Just because a person cannot communicate their faith audibly does not mean they do not have faith.

[yendelwendal]

We can use our logic till the cows come home, in the end scriptures prevail. The word tells me "he that BELIEVES and is baptized will be saved"

[yendelwendal]

YHWH does not tell us who the elect are, this is why the great commission is to all. Only the elect recieve grace unto salvation. No man on earth has the right to pronounce who the elect are, this has already been done before the earth was created. It's not about DNA, it's about YHWH doing His pleasure. YHWH is under no obligation to save anyone, nobody deserves the love of God, nobody.

Bottom line is, YHWH does what He wants and He is not to be questioned.

[Gusdaberean]

Augustine spoke of original sin that is we are stained from birth. The primary reason most reject infant baptism is because they reject original sin on some level. But the bible proves babies can have faith therefore they can be regenerate. Out of all people pentecostals such as yourself should believe in the miraculous power of God. Faith is a divine act not human. It is given by God to the intellectual as well as to the fool. We can only have faith by God's divine power or being born again.

[Smaskens133]

no, the primary reason most reject infant baptism is not that they reject original sin, did you just make that up or have you ever read what anything what baptists like spurgeon have written? And yes, I do believe in the miraculous power of God, what's your point? And yes, faith is God's gift, I agree. But not all infants believe so there's no point in forcing them to be baptized, I actually don't think any infants believe in Jesus that's just a fact..

[Gusdaberean]

Infants can enter the kingdom because they can be born again i.e. spirit baptized.

According to Scripture, baptism "washes away sin" (Acts 22:16), "saves" (1 Peter 3:21; Mark 16:16),causes one to be "clothed with Christ" (Galatians 3:27), and to be a member of the body of Christ : "FOR BY ONE Spirit, WE WERE ALL BAPTIZED into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and WE WERE ALL MADE TO DRINK OF ONE SPIRIT" (1 Cor. 12:13).

[Gusdaberean]

"Let the little children (Grk:Paedion- INFANTS)come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. Assuredly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it" (Luke 18:15-17).

[Gusdaberean]

Even tho I am a Lutheran oddly I hold to the doctrines of grace. So I am paedo-baptistic, calvinistic soteriologically, and Lutheran sacramentally. Con-substantiationalist with no objections to transubstantiation and definitely stronger on the eucharist than calvin who viewed it as us being enjoined upward and Lutherans believe it is God's blessing downward as manna from hvn upon the church to nourish us.

[warmouth]

Praise the Lord! Gus, your half way there, lol.

[Gusdaberean]

Ive progressed through the years as a xtian. Was raised a jehovah's witness and when I was born again i was baptized in the SBC (Southern baptist church). Went to a non-denom for awhile but got entrenched in the historical church ala White and Geisler's book battle Potters freedom and chosen but free. Had a reawakening reading white's book.

[Smaskens133]

haha the song in the beginning is often sang at the lutheran church that I attend on Sundays.

[kamaujackson811]

LCMS?

[Smaskens133]

Didn't even know what LCMS meant, had to google it up. It's a church here in Finland so I don't think it has much to do with the Lutheran Church of Missouri Synod.

It has some pros and cons, pros being the fact that they are about the only church in Finland along with a few others that resist women pastors, as does the bible in 1Timothy 2:10-15.

[Smaskens133]

The cons are their doctrine of regeneration, which I often LOL at. They believe a child gets the Holy Spirit and is born again by getting water poured on his neck, which is absurd to the highest degree. For the bible says in Acts 8:16 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Officially I'm a pentecostal and do attend there more often than in lutheran churches

[Gusdaberean]

I am a Lutheran (LCMS) and the reason why we believe that baptism is regenerative is the same reasons why the bible refers to in parallel that baptism is of both Spirit and water. The key here is that he who is baptized is baptized not only of water but of spirit i.e. 1 John 5:8. Of course the blood is witnessed via thru communion.

[Smaskens133]

1 John 5:7-8 "For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement." it doesn't say anything about getting the holy spirit when you are baptized, your explanation to this passage is absurd to the highest degree.

[Gusdaberean]

there are 3 witnesses to our faith, WATER, Spirit, and the BLOOD. Water is water baptism, Spirit is SPIRIT baptism i.e. being born again, thirdly Blood is the sacrament of communion! Acts 2:38 - Peter said unto them, Repent, and BE BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and YOU SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Ghost

Eph. 4:5 One Lord, one faith, ONE baptism,

[Smaskens133]

water being water baptism and blood being sacrament of communion, is your personal interpretation of that verse. Yes, Peter said REPENT and be baptized, and you shall receive the gift.

what do you think is more important? repentance(which is change of mind in greek), or pouring water on someones neck?

Bible also says: whoever confesses with mouth Jesus as lord and believes in heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.

[Smaskens133]

You'd say I'm insane if I told you only the confession would result in me being saved, you don't really need faith. The point is not about the confession, but about the belief in heart, which leads to confession which symbolises your faith. Likewise the point isn't about baptism, but the repentance(change of mind), which leads to baptism which symbolises your repentance(burying your old self and rising up in a new life with Christ). you've now made a change in mind and decide to live with Christ

[Gusdaberean]

You yuorself has said it and I have already affirmed that infants can have faith. God has always used physical things to present his supernatural miracles. He uses communion to present the living Christ's own body and blood to nourish us. He uses water to baptize us as a vehicle for his Spirit as infants. Im not saying that we cannot receive the Spirit of God apart from water baptism certainly as adults we can. But the antiquated practice of infant baptism is not void of his Spirit.

[Smaskens133]

mmm no, infant cannot have have faith, that's just absurd. It's as stupid as saying that a braindead could have faith, even though he's not conscious of it nor understands what he believes in.

[Gusdaberean]

Your insistence that infants are contrasted to braindead only gives the pro-choice argument credance. Infants are intelligable creatures but once again you fail to realize that faith is a supernatural divine act. A fool can believe in Christ and have faith just as a doctor of ministry can lack it. Our intelligence is not what warrants faith for it is a spiritual act performed by God despite ourselves.

[Smaskens133]

No, actually their brains haven't developed enough to be able to even think about things like God, how much less will they believe in something they can't even think about?

You sound like Billy Graham, who says that you can believe even though you're not conscious of it. Well, maybe my whole family is saved, they just do not realize it, nor know that they believe. Likewise, perhaps your children believe, even though they don't even know what they're believing in =).

(YOUR LOGIC, NOT MINE)

[Gusdaberean]

But there brains are developed enought to trust and even to know when they are in danger. Once again i reiterate faith is a divine action in the human believer not a human action based upon human culpability. And no im no inclusivist like Graham. The difference between paedo- and credo baptists is we dont treat faith as a wham bam thank u maam event. We believe faith exists and grows within the life of a believer as it is nurtured i.e. discipled. So infants can be a believer and grows in faith.

[steve2746]

Gusdaberean you wrote. I have already affirmed that infants can have faith. What utter nonsense. Just when I thought I had heard it all.

[Gusdaberean]

Oddly i think in your other commentt you answered the question. repentance or faith exist within the heart and mind of an individual and scripture makes it clear that paidion or infants can obtain both as infants. Since faith is a divine miracle given by God not based upon our ability then it is plausible for infants to obtain these. Funny how pentecostals cant hack when others belie the miracle of tongues but yet scoff at God's miraculous work in water and bread.

[Gusdaberean]

Dont laugh to hard many pentecostal churches believe in baptismal regeneration. The difference is of course that Lutherans do not insist that the spirit can regenerate apart from water. Nevertheless we believe that God often uses physical things to present the spiritual.

[Smaskens133]

Well the Oneness Pentecostals do believe in it, but the other Pentecostal churches(the majority) do not believe in it. And even though these too share the same views on spiritual gifts etc, it doesn't make them nearly related at all, it would be like comparing a hyper-calvinist with a calvinist(they probably wouldn't even agree on fellowshipping in the same congregation). :)

[Gusdaberean]

I know that mainstrem pentecostalism like AOG do not. But my point is that some do so dont laugh to hard. Of course I make the distinction on baptismal regeneration from these because as i stated Lutherans do teach that regeneration can happen external of water baptism.

[QuakeCityRockers]

Yeah I may be wrong but I'll blame it on my teachers. I got the idea from Westminster Escondido peeps as whell as Michael Horton and the WHI show. That Luther tought about two sphirers The Kingdom of God and The Kingdom here on earth. Now Theonomist will contest this point and say that there is only one kingdom all belonging to God hence the rational for Theonomizing and politicalizing the gospel message and Kingdom work. I believe there is a sepperation between upper and lower register.

[kamaujackson811]

Do I hear deaton29 !?!?

[deaton29]

Kamaujackson811, I tried to get them to broadcast from my garage, but they made me go there instead. :-)

[kamaujackson811]

Haha....what were they thinking?

If they only knew what type of equipment you had in your garage!

[apathyHurtsMore]

Thanks for posting the program, Lane. I liked your explanation of total depravity, and you guys touched on a lot of topics with good overviews.

[QuakeCityRockers]

Quick question for a reformation show do you guys believe in the reformation teaching of two kingdoms? Or do you have a Theonomic leaning?

[Coyne1988]

2 kingdoms?

[Coyne1988]

Now we know what your voice sounds like.