you are an idiot if you don't think that religions were created to control people. It's fine if you need this confort blanket, just don't throw it at me, and especially your kids! Let your kids make there mind up about what they want to believe. i see it everyday and i get it, you are just like the kid that's afraid of the closet monster and you never learn to grow some balls and go look and see that there was no gay monster hiding in your closet, it was just YOU hiding from the truth!
The Government isn't here to save your soul. It's here to save your butt. Although morality is very important, Religion should only factor in, at the poles and not in the campaign. Government and Religion must only co-exist and never merge. I am not atheist and take my faith extremely serious.
That is not the original Saddleback Tent...get your facts straight. The tent is Overdrive, a venue on the Saddleback campus. That was not a fund raiser, but the Overdrive venue...just like that every Sunday.
Saddleback has done more for the poor than probably any other church I know of. The civil forum was not Rick's idea, but that of the candidates. Take your gripe to the candidates...
It is also located in the Orange County, if you know about the wealth of that area, you'd know why that church is doing well. The line "Not only power corrupt, but money corrupt," didn't really do it for me, and although it is true in many cases, there are exceptions.
If you're going to make a video about the debate, I suggest you watch the debate & do your bloody homework. Mccain's got Hagee, Obama's got Wright. And how did this video of Saddleback bashing got to John Hagee bashing?
Actually I think "PEACE" plan from Saddleback church, and their work in aids prevention in Africa is pretty solid and clean...unlike other organisations.
...and mate, calm down. No need to get angry to the point of caps locking. And here I thought we can discuss/debate the matter with some civility.
For that, you would have to ask the church, or research for yourself. [considering you're the citizen "journalist"]
But from what I've read of it, they don't seem to include the bombing of countries nor a century long war. Although I suspect your government is already doing a good job at that on its own. Again, I more than welcome INTELLIGENT discussion on this matter. These criticism are here to help you, I'm not one of those people who criticise without reason.
3 - my guess is that most of Saddleback's congregation supported the war in Iraq and voted for George Bush (probably twice - 2000 and 2004), because, as you correctly point out, Orange County is wealthy/rich and Republican.
2 - I've done it on several occasion for a University report over here, and they were pretty nice about it. You'd be surprise at how nice some Christians are.
3 - I doubt everyone who adhere to the Christian religion all vote the same way, I don't think that can happen to a church of 23,000. Yes, OC is wealthy, and about 50% are Reps. Now, are these 50 saddleback members? Quite Possibly. Are there Democrats who goes to saddleback? Quite Possibly =)
1) I did, mostly for class projects, but it doesn't fit within the data limit of youtube. =)
2) That's interesting + horrible, and it's the exact opposite of what Christianity is supposed to be [I think]. =( I have many Christian friends over here from NZ, Australia, but some are American and are very nice ^^
3) Thank you for the correct information, I used the archive from OCvote, and my result of 55 percent was from the 2000 gen, but I went back and saw that 2004 was 60% Wow ^^
BTW you are wrong about Orange County - it is overwhelming Republican:
It voted Republican in the last 5 presidential elections
1988 Bush41
1992 Bush41
1996 Dole
2000 Bush 43
2004 Bush 43
Based on this record of Orange County voters, Saddleback Church is probably, at the least, 60% Republican; more likely - because it is an evangelical church - 75% to 80% Republican and conservative.
Yeah I am not one to do this but if you are going to start bashing someone on something try watching the saddleback debate or hell even doing more reserrch on some one then saying you dont have enough time to find all the details. Also quit useing words like "apperentlly" or "from what I hear" it really means you dont have a clue what your talking about. And that is all.
Wake up Ralfff! This tightly woven fabric in our nation has been going on since our founding 200 yrs ago. Your an uneducated bigot to say this reminds you of the radical muslim nations. I don't recall Christians flying planes into buildings of hacking off your kids head! I don't see Christians blowing up school children in Russia or becoming suicide bombers killing jews. I see them coming to the aid of those who are victoms of terror and doing good in the face of evil, dispite asses like you!!
Biased bathroom wall advise. The problem with people like you is the narrow mindedness of your secularist agenda that has removed all conscience of accountability. Whether you want to believe it or not, the day is comming that God will judge you and what will you have to say? Based upon your ignorance of the importance of the saddle back debate that showed to the American public where the Presidential Elects stand on issues that really matter, I think your opinion is, "Null and Void."
Umm wow! yes there was an "apparent debate" at a church called saddleback in CA!1)Learn to read and 2)try and research who and what u are talking about before you make a video trying to prove something. This is a perfect example of y Americans are so ignorant when it comes to candid knowledge about issues regarding things outside their measley little commodity consuming lives. I dnt think that a church that has more public outreach and volunteer programs than some small states should b bashed.
John McCain, in his own words, in his book [Worth the Fighting For]. "I didn't decide to run for president to start a national crusade for the political reforms I believed in or to run a campaign as if it were some grand act of patriotism. In truth, I wanted to be president because it had become my ambition to become president.I was 62 years old when I made the decision, and I thought it was my one shot at the prize" At 72 for mccain its still just a game. Americans wont win in mccains game.
Asked the question from a reporter to mccain of how many houses he and his recent wife owns, Mccain replied "4 condos ah im not sure my staff will get back with you with the answer". Mccain could'nt remember that its 10, For someone who only considers a person to be rich if he has 5 million or more, mccain is not only out of touch with the common/average worker,but truly inept and out of touch with cognitive thought less his handlers help him. America choose intelligences over status quo...
CNN doesn't like it that Warren did a better job moderating a debate then they did...plain and simple. Bottom line is the networks have done such a bad job on these debates, and this exposed it.
Unfortunately, and sadly, you are making judgement calls when you admittedly don't take the time to study the details, (or the facts). Rick Warren himself said He believes in "Separation of Church and State, but... not in the separation of politics from religion." Separation of Church and State IS NOT in the Constitution as the secular humanists have so well duped the masses to believe. Rick Warren did not endorse either candidate in this forum either, nor has he from his pulpit.
I totally agree with you Ralph. I feel that all religions run the same game. And some religions - politico religous movement ( I call it ) - has allot to do with our global problems. Thanks of posting the video!
Finally Obama has to answer tough questions and look how it went...... "above my pay grade" LOL Forums like this will hope independent voters make the right decision. Thanks Rick Warren for asking meaningful and important questions that America needs answered before November.
The hatred in this video amazes me. I am a Pastor of 15 years, have helped thousands of people in rebuilding efforts after Katrina, through tornado devastation and disaster in Tennessee, helped probably thousands of people through benevolent outreach efforts through our awful "money making" churches. I make 30k a year for a family of six, live in a house that isn't my own, and have two cars with 100k miles on them.
I gave up a life in Business Admin to pursue a life of servanthood and ministry. Hopefully bettering my world and my fellow man. I believe in a loving God who created us and a Savior who came to save man from his sinful ways. Because of that I am hated, a lead a "cult," and am basically an idiot. ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. AMERICA IS IN TROUBLE. Where's the tolerance liberals? Where's the open-mindedness. I am not condoning some of the preachers you mentioned, but not all of us are so bad. GOD HELP US.
What do you think of Hagee and Parsley and the bigot/adulterer Jimmy Swaggert and the homophobic Swiggert(sp) who was caught with the male prostitute?
too bad you're not making the Big Money like Pastor Rick...
I suggest writing a book (along the lines of Pastor Rick) and opening up a church in a very rich/Republican community - a la Orange County, California...)
"I started looking into this Saddleback Church and Rick arren just to see how phoney he is..." His agenda preceded the "research" so how objective is this guy?
I watched it and while I found Warren to be an OK guy, I still don't believe in mixing church and state. In fact during this conversation Obama said just that
Religion and politics will always mix. Why? Because your religious persuasions affect your world view and how you see certain issues. Even if you are agnostic or athiest, THAT affects how you see certain issues. So in a way everyone lets their religious ideas affect their politics.
Thomas Jefferson's comments about church and state are totally taken out of context all the time. You can be religious or athiest and also be political. Why do you think they painted Moses in the capital?
Ralph,it's a good idea to watch it before trashing it. I actually found Warren to be a nice man. He was generous non combative to Barack and very fair when questioning him. The problem was the subject matter was 85% wedge Issues in Warrens church. by default a McCain croud But the gave Barack a very warm welcome and never showed any sign of disrespect or other wise. I nominate Warren to be the moderater the political debates
It turns out that Rick Warren and his church were charging $500 to $1000 per ticket to the " open " forum. Many people Orange County had tried for a week to get tickets to the debate and were told that tickets were not available.
(all this means, the audience was self selected, rich people who were in good with Pastor Warren.)
It also turns out that McCain may have (or probably) heard the debate questions in advance since he went AFTER Obama and WAS NOT in isolation.
Then why won't the Obama campaign say he was cheating? Its because they know it was impossible. Staff and secret service were with McCain the whole time.
Why are people like you trying to go around and start this little WHISPERING CAMPAIGN to spread rumors?
I now realize why Obama doesn't want to take up McCain's challenge and debate in town halls across the country.
It's because Obama is nothing without his speeches and talking points, which by the way are written by his staff members.
Judaism, Islam, and Christianity all spring from the same poison well; all three make life on Earth a living hell for all reasonably thinking human beings!
Wake up! The world isn't flat and isn't held up by pillars, and those holy books of yours are all murderous fairytales made up by man to rule the masses!
It is sad Obama is a Christian, but I won't hold that against him. At least he isn't a warmongering, senile old misogynist like McSame! So Obama has my vote! (smile)
Our forefathers didn't trust the church and weren't as religious as many people like to paint them.
Thomas Jefferson didn't believe that Jesus could perform miracles, so he removed all of the passages in his Bible in which Jesus performed magic tricks.
Benjamin Franklin doesn't seem to have been religious all.
Thomas Paine was agnostic.
The Christian Movement in US politics really started in the 1950s.
The Pilgrims played no role in drafting the US Constitution or forming the original colonial government. I'm surprised that you think they did.
The framers of the US Constitution worked to avoid a theocratic government. Since the 1950s, there has been a stronger movement to convert the US Government into a theocracy.
You're saying that because there are Christians in our government, we have theocracy.
That's like saying there are fish in water, therefore, water is made of fish.
I don't want a theocracy. I don't believe in it. Jesus never forced anyone to follow Him.
Here is what bothers me.
It seems like you want me to leave my faith at home when I go to Washington. Thats wrong.
If you think that Christianity had no role in framing our constitution, then why is the first amendment about freedom of religion?
What religion do you think they were refering to? Hinduism or Islam? THEY WERE CHRISTIANS. Thats what they wanted to protect. Thats why we have that amendment.
You don't have to tell lies about my position to have a conversation with me.
You're arguing that our government is based on theocratic principles based on Christian and Jewish laws.
When in fact it is based up previous contracts, laws and constitutional contracts that freed our ancestors to varying degrees from the oppression of the church and monarchies.
But they weren't your kind of Christian. they didn't worship like you did. Thomas Jefferson didn't even believe in the divinity of Jesus.
The "separation of church and state" isn't in the constitution either.
The "separation of church and state" came from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802.
The idea was to create a "wall of separation" between church and state.
And I couldn't agree more. I don't want my government telling me how to worship and who to worship. I don't want them telling me what denomination I have to belong to.
This was the problem back in England. Which is why the pilgrims left.
Once you declare that the government is Christian, you remove rights for Judaism and other religions.
The next step after that is to pass laws defining what Christianity is. After all, that's what lawmakers do, once they give the government authority over something.
This country was founded on Judeo-Christion principles and ideas.
Part of that means that you can be any religion you want. God gave us free will. You can choose Him or reject Him. But thats your choice.
If you become a Christian only because you were forced to, does that bring you any closer to Jesus? No. It has to be from the heart under you own free will.
Thats what Christianity is all about. Thats why you can be any religion you want in the U.S.
God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are one entity. Jesus IS God and God is Jesus.
Think of it like water in all its 3 forms; liquid, solid and gas.
Read Isaiah chapter 53 in the Old Testament and you will see how Jesus, "Gods Right Arm" is prophesied to come to earth and die for the sins of the world.
A right arm is like a captain in this context. It's not meant to be interpreted as an actual arm. It's symbolic.
The three gods you refer to, come from the problem the Catholic Church had in absorbing heathen religions and with the Cathars who saw Jesus as a man to be followed and not a god to be worshiped.
These three separate entities and concepts had to be combined, lest people who had been poltheists, see Catholicism as polytheism.
Many other religions, like Buddhism see the many gods as faces or entities derived from one.
So the Catholic Church that it lies about being monotheist, borrows the same context that the many Gods share a common form, it lies to itself and pretends this is really monotheism.
Where it truly splits from other faiths is that it divides man from this relationship. Many other faiths place many as a part of this unity.
Ok, I'll bite. What's the archaeological evidence that God inspired men to write these things?
I thought the belief in God was a matter of faith. Has someone found a physical part of God, or a device for talking directly to God? Did God leave his signature on a clay tablet?
God's signature? Its written all over this universe which He caused to come into existence out of nothing. It is written in you genetic code and the LAWS of science.
Are you saying that I'll find Bible verses in our genetic code?
You said you can prove that man didn't think up any of the text in the Holy Bible, that God 'inspired it'.
Now if you're saying that man was inspired to write a religious text, we could say that God inspired Darwin to write the scientific text, 'Origin of the Species'.
I'm trying to understand what you think would constitute irrefutable proof that God touched something. Would it glow in the dark? Exhibit properties that defy measurement?
I think that your argument boils down to the fact that you believe it. And what you believe in, must be correct.
But how can I decide that what you believe has more value than my homeless friend Beau, who tells me prophecies? After I know him personally.
I don't know that the universe came into existence from nothing.
The bonding of DNA doesn't violate the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Concentrated order can come from disorder, in the service of increased disorder. Like a matchbox car doing a loop after descending a slope. The net effect is till that energy is spent, even though the car momentarily stores energy as it climbs the loop.
For the first cell to come together on its own would be an astronomical coincidence. More like impossible.
Your answer seems pretty simple. Unfortunately its not that easy. I am not an expert on this. But I have talked to one.
My microbiology professor once mentioned the law of abiogenesis in class. I asked him after class how he thinks the first living organism was formed on earth. He said that he believes it was a spore from outer space.
He's been teaching MB for 30+ years and has a PHD.
Yes, a cell coming together like that is very unlikely. Scientists don't believe that happened.
Your story about your professor is very strange. Perhaps this is why he's teaching and not doing?
You paid good money for a crappy education.
Actually, each step in a complex event is often simple. Just as each part of a watch is simple. And watches evolved technologically from simpler timepieces, much as life has.
From water dripping, to pendulums, to geared pendulums, to more gears, hands...
Watches in fact are great examples of how things evolve in technology as they evolve in nature.
The early Catholic monks used a pendulum as an advanced timepiece over water and sand clocks, and counted every swing.
Later, simple gearing was added, to make the counting easier. As they became more complicated, more gears were added, from the original templates of gears. Hand were affixed to show gear positions. Markings on the gears became dials.
I'm not going to bash the authors, no more than I'm bashing you.
I'm just arguing with you.
Christians in general, have a big issue with vanity. We're all taught that only Christ or God can teach us right from wrong, that without the Bible, people have no way of knowing that hurting other people is wrong. This is a lie.
And the entire Christian Religion has God worshiping man. He created Man and placed him in the center of his universe. That has always struck me as the height of vanity.
God wrote His laws on the hearts of every man. Romans 2:15
Its called a conscience. Morality DID come from God.
How could nature have SELECTED morality? Morality is all about sacrifice. Natural selection would cause us to become MORE selfish over time so as to increase our own chance of survival.
We have morality and an appreciation of beautiful things because we were created in Gods own image.
Evolution is based on the idea that the individual is unimportant. The genes or patterns of genes are what matters. So the sacrifice of an individual is unimportant, so long as the genes that individual contains carries on.
There are simple examples in nature that disprove your notion. Take honeybees or ants, each individual will self sacrifice without hesitation for the hive. Because if the hive is protected, their genes carry on, in others.
The question is weather they do it out of love, or necessity. I would say necessity. Thats the way God wired them to be.
You invoke MACRO-evolution like its a fact.
It has pretty much been discredited by the Cambrian explosion and lack of intermediary fossils. Not to mention that macro-evolution would HAVE TO explain abiogenesis. Which it can't do.
Hence we must move on to another theory that offers a better explanation.
Actually, evolution, like gravity and light, is described by a theory. In science, there are no facts. There is evidence and hypothesis. A well accepted hypothesis can be called a theory. Facts do not exist in science.
Andrea Yates then killed her children because God wired her that way. I see.
Sure it explains these things. It explains them pretty well.
You clearly don't know much about evolutionary theory. You clearly don't know how science works. But you do have strong beliefs about them.
My homeless friend has strong beliefs in Christianity and the end of days that you wouldn't agree with. Why should i believe, or why should i believe you over him?
Why should I believe you over the Pope, when the Pope says that evolutionary theory is valid and that it is not the role of religion to explain worldly things?
Why do you believe that your beliefs are more valid than the beliefs of the Pope?
Then Jesus is not the God. He is a separate deity. to be worshiped before God, so he can act as attorney on our behalf. The golden calf to be sacrificed, for our sins.
As to murdering, stealing and lying, why do you think those are only wrong in Christian or Jewish religions? Do you believe in civilized countries that don't have a Judeo-Christian basis, that these things are legal?
Oh they WILL protect them. They will also EAT them if needed.
You are confusing loving sacrifice with risk. A wolf risking its well being to protect her cubs is NOT sacrifice. Excuse me, I should say loving sacrifice to be more specific.
Actually, she said it was the Devil who made her do it. Seriously, she said that. It was on the news.
You are beginning to prove my point.
Without morality what are we? Just animals.
And when we ignore our God given conscience long enough, it fades away. So we begin to act like animals.
P.S. Just because a wolf can show affection to a cub or another wolf it doesn't mean that it has morality. They are just animals. Not creatures created in Gods image.
Because I'm not a Christian, I have no morality, and thus, I'm an animal. Is that what you're point is coming to?
As you've made it clear that you know God's will, and know better than the Pope what he thinks and how he made the Earth and animals, can i call you a prophet?
Can you tell me how to create universes and can you perform miracles?
How is it that your are the authority on God, and what God can do, has done and will do?
As God clearly doesn't do anything without explaining it to you, are the God of God?
Can you perform a miracle for me to prove that you have the complete divine knowledge that you claim to have? as God is limited by your beliefs, could you make God appear for me?
The Bible has examples of God showing miracles to unbelievers. Are you saying this is false?
I haven't been the one telling you that I'm correct. I've simply been asking for clarification as to why you believe that you know God better than most other Christians. And why you feel that i should adopt your beliefs over the beliefs of a different Christian.
Because you've made it clear that the rejection of science is a central tenet of Christianity.
You've made it clear that you believe that a man that believes that evolution is a good explanation for how life became so varied, must be a godless man.
You've also been very clear that you know the mind and thoughts of God better than anyone who disagrees with you.
A man like you with special divine knowledge of the mind of God, can surely demonstrate how he is better than the rest of us.
Nope. I never said that. In fact I think that science limits itself when it throws God out of the equation. Many of the first scientists were Christians.
Science is a great way to uncover the workings of creation and to help us understand the material world. Many good things have come from it like medicine, machines etc..
Look if you want to have a productive debate here, you are going to have to stop putting words in my mouth. Otherwise I won't waste my time with this anymore.
One day some teachers of religious law and Pharisees came to Jesus and said, "Teacher, we want you to show us a miraculous sign to prove your authority."
But Jesus replied, "ONLY AN EVIL, ADULTEROUS GENERATION WOULD DEMAND A MIRACULOUS SIGN; BUT THE ONLY SIGN I WILL GIVE THEM IS THE SIGN OF THE PROPHET JONAH. FOR AS JONAH WAS IN THE BELLY OF THE GREAT FISH FOR 3 DAYS AND 3 NIGHTS, SO WILL THE SON OF MAN BE IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH FOR 3 DAYS AND 3 NIGHTS.
Those people DIDN'T ASK FOR MAGIC TRICKS LIKE YOU ARE DOING. They hungered for righteousness. Thats why Jesus ignored the Pharisees.
Things like that still happen in the Christian family even today. Except I doubt you would be around them long enough to witness them. Besides, you wouldn't recognize one if you did see one.
Also, unlike the people in those days you have the luxury of 2000 years of recorded history. Recorded miracles. Jesus' own words speaking to you.
"Gods eternal power and divine nature can be seen and understood through the things that are made, and that this is the reason humanity is without excuse."
Now, that brings us back to science. Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on an earlier comment, I assume you believe in some sort of god.
Now, If you think that a god does exist, then that makes you incredibly stubborn because you would acknowledge that a god exists, hence a miracle, and yet you seek more miracles.
If you do have a better communication link to God than me or the Catholic Pope.
How can anyone know that you see into the mind of God better than other people?
How do we know you're not just lying?
If you truly know and understand creation so well, surely you can perform some small miracles based on this knowledge?
You've made it clear that you don't believe that God created evolution, implying that you know more specifically how God created the world than anyone else.
I don't think God created us through evolution. Although some Christians do believe this. And I respect that.
Evolution is a very weak theory. I completely reject macro-evolution for scientific reasons. I already mentioned some of those reasons in an earlier comment.
The burden of proof is on you to tell me why those aren't valid reasons.
There's a few of problems with teaching you evolution in 500 chars.
Your scientific foundation is weak. Your professor cheated you.
Some of your scientific reasons, really have nothing to do with evolution. Like your idea that a cell self assembled. No one believes that happened. So what is there to prove?
The problem is there are big in your knowledge. And only you can spend the time filling them in. I can't learn the basics for you.
Consider the reverse. Say someone who knew nothing about Christianity found ten raandom pages torn out of a bible.
They read them, then believed they understood Christianity. It would be your job, to prove them wrong, on YouTube, right? You wouldn't suggest that they attend a church or read more, right? It would be about proof, not knowledge?
Of course not.
You know a couple of things about evolution, but from what you say, it's clear you don't understand it.
Are you really posting on YouTube to get an education in the sciences?
Are you incapable of Self Study or taking a few classes?
Are you static, unable to learn?
You haven't really given any reasons for rejecting it, except for some false claims. Like the idea that cells just randomly formed. No evolutionary scientist believes this.
If you want to disprove evolution, you should at least start with components of the theory, rather than try to disprove ideas that don't go with the theory.
When you disprove claims that the theory doesn't suggest, what have you done? You've shown that you really haven't studied the theory.
I suggest you take a semester of Macro-biology and then a semester of Micro-biology. If you are still unsure about evolution at that point, take a semester of Physical Anthropology. You will learn about ancient hominids, predecessors to homo sapiens; - Australopithicus afarensis, Australopithicus gracile, Australopithicus robustus, Homo erectus and Neanderthals etc..
I suggest you take a complete semester course on Physical Anthropology. All the bones and hominid remains (not just bones but crude tools, dwellings and cooking fires, as well) can fill an entire museum and scientists are finding more every year.
you're too dumb to bother with - get an education..
"Once again I must repeat myself. God wrote His laws on the hearts of every man. Romans 2:15"
You can quote this, but I don't see how you can demonstrate this. In the case of some people I've known and some infamous serial killers, I think God was napping and forgot.
These people don't choose to lack the knowledge of right from wrong, they aren't wired for it. Perhaps many of the humans in the world in your view, are not imbued with a soul, but are just animals?
I have my own personal idea about animals and afterlife.
I think that all animals, including my dog will go to heaven. But not as we know them. I think that since God gave them life then when they die, that part of them that was alive reunites with their creator. So I think that Teddy (my dog) will, in a sense, be in heaven.
The bible is silent on this matter, but that doesn't mean it can't be true. This is just my personal opinion.
You can believe that God isn't limited by the pages of the Bible.
The Bible can be wrong also. We have brains. We can use logic. We can learn to do math. If this is God's image, then God would want us to use these faculties.
You make the point that the laws our in our heart. So does that Bible trump those laws? Or does the heart come first?
Based on that comment, its fair to say that you have an incredible amount of prejudice and bias.
Wow. I didn't stand a chance did I.
I never said dogs didn't have souls. I don't know if they do or not. Your prejudices and biases led you to ASSUME you knew what I believed about that.
I simply said that HUMANS DO HAVE SOULS. Thats important because it implies that we were created.
Your confusing neurological processes with our spiritual side.
i do not believe that Jeffrey Dahlmer's or John Wayne Gacey's hearts were touched by the laws of God. I beleive that they were wired differently.
If true, this makes them only animals. Implying that god makes animals in human form.
I feel that I have a sense of morals, but I don't believe that a Christian God wrote them on my heart. Therefore from your point of few, I must be an animal. I'm simply wired that way.
Then he's not responsible, and maybe he's in heaven?
Where I first began to lose beliefs in a Christian God is in my pain in trying to love a God that created most of us, so he could torture us for all eternity.
Imagine a shepherd that acquires a flock of 100 sheep. He spends his days torturing 80 of them, and grooming and giving loving care to 20 of them. You go out and see him, applying hot irons to his screaming sheep.
What kind of man would do this? Why should we love this kind of God?
Warren wrote a book in which sold millions. How is your book selling? Maybe you believe all who respect Rick Warren are stupid. That makes you and yours more intelligent, more enlightened. Sorry, I don't think so.
Has Ralphdraw3 every heard of Democrats and black churches, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Martin Luther King Jr. Over 10,000 people attend Saddleback weekly. If it is so easy, why haven't you build a following. As I look at the number of hits on this site at about 250, I'm "really impressed"
The evangelicals are stupid since Dubya sucked them in to support him. Obama did not do well with the 26% of Americans that call themselves evangelicals during the faith conversation. This was not a debate but rather a conversation about issues that interest evangelicals. Each candidate spent one hour answering Warren's questions. Obama thought he could parse his pro-choice position but it did not wash well with the evangelicals. It's too bad that the US sucked itself into mixing church & state.
You cannot compare Islam with true Christianity, Love you neighbor, gives no place for violence or domination. To suggest more of Love (Christianity)in our politics is the same as more hate and intolerance (Islam)
is very intellectually dishonest. Again only an unthinking politically liberal minded person could suggest that they are one and the same. Our founding fathers quoted scripture more than anything else and when they weren't quoting the bible they were quoting people who were.
hagee is a disgusting, vile hate-filled, crazy, insane creature. I am stunned by the number of sheep that flock to that demon. If hagee grew a trimmed mustache, lost 110 pounds he could pass as hitlers (more) evil twin brother. And his cult should NOT be tax exempt.
It is really embarrassing to listen to someone talk about something they know nothing about and are too confused to know what to say about anything having to do with the subject of their own posted video. You can't just say things you hear with no facts or understanding of what you heard or why. There is a proverb in the bible you would do well to apply. "Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps his mouth shut".
I would hope that we the sheep of the United States of America will someday see that, while it shows strength of character to have faith in something bigger than ourselves ,[if only to keep us humble] ,we cant vote for a person who would Pander religion for A vote or someone who's pride compels them to tell us he's more religious than another. You'll know a true man with heart and faith by the non judgmental equalizing good he seeks and does for his fellow man, Jesus uplifted the poor.
I think religion should be kept separate from politics, and if its not, tax em. Also if my tax dollars will go to help faith based charities, tax em. If I wanted to help churches I would give to them other than on tax day.
I saw the thing with Larry King about religious cults. As far as i'm concerned they are all cultish. The gov supports that kind of thing, since the gov is a kind of master cult and the other religions are sub cults. It's bad because children are brought up being force fed lies, and they have been conceptually neutered or conceptually fragmented, and do not have an identity outside of their contrived reality. In other words if they want to be somebody they have to repeat the stupid stuff.
It does not really matter what the religion is. It is just that people what to feel good about being dumb shits. They put on their sunday go to meeting costumes, and make a play for status or belonging, and the preacher has professional propaganda tendencies and will try to sell them an "insurance policy" for "Amageddon". Then sadly most people will believe anything to be accepted and saved. This is why we need cyborg terminators. To clean out the lie peddling fatboys and their harlots.
you are an idiot if you don't think that religions were created to control people. It's fine if you need this confort blanket, just don't throw it at me, and especially your kids! Let your kids make there mind up about what they want to believe. i see it everyday and i get it, you are just like the kid that's afraid of the closet monster and you never learn to grow some balls and go look and see that there was no gay monster hiding in your closet, it was just YOU hiding from the truth!
broadcastmyass4u 1 year ago
The Government isn't here to save your soul. It's here to save your butt. Although morality is very important, Religion should only factor in, at the poles and not in the campaign. Government and Religion must only co-exist and never merge. I am not atheist and take my faith extremely serious.
litefogg 1 year ago
organized religion is a shame. They are ripping you off. Why ask for money, why give donations when you can worship at home.
rikskelton138 2 years ago
That is not the original Saddleback Tent...get your facts straight. The tent is Overdrive, a venue on the Saddleback campus. That was not a fund raiser, but the Overdrive venue...just like that every Sunday.
Saddleback has done more for the poor than probably any other church I know of. The civil forum was not Rick's idea, but that of the candidates. Take your gripe to the candidates...
mulliganville 2 years ago
deleted...
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
It is also located in the Orange County, if you know about the wealth of that area, you'd know why that church is doing well. The line "Not only power corrupt, but money corrupt," didn't really do it for me, and although it is true in many cases, there are exceptions.
If you're going to make a video about the debate, I suggest you watch the debate & do your bloody homework. Mccain's got Hagee, Obama's got Wright. And how did this video of Saddleback bashing got to John Hagee bashing?
lutonduke 3 years ago
Wright did not endorse Obama,
Hagee has been in trouble with IRS for years.
Hagee is a multimillionaire
Hagee speaks before radical righwing Jewish organizations
Hagee is anti-Catholic
WHAT DOES SADDLEBACK DO FOR THE POOR AND THE DOWNTRODDEN?? ANYTHING??
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
Actually I think "PEACE" plan from Saddleback church, and their work in aids prevention in Africa is pretty solid and clean...unlike other organisations.
...and mate, calm down. No need to get angry to the point of caps locking. And here I thought we can discuss/debate the matter with some civility.
lutonduke 3 years ago
What "peace" plan?
does it include bombing Iran??
or a 100 year war with Iraq?
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
For that, you would have to ask the church, or research for yourself. [considering you're the citizen "journalist"]
But from what I've read of it, they don't seem to include the bombing of countries nor a century long war. Although I suspect your government is already doing a good job at that on its own. Again, I more than welcome INTELLIGENT discussion on this matter. These criticism are here to help you, I'm not one of those people who criticise without reason.
lutonduke 3 years ago
1 - make your video, make it intelligent too
2 - asking the "church" is not really possible
3 - my guess is that most of Saddleback's congregation supported the war in Iraq and voted for George Bush (probably twice - 2000 and 2004), because, as you correctly point out, Orange County is wealthy/rich and Republican.
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
1 - Make any sort of video? =)
2 - I've done it on several occasion for a University report over here, and they were pretty nice about it. You'd be surprise at how nice some Christians are.
3 - I doubt everyone who adhere to the Christian religion all vote the same way, I don't think that can happen to a church of 23,000. Yes, OC is wealthy, and about 50% are Reps. Now, are these 50 saddleback members? Quite Possibly. Are there Democrats who goes to saddleback? Quite Possibly =)
lutonduke 3 years ago
1) ANY video - but make it intelligent
2) Most of the Christians here are nasty and awful (most of them, particularly those in the South and are white) -
they like war and violence
they support torture
they hate foreigners (Mexicans esp.) and African Americans
they hate homosexuals
they couldn't care less about the poor..
:)
you'd be surprised at how awful they are :)
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
1) I did, mostly for class projects, but it doesn't fit within the data limit of youtube. =)
2) That's interesting + horrible, and it's the exact opposite of what Christianity is supposed to be [I think]. =( I have many Christian friends over here from NZ, Australia, but some are American and are very nice ^^
3) Thank you for the correct information, I used the archive from OCvote, and my result of 55 percent was from the 2000 gen, but I went back and saw that 2004 was 60% Wow ^^
lutonduke 3 years ago
BTW you are wrong about Orange County - it is overwhelming Republican:
It voted Republican in the last 5 presidential elections
1988 Bush41
1992 Bush41
1996 Dole
2000 Bush 43
2004 Bush 43
Based on this record of Orange County voters, Saddleback Church is probably, at the least, 60% Republican; more likely - because it is an evangelical church - 75% to 80% Republican and conservative.
:)
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
Yeah I am not one to do this but if you are going to start bashing someone on something try watching the saddleback debate or hell even doing more reserrch on some one then saying you dont have enough time to find all the details. Also quit useing words like "apperentlly" or "from what I hear" it really means you dont have a clue what your talking about. And that is all.
drumtable 3 years ago
Make your own video!!
drumtable
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Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
wow your not one sided in your views
yugihoo 3 years ago
Wake up Ralfff! This tightly woven fabric in our nation has been going on since our founding 200 yrs ago. Your an uneducated bigot to say this reminds you of the radical muslim nations. I don't recall Christians flying planes into buildings of hacking off your kids head! I don't see Christians blowing up school children in Russia or becoming suicide bombers killing jews. I see them coming to the aid of those who are victoms of terror and doing good in the face of evil, dispite asses like you!!
WHEELSRUP 3 years ago
you want to fight 1 billion Muslims??
SIGN UP FOR THE ARMY TODAY.
1-800-USA-ARMY;
BTW: IRAQ HAD N-O-T-H-I-N-G TO DO WITH THE ATTACK ON 9-11
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
Somebody has to do it.
And we all know it won't be limp-wristed pansies like you.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Ralph,
Biased bathroom wall advise. The problem with people like you is the narrow mindedness of your secularist agenda that has removed all conscience of accountability. Whether you want to believe it or not, the day is comming that God will judge you and what will you have to say? Based upon your ignorance of the importance of the saddle back debate that showed to the American public where the Presidential Elects stand on issues that really matter, I think your opinion is, "Null and Void."
wds67 3 years ago
Umm wow! yes there was an "apparent debate" at a church called saddleback in CA!1)Learn to read and 2)try and research who and what u are talking about before you make a video trying to prove something. This is a perfect example of y Americans are so ignorant when it comes to candid knowledge about issues regarding things outside their measley little commodity consuming lives. I dnt think that a church that has more public outreach and volunteer programs than some small states should b bashed.
basebalgi17 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
John McCain, in his own words, in his book [Worth the Fighting For]. "I didn't decide to run for president to start a national crusade for the political reforms I believed in or to run a campaign as if it were some grand act of patriotism. In truth, I wanted to be president because it had become my ambition to become president.I was 62 years old when I made the decision, and I thought it was my one shot at the prize" At 72 for mccain its still just a game. Americans wont win in mccains game.
tttaylor18 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Asked the question from a reporter to mccain of how many houses he and his recent wife owns, Mccain replied "4 condos ah im not sure my staff will get back with you with the answer". Mccain could'nt remember that its 10, For someone who only considers a person to be rich if he has 5 million or more, mccain is not only out of touch with the common/average worker,but truly inept and out of touch with cognitive thought less his handlers help him. America choose intelligences over status quo...
tttaylor18 3 years ago
CNN doesn't like it that Warren did a better job moderating a debate then they did...plain and simple. Bottom line is the networks have done such a bad job on these debates, and this exposed it.
ace8842 3 years ago
Dude, can I bum a cigarette?
M1I2K3E4567 3 years ago
rather go to Saddleback than Trinity!
BestPoliticalVideos 3 years ago
Unfortunately, and sadly, you are making judgement calls when you admittedly don't take the time to study the details, (or the facts). Rick Warren himself said He believes in "Separation of Church and State, but... not in the separation of politics from religion." Separation of Church and State IS NOT in the Constitution as the secular humanists have so well duped the masses to believe. Rick Warren did not endorse either candidate in this forum either, nor has he from his pulpit.
jimmyrocko 3 years ago
I totally agree with you Ralph. I feel that all religions run the same game. And some religions - politico religous movement ( I call it ) - has allot to do with our global problems. Thanks of posting the video!
moneymagnetelizabeth 3 years ago
Just watch the Larry King interview with Rick Warren... it will explain the "cone of isolation" was just that isolation.
icebox222 3 years ago
Finally Obama has to answer tough questions and look how it went...... "above my pay grade" LOL Forums like this will hope independent voters make the right decision. Thanks Rick Warren for asking meaningful and important questions that America needs answered before November.
icebox222 3 years ago
Johnny McCain looks like he got the questions in advance and was not in the "cone of isolation".
Not on does BUSH LIE; AND CHENEY LIES
BUT PASTOR RICK LIES as well..
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
Let the Obama campaign make the accusations. They are in a much better position to do that than you are. They were there you know.
You are just another person who is caught up in this OBAMA MANIA. You're seeing your "messiah" start to falter and you don't know what to do.
So you get on youtube and attack, spread false rumors, and lie.
How pathetic.
bsktball83 3 years ago
The hatred in this video amazes me. I am a Pastor of 15 years, have helped thousands of people in rebuilding efforts after Katrina, through tornado devastation and disaster in Tennessee, helped probably thousands of people through benevolent outreach efforts through our awful "money making" churches. I make 30k a year for a family of six, live in a house that isn't my own, and have two cars with 100k miles on them.
altoidaddict1970 3 years ago
I gave up a life in Business Admin to pursue a life of servanthood and ministry. Hopefully bettering my world and my fellow man. I believe in a loving God who created us and a Savior who came to save man from his sinful ways. Because of that I am hated, a lead a "cult," and am basically an idiot. ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. AMERICA IS IN TROUBLE. Where's the tolerance liberals? Where's the open-mindedness. I am not condoning some of the preachers you mentioned, but not all of us are so bad. GOD HELP US.
altoidaddict1970 3 years ago
What do you think of Hagee and Parsley and the bigot/adulterer Jimmy Swaggert and the homophobic Swiggert(sp) who was caught with the male prostitute?
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
too bad you're not making the Big Money like Pastor Rick...
I suggest writing a book (along the lines of Pastor Rick) and opening up a church in a very rich/Republican community - a la Orange County, California...)
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
Yea? I would much rather do that than wait for a socialist government created by liberals to give me free handouts.
While you sit there and wait for your government to do everything for you, don't forget to ASK IT TO GIVE YOU SOME SELF RESPECT AND DIGNITY!!
bsktball83 3 years ago
"I started looking into this Saddleback Church and Rick arren just to see how phoney he is..." His agenda preceded the "research" so how objective is this guy?
gevansmd 3 years ago
Do your own research...
do your own video...
post it here in response...
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
I watched it and while I found Warren to be an OK guy, I still don't believe in mixing church and state. In fact during this conversation Obama said just that
Fringe111 3 years ago
Religion and politics will always mix. Why? Because your religious persuasions affect your world view and how you see certain issues. Even if you are agnostic or athiest, THAT affects how you see certain issues. So in a way everyone lets their religious ideas affect their politics.
Thomas Jefferson's comments about church and state are totally taken out of context all the time. You can be religious or athiest and also be political. Why do you think they painted Moses in the capital?
joelmeiners 3 years ago
Ralph,it's a good idea to watch it before trashing it. I actually found Warren to be a nice man. He was generous non combative to Barack and very fair when questioning him. The problem was the subject matter was 85% wedge Issues in Warrens church. by default a McCain croud But the gave Barack a very warm welcome and never showed any sign of disrespect or other wise. I nominate Warren to be the moderater the political debates
BloodNGutts 3 years ago
It turns out that Rick Warren and his church were charging $500 to $1000 per ticket to the " open " forum. Many people Orange County had tried for a week to get tickets to the debate and were told that tickets were not available.
(all this means, the audience was self selected, rich people who were in good with Pastor Warren.)
It also turns out that McCain may have (or probably) heard the debate questions in advance since he went AFTER Obama and WAS NOT in isolation.
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
Then why won't the Obama campaign say he was cheating? Its because they know it was impossible. Staff and secret service were with McCain the whole time.
Why are people like you trying to go around and start this little WHISPERING CAMPAIGN to spread rumors?
I now realize why Obama doesn't want to take up McCain's challenge and debate in town halls across the country.
It's because Obama is nothing without his speeches and talking points, which by the way are written by his staff members.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Judaism, Islam, and Christianity all spring from the same poison well; all three make life on Earth a living hell for all reasonably thinking human beings!
Wake up! The world isn't flat and isn't held up by pillars, and those holy books of yours are all murderous fairytales made up by man to rule the masses!
It is sad Obama is a Christian, but I won't hold that against him. At least he isn't a warmongering, senile old misogynist like McSame! So Obama has my vote! (smile)
wiskawind 3 years ago
As a country dominated by Christians since 1776, I think we've done pretty good. NOT PERFECT, BUT STILL BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE.
Why change that now?
THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU to show that a country led by atheist leaders will do better, OVERALL, than one led by Christian leaders.
People don't immigrate to places that suck.
Christian America is, and always has been a great place to live. We have over 230 years of astronomical immigration to show for it.
What do you have?
bsktball83 3 years ago
Christians who thought that slavery was O.K.??
Christians who thought that the trading in slaves was O.K.??
Christians who thought that killing Indians and taking their land was O.K.??
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
I did say NOT PERFECT didn't I?
Don't point your finger only at Christians now. Atheists traded and sold slaves too.
I made it very clear that I was referring to the OVERALL status and history of the United States compared to other countries.
You obviously didn't get that message.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Great argument!!!
Christians are no more moral than atheists and heathens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
Being a Christian doesn't mean you don't sin. All people sin. Its in our nature.
The difference is that a true Christian knows what his sin is.
Thats why IT WAS THE CHRISTIAN MOVEMENT THAT ENDED SLAVERY.
Had we all been "Atheists and Heathens" like yourself, slavery would still be around today.
Many people have done bad things while hiding behind a mask of Christianity. But does that discredit Christianity? No.
People counterfeit only what is good.
bsktball83 3 years ago
LOL the South - the home and defender of Slavery and racial segregation - is also the center of rightwing Christianity.
Seems like the South is mixing religion, discrimination, racism, bigotry and politics..
CANTvoteHillary 3 years ago
California is not part of the "south".
bsktball83 3 years ago
Look at it in terms of money.
What gets counter fitted more, 100 dollar bills or 10 dollar bills?
Do you get the point?
People counterfeit what is good.
There were definitely slave owners who CALLED THEMSELVES Christians. But they weren't really Christians at heart. Just when it was convenient.
CHRISTIANITY DIDN'T ENSLAVE African Americans.
People who CALLED THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS, enslaved African Americans.
There's a huge difference.
bsktball83 3 years ago
And today, PEOPLE WHO CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS support an immoral war in Iraq and immoral president Dumbya Bush..
CANTvoteHillary 3 years ago
Our forefathers didn't trust the church and weren't as religious as many people like to paint them.
Thomas Jefferson didn't believe that Jesus could perform miracles, so he removed all of the passages in his Bible in which Jesus performed magic tricks.
Benjamin Franklin doesn't seem to have been religious all.
Thomas Paine was agnostic.
The Christian Movement in US politics really started in the 1950s.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
No. The Christian movement in the U.S. started before the U.S. even existed.
It started when the first pilgrims moved here in search of religious freedom.
How can you imply that Christianity and politics weren't interrelated before the 1950's?
To quote Rick Warren "Christianity is a world view. And everybody has a world view."
Are you telling me that your world view doesn't influence how you vote?
Logic would tell you that it would be impossible.
bsktball83 3 years ago
The Pilgrims played no role in drafting the US Constitution or forming the original colonial government. I'm surprised that you think they did.
The framers of the US Constitution worked to avoid a theocratic government. Since the 1950s, there has been a stronger movement to convert the US Government into a theocracy.
You're saying that because there are Christians in our government, we have theocracy.
That's like saying there are fish in water, therefore, water is made of fish.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
I don't want a theocracy. I don't believe in it. Jesus never forced anyone to follow Him.
Here is what bothers me.
It seems like you want me to leave my faith at home when I go to Washington. Thats wrong.
If you think that Christianity had no role in framing our constitution, then why is the first amendment about freedom of religion?
What religion do you think they were refering to? Hinduism or Islam? THEY WERE CHRISTIANS. Thats what they wanted to protect. Thats why we have that amendment.
bsktball83 3 years ago
If it's a Christian government and always has been, then it's a theocracy.
I don't care how and when you practice your faith, except when you use it inb government to decide mine.
When you take the Ten Commandments into government, you're telling me that you are my high priest, and you're telling me how I must worship.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
The government isn't Christian. People are. You can be in the government and still be a Christian.
I think I see what you are saying. If I was ever elected to office, you expect me to throw out my world view, and adopt yours.
Thats fair.
The 10 commandments is like moral blueprint 4 Christians.
But to tell you the truth, I wouldn't mind imposing parts of it on other people.
You know, like the part that says you shouldn't murder, steal or lie. I think that would be kind of nice.
bsktball83 3 years ago
I'm not ignorant of Christianity I've been to bible school in several denominations.
Some sects of Christianity are radically different.
Which version of Christianity do you believe we should base our laws on? Catholicism? Mormonism? Southern Methodist? Mennonite?
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
The one that shows the love of Jesus Christ.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Oh, Jesuit then.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
lol
bsktball83 3 years ago
Would Jesus approve of war and lying?? and torture??
CANTvoteHillary 3 years ago
No.
bsktball83 3 years ago
You don't have to tell lies about my position to have a conversation with me.
You're arguing that our government is based on theocratic principles based on Christian and Jewish laws.
When in fact it is based up previous contracts, laws and constitutional contracts that freed our ancestors to varying degrees from the oppression of the church and monarchies.
But they weren't your kind of Christian. they didn't worship like you did. Thomas Jefferson didn't even believe in the divinity of Jesus.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
OK. I see that you love to bring up Thomas Jefferson. So I found some quotes of his.
"It [the Bible] is a document in proof that I
am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." Thomas Jefferson [Jan 9, 1816 Letter to Charles Thomson]
Did he believe in the DIVINITY of Jesus? Maybe not.
Did he have a Christian world view? ABSOLUTELY.
Did he think that it was OK 4 a president to have a Christian world view? Of course.
So Y do u keep bringing up his name?
bsktball83 3 years ago
Because you keep arguing that the USA is Christian Theocratic nation.
You keep calling it a Christian nation, to me, that's the same thing.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
Go gaze upon the walls of the supreme court and look that the 10 COMMANDMENTS WHICH ARE STILL THERE!
Then have the nerve to come back and repeat your comment.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Listen, the Ten Commandments are not the US Constitution. They are not the basis for our laws and system of government.
And why do Christians use the Ten Commandments anyway. It clearly states that you may not worship any other God. Making it blasphemy to worship Jesus.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
The "separation of church and state" isn't in the constitution either.
The "separation of church and state" came from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802.
The idea was to create a "wall of separation" between church and state.
And I couldn't agree more. I don't want my government telling me how to worship and who to worship. I don't want them telling me what denomination I have to belong to.
This was the problem back in England. Which is why the pilgrims left.
bsktball83 3 years ago
You forgot the First Amendment.
Once you declare that the government is Christian, you remove rights for Judaism and other religions.
The next step after that is to pass laws defining what Christianity is. After all, that's what lawmakers do, once they give the government authority over something.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
This country was founded on Judeo-Christion principles and ideas.
Part of that means that you can be any religion you want. God gave us free will. You can choose Him or reject Him. But thats your choice.
If you become a Christian only because you were forced to, does that bring you any closer to Jesus? No. It has to be from the heart under you own free will.
Thats what Christianity is all about. Thats why you can be any religion you want in the U.S.
bsktball83 3 years ago
God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are one entity. Jesus IS God and God is Jesus.
Think of it like water in all its 3 forms; liquid, solid and gas.
Read Isaiah chapter 53 in the Old Testament and you will see how Jesus, "Gods Right Arm" is prophesied to come to earth and die for the sins of the world.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Now you're imposing your religious beliefs on me.
A right arm is like a captain in this context. It's not meant to be interpreted as an actual arm. It's symbolic.
The three gods you refer to, come from the problem the Catholic Church had in absorbing heathen religions and with the Cathars who saw Jesus as a man to be followed and not a god to be worshiped.
These three separate entities and concepts had to be combined, lest people who had been poltheists, see Catholicism as polytheism.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
Many other religions, like Buddhism see the many gods as faces or entities derived from one.
So the Catholic Church that it lies about being monotheist, borrows the same context that the many Gods share a common form, it lies to itself and pretends this is really monotheism.
Where it truly splits from other faiths is that it divides man from this relationship. Many other faiths place many as a part of this unity.
This is obvious from outside the religion.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
Isaiah 53 is clearly speaking about the Messiah. Ordinary men don't die for the sins of the world. Not to mention living a sinless life.
This concept comes from the bible. Not the catholic church.
I'm sure though that you believe the new testament is NOT inspired by God, but instead written by ordinary men.
There is lots of historical and archaeological evidence that validates and gives credibility to the new testament as the inspired word of God.
But that would be another debate entirely
bsktball83 3 years ago
Ok, I'll bite. What's the archaeological evidence that God inspired men to write these things?
I thought the belief in God was a matter of faith. Has someone found a physical part of God, or a device for talking directly to God? Did God leave his signature on a clay tablet?
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
God's signature? Its written all over this universe which He caused to come into existence out of nothing. It is written in you genetic code and the LAWS of science.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Are you saying that I'll find Bible verses in our genetic code?
You said you can prove that man didn't think up any of the text in the Holy Bible, that God 'inspired it'.
Now if you're saying that man was inspired to write a religious text, we could say that God inspired Darwin to write the scientific text, 'Origin of the Species'.
But that's not proof.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
No. I said that your genetic code points to a designer.
I don't know what Darwin has to do with any of this.
Do you believe that God intervenes our lives?
bsktball83 3 years ago
I'm trying to understand what you think would constitute irrefutable proof that God touched something. Would it glow in the dark? Exhibit properties that defy measurement?
I think that your argument boils down to the fact that you believe it. And what you believe in, must be correct.
But how can I decide that what you believe has more value than my homeless friend Beau, who tells me prophecies? After I know him personally.
I don't believe that God intervenes in our lives.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
The universe coming into existence out of nothing isn't proof enough for you? Despite the 1st law of thermodynamics?
How about our DNA molecules coming together DESPITE the 2nd law of thermodynamics?
How could a universe without purpose create us human beings who are so OBSESSED with purpose?
I see God in biology, physics, chemistry, a painting, a dad playing with his son etc..
What is it you need to believe in God?
I could say the same about you. It boils down to what you want to believe.
bsktball83 3 years ago
I don't know that the universe came into existence from nothing.
The bonding of DNA doesn't violate the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Concentrated order can come from disorder, in the service of increased disorder. Like a matchbox car doing a loop after descending a slope. The net effect is till that energy is spent, even though the car momentarily stores energy as it climbs the loop.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
For the first cell to come together on its own would be an astronomical coincidence. More like impossible.
Your answer seems pretty simple. Unfortunately its not that easy. I am not an expert on this. But I have talked to one.
My microbiology professor once mentioned the law of abiogenesis in class. I asked him after class how he thinks the first living organism was formed on earth. He said that he believes it was a spore from outer space.
He's been teaching MB for 30+ years and has a PHD.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Yes, a cell coming together like that is very unlikely. Scientists don't believe that happened.
Your story about your professor is very strange. Perhaps this is why he's teaching and not doing?
You paid good money for a crappy education.
Actually, each step in a complex event is often simple. Just as each part of a watch is simple. And watches evolved technologically from simpler timepieces, much as life has.
From water dripping, to pendulums, to geared pendulums, to more gears, hands...
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
Watches in fact are great examples of how things evolve in technology as they evolve in nature.
The early Catholic monks used a pendulum as an advanced timepiece over water and sand clocks, and counted every swing.
Later, simple gearing was added, to make the counting easier. As they became more complicated, more gears were added, from the original templates of gears. Hand were affixed to show gear positions. Markings on the gears became dials.
Each part is simple, as complexity increases.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
Here are some books for you to look into. I can't minimize entire books into 500 characters just so you can see things from my perspective.
Besides if you really cared for the truth you wouldn't have a problem reading some of this stuff anyway, right?
Here you go
The Case For Christ & The Case For A Creator both by Lee Strobel
Letters From a Skeptic by Gregory Boyd
The Bible
I hope that you will keep an open mind and actually read the opposing viewpoint instead of bashing on the authors.
bsktball83 3 years ago
I'm not going to bash the authors, no more than I'm bashing you.
I'm just arguing with you.
Christians in general, have a big issue with vanity. We're all taught that only Christ or God can teach us right from wrong, that without the Bible, people have no way of knowing that hurting other people is wrong. This is a lie.
And the entire Christian Religion has God worshiping man. He created Man and placed him in the center of his universe. That has always struck me as the height of vanity.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
God wrote His laws on the hearts of every man. Romans 2:15
Its called a conscience. Morality DID come from God.
How could nature have SELECTED morality? Morality is all about sacrifice. Natural selection would cause us to become MORE selfish over time so as to increase our own chance of survival.
We have morality and an appreciation of beautiful things because we were created in Gods own image.
bsktball83 3 years ago
You have a strange view of nature.
Evolution is based on the idea that the individual is unimportant. The genes or patterns of genes are what matters. So the sacrifice of an individual is unimportant, so long as the genes that individual contains carries on.
There are simple examples in nature that disprove your notion. Take honeybees or ants, each individual will self sacrifice without hesitation for the hive. Because if the hive is protected, their genes carry on, in others.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
In higher organisms we have many examples of self sacrifice.
Altruism is a valid piece of evolutionary theory.
You idea that we would evolve to only care for ourselves, would lead to extinction, because it is an opposing theory of the evolutionary theory.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
The question is weather they do it out of love, or necessity. I would say necessity. Thats the way God wired them to be.
You invoke MACRO-evolution like its a fact.
It has pretty much been discredited by the Cambrian explosion and lack of intermediary fossils. Not to mention that macro-evolution would HAVE TO explain abiogenesis. Which it can't do.
Hence we must move on to another theory that offers a better explanation.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Actually, evolution, like gravity and light, is described by a theory. In science, there are no facts. There is evidence and hypothesis. A well accepted hypothesis can be called a theory. Facts do not exist in science.
Andrea Yates then killed her children because God wired her that way. I see.
Sure it explains these things. It explains them pretty well.
You clearly don't know much about evolutionary theory. You clearly don't know how science works. But you do have strong beliefs about them.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
My homeless friend has strong beliefs in Christianity and the end of days that you wouldn't agree with. Why should i believe, or why should i believe you over him?
Why should I believe you over the Pope, when the Pope says that evolutionary theory is valid and that it is not the role of religion to explain worldly things?
Why do you believe that your beliefs are more valid than the beliefs of the Pope?
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
I know its symbolic. LOL. You don't really think that I think it was Gods actual arm do you? God is a spirit so I doubt he has an actual human body.
I'm imposing my religious beliefs on you?! How?!
Now I see what the problem is. It doesn't matter what I say, because if you disagree with it, then you will get offended. I see now.
"In free countries every man is entitle to express his opinions and every other man is entitled not to listen" G. Norman Collie
bsktball83 3 years ago
I'm not offended.
Then Jesus is not the God. He is a separate deity. to be worshiped before God, so he can act as attorney on our behalf. The golden calf to be sacrificed, for our sins.
As to murdering, stealing and lying, why do you think those are only wrong in Christian or Jewish religions? Do you believe in civilized countries that don't have a Judeo-Christian basis, that these things are legal?
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
If you're right, then wolves won't protect their pack and young. Roosters won't protect their hens.
So you won't find examples of self sacrifice in animals, because they aren't Christians.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
Oh they WILL protect them. They will also EAT them if needed.
You are confusing loving sacrifice with risk. A wolf risking its well being to protect her cubs is NOT sacrifice. Excuse me, I should say loving sacrifice to be more specific.
bsktball83 3 years ago
How do you know for a fact, what wolves think and feel? Can you read their minds.
Because Andrea Yates killed her children, can I assume that God made her do it? Or does this make her a wolf? an animal, abandoned by God?
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
Actually, she said it was the Devil who made her do it. Seriously, she said that. It was on the news.
You are beginning to prove my point.
Without morality what are we? Just animals.
And when we ignore our God given conscience long enough, it fades away. So we begin to act like animals.
P.S. Just because a wolf can show affection to a cub or another wolf it doesn't mean that it has morality. They are just animals. Not creatures created in Gods image.
bsktball83 3 years ago
So non-Christians are just animals?
Because I'm not a Christian, I have no morality, and thus, I'm an animal. Is that what you're point is coming to?
As you've made it clear that you know God's will, and know better than the Pope what he thinks and how he made the Earth and animals, can i call you a prophet?
Can you tell me how to create universes and can you perform miracles?
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
How is it that your are the authority on God, and what God can do, has done and will do?
As God clearly doesn't do anything without explaining it to you, are the God of God?
Can you perform a miracle for me to prove that you have the complete divine knowledge that you claim to have? as God is limited by your beliefs, could you make God appear for me?
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
God is the authority on Himself.
I only choose to believe in Him and do my best to follow Him.
Someone like you WILL NEVER see a miracle. NEVER.
Because when you do, you won't admit it.
You will look to science for an explanation.
When science can't give you one, then you will say that we need more time to do more research. Or that EVENTUALLY science will find an answer.
You will rule God out of the equation from the very beginning.
This happens all the time. EX: Multiverse theory.
bsktball83 3 years ago
The Bible has examples of God showing miracles to unbelievers. Are you saying this is false?
I haven't been the one telling you that I'm correct. I've simply been asking for clarification as to why you believe that you know God better than most other Christians. And why you feel that i should adopt your beliefs over the beliefs of a different Christian.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
I know that I'm ignorant. I know that I don't have all the answers.
But you've made it clear that you believe that you know exactly what God did and did not do. you know for a fact that God did not create Evolution.
In this, you've made it clear that the Pope is ignorant of God, and you are not.
How would one choose between you two?
Which of you has the correct teachings? Which of you is preaching a false gospel?
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
Its all about the CROSS. That is the focal point of ALL Christian denominations.
There is plenty of room to disagree on minor details. And thats OK.
Besides, WHY DO YOU CARE?
Are you naive enough to reject Christ as your own personal Lord and Savior simply because you see other Christians disagreeing about details?
Salvation is personal. Its between you and God. All you have to do is accept Christ as the savior who died for your sins.
Make your mind up about the little details later.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Because you've made it clear that the rejection of science is a central tenet of Christianity.
You've made it clear that you believe that a man that believes that evolution is a good explanation for how life became so varied, must be a godless man.
You've also been very clear that you know the mind and thoughts of God better than anyone who disagrees with you.
A man like you with special divine knowledge of the mind of God, can surely demonstrate how he is better than the rest of us.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
Nope. I never said that. In fact I think that science limits itself when it throws God out of the equation. Many of the first scientists were Christians.
Science is a great way to uncover the workings of creation and to help us understand the material world. Many good things have come from it like medicine, machines etc..
Look if you want to have a productive debate here, you are going to have to stop putting words in my mouth. Otherwise I won't waste my time with this anymore.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Matthew 12:38-40
One day some teachers of religious law and Pharisees came to Jesus and said, "Teacher, we want you to show us a miraculous sign to prove your authority."
But Jesus replied, "ONLY AN EVIL, ADULTEROUS GENERATION WOULD DEMAND A MIRACULOUS SIGN; BUT THE ONLY SIGN I WILL GIVE THEM IS THE SIGN OF THE PROPHET JONAH. FOR AS JONAH WAS IN THE BELLY OF THE GREAT FISH FOR 3 DAYS AND 3 NIGHTS, SO WILL THE SON OF MAN BE IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH FOR 3 DAYS AND 3 NIGHTS.
bsktball83 3 years ago
And yet, Jesus did perform miracles, raising the dead, walking on water, etc... to prove his divinity.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
Those people DIDN'T ASK FOR MAGIC TRICKS LIKE YOU ARE DOING. They hungered for righteousness. Thats why Jesus ignored the Pharisees.
Things like that still happen in the Christian family even today. Except I doubt you would be around them long enough to witness them. Besides, you wouldn't recognize one if you did see one.
Also, unlike the people in those days you have the luxury of 2000 years of recorded history. Recorded miracles. Jesus' own words speaking to you.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Miracle?
Romans 1:20
"Gods eternal power and divine nature can be seen and understood through the things that are made, and that this is the reason humanity is without excuse."
Now, that brings us back to science. Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on an earlier comment, I assume you believe in some sort of god.
Now, If you think that a god does exist, then that makes you incredibly stubborn because you would acknowledge that a god exists, hence a miracle, and yet you seek more miracles.
bsktball83 3 years ago
and the teachings of Jesus??
Love thy neighbor?
Forgiveness unto others?
Blessed are the peacemakers?
Charity?
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
Those are all good things right?
You admittingly know about the goodness of Jesus. Good for you.
Why do you hate Him so much then?
bsktball83 3 years ago
Once again I must repeat myself. God wrote His laws on the hearts of every man. Romans 2:15
That means that God gave morality to everyone. But, simply being moral doesn't give you salvation.
There is a God. I know that He created us. I know that He must have done it for a reason which means that we have a purpose.
I know that if thats true then there must be a relationship and a form of communication that exists between man and God.
I found it through the bible, faith and prayer.
bsktball83 3 years ago
If you do have a better communication link to God than me or the Catholic Pope.
How can anyone know that you see into the mind of God better than other people?
How do we know you're not just lying?
If you truly know and understand creation so well, surely you can perform some small miracles based on this knowledge?
You've made it clear that you don't believe that God created evolution, implying that you know more specifically how God created the world than anyone else.
Can you prove it?
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
You've made it clear that the Pope doesn't know the mind of God as well as you do.
you've made it clear that you know the mind of God better than many Christians I know, that have contradicted statements you've made.
How can I know that you are a true prophet of god and not a false prophet?
How can you prove that the Pope is a false prophet?
Can you do this?
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
See into the mind of God? Me? LOL.
I don't think God created us through evolution. Although some Christians do believe this. And I respect that.
Evolution is a very weak theory. I completely reject macro-evolution for scientific reasons. I already mentioned some of those reasons in an earlier comment.
The burden of proof is on you to tell me why those aren't valid reasons.
bsktball83 3 years ago
LOL
What about the helio-centric theory of the solar system? Are the scientists correct on that?
And the existence of continents not mentioned in the Bible:
Australia
Antarctica
North and South America??
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
There's a few of problems with teaching you evolution in 500 chars.
Your scientific foundation is weak. Your professor cheated you.
Some of your scientific reasons, really have nothing to do with evolution. Like your idea that a cell self assembled. No one believes that happened. So what is there to prove?
The problem is there are big in your knowledge. And only you can spend the time filling them in. I can't learn the basics for you.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
Oh OK. I got cheated.
I guess it really doesn't matter what I say then.
I know you think that I have little or no knowledge about anything.
So, if I then try to use scientists to lend credibility to my arguments then you just attack their character.
Whatever man.
Telling me how dumb and intolerant I am doesn't exactly help your own arguments dude.
I'm done here.
Take care.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Consider the reverse. Say someone who knew nothing about Christianity found ten raandom pages torn out of a bible.
They read them, then believed they understood Christianity. It would be your job, to prove them wrong, on YouTube, right? You wouldn't suggest that they attend a church or read more, right? It would be about proof, not knowledge?
Of course not.
You know a couple of things about evolution, but from what you say, it's clear you don't understand it.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
I understand that evolution is a theory who's foundation has crumbled in light of new scientific evidence in the past couple of decades.
Yet you belittle me for rejecting it, and at the same time you offer no answers to my reasons for rejecting it.
Instead you criticize me and belittle me with your know it all attitude. You've done that very well.
Thats just great.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Yes, I too have heard a great many people who don't understand evolution, say that it's foundation is crumbling.
You've made it clear that you learned about evolution from a guy that thinks that life came to earth in some sort of pods or something.
You've made statements about evolution and science that are completely false.
Am I supposed to lie to you, and tell you that really knowledgeable on this topic, when it's obvious that you got a crummy education on the topic?
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
Are you really posting on YouTube to get an education in the sciences?
Are you incapable of Self Study or taking a few classes?
Are you static, unable to learn?
You haven't really given any reasons for rejecting it, except for some false claims. Like the idea that cells just randomly formed. No evolutionary scientist believes this.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
If you want to disprove evolution, you should at least start with components of the theory, rather than try to disprove ideas that don't go with the theory.
When you disprove claims that the theory doesn't suggest, what have you done? You've shown that you really haven't studied the theory.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
Also, There is this book called The Case For a Creator, by Lee Strobel.
He is a journalist who used to be an atheist. The entire book is about him interviewing scientists who reject evolution, believe in ID etc...
You can get it from almost any bookstore.
OR you can just Youtube it. There are 7 parts, supposedly based on the book. I haven't looked at them though.
Its pretty interesting. I hope that you will keep an open mind and check it out whenever you can.
bsktball83 3 years ago
I suggest you take a semester of Macro-biology and then a semester of Micro-biology. If you are still unsure about evolution at that point, take a semester of Physical Anthropology. You will learn about ancient hominids, predecessors to homo sapiens; - Australopithicus afarensis, Australopithicus gracile, Australopithicus robustus, Homo erectus and Neanderthals etc..
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
All the evidence EVER FOUND linking humans to apes can be placed in a small box.
All that was discovered of Australopithicus afarensis for example was part of a lower jawbone, some skull fragments and part of a thigh bone.
The rest was drawn in. His drawing was influenced by his world view maybe??
We find many INTACT skeletons of apes, humans and other animals from the past.
But when it comes to transition fossils btwn apes/humans ALL YOU CAN GIVE ME IS SOME BONE FRAGMENTS?
bsktball83 3 years ago
You're delusional-
I suggest you take a complete semester course on Physical Anthropology. All the bones and hominid remains (not just bones but crude tools, dwellings and cooking fires, as well) can fill an entire museum and scientists are finding more every year.
you're too dumb to bother with - get an education..
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
"New scientifice evidence"
can you give a link to the supposed new scientific evidence and what it shows??
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
"Once again I must repeat myself. God wrote His laws on the hearts of every man. Romans 2:15"
You can quote this, but I don't see how you can demonstrate this. In the case of some people I've known and some infamous serial killers, I think God was napping and forgot.
These people don't choose to lack the knowledge of right from wrong, they aren't wired for it. Perhaps many of the humans in the world in your view, are not imbued with a soul, but are just animals?
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
In this world there is good and there is evil. Every person has the potential for both.
God gave all humans free will. Its your choice.
Why do you keep implying that I think non-Christians are animals?
You probably think that. Not me.
If anything, I as a Christian am more likely to have compassion for my fellow human beings than YOU
BECAUSE...
I DON'T see humans as animals, or some product of evolution, but as creations of God. Yes, with SOULS.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Your comments remind me of Dr. Pavlov a Christian and a scientist that believed that animals had no souls. He considered dogs to be meat machines.
So without remorse he cut them up with scissors for his experiments. They howled in pain as he cut their faces off.
He knew they had no souls and believed their pain was simply machine reflex.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
Thats pretty creepy because I love animals.
I have my own personal idea about animals and afterlife.
I think that all animals, including my dog will go to heaven. But not as we know them. I think that since God gave them life then when they die, that part of them that was alive reunites with their creator. So I think that Teddy (my dog) will, in a sense, be in heaven.
The bible is silent on this matter, but that doesn't mean it can't be true. This is just my personal opinion.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Good, so you aren't completely intolerant.
You can believe that God isn't limited by the pages of the Bible.
The Bible can be wrong also. We have brains. We can use logic. We can learn to do math. If this is God's image, then God would want us to use these faculties.
You make the point that the laws our in our heart. So does that Bible trump those laws? Or does the heart come first?
And why can't dogs have souls?
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
"Good, so you aren't completely intolerant."
Based on that comment, its fair to say that you have an incredible amount of prejudice and bias.
Wow. I didn't stand a chance did I.
I never said dogs didn't have souls. I don't know if they do or not. Your prejudices and biases led you to ASSUME you knew what I believed about that.
I simply said that HUMANS DO HAVE SOULS. Thats important because it implies that we were created.
Your confusing neurological processes with our spiritual side.
bsktball83 3 years ago
i do not believe that Jeffrey Dahlmer's or John Wayne Gacey's hearts were touched by the laws of God. I beleive that they were wired differently.
If true, this makes them only animals. Implying that god makes animals in human form.
I feel that I have a sense of morals, but I don't believe that a Christian God wrote them on my heart. Therefore from your point of few, I must be an animal. I'm simply wired that way.
And I'm fine with that.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
You are not an animal. Nor are you a product of evolution.
You are unique compare to other animals because you were created in Gods image. He loves you and wants a relationship with you.
God loves those serial killers as much as He loves you and me. He died for them also. But they rejected God just like most people do.
I believe that they eventually became demon possessed and were driven to do what they did by evil.
bsktball83 3 years ago
Then he's not responsible, and maybe he's in heaven?
Where I first began to lose beliefs in a Christian God is in my pain in trying to love a God that created most of us, so he could torture us for all eternity.
Imagine a shepherd that acquires a flock of 100 sheep. He spends his days torturing 80 of them, and grooming and giving loving care to 20 of them. You go out and see him, applying hot irons to his screaming sheep.
What kind of man would do this? Why should we love this kind of God?
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
God is love. The best way you can express love is to give it away.
If God forced all of us to love Him back, we would just be robots. Thats not true love.
Thats why God gave us Free will.
That means you can return that love, or choose not to.
bsktball83 3 years ago
I can't love someone that created man so he could torture billions of human beings for all eternity.
Any God that can decide that he wants to do that, isn't worthy of love in my opinion.
"Love me freely or I'll torture you for all eternity." - God
God gave us free will because he knew that he'd be pleasured by torturing most of us when we don't choose to love him.
God may be love, but he's a sadist too.
Weaseldog2001 3 years ago
yeah very Scary indeedydeed! + with Bush + his Brainwashed Flock coming off 8 Horrific Years it's even Scarier* Peace*
BillyWarhol 3 years ago
Rick warren is a member of the cfr...all 3 of these men are scum.
5 star good analysis.
avoozl07 3 years ago 3
Warren wrote a book in which sold millions. How is your book selling? Maybe you believe all who respect Rick Warren are stupid. That makes you and yours more intelligent, more enlightened. Sorry, I don't think so.
rock9361 3 years ago
My videos are doing fine, thank you.. As is more You Tube channel.
How is your book doing?
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
I just looked at your channel
pathetic:
rock9361
Joined: June 15, 2007
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you stink... bye bye
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
Has Ralphdraw3 every heard of Democrats and black churches, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Martin Luther King Jr. Over 10,000 people attend Saddleback weekly. If it is so easy, why haven't you build a following. As I look at the number of hits on this site at about 250, I'm "really impressed"
rock9361 3 years ago
Have you ever heard of poverty among blacks? and discrimination against blacks?
10,000 people at the church? I'll bet some Moslem Imams get 10,000 people every week too... maybe 10,000 every day....
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
The evangelicals are stupid since Dubya sucked them in to support him. Obama did not do well with the 26% of Americans that call themselves evangelicals during the faith conversation. This was not a debate but rather a conversation about issues that interest evangelicals. Each candidate spent one hour answering Warren's questions. Obama thought he could parse his pro-choice position but it did not wash well with the evangelicals. It's too bad that the US sucked itself into mixing church & state.
paultherolls 3 years ago
John Hagee didn't invent revelations, he just ad-libs it a bit.
beltman713 3 years ago
great vlog Ralph
witzkeyman 3 years ago
You cannot compare Islam with true Christianity, Love you neighbor, gives no place for violence or domination. To suggest more of Love (Christianity)in our politics is the same as more hate and intolerance (Islam)
is very intellectually dishonest. Again only an unthinking politically liberal minded person could suggest that they are one and the same. Our founding fathers quoted scripture more than anything else and when they weren't quoting the bible they were quoting people who were.
shwmusic 3 years ago
shwmusic
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beornborg 3 years ago
hagee is a disgusting, vile hate-filled, crazy, insane creature. I am stunned by the number of sheep that flock to that demon. If hagee grew a trimmed mustache, lost 110 pounds he could pass as hitlers (more) evil twin brother. And his cult should NOT be tax exempt.
NoReligionInSchool 3 years ago
Boring.
theropingeffect 3 years ago
Keep kissing Ron Paul's butt...
btw Ron Paul is a good Christian... he opposes abortion with every fiber of his Texas transplanted body..
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
It is really embarrassing to listen to someone talk about something they know nothing about and are too confused to know what to say about anything having to do with the subject of their own posted video. You can't just say things you hear with no facts or understanding of what you heard or why. There is a proverb in the bible you would do well to apply. "Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps his mouth shut".
shwmusic 3 years ago
Thanks for this Ralphdraw3.
theogore 3 years ago
I would hope that we the sheep of the United States of America will someday see that, while it shows strength of character to have faith in something bigger than ourselves ,[if only to keep us humble] ,we cant vote for a person who would Pander religion for A vote or someone who's pride compels them to tell us he's more religious than another. You'll know a true man with heart and faith by the non judgmental equalizing good he seeks and does for his fellow man, Jesus uplifted the poor.
tttaylor18 3 years ago
Churches should stay out of politics or they should be taxed.
ilnaras 3 years ago
Churches are making so much money these days, I think they should lose their tax-exempt status.. and pay their fair share
You saw how fancy and expensive the Saddleback church is.. all tax free...
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
I agree with you Ralphdraw3, on this point.
I think religion should be kept separate from politics, and if its not, tax em. Also if my tax dollars will go to help faith based charities, tax em. If I wanted to help churches I would give to them other than on tax day.
RationalLiberty 3 years ago
I saw the thing with Larry King about religious cults. As far as i'm concerned they are all cultish. The gov supports that kind of thing, since the gov is a kind of master cult and the other religions are sub cults. It's bad because children are brought up being force fed lies, and they have been conceptually neutered or conceptually fragmented, and do not have an identity outside of their contrived reality. In other words if they want to be somebody they have to repeat the stupid stuff.
hypnofan35 3 years ago 2
It does not really matter what the religion is. It is just that people what to feel good about being dumb shits. They put on their sunday go to meeting costumes, and make a play for status or belonging, and the preacher has professional propaganda tendencies and will try to sell them an "insurance policy" for "Amageddon". Then sadly most people will believe anything to be accepted and saved. This is why we need cyborg terminators. To clean out the lie peddling fatboys and their harlots.
hypnofan35 3 years ago