Pointer Cantona in action

[tribalpointers]

I have a pointer who is about 3/4 swedish blood with 1/4 american blood. If I had to break it down that is about as easy I can do it...lol. The american blood is out of CH Northern Dancer back to Ch Guard Rail. My dog's sire is out of 2 Swedish imports. He is hard charging, fast and ranges far, but when it comes to the "point" he's low in the front with a tail at 9 oclock. I get scored low for pointing because of his "style" but damn it...he's intense, shakes from head to tail and is solid!

[can3621]

I cant speak for all in the US and I am not highly knowledgable about all things pointer. Style is highly sought after in the US...and this is the reason for high tails and "whoa" its not really training the point but trianing that no movement should happen after the point. Most pointers were/are used for quail a good holding bird and there should be no need for movement after the bird is precisely located. Also in the west of US birds can be very skittish and not hold for dogs.

[can3621]

These skittish birds is one of the reasons whoa is important here. Creeping after the point can cause birds to flush prematurely. If we want a dog to relocate a tap on the head is all thats required. Some wild bird dogs learn relocating by themselves. Some of the things we do with our dogs comes from our field trials and these are not always exactly like hunting (good or bad) and there is always the fact that people here like to tinker with thier dogs, sometimes more than needed.

[can3621]

I can also see where you might think whoa is training to point but it is not. It is training them to stand on command...point is instictive...whoa allows us to stop the dog in its tracks anytime we want, especially when its time for hunters to flush bird.

[ppaauull71]

yea Im getting it now. u use whoa we use down or sit similar. thanks! Im a bit afraid that some US imported blood brings dog that dont want to flush, and the flush is so important her. It probably isnt a problem but I still am concerned. but they certainly bring hard runners and that wins trials. I agree creeping after point is not ok her but adjusting is, there is a difference. The biggest difference is the result, mistake flush or not ;)

[can3621]

I really dont know if flushing would be a problem...might be. But would seem to me that a good cooperative dog might be able to be taught the flush....thats a very good question that i dont really have a good answer on. Maybe someone with more in depth experience could help out with that question. maybe breeding the hard charging U.S. dog to a good european dog might be the answer. There are hard chargers here that are very independant (hardheaded) and others that are very cooperative.

[ppaauull71]

I´d say this is a perfect Scandinavian dog work. He tries to incise the points precision by moving a bit close then nailing it "only smaller adjustments are ok". On command exploding avance, flushing the bird and a absolute stop at wing. Great job great dog!

[PLRavndal]

I bought this pointer in sweden, he is a quarter US blood, and have now a young half us pointer. I believe we can get good endurance from american blood. The american blood is also very presise and tough flushers. Why the american takes the flush away, I will never really understand. I respect different types of trials, some like this, some like that.. But for hunting in mountains, a flush is important, in order to get a good shot. How the tail is on point, do NOT mean shit in Norway.

[ppaauull71]

Interesting about what you say about the high quality precise point, I who'd guest that the fact that they "train the point?" could of covered up some bad pointing instincts', but obviously not. do you train point?

[PLRavndal]

They train everything, from what I have read in US books on trial. Experince from those US pointers that have been imported, breed good health, fiery bird work, often flush the birds them self. They go fast, big and as long as anyone. The US do not want flush, so the amount of collars on their neck, you can probably guess, how they make them calm. I do not train point, all should come natural in game bird, and it always does!

[ppaauull71]

There is a risk using etch others material for breeding when we don't use them the same way. But if we choose carefully and not necessarily blindly the winner, there shore is some material that even fore us is useful, espial "as already said" endurance and strength.

[winniegundog]

I recieved a comment from overseas that my dog should not have a docked tail. Starting to believe that no matter what american breeders do to advance the sport it will be questioned. my dogs stubby tail points to the sky. I'm sure that somehow doesn't count. Although my freezer is full of wild game. Old lonely tyrants have dogs with the best form. Sadly. Any sport that requires impartial judging is fallable. Such as Ice skating and gymnastics.

[joscarch]

I have american pointer and lab bat I have a friends they like Europe pointer dog and I see (in spanish) Campeonato de Europa de gran busqueda. Nice speedy dogs.

Some time I was in the Gary foro and I traied ( is correct?) to said like the europe are ( diferent american) bat I cann not to said good. I was sorry.

Your dogs are nice and good training europe mode. Congratulations.

Oscar

Mexico

[jmorski]

Really, who cares about the form, that dog did the job.

[shvezar]

Poor Americans! :) They took our Europian dogs, turned them to something terribly new and now they tell us we're wrong!

Ravndal, nice dog thou, but not ready for trials yet - dog moves to the bird after the fisrt pointing without your command, the point must be dead point untill you say Go!

[PLRavndal]

Hi Shvezar

In Norwegian trials, the dog can advance on the bird, if the bird start to run, and then set it again. I think that US pointers have something to offer, not in exterior, but in endurance, will to always go to work, no matter how hard the conditions are. We do trials in the winter mountains with -20 celsius, and snow meter deep, or like glass. Us mixed pointers never give up. There is a lot of strange (to me), differenses of how different countries wants their bird dog to work.

[PLRavndal]

The danish wants a dancing tail, when running, americans wants a straight tail, and dogs that are does not do these things are considered bad, so there really is not a standard that applies in all countries. But it is fun to learn how other countries

wants their pointers. PS. just got a half american pup of Millers line, ugly as hell, but still great!

[pacificpointer]

Paul, thanks for sharing. Pawnandsell is a guy named Gary and he is part of a trial orgaization here in the USA. Stick to your guns and blaze your own trail. Your dog looks like it gets out of the gate good. Good luck.

[ob14X4]

American preferences are just different from rest of the world. Take an english setter, for example. USA breed are long legged, comparatively short haired, and required to point high on its feet, high tail. In europe, as in the rest of the world, an english setter has shorter legs, longer hair, has a bone structure and motion more canine like. These dogs ponit fully elongated, crouched, level tail, and this is an accepted and preferred style. Just different ;-)

[ob14X4]

High tail is a desirable trait for american hunters and trialers only. Everywhere else, a level tail is most appreciated

[PLRavndal]

He he, What is important to you americans?? That the dog can find bird?, or that the dog carries his tail this or that way??. At our trials the best dog wins wheter its black, blue or has a tail dragging the ground. By the way, Cantona is 1/4 US blood, and have already several 1.prizes at trial.

[pawnansell]

If I was judging this dog in a field trial he would never place with that low of a tail never. A field trial is a breeders stake. Get a new dog if you want to be competive.

[tribalpointers]

Ugh...it's all about the tail...pity! I wonder if you jack that tail up so much you'll start to see problems happen with the all around structure of the dog...ie shoulder problems, hip problems. Is that why so many american field pointers end up in shelters because they go lame before they even hit their prime?